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yip kok kuin
01-10-2005, 03:25 PM
can someone tell me if the Knessisl White Star and the Adidas GTX Pro are essentially the same racket (eg identical) or are there differences between them. someone who have both the puma and estusa once told me that they don't play the same way. puma have the old world feel while estusa feel more modern.

AndrewD
01-10-2005, 04:01 PM
I dont know about the difference in the Kneisel range but I have used both the Puma and Estusa frames.

The original Puma (silver that Becker used when he first won Wimbledon) was more flexible, not as manoeuvrable at net and with a bit less power than the one that came after it (Blue and Red).

The differences I found between that racquet and the one Estusa made came down to the absence, in the Estusa, of the moveable handle which I always found made the the racquet seem slightly 'shakey' . I felt the Puma had but the Estusa had greater touch and feel which could be due to the handle being firmly connected to the frame.

I think the different handle system and the subtle difference in 'feel' it created was the reason Becker continued to use his originals.

dennis1188
01-10-2005, 09:09 PM
I owned several, of these rackets and played w/ them for about 8yrs.
IMO they r from the same mold. Seems adidas(made in france) got the rights from knessisl (made in austria) and was made from a similar mold. However, I noted both my knessisl's seemed lighter than the adidas rackets (same size grip). The adidas rackets over a few years 'held up better' than the knessisl rackets, The knessisl's developed 'hairline cracks in the lower hoop near the intersect w/ the throat.
One of the knessisls broke in the mentioned lower hoop area. These rackets were my favorites of all the early graphite rackets (except of the above items these r the same rackets). I always strung these rackets w/ natural gut (great power, touch and sounds from the gut on impact,). My first graphite rackets after playing w/ wood rackets. I also later bought two estusa PBPs, but the PBPs do not play similar to the earlier discussed rackets.

alfa164164
01-11-2005, 06:59 AM
I seem to remember that it was a requirement of Lendl's contract with Adidas that they buy the mold from Kneissl.

NoBadMojo
01-11-2005, 07:15 AM
would be logical that adidas and kneissl just worked out a deal where kneissl continued to make the frame, and sold them to adidas with adidas cosmetics. they could also easily have changed the layup for the adidas frames. adidas really never was in the racquet business as far as actually making them that i know of, and kneissl had the equipment and knowhow. but who knows.

Steve Huff
01-11-2005, 08:02 AM
Per their licensing agreement, Kneissl could not sell that racket in the US. So, they made the Adidas model for him, which was the White Star Pro painted grey/silver instead of white. Nice frame.

Colpo
01-11-2005, 08:38 AM
Steve, I actually recall things a little differently. The Kneissl Lendl Pro could be bought in the States beg. in 1982. The adidas GTX Pro was sold here in limited batches starting in '84.

I recall the scuttlebutt that Kneissl made the GTX Pro for adidas, but I question this now. The GTX and the GTX-T (later) were both made in France - Kneissl is an Austrian company that makes (and made) all of their goods in Austria (skis, too). Perhaps they contracted out the GTX manufacture, but why do that?

Long story short, tough to know now. Probably the same frame but with subtle differences that fell within industry tolerances. Reasonably stiff and heavy, well-suited to Lendl (and many other pros and juniors of the time using it as their first all-synthetic frame - Boris Becker played his late juniors and early pro career with a GTX Pro!).

big ted
01-11-2005, 05:09 PM
the adidas racquet is made of all graphite while the kneissl racquet is made of graphite and kevlar

Coria
01-11-2005, 06:12 PM
NBMJ--we need to have a party for you when you get to your 2000th post--it may come before your 1 year anniversary. That's six posts per day about--incredible--and I thought I was a tennis junkie :)

thor's hammer
09-17-2011, 01:57 PM
Speak of the Devil...

http://youtu.be/yaS8we7KaQo

Don't Let It Bounce
09-18-2011, 01:46 AM
I too remember hearing/reading that Adidas had bought the mold from Kneissl, and I remember the Kneissl frame, and its subsequent versions/paintjobs, being available in the U.S.

I also remember reading on these boards that the Adidas model was foam-filled, while the Kneissls were hollow.