I cant put away a short ball

[miniRafa386]

What could I be doing wrong when I get a short ball? I ALWAYS miss the ones that are low to my forehand, or the ones that just sit there.

HELP!!

[jmverdugo]

then dont try to put it away, gently hit it to a corner, dont go for a winner, eventually they will become winners.

[TB45]

(short balls meaning balls that bounce inside the service line?)

1 thing that is key for putting away a forehand winner is to take the ball at its highest point. If you take it too low, you'll need to put more topspin on the ball. If you take the ball at its highest point, you'll be able to hit down on it with not as much spin, but more power.

Im not sure if this will work but...for the balls that just sit there: I take a bigger swing for them. When the ball sits there, you're not able to return some of the power that was put on the ball, so you have to compensate for it. I also go by the "go big or go home" theory. When you have a chance to capitalize, take it. If you play too cautiously, you're not playing to win...you're playing not to lose.

good luck mate!

[miniRafa386]

(short balls meaning balls that bounce inside the service line?)

1 thing that is key for putting away a forehand winner is to take the ball at its highest point. If you take it too low, you'll need to put more topspin on the ball. If you take the ball at its highest point, you'll be able to hit down on it with not as much spin, but more power.

Im not sure if this will work but...for the balls that just sit there: I take a bigger swing for them. When the ball sits there, you're not able to return some of the power that was put on the ball, so you have to compensate for it. I also go by the "go big or go home" theory. When you have a chance to capitalize, take it. If you play too cautiously, you're not playing to win...you're playing not to lose.

good luck mate!

thanks for the advice, i meant balls inside, on, or around the service line.

i think your right about the go big or go home thing, but the thing is that i do take a huge cut at the ball when i try to go for it, i just miss. i should have told you about my game. i play heavy, heavy topspin off both sides, a step or so back from the baseline, and i try to move my opponent side to side, waiting for the short ball. i can do everything fine up until when i get the short ball, then all hell breaks loose.

thanks for the advice tho

[Coaching]

What I usually do is, as I chase the ball and I will hit a low bouncing ball around the service area I make sure that my racket head is pointing in the ground (head low) since I will impart a lot of spin and need a big wrist action. When I can reach for the high bouncing ones, I make sure my hitting arm is about shoulder high and hit from high to middle wrap around your body.

[Bud]

What could I be doing wrong when I get a short ball? I ALWAYS miss the ones that are low to my forehand, or the ones that just sit there.

HELP!!

This is usually a challenge for most people that are beginning to intermediate, as it's not an easy shot (plus, your adrenaline gets pumping when you see the opportunity ball).

As someone else stated, hit the ball at the highest point of the bounce... if possible. The sooner you recognize a short ball from your opponent's racquet, the sooner you can run in (and then prepare) to put the ball away... so, it's good footwork, too.

If it's really close to the net, try hitting the ball gently crosscourt (almost parallel to the net). You'll be sending the ball over the low part of the net and putting your opponent in a position (if they reach the ball) to either duplicate the shot you just hit or to go down the line... which is a much lower percentage shot if the short ball is close to the highest part of the net. If they duplicate your shot crosscourt, you're already standing there... just backup a bit in case they try and go behind you.

It's really just lots of practice, too (and a good amount of topspin). You'll get it.

[Grizvok]

(short balls meaning balls that bounce inside the service line?)

1 thing that is key for putting away a forehand winner is to take the ball at its highest point. If you take it too low, you'll need to put more topspin on the ball. If you take the ball at its highest point, you'll be able to hit down on it with not as much spin, but more power.

Im not sure if this will work but...for the balls that just sit there: I take a bigger swing for them. When the ball sits there, you're not able to return some of the power that was put on the ball, so you have to compensate for it. I also go by the "go big or go home" theory. When you have a chance to capitalize, take it. If you play too cautiously, you're not playing to win...you're playing not to lose.

good luck mate!

I agree and disagree. Definitely work on getting in position as quick as possible with your feet planted and ready to go, so that you can effectively hit the ball at its highest point.

HOWEVER, the type of ball that I believe you are talking about can often be pretty low if the opponent played a defensive slice or "squash shot" and in these situations I would totally advise you to stick with your heavy topspin and get solid placement with your shot.

Vary your spin based on the height of the ball and how close to the net you are.

[Strawberry]

Try Falcon Punching it. Works for me.

[bleu]

Footwork is definitely the key. Try and get there early, STOP, and set yourself up for the shot. You'll find your consistency far greater than if you try to hit it whilst still moving on the run.

[5263]

Since you are in the habit of hitting big, heavy spins shots, you probably really lift with your legs up into your strokes, enhancing your TS. That is fine for baseline rallys, but maybe not for your short ball attacks.

Try addressing the ball in about the same manner, but not lifting much or at all with your legs as you stroke the short ones. Keep you head down and Focus on less net clearance and hitting out thru the court. See if this gives you a more controllable short ball attack.

[Ross K]

. Hit on the rise.

. As you're stepping in turn your grip more Eastern.

. Focus on hitting/punching through the ball.

[Moz]

If you want to put the thing away I suggest you shorten your backswing but keep your racquet high (about the height of the ball) and then flatten the stroke out with a good follow through.

The feeling is basically wrapping your arm and racquet around your shoulders. Assuming the ball is shoulder height the initiation of your swing and finish of your swing will be about the same height. The flatness of the swing should enable a killer shot. But if you do this you have to commit to the shot, not bugger around.

If the ball is any lower than this you would be hitting a lot more top and going for an angled approach rather than a put away and as a result you would hit more of a typical low to high forehand swing.

[Moz]

BTW - this does take a fair bit of practice to get the timing right and previous posters were correct in saying get to the ball asap and take it as high as possible.

Of course, in obvious creaming situations like this the drop shot can be effective as a put away as well.

[10s talk]

chip and charge

[Julieta]

What could I be doing wrong when I get a short ball? I ALWAYS miss the ones that are low to my forehand, or the ones that just sit there.

HELP!!

I've known a few players who were incredible at these kinds of shots. The things they had in common were movement to the ball and the movement after the shot, superior balance, knowing when to attack and when not to attack (not all short balls are created equal especially if you're playing against someone with heavy spins) and most important - they practiced it. I used to practice next to this dude who was really good and he spent a huge amount of his practice time on hitting short balls. Short high balls, short low balls, etc.. Actually I am not sure he practiced much else as far as groundstrokes were concerned.

[SlapShot]

Footwork.

You should be taking the ball high, and you shouldn't have to pound the ball to make a good offensive shot. You should try and hit a shot that gives you the highest percentage of getting it in play, with good pace and placement. It doesn't need to be a winner - you should be able to set up a good volley with a short ball. Use it as an approach rather than trying to hit a winner outright.

[seb85]

You should be hitting those balls with the mindset of making a good approach and then putting away an easy volley. There is no point in pounding the ball for all its worth- you're far more likely to miss it. Instead place it with heavy topspin (or heavy slice if you like) near but not in the corner. Get it as close as you can without missing any. Then cover the line and wait for the easy put away.

THis applies doubly if the ball is low off the ground. There is no point squandering your hard fought court position for the sake of hitting a flashy winner.

Sometimes it will go for a winner or an unreturnable, esp as you practice it more. If you force the issue you will make too many mistakes. Matches are won and lost on points like this- UEs will hurt you badly as you are finding out :)

Seb

[miniRafa386]

This is usually a challenge for most people that are beginning to intermediate, as it's not an easy shot (plus, your adrenaline gets pumping when you see the opportunity ball).

As someone else stated, hit the ball at the highest point of the bounce... if possible. The sooner you recognize a short ball from your opponent's racquet, the sooner you can run in (and then prepare) to put the ball away... so, it's good footwork, too.

If it's really close to the net, try hitting the ball gently crosscourt (almost parallel to the net). You'll be sending the ball over the low part of the net and putting your opponent in a position (if they reach the ball) to either duplicate the shot you just hit or to go down the line... which is a much lower percentage shot if the short ball is close to the highest part of the net. If they duplicate your shot crosscourt, you're already standing there... just backup a bit in case they try and go behind you.

It's really just lots of practice, too (and a good amount of topspin). You'll get it.

the thing is that im no where near a beginner or an intermediate. i used to have this massive forehand where i could put any ball away on it, now i dont know where it is.

i guess im playing hide and seek with my forehand :)

thanks for all the advice guys

[toughshot]

bend your knees and swing really really fast.

[Quasar]

You sound like me miniRafa, I used to have a similar problem. And I'm pretty sure the problem is the same which is that when moving up to the shorter ball there is too much foreward momentum as you hit the shot. This means less topsin control and consistency. So I would say you should focus on getting to that shorter ball and stopping your body's momentum, then let it rip like you normally would. And if it's really short and you can't fully get there in time then just step with your right foot and flick it. Pretty sure this will work for you, report back.

[tata]

How important is footwork for these balls?(just wondering) I assume that because its a short ball you should run to the ball and take smaller steps instead of taking big lunges and rushing the ball?

[arnz]

String tighter :)

[Quasar]

How important is footwork for these balls?(just wondering) I assume that because its a short ball you should run to the ball and take smaller steps instead of taking big lunges and rushing the ball?

Yeah, it's important. For the same reasons as I was just mentioning. Because if you are lunging into it you are going to have foreward momentum with your body and that will make it harder (very hard) to rip a topspin winner. It's great that the French Open is on right now because Nadal gives a good example of how to put away a short ball about every other point. Watch him move up in the court, stop himself and set up, and rip a winner. Apparently it helps to say "uuuuhhh" as you do it too.:)

[Bungalo Bill]

Yeah, it's important. For the same reasons as I was just mentioning. Because if you are lunging into it you are going to have foreward momentum with your body and that will make it harder (very hard) to rip a topspin winner. It's great that the French Open is on right now because Nadal gives a good example of how to put away a short ball about every other point. Watch him move up in the court, stop himself and set up, and rip a winner. Apparently it helps to say "uuuuhhh" as you do it too.:)

Good point, perhaps the remedy to this is being able to recognize when the opponent will have a good chance in hitting a short ball based on your shot and moving forward in such a way to allow a player to setup properly as you mentioned Nadal does well.

[zebano]

A couple of things.

1. Recognition and footspeed are key. Get there early and it's easy to put the ball away (you can alwo run around to your dominant side).
2. Assuming you don't get there when the ball is high (or it's a short slice etc.) practice hitting a slower very topspin centric shot. Doing this allows me to either hit up the line or hit a very short angle crosscourt ball.

I keep my knees bent and hit with a very short backswing and a very loose grip on the racket and hit with a much more upward follow-through than my typical topspin shot (which is more of a out then up motion).

If you really want to kill the ball, then get to it earlier.

[kimbahpnam]

learn to hit a shot like the federer vs ancic set pointer :)

[Bungalo Bill]

A couple of things.

1. Recognition and footspeed are key. Get there early and it's easy to put the ball away (you can alwo run around to your dominant side).
2. Assuming you don't get there when the ball is high (or it's a short slice etc.) practice hitting a slower very topspin centric shot. Doing this allows me to either hit up the line or hit a very short angle crosscourt ball.

I keep my knees bent and hit with a very short backswing and a very loose grip on the racket and hit with a much more upward follow-through than my typical topspin shot (which is more of a out then up motion).

If you really want to kill the ball, then get to it earlier.

That is the key issue regarding the shortball.

Many folks look at the finished result (setup and hit) as the key in hitting a short ball. However, there is a whole decision and movement chain that needs to be reviewed that happens before (and is critical) if a player ever gets into position to hit a short ball cleanly and consistently.

[Ryoma]

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.

[Bungalo Bill]

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.

Now, why would you ever say take a big swing at the ball?

[SlapShot]

Now, why would you ever say take a big swing at the ball?

I'd guess that he likes to pepper the back fence without bouncing the ball on the way.

[Ryoma]

Now, why would you ever say take a big swing at the ball?

That's how I handle short ball. The worst advice for short ball is shorten the stroke. It never worked and never will. If you can't take a big swing at the short ball, I feel sorry for you. I used to be a sucker for short balls too~

[Bungalo Bill]

That's how I handle short ball. The worst advice for short ball is shorten the stroke. It never worked and never will. If you can't take a big swing at the short ball, I feel sorry for you. I used to be a sucker for short balls too~

LOL, whoaaa, well now you are getting down right nasty about it based on a simple question. Calling me a sucker and that I can't take a big swing at a ball? The advice to shorten the backswing has been around for years and now you think it is wrong? LOL!

Well maybe it didn't work for you (of course I doubt you even know how to do it), it certainly worked for me and I can plaster the ball anytime I want.

I am all for swinging fast through the ball to generate pace and topspin if that is what you are attempting to do (some like to hit flat and others with topspin), but taking a big backswing along with it is foolishness.

So I think you need to clarify.

For a short ball, timing and clean contact are paramount. Using a large backswing will play havoc on consistency, timing, and making clean contact. A player does not need to use a big backswing that far into the court for a short ball to put the ball away with a good amount of pace. You already have a time advantage and are now in position to angle off the ball or drive it into a corner to putaway the next ball if it comes back. It is foolish to work your way in getting a short ball and then take a big swing at it and increase your chance to error when you don't have to.

It just sound like to me that you dont know how to swing fast and alter your backswing.

[tricky]

Yeah, I'm curious too. One common problem with short balls is that it kinda seduces you to take a big cut at the ball. But that seems like what you recommend

[FloridaAG]

Under most circumstances, taking a big swing at a short ball is a recipe for disaster - It is akin to taking a huge swing on a 1st service return - totally unnecessary and cause of frequent errors.

[Bungalo Bill]

Under most circumstances, taking a big swing at a short ball is a recipe for disaster - It is akin to taking a huge swing on a 1st service return - totally unnecessary and cause of frequent errors.

Very good, and yes, it is painfully obvious. I'm keenly interested in my buddy Ryoma's response because I need a good laugh. It makes me laugh when people start fuming and cursing. :)

[Nellie]

I think there is a misunderstanding above about using a full follow through versus using a full backswing.

I would advocate shortening the backswing of the stroke for better control but a full followthrough for enough zip

[BravoRed691]

I have a simple solution: You can cut the strings out of your racket...this way u'll drop that volley on your side of the court EVERYTIME! Innovative huh? :-)

Br

[Bungalo Bill]

I think there is a misunderstanding above about using a full follow through versus using a full backswing.

I would advocate shortening the backswing of the stroke for better control but a full followthrough for enough zip

Exactly why I asked the question, however, based on his response, I think he is talking about the entire swing. Here is his first response:

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.

Then after the nice compliments he gave me, I gathered he meant the backswing as well. Most people talk about shortening the stroke from the backswing portion. What he fails to realize is a player can hit the ball plenty hard with a short backswing and go through the ball as well. :)

[Djokovicfan4life]

Very good, and yes, it is painfully obvious. I'm keenly interested in my buddy Ryoma's response because I need a good laugh. It makes me laugh when people start fuming and cursing. :)

Don't forget calling you a 3.5 at best. :)

[babolatisduhbomb]

just make the guy run dont hit a winner and dont run while u take the shot stop

[2nd_Serve]

This is just something I do. I don't try to hit a winner, I just try to hit it to their backhand, aggressively. This makes them hit a high backspin shot for an easy smash. That is a winner. Also, most of the time, opponents expect a down the line for a short ball. I like to use a lot of spin, and hit a short cross court. That is usually a winner for me. Or, they go for too much, and that is an easy error from them. Occasionally, I just do a drop shot.

[Ryoma]

I assume you are talking about short balls, not drop shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ghQDjcfOcs

Master of mid court patterns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151rVtXSmho&NR=1

[Bungalo Bill]

Don't forget calling you a 3.5 at best. :)

He called me a 3.5?

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!

He obviously doesn't know who I am. I am so insulted and never in my life have been so humiliated. How dare he.

(Sniff, sniff) My feelings are sooooo hurt. Wow, a whole half-point lower then my buddies in the park think I am.

And to think, I have worked this hard, to come all this way and have someone who thinks he is better then everyone else call me a 3.5. WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?

If he was a real coach, he would be on the court. If he really ever played tennis, he might try playing.

BOINGO-DOINGO-BILL, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARRRRREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He likes to rate everyone lower just to be mean to them. Put your videos up and let me see you try and hit a ball. Come on, where are you!

That's it, thank goodness for the ability to turn you off. You aren't a coach, you're a insecure person who needs help. Did you take your meds Bill?

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!!!!!! WHaaaaaaaaaaaaa:cry:

[SlapShot]

BBill, you're an acquired taste, but that last post made me guffaw quite heartily.

[Djokovicfan4life]

He called me a 3.5?

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!

He obviously doesn't know who I am. I am so insulted and never in my life have been so humiliated. How dare he.

(Sniff, sniff) My feelings are sooooo hurt. Wow, a whole half-point lower then my buddies in the park think I am.

And to think, I have worked this hard, to come all this way and have someone who thinks he is better then everyone else call me a 3.5. WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS?

If he was a real coach, he would be on the court. If he really ever played tennis, he might try playing.

BOINGO-DOINGO-BILL, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARRRRREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He likes to rate everyone lower just to be mean to them. Put your videos up and let me see you try and hit a ball. Come on, where are you!

That's it, thank goodness for the ability to turn you off. You aren't a coach, you're a insecure person who needs help. Did you take your meds Bill?

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!!!!!! WHaaaaaaaaaaaaa:cry:

He didn't call you a 3.5, but most people do after they throw their little tantrums.

[Quasar]

LOL, whoaaa, well now you are getting down right nasty about it based on a simple question. Calling me a sucker and that I can't take a big swing at a ball? The advice to shorten the backswing has been around for years and now you think it is wrong? LOL!

Well maybe it didn't work for you (of course I doubt you even know how to do it), it certainly worked for me and I can plaster the ball anytime I want.


You need to get a grip on the reality of you being pretentiously obnoxious. You did not just ask him a simple question. A simple question would be: "why do you think this?" you asked "Now, why would you ever say that", which is condescending just like you meant it to be. Then you say he is getting nasty. He wasn't, he responded appropriately to your condescending attitude, don't kid yourself. Nobody with a brain is buying it. Then he posted video of himself showing ability to back up his statements and you pretended like that didn't happen. Why don't you post a video of yourself using the short backswing on a short ball in response to his or at least just be aware of your pretentious bs.

[Bungalo Bill]

You need to get a grip on the reality of you being pretentiously obnoxious. You did not just ask him a simple question. A simple question would be: "why do you think this?" you asked "Now, why would you ever say that", which is condescending just like you meant it to be.

So two wrongs make a right? LOL!

Wow, more crying. My question is my question. If I wanted to get nasty about it, I would have. However, if you want to frame a question your way that is your thing. There was nothing in my question that was personally insulting. Why don't you bring that up? Afraid?

Then you say he is getting nasty. He wasn't, he responded appropriately to your condescending attitude, don't kid yourself. Nobody with a brain is buying it.

He did? So with this post that you are replying to me on can I insult you now?

Then he posted video of himself showing ability to back up his statements and you pretended like that didn't happen. Why don't you post a video of yourself using the short backswing on a short ball in response to his or at least just be aware of your pretentious bs.

Yeah, this is where you go wrong again. How many times do you need to be wrong!

First, I didnt see the video and I don't need to. Second, who cares if he posted it of himself. It still doesn't change the larger consensus that htting through the ball with a measured backswing is poor instruction or that it should be ignored. This is what he said is BS.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!!

Nobody is telling him not to do it himself. However, instructionally he isn't even close. It is his own personal feeling.

You really shouldnt be picking fights. Are you the one that I said was a half-point lower then you thought and started crying about it?

[arnz]

I learned a long time ago who to ignore around here :)

[Bungalo Bill]

I learned a long time ago who to ignore around here :)

Here is another rude post I did:

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2400881#post2400881)
This is not true. The ball is on the strings for about 4 milliseconds. This is less time then you can blink your eye. Your senses can not respond that quickly and you can not do a darn thing to the ball once it leaves the strings.

Further, turning over the ball is the worst way to hit topsin on the ball and the slo-motion frames you are seeing is deceiving. Trying to time a wrist snap and rolling your wrist over the ball is a great way to build inconsistency.

The forward movement of the wrist should happen from the natural slow down in the rate of acceleration of your arm. This will happen as your arm moves in front of the body plane.

Because the ball is on the strings for a very short amount of time, the best way to hit topspin is from a low to high brush on the ball, and later as one develops, by rotating the racquet face up the back of the ball at the same time.

By the time your brain received the signal that the ball hit the strings, the ball is already long gone and trying to do anything else to the ball is futile.

I got more...lol

[Political Thunder]

One of the funnest drills is to have someone feed you short balls and you pound it at the corners. Try that.

[Steady Eddy]

You mean a ball short enough so that after you hit it, you'll have no choice but to be at the net?

This used to be when I'd lose the point, after I'd hit that short ball, I'd get passed at the net. I figured I had to be more aggressive with the shot. My game's mostly about keeping it in play, but a short ball forces me to take more chances. If I don't do something aggressive w/ it, I'll just be a sitting duck at the net.

So, experiment, and see how aggressive you should be for your game.

[Quasar]

I learned a long time ago who to ignore around here :)

Yeah, I figured it would be pretty futile. His ability to rationalize his own bs to himself is kind of amazing.

BB you should really go see a therapist for your insecurity issues. Seriously, it's what's best for you.

[Bungalo Bill]

BB you should really go see a therapist for your insecurity issues. Seriously, it's what's best for you.


Gosh, I was thinking the same about you. Sounds like I keep you up at night. lol

I help too many people around here to listen to you. That is painfully obvious. Your comments are meaningless and your bitterness really stands out after I gave you a rating you didnt like. You just need to get over it. I have nothing against you.

My question stands though here. I will not change it. Bad instruction is bad instruction.

It is bad instruction to tell a player to just swing away without knowing how they balance themselves, approach the ball, position themselves to the ball, or anything else. PERIOD.

Also? My rating stands for you. You won't change my mind until you post another video that shows me differently.

[Quasar]

What planet are you living on? I have never posted a video on here. You have never rated me, that was someone else. Jesus, you have no grip on reality. And nobody ever said to swing away without being in balance and set up to the ball. You live in a fantasy land ruled by your ego.

[Bungalo Bill]

This is a very typical TW thread. Guy asks a reasonable question and gets presented with 'experts' who dont even care enough or know enough about the situation to fairly comment or ask the right questions. Then.....the thread turns into streaming insults

It would be helpful to know your playing level and also what grip you are using on your forehand side. Typically, folks with a grip approaching extreme on the forehand have lots of trouble w. short lowbounding skidding balls to their forehand. A milder grip on those sorts of balls would help a lot. In any case, you would want to make sure you get low to the ball by bending with your knees rather than your back and just get those balls deep in the court back in play (those are hard balls to deal with for many people)...if you have a net game, this is a good time to get into the net.
As far as the balls that just sit there inviting to be pummeled, the common error is to not stay with the shot long enough (to come off the ball) and to overhit.
Since we arent there, it is impossible to say w. any certainty what you are doing. A lesson w. a quality TP is always helpfeul. Also there are drills you can do which address this and that will make it easier for you to deal w. balls like this in match play. later, Mojo

Hi NBM, please dont take this personal because I would hate to undo what has happened between us.

I don't know if I should take your sentence as an insult. I may not understand what you mean. It would be surprising if you did mean it that way considering the amount of time I have spent trying to help people. All of us can hind sight each other to death. I hope you realize that I do understand that it is important to understand where the player is at although I don't always ask it.

I do know a lot about tennis as do you and have proven it. Often all of us just answer the question of the OP assuming certain things. We may come at it differently but I have studied the game, studied instruction, studied coaching, and have developed my style around that.

I agree with your comments which is what my comments throughout this thread was sort of getting at.

It is not good instruction to tell someone to swing away without understanding what the player is doing or like you said what level he is at which is why I asked the question. I would rather error on the conservative.

We both know that swinging away requires a foundation to support it. Further, no matter what grip or anything else is prescribed, I would not support a big swing anyway. It is the instructional base that I subscribe to. Going through the ball I would subscribe to along with a measured backswing which I have already said in previous posts above.

On the grip thing, I dont know if I agree with you on that. I would have to learn more about why you are saying that. For me, the grip thing would depend on the height of the ball, the swing path through the ball, and the ability of a player to get into position to take the ball considering their grip choice.

[Bungalo Bill]

BB...my comments were in the realm of generalizing. it is up to any individual to determine if they pertain specifically to them

Okay, if you are generalizing, and I was involved in this, I will assume you were directing it at me. Now, I hope you will be fair.

I am taking you might not have read all the posts starting with #1. The flaming started after my response on post #29 which was totally uncalled for. Quasars response was also uncalled for especially since I clarified my question at post #38. He was simply looking to start a fight. When I post so many times to help people here and my posts (I know) offer sound advice over and over again, there is always going to be those that don't like that.
Here are the posts.

Originally Posted by Quasar http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2392258#post2392258)
Yeah, it's important. For the same reasons as I was just mentioning. Because if you are lunging into it you are going to have foreward momentum with your body and that will make it harder (very hard) to rip a topspin winner. It's great that the French Open is on right now because Nadal gives a good example of how to put away a short ball about every other point. Watch him move up in the court, stop himself and set up, and rip a winner. Apparently it helps to say "uuuuhhh" as you do it too.:smile:
My response: Good point, perhaps the remedy to this is being able to recognize when the opponent will have a good chance in hitting a short ball based on your shot and moving forward in such a way to allow a player to setup properly as you mentioned Nadal does well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryoma http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2394469#post2394469)
Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.
My response: Now, why would you ever say take a big swing at the ball?

This was my response after 20+ posts of good replies? This was wrong? Quasar clearly took my response out of context especially since I clarified my response several posts later. I didn't ask for the insults that came afterwards. I didnt appreciate Quasars msinterpretation because of his "thing" against me. I don't mind being told when I am wrong, I dont mind being told that I started the fight, however, what I will not tolerate is someone telling me that I started something when it is clear that I didn't. That is lying. That is a false accusation.

Please help me understand this because everyone here is guilty of flaming and ******* people off. Everyone is guilty of making sly indirect remarks and sayig they didn't mean anything about it or "if the shoe fits" type answers. Help me out NBM. I am hoping I am speaking to one that is fair about this. Please tell me what is wrong based on the context of this entire thread. I will be more then happy to apoligize for a wrong doing.

regarding the grip thing, since the OP's handle has Rafa in it, and he struggles with low short balls, that lead me to believe he might have a western forehand grip. it's hard to get under a low skidding ball with a semi or full western grip..those balls are far more easier to deal with using a milder grip. Just ask Connors..remember how people used to intentionally hit low short balls to his forehand? it was his biggest vulnerability.

Yes, I see your point. If th ball is skidding then I would agree with you. However, I did not get that out of the title of this thread "I can't putaway the short ball." This I interpretted as the ball is sitting up.

as from my personal experiences...whenever i am faced w. a bollietierreaarea kid w. a big western forehand, my standard play is to hit something deep to his backhand....they usually try and run around that (which I am hoping they do) and hit an inside out over to my backhand side (which i am hoping they do). I respond with a sliced shorter in the court backahnd to his forehand side. it doesnt have to even be up the line or particualry well placed....that gives them a very big distance to run and they most usually cant get under the ball because their grip is too strong. i am talking righty vs righty

Yes, I agree with that. You are simply attacking the grips and are using the court to implement your ideas. That is sound thinking.

[mishin900]

when I get a low bouncing short ball, I try to use the momentum of moving in and just aim the corners with adequate spin. I don't really go for winner unless the ball is bouncing above the waist level.

[Ryoma]

LOL, whoaaa, well now you are getting down right nasty about it based on a simple question. Calling me a sucker and that I can't take a big swing at a ball? The advice to shorten the backswing has been around for years and now you think it is wrong? LOL!

Well maybe it didn't work for you (of course I doubt you even know how to do it), it certainly worked for me and I can plaster the ball anytime I want.

I am all for swinging fast through the ball to generate pace and topspin if that is what you are attempting to do (some like to hit flat and others with topspin), but taking a big backswing along with it is foolishness.

So I think you need to clarify.

For a short ball, timing and clean contact are paramount. Using a large backswing will play havoc on consistency, timing, and making clean contact. A player does not need to use a big backswing that far into the court for a short ball to put the ball away with a good amount of pace. You already have a time advantage and are now in position to angle off the ball or drive it into a corner to putaway the next ball if it comes back. It is foolish to work your way in getting a short ball and then take a big swing at it and increase your chance to error when you don't have to.

It just sound like to me that you dont know how to swing fast and alter your backswing.

This is your response. Why don't we vote to have BB post a video of himself playing tennis?

[Bungalo Bill]

This is your response. Why don't we vote to have BB post a video of himself playing tennis?

Do you know how many times I have heard that? When will you get it through your head. This is a board about instruction and tips.

I tell you what, we can make a deal. If you spend the next four years helping people for free here, being available 24/7 and are willing to take emails, videos, and anything else to help a player improve, I will post my videos.

Otherwise, let me be perfectly blunt, your tip? Is worth nothing because you have no basis to offer that advice.

[Bungalo Bill]

I assume you are talking about short balls, not drop shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ghQDjcfOcs

Master of mid court patterns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151rVtXSmho&NR=1

Here is your comment.
Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.

Here is the posters concern:
I ALWAYS miss the ones that are low to my forehand, or the ones that just sit there.

First off, we are talking about a short ball and a ball that you put away. Not a ball hit from no-man's land that would be difficult to put away which you are showing.

Second, on each of these concerns footwork, balance, positioning is going to take precendence over taking a big swing. A measured backswing is called for in both of these circumstances.

Third, offering this advice based on seasoned players is also premature.

None of your videos showed a low ball or a ball that just sat there for a putaway ball except for Rodgers volley putaway if you want to count that!

In the first video, the player is an advanced player WITH a coach. This player was hitting his twohanded backhand in no-man's land which is debatable whether that really is a "SHORT BALL" which is what we are talking about.

Again, none of the balls that player hit were PUT AWAY balls.

This is what a short ball is: :wink:

1. Look at point #3 and the title of this article.

2. Point #3 is well inside the service court. THAT IS A SHORT BALL TO PUT AWAY.

http://www.tennis.com/yourgame/instructionarticles/drills/drills.aspx?id=9594

[Ryoma]

The purpose of rallying at the baseline is to exploit your opponent's weakness.
It should either force a short ball, an unforced error or let you hit an outright winner. A short ball is any ball between #1 and the net.

"Short ball low to forehand or the ones just sat there?"

Again, it go back to my original post, "Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke. "

First, ask why your opponent is able to hit a low short ball or give you a ball that just sat there? The mindset you should put your opponent in is to make him feel sorry that he return the ball short. If you can't take a ball swing at the short ball? Ask why again, then do whatever it needs to get in the position to take a big swing at the ball.

I don't plan to provide advices like yours. No video? your tip? Is worth nothing because you have no basis to offer that advice. I will leave the teaching to those who can't do.

[Quasar]

BB, if you really want to help people you should post of a video of yourself hitting a short ball.

Ryoma, was that you in the video with the coach tossing balls?

[Julieta]

as from my personal experiences...whenever i am faced w. a bollietierreaarea kid w. a big western forehand, my standard play is to hit something deep to his backhand....they usually try and run around that (which I am hoping they do) and hit an inside out over to my backhand side (which i am hoping they do). I respond with a sliced shorter in the court backahnd to his forehand side. it doesnt have to even be up the line or particualry well placed....that gives them a very big distance to run and they most usually cant get under the ball because their grip is too strong. i am talking righty vs righty

NBM and BB,

Great info in all posts from the both of you. What is the counterattack for this? Rather than an inside out, is it better to hit a high topspin backhand as a reply? Or a slice backhand? Would playing up in the court help? Thanks!

[armsty]

All I can say when you get a short ball is don't rush, take your time, and keep it cool. Remember if you hit it in the right spot, doesn't matter if it's only at 50% pace, if it isn't a winner or an unforced error by them, it will be a simple put away volley.

[Bungalo Bill]

BB, if you really want to help people you should post of a video of yourself hitting a short ball.

Ryoma, was that you in the video with the coach tossing balls?

So posting a video of me hitting a short will help? If you think it would, lets see you. :confused:

I love the concern though. I like the word you used "if" you are willing to help people. I haven't shown time and time again that I am helping people?

Would you really be interested in helping me play better? Because that is the only reason I would post myself. I would want to be crituqued to play better. If you offered me good advice but it wasn't something I wanted to hear, I would look at it to improve my abilites.

My playing days are over, I dont have the time, I cant take a whole weekend to compete in tourament, and when you are not playing all the time, the strokes get rusty. Why would I show that?

I am not interested in impressing me or you. I don't care to do anything in tennis except help others play better by giving them the best possible instruction I can give based on my experience in tennis, coaching, and my professoonal career for free.

So why dont you be fair about it. If you want me to apoligize for hurting your feelings, I will. I am having a hard time figuring out when I did it!

I am going to keep providing instruction to help others. If you can't appreciate that, well, I am sorry.

[Bungalo Bill]

The purpose of rallying at the baseline is to exploit your opponent's weakness.
It should either force a short ball, an unforced error or let you hit an outright winner. A short ball is any ball between #1 and the net.

But it is not a short ball putaway. You are now stretching things. You could also consider your videos an approach shot. Agressively putting pressure on your opponent from a well struck ball while being still deep into the court may produce a winner or an unforced error, but it is not considered a short ball putaway.

I am all for stepping into the court and rifling a ball.

"Short ball low to forehand or the ones just sat there?"

Again, it go back to my original post, "Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke. "

I have already said that going through the ball will still give a player the ability to steam through the ball.

Here is what you are not seeing. In both videos, there were no short ball put aways unless you want to consider Federers putaway volley. Also, all the players shown used a backswing that stayed on the same side of the body (Federer included).

This is a measured backswing. This is something you learn, it isn't something that everyone gets.

The posters had two problems:

1. The low ball (thinking this is a put away) which may not be the best time to try and put away the ball.

2. The sitter

This obviously takes into account whether he is able to:

1. Approach the sitter on time (ball judgement, forward movement)

2. Stay balanced on his feet (setup)

3. Move to the ball smoothly so he doesn't cause his eyes to jiggle in his sockets (vision)

4. Grip choice

5. Head movement

6. Measured backswing

First, ask why your opponent is able to hit a low short ball or give you a ball that just sat there? The mindset you should put your opponent in is to make him feel sorry that he return the ball short. If you can't take a ball swing at the short ball? Ask why again, then do whatever it needs to get in the position to take a big swing at the ball.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am all for what you said above - hitting through the ball and putting steam on it. I love that! It is a sitter, kill it! I think it is assertive tennis and that is the shot you nail. That is also how I coach any player willing to go through my practices.

However, as you move further into the court, it is important for a player to take a measured backswing that allows him to plaster the ball but maintain his balance, coordination, consistency, timing, and stability.

I a concerned with the backswing not the forward swing.

I don't plan to provide advices like yours. No video? your tip? Is worth nothing because you have no basis to offer that advice. I will leave the teaching to those who can't do.

Yeah, this is just stuff not even worth replying to. Why is that someone who disagrees with you must then show a video of himself? This is just an instructional website. It doesn't matter if I played King Kong, we are helping people here get good advice for free.

If you want to improve, ask a question but be man enough to admit you might have offered advice without thinking through the issues or what you're asking a player to have already down. My gosh.

[Bungalo Bill]

NBM and BB,

Great info in all posts from the both of you. What is the counterattack for this? Rather than an inside out, is it better to hit a high topspin backhand as a reply? Or a slice backhand? Would playing up in the court help? Thanks!

Well NBM is certainly using a strategy/tactic that has worked for years, and that is to attack the grips.

Additionally, NBM is taking it a step further and is using all parts of the court and not just the ball he hits (keeping it low to a western grip).

That is very smart play.

Some things to consider that would help you would be:

1. Attack your opponents grips and court position right back.

2. Work on your grips weakness and learn to recognize when you are being exploited. It could be I might have to be patient while the opponent has the upper hand until I can get a ball I can turn the tables.

It all goes back to SWOT. Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats.

[Ryoma]

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgWCcYl54xM

[BeHappy]

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgWCcYl54xM

Bottle ?

[Bungalo Bill]

Take a big swing at the ball. Don't shorten your stroke.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgWCcYl54xM

Hi Ryoma,

Yes, that is fine. The person you are showing is clearly taking a measured takeback of the racquet or backswing. Then he swings forward with authority. I am all for that. :)

What we don't want is someone using an unreasonable backswing to do what you are asking or hit wildly. Also, we need to consider the other elements like balance, movement, ball recognition, and footwork that need to support a faster swing which could be the posters problem areas.

Also, that still is not a shortball putaway. His volley put away the ball. The shot where he hit it to the deuce court corner was his approach shot and was not just sitting there. I have not been able to find a shortball putaway to post as well.

So to summarize, as a player gets closer and closer to the net, it is the backswing that needs to be measured so we have to be careful what we advise. Some players aren't as good as you are and dont learn as you do. :)

[Julieta]

Well NBM is certainly using a strategy/tactic that has worked for years, and that is to attack the grips.

Additionally, NBM is taking it a step further and is using all parts of the court and not just the ball he hits (keeping it low to a western grip).

That is very smart play.

Some things to consider that would help you would be:

1. Attack your opponents grips and court position right back.

2. Work on your grips weakness and learn to recognize when you are being exploited. It could be I might have to be patient while the opponent has the upper hand until I can get a ball I can turn the tables.

It all goes back to SWOT. Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats.

Thanks, great advice as always. Actually my game could use an objective updated SWOT analysis and then I could develop some new practice plans. This sport...it is hard!!!! I need to work more on up and back movement too which would help.

[Julieta]

Hi..thanks. I would say it would depend on how fast the ball was coming to you, the bounce, and where in the court you will hit the shot from..it's very much situational. There are drills you can do for this stuff which present shot patterns and point construction. One mistake many do is to run around and hit and inside out from a position near to the sideline with theor follow thru pulling them wide of the court and their weight going in the wrong direction for revovery....puts them way out of position for the next ball. that makes my sliced backhand short court to their forehand even more effective. I teach positioning...I like the run around forehand when it doesnt take you far out of position for the next ball unless you feel you are going to hit a winner....Actually I am big on what I call a step around forehand...thats got much lower risk. Always remember that hitting over the low part of the net (ie cross court whether being a reg xcourt shot or and inside out forehand) is your basic percentage ball. changing the direction is more advanced so more subject to UE's...Mojo

Cool...thanks. This goes with what I was taught...no inside outs if you're in the alley to hit it. i was also taught to step behind (I am right handed so first step to hit inside out is right foot crossing behind left leg) to set up for the inside out...not sure if this is the norm or not and I don't always do it. And even though I have been told not to run around my forehand in extreme situations...sometimes I get crazy and do it anyway. Sigh. I have to be saved from myself. I think because I don't make many errors on the inside out (I can hit the thirty balls plus lol) I tend to hit that especially when under pressure. In any case, I have a lot of stuff to do on the practice court! Thanks again!