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View Full Version : *** Summary on the new Black Ace 93 ***


anirut
04-26-2008, 12:20 PM
After having initially tested the Black on Wednesday and posted my initial views in the Redondo thread, here's what I would summarize.

Now that the tension on the Black has dropped at bit and as I wanted a second opinion, my cousin has tried it too. We have discussed on how to compare the Black to the Redondo, and here's what we think would be best to describe ...

An easy way to compare the Black & the Redondo is like listening to Eric Clapton playing "Layla". The Black's like the orignal electric version while the Redondo's like the acoustic version from "Unplugged".

Both versions are fun to listen to, but each have it's own character.

If the Redondo is a fine wine, the Black is a fine Bourbon. For me, it's a difficult choice, as I enjoy wine as well as Bourbon, depending on my mood at the moment.

The Black's got more modern & lively feel to it. Certainly stiffer (61-62?). Crisper. More pop. Very solid & punchy at volleys. I'm not a good server so I wouldn't want to say anything about this. Both are good in their own right, equally comfortable and precise.

Would I recommend that anyone "switch" from the Redondo to the Black?

I'd say no. But I'd suggest that the Black 93 is a "must have" racket. Slap leather on the Black and string it at about 6-8% lower than the Redondo and no stroke adjustments would be required.

So, to sum up, the Black is very nice and suitable for all-court agressive play and will certainly come in handy on certain days ...

... like the days when you'd rather enjoy a nice Bourbon instead of wine ...

Cheers!

(... and here I sip a glass of Jim Beam Black ... hehe ... :mrgreen: )

treblings
04-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the summary. Since i am a newly converted redon/dian/dito/didi....., the black sounds like the kind of racket i would like to try myself. Two problems. First, the usual with PK- supply. Second, I am not into alcohol. Could you maybe compare it to fine cheese:)

anirut
04-26-2008, 01:58 PM
^
^
Since I don't know anything about cheese ... I'll put it this way instead ...

Say the Redondo's a Ferrari, the Black is the same Ferrari but in cabriolet mode.

thejuice
04-27-2008, 12:14 AM
Hey Anirut, I'd like to give the Black Ace a try. I wish a US retailer would carry it. :(

Drona
04-27-2008, 05:46 AM
Hey Anirut, I'd like to give the Black Ace a try. I wish a US retailer would carry it. :(

I would second this suggestion. I just like the name. Is there a picture? Is it all black?

Nitro
04-27-2008, 05:55 AM
Pics would be nice.

anirut
04-27-2008, 09:17 AM
^
^

Here ...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/anirut/Rackets/NewBlackAceH93-98.jpg

I just hate the font used for the model names ... otherwise the graphics is fine :(

Rabbit
04-27-2008, 09:42 AM
PK has reintroduced the Black Ace? I wonder if they'll bring back my personal PK fav, the Silver Ace...

Could a comeback be in the offings?

anirut
04-27-2008, 09:45 AM
Rabbit,

I think they've brought the flexier Silver Ace back a few years ago ... under the name of "Redondo". ;)

mdjenders
04-27-2008, 12:50 PM
pro kennex sure has the ugly graphics down pat, but if it plays like the classic black ace, that is exciting!

thejuice
04-27-2008, 12:53 PM
I disagree. I think they just messed this frame up. It would be sexy if it we black but with the same font and matte finish as the Redondo.

Rabbit
04-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Rabbit,

I think they've brought the flexier Silver Ace back a few years ago ... under the name of "Redondo". ;)


Really? The specs do look like something I'd like except for the 18X20 part. :(

I do remember playing with the Silver Ace and loving it until I could afford a couple of ProStaffs in 86-ish?

tennisdad65
04-27-2008, 02:50 PM
any chance they will make a new copper ace? :)

m1stuhxsp4rk5
04-27-2008, 04:17 PM
the redondo looks better imo

rabidcow
04-27-2008, 04:24 PM
normally I like PK pj's however i hate this one although if it every comes to the US it will be a must demo

Drona
04-27-2008, 04:58 PM
Thanks for the pics. The only fault I have is the yellow across the throat assuming that's not a sticker or photoshop. Otherwise I like the muted graphics.
I suppose it's a mute point though unless TW can broker a deal to sell some of these stateside?

anirut
04-27-2008, 06:59 PM
mdjenders,

I think due to the 18x20 pattern, the new Black doens't have that original Black feel. It's solid, yes. Precise, yes. The feel is inclined towards the MG Prestige (but much cheaper). I haven't hit with the KBT so I can't compare to that.

Juice,

Yes, I agree that the PJ'd been better if it had that Redondo-style designs with the racket in black.

Rabbit,

Silver Ace & Redondo ... Yep, if not for the 18x20 and the tad-high 56 flex, in comparison to the original Silver's lower flex of the days ...

Drona,

The picture is no photoshop. The sticks look just ugly like that.

The clear coat on the racket is an easy target to scratches. I've framed a couple of shots at the shoulder and the marks on the coat was clearly shouting, "You're a bad hitter!".

And, if TW could broker some to the States?

Let's see if that would be easy.

If without the help of Xube, I wouldn't be able to get the 93. The 98 is readily available in Singapore & Thailand, but NOT A SINGLE BA93 is available in the ASEAN region. Xube somehow "pestered" PK in Taiwan to get the 93 out of their factory just for me. So my racket is probably the first, the one and only Black Ace 93 in the region.

TW can probably work things out easier ...

pow
04-27-2008, 08:37 PM
String 6-8% looser? How come? Isn't the Black Ace more powerful due to stiffness?

Are the headsize / shape identical to the Redondo Mid?

Thanks.

anirut
04-27-2008, 08:55 PM
^
^
Yes, the Black & the Redondo are off the same mold. (I'd say the Heritage mold.)

As for the tension, it was pretty boardy with the Black at the same tension as the Redondo. The balls were also jumping off too quickly. So a lower tension should allow better "ball-holding" by the strings.

I mean if you like to play "brushing" strokes then at about the same tension would be fine. I prefer to drive through the balls, so, for me, a lower tension feels better.

treblings
04-27-2008, 10:55 PM
Anirut,
Thanks for the ferrari comparison:) My chances of driving one are probably better than playing the new Black Ace in the foreseeable future.
I like your comparison of the redondo with the silver ace. Wasnīt that the racket,Robert Seguso played in the 80īs? Anyway, i bought a used one minutes ago from the auction site. Will let all of you know, whether it plays like a ferrari too, or maybe more like my old battered renault

tennisdad65
04-30-2008, 07:21 AM
Rabbit,
Silver Ace & Redondo ... Yep, if not for the 18x20 and the tad-high 56 flex, in comparison to the original Silver's lower flex of the days ...

Thanks for the info on the silver/black/redondo..

Your saying that the original silver ace (86 sq in blue/black/silver frame) flex is less than 56?
I read that the flex of the original black ace is 56.

anirut
04-30-2008, 11:41 AM
^^
Just "wild" guesses and comparisons ... if you know what I mean. ;)

Safin777
05-03-2008, 06:56 AM
Anirut along the 93 version did you played with the 98 one? If so are there any specs differences regarding head's shape and weight compared to the Redondo or in this department they're the same? Thanks

anirut
05-03-2008, 08:26 AM
^
^
Sorry, I've never played the BA98.

However, there were guys who have tested the 98 and it seemed the BA98 felt like the Redondo 93. This was discussed in the Redondo thread of tfntennis.com -- a Singapore tennis webboard (of which I'm also a member).

Safin777
05-03-2008, 01:37 PM
^
^
Sorry, I've never played the BA98.

However, there were guys who have tested the 98 and it seemed the BA98 felt like the Redondo 93. This was discussed in the Redondo thread of tfntennis.com -- a Singapore tennis webboard (of which I'm also a member).

Thanks the same. Since you're a PK expert it would be possible to use Head Pallets (TK 82) for replacing the ones on a Redondo? I like the frame but don't like the rubber buttcap indeed

anirut
05-03-2008, 06:05 PM
^^
You can use most any buttcap provided it's the same grip size and similar grip shape. I have an Estusa buttcap for my Redondo. Not that I have anything against the PK's own silicone cap, but because I changed the pallet down one size but I ain't got the right buttcap. So I removed the buttcap off one of my battered (and cheap model) Estusa and shoved it to the Redondo. It worked.

BTW, please don't call me PK expert. I've just started fiddlin' around with racket hardware ... ;)

pmerk34
05-03-2008, 06:30 PM
So how is a new black Ace coming out?

anirut
05-03-2008, 06:39 PM
PK will probably be active in the US again, I hope. No problem here in Asia.

pow
05-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the responses, I was wondering if you (or anyone) have the specs to this racquet? It looks interesting.

NLBwell
05-03-2008, 09:44 PM
Sounds like it would be a good replacement for my original Black Aces except for the 18 main string pattern. You would think that since the Redondo is 18 mains, they would make the BA 16.

anirut
05-03-2008, 10:26 PM
pow,

The specs are "just like" the Redondo, except for the stiffness -- which I guess to be around 60-62.

NLB,

The new BA plays (feel?) closer to the MG Prestige, pretty springy.

IMO, the Redondo feels closer to the original Black, but much easier to play with. The 18 mains ain't that difficult to create good spin and the Redondo is so soft that the dense pattern feels "just right" firm, not boardy (with proper stringing, of course).

pow
05-03-2008, 11:17 PM
pow,

The specs are "just like" the Redondo, except for the stiffness -- which I guess to be around 60-62.

NLB,

The new BA plays (feel?) closer to the MG Prestige, pretty springy.

IMO, the Redondo feels closer to the original Black, but much easier to play with. The 18 mains ain't that difficult to create good spin and the Redondo is so soft that the dense pattern feels "just right" firm, not boardy (with proper stringing, of course).

Wow, a Redondo with more juice... I don't know if that's what I'm looking for in a frame but sounds like an intriguing combination. Only thing holding me back from getting one is availability, the yellow on the cosmetic, and no stock leather grip (although this one can be remedied).

How is the feel affected, prefer it over the Redondo? Generally I've gravitated towards preferring flexier racquets but some mid flex 60's racquets have been good.

anirut
05-04-2008, 12:32 AM
Yeah, pow

the Black's got more juice. Just what I said above, the new Black feels closer to the MG Prestige, but lighter. Inspite of the tad higher stiffness, it's still very comfy.

It volleys more solid than the Redondo though. Very crisp.

I have yet to experiment more with it, like playing it "syn grip" only; leather only; 16g string (to reduce the popiness); etc.

Give me sometime to test ... and to find more money to pay for the experiments. ;)

Safin777
05-08-2008, 11:15 AM
On PK's italian site I've seen the BA98 listed at 330 gr unstrung 19 mm costant profile. So if the specs are right it shoud heavier than the Redondo since TW listed it at 320 gr 20 mm profile and also considering that the BA98 comes with a leather grip and the Redondo with a leather one. Isn't it?

LafayetteHitter
05-08-2008, 11:34 AM
The cosmetics immediately made me think the guy who did the designs for Cayman was hired for this project

f1 tech
05-08-2008, 12:36 PM
The yellow "precision" really stands out. Should have done it in silver.

anirut
05-08-2008, 06:40 PM
On PK's italian site I've seen the BA98 listed at 330 gr unstrung 19 mm costant profile. So if the specs are right it shoud heavier than the Redondo since TW listed it at 320 gr 20 mm profile and also considering that the BA98 comes with a leather grip and the Redondo with a leather one. Isn't it?

Yes, infact the Black is heavier. But it comes with synthetic grip -- no leather.

I've weighted both the Redondo and the new Black, both 4 3/8, no strings, no grip -- just bare pallets and buttcap -- and both had the same balance point. (Which I don't remember.)

The Black was 310 grams and the Redondo was 304 grams.

The pallets and buttcaps of both rackets weighted the same. (Yes, I've removed them all to get them weighted.)

A rough average for synthetic grip: 14 grams
A rough average for leather grip: 23 grams
A rough average for synthetic gut: 14 grams

The weight of a strung Black / Redondo would thus be:
- with synthetic grip: 338 / 332
- with leather grip: 347 / 341

BTW, both rackets came off the SAME mold. Thus the beam is 19 mm. And I have measured this too.

Safin777
05-09-2008, 10:31 AM
Thanks a lot! PK makes some of the best frames on the market but lack in making them available only in some areas. Just for example in Italy we had the 5g in two other colours than those available at TW

Anton
05-20-2008, 07:20 PM
Maan oh man - am I really going to have to make my GF drag this new Black Ace for me all the way from Italy?

anirut
05-20-2008, 07:23 PM
Maan oh man - am I really going to have to make my GF drag this new Black Ace for me all the way from Italy?

Or have Xube mail it to you ... haha.

jasonchu
07-05-2008, 03:57 PM
Yeah, pow

the Black's got more juice. Just what I said above, the new Black feels closer to the MG Prestige, but lighter. Inspite of the tad higher stiffness, it's still very comfy.

It volleys more solid than the Redondo though. Very crisp.

I have yet to experiment more with it, like playing it "syn grip" only; leather only; 16g string (to reduce the popiness); etc.

Give me sometime to test ... and to find more money to pay for the experiments. ;)

Anirut... I saw your weights that showed the Black Ace 93 was heavier than the redondo, but ... if it feels closer to the MG Prestige (which is just 0.1 ounces heavier than the Redondo) I am a little confused.... my mg head prestige mid is just 1 gram heavier than my redondo mid. the redondo swings heavier due to its 4 pt head light balance vs. the head prestige which has a 9 pt head light balance on my racquet withthe overgrip in place.

Please let me know AsAP. talking to the Kennex rep this week to see if I should change out from the Redondo to the Black Ace.

J

jasonchu
07-05-2008, 04:13 PM
Yes, infact the Black is heavier. But it comes with synthetic grip -- no leather.

I've weighted both the Redondo and the new Black, both 4 3/8, no strings, no grip -- just bare pallets and buttcap -- and both had the same balance point. (Which I don't remember.)

The Black was 310 grams and the Redondo was 304 grams.

The pallets and buttcaps of both rackets weighted the same. (Yes, I've removed them all to get them weighted.)

A rough average for synthetic grip: 14 grams
A rough average for leather grip: 23 grams
A rough average for synthetic gut: 14 grams

The weight of a strung Black / Redondo would thus be:
- with synthetic grip: 338 / 332
- with leather grip: 347 / 341

BTW, both rackets came off the SAME mold. Thus the beam is 19 mm. And I have measured this too.

anirut, would appreciate an email so we can take this offline. just got email from the us dist head for pk. he states the Black ace vs. redondo ....
"The Black ace's flex is the same--lighter overall with a more even balance than the redondo C93."

seems to contradict your empiracle evidence.

Thanks man.

Jason (email: bc154@scn.org)

Anton
07-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Anirut... I saw your weights that showed the Black Ace 93 was heavier than the redondo, but ... if it feels closer to the MG Prestige (which is lighter than the Redondo) I am a little confused....

Please let me know AsAP. talking to the Kennex rep this week to see if I should change out from the Redondo to the Black Ace.

J

MG prestige mid is not lighter

Il Mostro
07-05-2008, 06:58 PM
Nice summary. I miss LOS. Please go to Beer Garden and have a few for me :-)

jasonchu
07-06-2008, 05:15 PM
So how is a new black Ace coming out?

ProKennex was never in trouble in the US. IT's distributor however folded 2 years ago. PK staffed up a new distributor run by the Gilbert family, and they are back in the market now .....

jasonchu
07-06-2008, 05:19 PM
^
^
Since I don't know anything about cheese ... I'll put it this way instead ...

Say the Redondo's a Ferrari, the Black is the same Ferrari but in cabriolet mode.

Anirut, thanks for your email's. As for starting up a foundation. Your local tax rules are different but we are a non profit... as such we get special consideration from the govt.
we also get grants from the city of San francisco and the USTA. Finally most of our money comes from private donors who love tennis and support children's programs.
we have never charged a dime to the kids in 5 years for free lessons year round.
we provide all tennis racquets and balls. Start by putting up signs asking for volunteer coaches and junior equipment at your local tennis courts/club. ask for permission to hold tennis lessons for free for 2 hours once a week from the tennis court administrator... and just start!

As for the ferrari analogy... you have to help me out here... I never even sat in one so what is the cabriolet mode mean?

anirut
07-06-2008, 06:23 PM
Hi Jason.

Thanks for the tips on starting something for the lesser-priviledge kids. I've already talked this idea to a couple of people and they're with me. I hope this will be useful to the society in the long run.

... As for the ferrari analogy... you have to help me out here... I never even sat in one so what is the cabriolet mode mean?

Neither have I sat in one ...

OK, if you've driven a car with the roof down, you'd know it's real fun to drive a cabriolet on a nice sunny day with the wind hitting your face, that you could feel the raw speed.

Safin777
08-04-2008, 06:30 AM
Since it's the same mold of the redondo is the 93 and 98 versions 89,5 and 95 sq/inches right?

anirut
08-04-2008, 09:16 AM
Since it's the same mold of the redondo is the 93 and 98 versions 89,5 and 95 sq/inches right?

I've no idea of the exact numbers, but, yes, they're the same size as the Redondo. It seems the 98 head size is closer to a real 98, a tad bigger than a Wilson 95 head.