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Tennis and Tennis
05-05-2008, 05:30 PM
Gasquet has so much talent, but he doesn't have the mental toughness like other top players....what a shame.

West Coast Ace
05-05-2008, 05:56 PM
In his defense, the pressure from the French has been outrageous. He was on the cover of their version of Tennis Magazine - at the age of 12.

His record for '08 stands at 10-9. Maybe this is his strategy to sneak into Roland Garros with no pressure...


http://www.angrybackhand.com

miniRafa386
05-05-2008, 05:56 PM
i think he has as much talent as nadal, blake, anyone, hes just spoiled. but who can blame him? he was born into a wealthy family and raised thinking he's gonna be the next best tennis player.

Tempest344
05-05-2008, 06:58 PM
He is talented
but he has to back that up with hard work

so erratic

MajinX
05-05-2008, 06:58 PM
it also sucks that he got kicked out by someone not even in the top 100.. sometimes its a bit of wasted talent. if only his backhand was given toe roddick, that would make roddick quite powerful since ground strokes, esp the backhand is only average.

Dilettante
05-05-2008, 07:00 PM
You guys only call "talent" to beautiful strokes or what?

KFactor27
05-05-2008, 07:07 PM
This early exit is really disappointing. He needs to get his act together and start playing like the 9th ranked player in the world.

MajinX
05-05-2008, 07:07 PM
besides his backhand which is one of the best in the game, he has quite good court coverage and shot selection but sometimes he just doesnt live up to his rank and talk.

CanadianChic
05-05-2008, 07:08 PM
Gasquet has so much talent

Really? Where was this 'talent' today? I am disappointed that he allowed himself to be spanked like that. I thought he was more of a fighter - today he seemed tired and old.

cujays
05-05-2008, 07:28 PM
he played terrible today

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 07:36 PM
Really? Where was this 'talent' today? I am disappointed that he allowed himself to be spanked like that. I thought he was more of a fighter - today he seemed tired and old.

Where did you get the idea that he was a fighter? Was this from his recent Davis Cup match that he never played?

I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.

CanadianChic
05-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Where did you get the idea that he was a fighter? Was this from his recent Davis Cup match that he never played?

I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.

I assume/expect anyone at that level to be a fighter. Not necessarily a warrior like Nadal since he is of a very rare breed, but a little effort would be nice to see. Today's match was a huge disappointment and I lost respect for him. Players lose, I get that. But there is a difference between losing and giving up the match.

KRFLegal
05-05-2008, 07:46 PM
I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.

Sounds like Hilary talking about Obama :)

Gasguet perhaps just doesn't care anymore --- he no longer is living his own dream, but rather the dreams of others. Without motivation and focus to realize his own talent, Gasguet will continue his spiral downward.

I suspect that he isn't living the life that he wants, and these issues are killing his tennis motivation.

superstition
05-05-2008, 07:56 PM
He wears a backwards baseball cap. Enough said.

edberg505
05-05-2008, 08:14 PM
Where did you get the idea that he was a fighter? Was this from his recent Davis Cup match that he never played?

I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.

I think he gave everyone that impression when he fought a closely contested match against Lletyon Hewitt at the 06 US Open.

zagor
05-05-2008, 09:13 PM
I assume/expect anyone at that level to be a fighter. Not necessarily a warrior like Nadal since he is of a very rare breed, but a little effort would be nice to see. Today's match was a huge disappointment and I lost respect for him. Players lose, I get that. But there is a difference between losing and giving up the match.

I don't think warrior like Nadal is that rare in tennis or other pro sports in general,there are quite a few players with similar mental strength as him.Examples would be Federer(whose mental toughness is very underrated in this forum IMO,it is a very big part of his success),Sampras(won his last Wimbledon almost on one leg,that match against Corretja at USO '96,against Courier at AO '95 etc.),Chang,Roddick(who I feel is generally very underrated here),Hewitt in his prime,Guga,Muster,Connors,Borg etc.
I think people here credit too much of Nadal's success on his mental strength and don't realize how much of a talented shotmaker he really is,the angles he creates with his groundies,the sheer amount of pace and spin he gets,the things he does on the run etc. are amazing,he is also much better at the net then most people realize.On the topic,yeah,Gasquet was pathetic today but he did show mental strength in some of his matches(against Hewitt at USO 2006,against Roddick in Wimbledon when he came from two sets down)so I suposse there is some hope that he'll toughen up in the future.

flyer
05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
What does talent even mean, that he hits a nice shot from time to time and has good looking strokes, I don't think hes even as talented as most give him credit for, not compared to the other top players, hes a shot maker so when hes on he dangerous but when hes not hes easily beaten

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
I think he gave everyone that impression when he fought a closely contested match against Lletyon Hewitt at the 06 US Open.

I watched that one. It was a good match. He cramped up pretty badly. Still, one well fought defeat does not a champion make.

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 09:32 PM
What does talent even mean, that he hits a nice shot from time to time and has good looking strokes, I don't think hes even as talented as most give him credit for, not compared to the other top players, hes a shot maker so when hes on he dangerous but when hes not hes easily beaten

Don't be naive. You can look talent up in the dictionary if you want.

It means the game comes naturally to him. The point is that he would be "on" more often if he tried harder.

flyer
05-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Don't be naive. You can look talent up in the dictionary if you want.

It means the game comes naturally to him. The point is that he would be "on" more often if he tried harder.

ok but i think the game comes pretty naturally to anybody that can get inside the world's top 10, so tell me what he can do thats above and beyond the rest of the top 10....i think him having such a pretty game tricks people into thinking hes even more talented than he really is, i mean i could prolly name 10 players that have more game than gasquet

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 09:49 PM
Sure, there are guys who have more game because they try harder. Gasquet doesn't even try that hard yet still manages to be a top 10 player because of his talent. Understand?

Look, people think he's talented because he hits great shots with seemingly little effort. Guys who huff and puff and scramble their way to victories are considered to be less talented. Their work ethic rewards them with good results/ranking.

If Gasquet applied himself he could be challenging the top 3 because he's a natural ball striker and mover on the court. The same could be said for Murray and Baghdatis. All those guys seem to have mental issues.

flyer
05-05-2008, 10:22 PM
Sure, there are guys who have more game because they try harder. Gasquet doesn't even try that hard yet still manages to be a top 10 player because of his talent. Understand?

Look, people think he's talented because he hits great shots with seemingly little effort. Guys who huff and puff and scramble their way to victories are considered to be less talented. Their work ethic rewards them with good results/ranking.

If Gasquet applied himself he could be challenging the top 3 because he's a natural ball striker and mover on the court. The same could be said for Murray and Baghdatis. All those guys seem to have mental issues.

Murrays had injuries, as for the effort thing.....I think Verdasco, Berdych, perhaps Baghdatis, Nalbandian are all more talented and they do not try harder,
look I agree Gasquet is talented, but people talk about his talent like its on the level of the all time greats, i don't think it is, he only has one great stroke, they all looks pretty but are not very effective, hes a great ball striker but there is more to talent than just ball striking, thats the mistake i think a lot of people make

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 10:42 PM
Well, he's a great mover and ball striker in my opinion, and there's not much more to tennis than that.

I agree with what I believe you're trying to convey here: enough with talking about Gasquet's talent. I completely agree with this. Results are what matter when it comes down to it. Gasquet has had his ego stroked long enough.

"Today I played maybe my worst match of the year," Gasquet said. "After I started losing the first set I lost all my confidence and I was really lost on court. Anyone here could have beaten me today."

flyer
05-05-2008, 10:43 PM
Well, he's a great mover and ball striker in my opinion, and there's not much more to tennis than that.

I agree with what I believe you're trying to convey here: enough with talking about Gasquet's talent. I completely agree with this. Results are what matter when it comes down to it. Gasquet has had his ego stroked long enough.

"Today I played maybe my worst match of the year," Gasquet said. "After I started losing the first set I lost all my confidence and I was really lost on court. Anyone here could have beaten me today."

Ok good so we agree for the most part

Dilettante
05-05-2008, 11:09 PM
If Gasquet applied himself he could be challenging the top 3 because he's a natural ball striker and mover on the court. The same could be said for Murray and Baghdatis. All those guys seem to have mental issues.

You forgot something: Gasquet may be a natural striker and mover, but players like Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Nalbandian or even Ferrer have a big amount of different talents aside being themselves natural strokers and movers too.

Ross K
05-05-2008, 11:23 PM
Look and drool ppl!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTxX9n6CJgw

stormholloway
05-05-2008, 11:23 PM
Ferrer, in my opinion, is more of a workman. He has clawed his way through the rankings with hard work and determination. The other guys I agree about but they all have either a slam or multiple masters titles.

You listed guys that have already proven themselves. My whole point is that Gasquet has yet to do so.

crawl4
05-06-2008, 01:03 AM
I don't think warrior like Nadal is that rare in tennis or other pro sports in general,there are quite a few players with similar mental strength as him.Examples would be Federer(whose mental toughness is very underrated in this forum IMO,it is a very big part of his success),Sampras(won his last Wimbledon almost on one leg,that match against Corretja at USO '96,against Courier at AO '95 etc.),Chang,Roddick(who I feel is generally very underrated here),Hewitt in his prime,Guga,Muster,Connors,Borg etc.
I think people here credit too much of Nadal's success on his mental strength and don't realize how much of a talented shotmaker he really is,the angles he creates with his groundies,the sheer amount of pace and spin he gets,the things he does on the run etc. are amazing,he is also much better at the net then most people realize.On the topic,yeah,Gasquet was pathetic today but he did show mental strength in some of his matches(against Hewitt at USO 2006,against Roddick in Wimbledon when he came from two sets down)so I suposse there is some hope that he'll toughen up in the future.

people don't overrate nadals mental toughness..matches this year like when he was versing tsonga at indian wells and was down 5-3 and won and just now in monte carlo where for a number of matches he was trailing by more then a break in at least 3 of the matches if i can recall.

he is unique with this aspect but i do agree with you about his shots

heathenrider
05-06-2008, 01:38 AM
i think he has as much talent as nadal, blake, anyone, hes just spoiled. but who can blame him? he was born into a wealthy family and raised thinking he's gonna be the next best tennis player.

How could you possibly know about what gasquet's mentality is?

Buchhalter
05-06-2008, 07:22 AM
Maybe he has a talent and knack for losing to players he might beat, or for having a complete lack of motivation. Maybe he is a painter trapped in a tennis prodigies body?

BkK_b0y14
05-06-2008, 02:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHEBDiIdgA&feature=related

BeHappy
05-06-2008, 03:20 PM
gasquet has changed his backhand grip to a full eastern, from a semiwestern, and he can no longer handle the high ball.

BkK_b0y14
05-06-2008, 03:26 PM
im pretty sure he's always had an extreme eastern..

BeHappy
05-06-2008, 03:30 PM
im pretty sure he's always had an extreme eastern..

not any more, he seems to have changed to eastern, (BTW FYI full eastern=semiwestern on backhand side).

lambielspins
05-06-2008, 08:19 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again. Gasquet is only really a great backhand. That is it. He is so overrated it isnt even funny. His game is lacking other ways aside from his mental game. Mediocre serve and forehand for todays mens standards, compare his serve and forehand to Federer or Djokovic and you just laugh. A good net game but nothing special to the point he could rely on it to win him alot of matches. Pretty good mover and athlete, but clearly below the very best like Nadal, Federer, Hewitt in his prime, etc...in those categories. Return of serve not that great, not nearly as skilled in this area as the top dogs. What in his game outside his backhand is so great. Anyone???

As for his being top 10 despite his horrendous mental game, I wouldnt take that as showing he had the potential to be a #1 or even top 3 player if he had applied himself. Instead I take someone who is reliant almost totally on a great backhand, with such a horrible mental game being top 10 as maybe reflecting that what people like Five0 and urban were talking about regarding how weak the mens field is today had more truth to it then I realized at the time, since for a top 10 player to be that many light years weaker then the top 3 all things considered is almost scary.

lambielspins
05-06-2008, 08:23 PM
i think he has as much talent as nadal

A perfect example of the ridiculously overrated part.

Salsa_Lover
05-07-2008, 01:02 AM
Gasquet has the talent, he has the strokes, the game and the style to be among the great.

The problem with him is the excessive expectation and preassure the family, french press etc has put on him since he was 12.

He was doing well enough to be among the top 10, but everybody was telling him, "hey why are you not #1 yet ? You are baby federer, you should already be winning slam after slam by now !"

I think simply this is the main problem he has. He feels he is an underachiever and he is disappointing family, friends, nation etc, and this affects his motivation and game in general.

CanadianChic
05-07-2008, 01:49 AM
They are all under a tremendous amount of stress and have been for the majority of their lives. I imagine pro athletes are about one step shy of actors and singers when it comes to neurotic insecurities. The thing is, not all of them choke when it really matters...Gasquet has been choking lately, and early in the tournaments even.

tennis08tarheels
05-07-2008, 02:37 AM
If you saw his match with Roddick last year and you still think he has no mental fortitude, you're insane. There's something holding him back, but it's not that. That was the best comeback I've ever seen.

Gugafan
05-07-2008, 07:42 AM
He wears a backwards baseball cap. Enough said.

Hahahaha. That was hilarious. Hey comeon, Hewitt wears the cap backwards and he is a former world no 1.

I think Gasquets problem is he tends to be passive on hes forehand. Rolls it in abit like Andy Murray, and although he has a great backhand he struggles to hit high backhands. Nadal exposes this all the time, hence the one sided head to head. This is why you see Gasquet, soo often well behind the baseline soo the ball remains in his strikezone. On grass the ball stays low, which suits Gasquet.

stormholloway
05-07-2008, 09:27 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again. Gasquet is only really a great backhand. That is it. He is so overrated it isnt even funny. His game is lacking other ways aside from his mental game. Mediocre serve and forehand for todays mens standards, compare his serve and forehand to Federer or Djokovic and you just laugh. A good net game but nothing special to the point he could rely on it to win him alot of matches. Pretty good mover and athlete, but clearly below the very best like Nadal, Federer, Hewitt in his prime, etc...in those categories. Return of serve not that great, not nearly as skilled in this area as the top dogs. What in his game outside his backhand is so great. Anyone???

As for his being top 10 despite his horrendous mental game, I wouldnt take that as showing he had the potential to be a #1 or even top 3 player if he had applied himself. Instead I take someone who is reliant almost totally on a great backhand, with such a horrible mental game being top 10 as maybe reflecting that what people like Five0 and urban were talking about regarding how weak the mens field is today had more truth to it then I realized at the time, since for a top 10 player to be that many light years weaker then the top 3 all things considered is almost scary.

Well, those matches against Federer at Monte Carlo and Roddick at Wimbledon hint clearly that he has more than just a backhand. It's easy to harp on him now, as you're doing, because he is playing poorly. When he starts playing lights out you will of course be mysteriously absent from discussion.

93sq.
05-07-2008, 10:29 AM
He's overrated.Period.
He won't win anything

lambielspins
05-07-2008, 10:54 AM
Well, those matches against Federer at Monte Carlo and Roddick at Wimbledon hint clearly that he has more than just a backhand. It's easy to harp on him now, as you're doing, because he is playing poorly. When he starts playing lights out you will of course be mysteriously absent from discussion.

When he starts playing lights out!?!? ROTFL! When the heck has he ever been playing lights out. His biggest achievements by far are one single slam semifinal where he was spanked by Federer, and 2 Masters finals where he was also beaten pretty easily by Federer. That isnt playing lights out, playing lights out would be winning some significant tournaments or consistently making semis/finals for a period, or having a few wins strung together over the top dogs, which he has NEVER done. Even guys like Davydenko, Roddick, Nalbandian, have occasional periods of playing lights out, Gasquet never has. Those results I mentioned stand alot since they are very rare while being surrounded by only 3rd/4th round losses in slams and 2nd/3rd round losses in Masters events. His one win over Federer and even one win over Roddick stand out so much. So no I am not worried about what I would face if he suddenly started playing lights out tennis, he simply isnt capable of it.

His win over Roddick at Wimbledon? Even in that career highlight for him it showed mostly just an incredible backhand. What ratio of his winners were off the backhand that day, and anyone who understands Roddick's game realizes he is one of the easiest players out there to hit winners in a baseline rally or as a passing shot vs, but is so hard to beat mainly since his serve is so hard to return.

His win over Federer in Monte Carlo was the best match I have ever seen him play bare none. He has actually regressed since then and now has less ability even on his good days then he showed in that match. Even as it is Federer has won all 6 meetings since then so order has been set to what it should be there as well.

OK here is a very simple question for everyone. Is there any shot in his game outside the backhand that would even be rated top 20 in the game right now?

flyer
05-07-2008, 11:44 AM
NO HE DOESN"T!!! Im sick of hearing about how talented Gasquet is, hes not that talented, hes a shot maker with pretty strokes thats all he is. Berdych, Verdasco, Federer, Nadal, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Tsonga, Safin they are all more talented than Gasquet is...people talk about his talent like hes Borg, hes just like any other shot maker just he makes it look prettier, that doesn't mean hes talented

lambielspins
05-07-2008, 11:50 AM
NO HE DOESN"T!!! Im sick of hearing about how talented Gasquet is, hes not that talented, hes a shot maker with pretty strokes thats all he is. Berdych, Verdasco, Federer, Nadal, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Safin they are all more talented than Gasquet is...people talk about his talent like hes Borg, hes just like any other shot maker just he makes it look prettier, that doesn't mean hes talented

Totally agree. People overrate his talent significantly. It is because like you said his game looks so pretty and flashy. Guys coming up with incredible shots and gets with consistency and stability like Nadal are falsely labeled as just hard workers and overachivers since they make it look so easy. It is funny how being so up and down and producing your own potentialy brilliant tennis with more rarity like Gasquet or even Safin (although Safin is light years more talented then Gasquet still) automatically makes you potrayed as much more talented then they would be if they did it consistently.

Gasquetrules
05-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Gasquet has the talent, he has the strokes, the game and the style to be among the great.

The problem with him is the excessive expectation and preassure the family, french press etc has put on him since he was 12.

He was doing well enough to be among the top 10, but everybody was telling him, "hey why are you not #1 yet ? You are baby federer, you should already be winning slam after slam by now !"

I think simply this is the main problem he has. He feels he is an underachiever and he is disappointing family, friends, nation etc, and this affects his motivation and game in general.

I agree with your analysis completely. Gasquet has had tremendous expectation and pressure put upon him. It's taken all the joy out of the sport for him, and you have to love tennis -- win or lose -- to ever stick with it long enough to become a good player, much less to master the game and fulfill your own potential. Gasquet said he hasn't been enjoying the game lately, and it showed in his loss to Horna. Gasquet seemed to start going for deliberate errors after the bad ruling by the chair umpire robbed him of a game point in the second set. But even before that he looked much more like he was playing hardcourt tennis rather than a game for clay. He was going for quick winners, hitting the ball too hard most of the time. The few times he did slow down and rally with Horna, he usually won the point. This told me he could have easily beaten Horna if his head and heart had been into it. But it wasn't. I don't know where Gasquet's at right now, but it's not into professional tennis.

I think he should take a break from the game for awhile. Relax. Take the pressue off. Let the French press forget about him for awhile and find a new idol to fulfill their vicarious fantasies. Come back when he's ready to play the game because he actually enjoys it and wants to do it.

It's all rather strange, really. Despite repeated tough draws early in the year, he still had some very good wins over players he had never beaten before: Tursunov and Andreev come to mind. He had a good win over Soderling on a fast court -- not an easy thing for anyone to do. I felt he was making progress, despite not going that far in events. Look at his loss to Tsonga in the Australian Open. He played Tsonga a closer match than anyone except Djokovic. All of his early losses were tough three-setters to very good opponents. I thought he was playing well until Davis Cup came along in April, and then he showed poor form in his first match in Monte Carlo, despite winning it easily. So I don't know why the wheels came off his game when they did. I expected the results to come around as he began to get some more favorable draws.

Like Salsa Lover said, I suppose it was everyone demanding Gasquet start winning big NOW.

Gasquet should take a break. Forget the French Open, possibly Wimbledon. Come back to tennis when he wants to and on his own terms and in his own time.

stormholloway
05-07-2008, 06:25 PM
NO HE DOESN"T!!! Im sick of hearing about how talented Gasquet is, hes not that talented, hes a shot maker with pretty strokes thats all he is. Berdych, Verdasco, Federer, Nadal, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Tsonga, Safin they are all more talented than Gasquet is...people talk about his talent like hes Borg, hes just like any other shot maker just he makes it look prettier, that doesn't mean hes talented

Berdych, Verdasco, Baghdatis, Djokovic, and Tsonga can be removed from that list.

Vision84
05-07-2008, 06:28 PM
OK here is a very simple question for everyone. Is there any shot in his game outside the backhand that would even be rated top 20 in the game right now?

I would argue his volley and I am aware that the volley is less important in todays game than what it used to be.

flyer
05-07-2008, 06:42 PM
Berdych, Verdasco, Baghdatis, Djokovic, and Tsonga can be removed from that list.

Berdych is more solid of both wings and his forehand is more effective than Gasquets backhand, not to mention his serve is about 1 million times better and he moves just as well if not better

Verdasco is also as solid off both wings but his forehand is much more lethal than Gasquets backhand, hes a better ball striker than Gasquet

Baghdatis is also, again more solid off both wings and serves better

Djokovic although he doesn't have a beautiful game he constantly hits close to the baseline and the corners, and is much more solid off both wings and moves and serves better

Tsonga serves big and has a big more effective forehand with a consistent backhand

now you explain to me why Gasquet is more talented than these guys....and "the game comes natural to him" doesn't cut it, it comes natural to all of them

BkK_b0y14
05-07-2008, 07:08 PM
Berdych is more solid of both wings and his forehand is more effective than Gasquets backhand, not to mention his serve is about 1 million times better and he moves just as well if not better

Verdasco is also as solid off both wings but his forehand is much more lethal than Gasquets backhand, hes a better ball striker than Gasquet

Baghdatis is also, again more solid off both wings and serves better

Djokovic although he doesn't have a beautiful game he constantly hits close to the baseline and the corners, and is much more solid off both wings and moves and serves better

Tsonga serves big and has a big more effective forehand with a consistent backhand

now you explain to me why Gasquet is more talented than these guys....and "the game comes natural to him" doesn't cut it, it comes natural to all of them

Are you serious??? How can you compare someone's forehand to another's backhand??

His movement, volleys/net game, strategy/tactics (ability to move players around/playing smart), and variety are superior to those listed except maybe Tsonga if he always played like he did against Nadal in the AO.

Vision84
05-07-2008, 07:26 PM
Are you serious??? How can you compare someone's forehand to another's backhand??

His movement, volleys/net game, strategy/tactics (ability to move players around/playing smart), and variety are superior to those listed except maybe Tsonga if he always played like he did against Nadal in the AO.

Apart from maybe Djokovic I agree with the strategy. His volleys are easily the best in that group apart from maybe Tsonga. And yeah comparing forehand and backhand doesn't work.

stormholloway
05-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Berdych is more solid of both wings and his forehand is more effective than Gasquets backhand, not to mention his serve is about 1 million times better and he moves just as well if not better

Berdych moves better than Gasquet? What are you talking about?

Verdasco is also as solid off both wings but his forehand is much more lethal than Gasquets backhand, hes a better ball striker than Gasquet

Hmm. Gasquet owns Verdasco in the h2h, has several more titles, is three years younger, and has 20 ranking spots on Verdasco. Next.

Baghdatis is also, again more solid off both wings and serves better

More solid off the backhand wing? Doubtful. He has a great two hander but it's not better than Gasquet's backhand. Gasquet has better touch and feel, has a higher ranking, and more titles.

Djokovic although he doesn't have a beautiful game he constantly hits close to the baseline and the corners, and is much more solid off both wings and moves and serves better

You seemed to back away from this one a bit even though it's the easiest to argue. Djokovic is very talented and has huge wins. He seems to handle pressure well and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. He is more physically gifted but doesn't have near the touch, feel or creativity of Gasquet at his best, so I choose Gasquet for talent.

Tsonga serves big and has a big more effective forehand with a consistent backhand

His forehand looked good in Australia, but it's not that great. His volleys were outrageous in Australia, but it may have been a fluke. There's not much to say about Tsonga except "good job in Australia".

Gasquet is in the top 10 and isn't even that focused on his game. If he had the desire he could be top 5 easily.

flyer
05-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Are you serious??? How can you compare someone's forehand to another's backhand??

His movement, volleys/net game, strategy/tactics (ability to move players around/playing smart), and variety are superior to those listed except maybe Tsonga if he always played like he did against Nadal in the AO.

because its each players best shot....so in comparison to how they match up its reasonable to compare those strokes and how effective they are in relation to their game as a whole

lambielspins
05-07-2008, 07:39 PM
Berdych, Verdasco, Baghdatis, Djokovic, and Tsonga can be removed from that list.

Gasquet more talented then Djokovic?!? To anyone reading this a perfect example right there of how insanely O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D Gasquet is by many people.

flyer
05-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Berdych moves better than Gasquet? What are you talking about?



Hmm. Gasquet owns Verdasco in the h2h, has several more titles, is three years younger, and has 20 ranking spots on Verdasco. Next.



More solid off the backhand wing? Doubtful. He has a great two hander but it's not better than Gasquet's backhand. Gasquet has better touch and feel, has a higher ranking, and more titles.



You seemed to back away from this one a bit even though it's the easiest to argue. Djokovic is very talented and has huge wins. He seems to handle pressure well and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. He is more physically gifted but doesn't have near the touch, feel or creativity of Gasquet at his best, so I choose Gasquet for talent.



His forehand looked good in Australia, but it's not that great. His volleys were outrageous in Australia, but it may have been a fluke. There's not much to say about Tsonga except "good job in Australia".

Gasquet is in the top 10 and isn't even that focused on his game. If he had the desire he could be top 5 easily.

yes berdych does move better than gasquet....hes tall but he moves well for his height and has great reach because of his frame

verdasco is even more of a head case than gasquet but hes got more pure game, gasquet is just a shot maker as is verdasco

bags is also a shot maker but he moves better than gasquet and serves bigger and is another head case which explain the lower ranking a titles but hes more accomplished than gasquet in slams where greatness is truly measured, its not like anyone will say well gasquet was ranked in the top 10 in may 2008 ever, but they will say remember Baghdatis' run to the AO final

i backed off djokovic because thats self explanatory, hes more athletic and much more well rounded and does just about everything better than gasquet outside of the volley and gasquets backhand is slightly better

and as little as there is to say about tsonga ("good job in Australia") its more than gasquet has accomplished


lastly, im sorry man but the results speak for themselves, the guy hanst done anything that any other shot maker hasnt in the past, he just does it prettier so people think he must be better, but hes not

sargeinaz
05-07-2008, 07:45 PM
Talent means nothing if you dont win. I'm sure he would trade some of his talent for some bigger wins and/or titles.
________
ATIVAN REHAB DICUSSION (http://www.rehab-forum.com/ativan-rehab/)

lambielspins
05-07-2008, 07:57 PM
I dont agree at all that Berdych moves better then Gasquet. I do think Gasquet is the better mover. However he is more evenly balanced off the ground in that he is so solid and powerful off BOTH wings, not just the backhand. His serve and return of serve are both much stronger then Gasquet as well.

Baghdatis likewise is more balanced then Gasquet in that he is so solid off both wings, not just one side. He also returns better then Gasquet, and he serves and moves atleast as well.

Verdasco? Well he is a nut who tries for low percentage winners so I dont know how to evaluate them. I look at him as a waste of talent as well but in a totally different way. I wont even try to make the comparision.

Djokovic is the funniest one of all. Djokovic is vastly superior to Gasquet in every facet of the game other then backhand and volleying, and even there the two are pretty much equal. You cont compare Gasquet to Djokovic. Djokovic is far more talented, and gets far more out of his abilities too, so you combine the two and Gasquet will never be able to sniff Djokovic's jockstrap. Next.....

Tsonga again is another player more balanced as far as being able to hurt you off both wings, not just forehand or backhand, both forehand and backhand. His serve is a heck of alot better then Gasquet's. He even volleys better, despite this being an area Gasquet is considered strong in. He is atleast as athletic.

flyer
05-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Well, those matches against Federer at Monte Carlo and Roddick at Wimbledon hint clearly that he has more than just a backhand. It's easy to harp on him now, as you're doing, because he is playing poorly. When he starts playing lights out you will of course be mysteriously absent from discussion.

If you take any pro's best two matches of their career any pro is gonna look really, really darn great, thats why you look at the whole picture....his best matches, his worst and everything in between

Vision84
05-07-2008, 08:20 PM
If you take any pro's best two matches of their career any pro is gonna look really, really darn great, thats why you look at the whole picture....his best matches, his worst and everything in between

Not many players can lay claim to beating Federer on clay when his game is not off. And not many players can lay claim to beating Roddick on grass besides Murray and Federer.

lambielspins
05-07-2008, 08:22 PM
If you take any pro's best two matches of their career any pro is gonna look really, really darn great, thats why you look at the whole picture....his best matches, his worst and everything in between

His match against Federer in Monte Carlo in 2005 was by far the most impressed I have ever been by Gasquet. He actually showed a killer forehand and return of serve in that match, things he does not show these days. I actually thought he had alot of more ability and game then compared to what he has now back in 2005, in general. His ranking may have gone up but to me that is only showing that contrary to peoples beliefs his consistency and ability to maximize his potential has gotten alot better. His actual potential and skillset have regressed a great deal since 2005 IMO, and he no longer shows anywhere near the potential as a player he looked to have then.

His match against Roddick at Wimbledon was a great match for him in terms of his now more limited skillset as a player I guess. That match to me was brilliant only in the sense of two incomplete players executing so well at their own limited great skills as players. Roddick hitting tons of aces, and hitting the odd good forehand, while Gasquet hitting tons of backhand winners, and hitting the odd nice volley. Very one dimensional battle of Roddicks super serve vs Gasquets amazing backhand, and on most days Roddicks serve wins out, on that day it nearly was again in straight sets but in the end it was Gasquets backhand in 5. When you then compare the all around excellence of the incredible Federer-Nadal match where both guys were coming up with unreal winners off every shot in tennis, from every part of the court; then the Roddick serve vs Gasquet backhand battle does not even hold a candle.

BkK_b0y14
05-07-2008, 08:45 PM
because its each players best shot....so in comparison to how they match up its reasonable to compare those strokes and how effective they are in relation to their game as a whole

IMHO, I still think Gasquet's backhand would be superior to Baghdatis' and Berdych's forehand, but not Verdasco's.

Vlad
05-07-2008, 08:56 PM
It is pretty funny how some of you here compare certain shots of one player to some shots of another and make your conclusion that this certain player MUST be better than the other...


Just because Berdych serves and hits harder than Gasquet doesn't at all mean that he is a better player. What about consistency of shots? What about about ability to exploit your opponents weaknesses? There is so much more to the game than just forehand, backhand and serve.


Look at Roddick. Aside from his serve, what else does he have that is top 15 shots? And he is still very solid top 10.. and was in top since what seems like forever until last year or so. It is all about HOW you use your strength and how you able to hide your weak shots.

tennis08tarheels
05-07-2008, 08:56 PM
IMHO, I still think Gasquet's backhand would be superior to Baghdatis' and Berdych's forehand, but not Verdasco's.

Not sure which I would want, but Gasquet's backhand and Verdasco's forehand are, in my opinion, the best 2 shots in tennis.

Vlad
05-07-2008, 08:59 PM
His match against Federer in Monte Carlo in 2005 was by far the most impressed I have ever been by Gasquet. He actually showed a killer forehand and return of serve in that match, things he does not show these days. I actually thought he had alot of more ability and game then compared to what he has now back in 2005, in general. His ranking may have gone up but to me that is only showing that contrary to peoples beliefs his consistency and ability to maximize his potential has gotten alot better. His actual potential and skillset have regressed a great deal since 2005 IMO, and he no longer shows anywhere near the potential as a player he looked to have then.

His match against Roddick at Wimbledon was a great match for him in terms of his now more limited skillset as a player I guess. That match to me was brilliant only in the sense of two incomplete players executing so well at their own limited great skills as players. Roddick hitting tons of aces, and hitting the odd good forehand, while Gasquet hitting tons of backhand winners, and hitting the odd nice volley. Very one dimensional battle of Roddicks super serve vs Gasquets amazing backhand, and on most days Roddicks serve wins out, on that day it nearly was again in straight sets but in the end it was Gasquets backhand in 5. When you then compare the all around excellence of the incredible Federer-Nadal match where both guys were coming up with unreal winners off every shot in tennis, from every part of the court; then the Roddick serve vs Gasquet backhand battle does not even hold a candle.



Gasquet did not only hit tons of backhand winners in that match... maybe you forgot but he also out aced Roddick and hit more forehand winners.

BkK_b0y14
05-07-2008, 09:31 PM
It is pretty funny how some of you here compare certain shots of one player to some shots of another and make your conclusion that this certain player MUST be better than the other...


Just because Berdych serves and hits harder than Gasquet doesn't at all mean that he is a better player. What about consistency of shots? What about about ability to exploit your opponents weaknesses? There is so much more to the game than just forehand, backhand and serve.


Look at Roddick. Aside from his serve, what else does he have that is top 15 shots? And he is still very solid top 10.. and was in top since what seems like forever until last year or so. It is all about HOW you use your strength and how you able to hide your weak shots.

Yeah just like I was saying before that you can't really compare one stroke to another. But what I mean is that if Gasquet had a backhand to forehand baseline rally with Bags or Birdman, he would win.

stormholloway
05-07-2008, 09:40 PM
yes berdych does move better than gasquet....hes tall but he moves well for his height and has great reach because of his frame

Berdych moves better than Gasquet? Absolutely ridiculous.

verdasco is even more of a head case than gasquet but hes got more pure game, gasquet is just a shot maker as is verdasco

More pure game? What does that mean?

bags is also a shot maker but he moves better than gasquet and serves bigger and is another head case which explain the lower ranking a titles but hes more accomplished than gasquet in slams where greatness is truly measured, its not like anyone will say well gasquet was ranked in the top 10 in may 2008 ever, but they will say remember Baghdatis' run to the AO final

Greatness isn't measure anywhere but the slams? Sometimes people make great runs at slams. It happens, but he didn't win, and he has fewer singles titles than Gasquet.

What people remember doesn't mean squat. He didn't win the tournament.

and as little as there is to say about tsonga ("good job in Australia") its more than gasquet has accomplished

lastly, im sorry man but the results speak for themselves, the guy hanst done anything that any other shot maker hasnt in the past, he just does it prettier so people think he must be better, but hes not

Yet he still has more titles and a higher ranking than almost everybody you mentioned. You seem to miss that point. Tsonga has ZERO singles titles to his name. How is that more than Gasquet has accomplished?

You say the results speak for themselves but you list a bunch of guys who have done EVEN LESS than Gasquet. If you put it on a very basic level, he's number nine in the world, so he's better than all but eight players in the world.

thalivest
05-07-2008, 10:00 PM
For those of you pimping up Gasquet just based on barely holding a top 10 ranking, enjoy it while it lasts since after Wimbledon when he fails to defend his semifinal points he will be not even close to the top 10 any longer. That result is the only thing keeping him barely in that top 10.

ChiefAce
05-07-2008, 10:10 PM
His forehand is average for a top player, and his best results come on slow surfaces (Wimbledon included). He needs to work on his forehand if he wants to remain a top player.

stormholloway
05-07-2008, 10:16 PM
For those of you pimping up Gasquet just based on barely holding a top 10 ranking, enjoy it while it lasts since after Wimbledon when he fails to defend his semifinal points he will be not even close to the top 10 any longer. That result is the only thing keeping him barely in that top 10.

Perhaps, but you can say that about several of the players used in the above comparison.

Gasquet looks like hell right now so I don't expect much out of him this year at all, and I'm not a Gasquet super fan either. In fact, I oppose all of the pimping of Gasquet. I'm just giving credit where I think it's due. He's still number 3 of his generation. That's worth something.

I actually expect more from Murray. We'll see.

Gasquetrules
05-10-2008, 09:39 AM
Richard Gasquet is 2-0 against Berdych; he is 4-1 against Verdasco.

Gasquet and Baghdatis have never played each other.

Djokovic is a better player than Gasquet right now... I won't even argue against that. Not sure about their head-to-heads. But Gasquet did beat Djokovic in their last match in the Masters Series round robin play in Shanghai.

Verdasco used to have a real problem finishing off matches whenever things got to to crunch time. I watched him serve for the first set against Andy Roddick in the 2007 Davis Cup tie in Winston-Salem. Verdasco had outplayed Roddick in that set on a very fast court and then totally choked when it came time to finish off the set. Roddick realized that Verdasco didn't have the mental toughness to beat him, found his confidence and best form and then steam-rolled over Verdasco to win it in straight sets.

Verdasco played quite a few matches like that in the first half of 2007... but I'll have to give him credit. He obviously got some help on this mental part of his game and began playing much better in the second half of the year and has continued to show mental toughness in matches this year. As a result, his ranking has improved quite a bit over last year this time.

But there still isn't much debate about who has more tennis talent between Gasquet and Verdasco.

And speaking of choking, what big match was it last year that Berdych totally choked away? Semi-finals of Miami? A loss at Wimbledon? Or was it several important matches that he should have won but came up with very poor performances. That's why he's only flirted with the top ten over the last two seasons. He got sick and quit in one of those important matches. Totally inexplicable!

Ocean Drive
05-10-2008, 10:02 AM
He stands way too far back behind the baseline it is ridiculous.

93sq.
05-10-2008, 11:21 AM
You are still talking about a guy who will be remebered for winning a match with roddick at wimbledon!?

He's overrated...he's "nice" to watch...but with his mental attitude he wont win nothing...

...he's talented,you have to be blind or to ignore what tennis is to think he's not...but he plays hiding behind the baseline...what the ****!

Leublu tennis
05-10-2008, 12:11 PM
Richard Gasquet is 2-0 against Berdych; he is 4-1 against Verdasco.

Gasquet and Baghdatis have never played each other.

Djokovic is a better player than Gasquet right now... I won't even argue against that. Not sure about their head-to-heads. But Gasquet did beat Djokovic in their last match in the Masters Series round robin play in Shanghai.

Verdasco used to have a real problem finishing off matches whenever things got to to crunch time. I watched him serve for the first set against Andy Roddick in the 2007 Davis Cup tie in Winston-Salem. Verdasco had outplayed Roddick in that set on a very fast court and then totally choked when it came time to finish off the set. Roddick realized that Verdasco didn't have the mental toughness to beat him, found his confidence and best form and then steam-rolled over Verdasco to win it in straight sets.

Verdasco played quite a few matches like that in the first half of 2007... but I'll have to give him credit. He obviously got some help on this mental part of his game and began playing much better in the second half of the year and has continued to show mental toughness in matches this year. As a result, his ranking has improved quite a bit over last year this time.

But there still isn't much debate about who has more tennis talent between Gasquet and Verdasco.

And speaking of choking, what big match was it last year that Berdych totally choked away? Semi-finals of Miami? A loss at Wimbledon? Or was it several important matches that he should have won but came up with very poor performances. That's why he's only flirted with the top ten over the last two seasons. He got sick and quit in one of those important matches. Totally inexplicable!
Thank you for the nice analysis. Enjoyed reading it. Wish others, who know much more about tennis that I do, would write the same way.

anointedone
05-10-2008, 12:42 PM
He has replaced the now almost retired Safin as the new most overrated player in the game. I doubt he will ever match Safin's achievements though. The only slam event he has a hope or prayer of ever winning in the future is Wimbledon. He has no chance to ever win the Australian, French, or U.S Opens. Still the only way he wins Wimbledon in the distant future (and if it ever happens it wont be until atleast his mid 20s IMO) is if he improves both his game and mental side alot, in the event the haters were lucky and got right that Nadal burns out especialy young, if Djokovic never really masters grass close to how he plays on hard courts, and if no promising grass courters emerge in the future. Those are alot of things that need to be happen for him to win a Wimbledon, and that is the only slam he has a prayer to ever win.

Miami Tiburon
05-11-2008, 04:00 PM
I tell you what he should start wearing his hat forward or wear a bandana,He looks like Adam Sandler in Billy Madison kind of a stupid look to him.This may not help his erratic game but he will look better losing.

coloskier
05-12-2008, 08:12 AM
As good as his backhand is, his forehand is abysmal and prone to continuous errors if he isn't on his game. His forehand almost reminds me of Blake's when Blake is having a bad day and hitting everything long.

Tennis and Tennis
05-17-2008, 01:26 PM
Where did you get the idea that he was a fighter? Was this from his recent Davis Cup match that he never played?

I think you have it backwards. He has plenty of talent and no fight. There's no drive in the guy. He has no blue collar.

Agreed.......

rtyd1
05-18-2008, 11:08 AM
And now hes split with his coach

Gasquetrules
05-18-2008, 08:06 PM
I hadn't heard that Gasquet had split with Debliker. I don't fault Debliker for Gasquet's miserable year so far, but perhaps a coaching change will be a good thing for Richard. He seems to have fallen into a really bad -- and inexplicable -- funk. There seems to be no reason for him to be losing to guys like Horna and Seppi.

I checked Gasquet's head-to-head with Seppi before their match and felt surely he would win that one. He'd played Seppi once about two years ago and beat him easily, two and one, I believe. Although the match was played on a hard court, when you beat someone that easily, it should carry over to a different surface. Plus, Gasquet is a better player than he was two years ago -- or should be! And Seppi is a couple years older than Gasquet. So if Gasquet could squash the guy two years ago on hard, he should beat him in straights on clay. Gasquet can play on clay if he puts his mind to it. He beat Federer on clay and won a clay title. He even made it to the finals of Hamburg a couple of years ago.

But he lost to Seppi badly in straights. Maybe the right coach can get through to him and get him turned around.

mjweatherup
05-19-2008, 04:26 AM
Gasquet has so much talent, but he doesn't have the mental toughness like other top players....what a shame.

Talent?! He's ranked 9th in the world, I'm sure a few people have realised he has talent.

As for mental ability Gasquet has been going through a rough patch lately. The media have been very critical of him in recent weeks and he has lost confidence and evidently the drive to play.

Players cannot be on form every week of the season and Gasquet will be back at his best soon enough.

What about 2007 Wimbledon... 2 sets down and a break down in the third set against Roddick... Gasquet comes back to win the match.. How about that for 'mental toughness'?

coloskier
05-19-2008, 06:39 AM
Talent?! He's ranked 9th in the world, I'm sure a few people have realised he has talent.

As for mental ability Gasquet has been going through a rough patch lately. The media have been very critical of him in recent weeks and he has lost confidence and evidently the drive to play.

Players cannot be on form every week of the season and Gasquet will be back at his best soon enough.

What about 2007 Wimbledon... 2 sets down and a break down in the third set against Roddick... Gasquet comes back to win the match.. How about that for 'mental toughness'?

I guess that he used all of his mental toughness up in that match and he can't find any more.