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Ross K
04-23-2008, 02:49 AM
. why do some ppl prefer them? How does it help your game?

. how head-light do you go in your racket choices?

. negatives of very head-light frames?

. what are some very, very head-light frames ppl really like?

Cheers

R.

Duzza
04-23-2008, 02:52 AM
From my experience, a VERY-head light racquet doesn't give enough plow-through but I can't stand head heavy because I need my arm after I've hit :D

nickb
04-23-2008, 02:59 AM
- Head light frames are designed to feel more maneuverable. Advanced players tend to prefer head light frames. Players who like to spend more time at the net will nearly always pick a head light racket. Baseliners often prefer frames with more weight in the head for extra power.

- My Fischers are pretty headlight....with 18g string more than 9pts I would think....any more headlight and they feel a bit weak at the baseline. Pro doubles players e.g. the Bryan brothers often use very heavy frames (370g +) which are over 12pts headlight strung...these rackets are super fast at net but very very stable and hit a heavy ball.

- Not as much punch at the baseline. Some people may feel they lack power.

- Most players frames are 10-12 pts headlight unstrung...im not sure if there are any rackets with more weight in the handle than that.

Hope that helps...

Nick :)

origmarm
04-23-2008, 03:08 AM
. why do some ppl prefer them? How does it help your game?

. how head-light do you go in your racket choices?

. negatives of very head-light frames?

. what are some very, very head-light frames ppl really like?

Cheers

R.

Hi there Ross:

- I go anywhere from 4-12pts headlight depending on the racquet. If I go above about 6-8 then it needs to be over 12oz for sure

- The negatives are a lack of stability in the lighter (sub 12oz) frames for anything over about 6pts headlight (it really starts there but is manageable for a bit more). They also lack plow through as the majority of the weight is not directly behind the strick zone.

- PSC6.1 was a good headlight frame as it was heavyish and stiff. The T-Fight 325s are also reckoned to be good (I sort of liked it, but only a brief demo). Obviously the PS6.0 has to be included here.

That's what comes to mind. Obviously people's preference with the first two questions is a biggie.

Cheers

galain
04-23-2008, 03:53 AM
I can play with both headlight and head heavy frames equally well but not on the same day! All things considered, I prefer a head light frame because I like to come to the net and the extra manoueverability is very valuable. I have a big swing anyway, so the reduced mass isn't something I really notice off the ground.

Ross - if you like the Head range - and I think you do - find yourself a Pyramid Tour. At it's release it was the flagship model for the company - above the Prestige and Pro Tour frames - and it is the most headlight racquet I've ever used. It has the plush qualities of the Pro Tour but is a lot more swing friendly. Serving with this is remarkable - you can dial your placement in anywhere. I used one for about 6 months and never lost and I think I lost serve once or twice in that entire time (playing at an 'A' level). The lack of weight in the head allows you to crazy stupid things at net and on serve. Worth a look for sure I think if you like the feel of Head frames.

Ross K
04-23-2008, 05:28 AM
Duzza - interesting point.

Nick - wow! So the Bryan Bros. frames weigh 370g plus!? And what with them being 12 pts h/light.... well, I think I'd like a go on something like that!

origmarm - I totally agree about the PSC being a v/good h/light rod - as I think you know, it was (albeit briefly) my no 1 racket for a bit.

Galain - many thanks for that tip on the Pyramid Tour. And although I've moved on from the Head range, I'll definitely make a note of that... and especially as you say 'I used one for about 6 months and never lost'! (Hey, I'm liking the sound of that particular sentence!)

BTW everyone, it was the HPS 6.1 Eu 18x20 that really got me wondering and thinking about this. I played with it a few times, and although I found it somewhat, er, 'interesting', or even 'eccentric' and not quite my cup of tea (hard to find good depth on groundies, power on serve, and oh... there's the not wholly irrelevant matter of my arm feeling shredded to s*** for a whole week afterwards!), in terms of maneuverability and being quick on to the ball, this frame - (with its 332 SW, weight of 12.04, and balance of 10 pts h/light) - made me play very differently indeed than other rods I've experienced before (it certainly helped get my backside from off that baseline!:)), and to good (ie, winning) effect. Anyway, with my game in need of developing then, and with there being persistent reservations re playing with frames that are a bit too heavy/slow for me, I've decided to stop kidding myself that I'm Andre Agassi or whoever (LMFAO!), and cut down (a tad anyway) on weight with future frames... Whatever; I think I'm going to start paying a bit more attention to how h/light frames are.

BTW2, I'd still be interested to hear more names for good, very head light frames.

Lee James
04-23-2008, 05:28 AM
I prefer a headlight frame for the extra whip it allows me to get on my forehand. Especially short approach shots that I really need to rip into. As long as the frame is north of 12 oz., you really won't have a lot of stability issues. There can be a drop off in power, but with that extra bit of racquet head speed you can generate, you kinda negate that issue. One thing is for sure though, I hate head heavy, and even balanced racquets.

origmarm
04-23-2008, 05:51 AM
[B]origmarm - I totally agree about the PSC being a v/good h/light rod - as I think you know, it was (albeit briefly) my no 1 racket for a bit.

Yes actually I remember that now that you mention it. Was mine for a long time also.

One thing I know for sure is that I will never play with a head heavy racquet and possibly not even an even balanced one. They are just so different in terms of the style of tennis that feels comfortable. On clay though I have played with a near even balance before, I think it suits that style of game more imo, at least I feel more comfortable going more head heavy on clay.

nickb
04-23-2008, 06:12 AM
Duzza - interesting point.

Nick - wow! So the Bryan Bros. frames weigh 370g plus!? And what with them being 12 pts h/light.... well, I think I'd like a go on something like that!

origmarm - I totally agree about the PSC being a v/good h/light rod - as I think you know, it was (albeit briefly) my no 1 racket for a bit.

Galain - many thanks for that tip on the Pyramid Tour. And although I've moved on from the Head range, I'll definitely make a note of that... and especially as you say 'I used one for about 6 months and never lost'! (Hey, I'm liking the sound of that particular sentence!)

BTW everyone, it was the HPS 6.1 Eu 18x20 that really got me wondering and thinking about this. I played with it a few times, and although I found it somewhat, er, 'interesting', or even 'eccentric' and not quite my cup of tea (hard to find good depth on groundies, power on serve, and oh... there's the not wholly irrelevant matter of my arm feeling shredded to s*** for a whole week afterwards!), in terms of maneuverability and being quick on to the ball, this frame - (with its 332 SW, weight of 12.04, and balance of 10 pts h/light) - made me play very differently indeed than other rods I've experienced before (it certainly helped get my backside from off that baseline!:)), and to good (ie, winning) effect. Anyway, with my game in need of developing then, and with there being persistent reservations re playing with frames that are a bit too heavy/slow for me, I've decided to stop kidding myself that I'm Andre Agassi or whoever (LMFAO!), and cut down (a tad anyway) on weight with future frames... Whatever; I think I'm going to start paying a bit more attention to how h/light frames are.

BTW2, I'd still be interested to hear more names for good, very head light frames.

Both Mike and Bob were at 354 unstrung before switching over to Prince. Since then they have added more weight because the Speedports allow them to swing even faster. Add 15-20 grams for strings and those are 2 heavy sticks!....one uses gripsize 4 and the other grip 5. Balance is around 29-30" for both.

Nick

markwillplay
04-23-2008, 06:16 AM
I like headlight frames but I have recently noticed that there are some pros and cons. Usually a headlight frame(say at least 8 pts) feels lighter to swing even if it is a fairly hefty stick. thie is actually a feeling you get used to. I serve and volley and it is nice to be able to move my stick around quickly...but..I have recently been playing against people who hit much harder and have come to really appreciate heft for stability. I played with a stick that felt a bit heavier but it was actually not. It was about 7 pts headlight as apposed to 10 pts headlight and at the same weight as my stick. I noticed that this was more stable against pace at net. I also noticed I had to prepare a bit earlier and I think that actually helped my game. bottom line for me is that the more headlight a frame is, the heavier overall weight it needs to be.

Another issue is frame weight distribution. You can have two sticks that are 8 pts headlight but still feel different. I noticed this with the Donnay MP which with leather was 8 pts headlight but still felt like there was some heft in the hoop. Other sticks I have had felt like there was more heft in the throat and they swing differently. the Donnay hoop almost pulls your stick through like a head heavy stick but it is not. I actually think this is a pretty good feeling for serving once youget used to it, and I know it feels good with volleys.

I have read hear that swingweights that are identicle can feel very diffeerent and I absolutely believe that is try bor banances as well.

garfonkee
04-23-2008, 06:17 AM
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but, suppose you have two identical racquets, and you add a ton of lead in the handle of one of the racquets.

Will it make that racquet lose power because it got a lot more headlight? And will it actually be easier to move the racquet around at the net?

Ross K
04-23-2008, 06:18 AM
Nick,

What's your fave static weight for your No 1's (or indeed just on any frames)?

Pro_Tour_630
04-23-2008, 06:21 AM
I have an unusual heavily modified PT630 that is 400 grams and 29cm balance where most of the weight (50grams) is above the handle , it is super HL and super STABLE with a bulldozer like plow through, the CAPS helped, but when I tried this modification on the PT280 and it was a bit less stable with a bit less plow through than my modded PT630

Ross K
04-23-2008, 06:24 AM
I have an unusual heavily modified PT630 that is 400 grams and 29cm balance where most of the weight (50grams) is above the handle , it is super HL and super STABLE with a bulldozer like plow through, the CAPS helped, but when I tried this modification on the PT280 and it was a bit less stable with a bit less plow through than my modded PT630

I'm liking the sound of this!!! :)

nickb
04-23-2008, 06:43 AM
Nick,

What's your fave static weight for your No 1's (or indeed just on any frames)?

I've gone back to using the No 1's sock with a very thin 18L string to lower the SW even more. I use tape to build up the grips just how I like them and use Karakal PU Super grips...thats it!

I think my ideal weight is 335-340g strung....with lead on them I cant swing fast resulting in less spin and hitting late. When im tired it just makes life HELL! Also coaching with a 360g+ frame is not much fun :)

Going out to hit with my coach now...will try and take some video of us playing so look out for that later on lol!

Nick

origmarm
04-23-2008, 06:45 AM
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but, suppose you have two identical racquets, and you add a ton of lead in the handle of one of the racquets.

Will it make that racquet lose power because it got a lot more headlight? And will it actually be easier to move the racquet around at the net?

I added a ton of weight (about 35g) in the handle of an LM Radical once for jokes. It definitely swung very free and was very easy to move at net but I felt it took some power and plough away yes. I think the Radical from memory stock is about 4pts headlight. It must have been 14 or similar by the time I got done with it :)

Bengt
04-23-2008, 06:55 AM
I tried the HPS 6.1 Eu 18x20 but found it was too heavy on the serve. I read that it was 12.8 oz and sw of around 340, but I may be wrong. Anyway, it was just too hard to serve with, but I did find plenty of plow-through despite the very head-light balance. Right now, I am about to try the Avery M3 Control. It's just over 12 oz but with a sw of around 320. It's 12 pts head-light. The Tom Avery website tells you his philosophy behind heavy static weight and headlight balance.

larry10s
04-23-2008, 07:25 AM
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread but, suppose you have two identical racquets, and you add a ton of lead in the handle of one of the racquets.

Will it make that racquet lose power because it got a lot more headlight? And will it actually be easier to move the racquet around at the net?

it will definitely be easier to move around the net.i dont think you lose power because you add weight. you do lose alittle stability on heavy balls due to relatively less weight at the hoop.

Ross K
04-23-2008, 12:22 PM
I tried the HPS 6.1 Eu 18x20 but found it was too heavy on the serve. I read that it was 12.8 oz and sw of around 340, but I may be wrong. Anyway, it was just too hard to serve with, but I did find plenty of plow-through despite the very head-light balance. Right now, I am about to try the Avery M3 Control. It's just over 12 oz but with a sw of around 320. It's 12 pts head-light. The Tom Avery website tells you his philosophy behind heavy static weight and headlight balance.

Those are stats that sound pretty appealing to me...

BreakPoint
04-23-2008, 01:01 PM
The PS 6.0 95 is a VERY headlight frame.

baek57
04-23-2008, 01:57 PM
i like mine around 9-10 HL

FaultsNAces
04-23-2008, 09:49 PM
10pts or so head light is pretty essential to a 1hbh; it really helps the head snap around.

And the faster you swing on fh, the more you will find a head light balance to be essential.