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Hatari!
05-15-2008, 03:00 PM
I have heard people on this forum often say "this racquet feels like butter" as both a compliment and a complaint. Can anyone define a "buttery feel" and why it would be a good/bad thing.

samster
05-15-2008, 03:02 PM
Get your hands on this racket then you will understand for yourself.

Yonex RDX 500 Mid

samster
05-15-2008, 05:22 PM
RDX 500 Mid

http://i28.tinypic.com/1zgbvwy.jpg

BreakPoint
05-15-2008, 06:55 PM
Get your hands on this racket then you will understand for yourself.

Yonex RDX 500 Mid
I totally agree! :)

Another one with buttery feel is the Donnay Pro One Int'l.

Also, PC600, Max 200G, Volkl T10 MP Gen II, Tecnifibre TF-335, PS 6.0 85/95 etc.

bertrevert
05-15-2008, 07:23 PM
it's flex - as you can tell by the frames listed - and that corresponding dwell time, lack of shock/vibration, that connectedness that rewards the throughput of your swing... sorry v vague...

Ross K
05-15-2008, 09:44 PM
Very hard to put into words but (which is why I've had to think about it for 15 minutes!:roll:) here goes... to me it's about an altogether smooth feel joined with a special capacity for effortless top performance.

Also, the most buttery frame I ever personally wielded is definitely, without the slightest doubt, the PT 630. And having played with it recently after quite a lay off, I was again amazed by its pleasurable, totally easy-to-play-with, yet dynamic qualities. For me, it's the king of that smooth lush feel/performance that ppl associate with 'buttery'.

frankyue50
05-15-2008, 10:02 PM
I think LM prestige can also be described as buttery.

HappyAndFriendlyAlways
05-16-2008, 02:37 AM
"Buttery Feel" huh? Im looking for the whole loaded potato with butter sour cream and chives, and bacon bits

i think i found it in the pog..now the strings

Rabbit
05-16-2008, 03:48 AM
Think of the stiffest racket you've ever hit with. Then think of shanking a ball with the stiffest racket you've ever hit with. Think of how it made your arm feel.

Now....think of how you wished it would have felt. You've just defined buttery...

Return_Ace
05-16-2008, 04:24 AM
Definitely agree with the RDX500 Mid comment...

I'm personally in the "complaint" camp with this... I'm used to hitting with an LM Prestige Mid so I thought I'd be alright testing out the RDX.... I couldn't really find any feeling from the frame, the ball just seemed to slide straight off the strings =S.

nickb
05-16-2008, 04:24 AM
I totally agree! :)

Another one with buttery feel is the Donnay Pro One Int'l.

Also, PC600, Max 200G, Volkl T10 MP Gen II, Tecnifibre TF-335, PS 6.0 85/95 etc.

I wouldnt describe the TF335 or the 6.0 85 as buttery...they both feel stiff to me.

Some people like a buttery feel others hate it....to me the RDX500 Mid felt like a wet noodle that could snap in half at any moment...to others it feels amazing.

Nick

Bubba
05-16-2008, 05:26 AM
I wouldnt describe the TF335 or the 6.0 85 as buttery...they both feel stiff to me.

Some people like a buttery feel others hate it....to me the RDX500 Mid felt like a wet noodle that could snap in half at any moment...to others it feels amazing.

Nick

I concur... the RDX500 was just toooooooooo flexy

thejuice
05-16-2008, 05:41 AM
My examples of buttery frames would be:

PK Redondo
Dunlop MW 200G
Donnay Pro Cynetic 1 & 4
Donnay Pro One Intl
Yonex MP-1 and 2
Volkl DNX10 Mid

007
05-16-2008, 06:22 AM
Dunlop MW200G
Fischer Vacuum Pro + VT98 Pro + red/silver Pro1
Yonex SRD Tour
Donnay Pro One

VikingSamurai
05-16-2008, 06:30 AM
Babolat Pure Storm Tour...

JediMindTrick
05-16-2008, 07:16 AM
Buttery racquets that I played with:

RDX 500 MP
Fischer Pro One red-silver
Dunlop Aerogel 200

MrAWD
05-16-2008, 07:22 AM
I have heard people on this forum often say "this racquet feels like butter" as both a compliment and a complaint. Can anyone define a "buttery feel" and why it would be a good/bad thing.
Since everyone was heading to point out the examples and racquets that have buttery feel, I will try to really answer your original question!

The good stuff: Typically your impact with the ball is very soft and comfortable, yet produces decent pace on the ball. The fact is that most of the buttery racquets are around 12 OZ, which help you to add some heat to the balls. Due to the softness of the frame, the ball stays longer in the contact with it, which typically increase the control of such racquets. So, another fact is that most of the buttery frames have great control.

So, in all, you have a frame that is really great for your joints (wrist, elbow, and
shoulder), produces good pace on the balls and has excellent control.

The bad stuff: As you could see I never said that you could produce a very heavy ball and extreme pace with those frames. The thing is that once you start hitting harder and harder, extra flex that comes with such racquets starts to go against you. Sometimes players feel that there is not enough on the ball and they are trying harder and harder and that usually results in mistake and frustration which follows and consequently even more mistakes. At this time, it looks like that most of this is in the head of the player, but since that is pretty important for this game, I would use it as greatest issue with the buttery racquets. Of course, this kind of problem will typically start at higher playing level, so for most of us that shouldn't be an issue, but... The best example for this issue to appear is when serving hard with such frames. The flex doesn't allow for monster serves like some other frames do and those who relay heavily on those, will probable not enjoy those frames. The good part is that you can place the ball at will, which is another way to have a great serve!

Rest of it: Now, since those racquets are a bit heavy some people have problems with the 12 oz or so frames. Then, lack of power that is another attribute of those frames would also turn away lot of players. None of these issue has anything to do with the buttery feel and they shouldn't be confused as buttery racquet problems!

And the best racquet that I have played with that closely describes this feeling is Redondo Mid!

Fedja

GMN
05-16-2008, 10:22 AM
I got two of the RDX Mids if anyone wants to buy them. I believe they are 1/2 grip size. Great condition as I only used them for a few months a few years back.

email me at gunnarnelson@yahoo.com if interested.

OnlyMidsize
05-16-2008, 10:31 AM
The Most buttery racket you can find is the Fischer vacuum pro 90. Hands down. Try it out and it'll define buttery for you.

BreakPoint
05-16-2008, 10:53 AM
I concur... the RDX500 was just toooooooooo flexy
If you want TOO flexy, try the Volkl C-10 or the Tour 10 VE Mid.

BreakPoint
05-16-2008, 10:55 AM
I wouldnt describe the TF335 or the 6.0 85 as buttery...they both feel stiff to me.

Not to me. To me, they both feel smooth, flexy, and buttery by today's modern stiff racquet standards. :)

matchmaker
05-16-2008, 11:04 AM
Since everyone was heading to point out the examples and racquets that have buttery feel, I will try to really answer your original question!

The good stuff: Typically your impact with the ball is very soft and comfortable, yet produces decent pace on the ball. The fact is that most of the buttery racquets are around 12 OZ, which help you to add some heat to the balls. Due to the softness of the frame, the ball stays longer in the contact with it, which typically increase the control of such racquets. So, another fact is that most of the buttery frames have great control.

So, in all, you have a frame that is really great for your joints (wrist, elbow, and
shoulder), produces good pace on the balls and has excellent control.

The bad stuff: As you could see I never said that you could produce a very heavy ball and extreme pace with those frames. The thing is that once you start hitting harder and harder, extra flex that comes with such racquets starts to go against you. Sometimes players feel that there is not enough on the ball and they are trying harder and harder and that usually results in mistake and frustration which follows and consequently even more mistakes. At this time, it looks like that most of this is in the head of the player, but since that is pretty important for this game, I would use it as greatest issue with the buttery racquets. Of course, this kind of problem will typically start at higher playing level, so for most of us that shouldn't be an issue, but... The best example for this issue to appear is when serving hard with such frames. The flex doesn't allow for monster serves like some other frames do and those who relay heavily on those, will probable not enjoy those frames. The good part is that you can place the ball at will, which is another way to have a great serve!

Rest of it: Now, since those racquets are a bit heavy some people have problems with the 12 oz or so frames. Then, lack of power that is another attribute of those frames would also turn away lot of players. None of these issue has anything to do with the buttery feel and they shouldn't be confused as buttery racquet problems!

And the best racquet that I have played with that closely describes this feeling is Redondo Mid!

Fedja

I do not agree that buttery frames can not hit a heavy ball. This maybe true for the Redondo mid but I have other buttery frames that are very good at put aways, the best I have played with in this category is the Wilson Reflex, a mostly unknown frame. It hits monster serves and has an incredible plow through. I think much depends on swingweight. A buttery frame with a high swingweight will have a lot of plow through.

matchmaker
05-16-2008, 11:13 AM
If you want TOO flexy, try the Volkl C-10 or the Tour 10 VE Mid.

Everything is a matter of taste. I quite like the VE mid and I have heard people saying the C10 pro is much flexier...

BTW Breakpoint have you ever played with the C10? What would be your opinion about it?

BreakPoint
05-16-2008, 11:32 AM
BTW Breakpoint have you ever played with the C10? What would be your opinion about it?
Yes, I have and I found it to be way too flexy and unstable in the hoop. It felt wobbly when I hit the ball hard and almost as if the hoop was going to snap in half. Just not my cup of tea. I prefer racquets with a more solid feel to them.

MrAWD
05-16-2008, 12:19 PM
I do not agree that buttery frames can not hit a heavy ball. This maybe true for the Redondo mid but I have other buttery frames that are very good at put aways, the best I have played with in this category is the Wilson Reflex, a mostly unknown frame. It hits monster serves and has an incredible plow through. I think much depends on swingweight. A buttery frame with a high swingweight will have a lot of plow through.

Well, if it ends up taking your arm away due to the higher swing weight, then that is not butter from where I stand. Buttery is that feeling when you hit the ball hard and it feels like you are cutting through the butter with worm knife! If your knife is getting out of your hand... :)

I was trying to be generic as much as I could, so there must be lot of examples against it that just confirm my theory! :)

Fedja

PandaKuo777
05-16-2008, 12:31 PM
I hate the buttery feel. Stiff rackets all the way

MrAWD
05-16-2008, 12:44 PM
I hate the buttery feel. Stiff rackets all the way

Wait till the age starts to get up there...then you might be singing a different song!

Fedja

HeadPrestige
05-16-2008, 02:38 PM
Babolat Pure Storm Tour...

definitely would not consider the PST as buttery.

xr3fgb
05-16-2008, 02:51 PM
is it accurate to say that all 100% graphite racquets are buttery? curious what people think about that statement...

Rabbit
05-16-2008, 03:21 PM
No, not at all. Hit with a Tony Trabert C-6 Graphite and you'll see what I mean. Absolutely no butter in that bad boy.

matchmaker
05-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Well, if it ends up taking your arm away due to the higher swing weight, then that is not butter from where I stand. Buttery is that feeling when you hit the ball hard and it feels like you are cutting through the butter with worm knife! If your knife is getting out of your hand... :)

I was trying to be generic as much as I could, so there must be lot of examples against it that just confirm my theory! :)

Fedja

I just think that buttery and plow through do go together. At least those are two terms people mention in the same sentence when talking about the PC 600 or the Max 200g

Kirko
05-16-2008, 03:40 PM
two rackets from the past come to mind. the dunlop max 200G & the prince pro alu. oversize. before that the kramer auto. I used for yrs. (wood). currently I think the KBT.

nhatduongchi
05-16-2008, 07:38 PM
No one names the POG?? :)

matchmaker
05-17-2008, 08:24 AM
No one names the POG?? :)

I certainly wouldn't call the POG mid buttery. The POGOS is more flexible but not really buttery either. Maybe the former generations were more buttery, I have never played with the older ones, so I don't know.

markwillplay
05-17-2008, 10:33 AM
both of the Donnay's are buttery to me. Also, the head classic that my buddy plays with is quite buttery. I like that feeling.

sureshs
05-17-2008, 11:21 AM
RQiS1 tour
RDS 002 Tour

hrstrat57
05-17-2008, 03:40 PM
Dunlop Max 200g, strung with 16 ga gut, 55 lbs....just a little bit of lead tape, maybe 2 inches centered at 3/9.

All you need is a blueberry muffin warmed up and split in two......:mrgreen:

and some good technique