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View Full Version : The Clay season is so Ridiculously PACKED!!!


Jimmyk459
04-28-2008, 05:58 AM
I personally find it completely ridiculous that starting on April 20th, there are 4 HUGE consecutive Clay tournaments followed by a week off before Roland Garros.

Week 1: AMS Monte-Carlo
Week 2: Barcelona
Week 3: AMS Rome
Week 4: AMS Hamburg

All of these tournaments are absolutely huge and it is unfair to the players who thrive on this surface to compress their clay court season to approx a month and a half. It is also unhealthy for the players because most players who do well in these tournaments play almost every day (Especially Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Davydenko, Ferrer, etc...). I would like to see the ATP begin the clay season a month earlier to allow all of the top players to play in ALL of these tournaments while receiving ample amounts of rest.

There is no other time of the year that is so incredibly grueling for the players except perhaps the end of the US Open series leading to the Open and we all know how everyone (fans and players alike) feel about that.

thoughts..??? Agree, disagree? why?

Nadal_Freak
04-28-2008, 06:01 AM
Agreed. Totally unfair to Rafa.

coloskier
04-28-2008, 06:03 AM
It just shows to you that most people just want to get the clay season over as quickly as possible.

superstition
04-28-2008, 12:55 PM
It just shows to you that biased ATP officials want to get the clay season over as quickly as possible.
fixed

10 characters.

gj011
04-28-2008, 12:57 PM
It just shows to you that corrupt US TV stations, with no regards about the game of tennis, just want to get the clay season over as quickly as possible, in order to satisfy their couch potato audience.

Fixed properly.

bluetrain4
04-28-2008, 01:02 PM
I agree that it's way to crowded. But, if a player is a true contender for the French, there's no way he should be playing all four events (though Rafa has done it in the past, I still think it's a bad idea). Isn't there a week off between the German Open and the French when the World Team Cup is played?

superstition
04-28-2008, 01:03 PM
Fixed properly.
The TV stations aren't making the calls. It's one thing to apply pressure (TV execs) and it's another to actually make the decisions (ATP officials).

Chauvalito
04-28-2008, 01:04 PM
Fixed properly.

There is only one channel in the US that shows any of these tournaments...the tennis channel.

It is a cable channel. While they may have enough clout to move a tournaments like Indian wells and and the PLO, they have no effect on European tournaments (for now).

The blame should be placed placed with the tennis governing bodies who have yet to make any significant changes to the schedule that would be to the betterment of the tour and the players.

superstition
04-28-2008, 01:04 PM
if a player is a true contender for the French, there's no way he should be playing all four events (though Rafa has done it in the past, I still think it's a bad idea).
The big question is: does he need to play all those tournaments to have a shot at taking the number 1 ranking?

Stchamps
04-28-2008, 01:05 PM
it separates the best from the rest

veroniquem
04-28-2008, 01:05 PM
Spanish Espn is showing them too, I subscribed for less than 6 dollars a month!

Moose Malloy
04-28-2008, 01:06 PM
I would like to see the ATP begin the clay season a month earlier to allow all of the top players to play in ALL of these tournaments while receiving ample amounts of rest.


Considering that Key Biscayne & Miami probably generate more revenue for the ATP than Barcelona, Monte Carlo(their center court looks smaller than court 2 at IW), Rome, & Hamburg(which is losing its masters series status after this year, remember?) combined, there is no chance in hell of the clay season ever being lengthened by a month, it would interfere with the big money events.

Money is all that is important to the ATP, not the players interests, which is sorta understandable, without some revenue there would be no ATP, & half the guys on tour would be teaching at your local club.

At least its a lot fairer to the players today than it was in the 70s or 80s, players had to play a MS type event indoors in the US one week than play on clay in Rome the next week some years. And they had to play best of 5 finals every other week or so as well.

tacou
04-28-2008, 01:06 PM
yea for real, I love the clay season and the players who Love it are getting screwed.

gj011
04-28-2008, 01:11 PM
The TV stations aren't making the calls. It's one thing to apply pressure (TV execs) and it's another to actually make the decisions (ATP officials).

You are correct, the reason why the schedule is moved is the pressure US TV stations put on ATP. But I cannot blame the ATP only, since US TV machine knows how to be persuasive.

There is only one channel in the US that shows any of these tournaments...the tennis channel.

It is a cable channel. While they may have enough clout to move a tournaments like Indian wells and and the PLO, they have no effect on European tournaments (for now).

The blame should be placed placed with the tennis governing bodies who have yet to make any significant changes to the schedule that would be to the betterment of the tour and the players.

The schedule is moved so IW and Miami could be aligned with NCAA basketball final 4 which was later this year for some reason. The clay season is shortened due to this reason only, since they have to start clay tournaments later because Miami finished later. Bad and mindless decision.

Moose Malloy
04-28-2008, 01:13 PM
The schedule is moved so IW and Miami could be aligned with NCAA basketball final 4 which was later this year for some reason. The clay season is shortened due to this reason only. Bad and mindless decision.

I'm not sure this is true, the clay season was exactly the same in 2004 as well. It can't just be coincidence that both years are Olympic years.

And even so, why all the outrage over a schedule that is shortened by exactly one week compared to last year? Can just one week really screw the top players that much?

gj011
04-28-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure this is true, the clay season was exactly the same in 2004 as well. It can't just be coincidence that both years are Olympic years.

This is just an excuse they use. Why would they push forward schedule in April and May for the Olympics which is played in August. Schedule will be back on track for RG and Wimbledon. I really don't see any connection here. If they pushed back all events before Olympics I could see a reason. Like this it makes no sense.

big ted
04-28-2008, 02:00 PM
i wouldnt say barcelona is a HUGE tournament.. the only reason nadal plays it is cuz hes from spain..

Andres
04-28-2008, 02:18 PM
i wouldnt say barcelona is a HUGE tournament.. the only reason nadal plays it is cuz hes from spain..
It's the 2nd biggest non-Grand-slam-non-Master-Series event, after Dubai. Or third (maybe Queens...)

But yeah, it's a big tourney.

Fee
04-28-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm not sure this is true, the clay season was exactly the same in 2004 as well. It can't just be coincidence that both years are Olympic years.

And even so, why all the outrage over a schedule that is shortened by exactly one week compared to last year? Can just one week really screw the top players that much?

Yes it was compressed in 2004 as well, to accomodate the Olympics.


It's still longer than grass. Next's year's schedule will probably be an even bigger mess. The proposed schedule still hasn't been finalized, apparently no one is happy with it, they hope to release it at Wimbledon, and if we're lucky, it will be the final nail in DeVilliers coffin and his contract won't be renewed in December.

NoBadMojo
04-28-2008, 07:17 PM
This clay court season is nowhere as grueling as the US hardcourt season.

It is played in milder weather on a much kinder surface for the body.

Even federer commented that it really isnt greuling playing best 2 of 3 on the dirt and he usually makes the finals....pounding on the now slower higher bounding hardcourts in oppressive heat and humidity is far more demanding. Also the hardcourt season comes much later in the season when players are more tired, injured, and likely to be injured

KFactor27
04-28-2008, 07:49 PM
They should definitely space the clay court season more apart and give atleast a week or two in between tournaments. It's my favorite season because of the locations and it's dissapointing how quickly it's going to fly by.

Jimmyk459
04-29-2008, 10:44 AM
"This clay court season is nowhere as grueling as the US hardcourt season.

It is played in milder weather on a much kinder surface for the body."

This is why it should be extended. They should trade some hard court events for grass and clay court events. There would be more diversity in the events. The players would probably agree too, seeing as it will only make their body's less fatigued.

Moose Malloy
04-29-2008, 10:56 AM
Next's year's schedule will probably be an even bigger mess. The proposed schedule still hasn't been finalized, apparently no one is happy with it, they hope to release it at Wimbledon, and if we're lucky, it will be the final nail in DeVilliers coffin and his contract won't be renewed in December.


If the ATP has increased revenue during his time, his contract should be renewed. That's all that should matter, not what the players think. This is a business.

If the players ran the game, so many aspects of the game today would not even exist (the players had a fit when the USO instituted the tiebreak in 1970, apparently the top 50 all signed a letter protesting it, to no avail)

Sometimes change can be a good thing, it takes time to be able to see that.

gj011
04-29-2008, 11:00 AM
If the ATP has increased revenue during his time, his contract should be renewed. That's all that should matter, not what the players think. This is a business.

If the players ran the game, so many aspects of the game today would not even exist (the players had a fit when the USO instituted the tiebreak in 1970, apparently the top 50 all signed a letter protesting it, to no avail)

Sometimes change can be a good thing, it takes time to be able to see that.

It should not be all about the revenue. There are other things to consider.

Nadal_Freak
04-29-2008, 12:54 PM
Hard court season should be shortened. Such a horrible surface to other players joints. It's a joke that they continue to sacrifice players bodies just because the surface is easier to take care of. I think grass should be the surface they go to as it is just as fast but much easier on the body.

ruski07
04-29-2008, 05:07 PM
i think they should play a few of the masters series events after the aussie open abit sooner and prolong the claycourt season abit

edmondsm
04-29-2008, 05:28 PM
"This clay court season is nowhere as grueling as the US hardcourt season.

It is played in milder weather on a much kinder surface for the body."

This is why it should be extended. They should trade some hard court events for grass and clay court events. There would be more diversity in the events. The players would probably agree too, seeing as it will only make their body's less fatigued.

Here here, I'm all for it. As long as I get to watch some of these newly spawned clay and grass events.

Gasquetrules
04-29-2008, 05:32 PM
I don't think the schedule is dictated by US TV networks, since they broadcast less and less tennis with each passing year. Tennis is clearly in decline in the US.

However, I think the USTA and other US tennis organizations still have disproportionate influence over the sport, and they try to limit clay events and expand hardcourt events so that US players can maintain decent rankings. I believe less than 25 percent of the ATP events are played on clay. I know clay and grass combined account for something like 40 percent of the events. The hardcouts (indoor and outdoor) dominate the tour. This is why US players can do so poorly on clay and still maintain top-ten rankings.

I think clay should make up 40 percent, hardcourts 40 percent, and grass 20 percent of ATP events. This would certainly reduce injuries and lengthen the playing careers of the players, since 60 percent of events would be on soft surfaces.

ruski07
04-29-2008, 06:26 PM
they broadcast less and less tennis with each passing year. Tennis is clearly in decline in the US.



same as in australia, they broadcast the aussie open and some davis cups ties and thats about it, seeing i dont have pay tv i rarely get 2 c any tennis on tv, its ridiculous

my_forehand
04-30-2008, 04:35 AM
Agreed. Totally unfair to Rafa.

...And the other players? :rolleyes:

Unless that was sarcastic; that's just...

Nadal_Freak
04-30-2008, 07:11 AM
...And the other players? :rolleyes:

Unless that was sarcastic; that's just...
The other players aren't going to have to play in the finals in every event they enter. It's not as exhausting for them.

bluetrain4
04-30-2008, 07:51 AM
The other players aren't going to have to play in the finals in every event they enter. It's not as exhausting for them.

Nadal doesn't have to play all these tournaments. He is allowed to skip a Masters, and Barcelona is not mandatory. But, I understand why he plays. It's his best surface, he's defending lots of points. As to Barcelona, he probably gets a big appearance fee and probably wants to please his Spanish fans by playing. I think he should drop Hamburg though and rest.

Grimjack
04-30-2008, 08:28 AM
Nobody from the developed world gives a crap about any of these tournaments anyway.

I'm sure there's fury in the streets in places where sports are still played on dirt, rabid dogs rule the streets, and homeless children crowd the alleyways, begging from rich tourists and eating out of trash cans. Places like Paraguay, Cambodia, Sierra Leone, Spain, and Argentina.

Here in the first world, there's only one dirt tournament that matters, and it only matters because the French have money.

veroniquem
04-30-2008, 08:37 AM
Are you saying Spain is a 3rd world country full of rabid dogs and waifs? How about Rome? 3rd world city also? Can a poster on this board be banned for dementia praecox??!!

coloskier
04-30-2008, 08:38 AM
"This clay court season is nowhere as grueling as the US hardcourt season.

It is played in milder weather on a much kinder surface for the body."

This is why it should be extended. They should trade some hard court events for grass and clay court events. There would be more diversity in the events. The players would probably agree too, seeing as it will only make their body's less fatigued.

The only players that would agree to this are clay court players. Everyone is going to support their favorite surface and be against anything that is not their favorite.

coloskier
04-30-2008, 08:39 AM
It should not be all about the revenue. There are other things to consider.

Tell that to the sponsors, and watch how hard they laugh. Without sponsors, there is no tournament.

coloskier
04-30-2008, 08:43 AM
Hard court season should be shortened. Such a horrible surface to other players joints. It's a joke that they continue to sacrifice players bodies just because the surface is easier to take care of. I think grass should be the surface they go to as it is just as fast but much easier on the body.

You don't see hard court players complain about the surface because they have played on it all their life and their body is used to it. The only players you see complain about hard courts are clay court players. You don't see Fed (even if he grew up on clay) or other non-clay court players complain about hard court injuries. Hard court players are more apt to get injured on clay courts because of the poor footing. It all comes down to what your body is used to.

Dilettante
04-30-2008, 08:50 AM
Are you saying Spain is a 3rd world country full of rabid dogs and waifs? How about Rome? 3rd world city also? Can a poster on this board be banned for dementia praecox??!!

I think he is being ironic, but on this board you can't never tell anyway.

danb
04-30-2008, 08:51 AM
I personally find it completely ridiculous that starting on April 20th, there are 4 HUGE consecutive Clay tournaments followed by a week off before Roland Garros.

Week 1: AMS Monte-Carlo
Week 2: Barcelona
Week 3: AMS Rome
Week 4: AMS Hamburg

All of these tournaments are absolutely huge and it is unfair to the players who thrive on this surface to compress their clay court season to approx a month and a half. It is also unhealthy for the players because most players who do well in these tournaments play almost every day (Especially Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Davydenko, Ferrer, etc...). I would like to see the ATP begin the clay season a month earlier to allow all of the top players to play in ALL of these tournaments while receiving ample amounts of rest.

There is no other time of the year that is so incredibly grueling for the players except perhaps the end of the US Open series leading to the Open and we all know how everyone (fans and players alike) feel about that.

thoughts..??? Agree, disagree? why?

Agreed - good point.

danb
04-30-2008, 08:54 AM
Hard court season should be shortened. Such a horrible surface to other players joints. It's a joke that they continue to sacrifice players bodies just because the surface is easier to take care of. I think grass should be the surface they go to as it is just as fast but much easier on the body.

Correct - clay is easier on the body. Then some players do not play long points so they can take it. Ideal setup would make the three surfaces (clay, grass and hard-courts) equal from the duration and importance (points) point of view.

Nadal_Freak
04-30-2008, 09:26 AM
Nobody from the developed world gives a crap about any of these tournaments anyway.

I'm sure there's fury in the streets in places where sports are still played on dirt, rabid dogs rule the streets, and homeless children crowd the alleyways, begging from rich tourists and eating out of trash cans. Places like Paraguay, Cambodia, Sierra Leone, Spain, and Argentina.

Here in the first world, there's only one dirt tournament that matters, and it only matters because the French have money.
No one gives a crap on what you think.

Nadal_Freak
04-30-2008, 09:28 AM
Nadal doesn't have to play all these tournaments. He is allowed to skip a Masters, and Barcelona is not mandatory. But, I understand why he plays. It's his best surface, he's defending lots of points. As to Barcelona, he probably gets a big appearance fee and probably wants to please his Spanish fans by playing. I think he should drop Hamburg though and rest.
The point is they spread the hard court much more allowing the best hard court players to rack up points while you have to skip a big clay court event to avoid exhaustion. Such a stupid decision to compact the clay events.

bluetrain4
04-30-2008, 09:47 AM
The point is they spread the hard court much more allowing the best hard court players to rack up points while you have to skip a big clay court event to avoid exhaustion. Such a stupid decision to compact the clay events.

It's not just the hardcourts. To begin stretching out the clay season, you would have start by moving Wimbledon later, so the French could also be later.

Nadal_Freak
04-30-2008, 09:49 AM
It's not just the hardcourts. To begin stretching out the clay season, you would have start by moving Wimbledon later, so the French could also be later.
No you just don't spread out Indian Wells and Miami like they did. A month for 2 tournaments?

bluetrain4
04-30-2008, 10:01 AM
No you just don't spread out Indian Wells and Miami like they did. A month for 2 tournaments?

IW and Miami are literally back to back. The main draw of Miami starts the Wednesday or Thursday after the Sunday IW final. I guess you could move both earlier in the year. But, then you'd be risking poor weather for IW (mainly cold (yes the desert gets cold).)

Also, if you extend the clay season by moving it earlier, don't the early tournaments risk poor weather? I mean, there's always a risk of poor weather ragardless, but you want to play the percentages.

PROTENNIS63
04-30-2008, 02:07 PM
Agreed. Totally unfair to Rafa.

Your boy has a 99% winning percentage on the dirt and you still complain? :confused:

edmondsm
04-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Correct - clay is easier on the body. Then some players do not play long points so they can take it. Ideal setup would make the three surfaces (clay, grass and hard-courts) equal from the duration and importance (points) point of view.

Don't clayers tend to get alot of health problems associated with long rallies?

Nadal_Freak
04-30-2008, 02:18 PM
IW and Miami are literally back to back. The main draw of Miami starts the Wednesday or Thursday after the Sunday IW final. I guess you could move both earlier in the year. But, then you'd be risking poor weather for IW (mainly cold (yes the desert gets cold).)

Also, if you extend the clay season by moving it earlier, don't the early tournaments risk poor weather? I mean, there's always a risk of poor weather ragardless, but you want to play the percentages.
Miami and Indian Wells were spread out as 10 or 11 days instead of 7 to finish the tournament. In other words Also they could've started all the tournaments a week earlier. It's not going to change the weather that drastically. That way you can have a week between Rome and Hamburg.

Klatu Verata Necktie
04-30-2008, 03:55 PM
Don't clayers tend to get alot of health problems associated with long rallies?

Many do, but Nadal doesn't seem to get into too many long rallies in his routine matches. His offense is so strong that he's able to end points relatively quickly. Long rallies develop against the best in the world, which doesn't happen every week.

drive
04-30-2008, 05:09 PM
I have read today in a spanish newspaper that Nadal has said that he will probably skip Hamburg this year.

Chauvalito
04-30-2008, 05:14 PM
Hard court season should be shortened. Such a horrible surface to other players joints. It's a joke that they continue to sacrifice players bodies just because the surface is easier to take care of. I think grass should be the surface they go to as it is just as fast but much easier on the body.

Would that not raise ticket prices?

superstition
05-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Don't clayers tend to get alot of health problems associated with long rallies?
Hard courts are hardly easy on the body and are definitely responsible for more injuries in the WTA tour, if not both. But, yes.. grass is by far the best surface because it's soft.

mauricem
05-01-2008, 08:48 PM
same as in australia, they broadcast the aussie open and some davis cups ties and thats about it, seeing i dont have pay tv i rarely get 2 c any tennis on tv, its ridiculous

Fellow Aussie here,

it sucks, at least we still get wimbledon though you wonder for how much longer . I remember watching the us open on FTA not that long ago but thats no more either.

Be stuffed if Im going to pay $80 per month for fox as thats apparently what you need to spend for decent sports coverage.

Watched some of MC on bet365 which was better quality than a torrent of the same event:???: