How long did it take you to move up in the NTRP?

[BOShappyplayer]

First time poster.

I suspect that I'm probably older than the majority of the posters here, but I love tennis so I figure this is as good a place to post my questions! :)

I'm in my mid-20s (female), and I just started taking tennis clinic to work on techniques (and not to pick up bad habits). I have limited prior experience in tennis, with a short stint on HS JV tennis team which I quit for various reasons (not that I was hitting correctly). I pursued other sports instead, and haven't picked up tennis racket since then...until this year (Better late than never, though!)

I'm fairly athletic and have relatively good endurance (and can run the court quite well), so that's the main advantage I have (and that I can't get enough of tennis -shhh!). :razz:

I was given an NTRP rating of 1.5 when I signed up. Nothing to be ashamed of; I knew I needed work. I've had a few sessions so far, working on drills and basic techniques, and I think I'm picking things up quickly. My instructor commented that I have a very solid 2hbh and is in the advanced beginners group, but I still need a lot of work on my forehand and footwork and serving (I'm struggling with it a bit - my serves are flat).

I know I still have a lot of work cut out for me, but my short term goal is to reach at least a NTRP rating of 3 so that I can join leagues.

So my questions are:

1) Do most of you here (especially those out of college) play in leagues and do you find that it helps to improve your skills?


2) How often do you practice? (I know the NTRP is not nearly as important as picking up the right skills, but at the moment, I need to set a lofty goal since I'd like to join a league)

3) Who do you play against? How do you find partners at the same level?

4) Aside from practice, did some of you go to camps to improve your skills? And how useful do you find them to be, in terms of how much improvement you experienced?

I look forward to reading your responses. Thanks! :)

[Essential Tennis]

It's great to read from somebody your age (no you're not old, heh) who's just starting tennis for the first time and has so much enthusiasm for it. Keep up the great attitude and hard work ethic and I'm sure you'll improve quickly.

1) Hopefully you have the means to fund some kind of club membership. Your best bet is going to be the clinics you're doing now and a private lesson per week from a good teacher too if you can afford it. Playing in a league is great for practicing what you've learned in terms of technique and skills, but moving up in level simply by playing matches against similarly skilled players will be a tall order. I'm not saying league play isn't good, its essential to get out and actually compete as well. But if you're going to take your improvement seriously you need personal attention to improve your technique as quickly as possible.

2) If you did one clinic per week, and one private per week, another day of practice with a similarly skilled player would be great. More would be even better, but those three things per week would be sufficient to improve steadily. If you're a member of a club see if they have ball machine and hitting wall as well so you can practice without a partner as well.

I currently teach 40+ hours of lessons per week.....and I'm lucky to actually hit once per week, heh.

3) Again a reason to join a club if you haven't already. If you're not able to join a club, there are online listings of tennis partners available. I've seen people advertise on craigslist etc as well.

4) A clinic, private, and separate practice per week will improve you quickly right now. If you have the financial means to go away to a weekend/week camp that would be great, but its not necessary for what you're looking to accomplish.

Best of luck to you, keep working hard. There is a link to my free blog and podcast below if you're interested in any online instruction.


*edit*

To answer the question posed in your title, I started playing when I was 10 or 11, and at 18 was given a 5.0 rating. I was always very very focused as a junior, I found a pro that I clicked with in terms of teaching/learning style and stuck with him for every private lesson I ever took. I worked extremely hard and was respectful to my teachers, if you do the same and have some athletic ability you can advance quickly.

If you're a reasonably good athlete, stick with it consistently, and continue to get good instruction a 4.0 level is definitely attainable. If you're a better than average athlete the clinics and practicing by itself will probably get you to a 4.0 level without any private instruction, with private instruction above that level would definitely be possible. Either way be prepared to have a long term mind set and keep it at week after week.

[Cindysphinx]

I feel confident that you're a good deal younger than many of the league players, so you have that going for you, for sure!

I first picked up a racket at age 43 in October 2004, just to see if I'd like tennis. Took a (lame) 1 hour a week beginner drill class, 1 instructor, 1 court, 8 students. Loved it, so switched to a longer drill class (2 whole hours!), 4 students and one pro per court.

Jumped into league play in April 2005 as a 2.5. Was shocked -- *shocked* I tell ya -- that my little push strokes didn't hold up at all in match play. Lost my early doubles matches, but won most of my singles matches and got the hang of doubles and so became a computer-rated 3.0.

Messed up my knee in summer 2005, had surgery, came back in early 2006 to the same old 2-hour drill classes. Having cleaned up at 2.5 singles, I figured I would soon be dominating 3.0s. Nope. Couldn't win a single 3.0 match in 2006. Went 0-5, including a Severe Spanking in singles where I simply could not sustain a rally due to my complete absence of technique.

Got a pro in summer 2006, vowing never again would I be helpless in my matches. Worked with him in private or semi-private lessons through fall/winter of 2006. Got much better. Won most 3.0 matches in spring 2007 and was competitive in some 3.5 matches. Got bumped to 3.5 in November 2007.

So here we are. Computer-rated 3.5, probably middle of the pack given my .500 record for 2008. Still, I am really enjoying having a prayer of playing well when I take the court and pulling off the occasional upset. Continuing with the private lessons. Goal is to become a top 3.5 playing 7.0 and 8.0 mixed. It's probably not realistic to go to 4.0 at my age (plus the playing opportunities for a 4.0 are much diminished).

Then again, maybe if I can square away my footwork and stop freaking out when presented with a tough mid-court ball . . . anything's possible!

[raiden031]

The short answer to the OP: Way too long and I haven't moved very far

When I started playing I would say I was a low 3.0 after a month of playing because I was already athletic, had decent hand-eye coordination, and could generate groundstrokes that somewhat resembled advanced players by naturally choosing a semi-western grip and hitting with lots of topspin. However for the next 5 years I probably became a solid 3.0 at best because I didn't work to improve my game and so I neglected things like volley and serves. Then I stopped playing for about 2 years completely until summer 2006.

I then started playing again and discovered USTA (never heard of them before this) and started playing with some of the league players during the off season. I got stomped alot and decided to take my game seriously. Over the next 1 1/2 years or so I started working hard and would say my performance has fluctuated between strong 3.0 and strong 3.5, and I'd say on average right now my game is a mid-3.5. I have spent like 600 hours practicing tennis over this period of time and that is all I have to show for it. Granted I am mostly self-taught so I have made some mistakes and missed out on some things I could've improved, but I know I'm still getting better as people who beat me previously are now losing to me one at a time.

I think there are two ways to approach your development. You can either use strategies and techniques that are effective against people of your current skill level but may not be effective at higher levels, or you can use strategies and techniques that are known to be effective at higher levels but you are not skilled enough to execute right now, so you lose alot of matches to opponents you could beat if you resorted to more rudimentary tactics. I have chosen the ladder development method because you can't be an advanced player unless you learn to play like an advanced player. You don't become an advanced player by just getting better at playing the same game. You have to constantly explore different parts of your game.

[GuyClinch]

In a nutshell..

It's pretty easy to get to the 3.5 levels but its pretty hard to get beyond that. Granted I play only a few hours a week but I been stuck there for ages now. On the flipside I have it pretty much ingrained. I took the whole winter off and I am the exact same player I was before I quit. <g>

Becoming a "good" tennis player at 4.0 and above takes alot of practice or some talent I think. For the less talented player I think it takes expert instruction which is honestly hard to come by and expensive.

And when I talk about ratings - I am talked about league tested players not the local joe who CLAIMS to be a 4.0 or 5.0.. I think 4.0 is the magic rating for most people. Guys who are legit 4.0 are guys who are flat out good at tennis. That number might be higher with women - as I find the female numbers are bit inflated (no offense). A good 3.5 man can usually beat a league 4.0 women.

Pete

[Tennisman912]

BOShappyplayer,

First of all, you are still young and have plenty of time to advance if that is your desire. Being athletic is certainly an asset. You can easily reach a 3.0 level in six months or so and a 3.5 in another six months to a year if you work hard at your game. It gets much harder from there.

As others have said, join a tennis club and take some lessons. Make sure your strokes are correct now so you don't have to make major changes later. One of the limiting factors for most is they have bad habits and/or technique and won't fix it either because they are too lazy to put in the time, or worse think they don't have and technique problems.

Play in the social mixers at your local clubs and meet people. You usually don't even need to be a member at many clubs. Play USTA if you can. Talk to people at work and see who plays. Just play as much as you can. Work on getting the proper technique first and worry about winning second. It will come with time I promise you. After you get a little better, try to play with juniors. They are under used by adults and finding some to hit with shouldn't be too hard, especially as you improve. Most parents would be happy to find someone for junior to hit with.

To meet my time line, you should try to play 3-4 days a week if you can. More is always better unless you are an exceptional athlete as it will take time to learn all the little details which matter, especially in real matches.

I am an ex college player and play with pretty much anyone I come in contact with. From 2.5 to 6.0, elite juniors to other former college players. Hit with local High School and college players too. You will not hit more balls in a short period of time than playing with very good juniors. Just remember, no matter your level or there's, you can always practice something no matter who you are playing with. The process is never ending.

Good luck to you

TM

[Essential Tennis]

You don't become an advanced player by just getting better at playing the same game. You have to constantly explore different parts of your game.

very well said. It's not possible to move up in level without changing something. Thats why private lessons by a good teacher are so valuable if they can be afforded, they have the road map there for you, instead of trial and error on your own.

[Cindysphinx]

What Raiden said, big time.

Here's one more tip:

Whatever you do, Use the correct grips for every shot right now. That's continental for serving and volleys, especially. It will feel awkward at first, but it will pay huge dividends later on, and you won't have to spend a bunch of time making the switch later.

I wish I had $1 for every 3.5 female player using the wrong grip for serving and for volleying. Oh, what a dead-end road that is! All they can do is push their second serve and swat at volleys. Not pretty, and not effective.

And um . . .

:lowers voice:

Please, I beg of you. Do not use two hands to volley. Learn a 1H volley. The biggest favor any pro ever did for me is the guy who stopped me from hitting a 2HBH volley.

[Essential Tennis]

I wish I had $1 for every 3.5 female player using the wrong grip for serving and for volleying. Oh, what a dead-end road that is! All they can do is push their second serve and swat at volleys. Not pretty, and not effective.

Amen to that as well

[nytennisaddict]

I'm currently a 4.5, and if I had to "build myself up from scratch" I would:

* Take lessons from a pro: schedule 1 lesson every 1-2 weeks (finances permitting). I would choose a pro that seemed busy/difficult to schedule (ie. he's busy for a reason), and is often working with good (tournament) juniors/adults. Discuss a lesson plan, and road map. I'll be investing alot of time/money with this pro, so I'd make sure they know where I want to go, so they can make the best assessment of how to get there. Make sure to take a "home work assignment" after every lesson (maybe 1 thing to practice per stroke - in the beginning it could be as simple as grip).

* Practice/master my home work assignment 2 weeks, either by finding a partner as good/better, wall, or ball machine. I'd aim to play at least an hour a day. I'd be looking to hit as many balls as I can (including wide balls, out balls, etc..!) It'd be interesting to note how many balls an avg tounament jr (ie. destined for a D1 school) needed to hit to get to where the are (1M balls? ) - with training.

* I would *not* be trying to play sets for at least the first 4-6mos. I'd be mainly concerning myself with getting my strokes down. I'd be doing everything I can to practice my home work assignment with perfect form (regardless of results). If did need to play sets I would be playing them with the strokes/technique I'm trying to master regardless of whether I won or lost... in the beginning I predict I'd lose alot of matches. You'll find that some folks can get to the 3.0/3.5 level pretty quickly with poor technique (ie. choppy/pushy/blocky strokes), but they won't progress much further than that... I'm aiming for 4.0+.

* I'd supplement my lessons by buying tennis books and start reading them voraciously (or subscribe to something like tennisone.com). I've found that 2 books/pros may say the same thing, but somehow in the 2nd book the way it was described just clicked better. I've also noticed books and teaching pros have different styles of describing the same thing, ie. some are very scientific, and maybe break down the mechanics of a stroke, while others are feel oriented and may describe how somethign feels.... in general feeding myself information will give me better chances to "get it".

* I'd starting supplementing my tennis with weight training/conditioning. It would help me practice harder/longer, and more likely to stay injury free. Now that I think I've got a solid understanding of how to all my strokes, I've been spending most of my time figuring out how to get into position better/faster, to hit them - and that's all about movement/conditioning/etc... In general I'm trying to 1) expand my strike zone 2) improve my movement to bring my strike zone to the ball

* I'd start a log of things I'd learn (ie. what works, what doesn't work) along the way... there's a lot of little things I've needed to learn, and sometimes (always) I forget.

I'm speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could build myself from scratch to the 4.0 level within 1 year if I followed this plan. Obviously results will vary (ie. what other sports experience do you have - knowing another sport is like knowing another language... it gives your body a "vocabulary" of movement to work from... what your current conditioning level is... if I weighed 300lbs, I'd probably have trouble practicing even 15 min a day.. and of course there's that "talent" thing - but I'm a bit more optimistic, and think this stuff can be learned through practice/repitition/lessons/etc.. to at least the 4.0 level without raw talent).

I have a friend that built herself to the 4.0+ level from scratch in 2-3 years. She did have an athletic background (gymnastics I think), but she also had 2 kids to care for. But she definitely made time (similar to above) play/practice the right way from the beginning.... and now she's a solid 4.5 who's also teaching :)

Anyway, my $0.02, and good luck.

[nytennisaddict]

Becoming a "good" tennis player at 4.0 and above takes alot of practice or some talent I think. For the less talented player I think it takes expert instruction which is honestly hard to come by and expensive.
Pete

I have to respectfully disagree about the talent part :) Talent will certainly accelerate learning... but I think more hard work/repetition will overcome lack of talent (at least to the 4.0 level). Instruction is definitely key, but I don't think it's that hard to come by (ie. there are so many books, online sites, dvd's, etc...), but you may need to invest time (vs. money) to find/digest the material if it's not in your means to get "quick" expert instruction from a good teaching pro.

[NotAtTheNet]

Don't worry, then i'm an old timer on here too (mid 20's)


1) Do most of you here (especially those out of college) play in leagues and do you find that it helps to improve your skills?


1. Yes, I play in an league thats organized online, I find that it doesn't necessarily imporve my groundstrokes like drilling on a ball machine does, but match play definitely improves on the mental aspect of the game and confidence in my strokes. Although someone on here made a good point that in rallying, the other guy isn't trying to put the ball away like in real matches, so match play should also help with hitting off balance and running shots as well. I can rally just fine with guys 4.5 and up, but I can be beat by a 2.0 pusher who puts me out of position if I'm not actively trying to control the point. Plus whats the point of having great strokes if you can't win?


2) How often do you practice? (I know the NTRP is not nearly as important as picking up the right skills, but at the moment, I need to set a lofty goal since I'd like to join a league)

2. I'm on the courts 4-5 times a week, usually 3 of those with an actual person, the rest against a wall or renting a ball machine (if i didn't waste too much on gas during the week) bc everyone i know is lazy. During practice and rallying sessions I video tape my strokes so I can critique myself and have the great people here on the board (bungalo, smooth and others just to name a few) give me their 2 cents as well.


3) Who do you play against? How do you find partners at the same level?

3. I'd love to find a good answer for practice partners, but aside from my old man who can make it out only every 2 weeks due to tennis elbow, i've tried posting on craigslist (creeps), tennisopolis (flakes), everything... I got lucky and found a great practice partner in an enthusiastic pusher who i found on myspace of all places...


4) Aside from practice, did some of you go to camps to improve your skills? And how useful do you find them to be, in terms of how much improvement you experienced?

4. I played tennis from middle school to high school (low seed varsity) and early college (intramurals), but then stopped for about 4 years. I've pretty much forgot everything but thanks to the people here on the board, and some instructionals I found on youtube, I've become a pretty solid player again. I recently paid for just one lesson with a local pro, just to fix some shots I've always had issues with (returning big serves, FH slice, kick serve) but really I'm making good progress with just video taping myself, critiquing and testing myself against others in league play. The biggest issue for me in my overall game is directional control, hitting balls with no pace and consistency which I address with just long hours against the ball machine.

[pmata814]

I know I still have a lot of work cut out for me, but my short term goal is to reach at least a NTRP rating of 3 so that I can join leagues.

:)

Getting to the 3.0 level should be pretty quick if you work at it. I got to the 3.0 level in 6/7 months from the first time I picked up a racquet. I practiced at least 4x/week, which included a tennis lesson, 1 or 2 days with my ball-machine and 1 or 2 days of hitting with my brothers who were on a very similiar plan as I.

It has been about 3yrs since then and I can barely call myself a decent 3.5 player. Yes I have toned down my practice quite a bit from 4 times a week to 2 but still I feel it has been much harder to go from 1.0-3.0 than from 3.0-3.5...but I've loved every minute of it :)

[tennisdad65]

It gets incremently more difficult and takes more time to climb 0.5 NTRP points the higher up you go.

2.0 to 2.5 may take few months..
4.5 to 5.0 may take a few years..

many (like me) get stuck at 4.5 forever. I guess till age catches up, and then I will filter back down to 4.0-3.5.. :)

[BOShappyplayer]

Thank YOU all for your tips and responses. I greatly appreciate the feedback and feel more encouraged than ever.

I noticed that a few mentioned about the league play vs matches; I haven't thought about it from that angle, so that's something worth thinking about. I just didn't want to jump too much ahead of myself ;); I want to focus on proper techniques and developing consistency (Back in HS, I'm probably what some of you may called a "pusher" - I can hit but had very poor technique).

My instructor at the clinic is great at teaching. I've lucked out so far with a small students/pro ratio. He was able to pinpoint and help me to fix my weaknesses (such as grips, wristing, footwork(!)) that I couldn't catch nearly as easily if I were trying to do this on my own. Some are not yet comfortable from what I used to do (i.e. certain grips when serving), but I plan to stick with it. All in all, I'm getting some very well rounded coaching from my instructor, and thrilled to have an instructor who cares so much about my development. Of course, I hope he enjoyed teaching me since I'm so :D about tennis. I hope to continue but his availability may be more limited during the summer since he'll be teaching kids camps.

I'm looking into getting a USTA membership once I have the basic pat down. I can hit forehands with some consistency now, but I need to work on stepping into the ball more. I've already borrow a lot of books and DVD from the local library. My athletic background consists primarily of swimming (on a team) and mostly skiing (still active this past season).

I currently do not belong to a club right now. My company has a corporate membership to a network of gyms at a discounted rate (a very good deal), but those do not have tennis courts. The club where I'm taking my tennis clinics is pricey as are the private instruction (it's monthly fees is over twice the cost of the corporate membership), but the folks are nice and professional. I have very limited discretionary income, but I will weigh the pros/cons of getting a membership there instead of through the corporate membership since there is partner arranging at this club. (Its gym is mediocre, but tennis is great).

I was wondering about the NTRP because I wanted to know how realistic it is to move up to 3.0 within a 6-12 months period if I just keep at it, or if it is a totally unrealistic goal. (Also, to play devil's advocate: some mentioned about talent, which makes me wonder...how would you know that you have talent or that your "talent" is only a mere result of your practice? :twisted:)

Thank you again for your tips. I really enjoyed reading your responses (and this website) and hope to progress quickly (with proper techniques). I'm sure I'll be lurking around here.

Cheers.

[Cindysphinx]

I think it is hard to focus on becoming a 3.0 in 6-12 months.

I mean, NTRP is a function of how you do against other players. The spring adult season is going on right now, in our area, anyway. You have probably missed the chance to play 2.5 or 3.0 for 2008. So you can work on your skills very hard in 2008, but when ratings come out in November 2008, you won't have one. Should you start playing matches in spring 2009, you could self-rate at 3.0 and then get a computer rating. (It might not hurt to see whether there is still time to get on a 2.5 team.)

That's a long way of saying that you're on the right track by just working on your strokes for now. I would suggest you play a match against another beginner, though. This will give you feedback on what progress you have and haven't made. Try to hit your shots correctly, though. The idea isn't to beat your friend, it's to get used to doing things correctly while under pressure.

Good luck!

[Keruchina]

Hi BOS,

I am also a female in my mid-twenties who played one year of jv tennis then didn't touch a racquet for ten years. I started a once a week clinic on a whim and got hooked.

If you are looking for a good value and people to hit with, I would recommend emailing your local USTA coordinator to see if he/she knows of a 3.0 team that is looking for someone willing to play singles this summer (don't be scared to play 3.0, you will be fine). Even if the season has started, there might be teams that still need someone. From my experience, at every level there are teams looking for someone young and athletic to play singles. Often you don't have to join the club to play on the summer USTA team and by playing on a team you will meet people to hit with on other days.

I found it terribly intimidating to find a team when I was getting started but found that once I had entered the tennis community, I got more offers to be on teams and join clinics than I could keep up with. As a player willing to play singles, regardless of your skill level, you will always be in demand!

[fleabitten]

3. I'd love to find a good answer for practice partners..... i've tried posting on craigslist (creeps), tennisopolis (flakes), everything...

LOL. I like your summary there, but I've noticed on Tennisopolis.com (http://Tennisopolis.com)that it depends on the player and how you go about hooking up. For instance, not saying this is the case with you, but if you don't have a profile pic, people aren't interested in meeting. That's funny because the profile pic could be fake of course. There's like 6000 members on there, so you never know - it's hard to generalize 6000 players. :-)

[NLBwell]

Since NTRP started I've only moved down.

[tom_asdelonge182]

hey I'm similar to the poster, but I'm 19 years old, but don't really have the funds to get all those training and stuff and the time too(have uni!). I still do play around 6 hrs a week and prob more hitting against garage wall. I really want to get good too. So how long would i need to train to get to maybe 4.0? I'm a pretty good athlete btw

[nytennisaddict]

Thank YOU all for your tips and responses.
I was wondering about the NTRP because I wanted to know how realistic it is to move up to 3.0 within a 6-12 months period if I just keep at it, or if it is a totally unrealistic goal.

I used to be a snowboard instructor when I was younger, and when I asked folks how long they've been snowboarding.. it was always in terms of years or seasons... when I dug a bit further, usually 1 year/season was only 10-20 days... whereas in one season I was able to put in 110days... and just for comparison, pro snowboarders probably ride 200+ days a year...

So why the snowboarding example in a tennis forum...?

I'd speculate that when folks first start playing... they do it casually, say 1-2x a week socially (ie. not drilling)... for 1.5hrs a day... so it's reasonable that it would take a year or more to get to the 3.0 level. But let's say you upped that intensity/commitment level to 5x week, 1 hr in the morning, 1hr in the evening... you'd get to the 3.0 level in 16weeks.

Obviously this is an overly simplified example, but my point is: time elapsed != improvement... time spent improving == improvement.. so I tend to be optimistic, and I think you can get to the 3.0 level alot faster if you dedicated yourself with the proper guidance. In comparison, juniors around my area train 4-6hrs a day during the summer, so it's no wonder why they get good quickly.

[Determined]

I believe tennis is not a sport you gradually get better at, although alot of practice is good I think you skip levels as you play. For instance like you're a 1.5 then you learn to watch the ball, you can become a 3 in a couple of weeks. It's all a matter of how well you practice, not how much. If you play 5 hours everyday for a week and all you do is screw around you aren't going to get better, but if you play 5 hours one day a week and you focus on certain aspects of your game, you'll definitely improve faster. For instance I know many people who just started tennis and have played for a year and already they are 4.0+ And then I know people who have played 15 years and are at the same 4.0
Just don't worry about how long it takes if you just practice with a purpose everytime you'll get way better faster than you can say 40-Love.

[Serve_Ace]

its called talent

[10nistennis]

Like Determined said. Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.