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View Full Version : What happened to Gasquet and Murray?


robin7
05-07-2008, 10:29 AM
What happened to the rising stars Richard Gasquet and Andy Murray?

They keep on losing in the early rounds.

tennis_hand
05-07-2008, 06:35 PM
one french joke, one british joke.

Vision84
05-07-2008, 07:10 PM
They would both double bagel you in about 10minutes tennis_hand.

superstition
05-07-2008, 07:11 PM
Murray seems to have changed his playing style significantly. He didn't move at all like the player I've seen so many times. He looked much more excited/enthusiastic, but it didn't look like he was hitting the ball better.

robin7
05-10-2008, 01:02 PM
Looks like Djokovic is way ahead of them...

OMG, they even struggle to stay in the top 10...

Leublu tennis
05-10-2008, 01:04 PM
Its the yoga that got to Murray.

christo
05-10-2008, 01:09 PM
can you say immature?

ajspurs
05-10-2008, 01:12 PM
I thought Murray could be really good but, hes way too inconsistent right now, needs to find a solid playing style that can get him through most matches he should be winning, you never really know how hes going to perform to be honest, I think the same goes for Gasqeut. I think if they were consistent, they would be up there with Djokovic. Djokovic can now get through mathces even when hes not playing well, which is a really improtant ability to have.

fps
05-10-2008, 01:14 PM
murray maintains he will not be playing his best tennis for another couple of years. the whole "young gun" thing can be overemphasised, players mature at different rates, and murray missed a lotta last season. he is showing a determination to improve and drive on that bodes well for the future (new workout techniques, assembling teams of coaches etc).

gasquet may well remain in the "talented top 20" brigade all his career, not sure he's going to challenge at a slam.

futuretoptenner
05-10-2008, 01:25 PM
I think Murray's making slow progress (maybe not so much of late) but I think he'll be in the top 5 by the end of the year. Maybe 6.

Gasquet is a whole different kettle of fish. Hugely talented like Murray but I think with Gasquet it's more in his head than on court. He can play all the shots, on all surfaces great. It's just about remaining consistent.

Feña14
05-10-2008, 04:04 PM
Murray's already won 2 titles this year... and clay's not exactly his strongest surface.

Wait till he get's on the grass.

stormholloway
05-10-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm pretty sure I read that he likes clay best of all.

Feña14
05-10-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm pretty sure I read that he likes clay best of all.

When he was in the juniors clay was his favourite surface, but he was a heavyweight back then.

Now he's playing with the big boys who really know how to win matches on the surface, he doesn't do as well.

anointedone
05-10-2008, 04:48 PM
They are both overrated by people. People overestimate their talent and potential so far that reason they can only continue to dissapoint relative to the unrealistic expectations.

Feña14
05-10-2008, 04:55 PM
They are both overrated by people. People overestimate their talent and potential so far that reason they can only continue to dissapoint relative to the unrealistic expectations.

Hmm.. I think they are both very talented but they are missing the mental strength needed at the moment. When you see them pulling off some of the shots they do, it's clear they have the shots and ability but they don't seem to be able to harness it in the right way.

I read an article last week about Murray where he said he's struggling to feel motivated, that's not the kind of attitude that gets you to the top, especially when he's so young. You'd think he'd be putting everything into it.

zagor
05-10-2008, 05:03 PM
Not everyone can mature as early as Djokovic,Nadal,Hewitt etc. some guys need more time to develop their game and mature and toughen-up mentally.I think Murray has a lot of potential(probably more then Gasquet),I can see him becoming a great player in the future but you never know with these things.

anointedone
05-10-2008, 05:04 PM
Hmm.. I think they are both very talented but they are missing the mental strength needed at the moment. When you see them pulling off some of the shots they do, it's clear they have the shots and ability but they don't seem to be able to harness it in the right way.

I read an article last week about Murray where he said he's struggling to feel motivated, that's not the kind of attitude that gets you to the top, especially when he's so young. You'd think he'd be putting everything into it.

I think Murray has ability but he has to define what his game style is. He sometimes seems like he wants to be a counterpuncher, sometimes he wants to be an attacking baseliner, sometimes he wants to come to net alot. Granted an all around game is fine too but even that needs some form of structure. Once he really decides what he wants the base of his game to be built around for now and go from there, then he will do better IMO. Even more though he needs to control his temper and his mood swings during a match.

Gasquet? Well I think this has been said by alot of others but his game is really overly reliant on his backhand, and the rest of his game isnt anything that noteworthy outside that one great shot. People seem to only see his amazing backhand and not ask themselves what else does he have. Maybe 1 or 2 other pretty good things, but no other great weapons. Most importantly his serve and forehand arent even close to enough to be a top 3 player in todays game, or even a top 5.

anointedone
05-10-2008, 05:05 PM
Not everyone can mature as early as Djokovic,Nadal,Hewitt etc. some guys need more time to develop their game and mature and toughen-up mentally.I think Murray has a lot of potential(probably more then Gasquet),I can see him becoming a great player in the future but you never know with these things.

I do agree Murray has more potential then Gasquet. Gasquet will never be even close to as good as Nadal and Djokovic already are, or what some people predicted/hoped he would become. Just wont ever happen. Murray has more potential then Gasquet IMO. He does have time, but he does need to start working some out in the near future, alot of it in just defining his game style and the mental side of his game I think.

zagor
05-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Yeah,I agree.I also do not see Gasquet defending his Wimbledon semifinal this year,he'll drop out of top 10 IMO.I do feel in general that Gasquet is overrated.

Feña14
05-10-2008, 06:05 PM
I think Murray has ability but he has to define what his game style is. He sometimes seems like he wants to be a counterpuncher, sometimes he wants to be an attacking baseliner, sometimes he wants to come to net alot. Granted an all around game is fine too but even that needs some form of structure. Once he really decides what he wants the base of his game to be built around for now and go from there, then he will do better IMO. Even more though he needs to control his temper and his mood swings during a match.

Gasquet? Well I think this has been said by alot of others but his game is really overly reliant on his backhand, and the rest of his game isnt anything that noteworthy outside that one great shot. People seem to only see his amazing backhand and not ask themselves what else does he have. Maybe 1 or 2 other pretty good things, but no other great weapons. Most importantly his serve and forehand arent even close to enough to be a top 3 player in todays game, or even a top 5.

You're right about Murray neither being one thing nor the other. I think he has the ability to play however he wants, but he needs to decide which way he wants to go and put the work in.

Not fulltime player
05-10-2008, 06:17 PM
I'm pretty sure I read that he likes clay best of all.

He´s spent years at Sanchez-Casal school in Barcelona, that means claycourt training most of days.

Not fulltime player
05-10-2008, 06:21 PM
Nothing new, most of top 50 just need be a bit more consistent to be top 10. If you´re top 50 you´ve got the talent.

orangettecoleman
05-10-2008, 11:20 PM
Murray needs to find a game plan that works, and needs to stay consistent mentally. Gasquet is just burned out. He has been under so much pressure for so long that he's just going through the motions at this point. it's like federer except without the results.

flyer
05-11-2008, 12:20 AM
Murray gets a bit of a tough time/unfair criticism because he is compared to Djokovic, who at this point and prolly for a long time is the better player; still hes had injuries and has no points to defend for a long while, he prolly would have been better of keeping Gilbert, never the less he'll be #4 by the end of the year, guaranteed

Gasquet is really not nearly as talented as people think, hes a shot maker but he has a prettier game than basically everybody so people think he must actually be better, hes still just a shot makers though, don't let the picturesque strokes fool you outside of his backhand they really are not that consistently effective, hes right where he belongs in terms of ranking

msc886
05-11-2008, 12:59 AM
People expect too much of them. They are great players but skill is not the only factor which leads to greatness.

Tempest344
05-11-2008, 04:24 AM
they ran into to players just as talented
with more brains

anointedone
05-11-2008, 07:34 AM
Murray gets a bit of a tough time/unfair criticism because he is compared to Djokovic, who at this point and prolly for a long time is the better player; still hes had injuries and has no points to defend for a long while, he prolly would have been better of keeping Gilbert, never the less he'll be #4 by the end of the year, guaranteed

That is a bold gaurantee considering Davydenko and Roddick are in very impressive form to start the year (assuming you concede the first 3 places to Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic in whatever order). It could happen but he will need a tremendous year from hereon out.

tennis_guy
05-11-2008, 08:17 AM
I don't really understand murray, sometimes he does amazingly well and other times he's really bad. He always get tough draws though which doesnt help. I could see him having one or two hot years at wimbledon but I really dont know how far he will go.

West Coast Ace
05-11-2008, 09:04 AM
...never the less he'll be #4 by the end of the year, guaranteedCan't wait until November to hear your excuses why this hasn't happened.

Murray gives no indication that he can win any significant tournament. He's 'Mr. San Jose' until proven otherwise. E.g. win a Master Series or make a final at a Slam...

That is a bold gaurantee considering Davydenko and Roddick are in very impressive form to start the year (assuming you concede the first 3 places to Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic in whatever order). It could happen but he will need a tremendous year from hereon out.You're being too kind. 'Bold' is an understatement. Flyer doesn't list his location - but I have to think he's somewhere in the EU - maybe a BBC Sports correspondent. They keep talking up Murray at Slams - only to see him flame out early...


http://www.angrybackhand.com

flyer
05-11-2008, 09:21 AM
That is a bold gaurantee considering Davydenko and Roddick are in very impressive form to start the year (assuming you concede the first 3 places to Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic in whatever order). It could happen but he will need a tremendous year from hereon out.

It really wouldn't need to be all that tremendous, its not like Davy and Roddick won't lose a few....

Can't wait until November to hear your excuses why this hasn't happened.

Murray gives no indication that he can win any significant tournament. He's 'Mr. San Jose' until proven otherwise. E.g. win a Master Series or make a final at a Slam...

You're being too kind. 'Bold' is an understatement. Flyer doesn't list his location - but I have to think he's somewhere in the EU - maybe a BBC Sports correspondent. They keep talking up Murray at Slams - only to see him flame out early...


http://www.angrybackhand.com

Really? I would think beating Federer 2 times proves something? Hes also given Nadal all he could handle...Im not in the EU though, I've said where Im from before.

It goes unsaid of course that my prediction is baring injuries, I felt I needed to clear that up just in case certain people don't realize that on their own.

Greenfin Beta
05-11-2008, 09:30 AM
They are both overrated by people. People overestimate their talent and potential so far that reason they can only continue to dissapoint relative to the unrealistic expectations.

i agree. if murray hadn't been british and gasquet, a child prodigy...

West Coast Ace
05-11-2008, 10:07 AM
Really? I would think beating Federer 2 times proves something? Hes also given Nadal all he could handle...Beat Fed in Cincy when it was obvious Fed was worn down from winning TMS Canada. Beat him in Dubai a few months ago when he was still recovering from mono. And as other have stated, it's all about the Slams for Fed now - he's not going to kill himself for the lesser tournaments...



http://www.angrybackhand.com

flyer
05-11-2008, 11:30 AM
Beat Fed in Cincy when it was obvious Fed was worn down from winning TMS Canada. Beat him in Dubai a few months ago when he was still recovering from mono. And as other have stated, it's all about the Slams for Fed now - he's not going to kill himself for the lesser tournaments...



http://www.angrybackhand.com

wins are wins right? hes a player you'll see, he should have kept gilbert, he's been injured and people expect a lot so soon, hes young, but when hes been healthy hes been very consistant

zagor
05-11-2008, 12:03 PM
Murray gets a bit of a tough time/unfair criticism because he is compared to Djokovic, who at this point and prolly for a long time is the better player; still hes had injuries and has no points to defend for a long while, he prolly would have been better of keeping Gilbert, never the less he'll be #4 by the end of the year, guaranteed

Now I do believe Murray has a lot of potential but end this year number #4? I very much doubt that would happen,first three spots are reserved for Federer,Nadal and Djokovic while #4 and #5 will be Davydenko and Roddick who are both playing some great tennis this year.I mean Roddick even gained a bunch of points on clay of all places by getting to the semifinal of Rome and Kolja had that big win in Miami,don't forget about Ferrer as well although he has a ton of points to defend.#7 or # 6 is as far as Murray could go this year and even that is far from guaranteed IMO.

Vlad
05-11-2008, 08:15 PM
I think Murray has ability but he has to define what his game style is. He sometimes seems like he wants to be a counterpuncher, sometimes he wants to be an attacking baseliner, sometimes he wants to come to net alot. Granted an all around game is fine too but even that needs some form of structure. Once he really decides what he wants the base of his game to be built around for now and go from there, then he will do better IMO. Even more though he needs to control his temper and his mood swings during a match.

Gasquet? Well I think this has been said by alot of others but his game is really overly reliant on his backhand, and the rest of his game isnt anything that noteworthy outside that one great shot. People seem to only see his amazing backhand and not ask themselves what else does he have. Maybe 1 or 2 other pretty good things, but no other great weapons. Most importantly his serve and forehand arent even close to enough to be a top 3 player in todays game, or even a top 5.



Murray also has one great shot which is his backhand, but since you mentioned Richard's weak shots, you should surely mention Murray's serve which is in fact weaker than Gasquet's. Just look at stats last year and you will find Gasquet in top 10 or top 15 in every category on both first and second serves. Murray has much worse serve stats.

Overall, I think Murray will have little steadier career, but Richard should be able to win bigger titles because when his game is on it's level significantly higher than Murray's. There is a valid reason why his best results in slams and Masters (semis in GS and 2 Masters finals) are a lot better than Murray's.


Both are out of confidence at this moment, especially Richard, but that doesn't mean he is done or can't turn it around. Just last fall, he won title, reached final of another, reached semis of Paris Masters and got to Masters Cup out of 16-17 possible players. So, let's not bury him completely just yet.

SempreSami
05-12-2008, 12:47 AM
Are we forgetting when he managed to pwn Roddick at Wimbledon the other year?

edmondsm
05-12-2008, 12:59 AM
Both of them have mental issues. Gasquet, has less excuse then Murray. He has had great clay results in the past and hasn't had any (serious) injuries as of late. Murray had that bad wrist injury this time last year, and has never gotten any big results on clay.

West Coast Ace
05-12-2008, 03:54 AM
wins are wins right? hes a player you'll see, he should have kept gilbert, he's been injured and people expect a lot so soon, hes young, but when hes been healthy hes been very consistantIf you want to play the 'wins are wins' card then you should stop talking about 'if Murray is healthy'. I don't know how you can call him consistent - look at this yr - two (smaller) tournament wins and a series of disasterous early exits at the big events. And I agree that he should have kept Gilbert. But YOU'RE the one who said #4 by year end.



http://www.angrybackhand.com

Hansen
05-12-2008, 04:11 AM
i don´t know if its just an impression but i think that murrays racquet change was a bad idea. in the past he was inconsistent too, but he was able to owerpower his oppenents at times and his backhand was a weapon, but after the switch he looks "mediocre".

illkhiboy
05-12-2008, 02:51 PM
If you want to play the 'wins are wins' card then you should stop talking about 'if Murray is healthy'. I don't know how you can call him consistent - look at this yr - two (smaller) tournament wins and a series of disasterous early exits at the big events. And I agree that he should have kept Gilbert. But YOU'RE the one who said #4 by year end.



http://www.angrybackhand.com

Disastrous early exits? Tsonga at the Australian Open was the worst draw he could get. And then he lost to Ancic in Miami. That's again a tough first draw. He's lost a bit of confidence on the clay but expect him to bounce back. He doesn't have much to defend so top 10 is likely. But...top 4 is quite unlikely.

fps
05-12-2008, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=Vlad;2325591]Murray also has one great shot which is his backhand, but since you mentioned Richard's weak shots, you should surely mention Murray's serve which is in fact weaker than Gasquet's. Just look at stats last year and you will find Gasquet in top 10 or top 15 in every category on both first and second serves. Murray has much worse serve stats.

[QUOTE]

Murray may have worse serve stats now, but he's on the way to having a much better serve than gasquet, he can hit the ball mid-high 130s and when it clicks week in week out it'll be a valuable asset to him.

Vlad
05-12-2008, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=Vlad;2325591]Murray also has one great shot which is his backhand, but since you mentioned Richard's weak shots, you should surely mention Murray's serve which is in fact weaker than Gasquet's. Just look at stats last year and you will find Gasquet in top 10 or top 15 in every category on both first and second serves. Murray has much worse serve stats.

[QUOTE]

Murray may have worse serve stats now, but he's on the way to having a much better serve than gasquet, he can hit the ball mid-high 130s and when it clicks week in week out it'll be a valuable asset to him.



Pace is important but it is not the most important and Gasquet can hit mid 130s too if he wants to. My point is Murray has much lower first serve % compared to Gasquet on average and that is what kills him. His placement is also not good on average. Richard has some variety on his serve. I have seen his serve in 2006 and it has not improved much. Lately, it seems like he is getting less and less cheap points off of it.

Even if you look at stats this year:

Gasquet has higher aces per match, first serve points won, second serves points won, service games won and 1st serve % than Murray.. basically almost every stat. AND this is during time of his Major slump, biggest in his career so far. He has not reached 1/4 final this year YET.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/


Overall, I think Gasquet is much much more effective on his serve than Muray even if he gets criticized for it more than Murray.

If Richard gets some confidence this year and starts winning matches, watch him finish in top 10-15 in almost every category on serve once again, just like last year. Murray will not be able to come even close to that.

r2473
05-12-2008, 03:40 PM
Ya, and Nadal.

I mean, he can't get past #2 in the world (I think expectations were for him to be #1). Underachiever!

PandaKuo777
05-13-2008, 09:20 AM
They just need to up their game thats all.

BeHappy
05-13-2008, 09:22 AM
murray has served in the high 140mph's

robin7
05-13-2008, 11:27 AM
Gasquet lost in early round again at Hamburg.

ipwnfed
05-14-2008, 05:38 PM
With murray he has too much variety where he just thinks too much and hits the wrong shots, he just needs time to figure out which shots to hit and when, with gasquet he is just doing terirble but i will got fate that he will get better hopefully before french.

soyizgood
06-17-2008, 10:50 AM
So much for Gasquet doing damage on grass...

Bobble
06-17-2008, 10:58 AM
Eventually, he will start wanting to play again. But let's give him some credit, he was definitely mentally in the match against nalbandian in queens.

robin7
05-25-2012, 10:55 AM
What now after 4 years?

batz
05-25-2012, 11:02 AM
What now after 4 years?

Fascinating to read these comments from May 2008. The thought of Murray being year end number 4 seemed pie in the sky. Kudos to the poster Flyer who guaranteed it!:)

I particularly like West Coast Ace's description of Murray as 'Mr San Jose' :) although to be fair, at that time Murray hadn't made QF at a slam or final of an MS.

robin7
07-08-2012, 02:25 AM
First Wimbledon final for Murray...

ibbi
07-08-2012, 05:34 AM
Murray worked his *** off to get physically better, took steps to improve his game, Gasquet in comparison is lazy, and a mental midget. It's sad, because I'd happily watch Gasquet play all day and every day, but he's so frustrating. 5 years ago I'd have unquestionably picked the Frenchman to be the one to break out.