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View Full Version : PS85 vs. K90. argh!


onehandbh
04-27-2008, 12:39 PM
Been using the K90 for the last 6+ months. Was using the
PS85 and looking for something with a little bigger
sweetspot and more power. After not using the PS85 for
a long time, I tried it again a couple weeks ago. Had been
playing very sparingly for a couple months and was *REALLY*
sucky a couple weeks ago. So I decided to use the PS85.
Instant improvement. Used it once more and then yesterday.
The conclusion I'm beginning to arrive at is this:
I play better with the PS85. Not for every shot, but overall
it's better.

FH: K90 for angles. PS85 for depth and control.
BH: PS85 hands down.
volleys: K90 b/c it has a bigger sweetspot and also for
reaction volleys. Touch goes to the PS85 and control goes
to the PS85.
Overheads. about a tie.
1st serve: PS85.
2nd serve: K90
dropshots: PS85.
half-volley: about the same.

But man I just hit my groundstrokes better w/the PS85.
Not sure why. Don't shank more often either.
The sucky thing is that I've sold most of my PS85's and
am down to just a few + 1 st. vincent and it doesn't appear
I can purchase any more at a reasonable price.

Nitro
04-27-2008, 12:58 PM
What string have you been using with the k90? I'm thinking that maybe if you went with a stiffer string in the k90 you might have some of the control you had with the ps85. Just a thought. You could also just try and buy up as many ps85's as possible.

AlpineCadet
04-27-2008, 12:58 PM
The only option is to wait for the new Sampras frame! :)

Zhou
04-27-2008, 01:18 PM
If it ever comes out... But another thing is the new frame still might be different for the better or worse compared to the PS85.

AlpineCadet
04-27-2008, 01:24 PM
Like I said earlier..

m1stuhxsp4rk5
04-27-2008, 01:46 PM
hopefully it will come out by this years us open. maybe since the head size is smaller you focus more so you dont shank as much with the ps85

BreakPoint
04-27-2008, 04:35 PM
I had the same revelation recently. I pulled out my PS 6.0 95 which I haven't used in a very long time. Well, I played better with it than any other racquet that I own. Why did I ever stop using it? :confused: It was better for just about everything and just so much easier to use for both offense and defense. They really need to bring this stick back. I guess it was a mistake selling 9 of my 10 PS 6.0 95's as I only have one left. :(

HeadPrestige
04-27-2008, 05:08 PM
so BP are you going back to the 6.0?

BreakPoint
04-27-2008, 05:19 PM
so BP are you going back to the 6.0?
Probably not as I only have one and I don't want to have to shell out any more money right now scrounging around for any more. I think I will just wait for the Sampras racquet and see how that goes.

80'stennis
04-27-2008, 05:21 PM
If it ever comes out... But another thing is the new frame still might be different for the better or worse compared to the PS85.

Yes, I agree. This is a sensible comment on the "Sampras" stick.

Last I checked it's still in the RUMOUR stage. Until the stick becomes a known fact, we're just waiting on an assumption. Assumptions aren't things to hang your hat on.

80'stennis
04-27-2008, 05:32 PM
RE: the original post, I too played the K90 for about 4 months having come from the PS85. Started playing the 85 again, and much prefer it overall to the K90. I just play better with it despite the smaller head. It just swings nicer. Less spin and power, but sooo much more control and feel. JMO, and the K90 is still a nice stick.

RoddickistheMan
04-27-2008, 06:23 PM
im in the same dilemna. I went back to my 6.0 85 after my prue drive and went back to my straight arm forehand. My explosiveness is back. However I tried the k90 and the thing is like a log the sw is way too high and it feels chunky. I have been messing around with the microgel prestige mid and it has the same maneuverability as a 6.0 however the feel is a lil muted similar to the ncodes but a lil bit better. I higly recommend that you try it out. Also keep in mind the new sampras stick is coming out this soon and that will sure to be a hit with us 6.0 85 users.

tennisee
04-27-2008, 06:25 PM
Probably not as I only have one and I don't want to have to shell out any more money right now scrounging around for any more. I think I will just wait for the Sampras racquet and see how that goes.

Hey BP I'll swap you my 6.0 95 for a K90 or something - (Hit with it last week for fun, doesn't suit my game as much my regular stick)

BreakPoint
04-27-2008, 06:28 PM
Hey BP I'll swap you my 6.0 95 for a K90 or something - (Hit with it last week for fun, doesn't suit my game as much my regular stick)
Thanks for the offer but right now I'm just going to wait for the new Sampras stick.

leonidas1982
04-27-2008, 09:15 PM
I wonder how the new stick will play; hopefully it has a good amount of swingweight to it.

m1stuhxsp4rk5
04-27-2008, 09:34 PM
just the thought of sampras racket is awesome makes the k90 sound lame haha they should call its pro staff 90 type s

stormholloway
04-27-2008, 09:43 PM
Yes, I agree. This is a sensible comment on the "Sampras" stick.

Last I checked it's still in the RUMOUR stage. Until the stick becomes a known fact, we're just waiting on an assumption. Assumptions aren't things to hang your hat on.

Well you're not under the impression that Wilson won't replace the K90 are you? They're obviously coming out with something new, and it appears that Sampras is helping them with it. The only question that remains is what 'technology' will be associated with it and what annoying paint job will be sprayed on.

AlpineCadet
04-27-2008, 10:17 PM
Yes, I agree. This is a sensible comment on the "Sampras" stick.

Last I checked it's still in the RUMOUR stage. Until the stick becomes a known fact, we're just waiting on an assumption. Assumptions aren't things to hang your hat on.

Are you assuming that it's an assumption?

Well you're not under the impression that Wilson won't replace the K90 are you? They're obviously coming out with something new, and it appears that Sampras is helping them with it. The only question that remains is what 'technology' will be associated with it and what annoying paint job will be sprayed on.

Well done. http://www.amny.com/sports/am-tennis0312,0,4895406.story

80'stennis
04-27-2008, 10:48 PM
^^^
Exactly. ALL of what's said before fact is known is speculation. That's what these kinds of threads specialize in. To admit that speculation is speculation or assumption or whatever is one thing. To purport that speculation is fact is quite another. Better to talk about hopes, wonders, and desires for the next generation 90 as many do. That can be fun!

stormholloway
04-27-2008, 11:05 PM
Well done. http://www.amny.com/sports/am-tennis0312,0,4895406.story

^^^
Exactly. ALL of what's said before fact is known is speculation. That's what these kinds of threads specialize in. To admit that speculation is speculation or assumption or whatever is one thing. To purport that speculation is fact is quite another. Better to talk about hopes, wonders, and desires for the next generation 90 as many do. That can be fun!

Oh I see. You're implying that I'm just repeating what's already known.

Is it speculation that there will be a replacement for the K90? Is that what you call speculation? We know Sampras is working on a new model with Wilson. That's a fact, not speculation. We know that they release a new Tour 90 frame every couple of years. That's a fact.

I didn't say anything more than that, and those are facts. How much will Sampras influence the new frame? I don't know. I speculate that he'll have a lot of influence. Why not? It's not like the N90 was a huge hit. They might as well go with a playtester with clout and experience.

Either way, there is a new Tour 90 coming out. Are you doubting this? Or is this considered speculation?

AlpineCadet
04-27-2008, 11:08 PM
^^^
Exactly. ALL of what's said before fact is known is speculation. That's what these kinds of threads specialize in. To admit that speculation is speculation or assumption or whatever is one thing. To purport that speculation is fact is quite another. Better to talk about hopes, wonders, and desires for the next generation 90 as many do. That can be fun!
Riiight, and what exactly does this thread specialize in?

FYI, the production of the Sampras racket isn't speculation; Wilson is actually making one for the public. Try clicking on the provided link, before yapping about "hopes, wonders and desires."

80'stennis
04-28-2008, 01:42 AM
Oh I see. You're implying that I'm just repeating what's already known.

Is it speculation that there will be a replacement for the K90? Is that what you call speculation? We know Sampras is working on a new model with Wilson. That's a fact, not speculation. We know that they release a new Tour 90 frame every couple of years. That's a fact.

I didn't say anything more than that, and those are facts. How much will Sampras influence the new frame? I don't know. I speculate that he'll have a lot of influence. Why not? It's not like the N90 was a huge hit. They might as well go with a playtester with clout and experience.

Either way, there is a new Tour 90 coming out. Are you doubting this? Or is this considered speculation?

Sorry Stormholloway, wasn't really referring to your post, but rather Alpine Cadet's. You got caught in the crossfire since you were quoted in it. Everything you say here is well reasoned. In addition, you don't seem to be calling it the "Sampras stick", but rather seem to be suggesting that what we're waiting for is another Tour 90.

WeaponX
04-28-2008, 02:20 AM
Ok maybe it will be a new raquet of wilson, but the raquet in the excibition match in the U.S between Fed and Sampras, Was an Ncode Lead Taped, just with a pj all in black.

80'stennis
04-28-2008, 02:41 AM
Riiight, and what exactly does this thread specialize in?

FYI, the production of the Sampras racket isn't speculation; Wilson is actually making one for the public. Try clicking on the provided link, before yapping about "hopes, wonders and desires."

Is Wilson releasing a Sampras signature edition? Or will it be the next generation Tour 90? Healthy dose of marketing hype?

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 10:21 AM
Ok maybe it will be a new raquet of wilson, but the raquet in the excibition match in the U.S between Fed and Sampras, Was an Ncode Lead Taped, just with a pj all in black.
Incorrect. The racquet that Sampras used in the exo against Federer in New York was NOT from the PS/nCode/K Tour 90 mold and painted black. It was a completely different racquet from a different mold. These are the pics of the exact racquet that Sampras used in New York. Take a look at the throat. It is flat with a semicircle cutout just like on the PS 6.0 85/95 and not the sharp angled indented cutouts like on the Tour 90's.

http://i30.tinypic.com/35bclf8.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2hdyydt.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/x80194181.jpg

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 10:22 AM
Is Wilson releasing a Sampras signature edition? Or will it be the next generation Tour 90? Healthy dose of marketing hype?
Could be one and the same. This could be the next Tour 90 model that Sampras is testing prototypes of. Or it could be a separate model from the next Tour 90. Only Wilson knows what their plans are.

stormholloway
04-28-2008, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't count out a Sampras Signature racquet. If it was merely a new Tour 90 I don't see why they would go back to the PS85 beam construction. It seems tailored for Sampras and those who liked the PS85.

I know we're wishful for a PS90, but I don't think that's really that big of a stretch considering the evidence.

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 10:56 AM
I wouldn't count out a Sampras Signature racquet. If it was merely a new Tour 90 I don't see why they would go back to the PS85 beam construction. It seems tailored for Sampras and those who liked the PS85.

I know we're wishful for a PS90, but I don't think that's really that big of a stretch considering the evidence.
But most K90 users are people who liked the PS 6.0 85. If this was the next Tour 90, they will sell tons of them to former PS 6.0 85/95 users, probably even more than they've sold of the K90. Even Federer will likely switch since he's also a former PS 6.0 85 user. :)

AlpineCadet
04-28-2008, 11:35 AM
Incorrect. The racquet that Sampras used in the exo against Federer in New York was NOT from the PS/nCode/K Tour 90 mold and painted black. It was a completely different racquet from a different mold. These are the pics of the exact racquet that Sampras used in New York. Take a look at the throat. It is flat with a semicircle cutout just like on the PS 6.0 85/95 and not the sharp angled indented cutouts like on the Tour 90's.

http://i30.tinypic.com/35bclf8.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2hdyydt.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/x80194181.jpg
Agreed. They don't share the same mold, but they might probably share the same grommets if the head sizes are the same. I hope the cosmetics will be comparable to the PST90, that stick was a beauty.

stormholloway
04-28-2008, 11:58 AM
But most K90 users are people who liked the PS 6.0 85. If this was the next Tour 90, they will sell tons of them to former PS 6.0 85/95 users, probably even more than they've sold of the K90. Even Federer will likely switch since he's also a former PS 6.0 85 user. :)

Of course PS85 users like the K90. It's still in the same vein as the 85. I don't think they're THAT similar as so many seem to think, the K and the 85, but the K90 is still a Pro Staff and 85 users will of course like it.

If so, why doesn't Sampras play with it, or Courier? I thought the Tour 90, as far as weight distribution went, was closest to the 85. The only problem was the Tour 90 was so hefty. It was a club.

I love the K90 but I don't think it's that similar to the 85. It has its own thing going on.

stormholloway
04-28-2008, 11:59 AM
Agreed. They don't share the same mold, but they might probably share the same grommets if the head sizes are the same. I hope the cosmetics will be comparable to the PST90, that stick was a beauty.

Agreed here. I still have a PST90. It was the first racquet I bought when I started playing tennis again. I don't know why I ever left it.

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 12:10 PM
Of course PS85 users like the K90. It's still in the same vein as the 85. I don't think they're THAT similar as so many seem to think, the K and the 85, but the K90 is still a Pro Staff and 85 users will of course like it.

If so, why doesn't Sampras play with it, or Courier? I thought the Tour 90, as far as weight distribution went, was closest to the 85. The only problem was the Tour 90 was so hefty. It was a club.

I love the K90 but I don't think it's that similar to the 85. It has its own thing going on.
Exactly! That's what I'm saying. If they made this new "Sampras" racquet the next "Tour 90", they will sell even more of them to former PS 6.0 85 users than the K90 because this new racquet should be even more similar to the PS 6.0 85/95 than the K90 is.

stormholloway
04-28-2008, 12:15 PM
But to my knowledge it's the tech gimmicks that sell racquets. Also Federer seems to sell a lot of racquets. I don't know if Sampras can sell more sticks than Federer. Maybe they'll both "play" with the new Tour 90. That would help.

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 01:12 PM
But to my knowledge it's the tech gimmicks that sell racquets. Also Federer seems to sell a lot of racquets. I don't know if Sampras can sell more sticks than Federer. Maybe they'll both "play" with the new Tour 90. That would help.
I don't think most PS 6.0 85/95 users care much about tech gimmicks. They don't even have to put either Sampras' nor Federer's name on this new racquet. Just call it the "X Tour 90", and say that it plays and feels just like a PS 6.0 85 but with a 90 sq. in. head and the PS 6.0 85/95 users will buy it. This is a claim that they've never made before regarding any previous versions of the Tour 90.

Salsa_Lover
04-28-2008, 01:21 PM
Yes, but from the marketing point of view something isn't right.

The K90 is the Federer's racket, it has his signature on it.

From a marketing point of view he'll not switch to the sampras model, nor to another model.

Remember, the sales pitch for the K90 is that it was designed to Federer's personal specs.

From a purely marketing point of view, they need to keep this going on while Federer is on top and then when he steps down and a new dominant #1 comes on top they could sell a new signature racket.

Think about it for a moment.

Federer on an slump during the AO, and they had at the final Djokovich and Tsonga playing with K Blades ( or PJs ).

This was the golden oportunity for a sales pitch and marketing for wilson.

Can you imagine how many K Blades have been sold for that event alone ? ( and how much $$$$ made ).

I could even stretch it to suspect it was all a marketing scheme :)

No, I think Federer will stay with the K90 and maybe Wilson is hoping Djoker will step to the #1 spot on the near future and then he'll be the one wielding the newest technological breakthrough. Call it "X" technology or whatever.

WeaponX
04-28-2008, 02:35 PM
Incorrect. The racquet that Sampras used in the exo against Federer in New York was NOT from the PS/nCode/K Tour 90 mold and painted black. It was a completely different racquet from a different mold. These are the pics of the exact racquet that Sampras used in New York. Take a look at the throat. It is flat with a semicircle cutout just like on the PS 6.0 85/95 and not the sharp angled indented cutouts like on the Tour 90's.

http://i30.tinypic.com/35bclf8.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2hdyydt.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/x80194181.jpg

You are right, my bad.

BreakPoint
04-28-2008, 03:56 PM
No, I think Federer will stay with the K90 and maybe Wilson is hoping Djoker will step to the #1 spot on the near future and then he'll be the one wielding the newest technological breakthrough. Call it "X" technology or whatever.
Yes, but Wilson introduces a new Tour 90 models about every 2.5 years so what will Wilson come out with as the next Tour 90 after the K90, which is only about a year away? It could be this racquet that Sampras is playtesting. For all we know, Federer could be playtesting this racquet as well but it's just not made public. It was never made pubic that Federer was playtesting prototypes of the K90, either. I can definitely see Federer using this new racquet as his next "Tour 90" since he is also a former PS 6.0 85 user, just like Sampras is.

80'stennis
04-28-2008, 05:10 PM
Incorrect. The racquet that Sampras used in the exo against Federer in New York was NOT from the PS/nCode/K Tour 90 mold and painted black. It was a completely different racquet from a different mold. These are the pics of the exact racquet that Sampras used in New York. Take a look at the throat. It is flat with a semicircle cutout just like on the PS 6.0 85/95 and not the sharp angled indented cutouts like on the Tour 90's.

http://i30.tinypic.com/35bclf8.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2hdyydt.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/x80194181.jpg

Awesome pics! Something about those matte black racquets.

80'stennis
04-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Agreed here. I still have a PST90. It was the first racquet I bought when I started playing tennis again. I don't know why I ever left it.

How did the US PST90 compare with the PS85 in the feel department? I never played that USPST90, but I do have an Asian PST90 and the feel in my opinion is not there. Most significantly less solid, more muted, and stiffer.

There's still stock for the USPST90 in some other online stores, right? Maybe you can pick up a couple.:)

onehandbh
04-28-2008, 11:12 PM
If there is indeed a 90 sq in version of the PS85 coming, I'd
defintely be interested in giving it a hit. Played a set w/the
PS85 tonight for the first time in ages. For some reason,
serves are easier for me to control w/ the PS85. Maybe it
was because my toss was less sucky than usual today.

m1stuhxsp4rk5
04-28-2008, 11:19 PM
i seem to be able to get more control with the ps85 because i seem to be able to get more aces then the k90 but the k90 has that awesome spin for my kick serve. if the sampras racket has teh control of the ps85 adn the spin of the k90 it would be a dream. also the same or similar weight distribution of the ps85.

AlpineCadet
04-28-2008, 11:22 PM
If there is indeed a 90 sq in version of the PS85 coming, I'd
defintely be interested in giving it a hit. Played a set w/the
PS85 tonight for the first time in ages. For some reason,
serves are easier for me to control w/ the PS85. Maybe it
was because my toss was less sucky than usual today.

Probably also because you were playing against a total noob (me,) and you didn't feel any pressure, whatsoever.

roundiesee
04-29-2008, 01:10 AM
Good thread! I'm quite amazed that after after all the Wilson hype re the Tour 90, then Ncode90, now the K90, so many Wilson users still prefer and play better with the older 6.0 85/95. Let hope the new Sampras racket will satisfy every one.

Salsa_Lover
04-29-2008, 01:13 AM
Yes, but Wilson introduces a new Tour 90 models about every 2.5 years so what will Wilson come out with as the next Tour 90 after the K90, which is only about a year away? It could be this racquet that Sampras is playtesting. For all we know, Federer could be playtesting this racquet as well but it's just not made public. It was never made pubic that Federer was playtesting prototypes of the K90, either. I can definitely see Federer using this new racquet as his next "Tour 90" since he is also a former PS 6.0 85 user, just like Sampras is.

How long was the PS85 the flagship model until they decided to phase it out in favor of the newer PST 90 ? more than 2.5 years I think. It was during the long period of Sampras dominance isn't it ? In the same way I think they could maybe keep the K90 ( or PJs ) going on as long as Federer is on top.

BreakPoint
04-29-2008, 01:39 AM
How long was the PS85 the flagship model until they decided to phase it out in favor of the newer PST 90 ? more than 2.5 years I think. It was during the long period of Sampras dominance isn't it ? In the same way I think they could maybe keep the K90 ( or PJs ) going on as long as Federer is on top.
Don't worry, they will be replacing the retail K90 soon just like they replaced the retail nCode 90 in 2.5 years and the PS Tour 90 after only a year. The reason why they kept the PS 6.0 85 around as long as they did was because Sampras refused to use paintjobs. Federer has no such aversion to paintjobs, as he has proven before. There will soon be a new Tour 90 model. Whether Federer will actually switch to it is a completely different issue. He could choose to continue to use his current K90 but with the new model's paintjob over it.

Salsa_Lover
04-29-2008, 01:52 AM
BP I agree with that

The problem is the marketing pitch.

How can Federer switch to a newer model 90 ( PJ or not ) when the K90 IS the Federer model.

It is simply not logical as a sales argument.

The only logical alternatives

1. A new Federer signature 90 version phasing out the K90 ( improbable, the K90 was made to Federer's personal specs, you had to buy it to be like him, If Federer switches to a new one then this will tell the market then that the K90 was wrong so anyone that bought the K90 to be like Federer would have been misled )

2. A new dominant player with a new and improved racket that is superior to Federer's and hence that was the weapon who helped him to dethrone Federer and so it'll improve also your game ( improbable, as the ones that they have on their rooster to take Feds place Djoker and Tsonga are using a K Blade that is 93 sqinches not 90 ). And also maybe Federer will not be dethroned yet. Let's wait one more year and see.

3. A PS90 Sampras signature, for sampras fans and classic players... I don't think this would be a good sales pitch too. They need to see the dominant player wielding the new and improved racket, not a glory from the past.




... and maybe one probable and that goes along with the AO low point for Federer

4. The new K90 mk 2, the improved K90 still Federer signature, that helped Federer to come back after his mono/slump and now he is dominating again.... a bit late for the market though, he is already showing that with the current K90 alas with a black buttcap.

BreakPoint
04-29-2008, 11:08 AM
The problem is the marketing pitch.

How can Federer switch to a newer model 90 ( PJ or not ) when the K90 IS the Federer model.

Huh? Wasn't the nCode 90 THE "Federer model" as well? It was even painted for him in red and white just like his Swiss flag. Yet, he still switched to the K90. Don't worry, Wilson WILL come out with a new Tour 90 soon and Federer will switch to the new model's paintjob. The only question is if he'll stay with the K90 underneath the new paintjob or actually switch to the new model.

Lendl and Federer Fan
04-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Been using the K90 for the last 6+ months. Was using the
PS85 and looking for something with a little bigger
sweetspot and more power. After not using the PS85 for
a long time, I tried it again a couple weeks ago. Had been
playing very sparingly for a couple months and was *REALLY*
sucky a couple weeks ago. So I decided to use the PS85.
Instant improvement. Used it once more and then yesterday.
The conclusion I'm beginning to arrive at is this:
I play better with the PS85. Not for every shot, but overall
it's better.

FH: K90 for angles. PS85 for depth and control.
BH: PS85 hands down.
volleys: K90 b/c it has a bigger sweetspot and also for
reaction volleys. Touch goes to the PS85 and control goes
to the PS85.
Overheads. about a tie.
1st serve: PS85.
2nd serve: K90
dropshots: PS85.
half-volley: about the same.

But man I just hit my groundstrokes better w/the PS85.
Not sure why. Don't shank more often either.
The sucky thing is that I've sold most of my PS85's and
am down to just a few + 1 st. vincent and it doesn't appear
I can purchase any more at a reasonable price.

1HBH, actually I think you serve pretty well with PS85.

stormholloway
04-29-2008, 07:38 PM
More BreakPoint pretending like the K90 is undoubtedly the actual racquet that Federer plays with.

Let's put the fact that there's no hard evidence of this in perspective. He's been using the same racquet since his stint with the PS Tour 90, and there's no evidence that it's been the K90 all along, nor is there evidence he suddenly switched to the K90.

BreakPoint
04-29-2008, 08:07 PM
More BreakPoint pretending like the K90 is undoubtedly the actual racquet that Federer plays with.

Let's put the fact that there's no hard evidence of this in perspective. He's been using the same racquet since his stint with the PS Tour 90, and there's no evidence that it's been the K90 all along, nor is there evidence he suddenly switched to the K90.
And you pretending you know something about racquets. :-?

Evidence: The K90 has the same composition as the PS 6.0 85 (80% Graphite and 20% Kevlar). The only difference is that the Graphite in the K90 is "nCoded". Both use Single Braided construction.

When the nCode 90 came out, Federer is quoted as saying that his new racquet "is better by way of nanotechnology" (I think it's even on his website). He makes no mention of HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding, both of which are in the nCode 90 but not in the K90. He doesn't mention them because he is using a K90 underneath that nCode 90 paintjob.

Wilson has stated publicly numerous times that "the K90 sold in the stores is the same exact racquet that Federer plays with". They also said that this is "one of the few times in history that has ever happened". There would be no reason for them to make such clear and specific claims and risk multi-million dollar lawsuits when they were able to sell millions of nCode 90's by merely stating that "Federer plays with the nCode 90" without ever mentioning what it is that is actually being sold in the stores.

The difference between you and me is that I know things and/or am smart enough to figure things out, whereas, you think everything in this world is a conspiracy.

el sergento
04-30-2008, 07:35 AM
maybe Wilson is hoping Djoker will step to the #1 spot on the near future and then he'll be the one wielding the newest technological breakthrough. Call it "X" technology or whatever.

Forget about X, it will be called the [Q]Factor; "the Quitters racquet of choice".

The logo should look something like this [Q:( ] (but with the sad face inside the Q). I keeeed, I keeed :)

WeaponX
04-30-2008, 10:48 AM
And you pretending you know something about racquets. :-?

Evidence: The K90 has the same composition as the PS 6.0 85 (80% Graphite and 20% Kevlar). The only difference is that the Graphite in the K90 is "nCoded". Both use Single Braided construction.

When the nCode 90 came out, Federer is quoted as saying that his new racquet "is better by way of nanotechnology" (I think it's even on his website). He makes no mention of HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding, both of which are in the nCode 90 but not in the K90. He doesn't mention them because he is using a K90 underneath that nCode 90 paintjob.

Wilson has stated publicly numerous times that "the K90 sold in the stores is the same exact racquet that Federer plays with". They also said that this is "one of the few times in history that has ever happened". There would be no reason for them to make such clear and specific claims and risk multi-million dollar lawsuits when they were able to sell millions of nCode 90's by merely stating that "Federer plays with the nCode 90" without ever mentioning what it is that is actually being sold in the stores.

The difference between you and me is that I know things and/or am smart enough to figure things out, whereas, you think everything in this world is a conspiracy.

You don't are not all-knowing, so you are in no position to say that the you are smart enought to figure out that the raquet that use federer is an actually a k90, or you have proof of that? if you have it, show it and i will shut up, but if not...
Think that Federer is using a tour 90 moded by wilson.
but i don't have proof of that either, is just my opinion

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 11:23 AM
You don't are not all-knowing, so you are in no position to say that the you are smart enought to figure out that the raquet that use federer is an actually a k90, or you have proof of that? if you have it, show it and i will shut up, but if not...
Think that Federer is using a tour 90 moded by wilson.
but i don't have proof of that either, is just my opinion
Funny, you quoted my post but you didn't actually read it. Hmmm.....

The proof is as stated in my post above.

You also said that I was right and that you were wrong just in your previous post above.
You are right, my bad.

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 11:49 AM
More BreakPoint pretending like the K90 is undoubtedly the actual racquet that Federer plays with.

Let's put the fact that there's no hard evidence of this in perspective. He's been using the same racquet since his stint with the PS Tour 90, and there's no evidence that it's been the K90 all along, nor is there evidence he suddenly switched to the K90.
You are not all-knowing, so you are in no position to say that the you are smart enought to figure out that the raquet that use federer is an actually a k90, or you have proof of that? if you have it, show it and i will shut up, but if not...
Think that Federer is using a tour 90 moded by wilson.
but i don't have proof of that either, is just my opinion
Don't be fooled by the avid posting, he's still liable to spit out junk and misinformation for creepy/personal reasons.

Wait, what's this thread about? I've totally forgotten. :shock:

Ultra2HolyGrail
04-30-2008, 02:00 PM
The k90 is the EXACT same frame federer uses. Wilson decided to finally give the public the real federer racquet, after 5 years, of constant tw members complaining it did not look the same. It now looks the same. End of story.

onehandbh
04-30-2008, 02:07 PM
It's no good, I can't maneuver. Stay on target...
PS85 vs. K90

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 02:46 PM
It's no good, I can't maneuver. Stay on target...
PS85 vs. K90
If in a fight, I would def. put my money on the K90 in giving a potential knock out. With such a thin beam, the PS85 could just possibly shatter after a solid hit! Not sure how well the K90 can hold its coordination after a long workout though, all that swingweight is a lot to maintain.

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 02:51 PM
^Wait, I thought we were talking about racket boxing? My bad.

The k90 is the EXACT same frame federer uses. Wilson decided to finally give the public the real federer racquet, after 5 years, of constant tw members complaining it did not look the same. It now looks the same. End of story.

Bottom line, there are no facts that give any insight as to what composite/flex RF actually uses. Though you can believe what you want, stop posting misinformation as though they're the absolute truth to the matter.

Ultra2HolyGrail
04-30-2008, 03:33 PM
Bottom line, there are no facts that give any insight as to what composite/flex RF actually uses. Though you can believe what you want, stop posting misinformation as though they're the absolute truth to the matter.


Failed to see sarcasm :(

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm going to tie these two arguments together.

I, personally, don't find the K90 to be that similar to the PS85. Single braided construction notwithstanding, the K90's feel upon impact and just in-hand is totally different to me. It's a great racquet but doesn't feel akin to the 6.0 beyond the obvious.

I felt, and still feel, the PS Tour 90 feels the most similar to the 85. The weight distribution is very close, and I'm surprised more people didn't dig on this frame. I may trade my K90s for more of them.

I don't think Federer uses the K90 simply for the reason that I can't see going from the 85 to the K90. They're quite different in the context of Pro Staffs. It also seems odd that Sampras doesn't play with it and is instead playtesting a new frame with Wilson, especially considering that Pete and Roger played with the same racquet most of their lives.

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 04:09 PM
Failed to see sarcasm :(
What are you talking about? On second thought, don't answer my question. I don't want to know.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 04:28 PM
I don't think Federer uses the K90 simply for the reason that I can't see going from the 85 to the K90. They're quite different in the context of Pro Staffs. It also seems odd that Sampras doesn't play with it and is instead playtesting a new frame with Wilson, especially considering that Pete and Roger played with the same racquet most of their lives.
Exactly! So if the K90 wasn't close enough to the PS 6.0 85 for Federer, he'd already be using this new Sampras stick, which doesn't even exist yet because it's still under development with Sampras. Don't forget that Federer helped to design the K90, and he didn't design this new Sampras stick or else that would have been produced already instead of the K90.

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 04:52 PM
Well, I'll be interested to see if Federer's beam is the same as it is now when the Sampras stick comes out. We'll easily be able to see the differences between the K90 beam and the new one.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Well, I'll be interested to see if Federer's beam is the same as it is now when the Sampras stick comes out. We'll easily be able to see the differences between the K90 beam and the new one.
Really? The beam thickness in those pics above of the Sampras prototype look to be about the same as on the K90 to me. Don't forget that black makes frames (and women) look thinner. ;)

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 07:01 PM
I don't mean that.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h242/nalk7/35bclf8.jpg
http://img.tennis-warehouse.com/big/K61T90-3.JPG

The upper corners of the throat space don't have that little dimple area that the K90s do.

I believe this is correct.

Ultra2HolyGrail
04-30-2008, 07:15 PM
What are you talking about?


The k90 is the EXACT same racquet Federer uses. He designed it.

Ultra2HolyGrail
04-30-2008, 07:35 PM
Don't forget that Federer helped to design the K90, and he didn't design this new Sampras stick or else that would have been produced already instead of the K90.

Federer also designed the tour90 and ncode90.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Federer also designed the tour90 and ncode90.
The PS Tour 90 was designed for Sampras, not Federer. Neither Wilson nor Sampras himself knew he was going to retire before he was able to use it on tour. I don't recall seeing anything about Federer helping to design the nCode 90, like he did the K90. Wilson designed the nCode 90 for Federer but not with as much input from Federer as with the K90. With the K90, they said that he tested over 100 prototypes. Of course, this was really happening before the nCode 90 came out because Federer ended up using the K90 under his nCode 90 paintjob.

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 09:37 PM
The k90 is the EXACT same racquet Federer uses. He designed it.
Yeah, and 2008 could be Nalbandian's year. :roll:

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 10:05 PM
You never fail to mention your theory in every single one of your posts. The only difference being you don't state it as a theory, but rather as fact.

And it's all based on Wilson's saying that Federer uses it, when so many racquet companies have done just this. Except this time they've said "No really, he's really really using it."

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 10:12 PM
You never fail to mention your theory in every single one of your posts. The only difference being you don't state it as a theory, but rather as fact.

And it's all based on Wilson's saying that Federer uses it, when so many racquet companies have done just this. Except this time they've said "No really, he's really really using it."
Not true. Show me one other company that has ever said that one of their pros, who is using a paintjob, is using the same exact racquet that you can buy in the stores. Not even Wilson has ever said this about any other of their sponsored pros, and they have never even said this about Federer before the K90 came out. Search until you turn blue because you won't find it. All they ever say is that so-and-so is using "Model X", but what they will never say (except in this case with Federer and the K90) is that the Model X sold in the stores is the same exact racquet as the Model X that so-and-so uses on tour.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Federer uses a real K90? What, he's not good enough to use it? :confused:

Mick
04-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Why is it so hard for you to believe that Federer uses a real K90? What, he's not good enough to use it? :confused:


People can't believe Federer could win all those grand slam titles with this demanding racquet, the K90 :)

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 10:22 PM
It's not a matter of difficulty in believing something. There's no more evidence for Federer using the K90 than there is for any other premiere player using the racquet their company says they use. I'm not seeing any glaring differences in the marketing strategy, except for that Wilson's appears to be a bit better than the other companies.

I just think the K90 is drastically different than the 85. I just don't see him making that kind of switch. People talk about how similar they are but I'm not feeling it. I love the K90, but I don't see it as the natural evolution from the 85. If it were, there wouldn't be this Sampras stick on the way.

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 10:25 PM
Most of the pros have custom frames, but RF is using a retail Wilson frame? Right.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 10:40 PM
I just think the K90 is drastically different than the 85. I just don't see him making that kind of switch. People talk about how similar they are but I'm not feeling it. I love the K90, but I don't see it as the natural evolution from the 85. If it were, there wouldn't be this Sampras stick on the way.
But that's just it. If Federer's actual racquet was even closer to the PS 6.0 85 than the K90, then there would be no reason for Wilson to waste all of this time and money developing this "PS 6.0 90" for Sampras. Just give Sampras some of Federer's sticks and be done with it. Then release it to the public. In fact, why didn't they just release it to the public in the first place instead of the K90? What motivation could they possibly have to say that Federer designed the K90, put his signature on the racquet, say that Federer uses the same K90 that is sold in the stores, and then keep Federer's racquet from the public? :confused:

You do know that you're one of the very few people here that thinks the K90 plays and feels nothing like the PS 6.0 85, don't you? Former PS 6.0 85 users have been switching to the K90 in droves ever since it came out.

BTW, do you also think the Bryan Brothers' Prince Speedport Black plays anything like their former Wilson HPS 5.0? They are like night and day. How about Davydenko's Prince O3 Tour and his former Head LM Radical? Or Nadal's AeroPro Drive and his former Pure Drive Team? Or Ivanovic's Yonex RQiS and her former Wilson nBlade? You see pros switching from a Yonex to a Babolat to a Prince O3 all the time, even though they are very differnt racquets. To think that a pro is unable of adjusting to a new frame that's somewhat different from their old frame is ridiculous. They are so good they can play with just about anything. The pros that never switch are the superstitious ones.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 10:44 PM
Most of the pros have custom frames, but RF is using a retail Wilson frame? Right.
Most pros do not have custom made frames, only select few do. "Custom made" means it was designed to their requested specs. Yes, the K90 was indeed designed to Federer's requested specs. How many other pros with custom made frames have their signatures printed on the side of the retail frames?

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 10:51 PM
Most pros do not have custom made frames, only select few do. "Custom made" means it was designed to their requested specs. Yes, the K90 was indeed designed to Federer's requested specs. How many other pros with custom made frames have their signatures printed on the side of the retail frames?

How many other pros use a racquet that is marketed as having been designed by them and have their signature on its side?

You can argue diction if you'd like, but try to name anyone in the top 10 who uses a retail frame. Secondly, if you honestly believe that RF uses the retail k90, then I guess you must be another victim of marketing. :oops:

Mick
04-30-2008, 10:54 PM
You can argue diction if you'd like, but try to name anyone in the top 10 who uses a retail frame. Secondly, if you honestly believe that RF uses the retail k90, then I guess you must be another victim of marketing. :oops:

I wonder if the racquet that federer is using is even more demanding than the K90 that we can buy . It probably is. :)

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 10:54 PM
You can argue diction if you'd like, but try to name anyone in the top 10 who uses a retail frame. Secondly, if you honestly believe that RF uses the retail k90, then I guess you must be another victim of marketing. :oops:
How many other pros use a racquet that is marketed as having been designed by them and have their signature on its side?

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 10:56 PM
Most of the pros have custom frames, but RF is using a retail Wilson frame? Right.
Most pros put Luxilon in the mains and gut in the crosses, but RF puts gut in the mains and Luxilon in the crosses? Yeah, right.

stormholloway
04-30-2008, 11:07 PM
You do know that you're one of the very few people here that thinks the K90 plays and feels nothing like the PS 6.0 85, don't you? Former PS 6.0 85 users have been switching to the K90 in droves ever since it came out.

Well there aren't that many options for PS85 users. I feel strongly that the Tour 90 feels the most like the PS85 in terms of weight distribution. What do I care what a bunch of people think they feel? I'm actually quite baffled when people say how much the K90 is like the PS85. I don't feel it, and I'm a big fan of the K90. I just consider it a very different beast. This is a baseliner's stick, not a volleyer's.

BTW, do you also think the Bryan Brothers' Prince Speedport Black plays anything like their former Wilson HPS 5.0? They are like night and day. How about Davydenko's Prince O3 Tour and his former Head LM Radical? Or Nadal's AeroPro Drive and his former Pure Drive Team? Or Ivanovic's Yonex RQiS and her former Wilson nBlade? You see pros switching from a Yonex to a Babolat to a Prince O3 all the time, even though they are very differnt racquets. To think that a pro is unable of adjusting to a new frame that's somewhat different from their old frame is ridiculous. They are so good they can play with just about anything. The pros that never switch are the superstitious ones.

Well apparently Federer was so picky that he ditched the Tour 90. I'm not going to debate this forever. I just don't see the point of forcing your point into every mention of the K90, especially since there is still no HARD evidence that you're right about it.

BreakPoint
04-30-2008, 11:49 PM
Well there aren't that many options for PS85 users. I feel strongly that the Tour 90 feels the most like the PS85 in terms of weight distribution. What do I care what a bunch of people think they feel? I'm actually quite baffled when people say how much the K90 is like the PS85. I don't feel it, and I'm a big fan of the K90. I just consider it a very different beast. This is a baseliner's stick, not a volleyer's.
I totally disagree. I thought the PS Tour 90 swung nothing like the PS 6.0 85. It's much heavier and with way too much weight in the throat. In fact, I couldn't really play with the PS Tour 90. I think most people felt the same way and that's why it lasted on the market for only a year.

I volley great with the K90, better than with the PS 6.0 85. There's also a long thread here stating that the K90 is the best volleying racquet ever. Again, you're just different from most people.

Well apparently Federer was so picky that he ditched the Tour 90. I'm not going to debate this forever. I just don't see the point of forcing your point into every mention of the K90, especially since there is still no HARD evidence that you're right about it.
The PS Tour 90 was designed for Sampras, not Federer. Why would he continue to use a racquet specifically designed for someone else's preferences when Wilson was willing to design a new racquet (K90) totally to Federer's exact preferences? Which would you choose if you were Federer?

AlpineCadet
04-30-2008, 11:57 PM
The PS Tour 90 was designed for Sampras, not Federer. Why would he continue to use a racquet specifically designed for someone else's preferences when Wilson was willing to design a new racquet (K90) totally to Federer's exact preferences? Which would you choose if you were Federer?
Facts:
Wilson first created the Roger Federer frame in the Pro Staff Tour 90 paint job back in 2003.

That racket has always been the same for RF, even to this day.

Counting back, RF has gone through 3 different paint jobs with that mold, yet NO INFORMATION has been provided to prove that RF actually uses the Pro Staff Tour 90, nCode Six-One Tour 90, or the [K]Factor Tour 90.

Conclusion:
Stop harping your opinions (that RF actually has been using such-and-such all along) as though it is a fact that we should all know and accept. Marketing aside, you have no proof whatsoever.

BreakPoint
05-01-2008, 12:15 AM
Facts:
Wilson first created the Roger Federer frame in the Pro Staff Tour 90 paint job back in 2003.

That racket has always been the same for RF, even to this day.

Counting back, RF has gone through 3 different paint jobs with that mold, yet NO INFORMATION has been provided to prove that RF actually uses the Pro Staff Tour 90, nCode Six-One Tour 90, or the [K]Factor Tour 90.

Conclusion:
Stop harping your opinions (that RF actually has been using such-and-such all along) as though it is a fact that we should all know and accept. Marketing aside, you have no proof whatsoever.
Fact: Federer's racquet contains nanotechnology (he said so himself).

Fact: Federer never said his racquet contains HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding.

Fact: The K90 contains nanotechnology but not HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding (like the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90 both do)

Fact: Federer's racquet has the same string spacing and short pallet of the K90, which is different from the PS Tour 90 and nCode 90.

Fact: The K90's composition is 80% Graphite and 20% Kevlar just like his old PS 6.0 85.

Fact: Federer says he switched from the PS 6.0 85 six years ago (2002) and is still using the same racquet today (K90).

Fact: Tony Roche said Federer is using essentially a PS 6.0 85 but with a larger head. This disqualifies the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90 because they both contain HyperCarbon and Double Braiding and the PS 6.0 85 contains neither.

Fact: Federer's racquet is not a PS 6.0 90 or else Wilson wouldn't be only now developing a PS 6.0 90 for Sampras.

Conclusion? Federer uses a retail K90. There would be no reason for him not to since he designed it and he could have designed it any way that he wanted it.

VGP
05-01-2008, 09:19 AM
Facts or no facts......

....all we can do at the moment is take Federer's (and Wilson's) word at face value.

Roger Federer said that he was specific with Wilson that with the k90 available to everyone that it be the exact frame that he uses. Wilson's press release and several interviews with Federer (including one seen on TTC profiling Roland Garros where Roger says this to Murphy Jensen) show this. Federer even qualifies this by saying that he changes specs for different conditions.

When that frame came together (under the paintjob) we can only speculate. In their press release, Wilson said that they went over 80 iterations of the frame with Roger. I'm guessing it's been ever since he switched from the PS 6.0 85.

Now with what we can visually see with the k90, it's up to the consumer if they want to believe that they are using the same frame as Federer. If you don't believe what Federer and Wilson say, then that's up to you.

At least with Sampras, if you get yourself a SV PS85 you're pretty close to what Pete was using.

Funny that Roger said that he used to use "Pete's" racket.....I'm sure the retail k90 is closer to what Federer actually uses now (barring the butt caps) than the PS 6.0 is to the SV PS85. You guys wouldn't wanna bust his chops to this extent, would you?

stormholloway
05-01-2008, 09:57 AM
I totally disagree. I thought the PS Tour 90 swung nothing like the PS 6.0 85. It's much heavier and with way too much weight in the throat. In fact, I couldn't really play with the PS Tour 90. I think most people felt the same way and that's why it lasted on the market for only a year.

You must be numb. Why did they discontinue it? It has nothing to do with how good the racquet is. It's marketing. It was marketed for a guy that retired. That's hardly a good platform. The Tour 90 was the next racquet after the PS85. It was closer by blood. I think it's also closer in feel. Sure there's hypercarbon and a different construction, but just holding it in my hand I can tell the weight distribution is far more similar to the 85 than the K90.

I honestly think most people get the K90 because it's easier to swing for them and they want to be like Federer.

I volley great with the K90, better than with the PS 6.0 85. There's also a long thread here stating that the K90 is the best volleying racquet ever. Again, you're just different from most people.

You volley better with the K90 than the PS85? Again, you're numb.

The PS Tour 90 was designed for Sampras, not Federer. Why would he continue to use a racquet specifically designed for someone else's preferences when Wilson was willing to design a new racquet (K90) totally to Federer's exact preferences? Which would you choose if you were Federer?

Well they used the same racquet. I'd hardly say their preferences are that different, especially considering Sampras played with Federer's sticks for a while.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying Fed doesn't use a K90. I just don't see the point in establishing it as fact when the evidence isn't there.

BreakPoint
05-01-2008, 11:45 AM
You must be numb. Why did they discontinue it? It has nothing to do with how good the racquet is. It's marketing. It was marketed for a guy that retired. That's hardly a good platform. The Tour 90 was the next racquet after the PS85. It was closer by blood. I think it's also closer in feel. Sure there's hypercarbon and a different construction, but just holding it in my hand I can tell the weight distribution is far more similar to the 85 than the K90.
The PS Tour 90 feels very different from the PS 6.0 85. The addition of HyperCarbon and Double Braiding construction guaranteed that. The weight distribution is also completely different which makes the PS Tour 90 MUCH harder to swing and maneuver than the PS 6.0 85. Just about everyone except you agrees with that. I think you must be the one that's "numb".

Wilson never got the chance to market the PS Tour 90 as Sampras' racquet because he retired before he ever used it in a match. When it came out, it was marketed as Federer's racquet and he used it (or paintjob thereof) from the spring of 2003. There were lots of Wilson pics, ads, and posters of Federer using the PS Tour 90. He could have easily continued to use that PS Tour 90 paintjob had the racquet sold well. It was just too much racquet for most recreational players.

I think you think that the PS Tour 90 plays like the PS 6.0 85 just because they are both black. Amazing how the eyes deceive.

I honestly think most people get the K90 because it's easier to swing for them and they want to be like Federer.
You're right about the first part but wrong about the second part. The K90 also feels a lot more like the PS 6.0 85 because neither use HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding. Those are also the reasons why the K90 feels flexier than the nCode 90 and the PS Tour 90. Almost everyone who's played with the K90 agrees that it's the Tour 90 that feels the closest to the PS 6.0 85.

You volley better with the K90 than the PS85? Again, you're numb.
Yes, the larger head makes it a bit easier to volley with. Most also agree. The small head on the PS 6.0 85 always made it more challenging for me to volley with.

Well they used the same racquet. I'd hardly say their preferences are that different, especially considering Sampras played with Federer's sticks for a while.

Exactly! If their preferences were the same, Sampras would just use Federer's racquet and be happy. So obviously their preferences are different, and Federer's racquet (K90) is different enough from a PS 6.0 90 that Wilson is spending all this time and money on developing a PS 6.0 90 for Sampras.

AlpineCadet
05-01-2008, 12:14 PM
Fact: Federer's racquet contains nanotechnology (he said so himself).

Fact: Federer never said his racquet contains HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding.

Fact: The K90 contains nanotechnology but not HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding (like the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90 both do)

Fact: Federer's racquet has the same string spacing and short pallet of the K90, which is different from the PS Tour 90 and nCode 90.

Fact: The K90's composition is 80% Graphite and 20% Kevlar just like his old PS 6.0 85.

Fact: Federer says he switched from the PS 6.0 85 six years ago (2002) and is still using the same racquet today (K90).

Fact: Tony Roche said Federer is using essentially a PS 6.0 85 but with a larger head. This disqualifies the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90 because they both contain HyperCarbon and Double Braiding and the PS 6.0 85 contains neither.

Fact: Federer's racquet is not a PS 6.0 90 or else Wilson wouldn't be only now developing a PS 6.0 90 for Sampras.

Conclusion? Federer uses a retail K90. There would be no reason for him not to since he designed it and he could have designed it any way that he wanted it.
How would you know the difference between fact or fiction, when the marketing bug has already bit you in the arse to begin with? :oops:

stormholloway
05-01-2008, 12:28 PM
The PS Tour 90 feels very different from the PS 6.0 85. The addition of HyperCarbon and Double Braiding construction guaranteed that. The weight distribution is also completely different which makes the PS Tour 90 MUCH harder to swing and maneuver than the PS 6.0 85. Just about everyone except you agrees with that. I think you must be the one that's "numb".

Wilson never got the chance to market the PS Tour 90 as Sampras' racquet because he retired before he ever used it in a match. When it came out, it was marketed as Federer's racquet and he used it (or paintjob thereof) from the spring of 2003. There were lots of Wilson pics, ads, and posters of Federer using the PS Tour 90. He could have easily continued to use that PS Tour 90 paintjob had the racquet sold well. It was just too much racquet for most recreational players.

I agree the Tour 90 is a bit harder to swing, but not that much. I feel a slight disconnect between the handle and racquet head with the K90, like there's missing mass in the throat area. I feel the opposite with the Tour 90, like there's extra mass there. Both are great racquets IMO. With all the people who put all that lead on their frames, I don't see how 0.3 ounces makes a difference.

Still, The Tour 90's marketing had been setup with Sampras in mind. It wasn't like the nCode where they had all the marketing and paint setup with Federer in mind.

I think you think that the PS Tour 90 plays like the PS 6.0 85 just because they are both black. Amazing how the eyes deceive.

That's just silly.

You're right about the first part but wrong about the second part. The K90 also feels a lot more like the PS 6.0 85 because neither use HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding. Those are also the reasons why the K90 feels flexier than the nCode 90 and the PS Tour 90. Almost everyone who's played with the K90 agrees that it's the Tour 90 that feels the closest to the PS 6.0 85.

I agree the hybercarbon and double braiding changed the way the racquet felt in comparison to the 85. It's stiffer, but to me, it's also a bit more solid in the same vein. The layup of the K90 is closer to the 85; no doubt. They both seem similar in flex, but I think the weighting is totally different. To me, the Tour 90 feels like a stiffer denser PS85.

Yes, the larger head makes it a bit easier to volley with. Most also agree. The small head on the PS 6.0 85 always made it more challenging for me to volley with.

Fair enough. To each his own.

Exactly! If their preferences were the same, Sampras would just use Federer's racquet and be happy. So obviously their preferences are different, and Federer's racquet (K90) is different enough from a PS 6.0 90 that Wilson is spending all this time and money on developing a PS 6.0 90 for Sampras.

Well, let's look at it this way. Sampras has been using Federer's racquet. But Wilson probably came to him with a business proposal: "How about a Sampras signature frame?" He obviously agreed. I doubt Sampras went to Wilson and said "I need my own frame. Federer's sucks." Obviously since he is helping design it he can tailor it perfectly to himself, but it's doubtful that he found Fed's frame unsuited to him and demanded his own personally designed frame from Wilson.

stormholloway
05-01-2008, 12:39 PM
You're right about the first part but wrong about the second part. The K90 also feels a lot more like the PS 6.0 85 because neither use HyperCarbon nor Double Braiding. Those are also the reasons why the K90 feels flexier than the nCode 90 and the PS Tour 90. Almost everyone who's played with the K90 agrees that it's the Tour 90 that feels the closest to the PS 6.0 85.

Glad we agree here.

But seriously, I'm willing to bet that 50% of the K90's racquet sales are due to people wanting a piece of Federer glory. I'm not saying it's good or bad but that's part of racquet marketing. Just read that article the NY Times just wrote about Babolat.

BreakPoint
05-01-2008, 01:26 PM
Well, let's look at it this way. Sampras has been using Federer's racquet. But Wilson probably came to him with a business proposal: "How about a Sampras signature frame?" He obviously agreed. I doubt Sampras went to Wilson and said "I need my own frame. Federer's sucks." Obviously since he is helping design it he can tailor it perfectly to himself, but it's doubtful that he found Fed's frame unsuited to him and demanded his own personally designed frame from Wilson.
I think what really happened is that Wilson went to Pete and said - "The folks on that TW message board, especially that annoying guy BreakPoint, have been clamoring for a PS 6.0 90 for years and continue to do so even after we've come out with three generations of the Tour 90, so we've decided to just go ahead and make the damn thing if just to shut these people up. So Pete, since you're more familiar with the PS 6.0 85 than anyone else in the world, can you help us develop this new PS 6.0 90 and test some of the prototypes?"

THAT'S what REALLY happened! ;) :)

BreakPoint
05-01-2008, 01:27 PM
Glad we agree here.

I think you know I was referring to the K-Six-One Tour 90 (as opposed to the nSix-One Tour 90 or the PS Tour 90).

quest01
05-01-2008, 02:25 PM
I had the same revelation recently. I pulled out my PS 6.0 95 which I haven't used in a very long time. Well, I played better with it than any other racquet that I own. Why did I ever stop using it? :confused: It was better for just about everything and just so much easier to use for both offense and defense. They really need to bring this stick back. I guess it was a mistake selling 9 of my 10 PS 6.0 95's as I only have one left. :(

See I told you that you play better with mid plus racquets. You mentioned this in another thread and I believe I asked if you play better with the 95 why do you continue to use a mid. You did respond but I don't remember what you said.

BreakPoint
05-01-2008, 03:00 PM
See I told you that you play better with mid plus racquets. You mentioned this in another thread and I believe I asked if you play better with the 95 why do you continue to use a mid. You did respond but I don't remember what you said.
I might have played better on that day. Doesn't mean I always will.