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View Full Version : What's a "hard" draw look like?


Aabye
05-03-2008, 10:21 AM
I had thought there was already a thread like this, but I didn't see one when I used the search button.

Alright, so everybody always claims that so-and-so has a tough draw, or an easy draw, etc. But what makes a draw hard? Create the hardest draw, first round thru the final, for one or all of the surfaces (only current players allowed). You can either do it from the perspective of one player (i.e for Nadal on hardcourts you might add Blake or Nalbandian), or just in general (i.e. anybody who faces the prospect of playing Federer, Nadal and Djokovic on clay might as well not show up for the tournament).

Grass (general):
First round, Murray; Second round, Roddick; Third round, Ancic; Fourth round, Gasquet; Quarters, Djokovic; Semis, Nadal; Final, Federer.

Aeropro master
05-03-2008, 10:25 AM
on clay: Monaco, Almagro, Ferrer, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Federer, Nadal
(in order of rounds)

GasquetGOAT
05-03-2008, 10:29 AM
In door: Safin > Roddick > Davydenko > Nadal > Ferrer > Federer > Nalbandian!

dh003i
05-03-2008, 10:30 AM
on clay: Monaco, Almagro, Ferrer, Davydenko, Djokovic, Federer, Nadal
(in order of rounds)

Fine until the Djokovic part. Nalbandian instead.

dh003i
05-03-2008, 10:31 AM
In door: Safin > Roddick > Davydenko > Nadal > Ferrer > Federer > Nalbandian!

Laugh @ Nalby being better than Fed indoors...it may be Nalby's best surface, but Fed's still better than him there.

GasquetGOAT
05-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Laugh @ Nalby being better than Fed indoors...it may be Nalby's best surface, but Fed's still better than him there.

2 MS > 1 MC, no?

dh003i
05-03-2008, 11:15 AM
Hasn't Federer won several of the YEC, which are on carpet, right?

I don't know about indoor, but really, what diff does indoor vs. outdoor make? It's about the surface.

Aeropro master
05-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Fine until the Djokovic part. Nalbandian instead. Nalbandian instead.

thanks i'll change it:)

Andres
05-03-2008, 03:49 PM
Edit post.

Nadal_Freak
05-03-2008, 03:53 PM
on clay: Monaco, Almagro, Ferrer, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Federer, Nadal
(in order of rounds)
I would put Djokovic ahead of Nalbandian. Nalbandian is dangerous though but not consistent enough and he gets owned by Wawrinka.

gj011
05-03-2008, 04:33 PM
thanks i'll change it:)

What, are you taking orders from Fed funboys now? Djokovic is for sure hard draw on clay and belongs to that list.

It is interesting that with the correction you almost put Novak's draw in Rome there: Monaco/Andreev than Almagro/Nalbandian then Federer than Nadal.

For an example of a hard draw on clay just look at Tipsarevic in Rome:
Gonzales, Soderling (ok could be harder here), Almagro/Nalbandian, Djokovic, Federer, Nadal

I hope Janko will get a break for this on RG :)

Grimjack
05-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Grass (general):
First round, Murray; Second round, Roddick; Third round, Ancic; Fourth round, Gasquet; Quarters, Djokovic; Semis, Nadal; Final, Federer.

LOL @ semis - Nadal.

If that's a round robin, and everyone is healthy, Nadal's lucky to go 1-5.

Aabye
05-03-2008, 06:56 PM
LOL @ semis - Nadal.

If that's a round robin, and everyone is healthy, Nadal's lucky to go 1-5.

Where do you come up with that logic and which 1 player would he beat? I can't argue it's wrong because Nadal hasn't gone up against any of them except Djokovic and Federer. Now granted, the Djokovic match isn't really a fair assessment of either player given the way the rain mucked the schedule. But I doubt anyone would be foolish enough to argue that Fed isn't the one of the greatest grasscourt players ever. Ancic and Gasquet were crushed, Roddick has slipped a little, and Murray hasn't gotten that far yet. Nadal is the only one in the last five years to push him to five sets (and push him hard) in the final. That's why he's in the semis.

my_forehand
05-05-2008, 02:47 AM
In door: Safin > Roddick > Davydenko > Nadal > Ferrer > Federer > Nalbandian!

Roddick behind Nadal and Davydenko? I might put him behind Ferrer, or ahead.


Grass (general):
First round, Murray; Second round, Roddick; Third round, Ancic; Fourth round, Gasquet; Quarters, Djokovic; Semis, Nadal; Final, Federer.

Oh please. Roddick, in the second round?! Ancic, Gasquet, hell, even Djokovic ahead of him? Today's Wimbledon grass I'd still put him above Ancic and Gasquet, maybe tied witj Djokovic (dunno :?).

The fast grass (Sampras' time) Roddick would probably be second...


No, I'm not obsessed with Roddick. But he has the best grass record behind Federer right now.

GOD_BLESS_RAFA
05-05-2008, 03:57 AM
Roddick behind Nadal and Davydenko? I might put him behind Ferrer, or ahead.



Oh please. Roddick, in the second round?! Ancic, Gasquet, hell, even Djokovic ahead of him? Today's Wimbledon grass I'd still put him above Ancic and Gasquet, maybe tied witj Djokovic (dunno :?).

The fast grass (Sampras' time) Roddick would probably be second...


No, I'm not obsessed with Roddick. But he has the best grass record behind Federer right now.
When was the last time Roddick played Federer in the final of a grass grand slam or a grass event? He was the best grass record behind Federer at that time not now :confused:

my_forehand
05-05-2008, 05:08 AM
When was the last time Roddick played Federer in the final of a grass grand slam or a grass event? He was the best grass record behind Federer at that time not now :confused:

There's like what? 4 grass tournaments every year? 2 are at the same time (roughly). Federer plays Halle. Roddick plays Queen's. How they would meet each other in the finals in a grass event confuses me.

The Wimbledon draw this year had Roddick in Federer's half - although they didn't play in the semi-finals due to a technicality ;)

He still has the best record behind Federer, regardless of the fact that Nadal's reached two consecutive finals in the last two years. Guess who did it in 2004 and 2005? Just 'cause that was earlier, you can't take credit from Roddick for reaching two consecutive Wimbledon finals.

If Nadal somehow beats Federer in the finals on Wimbledon this year (provided both get there) than I don't know who'll have the better record: Roddick's won Queen 4 times; reached 2 Wimby finals. That's 4 times he's won Queen's more than Nadal.

____

Please clarify this: "He was the best grass record behind Federer at that time not now"

To answer your question, 2005. By record, I mean tournaments, not win-loss percentage.

Roddick:
Grass Tournaments won: 4 (?)
Wimbledon finals: 2
Win-loss (grass - inclusive of Wimbledon): 57-11 = 84%
Win-loss (Wimbledon only): 27-7 = 79%

Nadal:
Grass Tournaments won: 0 (?)
Wimbledon finals: 2
Win-loss (Wimbledon only): 15-4 = 79%

They have the same win-loss percentage in Wimbledon, but Roddick's played 15 more matches.

Yeah. Roddick pretty much has a better record.

ximian
05-05-2008, 12:40 PM
How about Nalbandian's draw in Rome? Provided he keeps winning, it's Almagro, an in-form Gonzalez, then Djokovic, Federer, and finally Nadal. Holy crap. Nalandian FTW!

gj011
05-05-2008, 12:53 PM
How about Nalbandian's draw in Rome? Provided he keeps winning, it's Almagro, an in-form Gonzalez, then Djokovic, Federer, and finally Nadal. Holy crap. Nalandian FTW!

Novak's quarter is just crazy in Rome. Everybody in there have a tough draw. Djokovic, Nalbandian, Almagro, Andreev, Gonzales, Monaco, Tipsarevic, ...

r2473
05-05-2008, 01:49 PM
a "hard draw" looks like a "hook".

tacou
05-05-2008, 03:47 PM
I think before you can come up with a "hard draw" you need to consider if it's a seeded/unseeded player because some of these draws aren't possible; i.e. most of these would be playing a seeded player every round, so these draws would be for unseeded players.. meaning they aren't hard, they are damned impossible.