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View Full Version : KLIPPERMATE USERS - Mine Bends the racquet slightly


M C
03-24-2004, 06:02 PM
My Klippermate seems to pull the racket down towards the tensioned string slightly. It seems that the turntable is not quite sturdy. Is this hurting frames that I string

David Pavlich
03-25-2004, 02:48 PM
Regardless of the stringer, there will be some frame flex. If you clamp your frame properly in your Klipper, you should have no problem.

There are certain frames such as the Head iS10/12 that recommend a stringer to drop the tension if the machine has a 2 point (like your Klipper) or a 4 point mounting system. However, these are rare. I started on a Klipper many moons ago. I never had a frame crack or distort and I used to string my son's Graphite II at 72 lbs.

David

drop shot
03-25-2004, 11:19 PM
I strung two identical brand new Head Ti.S6 racquets. One on a Klippermate and one on a Gamma 5003 with 6 point mounting. I measured the length of each racquet before and after. I also made absolutely sure that each racquet was properly mounted while stringing. After I strung my first Ti.s6, with the Klippermate. I thought it looked a little "squattier" (don't know if that is a word) Sure enough it was about 1/8 inch shorter than the unstrung Ti.s6. When I placed them one in front of the other the one strung with the Klippermate was also slightly wider in the head area. Not enough to be a major concern but enough to be noticed by someone who knows these racquets. After stringing the other Ti.s6 with the Gamma 5003 with 6 point mounting, it measured the exact same as before I had strung it. So yes I would have to say that the Klipper will distort the framed when stringing the mains. The good news is that when the strings were cut out, the racquet went back to it's original length. The people at Klipper once told me that when using the Klipper most of the distortion will correct itself when stringing the crosses. All in all, it does distort some as evidenced by the measurements. The one strung with the Gamma showed no noticeable distortion. Maybe someone else could shed some more light on the subject. It seems that if the frame isn't allowed to distort when being held with the 6 pt mounting, it has to give somewhere else maybe?

Deuce
03-26-2004, 12:33 AM
Drop Shot - I assume both racquets were strung at the same tension with the same string?

I think you're jumping to a conclusion a little too hastily. Remember, arguably the most highly regarded machine of all time (the Prince/Ektelon Neos 1000) has a 2 point mounting system.

In order for your experiment to be conclusive (or the closest thing to it), you should reverse the process. That is, the racquet that was strung on the Klipper should be strung on the Gamma, and vice versa. This way, you'd be able to tell if perhaps one frame is structurally a little weaker than the other. If the same result occurs, it could mean only that the Klipper pulls a higher relative tension than the Gamma - which would mean that at least one (and possibly both) of the machines is not pulling the true tension indicated.

SunDog
03-26-2004, 05:34 AM
Distortion is not merely a function of how many points the mounting system consists - but in fact it is a combination of the overall design of the mounting system, the materials used in construction of the mounting system, and the quality of machining the mounting surfaces and hold down mechanisms. If you want to observe the phenomena on your machine during the stringing process - try this:

With the racquet firmly mounted and prepared for strinnging, tie a peice of string or twine (not tennis string - more like kite string or even dental floss) taughtly between the mounting posts as close to the racquet as possible. Observe as you proceed to tension the mains that the string dips. If by the time you tension the crosses, the string does not return to it's original position, then the machine mounts have moved or the turntable has flexed, and chances are your frame is distorted some.

There was an article in racquettech a couple of years ago that described the dangers of distortion and I believe how much tolerance the racquet manufacturers design into their frames. If anyone here has that issue - it may be helpful.

drop shot
03-26-2004, 10:31 PM
I did string with the same tension and string. The distortion with the Klipper as well as the Neos is noticeable as with any 2 point mounting system. The reason being that when the Neos and the Klippermate came out there were no Ti.s6's or Tis7's. These racquets are extremely lightweight. More so that any other racquet on the market. There are a few Wilsons and maybe a Dunlop that might be close to their weight. I discussed this with the pro at my club when the Head rep was in and they both were aware or the Ti.s6's and 7's shortening a little in length when stringing on a 2 point machine. The pro told me that it was almost inevitable because 65 lbs on the mains with such a lightweight racquet will almosty surely creat so much force that the racquet will have to give. I am not saying that this is THE final answer. I would love to hear others opinions who have strung a Ti.s6 or a TYi.s7 on a 2 point mounting system machine and had no measureable distortion.

Steve Huff
03-28-2004, 08:17 PM
That pulling to the side when you tension -- I know exactly what you're talking about. One of my friends kid went off to college, so he bought a Klippermate. I helped him learn to string on it. I couldn't believe how much tot he side the racket was pulled, almost as if the center post that holds the mounting assembly was bending. It looked as if the frame was getting bent all out of shape. I rechecked the mounting arms etc to make sure they were tight, rechecked how he mounted the frame etc. and it wasn't the procedure. I had an old ATS Superstringer (1979, made by Court & Slope) that also had some flex in the horizontal mounting bar. They've redesigned that part since then, so I'd hope that it's stronger now. It was particularly noticable stringing old Prince Aluminum rackets. They would become noticably more "squatty" or round. I used a leather belt that had holes all the way round it to force around the racket's head so as to keep the sides from bowing outward. After the top half of the crosses were strung, I'd work the belt off toward the handle.

gmlasam
02-13-2005, 07:34 PM
Dropshot,

The Head Ti.S6 is too large for the Killpermate. I believe the largest head size the Killpermate can mount is 110, as opposed to 115. The mounting plates cannot hold such head size, and perhaps is what causing the distortion. It is not mounting properly/securely.

Also, there is no way the Ti. S7 can be properly strung on a klippermate or any stringer for that matter without some kind of special adapter for the throat area. The S7 has a fan string pattern and the klippermate's mounting plates are not designed to properly secure such throat shape of the S7.

http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/tis7.jpg

I have used the Klippermate for about 8 years and yet to see any deformed racquets strung with it.

Matt Choi
02-13-2005, 08:40 PM
I've ruined few Prestige Classics stringing on this Klipper. My Prestiges looked like Yonex after stringing. I think it has to do with the weak turn table or turn pole, rather than how many mounting system it has. I think Klippermate would be a solid machine if they beefed up the turn table.

gmlasam
02-13-2005, 08:49 PM
I've ruined few Prestige Classics stringing on this Klipper. My Prestiges looked like Yonex after stringing. I think it has to do with the weak turn table or turn pole, rather than how many mounting system it has. I think Klippermate would be a solid machine if they beefed up the turn table.
It could also be how the racquet was mounted, stringing over the recommended tension, or stringing the racquet from throat to top(not stringing ATW, and putting stress on the top loop of the racquet)

Matt Choi
02-13-2005, 10:04 PM
Racquet mounted properly, Racquet strung proerly, strung at recommend 58lb manufacturers maximum tension, never used ATW, yet it still made made PC look like Yonex. You must be a really good stringer.

gmlasam
02-13-2005, 10:49 PM
Racquet mounted properly, Racquet strung proerly, strung at recommend 58lb manufacturers maximum tension, never used ATW, yet it still made made PC look like Yonex. You must be a really good stringer.
I've strung my PC all the time even the same tension as you with the klippermate. Does my PC look like a yonex? ;)

http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/prestigepog.jpg

Bama'sBest
02-14-2005, 04:25 AM
I'm envious, gmlasam, seriously. I loved my Klipper and if not for the distortion, I would've never said goodbye. Wonder why the different experiences?

SW Stringer
02-14-2005, 09:39 AM
MC says: "My Klippermate seems to pull the racket down towards the tensioned string slightly. It seems that the turntable is not quite sturdy. Is this hurting frames that I string"

Steve Huff says: "That pulling to the side when you tension -- I know exactly what you're talking about."

The horizontal turntable piece is a sixteen inch long by one inch square steel bar stock - you'd need a laser interferometer to measure any flex even with 1000 pounds applied to the vertical frame mount arms. The vertical frame mount arms are 5/8 inch thich by 1 3/4 inch wide by 5 1/2 inch high steel bar stock also - no flex here either. There IS tolerance and a chamfer built into the 1/8 inch deep by 1.018" wide slots milled into the vertical frame mounts that allows the mounts to EASILY slide on the 1 inch square mounting bar before clamping down with the U bolts. That chamfer and tolerance of 18 thousandths of an inch over the 1 3/4 inch width of the frame mount arm will allow the top of the arm to "rock" or "tilt" back and forth approximately 1/8 inch between two stable positions (where steel meets steel). To preclude any shifting of the arms during tensionsing, one must insure that the "rock" or "tilt" of the vertical frame mount bars is "toward" the opposite frame mount before tightening the wing nuts on the U-bolt. NOT insuring the "proper tilt" could result in a shorter racquet even when the racquet appears to be properly mounted flush with the frame plate shoulders.

The problem that Steve Huff and MC noticed was the tilt of the whole turntable assembly on the mounting stud. The mounting stud is bolted to the base which is basically a formed and reinforced piece of 0.08 inch sheet steel. The flexing of the base with the applied loads during tensioning may appear alarming but it has no effect on the finished product and is actually the result of solid engineering design trade-offs. The Klippermate was designed to be portable. The beef (and hence the weight) was put into the turntable and support arms (over nine pounds) where it's absolutely needed. Additional steel (and weight) in the base (to reduce flex) detracts from the marketing goal of portability and adds nothing to the functionality of the machine.

So, when's the last time you saw someone pull a Serrano out of a 16" toolbox?

Matt Choi
02-14-2005, 01:38 PM
gmlasam, maybe it's just my bad eye sight, but I see clear distortion on the PC. That POG doesn't look so healthy either IMHO.

gmlasam
02-14-2005, 03:33 PM
gmlasam, maybe it's just my bad eye sight, but I see clear distortion on the PC. That POG doesn't look so healthy either IMHO.
Well..lets compare. Would you post a pic of your PC or any racquets you have strung with the Klippermate?

Matt Choi
02-14-2005, 04:17 PM
gmlasam, unfortunately I got rid of all the distorted frames on ****. I've owned about 6 of these racquets, and 2 were distorted stringing on Klip and E-stringer. Most people do not care about the slight distortion. I on the other hand, might be slightly obsessed. lol. Distortion on your frame is clear, but minute. You'll see it better after several string jobs. Thanks for the nice pics by the way.

gmlasam
02-14-2005, 04:30 PM
There are no distortions from what I see, at least not a very distinct distortion that is far from its unstrung shape. Of course, all strung racquets will have a slight distortion due to the stringing tension. This is normal, but the discussion in this thread from what I understand is the distortion that is out of normal.

You described your PC as having a head shape that of a Yonex, almost a box shape after it was strung with the klippermate. That is not normal indeed.

Here are some pics I just took of an unused, unstrung POG compared with a heavily used POG, 80's model. Does the strung POG look much different from an unstrung newer POG? Does the head shape look closer to the Yonex RD-7?

I can say if there is a distortion on the strung pog, then it is within norm due to the tensioning of the strings.

http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/klippog1.jpg

http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/klippog2.jpg

gmlasam
02-14-2005, 04:30 PM
http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/klippog3.jpg

http://www.csun.edu/~aml45386/klippog4.jpg

Matt Choi
02-14-2005, 04:48 PM
Dang it!! I wish I had a digicam. lol. good pics!!

gmlasam
02-14-2005, 04:55 PM
Dang it!! I wish I had a digicam. lol. good pics!!
Hhahaha!! Thanks!!

drop shot
02-14-2005, 07:57 PM
The pic of the Head Ti.s7 CLEARLY show distortion. The Ti.s7 in the pic is shaped like a light bulb.

gmlasam
02-14-2005, 09:30 PM
The pic of the Head Ti.s7 CLEARLY show distortion. The Ti.s7 in the pic is shaped like a light bulb.
Drop shot,
Perhaps, you have overlooked what I typed above the pic of the Ti.S7.
Dropshot,

The Head Ti.S6 is too large for the Killpermate. I believe the largest head size the Killpermate can mount is 110, as opposed to 115. The mounting plates cannot hold such head size, and perhaps is what causing the distortion. It is not mounting properly/securely.

Also, there is no way the Ti. S7 can be properly strung on a klippermate or any stringer for that matter without some kind of special adapter for the throat area. The S7 has a fan string pattern and the klippermate's mounting plates are not designed to properly secure such throat shape of the S7.

For the record, the Ti.s7 was not strung on a klippermate ;)

drop shot
02-15-2005, 12:00 AM
Sorry, my bad. I do know that my doubles partner had one strung on a Prince Neos and got the same results. His was shaped like a lightbulb. There werent any problems with the mounting or anything either. We put the strung one next to an unstrung model and there was a noticeable difference. All I was saying was that it doesnt matter what you do, a Head Ti.s6 or Ti.s7 strung on a 2 point mounting system will distort some. Actually, not just a little but enough so that it changes the shape of the racquet. I have seen Ti.s7's strung on a 6 point mounting system that have the same shape although not quite as drastic. Its all because of the super lightweight material used in those frames. Most stringing machine designs have been around long before the Tis7 models came out in the mid to late 90's. Thye probably never envisioned that frames would be made from such a lightweight material. Having said that, 90% of the frames I string could be done on a 2 point just fine.