###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###

[Leoboomanu]

This will be the most exclusive club yet...

And I'm not even a member yet...

Boojay, I know you have done it and more, you may post your videos here to be a member...

NickB, did you get to 30?

To others, this is your chance to show your SKILLz and/or MOOONBALLz if you dare...

Plus, teaching pros and everyone are welcome to discuss stokes...

Let's keep this a fun and informative thread...

I will be updating and editing this first post for members and their video links...

Let the fun begin...


Note: additional accolades will be awarded if the rally included 1-handed backhands...:twisted:

[Leoboomanu]

###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###
"We let the hittin' do the talkin'..."

Members:
1) Boojay: Dreams of a 100 plus rally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU
2) *Drakulie: Too close and yet too far at 21!
You can do it!(as said by Rob Snieder in Adam Sandler Movies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWT4fj2NT4
3) Tokyopunk: The funnier the better... Hat's off to you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhOKNbk4Bo


Enjoy guys!

I better do it the 'tokyo' way... (I'm talking to myself...)

*This page is also found in post#2 of this thread.

[my_forehand]

30?!?! You must be outta your mind mister.

[Vision84]

30 isn't that bad. My coach in college was making us do 50

[nickb]

NickB, did you get to 30?

Not according to nobadmojo...:)

Im going out to play in a bit will get a vid with my amazing 30+ rallys!

[Leoboomanu]

Not according to nobadmojo...:)

Im going out to play in a bit will get a vid with my amazing 30+ rallys!

Hahaha nice to see some support here... looking forward...

nbmj better produce some videos of his own or he'll lose some of his mojos... hehehe we're all friends in this club nbmj... you'll always have my respect...

as for me, i'm gonna enter this club no matter what it takes!!!

30+ means 15 hits each or more... that's all it takes...

the more the better...

we will have TWPosters World Records for the most... Also for the most impressive... All members get to vote...:)

[Leoboomanu]

Oh by the way... I give credit to drakulie's thread for inspiring this...

Thanks drak!

[Djokovicfan4life]

30 strokes is excessive anyway. If you can't finish off the point in less than 30 then you're probably doing something wrong.

I'm only talking about a match, of course. Rallying for fun is a different story.

[WBF]

Djokovicfan: This exchange by BB and NBM demonstrates the importance of the ability to rally like this fairly well:

Why is the long rally an indicator of skill level? It is because of what NBM indicated, a long rally is tiring and the stroke and footwork for many players break down on the 4th maybe the 6th shot. End of rally. This is not good because you want to be able to go a long time and exceed the normal rallies in a match.

I believe this is exactly what NBM was indicating to NickB regarding his ability to sustain a rally. His footwork, court position, some hitches, and movement caused his stroke to breakdown much too soon. Key words, TOO SOON.


ya man...we're saying the same things. i'd like to add that around here people seem far too fixated on the actual stroke rather than what leads up to the stroke and what happens after the shot....footwork, court positioning, racquet prep, movement to the ball, movement after the hit/recovery for the next shot, etc. in many many cases, what breaks down is the footwork rather than the stroke. get the other stuff right and often the stroke just goes really well on its own. it's fundamental tennis..played from the feet up. pretty strokes w. bad footwork arent going to get people very far assuming their goal is to play better tennis rather than pose.


It's a good indication of the ability to maintain solid fundamental prep-work (and strokes obviously) in exhaustive situations. I know it's personally something I have to work on, as playing a long point that ends because of a single stupid mistake in preping for the ball is something I am all too familiar with.

[split-step]

Just rallying 30 strokes in a row is not hard. Doing it in a match is a different story though.

[Moz]

30 strokes is excessive anyway. If you can't finish off the point in less than 30 then you're probably doing something wrong.

I'm only talking about a match, of course. Rallying for fun is a different story.

Don't underestimate the effect on your results of being able to go out there and happily hit 30+ shot rallies in a match if required. Treat every ball on it's merits and if you don't have an attacking opportunity you keep going until you do. Whether it be 10, 30 or 100 shots.

If you are the one who has to force an opening because of lack of fitness or patience then you are the one probably doing something wrong.

[Bungalo Bill]

You have to use your normal strokes without major adjustments to just get the ball back. In other words, the level of play that you are currently at needs to match your rally. Do not push the ball if you have developed a full swing in other words.

It is okay to slow down the stroke but your rally stroke should be about 80% of your maximum. The question will be can you sustain a rally hitting the ball with 80% effort for a long time?

Let's see what breaks down first. Is it your footwork? Your court position? Your depth? Placement? Does your mind wander on one of the shots causing you to make the next ball more difficult?

You are also suppose to move the ball some but never go for a winner. The ball should also go to the backhand and the forehand side but allow your partner to keep the ball in play. This is a REAL rally.

If you are a 4.0 player but reduce your pace and the difficulty of your ball to what a beginner would consider somewhat challenging, this is not what we are talking about.

Make it real and make it challenging.

[FedererISBetter]

Moz got a point there guys... I'm one of these players that get more comfortable as each shot goes back in forth in a rally. And eventually it breaks and I either end up thinking I'm Federer and do a low percentage shot that works once or twice every 2-3 games.

[Bungalo Bill]

Moz got a point there guys... I'm one of these players that get more comfortable as each shot goes back in forth in a rally. And eventually it breaks and I either end up thinking I'm Federer and do a low percentage shot that works once or twice every 2-3 games.

Fitness, mental stamina, focus, court awareness, recovery, movement, footwork, preparation, ball control, racquet head control, consistency, etc... will all be tested.

It is obvious that NBM brought up a key area to develop. I and other coaches have touched on it many times. I thought NBM brought clarity with the key word being BREAKDOWN.

As a player you are to consistently develop your footwork, stroke, mental strength, stamina, etc...and review whether you have an imbalance in your training. I have said it, others have said it, and now NBM has said it, you have got to train your entire body for tennis and not just your arm and stroke.

You must spend time developing good footwork and speed to provide the foundation for a stroke that won't breakdown under pressure.

[split-step]

I can count the number of times I've had a 30+ rally this year IN A MATCH: 1.

I agree with the person that says if you are consistently having 30+ rallies, you are doing something wrong (and your fitness is awesome :) ).

I can rally 30+ if I'm just rallying but there is no way I will intentionally let a point get to 30shots. I will be at net way before then anyway.

[chess9]

On suicides I hit 56 in a row, using the doubles court lines (cheating a bit :) ). I had DTL. :) I'd say I was hitting about 60% of max pace. I can't hit harder and stay so consistent because I just like to hammer the ball too much.

-Robert

[Bungalo Bill]

I can count the number of times I've had a 30+ rally this year IN A MATCH: 1.

I agree with the person that says if you are consistently having 30+ rallies, you are doing something wrong (and your fitness is awesome :) ).

I can rally 30+ if I'm just rallying but there is no way I will intentionally let a point get to 30shots. I will be at net way before then anyway.

I dont know how many times we have to say this so I will say it again. We are not talking about CONSTRUCTING POINTS BASED ON MATCHUPS OR STRATEGY.

WE ARE NOT COMPARING YOUR MATCH SHOTS (serving, volleying, returning, groundstrokes, half-volleys, lobs, drop shots, etc...) AND RALLYING WITH YOUR GROUNDSTROKES. WE ARE BUILDING UP THE GROUNDSTROKE AREA MUCH LIKE YOU WOULD WORK ON YOUR SERVE.

We are simply talking about building consistency in your groundstrokes. If your groundstrokes suck and you can't hit it well after two balls, admit it and move on. Quit making excuses just because you can't do it.

[sharpilistik]

so.....does it count as "1" as each person hits the ball?

[f1 tech]

I think if you can hit 30 balls in a row against the wall from the same distance as the baseline, you're pretty good too!

[Kokopelli]

so.....does it count as "1" as each person hits the ball?

Yes, that's how I count them - so 30-ball rally means you hit 15 times the other dude/dudette hits 15 times.

Personally, I don't think I have done this, ever. Too impatient, too power hungry and too bad to do it.

[rocket]

Better players have what they call "Controlled Agression" in their game. You can't have that controlled agression without controlling the ball, and if you can't control the ball, how can you control the situation?

Practice-rallies give you that. You get to measure your strokes, you get to refine your footwork, you get to control your breathing & manage muscle tiredness. You get to hit the ball more consistently, more efficiently, more powerfully. After a while, you'll feel that you can direct the ball anywhere you want and stay in the point for as long as it takes to win it. Your strokes are grooved, your feet light, you can bang away & the ball stays in. You then have what they call "Controlled Agression" in your game:)

[SlapShot]

Better players have what they call "Controlled Agression" in their game. You can't have that controlled agression without controlling the ball, and if you can't control the ball, how can you control the situation?

Practice-rallies give you that. You get to measure your strokes, you get to refine your footwork, you get to control your breathing & manage muscle tiredness. You get to hit the ball more consistently, more efficiently, more powerfully. After a while, you'll feel that you can direct the ball anywhere you want and stay in the point for as long as it takes to win it. Your strokes are grooved, your feet light, you can bang away & the ball stays in. You then have what they call "Controlled Agression" in your game:)

Well said.

To me, tennis is like a boxing match. You don't want to go in trying to knock the guy out with every swing, because you'll put yourself in some compromising spots.

Instead, your goal is to jab away and wait for your opponent to show their chin, and take your shot then. If you are swinging for the fences every time you swing, not only will you be wild and miss a lot of your shots, but you'll tire yourself out and end up in bad shape.

[split-step]

We are simply talking about building consistency in your groundstrokes. If your groundstrokes suck and you can't hit it well after two balls, admit it and move on. Quit making excuses just because you can't do it.

LOL at this. If you are just talking about rallying in the context of drilling, then 30 shots in a row is not hard. Not sure why this club is exclusive, 3.5 girls can do this.

[Bungalo Bill]

LOL at this. If you are just talking about rallying in the context of drilling, then 30 shots in a row is not hard. Not sure why this club is exclusive, 3.5 girls can do this.

Yeah, right. You are laughing because you got it all wrong. What do know Mr. 2.5. - prove it. Talk is cheap. Oh and dont drift back into pushing the ball or carefully hitting it back. We are talking about having decent spin, depth, and pace. Now I am laughing, LOL!!!

[SlapShot]

LOL at this. If you are just talking about rallying in the context of drilling, then 30 shots in a row is not hard. Not sure why this club is exclusive, 3.5 girls can do this.

Try hitting a solid rally ball over the net for a 30 stroke rally. We're not talking moonballs here - we're talking a full stroke with solid depth, and not missing.

I guarantee that if you hopped on the court with a 4.5+ player, and were going to rally with solid pace, you'd struggle to have a 10 stroke rally.

[Bungalo Bill]

Try hitting a solid rally ball over the net for a 30 stroke rally. We're not talking moonballs here - we're talking a full stroke with solid depth, and not missing.

I guarantee that if you hopped on the court with a 4.5+ player, and were going to rally with solid pace, you'd struggle to have a 10 stroke rally.

Exactly right.

[LafayetteHitter]

Anyone that thinks this is an easy task must only be involved in tennis through television. One of the great things about extended stroke rallies is to develop rhythm. Anyone can go out and hit 2 or 3 balls as hard as they can and then sail one into the fence. The point of this is do you have patience along with sound strokes?

[split-step]

Try hitting a solid rally ball over the net for a 30 stroke rally. We're not talking moonballs here - we're talking a full stroke with solid depth, and not missing.

What else would you be doing? If you push the ball, you are more likely not to make 30 in a row. 30 in a row becomes EASIER when you're stepping into the ball and hitting with proper mechanics and a full swing.

[QUOTE=SlapShot;2316846]I guarantee that if you hopped on the court with a 4.5+ player, and were going to rally with solid pace, you'd struggle to have a 10 stroke rally.

LOL at guaranteeing I will struggle. Don't superimpose your rally struggles on me.
I'm a 4.5 player and I do 20 crosscourt fh then 20 crosscourt bh with my regular hitting partner who is a lefty before playing.

[Bungalo Bill]

LOL at guaranteeing I will struggle. Don't superimpose your rally struggles on me.
I'm a 4.5 player and I do 20 crosscourt fh then 20 crosscourt bh with my regular hitting partner who is a lefty before playing.

That is what we are asking for. However, what we are not asking for is your lame attitude claiming "anyone" can do it. That is entirely false. So, since you are already there (or so you claim), then 50 balls shouldn't be an issue either.

Further, since this is the norm for you. In other words, you yawn at the thought of hitting 30 balls, then I wouldn't be stretching to say you could probably do this for at least an hour. Right?

So put it up, you can teach us all how to play.

[split-step]

Anyone that thinks this is an easy task must only be involved in tennis through television. One of the great things about extended stroke rallies is to develop rhythm. Anyone can go out and hit 2 or 3 balls as hard as they can and then sail one into the fence. The point of this is do you have patience along with sound strokes?

Well if you aretalking about hitting the ball as hard as you can for 30 shots, then that is not rallying.
if you are hitting the ball back to your opponent, giving him the same ball, then yes, 30 in a row is easy.

[split-step]

That is what we are asking for. However, what we are not asking for is your lame attitude claiming "anyone" can do it. That is entirely false. So, since you are already there (or so you claim), then 50 balls shouldn't be an issue either.

So put it up afterall, maybe you could teach all how to play.

How about you learn how to quote first? ;)

[Bungalo Bill]

How about you learn how to quote first? ;)

LOL, is that it? LOL! Sure, I will learn how to quote first. hahaha

[split-step]

LOL, is that it? LOL! Sure, I will learn how to quote first. hahaha

You did it! Well done.

[Bungalo Bill]

You did it! Well done.

NOW IT IS YOUR TURN.

I guess we won't be seeing you around anymore, except to maybe keep talking about it. LOL

[split-step]

You're so funny Bill. :twisted:

[Bungalo Bill]

You're so funny Bill. :twisted:

Oh, I am more than funny. I am looking forward to your display of athleticism and talent. Afterall, didn't you say a 3.5 girl could do it?

Please be my guest and prove it. First, please reread the new requirements because I believe you speak the truth and 30 balls is way too easy for you.

[split-step]

You really are funny :lol:. Funny if you think I care whether you or anyone else on this site believes I can hit 30 strokes in a row; tired.

I'm off to play tennis in 30.
kthkbye!

[Bungalo Bill]

You really are funny :lol:. Funny if you think I care whether you or anyone else on this site believes I can hit 30 strokes in a row; tired.

I'm off to play tennis in 30.
kthkbye!

ROFLMAO!!!! Bye! See you later! Run along now! Have fun!

[dave333]

I was forced to get to 40 by my coach during a clinic and I managed to get 44 the third try.

[Bungalo Bill]

I was forced to get to 40 by my coach during a clinic and I managed to get 44 the third try.

Very good, but can you do this over and over again? Can you at least get to 20 balls over and over again with your full strokes?

[Korangster]

i dunno bill, your kinda being over aggressive against ppls posts.

NEways, i have never gotten a 30 ball rally in a match. in consistency game ive gotten 53, but i was pushing, so i guess it doesn't count

[christos_liaskos]

Interesting thread. Clearly the stumbling block so far is 'what is the benchmark in quality?'. I know you have pointed out BB that power, spin and depth are what we are looking for, but who is to judge what amount of power, spin and depth is sufficient enough to make the 30 shot rally count in this case?

I, like many others, rarely go out with the intention to count the shots of a rally but when the one time I did, about 2 years ago, I reached a rally of 150something, one other rally around 120 and one just under 100. I would say I was putting effort into every shot, obviously not outright winner type power though.

To get to such a score you need high intensity in all departments, footwork, stroke hitting and concetration. The player I did it with was a coach who I worked for at the time and was obviously as solid as a wall himself. If I was to have try and have a rally like that now with any of my current friends I dont think they have the intensity required in any of the departments I mentioned, most notably, concentration. After all, the mind holds control over everything else.

Also adding: I am a coach myself and I have the highest standards for myself. Although I am capable of very good consistency, in matchplay I never did very well, this was where my mind let me down. I have had a handfull of individual coaching myself, I learnt myself and from whatever I heard coaches telling other players. I learnt my backhand in one lesson and then went away and perfected it myself.

[Bungalo Bill]

i dunno bill, your kinda being over aggressive against ppls posts.

NEways, i have never gotten a 30 ball rally in a match. in consistency game ive gotten 53, but i was pushing, so i guess it doesn't count

Aggressive, right. You mean against ONE persons posts. Let's not exaggerate.

I felt I couldnt have been more informative and show patience regarding what a 30 + ball rally means. I explained it here and in another thread.

I mean please tell me how many posts do I have to provide to explain what this means and have it still taken out of context? How many?

How many posts does it take before you will be okay with me replying to someone's sarcasm and false information? Do you have some sort of measure? Maybe you can tolerate false claims and information on an ongoing basis. Maybe you just only care about what YOU can get out of this and dont care at all about learning how to teach tennis or help players get better. Maybe you are one of those that come in here, milk people for what they know, and then bash those who consistently try to help and provide quality instruction or advice.

Please tell me how many times do I need to respond in my explanations to get you to realize that it was the other person that you should have responded too.

[dave333]

I probably wouldn't be able to get 40+ over and over again, but I think around 20 is definitely manageable.

[Bungalo Bill]

I probably wouldn't be able to get 40+ over and over again, but I think around 20 is definitely manageable.

If you can do that, great. Build up from there. It is an excellent exercise for your groundstrokes, your mind, and your conditioning.

[rocket]

I mean please tell me how many posts do I have to provide to explain what this means and have it still be taken out of context? How many?

Not many, perhaps once & that's it, take it or leave it I'd say. You give great advice, and it's FREE! Luv your analytical skills, luv the way you break it down to make it easier to understand. It'd be smart to take that advice, try it out & see if it works for us; it's only for our own tennis good.

[Moz]

I strongly disagree long rallies in a match are a bad thing. You can be hitting and receiving good deep balls which make an expedition to the net or a real forcing shot from the baseline so low % that you just shouldn't try them.

What are you going to do in this case? Just pick an arbitrary number at which point you are going to finish the rally? Or are you going to do the sensible thing and keep rallying deep and wait for the opportunity.

That's one of the reasons confidence in your own conditioning is so important. You want to have the safety net that every long debilitating rally hurts your opponent more than it hurts you.

In that instance you have the luxury of choosing your moment and the opponent has the pressure of creating something out of nothing. Hit good depth and placement, have consistently good footwork and be fitter than the other guy. A lot of the time that's all you need. In instances like that you love and encourage long rallies.

Are some of the posters saying that's not good matchplay?

[Bungalo Bill]

Not many, perhaps once & that's it, take it or leave it I'd say.

Maybe you are right. Unfortunately, I can't do that so you would be asking the impossible from me.

You give great advice, and it's FREE! Luv your analytical skills, luv the way you break it down to make it easier to understand. It'd be smart to take that advice, try it out & see if it works for us; it's only for our own tennis good.

That is okay if you don't use the advice. I just can't sit idle when players make these weird claims. "Just say no" in this area doesn't apply to me. :)

[basiljunk]

I strongly disagree long rallies in a match are a bad thing. You can be hitting and receiving good deep balls which make an expedition to the net or a real forcing shot from the baseline so low % that you just shouldn't try them.

What are you going to do in this case? Just pick an arbitrary number at which point you are going to finish the rally? Or are you going to do the sensible thing and keep rallying deep and wait for the opportunity.

Completely agree. Although i prefer to watch some good S&V tennis, watching a good long rally where somebody is forced to WIN the point (as opposed to just smack the ball and either put a hole in the back fence or (once in 10) get that flukey winner) is fascinating.

Me? I could rally consistently at 80% on my forehand all day long. On the backhand, though, i'd be very, very happy if i could even reach 30.

[RedWeb]

I'm still waiting for video post #1. Lots of talk very little walk in this thread. I'll admit its tough for me and my doubles partner (both 3.5) to reach 20.

[Leoboomanu]

Hello people...

With all due respect BB, please do ease up on the posters... Do you have a videocam?

There are no members yet?

After 2 game of doubles last night, i tried to get to 30...

The best we did was about 20, 21 twice... and a couple of semi moonball recovery stuff...

So does that make me 3.5ish... I had an excuse(was tired hehehe)

Will try it next time with fresh legs...

hehehe anyways i wish boojay and nickb could jive in...


Peace

[Bungalo Bill]

Hello people...

With all due respect BB, please do ease up on the posters... Do you have a videocam?

Easy up on what? Bad advice? Improper instruction? How many countless posts do I need to provide? How many good tennis advice does a person need to provide?

Easy up? I tell you what. I will easy up if you are fair about it. Try telling whoever is sarcastic or blatently says they "want to ruin my credibility" the same. Tell the person who is obviously exagerating and providing poor advice the same. You do that, and I will be right there.

Until you do, my advice and argument stands.

[Leoboomanu]

And yes...

There is only one criteria everyone... The number 30!!! 15 hits each...

Just show us what you've got...:)

Peace

[Leoboomanu]

Easy up on what? Bad advice? Improper instruction? How many countless posts do I need to provide? How many good tennis advice does a person need to provide?

Easy up? I tell you what. I will easy up if you are fair about it. Try telling whoever is sarcastic or blatently says they "want to ruin my credibility" the same. Tell the person who is obviously exagerating and providing poor advice the same. You do that, and I will be right there.

Until you do, my advice and argument stands.

What can i say... We can't change the world... But we can at least try...

So rock on BB... I'm with you on that...

Peace

[Julieta]

I really wonder about the coaches some of the people on this board have. I don't work with one any more because of the cost - I need the money for other things - and I have some good hitting partners who are honest with me and some other contacts and in all honesty, when I need help with something I look at BBs posts. They have been spot on and have helped me tremendously. But anyway, in reading some of these posts from people who appear to be decent players and must have had some coaching or have it at present, it surprises me that this is such a big deal. Again, we arent talking about how you play points in a match. I feel like the coaches I know and those that I worked with previously must be sadists or something. A lot of people here must be coached by the tennis equivalent of the peace loving conflict avoiding teacher on Beavis and Butthead. Or they only coach finishing shots or something.

You think 30 ball rallies are a big deal? Try doing that and into the corners. Think USPTA exam but cut in half. And the ball better have the right trajectory or you're going to hear about that too. If you cant hang, down to the lower courts you will go. And dont even think about whining...

[baselinerT]

Still no video??!!!!!!!!

[MTChong]

I had club practice today, and though my hitting partner and I didn't actually set a goal, we only got to around 20 or so before missing a shot. So it definitely is a tough task, and certainly, not any 3.5 girl could do it.

I agree, breakdown happens pretty quickly -- for me, I get really lazy on footwork after a couple strokes.

[drakulie]

There was a poster here by the name of:

nicktchernikov

He had a match play video of a 41 shot rally. If memory serves, the point was for the match, or set, and he was a 4.5 player????

Anyway, the vid was taken down, and I can't seem to find anymore of his vids.

[counter_puncher]

50? our coach made us do 100+

[YonexFanatic21]

Less talk more videos? i thought this was a video club not a talk club >.>

[Leoboomanu]

I'll say it again...

There is only one criterion... that's 30+ rally, 15 hits each...

Tips on how to do it:

1) get a very good player opposite you... make him return the ball always to your forehand...

2) do it with fresh legs... primary causes of errors is lack of rhythm and inability recover due to tiredness...

3) use new balls...

4) background music may help to ease pressure...

In my own experience, it's better to hit with moderate pace than to moonball... moonballs can lead to short returns and you begin to scramble which can look ugly...

but hey an ugly30 is better than talk-only30...

Peace...

[boojay]

Boojay, I know you have done it and more, you may post your videos here to be a member...


Well shizzle....you mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU

Actually, I'd like to be part of the 100+ rally club and my goal is to reach the 300+ rally club ;). Next vid Halsted and I make will be much more intense as we've been pushing each a lot every since our tournament together.

There was a poster here by the name of:

nicktchernikov

He had a match play video of a 41 shot rally. If memory serves, the point was for the match, or set, and he was a 4.5 player????

Anyway, the vid was taken down, and I can't seem to find anymore of his vids.

I know who you're talking about, Drak. I misjudged that kid. If he's a 4.5, then I'm a 3.5, 4.0 max.

[Bungalo Bill]

Well shizzle....you mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU

Actually, I'd like to be part of the 100+ rally club and my goal is to reach the 300+ rally club ;). Next vid Halsted and I make will be much more intense as we've been pushing each a lot every since our tournament together.

Didn't see it but I also didnt watch all of the film. I saw the 24 shot one and questioned one ball.

Can you control the ball even further where it lands nearly in the same spot for 30 balls (with depth)? Show me that clip.

[Leoboomanu]

###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###
"We let the hittin' do the talkin'..."

Member:
1) Boojay: Dreams of a 100 plus rally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU

Enjoy guys!

*This page is also found in post#2 of this thread.

[boojay]

Can you control the ball even further where it lands nearly in the same spot for 30 balls (with depth)? Show me that clip.

I'm gonna have to say no if you mean the exact 2x2 or 3x3 feet spot--I doubt I could do it for 10 balls. I might be able to hit a 4x4 or 5x5 spot consistently if my partner hits the exact same spot over and over again, thus setting me up for the same shot over and over again, but I've never tried that drill, though it sounds beyond my current level.

Some days I can control depth pretty well, which is becoming more and more frequent I'm happy to say. On really good days, it seems I can paint the baseline. I'm still trying to straighten out the footwork issue so I can setup the same way for every shot. I believe I've improved, but there's still a long way to go. My depth control is definitely not up to par with my directional control, but I realize how big of a weapon depth can be by itself, let alone in conjunction with directional control.

[boojay]

###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###
"We let the hittin' do the talkin'..."

Member:
1) Boojay: Dreams of a 100 plus rally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU

Enjoy guys!

*This page is also found in post#2 of this thread.

I can already do 100+, Lee ;), I just don't have it on video. It's 300+ I dream about.

[Bungalo Bill]

I'm gonna have to say no if you mean the exact 2x2 or 3x3 feet spot--I doubt I could do it for 10 balls. I might be able to hit a 4x4 or 5x5 spot consistently if my partner hits the exact same spot over and over again, thus setting me up for the same shot over and over again, but I've never tried that drill, though it sounds beyond my current level.

Some days I can control depth pretty well, which is becoming more and more frequent I'm happy to say. On really good days, it seems I can paint the baseline. I'm still trying to straighten out the footwork issue so I can setup the same way for every shot. I believe I've improved, but there's still a long way to go. My depth control is definitely not up to par with my directional control, but I realize how big of a weapon depth can be by itself, let alone in conjunction with directional control.

Work on it kid. ;)

[boojay]

Work on it kid. ;)

Always.....

[Leoboomanu]

Hahaha but i did see a volley exchange in the video... for me that's harder...

Shall we award 2 rallypoints for volleys? hehehe nope

BB, that's really harsh asking Boojay to hit that precisely...:(

But, Boojay replied quite respectfully, so all is cool...:)

Looking forward to your 100 Boojay... No volleys this time please...

Peace

[boojay]

Hahaha but i did see a volley exchange in the video... for me that's harder...

Shall we award 2 rallypoints for volleys? hehehe nope

BB, that's really harsh asking Boojay to hit that precisely...:(

But, Boojay replied quite respectfully, so all is cool...:)

Looking forward to your 100 Boojay... No volleys this time please...

Peace

Heh, there was nothing wrong with BB's post. He just gave me something else to work on, which is great.

[Leoboomanu]

Hitting into the same small area over over!!! That's tough...

I say depth control and perfect rhythm more than anything else...

I think only the best pros can do that...

[Leoboomanu]

Was just viewing ChrisInJapan's vid...

I'm hoping he'll try to do a 30+rally video...

Can he do it?

I think he'll get it, but it will need some samurai magic... Good luck...

Calling Chris!!! CALLING CHRIS!!! 15 hits each... That's all it takes...


Peace

[kairosntx]

72 posts and boojay is the only one that has posted a link to video showing proof of 30+ making him the only member of this club... is that right?

I was hoping to see some good video. Oh well.

I'd have to hire someone to take the video and get the video into the computer and posted online. I don't think my VHS camcorder can pull it off.

[TokyopunK]

72 posts and boojay is the only one that has posted a link to video showing proof of 30+ making him the only member of this club... is that right?

I was hoping to see some good video. Oh well.

I'd have to hire someone to take the video and get the video into the computer and posted online. I don't think my VHS camcorder can pull it off.

It's been 2 days gosh!!!!!!

Get ready for a 829 ball rally......... I just got to find it somewhere.......darn it I can't find it!

[Bungalo Bill]

BB, that's really harsh asking Boojay to hit that precisely...:(

But, Boojay replied quite respectfully, so all is cool...:)

Looking forward to your 100 Boojay... No volleys this time please...

Peace

Leoboomanu,

Please, please, please, know this.

I will provide guidance, advice, instruction, drills, direction, toughness, style, preference, passion, emotion, enthusiasm, criticism, stubborness, determination, and a no nonsense approach to how I coach and provide direction to a player.

Unless you want to step-up to the plate and offer your advice then I would suggest you sitback, stay quiet, and mind your own business.

By offering your critique to everything I am saying, it is causing you and I to become indifferent. Unless, you have something better to offer, quit thinking you are some sort of referee judging what I can say and what I can't say. You don't know the half of what I am looking at when I watch a player because you dont have the skill set or experience.

[WBF]

Do specific rallies/drills count, like all forehands cross court, down the line, etc?

[SlapShot]

Leoboomanu,

Please, please, please, know this.

I will provide guidance, advice, instruction, drills, direction, toughness, style, preference, passion, emotion, enthusiasm, criticism, stubborness, determination, and a no nonsense approach to how I coach and provide direction to a player.

Unless you want to step-up to the plate and offer your advice then I would suggest you sitback, stay quiet, and mind your own business.

By offering your critique to everything I am saying, it is causing you and I to become indifferent. Unless, you have something better to offer, quit thinking you are some sort of referree judging what I can say and what I can't say. You dont know the half of what I am looking at when I watch a player because you dont have the skill set or experience.

BB - offering tough love to the TTW boards since 2004. :)

[slicelob]

i thought someone mentioned this already but i thought this was a video club, i wanna see some videos!!! :)

[drakulie]

Boojay, as always>> great job with the vid.Very entertaining. :)

On a side note:

I hit with powerplay21 from the boards today. We were able to get to 48 shots. Ironically, it was at the very end of our hitting session, and the longer the rally lasted, the harder the shots became.

[drakulie]

Here you go, a 30+ rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zumFYO8u70

[aimr75]

is that you drak?

very sweet backhand :)

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

Yep, very nice Drak. Do you play in USTA tournies and at what NTRP level?

[J011yroger]

That's not Drak. It's PowerPlay.

J

[Leoboomanu]

That's not Drak. It's PowerPlay.

J

Please verify who's who...

If those were indeed drak and PP, I can only give membership to PP...
But I will give special mention to drak for holding the cam and hitting at the same time:)

Wow, powerplay hits hard...
People, that is not the easiest way to do a 30+ rally... No, no, no...

BB, I will no longer interrupt your posts... I have read and applied a few of your teachings here and for that I am thankful...
But hear that I am not used to the YOUR ways... more so, I am learning on how to be a good coach/trainer and I wish to employ a calmer approach... 3-5 years from now I hopefully will be a good coach...
To my 1 year old son...

Peace

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

That's not Drak. It's PowerPlay.

J

I see...

Drak, are you filming or are you Powerplay's opponent?

[Tennisguy777]

Here you go, a 30+ rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zumFYO8u70

If that is you, you're my hero. I want to hit that lefty backhand like that. I 've tried for years but that is the only part of my game that is lacking.

[WBF]

That's definitely a current or former pro.

[drakulie]

Uh-ohs.:shock: Sorry for the confusion guys.

The vid I posted was not from today, that is a vid of a player that was at my club last week. He goes by the name of mariano puerta. :)

I'm still trying to upload the vids from today, but the battery on my camera died, so I have to recharge it, and then upload the vids. I was only able to upload one vid before the battery died, and it was a 21?? shot rally. The rally is moderate pace.

Here is the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWT4fj2NT4

[Topaz]

Drak...is he hitting with Carlos in that vid?

[drakulie]

^^^Topaz, yes he is. Carlos was smacking the crap out of the ball too.

[Topaz]

^^^Topaz, yes he is. Carlos was smacking the crap out of the ball too.

Heh heh...did I mention I still have nightmares about trying to run down his shots?

Now that I've read through the whole thread...I'm inspired. As a 3.5 *girl* my goal is a 30+ rally!!! With good depth, control, and spin.

[couch]

Uh-ohs.:shock: Sorry for the confusion guys.

The vid I posted was not from today, that is a vid of a player that was at my club last week. He goes by the name of mariano puerta. :)

I'm still trying to upload the vids from today, but the battery on my camera died, so I have to recharge it, and then upload the vids. I was only able to upload one vid before the battery died, and it was a 21?? shot rally. The rally is moderate pace.

Here is the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWT4fj2NT4

Whoever that Mariano Puerta guy is, he looks like a 3.5 in that video. ;) :)

Too funny!

[SlapShot]

Here you go, a 30+ rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zumFYO8u70

Pssssh......I've seen 4.0 players that would smoke this guy. ;)


He's a helluva striker - I could only hope to put that kind of sting on a ball.

[iamke55]

Haha it's funny how TT's standards are so high that they see a French Open finalist rallying and ask "what NTRP is he?"

[J011yroger]

The vid I posted was not from today, that is a vid of a player that was at my club last week. He goes by the name of mariano puerta. :)

Whomever this Mariano guy is, he has a heck of a forehand for a 3.5!

If he shored up that dodgy one hander he would be 4.0 within a year.

J

[rocket]

A fun rally from the pros:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nH2l9khi5RU&feature=related

[PED]

^^^Topaz, yes he is. Carlos was smacking the crap out of the ball too.


On his forehand, Puerta's racquet head acceleration is so fast, it's almost like the camera has been sped up. Really impressive. If it looks that fast on film, I can only imagine how fast it was in the flesh.

[boojay]

Boojay, as always>> great job with the vid.Very entertaining. :)

On a side note:

I hit with powerplay21 from the boards today. We were able to get to 48 shots. Ironically, it was at the very end of our hitting session, and the longer the rally lasted, the harder the shots became.

Thanks, Drak. :)

You look like you're spankin' the ball well in your vid. Man, I wish I could play on clay someday. The transition from indoor to outdoor hardcourts is very apparent to me (outdoor courts are ridiculously slow). I can only imagine how much slower clay would be and how much more fun it would be to have more time to set up for my shots.

Lookin' forward to your 30+ vid!

P.S. Here's a tip, if you use the subtitles like me, you don't have to count ;) :P

Actually, if you don't strive to hit long rallies by counting, there's less pressure, and you end up going way longer than if you were to count. At least, that's my theory. So just hit away and then count afterwards, with no particular goal count in mind. I just focus on keeping the ball in play.

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

If you want to see massive racquet-head speed/acceleration, check out :30, 33, 35, 45, 47 on the vid of Puerta. Ha, yes I don't know how I failed to recognize him now rewatching the video.

[PED]

^^especially the early 30's. I just start laughing when I watch it-it's like he's from another planet.

[Bungalo Bill]

BB, I will no longer interrupt your posts... I have read and applied a few of your teachings here and for that I am thankful...
But hear that I am not used to the YOUR ways... more so, I am learning on how to be a good coach/trainer and I wish to employ a calmer approach... 3-5 years from now I hopefully will be a good coach...
To my 1 year old son...

Peace

That is fine, I would not interrupt your style. We need coaches like that because not everyone can handle my style of coaching.

However, I will never apoligize for being demanding of players. I set the bar high and expect players to suck it up and get there. If they want to whine or call me names, that is fine, I just get tougher, more demanding, and a lot more stubborn. In other words. I am not afraid to "studder" when I count the pushups players are doing. I believe a coach should take players farther then players can take themselves. That is my style of coaching and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I will reward solid effort and will compliment it. I am never afraid to point out good effort. I do it here as well.

Also, if you don't have the experience in coaching nor the credentials or training, you might want to listen. I have had to alter my original thoughts in my coaching style over the years and define my target player which is the aspiring 3.5 to 5.0 player. I dont have a whole lot of tolerance for players that want to tap the ball, stay the same, chat, socialize, or whine when I ask them to do suicides. I want players, serious players that want to take their game to another level.

That is my focus.

[couch]

That is fine, I would not interrupt your style. We need coaches like that because not everyone can handle my style of coaching.

However, I will never apoligize for being demanding of players. I set the bar high and expect players to suck it up and get there. If they want to whine or call me names, that is fine, I just get tougher, more demanding, and a lot more stubborn. In other words. I am not afraid to "studder" when I count the pushups players are doing. I believe a coach should take players farther then players can take themselves. That is my style of coaching and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I will reward solid effort and will compliment it. I am never afraid to point out good effort. I do it here as well.

Also, if you don't have the experience in coaching nor the credentials or training, you might want to listen. I have had to alter my original thoughts in my coaching style over the years and define my target player which is the aspiring 3.5 to 5.0 player. I dont have a whole lot of tolerance for players that want to tap the ball, stay the same, chat, socialize, or whine when I ask them to do suicides. I want players, serious players that want to take their game to another level.

That is my focus.

I like your style BB. :)

[SlapShot]

That is fine, I would not interrupt your style. We need coaches like that because not everyone can handle my style of coaching.

However, I will never apoligize for being demanding of players. I set the bar high and expect players to suck it up and get there. If they want to whine or call me names, that is fine, I just get tougher, more demanding, and a lot more stubborn. In other words. I am not afraid to "studder" when I count the pushups players are doing. I believe a coach should take players farther then players can take themselves. That is my style of coaching and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I will reward solid effort and will compliment it. I am never afraid to point out good effort. I do it here as well.

Also, if you don't have the experience in coaching nor the credentials or training, you might want to listen. I have had to alter my original thoughts in my coaching style over the years and define my target player which is the aspiring 3.5 to 5.0 player. I dont have a whole lot of tolerance for players that want to tap the ball, stay the same, chat, socialize, or whine when I ask them to do suicides. I want players, serious players that want to take their game to another level.

That is my focus.

You should come coach my pansy hindquarters in MN. I dig it.

[BkK_b0y14]

to the OP, you hit back some shots that were out....does that count? haha. :)

[quicken]

Mariano puerta was a French Open finalist in 2005. He lost against Nadal, a formidable player :D

[slicelob]

yes i hear this "nadal" is a pretty good clay court player

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Interesting thread. I know there is a worlds record for rallying, but dont know what it is. A high rally count is only impressive if it's in a real match and you're hitting quality shots.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

I think if you can hit 30 balls in a row against the wall from the same distance as the baseline, you're pretty good too!


I agree. The wall is a great tool. I use to hit against the garage door for hours as i imagined i was hitting passing shots, returns, etc lol.

[J011yroger]

I agree. The wall is a great tool. I use to hit against the garage door for hours as i imagined i was hitting passing shots, returns, etc lol.

I hit against the garage door until my parents said "What the hell is all that noise!!!" then I rode my bike to the school, and hit against the wall there until I was too tired to move.

J

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

I once had the cops called on me at a park early in the morning for hitting against the wall :) My neighbors or parents never said to be quiet to me luckily. I was lucky growing up to have a nearby park with a wall and pretty good players to play with.

[split-step]

I think if you can hit 30 balls in a row against the wall from the same distance as the baseline, you're pretty good too!

This is like a 100 times much easier to do than with a partner.

[J011yroger]

This is like a 100 times much easier to do than with a partner.

Once you get a feel for it, yes. There is a knack to hitting against the wall, but once you get in a little groove, you can just keep going until your arm falls off.

J

[couch]

A high rally count is only impressive if it's in a real match and you're hitting quality shots.

If you can't do it in practice though you surely aren't going to be able to do it in a match when the pressure's on. That's why you practice and I think that's what we're talking about here.

[Leoboomanu]

That is fine, I would not interrupt your style. We need coaches like that because not everyone can handle my style of coaching.

However, I will never apoligize for being demanding of players. I set the bar high and expect players to suck it up and get there. If they want to whine or call me names, that is fine, I just get tougher, more demanding, and a lot more stubborn. In other words. I am not afraid to "studder" when I count the pushups players are doing. I believe a coach should take players farther then players can take themselves. That is my style of coaching and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I will reward solid effort and will compliment it. I am never afraid to point out good effort. I do it here as well.

Also, if you don't have the experience in coaching nor the credentials or training, you might want to listen. I have had to alter my original thoughts in my coaching style over the years and define my target player which is the aspiring 3.5 to 5.0 player. I dont have a whole lot of tolerance for players that want to tap the ball, stay the same, chat, socialize, or whine when I ask them to do suicides. I want players, serious players that want to take their game to another level.

That is my focus.

Thanks BB...

My main concern why I 'think' I can't adapt your style is that children at a young age could get discouraged at tennis if pushed too hard... Maybe I'll know when the time comes...

You should see me train... I talk to myself... I constantly am not satisfied...
That mentality is what I want to promote... I won't want him to wait for me to push him, he has to push himself... ANY TIPS?

Peace

[Leoboomanu]

If you can't do it in practice though you surely aren't going to be able to do it in a match when the pressure's on. That's why you practice and I think that's what we're talking about here.

Exactly... that is the point of this thread...

There's a tropical storm here, and no court time over the weekend...

Come on on let us see some videos people...

[Leoboomanu]

Thanks, Drak. :)

You look like you're spankin' the ball well in your vid. Man, I wish I could play on clay someday. The transition from indoor to outdoor hardcourts is very apparent to me (outdoor courts are ridiculously slow). I can only imagine how much slower clay would be and how much more fun it would be to have more time to set up for my shots.

Lookin' forward to your 30+ vid!

P.S. Here's a tip, if you use the subtitles like me, you don't have to count ;) :P

Actually, if you don't strive to hit long rallies by counting, there's less pressure, and you end up going way longer than if you were to count. At least, that's my theory. So just hit away and then count afterwards, with no particular goal count in mind. I just focus on keeping the ball in play.

Nice tip boojay...

[drakulie]

Having trouble loading up the 46 rally vid. Arghhhhhh! :evil:

[Leoboomanu]

###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###
"We let the hittin' do the talkin'..."

Members:
1) Boojay: Dreams of a 100 plus rally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU
2) *Drakulie: Too close and yet too far at 21!
You can do it!(as said by Rob Snieder in Adam Sandler Movies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWT4fj2NT4


Enjoy guys!

Damn this storm!!! new overgrip, new string, new balls... but WET COURTS!

*This page is also found in post#2 of this thread.

[Leoboomanu]

Having trouble loading up the 46 rally vid. Arghhhhhh! :evil:
Take your time...

[drakulie]

^^^Evertime I start loading it on youtube, >>> it crashes my PC. :evil:

[Topaz]

^^^You need a Mac! :)

[J011yroger]

^^^You need a Mac! :)

INFIDEL!!!

J

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

If you can't do it in practice though you surely aren't going to be able to do it in a match when the pressure's on. That's why you practice and I think that's what we're talking about here.

But on the flip side just because someone can post a long rally does not mean they can do it in a real match, running side to side etc. Fun thread but because someone posts a long rally dont make them a consistent player imo.

[Leoboomanu]

But on the flip side just because someone can post a long rally does not mean they can do it in a real match, running side to side etc. Fun thread but because someone posts a long rally dont make them a consistent player imo.

Come on man... What more do you want?

Hehehe but admit a long 'practice rally' is an indication of consistency...

Do you have a cam?

Peace

[Leoboomanu]

Heh heh...did I mention I still have nightmares about trying to run down his shots?

Now that I've read through the whole thread...I'm inspired. As a 3.5 *girl* my goal is a 30+ rally!!! With good depth, control, and spin.

That's the spirit!

Do you have a cam?

Peace

[couch]

But on the flip side just because someone can post a long rally does not mean they can do it in a real match, running side to side etc. Fun thread but because someone posts a long rally dont make them a consistent player imo.

But on the flip side ;), if they can do it in practice what's to say they "can't" do it in a real match. If I see someone do it in practice then I'm more likely to believe they can do it in a match. If someone can't rally for even 10 shots in practice what's to say they are going to rally for 20 shots in a match when the pressure's on?

I'll take my chances on the guys who can do it in practice. And besides, practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. So that's why I always practice like I play and in turn play like I practice.

[Bungalo Bill]

But on the flip side just because someone can post a long rally does not mean they can do it in a real match, running side to side etc. Fun thread but because someone posts a long rally dont make them a consistent player imo.

Boy, this is just getting more and more interesting as we go. When I talk about sustaining a long rally in practice, the goal is to have it transfer to your matches! Otherwise, why the heck do it!

You need to improve the breakdown point for all strokes appropriately. For groundstrokes, sustaining a long rally will transfer to your matches even if your rallies are never as long. The strength, patience, endurance, and consistency you develop in practice will transfer to the match in some way shape or form.

If a player can hit 30 slow easy balls just standing there, guess what? You dont remain there! You increase the difficulty to the point where you can do it on the run with fast hard spun topspin balls.

Please everyone, is this really difficult to understand?

[drakulie]

But on the flip side just because someone can post a long rally does not mean they can do it in a real match, running side to side etc. .

If one can't do it while practicing routine groundies, they aren't going to do it in a match, which is why, as others have stated, one should dedicate some practice time to duplicate things that will happen in matches.

[WBF]

drak: I agree for the most part, but some people have trouble with practice.

I can maintain forehands and backhands down the line, and forehands cross court, but for some reason I can't hit more than a few backhands cross court in practice! Yet in matches, I can hit these shots regularly (recently drilled these four, then played a guy in points and a set... you can guess what he attacked... didn't work for him though!).

I agree that you should be able to maintain these in practice though. Probably lack of discipline on my end (working harder in match vs. practice).

[drakulie]

^^^You make some great points. Some people don't do well when practicing, and yet, tear it up when a match starts.

But for the most part, if one can't hit 20, 30 shots in a row when having a casual rally while practicing, they will be hard pressed to hit 20-30 in a row, when there opponent is hitting tough shots, and making them run back and forth.

For me, I serve way better in matches than in pracice, and serve better in the last games of a match compared to the beginning. My serve becomes faster, and better placed.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

I see what you guys are saying but in practice if you both are trying to sustain as long as rally as possible you're not trying to hit winners for one, or any point construction, and are basically seeing who will make a error. It's a great drill.. The only negative i can think of in this is not going for your shots in a real match and just trying to keep it in play. In a real match it's all about controlling the point. One weak shot and you give your opponent the chance to control the point. What good is it to keep it in play if it's a weak shot and you let your opponent take over the point just because you are trying to get it in? That's all i'm saying. I would rather see someone go for their shots and make errors than to hit weak shots just to get it in. Maybe i'm missing the point here lol.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Boy, this is just getting more and more interesting as we go. When I talk about sustaining a long rally in practice, the goal is to have it transfer to your matches! Otherwise, why the heck do it!

I agree. Just a guess but anyone who posts a long rally in here, i would bet that both players agreed to try to sustain a long rally for the cameras.. So basically you are not hitting match play shots but just a game to try to keep the point going.

[Leoboomanu]

I see what you guys are saying but in practice if you both are trying to sustain as long as rally as possible you're not trying to hit winners for one, or any point construction, and are basically seeing who will make a error. It's a great drill.. The only negative i can think of in this is not going for your shots in a real match and just trying to keep it in play. In a real match it's all about controlling the point. One weak shot and you give your opponent the chance to control the point. What good is it to keep it in play if it's a weak shot and you let your opponent take over the point just because you are trying to get it in? That's all i'm saying. I would rather see someone go for their shots and make errors than to hit weak shots just to get it in. Maybe i'm missing the point here lol.

Please don't get me wrong...

But only a brainless player wastes his groundstroke consistency and lose to a trigger happy opponent...

In a singles match the one with the most consistent groundstroke has the greater chance of pulling the win...

Going for winners no matter how easy is still a gamble... And if you play with similar level players, you don't see many opportunities for easy winners, trust me...

Medium paced, well-placed and directed groundstokes are best for singles play...
Why? because you can add/or take some pace on the next groundstroke and disrupt the opponents timing... He may get bored and or get tired of running and go for the winner... either way his state-of-mind is not perfect for the winner, and more likely to miss...

I even have had medium paced winners off opponents too tired to run left and right...
This even works for volleys, just volley carefully to the opposite direction without intent of ending the point, if he catches with it, it's either a winner or floater(that you'll again just volley gently to the other direction)... He just spent a game's worth of energy on a gamble...

Peace

[Bungalo Bill]

I agree. Just a guess but anyone who posts a long rally in here, i would bet that both players agreed to try to sustain a long rally for the cameras.. So basically you are not hitting match play shots but just a game to try to keep the point going.

Yes, I see your point and agree with you.

When working on consistency and a repeatable stroke that doesn't breakdown, the goal is for it to transfer not only in the stroke area (dependability and repeatable) but also your confidence.

I know this "sustaining" a rally got watered down to just getting the ball over the net and not letting it bounce twice no matter how soft you have to hit it.

This is not what I am talking about and I am sure it is not what NBM was talking about.

If you can't sustain a rally at a certain pace, players need to slow it down. However, we are not implying that you stay there. Once you can do it consistently, you increase the difficulty to the point where it closely mirrors actual rally pace, spin, and ball movement. Obviously, you are not trying to hit winners but you are swinging the racquet at match pace speed or rally speed which is about 80% of your maximum power. This percentage is used in matches and practice.

Also, this is an exercise not an all encompassing solution to how you play a match. We are isolating one area of your game and further isolating it to a specific type of practice and building it much like you would do for your serve, volley's, footwork, etc...

If you can't sustain a rally at a good pace for more then four balls, guess what? This is a good indicator that your stroke is not repeatable for a decent length of time, and it is an indicator that you better get the point over quickly in a match because you are in trouble after the third ball not including your nerves and other things the match brings in. This also means you might either get impatient or decide to take more risk on which would increase your chances to error - especially in a match where you are pressured.

Developing a long sustainable rally in practice builds confidence in your stroke and your awareness that you can outlast your opponents ability in this area. Having confidence in your strokes helps keep you calm and can give you improved focus.

[couch]

Yes, I see your point and agree with you.

When working on consistency and a repeatable stroke that doesn't breakdown, the goal is for it to transfer not only in the stroke area but also your confidence.

I know this "sustaining" a rally got watered down to just getting the ball over the net and not letting it bounce twice no matter how soft you have to hit it.

This is not what I am talking about and I am sure it is not what NBM was talking about.

If you can't sustain a rally at a certain pace, players need to slow it down. However, we are not implying that your stay there. Once you can do it relatively consistently, you increase the difficulty to the point where it mirrors actual rally pace, spin, and ball movement. Obviously, you are not trying to hit winners but you are swinging the racquet at match pace speed or rally speed which is about 80% of your maximum power. This percentage is used in matches and practice.

Also, this is an exercise not an all emcompassing solution to how you play a match. This is isolating one area in your game and further isolating it to a specific type of practice and building it much like you would do for your serve, volley's, footwork, etc...

If you can not sustain a rally at a good pace for more then four balls, guess what? This is a good indicator that your stroke is not repeatable for a good length of time, and it is an indicator that you better get the point over with because you are in trouble after the third ball given your nerves and other things the match brings in. This also means you might either get impatient or decide to take more risk on which would increase your chances to error - especially in a match where you are pressured.

Developing a long sustainable rally in practice builds confidence in your stroke and your awareness that you can outlast your opponents ability in this area. Having confidence in your strokes helps keep you calm and can give you improved focus.

Ditto. :) I was going to say the same thing but don't have time to write it all down, nor do as good a job as BB.

[drakulie]

I see what you guys are saying but in practice if you both are trying to sustain as long as rally as possible you're not trying to hit winners for one,

Have you ever watched a pro match???? If both players are hitting solid deep shots cross court, they don't go for winners either. They continue the status quo, until one coughs one up that the other could jump all over.

or any point construction,

There are lots of ways to construction points. One is to hit heavy shots cross court, until you get a manageable shot you could do somenthing else with.

and are basically seeing who will make a error.

Exaclty, at the higher levels, the first player that "blinks", is the one who is usually at the short end of the stick. And by "error" it does no necessarily mean hitting into the net, or long. It could mean hitting one short because the opponent broke down their stroke, and as a result is able to step up and hit that outright winner, or come into the net, etc.

It's a great drill.. The only negative i can think of in this is not going for your shots in a real match and just trying to keep it in play.

Again, I got news for you>>> from beginners to the pros>>> the one who "keeps it in play" is **ALWAYS** the one that wins.

In a real match it's all about controlling the point. One weak shot and you give your opponent the chance to control the point.

Thanks for finally joining the discussion.


What good is it to keep it in play if it's a weak shot and you let your opponent take over the point just because you are trying to get it in?

Who said otherwise???? This is what we have been discussing. Rallying to improve your strokes, so that you are consistently hitting the ball deep, with good pace, and therefore, cannot be taken advantage of.

[drakulie]

Just a guess but anyone who posts a long rally in here, i would bet that both players agreed to try to sustain a long rally

Again, isn't this the point of practicing????

For example: When you drill with someone, you should be practicing cross court shots. **This means** that both players have agreed to **ONLY** hit cross court shots, and keep the rallies going for as long as possible.

Let me ask you>>>>>

Are you one of those people, that when practicing, you get fed the first ball and just hit it as hard as you can, and no- where near your practice partner??? And this is continued throughout the course of your practice session until your partner gets fed up and leaves, because all he is doing is feeding you balls, ???????

[Bungalo Bill]

I agree. Just a guess but anyone who posts a long rally in here, i would bet that both players agreed to try to sustain a long rally for the cameras.. So basically you are not hitting match play shots but just a game to try to keep the point going.

I can see your point. I really can. Perhaps our perspective is a bit different. At first, I can guess that nobody would be able to sustain a match pace rally on their first try. The purpose is to build up to that and therefore have to start lower then what would transfer to the match.

However, practicing this will still have some things transfer like conditioning, stamina, keeping the ball in play, and other things. So saying that nothing will transfer is as incorrect as saying all of it will.

It is a drill that works on an aspect of your game. It does not solve your match dilemmas. It is not the Holy Grail.

[Leoboomanu]

Have you ever watched a pro match???? If both players are hitting solid deep shots cross court, they don't go for winners either. They continue the status quo, until one coughs one up that the other could jump all over.
There are lots of ways to construction points. One is to hit heavy shots cross court, until you get a manageable shot you could do somenthing else with.
Again, I got news for you>>> from beginners to the pros>>> the one who "keeps it in play" is **ALWAYS** the one that wins.


Yes and yes...

Again, isn't this the point of practicing????

For example: When you drill with someone, you should be practicing cross court shots. **This means** that both players have agreed to **ONLY** hit cross court shots, and keep the rallies going for as long as possible.
Let me ask you>>>>>
Are you one of those people, that when practicing, you get fed the first ball and just hit it as hard as you can, and no- where near your practice partner??? And this is continued throughout the course of your practice session until your partner gets fed up and leaves, because all he is doing is feeding you balls, ???????

People who are sweating more due to running than actually hitting?:-?

At least the footwork will improve...:)

[Leoboomanu]

Where the video Sir Drak?:)

[drakulie]

People who are sweating more due to running than actually hitting?:-?

At least the footwork will improve...:)

You are so right. I can't stand playing/practicing with people like this. People who have no idea how to drill. For example, they say they want to practice volleys. So you stand at the baseline and feed them the first ball, only to see them hit it where you can't get to it, such as doing a drop shot. Then you feed them the second and third ball, and they do the same thing. They just hit 3 volleys, and now you have to go and pick up the balls, only to do the same thing again, and again. Rather than hitting it back to the opponent, so the opponent could hit it back, and so-forth. jeez :roll:

As for my vid, I have tried several times to upload it. For whatever reason, I keep getting a message that says, "Youtube loading error" followed by about a million scrambled numbers. I think it has somehting to do with my computer and when I downloaded it on to my pc from my camera. I had a hard time doing that as well. The video must be corrupted or something. I will try and take another one, and upload it this weekend. I have a drilling session with a 5.5 so it should be good.

[Leoboomanu]

Yey!

The weather's getting better here... I am hoping to get my video too...

Good luck to us both...:)

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Who said otherwise???? This is what we have been discussing. Rallying to improve your strokes, so that you are consistently hitting the ball deep, with good pace, and therefore, cannot be taken advantage of.

I thought because you guys are trying to play 30-40 shot rallys that the objective is not hitting with pace-depth- but just trying to get it in? Watch your video and see how many short balls you hit. All i'm saying is a true match play rally of 20- 30-40 balls, running side to side back and fourth, is true ability to sustain a rally. Not just hitting crosscourt and agreeing to try to keep the point going.



Let me ask you>>>>>

Are you one of those people, that when practicing, you get fed the first ball and just hit it as hard as you can, and no- where near your practice partner??? And this is continued throughout the course of your practice session until your partner gets fed up and leaves, because all he is doing is feeding you balls, ???????

Not at all. Although sometimes i do go for some winners occasionally. I'm not a big fan of practicing much, warm up for 10-15 and start the match :)

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

However, practicing this will still have some things transfer like conditioning, stamina, keeping the ball in play, and other things. So saying that nothing will transfer is as incorrect as saying all of it will.


True but would you agree that you really dont have to do these drills to learn the ability? I'm not aware of any teacher doing these specific drills, trying to sustain as long as rally possible. It's more about teaching correct technique and footwork. If you have a noticeable flaws in either it really dont matter how much you practice does it?

[WBF]

Ultra: You trade off things like pace for consistency. When you drill like this, you should ideally be going for shots that you would hit in a match. These shots should maximize your consistency, while minimizing the chances that your opponent can hit a probable winner.

Also, in case you have never seen a professional match, these guys hit short very often as well. These short balls just have other aspects that make them harder to capitalize on. A short ball that bounces high or has no spin is obviously going to be easy to put away, but how about a short ball with good pace that stays low?

I feel like you are considering just trying to keep as many balls in without worrying about anything else. Most people who drill like this try to maintain these rallies while also maintaining things like depth, pace, spin, and so forth.

*edit* And if you aren't away of people using these drills... What? Visit *any* college tennis team or serious coach, and I guarantee that at some point, they work on maintaining long, solid quality rallies.

Heres a clip of a guy at a national open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOA75-bZ4F8.

Note how he doesn't really attack for the entire point, hitting mostly safe shots. Note how his opponents wasn't exactly hitting the baseline or particularly deep as well. Sitters are unacceptable, but it would be ludicrous to imagine that hitting deep balls every shot is remotely necessary. Also note how he tries to attack a short ball at the end of the point, and fails (you hear the ball hit the net, he lost that point).

[Bungalo Bill]

True but would you agree that you really dont have to do these drills to learn the ability? I'm not aware of any teacher doing these specific drills, trying to sustain as long as rally possible. It's more about teaching correct technique and footwork. If you have a noticeable flaws in either it really dont matter how much you practice does it?

To learn how to hit a ball? No. There are different exercises for that.

We are talking about the area of consistency and developing a repeatable/dependable stroke. We are also talking about the person posting the video that was not able to sustain a rally with the balls he was receiving and the talent/skill level he was at.

Working on sustaining a rally should be part of your drills not the sole drill. As far as coaches working on it? Most of them are in the technique stage, however, it doesn't mean the drill is not important. shouldn't be used, is meaningless, and coaches don't use it.

I think you are trying to qualify your opinion on the reasons not to do this drill or that it is not important. I don't think you will get very far with me on that one.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Also, in case you have never seen a professional match, these guys hit short very often as well. These short balls just have other aspects that make them harder to capitalize on. A short ball that bounces high or has no spin is obviously going to be easy to put away, but how about a short ball with good pace that stays low?

Nadal dont hit that deep on his forehand, most of his shots to a right handers backhand hit the service box, and kicks high which cause all kinds a trouble. I agree depth isn't the only thing to worry about. I paid $50 one time for a lesson and that's all the guy said was keep it deep the whole hour.


I feel like you are considering just trying to keep as many balls in without worrying about anything else. Most people who drill like this try to maintain these rallies while also maintaining things like depth, pace, spin, and so forth.

If you look at a player like agassi, he's pretty one demensional from the baseline. Not loads of topspin but usually just punishes the ball off both wings and the main objective is to run his opponents silly. But later in his career he did become more consistent, than going for flat out winners.. Not all players play the same. Some use topspin and consistency more than a power game like agassi. Nadal relys on heavy topspin and angles etc.

*edit* And if you aren't away of people using these drills... What? Visit *any* college tennis team or serious coach, and I guarantee that at some point, they work on maintaining long, solid quality rallies.

Heres a clip of a guy at a national open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOA75-bZ4F8.

Note how he doesn't really attack for the entire point, hitting mostly safe shots. Note how his opponents wasn't exactly hitting the baseline or particularly deep as well. Sitters are unacceptable, but it would be ludicrous to imagine that hitting deep balls every shot is remotely necessary. Also note how he tries to attack a short ball at the end of the point, and fails (you hear the ball hit the net, he lost that point).

I agree hitting deep nowdays is not as important as it used to be with wood racquets and flat strokes. Big topspin players can get away with it. Someone like agassi though you wont see many hit in the service box.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Working on sustaining a rally should be part of your drills not the sole drill. As far as coaches working on it? Most of them are in the technique stage, however, it doesn't mean the drill is not important. shouldn't be used, is meaningless, and coaches don't use it.


Not saying it's meaningless, but if you have good technique and footwork, conditioning, it's almost a given that player will be able to ball and sustain ralleys.

[drakulie]

Watch your video and see how many short balls you hit.

This is what I like about you>>>> your attention to detail. :roll: In the vid I posted, it would be impossible for you to see where my shots landed, because the only thing you see in the video is me hitting shots, and where my opponents shots landed. Yes, the guy I was hitting with kept hitting **me** short balls, but *ALL* of my shots landed well past the service line.


I'm not a big fan of practicing much, warm up for 10-15 and start the match :)

This explains why you have no concept of what we are discussing here.

[TokyopunK]

Guys I am going to post the sissiest 30+ rally's in a couple of minutes!

[TokyopunK]

Before I post the link, let me say one thing....

My hitting partner is a noob.......like he's 2.5-3.0 maybe.
I am obviously a 7.0 maybe 7.5.
So this was indeed a challenge to sustain a 30+ rally with him.
I had to hit every ball kind of high and also I could not hit it to his backhand thrice in a row, because he cannot hit a backhand three times in a row!

And the volley part.......idk what the heck that was..... it was magic.

TokyopunK's Top 10 Tennis Tricks coming in < a month.


OK here you go
3rd member to the club???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhOKNbk4Bo

[Bungalo Bill]

Not saying it's meaningless, but if you have good technique and footwork, conditioning, it's almost a given that player will be able to ball and sustain ralleys.

My gosh, just because you have these traits does not mean it is a given. Your perception on this whole thing is way off.

Having good technique, good footwork, and conditioning does not automatically develop a sustainable and repeatable stroke that won't breakdown from repeated replies.

Please, make some sense.

[azn_tomato]

Rofl, i actually laughed when you drop kicked your racquet on your first attempt. Talk about caring for equipment

[TokyopunK]

Rofl, i actually laughed when you drop kicked your racquet on your first attempt. Talk about caring for equipment

Yeah I was mad, this wasn't really attempt #1, more like attempt #1000... and then he messes up at 29 (im counting in my head).........GOLLY G!!!!

[WildVolley]

Before I post the link, let me say one thing....

My hitting partner is a noob.......like he's 2.5-3.0 maybe.
I am obviously a 7.0 maybe 7.5.
So this was indeed a challenge to sustain a 30+ rally with him.
I had to hit every ball kind of high and also I could not hit it to his backhand thrice in a row, because he cannot hit a backhand three times in a row!

And the volley part.......idk what the heck that was..... it was magic.

TokyopunK's Top 10 Tennis Tricks coming in < a month.


OK here you go
3rd member to the club???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhOKNbk4Bo


LOL! The sloppy form, the bad footwork (spinning after hitting a shot), the Vangelis music, and the racquet kicking. Classic video.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

This is what I like about you>>>> your attention to detail. :roll: In the vid I posted, it would be impossible for you to see where my shots landed, because the only thing you see in the video is me hitting shots, and where my opponents shots landed. Yes, the guy I was hitting with kept hitting **me** short balls, but *ALL* of my shots landed well past the service line.

Sorry drakulie i thought you posted your partner hitting the rally :roll: I meant the person that was giving you short balls. You looked to be hitting well. But your partner just seemed to try to get the ball in play.


This explains why you have no concept of what we are discussing here.

Sustaining a rally? From your video you both where hitting crosscourt and both agreed to try to keep the point going as long as possible?

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

My gosh, just because you have these traits does not mean it is a given.

Yes you also need to have talent, hand eye cordination,etc. Not everybody has the ability to play high level tennis. But if they have all the fundamentals down, their is a high probability. From what i've seen technique and footwork is the most noticeable things i see in lower level players.

Having good technique, good footwork, and conditioning does not automatically develop a sustainable and repeatable stroke that won't breakdown from repeated replies.

Well in the case of NickB, what was it that you noticed that hindered him from sustaining a rally??

[drakulie]

Tokyo, thanks for taking the time to not only video that, but for posting it. I have been laughing for the last 10 minutes. That drop kick is one of the funniest things I have seen on a court. LMAO! CLASSIC!!!!!

PS: Hats off to both of you guys for doing your best to keep the ball in play.

[Bungalo Bill]

Yes you also need to have talent, hand eye cordination,etc. Not everybody has the ability to play high level tennis. But if they have all the fundamentals down, their is a high probability. From what i've seen technique and footwork is the most noticeable things i see in lower level players.

You are talking in circles.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

You are talking in circles.


Maybe, but you learn true consistentcy by correct technique and footwork. For someone that thinks doing consistency drills is key to being consistent, i dont agree with that. But i'm not saying it wont help, of course it does. I would rather just have someone feed me from up at the net with a bucket than agree with a opponent to sustain as long as rally as possible. Anyways i dont mean to spoil any fun, keep the vids comming. :)

[J011yroger]

Maybe, but you learn true consistentcy by correct technique and footwork. For someone that thinks doing consistency drills is key to being consistent, i dont agree with that. But i'm not saying it wont help, of course it does. I would rather just have someone feed me from up at the net with a bucket than agree with a opponent to sustain as long as rally as possible. Anyways i dont mean to spoil any fun, keep the vids comming. :)

Dead ball drilling for advanced players? How revolting!

J

[drakulie]

^^^Excuse me for saying this, but WTF kind of tennis do you play??? You would rather have someone feed you from the net, than to actually hit back and forth with a hitting partner???

Little bit of advice for the first time you actually go out and play a match:

There won't be an instructor at the net feeding you balls to hit to your opponent.

[J011yroger]

^^^ Well he did get to 5.0 in 2 years from the age of 14-16 with the help of his much ballyhooed female instructor.

Maybe we have it wrong Drak.

J

[boojay]

Little bit of advice for the first time you actually go out and play a match:

There won't be an instructor at the net feeding you balls to hit to your opponent.

WHAT!?! That's preposterous!! How in the world will I learn how to hit a ball when there is an instructor at the net feeding me balls to hit to my opponent then? HOOOow, I ask??

Oh wait, you're talking about playing tennis.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Dead ball drilling for advanced players? How revolting!

J

You seen TonLars video?

[J011yroger]

You seen TonLars video?

Yes, and I didn't see any dead ball drilling in any of them.

J

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

^^^ Well he did get to 5.0 in 2 years from the age of 14-16 with the help of his much ballyhooed female instructor.

Yup, she could teach way better than the majority of males i worked with.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Yes, and I didn't see any dead ball drilling in any of them.

J

Wasent his coach, whoever, feeding him balls from a bucket up close to the net? Hitting 60 forehands crosscourt is no problem. Whats wrong 'practicing' like that, or using a ball machine?

[drakulie]

Wasent his coach, whoever, feeding him balls from a bucket up close to the net? Hitting 60 forehands crosscourt is no problem. Whats wrong 'practicing' like that, or using a ball machine?

As NBMJ stated, there isn't anything wrong with practicing that way. However, you have to sometimes hit with a partner. This way, you learn how to react to the different spins, pace, etc that you partner gives you (the same as you would get in match play).

PS: Jolly, Boojay>>> I give up.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Little bit of advice for the first time you actually go out and play a match:

There won't be an instructor at the net feeding you balls to hit to your opponent.


True, and your opponent sure as heck is not going to agree to try to sustain as long as rallys possible. That's why it's called a match.

[boojay]

True, and your opponent sure as heck is not going to agree to try to sustain as long as rallys possible. That's why it's called a match.

That wasn't the debate though. You're basically arguing that having a ball fed to you will build a stronger foundation for consistency than rallying with a partner (or instructor).

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

That wasn't the debate though. You're basically arguing that having a ball fed to you will build a stronger foundation for consistency than rallying with a partner (or instructor).

You would be fortunate that's for sure. I would love to have someone to practice like this with. Most drills do come from feeding and also the use of another opponent. Drills is a key way to hone your fundamentals. Any teacher worth his salt should agree with this.

[drakulie]

your opponent sure as heck is not going to agree to try to sustain as long as rallys possible. That's why it's called a match.

Wrong! If your opponent wants to win, they will do everyting necessary to keep the ball in play, (like what we are talking about here) as long as necessary to win the point.

[boojay]

I also do quite a bit of teaching/drilling w. advanced players sustaining ralleys with me at net and them at the baseline. there are benefits to doing that as well especially aerobically and footworkwise as the lesson has to recover more quickly......and i dont have to kill myself hanging w. some kid who can run forever and a day from the backcourt who can pummel the ball ;)

You may have gotten things mixed up, NoMo. The issue is feeding versus rallying, not net versus baseline. In any case, you seem to be in support of rallying, whether it be from the baseline or the net, which is what I'm in favor of as well.

[boojay]

You would be fortunate that's for sure. I would love to have someone to practice like this with. Most drills do come from feeding and also the use of another opponent. Drills is a key way to hone your fundamentals. Any teacher worth his salt should agree with this.

Certainly drills and being fed balls have their place, but you can't possibly think drilling alone will better prepare you for match play. Obviously, you do think that, and that's unfortunate for you.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Certainly drills and being fed balls have their place, but you can't possibly think drilling alone will better prepare you for match play.
Obviously, you do think that, and that's unfortunate for you.


It definitely prepares you for match play. I never said drilling alone is all you need, but like someone said if you cant do it in practice what makes you think you'll be able to do it in a match? One simple drill, say on the backhand is, student starts off in the middle of the baseline, teacher feeds from close to the net to the backhand, student hits a down the line backhand, retreats back to the middle of court, repeat repeat etc. We will find out how good that backhand and footwork is right away. With drilling you can improve your backhand in as little time possible. You either can hit consistent shots or you cant. You would be suprised just how effective drilling can be. Especially if you're receiving instruction.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Wrong! If your opponent wants to win, they will do everyting necessary to keep the ball in play, (like what we are talking about here) as long as necessary to win the point.


lol. The goal in a match is to control points, going for the open court etc. Not just trying to keep it in. Although many do try to play like that and love when you make errors. Doing everything necessary to keep it in yes, but not just to keep a rally going for a high count.

If you really want to prove consistency with video there are far better drills imo than just both players agreeing to rally as long as possible. The drill i mention above is FAR more better way to tell if you can hit a consistent backhand down the line, crosscourt, also moving from side to side.

[couch]

I'm glad I got out of this one a long time ago. ;)

[SlapShot]

I'm glad I got out of this one a long time ago. ;)

+1

I'm still chuckling at the thought that dead ball feeding drills are going to be effective for building rally-tough strokes.

[SlapShot]

It definitely prepares you for match play. I never said drilling alone is all you need, but like someone said if you cant do it in practice what makes you think you'll be able to do it in a match? One simple drill, say on the backhand is, student starts off in the middle of the baseline, teacher feeds from close to the net to the backhand, student hits a down the line backhand, retreats back to the middle of court, repeat repeat etc. We will find out how good that backhand and footwork is right away. With drilling you can improve your backhand in as little time possible. You either can hit consistent shots or you cant. You would be suprised just how effective drilling can be. Especially if you're receiving instruction.

How is knowing what stroke you're going to hit next going to improve your rallying more than rallying will?

I don't disagree that feeding drills will help you place strokes, but it's an awful lot easier when you have an idea where the next ball is going to be.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

How is knowing what stroke you're going to hit next going to improve your rallying more than rallying will?

I didn't say it does. But for 'practicing' yes the person feeding will be very consistent if you want to hit 60 backhands in a row. If you want to groove your strokes you need repeatability. But i agree once you have the fundamentals down i would worry about match play. But you still can benefit from drills and having balls fed to you anytime. To many guys here obviously never took lessons and drills and learned correct technique, grips,footwork, from a teacher.

I don't disagree that feeding drills will help you place strokes, but it's an awful lot easier when you have an idea where the next ball is going to be.

True, but even if you know where it's going to be, like a second serve to your backhand, can you say you can consistently hit down the line or crosscourt? That's what drilling does, gives you the confidence to know you are capable hitting those shots.

[SlapShot]

True, but even if you know where it's going to be, like a second serve to your backhand, can you say you can consistently hit down the line or crosscourt? That's what drilling does, gives you the confidence to know you are capable hitting those shots.

Any 4.0 or above player will be able to spot that shot 9 times out of 10 if they are able to anticipate it.

If you can't hit consistently down the line or crosscourt, your problems are larger than simply rallying.

[SlapShot]

chuckle on...it's clear you dont know much about the subject matter.

Are you saying that a dead ball feeding drill can replace rallying?

Both have their uses, but I don't think that anyone will claim that dead ball drills can replace rallying.

[rocket]

I didn't say it does. But for 'practicing' yes the person feeding will be very consistent if you want to hit 60 backhands in a row. If you want to groove your strokes you need repeatability. But i agree once you have the fundamentals down i would worry about match play. But you still can benefit from drills and having balls fed to you anytime. To many guys here obviously never took lessons and drills and learned correct technique, grips,footwork, from a teacher.

I guess this guy needs to groove his strokes too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIT3PzVlRx8

Also this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDpOnM3u7vY

And this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFxnqpUT_po

Of course you don't have to rally if you don't want to, but it'll bring you benefits that you will realize in match play.

[SlapShot]

Wasent his coach, whoever, feeding him balls from a bucket up close to the net? Hitting 60 forehands crosscourt is no problem. Whats wrong 'practicing' like that, or using a ball machine?

As far as I saw, they were rallying from a feed, as long as we're talking about the save video.

I've hit with Tony, and I can tell you right now that he can sustain a rally until you miss, regardless of pace. That doesn't just come from hitting feeds and matchplay.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

As far as I saw, they were rallying from a feed, as long as we're talking about the save video.

I've hit with Tony, and I can tell you right now that he can sustain a rally until you miss, regardless of pace. That doesn't just come from hitting feeds and matchplay.


What's it come from then?

[SlapShot]

What's it come from then?

You'd have to ask him, but I suspect that he did a LOT of rallying through his younger years and college, along with the match play and drilling.

I know that personally, my strokes have improved the most when I've simply gone out with a partner and really tried to groove the ball CC, DTL, and inside out from both wings.

[WBF]

Ultra2HolyGrail, I think you have a warped view of drills and so forth. Sure, they can help some people, but they are often unnecessary, and there are plenty of other ways to improve. I also would imagine they are fairly rare once you reach a certain level... Just seems like theres not much need for it.

Personally, I don't see why you would want to do some drill where you know what happens unless you are a bit of a beginner, or are changing something major in your stroke and want to focus on that (vs. footwork and everything else required within a rally or rally-based drill).

[SlapShot]

of course not. now you are just creating something that i never said...seems to me that might indicate you are at least aware you dont know what you are talking about as you try to flip your wrongness back at me..thats' a start

I looked back at my statement, and I should have worded it better. A better way to put it would be that I am chuckling at the thought that doing ONLY dead ball feeding drills will be truly effective.

I'm sure that any teaching pro (yourself included) will say that you need a balance in order to truly have match tough strokes.

[boojay]

of course not. now you are just creating something that i never said...seems to me that might indicate you are at least aware you dont know what you are talking about as you try to flip your wrongness back at me..thats' a start

Actually NoMo, I kinda got the same vibe from your previous post as SlapShot did. I didn't think he meant any harm with his reply, it was merely a misunderstanding, but it seems we're all on the same page that receiving feeds can't possibly be as effective at building consistent strokes as being able to sustain a rally (with a pace appropriate to one's level).


Personally, I don't see why you would want to do some drill where you know what happens unless you are a bit of a beginner,


This would actually clarify a lot things and why Ultra has the view he does. I recall wishing I had a ball machine to hit with when I was first learning how to play tennis and could NOT sustain a long rally with a hitting partner. I suppose in a few years he'll finally see the light after he's finished learning how to hit shots with control.

[Bungalo Bill]

I looked back at my statement, and I should have worded it better. A better way to put it would be that I am chuckling at the thought that doing ONLY dead ball feeding drills will be truly effective.

I'm sure that any teaching pro (yourself included) will say that you need a balance in order to truly have match tough strokes.

Guys, you have to realize that several of the folks (coaches and x-coaches) have been around the block once or twice both from a playing perspective and a coaching perspective. Anyone that has demonstrated teaching knowledge has studied and experienced the game enough to provide a rounded view on things.

This topic is about being able to sustain a long-rally. I don't know of many people, unless they lack common sense, would put it in stone that ONLY a 30-ball rally can be used to tell what level a player is at or ONLY a 30-ball rally is used to help you win matches. Or only dead-balls should be used in a rally. Are we really thinking here?

It is farfetched to think that NBM, other coaches, other people with common sense, and myself is suggesting that ONLY the Directionals are to be used. Only the 30-ball rally is used to rate a player or make a player better. Only onehanded backhands are to be used. Only the SW grip is to be used. Only dead-balls should be used in a rally.

We are talking about an isolated topic that has many benefits. Why are we arguing about this when all of us can see the benefits?!!!! This is not a solution to your match play but can help you with aspects of your game, especially if you are put in a situation were you need to use the training!

It is training folks, it is a drill, it is a tool to use to get better. It is not the Holy Grail, it is not the only drill that will produce miracles in your game.

NBM was clearly, and I mean clearly not suggesting that a player should ONLY use dead-balls in their practices. He is suggesting that on occasion that it would certainly not hurt, and can be used to draw out areas to work on that will transfer to the match.

Case in point, the Wardlaw Directionals. Nobody said it is the Holy Grail to tennis. However, some folks made it out to be and tried to isolate it into something nobody was saying. They couldn't read the information with common sense but instead made up a bunch of junk around it. So it took THIRTY-MILLION posts to finally get it back to a useful thread with some common sense.

Ridiculous.

[SlapShot]

true that.

if you'll excuse me now, i am off to the guitar forum. i'm a lousy guitar player, never taught the guitar, but in TW fashion I am going there to instruct people who really know what they are talking about and twist their words all about rather than listening and learning something

have a nice day and thank you for calling AT&T....;)

Not Harmony-Central, bychance? I've been hanging out there all day. ;)

[boojay]

Hey, I've been playing guitar for over 10 years. I'll trade you guitar lessons for tennis lessons!

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Ultra2HolyGrail, I think you have a warped view of drills and so forth. Sure, they can help some people, but they are often unnecessary, and there are plenty of other ways to improve. I also would imagine they are fairly rare once you reach a certain level... Just seems like theres not much need for it.

Somewhat true. But if you never had training, it often results in lifelong tennis riddled with bad habits, technique, etc.

Personally, I don't see why you would want to do some drill where you know what happens unless you are a bit of a beginner, or are changing something major in your stroke and want to focus on that (vs. footwork and everything else required within a rally or rally-based drill).

That's why if you never had training you can't comprehend it or be able teach tennis.

[drakulie]

lol. The goal in a match is to control points, going for the open court etc. Not just trying to keep it in.

With this statement, you have shown how clueless you are.

On one hand, you say the goal in a match is to control the point, and on the other hand, it doesn't matter if you keep it in??????

FACT, it is impossible to win a point, if the ball goes out of the playing field (unless the ump messes up the call).

Part of controlling the point, is not only, and most importantly, keeping it in play, but also to hit it deep so that you don't relinquish control of the point to your opponent. Sometimes, neither player has control of the point, which is why it is so important when you practice to rally that exact scenario, so you are prepared for it in match play.

The drill i mention above is FAR more better way to tell if you can hit a consistent backhand down the line, crosscourt, also moving from side to side.

No, it's not. If this were the case, not one respected Top coach in the world would have their student practing for hours on end with a practice partner. They would just feed them an endless amount of balls.

Not *ONE* pro this year at the Sony Ericsson did this type of drill when practcing. They all had practice partners ( at the other baseline) and practiced cross courts, down the lines, volleys, etc.

[Bungalo Bill]

I can bet, based on the type of posts I see, that only a few of you actually know what a good practice is.

I could safely wager that many of you would be surprised at what a solid series of practices could do for your match play.

We are not talking about just showing up to hit balls, listen to some guy say "bend your knees", run around a little, or maybe do come crosscourt rallies, etc...

A true practice is geared to building you up farther then what you can do on your own. Good practices should be designed to extend your skills in the match, to push you, to challenge you, and ultimately take you much farther in a match so you can see the benefit of practice.

If practice wasn't important, or I should say practicing correctly wasn't important, then why do football players need to practice? What about baseball players? Why?

There is no doubt that many players and coaches fall short in designing practices solely geared to improving players. Many times it is just a "lesson" you are going to. An isolated learning environment that is lacking any real connection to actual play.

Maybe a thread should be started on what is a real practice. How does a coach/player build a series of practices designed to improve the player and have skill development transfer to the match.

This is practice that transfers to the match. :) You run your butt off, and for those of you developing your technique, you run your butt off while your developing your technique. Of course, this is my style it may not be right for every player or coach.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8484321388841532253&q=&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8484321388841532253&q=&hl=en

If you are not practicing with intensity, stay home.

[J011yroger]

Wasent his coach, whoever, feeding him balls from a bucket up close to the net? Hitting 60 forehands crosscourt is no problem. Whats wrong 'practicing' like that, or using a ball machine?

I suggest you re-watch the video.

J

[SlapShot]

Maybe a thread should be started on what is a real practice. How does a coach/player build a series of practices designed to improve the player and have skill development transfer to the match.


In all seriousness, that would probably be a huge help.

[Bungalo Bill]

In all seriousness, that would probably be a huge help.

Then let's start it! Keep in mind, that coaches will come at the game and practice a bit different. Some maybe more disciplinary and others more encouraging. It is all good. :)

[SlapShot]

Then let's start it! Keep in mind, that coaches will come at the game and practice a bit different. Some maybe more disciplinary and others more encouraging. It is all good. :)

Done, and done.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

With this statement, you have shown how clueless you are.

On one hand, you say the goal in a match is to control the point, and on the other hand, it doesn't matter if you keep it in??????

FACT, it is impossible to win a point, if the ball goes out of the playing field (unless the ump messes up the call)

Dont you understand the difference between practice and match play? Yes you practice to hit many shots but in match play it's a different ball game. Do you play just to try to keep it in the court at all costs without ever taking risks?

Part of controlling the point, is not only, and most importantly, keeping it in play, but also to hit it deep so that you don't relinquish control of the point to your opponent. Sometimes, neither player has control of the point, which is why it is so important when you practice to rally that exact scenario, so you are prepared for it in match play.

No kidding, i never though of that.



No, it's not. If this were the case, not one respected Top coach in the world would have their student practing for hours on end with a practice partner. They would just feed them an endless amount of balls.

Not *ONE* pro this year at the Sony Ericsson did this type of drill when practcing. They all had practice partners ( at the other baseline) and practiced cross courts, down the lines, volleys, etc.

Yes all pro's are pretty much beyond drills. They have already had that foundation installed when they where kids. I'm saying many here NEVER had no foundation, never had lessons, is self taught, in which case many would benefit greatly from these drills instead of thinking they dont need to.

[Bungalo Bill]

Dont you understand the difference between practice and match play? Yes you practice to hit many shots but in match play it's a different ball game. Do you play just to try to keep it in the court at all costs without ever taking risks?

Actually, it is YOU that doesn't understand. In practice, you also work on hitting out, taking risks, hitting the lower percentage shot, improving your recognition of the short ball, your recovery, your intensity, your mental toughness. You work on technique, overheads, serves, volleys, hustle and anything else you can think of to improve your game. If you dont think that is what practice is for, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Itis painfully obvious, you have never really practiced! lol


Yes all pro's are pretty much beyond drills. They have already had that foundation installed when they where kids. I'm saying many here NEVER had no foundation, never had lessons, is self taught, in which case many would benefit greatly from these drills instead of thinking they dont need to.

Actually, nobody is beyond drills. Players and coaches simply have different focus when it comes to practice and drills. When Andy Roddick wanted to improve his net play how do you think it happened? Wake up man!

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Actually, it is YOU that doesn't understand. In practice, you also work on hitting out, taking risks, hitting the lower percentage shot, improving your recognition of the short ball, your recovery, your intensity, your mental toughness. You work on technique, overheads, serves, volleys, hustle and anything else you can think of to improve your game. If you dont think that is what practice is for, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Itis painfully obvious, you have never really practiced! lol




Actually, nobody is beyond drills. Players and coaches simply have different focus when it comes to practice and drills. When Andy Roddick wanted to improve his net play how do you think it happened? Wake up man!


Roddick improved his net game? :roll:

[drakulie]

^^^BB, thanks. This poster is a tool, has no clue, and has probably never even picked up a racquet.

I leave it to your infinite wisdon to do with him what you will. :)

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

^^^BB, thanks. This poster is a tool, has no clue, and has probably never even picked up a racquet.

I leave it to your infinite wisdon to do with him what you will. :)


Drak your just mad becauae you know i'm right. You probably never took a lesson, and is self taught. You barely breaking 100mph is laughable and what's even more funny is your proud of it lol. Just like sampras lol. Whatever man.

[drakulie]

^^You are correct. 40+ posters on this thread, in addition to every tour on the ATP/WTA, colleges, futures, etc are wrong, and you are correct.

[Bungalo Bill]

Roddick improved his net game? :roll:

Yeah, I can tell the type of person you are, you twist things into many other meanings that nobody is saying.

Actually, I said "WANTED TO IMPROVE HIS NET GAME". And, in actuality, he did improve his net play and his ability to come to net. Is he Sampras at the net? Nobody is saying that. However, what you fail to understand (nor care to admit) is he PRACTICED his net game to get better at it.

ONCE AGAIN, HE PRACTICED. Get it? PRACTICED????

Believe me, your net game is a far cry from his and he isn't even close to being the best out there. So you might want to practice! LOL!

[Bungalo Bill]

^^^BB, thanks. This poster is a tool, has no clue, and has probably never even picked up a racquet.

I leave it to your infinite wisdon to do with him what you will. :)

Oh I am done with this guy. It is obvious that he has no clue what he is saying. It is almost too funny. Take care!

[Defcon]

Its funny there is even a debate about this. I'm no pro and never will be, but I know the difference between intense hitting sessions, the kind that tire you more than playing a few sets will.

Every single pro goes and 'practices' for hours a day on court, in addition to working on fitness, mental game etc. If all their stroke fundamentals were drilled into them as a kid, all they'd need to do was show up for the 5min warmup before each match.

Talk to any 5.0+ and most 4.5 players and they'll say the same. You'd have to be a special kind of idiot to think that drills don't matter, even with your warped definition of what a drill is.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Every single pro goes and 'practices' for hours a day on court, in addition to working on fitness, mental game etc. If all their stroke fundamentals were drilled into them as a kid, all they'd need to do was show up for the 5min warmup before each match.


Watch a old sampras video compared to later in his career. His game is really not all that different. His serve motion is amazingly consistent and nearly the same. I bet at 18yo his game was pretty much the same. All his fundamentals came from early coaching and drilling. That's where you get your strokes. You got to get them before you can practice them 6hrs a day to maintain them.

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

ONCE AGAIN, HE PRACTICED. Get it? PRACTICED????


Is that how you learned the game? Practicing, without being taught by a teaching pro? Just curious but i'm all in saying you where not. Is this why you are bitter?

[Bungalo Bill]

Is that how you learned the game? Practicing, without being taught by a teaching pro? Just curious but i'm all in saying you where not. Is this why you are bitter?

LOL, bitter? LOL!!!

Twisting, twisting, twisting. I can tell you are struggling with your "logic". You don't make sense anymore do you. :)

You provided nothing to support your little argument. In fact, you just sunk into a deeper hole.

Your logic was clearly flawed so now you have to resort to bringing this to a personal level? LOL

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

LOL, bitter? LOL!!!

Twisting, twisting, twisting. I can tell you are struggling with your "logic". You don't make sense anymore do you. :)

*YOU* are the master of twisting things. Credentials bill. If you were self taught chances are also high you never competed in junior tournaments etc. I know you're obviously proud of your uspta certification in your sig. I'm guessing practicing was enough to get you that *YAY*

You provided nothing to support your little argument. In fact, you just sunk into a deeper hole.

That was the plan of your *twisting*. How can you argue the most important thing is sound fundamentals? Technique footwork. I never said 'practicing' was not important. But developing sound technique via drills, hands on instruction, is the key to be able to make practicing worth while. You can practice till the cows come home but if you obvious problems with your technique it dont matter how much you practice.

Your logic was clearly flawed so now you have to resort to bringing this to a personal level? LOL

Not really, just curious if you had any training or junior tournament experience yourself. Obviously not.

[Defcon]

That's where you get your strokes. You got to get them before you can practice them 6hrs a day to maintain them.

Do you think as a kid you wake up one day and magically learn your strokes. If anything its even more practice and constant hitting lessons to develop the muscle memory. And if you don't keep practicing, the timing and strokes will go away. This happens to everyone on a daily basis, even the pros.

Not sure what your point is here :confused:

[Ultra2HolyGrail]

Do you think as a kid you wake up one day and magically learn your strokes. If anything its even more practice and constant hitting lessons to develop the muscle memory.

Well technically anytime you go to play tennis regardless you are practicing.

And if you don't keep practicing, the timing and strokes will go away.

Timing yes. But your strokes NEVER go away if you learned sound technique. Proof of that is any top level junior player could pick up the game without playing for years and it would not take them that long to be playing good tennis.

Not sure what your point is here :confused:

The whole point was simply to make sure your technique-footwork, does not have any obvious problems..

[Mansewerz]

I believe drills like King of the court are a great drill to use. It incorporates match play into a drill. I actually break a sweat doing that because I'm going for the win. However, rallying is needed in this drill because a competent partner will keep you working. How about using a modified version of this for say just back hands?

[Leoboomanu]

###The 30+ Rally VIDEO CLUB###
"We let the hittin' do the talkin'..."

Members:
1) Boojay: Dreams of a 100 plus rally...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NlVGcMOboU
2) *Drakulie: Too close and yet too far at 21!
You can do it!(as said by Rob Snieder in Adam Sandler Movies)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWT4fj2NT4
3) Tokyopunk: The funnier the better... Hat's off to you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhOKNbk4Bo


Enjoy guys!

I better do it the 'tokyo' way... (I'm talking to myself...)

*This page is also found in post#2 of this thread.

Sorry for the delay tokyo!:)

[Leoboomanu]

Hey Mr. Ultra guy...

Do your video already...:twisted:

[TokyopunK]

Sorry for the delay tokyo!:)

Oh My God,

I would just like to thank God, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, all of fans, my parents, and the TW community. Without them I would have never accomplished this goal.

I...............I................ :oops: this is so emotional.........

Thank you.............

[TonLars]

I havent read much of this thread, but to answer a question:

For the purposes of that video, the guy at the net was feeding us the first ball with a bucket so we wouldnt waste time picking balls up, and getting off the screen. After that first ball, it was a live rally cross-court.

My opinion on the feeding and live rallying discussion: Feeding drills have their place to focus especially on technique building, in a controlled way. Developing players need more of this because they cant sustain decent rallies and get sufficient practice in hitting balls with correct technique. Once a player builds some fundamentals, to become match tough, the player needs to do live rallying with different types of players and abilities. They also need to play alot of competitive games, so they are hitting shots on the run, using strategy, and getting feedback on every point and every shot in a competitive situation. Feeds from a bucket are obviously alot different than an actual rally. I often have students that are even anticipating the drill itself if it includes a short ball and shot on the run, and they will move to where the ball is going next before its even fed. All players, even advanced, can benefit from feeds/drills if they want to isolate a specific skill and work on that. But ultimately I have to say that for specificity reasons, rallying and playing out points is what a player should be practicing for the real thing.