Jo11y, where are you?

[Rickson]

I just got my ass kicked by some power hitter who used to be a table tennis champ. It was 6-1, 6-2, 6-1. I haven't taken a beating like this in 4 years. I knew my last 2 years of less than one match a month would do me in. I need to practice with the power hitter, Jo11y. I'll trade you gym training tips for serve advice. Argh! This was frustrating! Any tips on beating a mostly forehand winner kind of guy would be appreciated.

[1012007]

This was frustrating! Any tips on beating a mostly forehand winner kind of guy would be appreciated.

:) You answered your own question. Hit it too their BH!:)

[Rickson]

:) You answered your own question. Hit it too their BH!:)

I ran into a problem there. This guy has some wheels on him and anything that's not a winner to the backhand, he could run around it. Not only that, he made zero errors from his slice backhands so the errors only came from his forehand, but he had more winners than errors which was of course, bad news for me. This guy was quick with power forehands. My best chance was to hit the ball hard to his forehand and that didn't work today.

[Moz]

Sounds like you ran into someone who was better than you. I would try varying the depth on the shots to his backhand.

If you're fitter than him keeping making him hit the slice and out-stubborn him.

[Rickson]

Sounds like you ran into someone who was better than you. I would try varying the depth on the shots to his backhand.

If you're fitter than him keeping making him hit the slice and out-stubborn him.

I never said he wasn't better. He told me before the match that I was getting bageled so I avoided it at all cost, but during his last set, he came close until I forced some fh errors on him during my serve. He just got angry after that and started pummeling the ball and that was all she wrote. I know that with enough practice, I could give this big mouth a better match, but 8 tennis days a year just isn't enough. I have a month before our next bout and I'm looking for a minimum of 3 games per set. Remember, this guy is a table tennis champ and while it's a different sport, his reflexes and wrist action carried over into tennis.

[Bungalo Bill]

I never said he wasn't better. He told me before the match that I was getting bageled so I avoided it at all cost, but during his last set, he came close until I forced some fh errors on him during my serve. He just got angry after that and started pummeling the ball and that was all she wrote. I know that with enough practice, I could give this big mouth a better match, but 8 tennis days a year just isn't enough. I have a month before our next bout and I'm looking for a minimum of 3 games per set. Remember, this guy is a table tennis champ and while it's a different sport, his reflexes and wrist action carried over into tennis.

Face it Rickson to him your serve:

1. Wasn't placed well enough

2. Wasn't fast enough

3. Wasn't spinning enough (not enough action on the ball)

4. Was too predictable

With that little arm you hit that onehander with, I can probably see why. If you had a twohanded backhand you might have won. :)

[Ross K]

Remember, this guy is a table tennis champ and while it's a different sport, his reflexes and wrist action carried over into tennis.

Errrrr... 'wrist action?'.... (Alarm bells ring.) What exactly are we talking about here? What was he doing then?

[Rickson]

Face it Rickson to him your serve:

1. Wasn't placed well enough

2. Wasn't fast enough

3. Wasn't spinning enough (not enough action on the ball)

4. Was too predictable

With that little arm you hit that onehander with, I can probably see why. If you had a twohanded backhand you might have won. :)

Come on, Bill, you can't kick a man when he's down. I'm not switching to a 2 hander and you know that already. Now how can I improve my outing for next month?

[raiden031]

Don't worry. It happens to everyone. Two weeks ago I played a practice set against a guy on my 3.0 team (we are undefeated and I am one of the top guys), and he won it 6-1. I struggled to win points against him and his forehand never broke down and he put away any weak shot I hit, and I couldn't return his serve more than maybe 25% of the time. Definitely the best player I've faced (including a couple 4.0s) since I started playing regularly. I had nothing on this guy, and I am called a ringer almost every time I step on the court in this league. To make matters worse, I think he's been playing for maybe a year at most.

[Rickson]

Don't worry. It happens to everyone.

I knew he'd win before we played because he just came off a win against someone who played for his college team, but when he said he'd bagel me, I had to prevent that and luckily, I did. I know I can catch this guy, but I need to get in more first serves and somehow break down his forehand.

[samster]

Jo11y is not here right now.

[Bungalo Bill]

Come on, Bill, you can't kick a man when he's down. I'm not switching to a 2 hander and you know that already. Now how can I improve my outing for next month?

Honestly assess your serve. Granted he was fast. However, the speed and placement of a good serve can offset someone with speed.

Maybe just maybe, could it have been that you went in a little over confident with your serve? I mean maybe the regulars you play with think your serve is tough, but with this guy it was average at best?

What was wrong with your serve? How did he exploit it to turn his return into an offensive weapon?

EDIT:

I just read above. FIRST SERVES ARE KEY!!!!!!!!!! If you are giving him too many looks on your second serve it better be a damn good one! Which means you are only as good as your second serve. This is nearly the same as saying "you are only as strong as your weakest link!"

Serving is everything. Once you saw his forehand as the weaker part of his return, you should have gone to it a lot and make him beat you with it.

However, the serve sets up other areas of your game. After the serve, the second most important shot is what you do with his reply. How did you do there? Did you take command? Did you move the ball around well?

[Rickson]

No doubt about it, Bill. This guy was teeing off on my second serves like they were Dementieva's serves on Federer. I got to the point where I was thinking about hitting 2 flat serves, but I didn't risk it.

[samster]

Jo11y, where are you?

[Rickson]

BB catches things without even being there. The serves were way off today. I need to get those first serves in and definitely work on 2nd serves.

[Mansewerz]

Face it Rickson to him your serve:

1. Wasn't placed well enough

2. Wasn't fast enough

3. Wasn't spinning enough (not enough action on the ball)

4. Was too predictable

With that little arm you hit that onehander with, I can probably see why. If you had a twohanded backhand you might have won. :)

LOL at the last part.

Don't worry. It happens to everyone. Two weeks ago I played a practice set against a guy on my 3.0 team (we are undefeated and I am one of the top guys), and he won it 6-1. I struggled to win points against him and his forehand never broke down and he put away any weak shot I hit, and I couldn't return his serve more than maybe 25% of the time. Definitely the best player I've faced (including a couple 4.0s) since I started playing regularly. I had nothing on this guy, and I am called a ringer almost every time I step on the court in this league. To make matters worse, I think he's been playing for maybe a year at most.

Yes, in doubles, my partner and I lost to the exhibition guys once. Granted, we're 3rd doubles, but still, I played horribly that day. Though I can beat those guys.

[[d]ragon]

try to through off his forehand rhythem (slice, lobs, junk)?

[Bungalo Bill]

No doubt about it, Bill. This guy was teeing off on my second serves like they were Dementieva's serves on Federer. I got to the point where I was thinking about hitting 2 flat serves, but I didn't risk it.

Believe me I know the feeling.

One of the things I pride myself in is my serve. A big lefty serve that can slice, twist, skid, bounce high, and I had the ability on the duece court to literally send the ball half way into the alley and have it curve back in quickly as it was going down.

I cant tell you how many people called that ball out before it bounced or simply was getting ready to walk to the ad court thinking it was going out. It wasn't like it had this long curve, no, it went straight and looked like it was going to keep going straight and then all of a sudden it would whip back into the court at the last moment. Weird serve.

However, I remember playing someone who had a very good return. I thought I could just blow him away, get some easy points and that was that. I wasn't so much concerned about winning the match (although important) then holding serve.

I didn't hold serve.

My first serve was gone. I had no clue where it went and I was faced showing him too many looks of my second serve. At first, he was trying to figure it out, while I was trying to figure out what the heck happened to my first serve.

By that time, he was already way ahead in the match, I was tired from serving too many times (like a pitcher making too many pitches trying to find the strike zone) and he had his rythym on the second serve like nobody's business.

I got frustrated, depressed, and angry. I was lost. It felt like before I even hit the ball, his return was already past me. Very defeating.

I then heard those annoying words afterwards, "you are only as good as your second serve." I vowed to practice my serve (both 1st and 2nd) to make them better.

I wanted to master the angle serves and the into the body serves. I wanted to learn how to mix things up and really make my first serve as good as I could make it.

It took work but I definetly improved.

Here is the deal with serving and facing a player like that. You have to master both the outside and up the T serve. You have to be able to put the ball when going for the body right into his hip. You have to get out of practicing your serve "sometimes" and start practicing it full time.

You need to master the return of serve because if your serve isn't doing damage, you best be able to control the other side of it.

You need to improve your flexibility, mechanics and improve your ability to maintain a consistent toss - forever.

[J011yroger]

Right here buddy. Cue the Rocky music and lets go get this table tennis playing punk.

I am meeting up with a couple of coaches Saturday, but I am free on Sunday.

J

[tennisplayer1981]

Just curious, where were you playing?

[Rickson]

Just curious, where were you playing?

We played in New Hyde Park.

[Rickson]

Right here buddy. Cue the Rocky music and lets go get this table tennis playing punk.

I am meeting up with a couple of coaches Saturday, but I am free on Sunday.

J

If you show me that kick serve, I'm sure that'll make a big difference when I meet up with the table tennis punk.

Rocky theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Qi_KR8eCc)

[Mansewerz]

I wanna learn the kick serve too..........:(

[Rickson]

I wanna learn the kick serve too..........:(

Come meet us in Long Island.

[Hot Sauce]

I knew he'd win before we played because he just came off a win against someone who played for his college team, but when he said he'd bagel me, I had to prevent that and luckily, I did. I know I can catch this guy, but I need to get in more first serves and somehow break down his forehand.

You can't go into a matching thinking that you're going to lose.

[Rickson]

You can't go into a matching thinking that you're going to lose.

I was outgunned and I knew it. I had the mindset that I'd fight and I avoided the bagel even though he tried his best for the shutout. He talked crap before, during, and after, but I know that with enough practice, this cocky guy can go down to me. I play 8-10 times a year, not a month, but a year. I'm out of practice and I'm not in fighter shape, but give me some time and I can beat him. This I will guarantee.

[rommil]

What if he gets better? Feeling that you really got beat the last time, just hope you don't hit "emotional shots" next time you play.

[heycal]

He talked crap before, during, and after, but I know that with enough practice, this cocky guy can go down to me. I play 8-10 times a year, not a month, but a year. I'm out of practice and I'm not in fighter shape, but give me some time and I can beat him. This I will guarantee.

I don't know. Given the apparent disparity in skill level, I'd say he's more to likely to go down on you than go down to you.

[rommil]

^I think the next match should be sponsored by Head and Le Coq.

[Rickson]

^I think the next match should be sponsored by Head and Le Coq.

This is not gay tennis.

[heycal]

^I think the next match should be sponsored by Head and Le Coq.

Good one. It took me two reads to get it.:)

[smoothtennis]

Ok, the kid is super fast, and loves to run around his forehand right? Serving problems aside, what about aiming a good number of your shots either right at his left leg, or about a foot to his right? 1. He can't use his speed to run to the ball, and you leave him just enough room to run around it. It reduces his ability to use speed as a weapon. Maybe having him run away from the ball, will cause him to not set up as well to crack the monster forehand. Just a thought. 2. If you hit right at him, he has more time to run around - if you about a foot away, he still has time to run around it, but not as much time to set up well. There is some point in between his forehand run-around, and his backhand slice, where you might try to target. Then you can use the roller forehand to open up the backhand side for a real backhand attacking shot. Just my thoughts...

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

Rickson, is there a specific reason why you are only hitting a couple times a year??

Not judging or anything :D, just wondering, because you mentioned it a couple times, and you are one of the more respected posters here...

[Rickson]

Rickson, is there a specific reason why you are only hitting a couple times a year??

Not judging or anything :D, just wondering, because you mentioned it a couple times, and you are one of the more respected posters here...

I was working close to 70 hours a week and while my work schedule has lightened, my hitting partners have not increased so I guess it's off to the handball wall for me.

[Mansewerz]

Come meet us in Long Island.

I would if I wasn't 15, had no car, no license, and was allowed to take trips to NY to meet strangers to work on tennis. But hey, it could happen.

I was outgunned and I knew it. I had the mindset that I'd fight and I avoided the bagel even though he tried his best for the shutout. He talked crap before, during, and after, but I know that with enough practice, this cocky guy can go down to me. I play 8-10 times a year, not a month, but a year. I'm out of practice and I'm not in fighter shape, but give me some time and I can beat him. This I will guarantee.

Jo11y= Apollo Creed
Rickson= Rocky Balboa
Your opponent that's cocky=Mr T.! (forgot his name)

[Djokovicfan4life]

Hit the ball deeper in the court and he'll have a lot more trouble running around.

[Rickson]

Hit the ball deeper in the court and he'll have a lot more trouble running around.

I tried, but I had trouble controlling his freakin fast and heavy groundstrokes. Even when I retrieved, I gave him weak replies which never left me in control of the points. Any games I won were done on his errors and not from winners. This guy had a lot of fh winners which is unusual for me because I usually retrieve a lot of shots, but like I said before, I'm out of practice. I can't say I'll beat him next month, but I'll be much better prepared which means more games won for me. Yes, djokofan4L, I will hit the ball deeper next time and I'll also stand farther back because I was too close to the baseline.

[Mansewerz]

How come you play 5 setters?

[Rickson]

How come you play 5 setters?

You think that's something? I beat somebody 4 straight sets and he wanted to play another, but I told him that was enough.

[quicken]

Chip n volley
you might have to duck and cover.

[Mansewerz]

You think that's something? I beat somebody 4 straight sets and he wanted to play another, but I told him that was enough.

Lol, best 5 of 11 hahaha.

[J011yroger]

I would if I wasn't 15, had no car, no license, and was allowed to take trips to NY to meet strangers to work on tennis. But hey, it could happen.



Jo11y= Apollo Creed
Rickson= Rocky Balboa
Your opponent that's cocky=Mr T.! (forgot his name)

Clubber Lang.

And before you ask, Rickson, no, you can't borrow my American Flag trunks to play in.

J

[J011yroger]

You think that's something? I beat somebody 4 straight sets and he wanted to play another, but I told him that was enough.

Smart move on your part, quitting before he got warmed up!

J

[Mansewerz]

Smart move on your part, quitting before he got warmed up!

J
That Rickson sure is a trickster. Have you guys played each other yet?

[J011yroger]

That Rickson sure is a trickster. Have you guys played each other yet?

Nah, we aren't gonna play, Rickson wants me to teach him the 2nd serve of doom, and a few other things, and in return he is going to help me pick up arrogant looking jewish girls.

Went out and hit 2 buckets of practice serves all 2nd serve topspin or kickers, out of 150 serves, I hit 2 in the net, and the best was 115mph, ON the T.

Gosh this game sure is easy when there isn't somebody on the other side of the net trying to beat you.

Start keeping score, and I don my bright red cape and transform into my alter ego "Captain Double Fault!"

J

[Mansewerz]

Nah, we aren't gonna play, Rickson wants me to teach him the 2nd serve of doom, and a few other things, and in return he is going to help me pick up arrogant looking jewish girls.

Went out and hit 2 buckets of practice serves all 2nd serve topspin or kickers, out of 150 serves, I hit 2 in the net, and the best was 115mph, ON the T.

Gosh this game sure is easy when there isn't somebody on the other side of the net trying to beat you.

Start keeping score, and I don my bright red cape and transform into my alter ego "Captain Double Fault!"

J

Strange though. I hate being streaky , like I've heard you say many times.

Against my bro, who's much better than me, I did well with first serves except for placements. Most were in the middle of the box. Today, with a coach/instructor watching my serve at camp, I couldn't hit a serve to save my life.

Plus, one of my goals is to learn a kick serve. But first, work on my backhand! 2 handers unite!

[tennisplayer1981]

Jolly, you need help picking up arrogant Jewish girls? You should stop by my place then cause there's two that live right next to me. They're young, arrogant, and MILFS.

[Rickson]

We'll do it when you're ready, Jo11y. I'm gonna work on my cardio and footspeed for now as I've ballooned up to 2 bills lately. I was good at 180, but 2 bills is definitely working against me these days.

[J011yroger]

Jolly, you need help picking up arrogant Jewish girls? You should stop by my place then cause there's two that live right next to me. They're young, arrogant, and MILFS.

Dude, I am irresistable to girls under 18 or over 30.

Nobody in my age group wants anything to do with me :)

Which is good, lets me focus on my game.

J

[J011yroger]

Strange though. I hate being streaky , like I've heard you say many times.

Against my bro, who's much better than me, I did well with first serves except for placements. Most were in the middle of the box. Today, with a coach/instructor watching my serve at camp, I couldn't hit a serve to save my life.

Plus, one of my goals is to learn a kick serve. But first, work on my backhand! 2 handers unite!

Ya, I am in a pretty bad rut right now, but I think I am starting to come out of it.

I have always been a hitter more than a player, and am kicking and fighting with everything I have to shed that practice court hero cape.

J

[Rickson]

Jo11y, you in Nassau or Suffolk?

[J011yroger]

We'll do it when you're ready, Jo11y. I'm gonna work on my cardio and footspeed for now as I've ballooned up to 2 bills lately. I was good at 180, but 2 bills is definitely working against me these days.

Hmmm, I might be headed up to Westchester Sunday, so maybe I could catch you on the way back home?

Or we could do on any weekend I dont have a tourney.

Queens is a bit far for a day after work, but I could do it.

J

[J011yroger]

Jo11y, you in Nassau or Suffolk?

I am in Western Suffolk, North Shore, so anywhere that is off the NSP/GCP is a really straight easy shot for me.

J

[Rickson]

Hmmm, I might be headed up to Westchester Sunday, so maybe I could catch you on the way back home?

Or we could do on any weekend I dont have a tourney.

Queens is a bit far for a day after work, but I could do it.

J

New Hyde Park, brother. I might not have a car, but I think the cheating Raul can get me a ride next to his house.

[Rickson]

I am in Western Suffolk, North Shore, so anywhere that is off the NSP/GCP is a really straight easy shot for me.

J

Whoa! That's a trek, brother. If you didn't have such a clean diet, I'd treat you to lunch, but I can't think of a place where they serve brown rice and broccoli.

[J011yroger]

Whoa! That's a trek, brother. If you didn't have such a clean diet, I'd treat you to lunch, but I can't think of a place where they serve brown rice and broccoli.

Bah, I train enough that the odd slice of pizza, or ice cream, or miller lite isn't gonna do me in.

Just can't make a habit of it.

J

[J011yroger]

New Hyde Park, brother. I might not have a car, but I think the cheating Raul can get me a ride next to his house.

New Hyde Park is no trouble for me at all.

Maybe Saturday Morning or evening.

I have something set up for 10:30 and 4pm.

J

[Rickson]

Bah, I train enough that the odd slice of pizza, or ice cream, or miller lite isn't gonna do me in.

Just can't make a habit of it.

J

No problem then. Lunch on me for that trek alone. Just give me a shout out when you're ready, you have my email.

[J011yroger]

Or in between, like 1pm.

J

[obnoxious2]

jolly post up a vid of your 2nd serve please.

[J011yroger]

jolly post up a vid of your 2nd serve please.

I will, and of everything else I have, so that all here can rate me 3.5 :)

Just waiting on my new camera.

I am dying to get it.

J

[Djokovicfan4life]

I will, and of everything else I have, so that all here can rate me 3.5 :)

Just waiting on my new camera.

I am dying to get it.

J

Remember that Kohlschreiber is a 3.0, I think you may be overrating just a bit. :wink:

[my_forehand]

Remember that Kohlschreiber is a 3.0, I think you may be overrating just a bit. :wink:

Last time I heard, Kohl was a 2.5 :-?

[Mansewerz]

Where'd you get the camera from Jo11y?

[J011yroger]

Where'd you get the camera from Jo11y?

It was just released last month, and I am waiting for it to come into local stores so I can check it out in hand.

I REALLY hate to buy the first run of anything, especially something new since they are so prone to glitches and hiccoughs.

J

[J011yroger]

Last time I heard, Kohl was a 2.5 :-?

Remember that Kohlschreiber is a 3.0, I think you may be overrating just a bit. :wink:

Well I AM undefeated in the 2.5 pool on round robin night.

But you know, those are Eastern 2.5s not Socal 2.5s that come out of the womb serving 135mph.

J

[Djokovicfan4life]

Haha, Californians think they're so superior.

[Mansewerz]

Well I AM undefeated in the 2.5 pool on round robin night.

But you know, those are Eastern 2.5s not Socal 2.5s that come out of the womb serving 135mph.

J

135 MPH? That's it!??

[J011yroger]

Haha, Californians think they're so superior.

Haha, well, if you go by numbers and depth they are. There sure are a boatload of good players over on the west side!

J

[J011yroger]

Hey Rickson, could you do this saturday?

1pm ish?

J

[obnoxious2]

Haha, well, if you go by numbers and depth they are. There sure are a boatload of good players over on the west side!

J

Not to mention Cali is like 50% asian. And the majority of the tennis players are asian. Makes you wonder why there are no good american asians on the tour.

[meowmix]

Just curious, how was his net game? It sounds like his groundstrokes are solid, and that his major kind was unforced errors on the forehand side. Would forcing him to the net have worked?

[Rickson]

Hey Rickson, could you do this saturday?

1pm ish?

J

Let me get back to you on that. My boy, Raul, lives in NHP, but he's extremely unreliable so my chances of getting a ride to there are slim.

[my_forehand]

Let me get back to you on that. My boy, Raul, lives in NHP, but he's extremely unreliable so my chances of getting a ride to there are slim.

Translation: My bitc*, Raul...