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okdude1992
05-28-2008, 04:30 PM
hi guys, i was wondering is it possible to make a racket swing lighter (or feel more headlight)? would just putting lead in the handle accomplish this? thanks

baek57
05-28-2008, 05:09 PM
you cannot add weight to reduce swingweight. the only way to accomplish it is to take weight off the racquet.

LanEvo
05-28-2008, 05:12 PM
trim the bumperguard of ur racquet if u want to remove sw thats the easiest way i know of

chrisplchs
05-28-2008, 05:34 PM
shorten your racquet

jck01
05-29-2008, 07:08 PM
trim the bumperguard of ur racquet if u want to remove sw thats the easiest way i know of

I normally wouldn't try to reduce the swingweight, but if I had to, I would do what LanEvo suggests.

Bubba
05-29-2008, 07:59 PM
you cannot add weight to reduce swingweight. the only way to accomplish it is to take weight off the racquet.

WRONG. You can reduce swing weight IF you add weight to the butt cap - below the rotational axis (wrist location)

I've just finished detailing this with several examples in another thread... hang on and I will post an edit with the URL to that thread.

Bubba
05-29-2008, 08:01 PM
Here you go... http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=200006

okdude1992
06-05-2008, 04:46 PM
thanks guys. anyways to revive an old thread...
what i meant was more headlight/spinny. I thought that was what swingweight was... If I was to put lead on the handle under the grip, where should I put it? should it go all around the handle, or be in strips?

baek57
06-05-2008, 05:10 PM
WRONG. You can reduce swing weight IF you add weight to the butt cap - below the rotational axis (wrist location)

I've just finished detailing this with several examples in another thread... hang on and I will post an edit with the URL to that thread.

i laugh at you.

2nd_Serve
06-05-2008, 05:44 PM
WRONG. You can reduce swing weight IF you add weight to the butt cap - below the rotational axis (wrist location)

I've just finished detailing this with several examples in another thread... hang on and I will post an edit with the URL to that thread.

I have to also laugh at you. There's no way to decrease swingWEIGHT if you are adding WEIGHT.

i like stuff and things
06-06-2008, 03:24 AM
But theres more weight in the handle so as the weight goes up in the handle it makes it more headlight so it will have a lower swing weight. Like if you get 2 racquets 1 with a weight of say 320g but its only 2pt headlight and 1 with say 345g but its 12pts head light the HEAVIER one will be easier to swing...

Yin
06-06-2008, 04:18 AM
You should see the swingweight more as maneuverability.
the faster you can swing it left and right with your wrist the lower the swingweight.

jmverdugo
06-06-2008, 05:42 AM
It is not possible to reduce swingweight unless you take out material from the head of the racket.

If you add weight in the butt cap there is not a significant distance between the wrist and the but cap to make that weight a counterweight and reduce the swingweight.

Bottle Rocket
06-06-2008, 05:53 AM
Here you go... http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=200006

Yeah... Please check out that thread (although, I think I am recommending it for a different reason than Bubba).

This has been asked, answered, explained, argued, and re-defined nearly 4,000 times. That link is a GREAT start and interestingly, that link provides even more great discussions A lot of people have spent a lot of time answering this question, do them a favor, and do some of your own research.

As far as I am concerned, there isn't much more that needs to be said. I and others have presented our case and Bubba has presented his... Its a good deal of information, enough to make an informed decision about what one might want to try.

larry10s
06-06-2008, 06:00 AM
you CANNOT decrease swingweight by adding weight in the handle . you can make a racquet more headlight so it feels more maneuverable . only by decreasing weight can you lower swingweight. like taking the bumper guard off.however by adding weight to the handle or butt capp the amount of increase in swingweight is small compared to the perception of maneuverability due to the increase in headlight balance point. oppositely a small addition at 12 oclock onthe hoop will give a nmuch greater increase in swingweit.

Ross K
06-06-2008, 06:52 AM
Q prompted by this thread...

Is it possible to make the PSC 6.1 (Eu 18x20 version - W: 12.06 g, SW:326, BAL: 11 pts h/light, S: 72) swing any easier, quicker, and less cumbersome? Is there anything that can be done?

(Apologies if posters above have answered this, only this thread has offered conflicting views, or I'm just not getting it. Anyway... )

ChipNCharge
06-06-2008, 08:23 AM
Q prompted by this thread...

Is it possible to make the PSC 6.1 (Eu 18x20 version - W: 12.06 g, SW:326, BAL: 11 pts h/light, S: 72) swing any easier, quicker, and less cumbersome? Is there anything that can be done?

(Apologies if posters above have answered this, only this thread has offered conflicting views, or I'm just not getting it. Anyway... )

Trim the bumper guard, use thinner (and thus lighter) strings, don't use poly (it's heavier), replace the grip with a Babolat VS X-Cell grip or Gamma Pro Lite grip (they're even lighter than other synthetic grips).

nickb
06-06-2008, 08:31 AM
WRONG. You can reduce swing weight IF you add weight to the butt cap - below the rotational axis (wrist location)

I've just finished detailing this with several examples in another thread... hang on and I will post an edit with the URL to that thread.

Sorry mate but your wrong...and its pretty funny :)

Gemini
06-06-2008, 08:40 AM
The only way to reduce swingweight is to remove mass (material) from the racquet above the balance point. If your racquet has a bumper guard, removing it will reduce the swingweight. Unfortunately, you lose your grommets when you take away the bumper guard. Other than that, I can't see any other ways to bring SW down.

Bottle Rocket
06-06-2008, 08:45 AM
Other than that, I can't see any other ways to bring SW down.

You can also decrease the length of the frame by shortening the handle - yet something else that has been covered in all of the other swingweight threads.

MrAWD
06-06-2008, 08:48 AM
WRONG. You can reduce swing weight IF you add weight to the butt cap - below the rotational axis (wrist location)
Well, if you assume that racket is swinging just around the middle of the handle (typically 4 cm off of the bottom end) then you would be right. Adding weight the the other side of the rotation center would decrease the swing weight you are talking about.

But, this is wrong assumption. You do swing your racquet around that point in the handle , but the major center of the rotation is in your shoulder. From that point any weight on the racquet is at the distance from that rotation point and that will ALWAYS increase your swing weight!

Sorry Bubba!


Fedja

uabucks
06-06-2008, 09:23 AM
All I know is that when I pick up a headlight racket, it feels lighter,
and swings lighter, especially throughout a match.
With respect to a racket 11.5-12 oz, no one can convince me
the higher swingweight racket (but more headlight) is not
"lighter in feel" or more manueverable.
I am not sure swingweight is a measure of ease of swing or
manueverability--and if it is not, it is a pretty worthless measure.

I play with a dnx 10 mp, with a couple overgrips, and to me it
is lighter and easier to swing than racket an ounce less with
much lower supposed swingweights.
I get much more tired trying to hold up light head-heavy sticks.

MrAWD
06-06-2008, 09:37 AM
OK, here is a short explanation what the swing weight is since some of you seem to be confused. First of all what is weight?

By the laws of physics the weight is it is the mass of the object multiplied by the gravitational force.

Now the swing weight is the weight that you get from the racquet while it is swinging. So it is again mass of the racquet multiplied by the force applied to the racquet - in this case centrifugal force and gravitational force. Since gravitational force is much smaller compared to the centrifugal one, it is ignored here. So, your centrifugal force is proportional with the rotational speed (squared, I believe) and the radius of the swing it self. The correct distance is a bit more difficult to calculate but for the simplicity we will use the center of the mass (racquet and your hand) that is swinging.

Basically, the longer the racquet, higher the force is, which means the swing weight is higher. The higher the speed of the swing is the higher the weight is as well. My guess is that for the measurement purpose they have to use a constant speed for each of the testing, otherwise results would be incomparable.

Mostly simplified, the swing weight is the measure of how much the racquet wants to come off of your hand (pulling your hand out) when you swinging it!

Hope this helps.

Fedja

SFrazeur
06-06-2008, 09:46 AM
OK, here is a short explanation what the swing weight is since some of you seem to be confused. First of all what is weight?

By the laws of physics the weight is it is the mass of the object multiplied by the gravitational force.

Now the swing weight is the weight that you get from the racquet while it is swinging. So it is again mass of the racquet multiplied by the force applied to the racquet - in this case centrifugal force and gravitational force. Since gravitational force is much smaller compared to the centrifugal one, it is ignored here. So, your centrifugal force is proportional with the rotational speed (squared, I believe) and the radius of the swing it self. The correct distance is a bit more difficult to calculate but for the simplicity we will use the center of the mass (racquet and your hand) that is swinging.

Basically, the longer the racquet, higher the force is, which means the swing weight is higher. The higher the speed of the swing is the higher the weight is as well. My guess is that for the measurement purpose they have to use a constant speed for each of the testing, otherwise results would be incomparable.

Mostly simplified, the swing weight is the measure of how much the racquet wants to come off of your hand (pulling your hand out) when you swinging it!

Hope this helps.

Fedja

Translation: To obtain a lower swingweight go to the moon. :)

-SF

Gemini
06-06-2008, 09:56 AM
All I know is that when I pick up a headlight racket, it feels lighter,
and swings lighter, especially throughout a match.
With respect to a racket 11.5-12 oz, no one can convince me
the higher swingweight racket (but more headlight) is not
"lighter in feel" or more manueverable.
I am not sure swingweight is a measure of ease of swing or
manueverability--and if it is not, it is a pretty worthless measure.

I play with a dnx 10 mp, with a couple overgrips, and to me it
is lighter and easier to swing than racket an ounce less with
much lower supposed swingweights.
I get much more tired trying to hold up light head-heavy sticks.

You're right. It is lighter in feel...up to a certain point. That point differs from person to person just as the "maneuverablity/lightness/heaviness" of a head-heavy racquet will vary as well. Just depends on each individuals comfort level when it comes to the given swingweight of a racquet.

Your racquet's balance point is closer to the handle of the racquet rather than the head. By adding overgrips, you've shifted the balance point even farther south and even closer to the handle. You've increased the swingweight because you've added more material BUT this new swingweight is still within your comfort zone.

I tend to think of swingweight in terms of how well (fast) I can get my racquet to pivot along a given point/axis. As long as the swingweight doesn't get so high that it reduces the rate at which I can make my racquet pivot along that axis then the racquets generally going to feel "light" to me.

Head-heavy racquets are essentially equivalent to hammers (the tool) while head-light racquets are closer to flyswatters in my mind.

MrAWD
06-06-2008, 10:42 AM
Translation: To obtain a lower swingweight go to the moon. :)
Hmm, I know you where joking, but swing weight will be the same on the moon as well, since it has pretty much nothing to do with the gravitational force!

Fedja

Bottle Rocket
06-06-2008, 11:21 AM
Now the swing weight is the weight that you get from the racquet while it is swinging. So it is again mass of the racquet multiplied by the force applied to the racquet - in this case centrifugal force and gravitational force.

Mostly simplified, the swing weight is the measure of how much the racquet wants to come off of your hand (pulling your hand out) when you swinging it!


This is absolutely NOT what racket swingweight is. Not even close.

Please check out my posts in this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=197064&highlight=

If you don't believe me, a quick google search, some research on TW, and many books about the physics of tennis rackets spell things out pretty clearly. Dynamics books, Mechanics of Materials books, and many engineering and physics books also explain very clearly this idea.

It is all about the meaning of the term swingweight. This is the cause of confusion as well as the cause of all of this darn swingweight threads. Many people are interpreting it their own way, such as yourself. It has a very well defined meaning though, just as "weight" does.

It is not just perception, it is not nearly as simple as mass times a force, and it is not dependent on where you hold the racket. It is a value that can be measured or calculated in a very specific way. The point of reference for taking swingweight has been defined, the units have been defined, and the effects certain things have on swingweight are very well understood.

This is not a topic that depends on opinions and subjective thoughts. Swingweight has a value and it has units. The effects of weight and length are known. There is nothing to debate. To those who think there is, take a very simple object, such as a long rod. Look up the equations for the mass moment of inertia for the shape and do some sample calculations. See how mass effects the numbers.

The bottom line is that the swingweight in very basic terms describes how maneuverable a tennis racket is during the type of movement that a tennis racket undergoes during play. The higher the swingweight, the harder it can feel to swing. The lower the swingweight, the easier it can feel to swing.

If adding lead to the handle of your racket makes you feel that the frame is more maneuverable, who cares if the swingweight has increased or decreased? Your own perception is all that matters. Modify your frames to play as you'd like, not to meet certain (sometimes meaningless) specifications.

SFrazeur
06-06-2008, 01:14 PM
Hmm, I know you where joking, but swing weight will be the same on the moon as well, since it has pretty much nothing to do with the gravitational force!

Fedja

It was a bit of a satirical joke on people who do crazy things to modify racquets, in particular reduce swing weight. The only thing left some haven't tried is going to the moon. With the Moon having, what, 17% of the gravity of earth would make Tennis as we know it different to the point where this issue of swing weight would be moot. I found it funny in a I know this place and their thought processes too well kind of way.

-SF

uabucks
06-06-2008, 01:30 PM
This is absolutely NOT what racket swingweight is. Not even close.

Please check out my posts in this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=197064&highlight=

If you don't believe me, a quick google search, some research on TW, and many books about the physics of tennis rackets spell things out pretty clearly. Dynamics books, Mechanics of Materials books, and many engineering and physics books also explain very clearly this idea.

It is all about the meaning of the term swingweight. This is the cause of confusion as well as the cause of all of this darn swingweight threads. Many people are interpreting it their own way, such as yourself. It has a very well defined meaning though, just as "weight" does.

It is not just perception, it is not nearly as simple as mass times a force, and it is not dependent on where you hold the racket. It is a value that can be measured or calculated in a very specific way. The point of reference for taking swingweight has been defined, the units have been defined, and the effects certain things have on swingweight are very well understood.

This is not a topic that depends on opinions and subjective thoughts. Swingweight has a value and it has units. The effects of weight and length are known. There is nothing to debate. To those who think there is, take a very simple object, such as a long rod. Look up the equations for the mass moment of inertia for the shape and do some sample calculations. See how mass effects the numbers.

The bottom line is that the swingweight in very basic terms describes how maneuverable a tennis racket is during the type of movement that a tennis racket undergoes during play. The higher the swingweight, the harder it can feel to swing. The lower the swingweight, the easier it can feel to swing.

If adding lead to the handle of your racket makes you feel that the frame is more maneuverable, who cares if the swingweight has increased or decreased? Your own perception is all that matters. Modify your frames to play as you'd like, not to meet certain (sometimes meaningless) specifications.
I understand what you are saying--but it is not perception that a headlight racket is easier to swing and is more manueverable is it?
Isn't it a reality?
To me swingweight is more like a static weight computation, basically meaningless until you get into 12+oz rackets or 11+ oz rackets that are more even in balance.

TennisDawg
06-06-2008, 01:43 PM
Adding weight to the butt end of the racquet will change the balance of the racquet to more headlight. Swingweight is calulated at a axis of rotation of 7CM from the butt end of the racquet towards the tip of the racquet head. Adding weight to the butt end won't change the SW calculation because it on the other side of the axis of rotation and that makes sense because you aren't hitting tennis balls with the butt end of the racquet.