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janipyt05
06-04-2008, 03:51 PM
I looked where to add this but can't find a place

Your thoughts on this people thank you

Gael Monfils, Novak Djokovic and the Point of Divergence

May 31, 2008

Gael Monfils is in the midst of his 3rd round match at this year’s French Open against Jurgen Melzer. The two are tied one set apiece with Melzer leading 3-2 in the third set.

Who would have guessed four year ago when Monfils won the first three junior Grand Slam events, Australian, French, and Wimbledon, that today in 2008, Monfils would be ranked behind countrymen #9 Richard Gasquet, #11 Jo-Wilfred Tsonga, #19 Paul-Henri Mathieu, #29 Gilles Simon, Michel Llorda (#41), Nicolas Mahut, #50 Fabrice Santoro, #55 Julian Benneteau, #56 Marc Giquel, and #57 Sebatien Grosjean.

Monfils is #59.

Who could have guessed three years ago, when he played his best friend at the time, Novak Djokovic, in the first round of the U.S. Open, that Monfils would lose that match after winning the fourth set, 6-0. And who would have guessed that that match would be the point of divergence between the two players.

Djokovic is #3.

Both players, age 21, are charismatic off the court and young talents on it. But while Monfils was marked for stardom, especially when he reached the round of 16 at the French Open just two years ago, Djokovic was a relatively unknown as a junior and began 2006 at #78 in the world. Monfils began 2006 at #30. Monfils reached #23 in the world after that French Open but took a precipitous fall and finished the season #46. Meantime Djokovic left the French #40, but ended his 2006 season all the way up to #16.

(Monfils lost the third set, 6-4, but is leading 2-0 early in the fourth set.)

What was the point of divergence between the two? After the French, Monfils dealt with some nagging injuries which forced him to miss much of the summer U.S. hardcourt season. But he came into the U.S. Open healthy and ready to make a splash in America. That first round U.S. Open match against Djokovic was expected to be tough, as matches against friends, especially when the players grew up together in the junior ranks always are. But Gael was slotted to win and move on.

But the fifth and final set between the two, which ended 7-5 for Djokovic, told a sad tale of the nature of the game today.

Djokovic began that final set by taking a “bathroom” break which most often in tennis circles means a player is losing and is hoping to break the momentum of his or her opponent. And on his way to finally winning, Djokovic would ask for the trainer or stall and reduce the match to a drawn out crawl a grand total of a dozen times. Six times he asked for the trainer. Six times on the court Djokovic limped around the court with “cramps” or some other alleged ailment.

Because of their friendship, Monfils was more than gracious toward his friend, allowing him to take more than the allotted time to gather himself so that Djokovic might have the opportunity to finish the match honorably in what ever fashion he chose.

But while Monfils acted the gentlemen, even the casual observer could see that Djokovic was taking advantage of the largesse his friend afforded him. Whenever the Serbian won points, he seemed miraculously energized. When he lost a point, he acted as if he was about to enter into the dangerous physical realm of a full body cramp. After his serve was broken in the fifth, which was repeatedly, he would call for the trainer on change-overs. Dutifully the employee of the men’s tour would trot out and massage Djokovic’s legs, or shoulder, or back, or all three. After some massages the Serb would stand, take a step, stop, and slump back into his chair, apparently needing yet another round of rubbing.

(Monfils won the fourth set, 6-0.)

As the final set wore on, the pauses became more pronounced, the massages longer, the stalling between points more often. The New York crowd sensed Djokovic was faking and began to jeer him. The average opponent would have complained to the chair umpire after the third or fourth play stoppage, after Djokovic held his hand in the air to stop Monfils from serving just before the Frenchman was about to toss the ball into the air.

At one point the crowd broke out into full booing after Djokovic won a drawn out point in which each player executed at least a dozen groundstrokes apiece and then, when he lost the following point, the stalling for time began anew. But Monfils implored the spectators to refrain from booing his brother in arms - and only at his behest did they stop.

When the final point was played, Djokovic acted as if he had just won the Grand slam event instead of winning a first round match. Monfils was understandably disappointed. His promising spring had turned into a lost summer of discontent and failure.

Yet in his post-match interview Monfils was gracious. He gave credit to his friend for making it through the match and fully took the blame for failing to maintain his concentration during the fifth set. He said he hoped Djokovic went far in the tournament and said he would be rooting for him.

When Djokovic was interviewed in his press conference he admitted with a sheepish grin that he cheated his friend and opponent; that he stalled without being injured in any way; that he called for the trainer when he had no need for the trainer; the he felt he needed to do anything possible to break the momentum of his friend because he felt it was more important to do anything possible, including cheat, to win and advance. When asked what he would stoop to such tactics against someone who rated him the closest of friends, Djokovic went from relieved but beaming winner to thoroughly embarrassed and busted cheat. His sudden change in demeanor was accompanied by a change in speech. He became brusque, angry with the press corps for challenging him and tearing him down after he freely admitted he cheated.

Djokovic ended the press conference as quickly as possible and scampered off the stage, looking not very injured at all.

When Gael Monfils was informed of his opponent’s tactics in a later one-on-one interview, the young man looked crestfallen. He intimated that in no way would he ever thought his “best friend” as he called Djokovic, would cheat him, would lower himself to do anything other than play a match with honor. At one point Monfils bowed his head, fighting back tears with the sudden understanding that in the world of tennis a player might well, in reality, have no friends in tennis at all.

That match marked the point where Novak Djokovic began his quick climb to #3 in the world. It also sped the fall of Gael Monfils to his present rank of #59. Today as Monfils plays commentators talk about that match, but no one seems to remember the manner in which Djokovic won. It is called a hard-fought match, a long match, and a match that everyone expected Monfils to win. They talk as if Monfils cannot win a five-set match and that on against Djokovic signaled his inability to gut out a victory. Monfils’ conditioning is questioned, his heart is questioned, his commitment to the game of tennis is questioned.

The commentators also fail to mention that many other players have complained about Djokovic’s gamesmanship, his cheating through extra-long breaks when losing, his penchant for bouncing the ball up to 24 times, then failing to pause to let his opponent know he is about to serve. Roger Federer, who never complains about opponents has levies the cheating charge at Djokovic. Both he and Rafael Nadal have commented about Djokovic and complained that his parents and their friends shout at his opponents during points to break their concentration just before they hit a shot when playing their son.

Many lesser players have done the same.

But Gael Monfils has defeated Jurgen Melzer, 4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 6-0, 6-2. In the final two sets Monfils makes only seven unforced errors, an incredibly clean way to play the final two sets of a long clay court match.

And despite the description of Monfils by the commentators, the young French player has a stellar 5-1 record in five set matches.

5-1.

Hopefully fate and fairness will have a way of catching up to Novak Djokovic.

Defcon
06-04-2008, 03:54 PM
I am sure the legions of Djoker fans will be along soon enough to call you a hater and the article a bunch of lies.

kalika
06-04-2008, 04:06 PM
I'll start. This is not an article. It's a blog. There's a huge difference and I hate that it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference nowadays. The writer is way over the topic, even for a blog.

zagor
06-04-2008, 04:11 PM
I am sure the legions of Djoker fans will be along soon enough to call you a hater and the article a bunch of lies.

I would hardly call 2 or 3 posters a "legion"(Djokovic has very few fans in this forum)but I remember this match and it is because of actions like this that I'll never be his fan(even though some people think I am).I can respect his talent but I cannot respect him as much as a person and a sportsman.There are too many incidents like this from Novak for this to be a coincidence

gj011
06-04-2008, 04:12 PM
OP is a hater and this article is a bunch of lies.

janipyt05
06-04-2008, 04:12 PM
These fans must have seen this match the only lies going on where coming from Djokovic.

oh dear me, i can take it... I watched this match in utter shock that the umpire could not see what djokovic was doing, i mean really does it take rocket science and this goes on, bouncing the ball and then even stopping to start again if the crowd get restless, then all those retirements. Should Djokovic get to number one he will have to curb this kind of thing. Yes tennis is a competition but he shouldn't treat tennis with such disregard.

So all who want to bash and call me names just for a second be realistic and fair do you think its ok for Djokovic to act such in this way when he clearly is so talented.

I would really like to debate this article so any thought would be great.

Wow you guys are quick

Defcon
06-04-2008, 04:20 PM
I'll start. This is not an article. It's a blog. There's a huge difference and I hate that it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference nowadays. The writer is way over the topic, even for a blog.

In what way is this blog/article inaccurate? Its quite amazing that Djokovic flat out admits to cheating.

Z-Man
06-04-2008, 04:24 PM
OP is a hater and this article is a bunch of lies.

Actually, I remember the match. Joker behaved poorly and later admitted it. I really liked him up until that point, and I wasn't sure about him for a while after that match, but the guy does have a great game and lots personality. He's good for tennis, and he deserves all of the success he's had. We all make mistakes.

hoodjem
06-04-2008, 04:30 PM
Let's title this "A Sad Tale of the Nature of the Game Today"
But the fifth and final set between the two told a sad tale of the nature of the game today.

But while Monfils acted the gentlemen, even the casual observer could see that Djokovic was taking advantage of the largesse his friend afforded him.

His promising spring had turned into a lost summer of discontent and failure.

At one point Monfils bowed his head, fighting back tears with the sudden understanding that in the world of tennis a player might well, in reality, have no friends in tennis at all.

Hopefully fate and fairness will have a way of catching up to Novak Djokovic.

Stop it, stop it. I can't take any more, you've got me in tears. Boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo.

Now let's go out and get Djokovic and string him up, like real tennis-men should.

P.S. Are you a journalism major?

Mansewerz
06-04-2008, 04:36 PM
Wow that article really saddens me. I like Djokovic, especially that talent that he's got. I've heard lots of things about the guy. A lot of my opinion of him comes from these boards because I can't watch every match of his and focus on his antics. I began to see, especially against Federer, how obnoxious his parents acted. So I thought fine, he's just got annoying parents. Now I see this. Actions like this make me hope even more for Federer and Nadal to put beatdowns on Djoker on the tennis court.

Honestly, this is the most controversial top player in recent years. Everything about him is questioned and truthfully, I have nothing against questioning this guy. His game is questionable. Many people that love him love him because he's the $h!t right now. He's hot stuff and they just want to root for the guy on top. I like Federer because of his talent, his class, the whole shebang, and I for one refuse to jump on the Djokovic bandwagon. Do I respect his game and enjoy watching him play? yes. But I do not hope that he gets to the number one with this type of sportsmanship.

janipyt05
06-04-2008, 04:42 PM
Actually, I remember the match. Joker behaved poorly and later admitted it. I really liked him up until that point, and I wasn't sure about him for a while after that match, but the guy does have a great game and lots personality. He's good for tennis, and he deserves all of the success he's had. We all make mistakes.

Only thing is Djokovic continues to do some strange things, French Open last year he retired losing 6-4, 6-4 and famously said in the intervew after the match that "he was on control of the match", then again at Wimbledon last year he retired in the semi finals then recently did so against Federer. :confused: Please don't say his young and will grow up because they are plenty of young players around not pulling the stunts Djokovic does.

gj011
06-04-2008, 05:12 PM
Only thing is Djokovic continues to do some strange things, French Open last year he retired losing 6-4, 6-4 and famously said in the intervew after the match that "he was on control of the match", then again at Wimbledon last year he retired in the semi finals then recently did so against Federer. :confused: Please don't say his young and will grow up because they are plenty of young players around not pulling the stunts Djokovic does.

As I said, you are a hater and you are telling a bunch of lies.

Djokovic retired in RG in 2006 not last year. Also you forgot to mention all the rain in Wimbledon last year and that he had to play third day in a row in SF after two over 4 and 5 hour matches in 4th round and QF. This was not a normal situation and retirement was quite justified. He was barely walking after two sets.

It is funny how these threads start suddenly popping up every time Novak makes SF or F on any big tournament, with stories more than two years old, that were already told many times here.

Mansewerz
06-04-2008, 05:31 PM
As I said, you are a hater and you are telling a bunch of lies.

Djokovic retired in RG in 2006 not last year. Also you forgot to mention all the rain in Wimbledon last year and that he had to play third day in a row in SF after two over 4 and 5 hour matches in 4th round and QF. This was not a normal situation and retirement was quite justified. He was barely walking after two sets.

It is funny how these threads start suddenly popping up every time Novak makes SF or F on any big tournament, with stories more than two years old, that were already told many times here.

Do you mind explaining his recent retirement in Monte Carlo?

:D

gj011
06-04-2008, 05:37 PM
Do you mind explaining his recent retirement in Monte Carlo?

:D

Sure, why not. He was sick and had a strep throat. He was on antibiotics between MC and Rome. This is really the truth. Anyway, he should have finished the match, but he was sick and far from OK.

My point was not to justify his every retirement, but to say that OP is malicious and is not telling the whole truth.

BkK_b0y14
06-04-2008, 05:59 PM
^^ Fanboy Alert!!!!!!!!

sillymonkey
06-04-2008, 06:06 PM
Why do you think it is so many people/fans don't get behind Djoko? He's got no soul.
As far as the commentators or media, they always go with whatever direction the wind is blowing. No guts.

gj011
06-04-2008, 06:07 PM
^^ Fanboy Alert!!!!!!!!

Sure why not. Is there anybody here who is not a funboy of one player or another? I haven't met anyone like that here so far.

Beside that, I am just telling the truth, contrary to OP.

justsomeecho
06-04-2008, 06:16 PM
OP is absolutely right. Djokovic needs to take things like a man and stop with this nonsense. People at the club level don't do this sort of thing.

oy vey
06-04-2008, 06:20 PM
The author is unknown but I suspect Monfils' uncle wrote it.

Tshooter
06-04-2008, 06:28 PM
I'm a Djokovic fan (obvious from my other posts) but I was at that match and there is no question that Djokovic did everything but crap on the umpire to win that match. The general feeling of those in the small crowd was that he cheated his way to the win a la JMac who similarly abused the rules back in his day.

But they were 18 I think. Djokovic has come a long way since then. Which is more then you can say about JMac who continued his abuse of the rules throughout his career.

5263
06-04-2008, 06:29 PM
If there was cheating, put the blame where it belongs, with the chair. If he had no reason to act, then it wasn't cheating. Maybe some questionable sportsmanship, but we have seen poor and great sportsmanship out of these players in every event.

FedForGOAT
06-04-2008, 06:37 PM
The author is unknown but I suspect Monfils' uncle wrote it.

It really doesn't make too much of a difference who wrote it. There are certain facts in it that can be verified or disproven. Did Djokovic actually admit to cheating? I'm sure a copy of that interview is available somewhere. Can someone please find it and post it here?

gj011
06-04-2008, 06:45 PM
Another proof this blog is bunch of BS. The Djokovic - Monfils match in US Open was in 2005. not in 2006.

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Djokovic%2C+Novak&player2=Monfils

Please check your facts, before posting something like this.

Tshooter
06-04-2008, 06:54 PM
5263, I think if you were there you would agree he bent the rules out of shape.

Anyway, here is one of my fav shots from the infamous match:

http://www.protennisphotos.com//?directimage=content/pro tennis photos/Other_/Gone-109.jpg

Yes, it was 2005. Court 10, round one. Djokovic went on to play Verdasco in round three on Armstrong court a a terrific 5 setter, which Djokovic lost.

Tshooter
06-04-2008, 06:55 PM
Sorry I messed up the link. It's shot 11 under gallery "other". :shock:

FedForGOAT
06-04-2008, 06:56 PM
Another proof this blog is bunch of BS. The Djokovic - Monfils match in US Open was in 2005. not in 2006.

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Djokovic%2C+Novak&player2=Monfils

Please check your facts, before posting something like this.



Who could have guessed three years ago, when he played his best friend at the time, Novak Djokovic, in the first round of the U.S. Open, that Monfils would lose that match after winning the fourth set, 6-0. And who would have guessed that that match would be the point of divergence between the two players.


It says "three years ago". 3 years before 2008 is clearly 2005.

gj011
06-04-2008, 07:00 PM
It says "three years ago". 3 years before 2008 is clearly 2005.

It is also talking about 2006 and this match. So it is completely messed up.

Defcon
06-04-2008, 07:16 PM
It doesn't matter about the year, the facts is his behavior is shameful. Its obvious he has a pattern of cheating and poor sportsmanship from the beginning. I find it hard to imagine how his fans defend such lack of character.

Mansewerz
06-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Sure, why not. He was sick and had a strep throat. He was on antibiotics between MC and Rome. This is really the truth. Anyway, he should have finished the match, but he was sick and far from OK.

My point was not to justify his every retirement, but to say that OP is malicious and is not telling the whole truth.

Do you got any sources saying he had strep? I've heard this before too, but didn't get a source.

FedForGOAT
06-04-2008, 08:17 PM
As I said, you are a hater and you are telling a bunch of lies.

Djokovic retired in RG in 2006 not last year. Also you forgot to mention all the rain in Wimbledon last year and that he had to play third day in a row in SF after two over 4 and 5 hour matches in 4th round and QF. This was not a normal situation and retirement was quite justified. He was barely walking after two sets.

It is funny how these threads start suddenly popping up every time Novak makes SF or F on any big tournament, with stories more than two years old, that were already told many times here.

Wimbledon last year was justified. The rest of his behavior was not.

Hidious
06-04-2008, 08:18 PM
Like someone mentioned, he was 18 at the time. He's maturing and i think he's going to become a real classy player in the future. He'll find his own way and tell his mom to shut up.

gj011
06-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Do you got any sources saying he had strep? I've heard this before too, but didn't get a source.

For example:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/08/sports/tennisatp8.php

Djokovic stopped taking medication for strep throat on Tuesday, and he appeared sluggish in the second set on the warmest day of the week so far.

"I knew it was going to be a tough match," Djokovic said. "He plays his best tennis on clay."

At the Monte Carlo Masters last month, Djokovic pulled out of his semifinal match against Federer, citing dizziness and a sore throat.

Djokovic improved to 4-0 in his career against the 26th-ranked Andreev.

The match lasted 2 hours, 42 minutes.

"I hope I can recuperate physically for tomorrow

http://www.sportsline.com/tennis/story/10812524

The Serb pulled out of his match against top-ranked Roger Federer after falling behind 6-3, 3-2 in the Monte Carlo Masters semifinals last weekend, complaining of dizziness and a sore throat.

Djokovic said tests afterward revealed he has strep throat.

janipyt05
06-04-2008, 11:06 PM
As I said, you are a hater and you are telling a bunch of lies.

Djokovic retired in RG in 2006 not last year. Also you forgot to mention all the rain in Wimbledon last year and that he had to play third day in a row in SF after two over 4 and 5 hour matches in 4th round and QF. This was not a normal situation and retirement was quite justified. He was barely walking after two sets.

It is funny how these threads start suddenly popping up every time Novak makes SF or F on any big tournament, with stories more than two years old, that were already told many times here.

Bo Ho his throat hurt, not his leg, his back nothing that physically would hinder his movement. Nadal played and lost in Rome did you see the blister, he never used that as an execuse, Aus Open Fed had an infection, did he use that as an execuse for losing no. So Novak need to grow up. He uses lame excuse to retire and his fans use lame execues for his retirements. Come with something a little stronger to refute these claims.

Sorry i got the years wrong my mistake, fact is he did do these things. If you watched this match you shouldn't be supporting these antics at all, that's a nasty way of winning any match. You would have plenty to say had the shoe been on the other foot.

Rafa Nadal suffered the same fate as Djokovic playing a match over a period of 3-4 days at Wimbledon, in fact many players suffered that fate. Rafa again suffered in French Open this year, you just get on with it.

You Novak supporters can't call this article made up because they happened, don't give me he is young and immature that doesn't give him the licence to be stupid, Novak is not the only young tennis player out there but seems to be happy to retire and make excuses for them.

Novak is a great player but that crap has to stop, i found i posted it, we debate we move in. There is nothing wrong in debating this issuse so suck it up and convince me that Novak is not a cheat. Just because i got the dates wrong does not negate the fact that he has done these things

It would be nice if Novak fans brought something constructive to say what Novak did was justified but instead you defend his cheating shame on you.

http://sportsonmymind.com/2008/05/31/gael-monfils-novak-djokovic-and-the-point-of-divergence/

There is the link for those that think i wrote this myself, i didn't and the date that article was written.

babbette
06-04-2008, 11:23 PM
I am speechless. I need to see that match. Wonder how his and Monfil's relationship has been since then.
I personally don't see why anyone would be a fan of Djokovic. He started out funny but now i can't stand him. He's too arrogant, not humble at all, just nasty. It would be a huge disapointment if he was number 1 to represent our already unpopular favorite game.
Oh well, let's see what happens. The 3 man race has been dramatic this year. Not to mention the rest of goings on in the ATP.

Lendl and Federer Fan
06-04-2008, 11:32 PM
I looked where to add this but can't find a place

Your thoughts on this people thank you

Gael Monfils, Novak Djokovic and the Point of Divergence

May 31, 2008

Gael Monfils is in the midst of his 3rd round match at this year’s French Open against Jurgen Melzer. The two are tied one set apiece with Melzer leading 3-2 in the third set.

Who would have guessed four year ago when Monfils won the first three junior Grand Slam events, Australian, French, and Wimbledon, that today in 2008, Monfils would be ranked behind countrymen #9 Richard Gasquet, #11 Jo-Wilfred Tsonga, #19 Paul-Henri Mathieu, #29 Gilles Simon, Michel Llorda (#41), Nicolas Mahut, #50 Fabrice Santoro, #55 Julian Benneteau, #56 Marc Giquel, and #57 Sebatien Grosjean.

Monfils is #59.

Who could have guessed three years ago, when he played his best friend at the time, Novak Djokovic, in the first round of the U.S. Open, that Monfils would lose that match after winning the fourth set, 6-0. And who would have guessed that that match would be the point of divergence between the two players.

Djokovic is #3.

Both players, age 21, are charismatic off the court and young talents on it. But while Monfils was marked for stardom, especially when he reached the round of 16 at the French Open just two years ago, Djokovic was a relatively unknown as a junior and began 2006 at #78 in the world. Monfils began 2006 at #30. Monfils reached #23 in the world after that French Open but took a precipitous fall and finished the season #46. Meantime Djokovic left the French #40, but ended his 2006 season all the way up to #16.

(Monfils lost the third set, 6-4, but is leading 2-0 early in the fourth set.)

What was the point of divergence between the two? After the French, Monfils dealt with some nagging injuries which forced him to miss much of the summer U.S. hardcourt season. But he came into the U.S. Open healthy and ready to make a splash in America. That first round U.S. Open match against Djokovic was expected to be tough, as matches against friends, especially when the players grew up together in the junior ranks always are. But Gael was slotted to win and move on.

But the fifth and final set between the two, which ended 7-5 for Djokovic, told a sad tale of the nature of the game today.

Djokovic began that final set by taking a “bathroom” break which most often in tennis circles means a player is losing and is hoping to break the momentum of his or her opponent. And on his way to finally winning, Djokovic would ask for the trainer or stall and reduce the match to a drawn out crawl a grand total of a dozen times. Six times he asked for the trainer. Six times on the court Djokovic limped around the court with “cramps” or some other alleged ailment.

Because of their friendship, Monfils was more than gracious toward his friend, allowing him to take more than the allotted time to gather himself so that Djokovic might have the opportunity to finish the match honorably in what ever fashion he chose.

But while Monfils acted the gentlemen, even the casual observer could see that Djokovic was taking advantage of the largesse his friend afforded him. Whenever the Serbian won points, he seemed miraculously energized. When he lost a point, he acted as if he was about to enter into the dangerous physical realm of a full body cramp. After his serve was broken in the fifth, which was repeatedly, he would call for the trainer on change-overs. Dutifully the employee of the men’s tour would trot out and massage Djokovic’s legs, or shoulder, or back, or all three. After some massages the Serb would stand, take a step, stop, and slump back into his chair, apparently needing yet another round of rubbing.

(Monfils won the fourth set, 6-0.)

As the final set wore on, the pauses became more pronounced, the massages longer, the stalling between points more often. The New York crowd sensed Djokovic was faking and began to jeer him. The average opponent would have complained to the chair umpire after the third or fourth play stoppage, after Djokovic held his hand in the air to stop Monfils from serving just before the Frenchman was about to toss the ball into the air.

At one point the crowd broke out into full booing after Djokovic won a drawn out point in which each player executed at least a dozen groundstrokes apiece and then, when he lost the following point, the stalling for time began anew. But Monfils implored the spectators to refrain from booing his brother in arms - and only at his behest did they stop.

When the final point was played, Djokovic acted as if he had just won the Grand slam event instead of winning a first round match. Monfils was understandably disappointed. His promising spring had turned into a lost summer of discontent and failure.

Yet in his post-match interview Monfils was gracious. He gave credit to his friend for making it through the match and fully took the blame for failing to maintain his concentration during the fifth set. He said he hoped Djokovic went far in the tournament and said he would be rooting for him.

When Djokovic was interviewed in his press conference he admitted with a sheepish grin that he cheated his friend and opponent; that he stalled without being injured in any way; that he called for the trainer when he had no need for the trainer; the he felt he needed to do anything possible to break the momentum of his friend because he felt it was more important to do anything possible, including cheat, to win and advance. When asked what he would stoop to such tactics against someone who rated him the closest of friends, Djokovic went from relieved but beaming winner to thoroughly embarrassed and busted cheat. His sudden change in demeanor was accompanied by a change in speech. He became brusque, angry with the press corps for challenging him and tearing him down after he freely admitted he cheated.

Djokovic ended the press conference as quickly as possible and scampered off the stage, looking not very injured at all.

When Gael Monfils was informed of his opponent’s tactics in a later one-on-one interview, the young man looked crestfallen. He intimated that in no way would he ever thought his “best friend” as he called Djokovic, would cheat him, would lower himself to do anything other than play a match with honor. At one point Monfils bowed his head, fighting back tears with the sudden understanding that in the world of tennis a player might well, in reality, have no friends in tennis at all.

That match marked the point where Novak Djokovic began his quick climb to #3 in the world. It also sped the fall of Gael Monfils to his present rank of #59. Today as Monfils plays commentators talk about that match, but no one seems to remember the manner in which Djokovic won. It is called a hard-fought match, a long match, and a match that everyone expected Monfils to win. They talk as if Monfils cannot win a five-set match and that on against Djokovic signaled his inability to gut out a victory. Monfils’ conditioning is questioned, his heart is questioned, his commitment to the game of tennis is questioned.

The commentators also fail to mention that many other players have complained about Djokovic’s gamesmanship, his cheating through extra-long breaks when losing, his penchant for bouncing the ball up to 24 times, then failing to pause to let his opponent know he is about to serve. Roger Federer, who never complains about opponents has levies the cheating charge at Djokovic. Both he and Rafael Nadal have commented about Djokovic and complained that his parents and their friends shout at his opponents during points to break their concentration just before they hit a shot when playing their son.

Many lesser players have done the same.

But Gael Monfils has defeated Jurgen Melzer, 4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 6-0, 6-2. In the final two sets Monfils makes only seven unforced errors, an incredibly clean way to play the final two sets of a long clay court match.

And despite the description of Monfils by the commentators, the young French player has a stellar 5-1 record in five set matches.

5-1.

Hopefully fate and fairness will have a way of catching up to Novak Djokovic.



From the match with Ferrer, Monfils clearly has the game to be at least a top 10 player if not more. Give it enough of time, life will reconverge. :)

crawl4
06-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Sure why not. Is there anybody here who is not a funboy of one player or another? I haven't met anyone like that here so far.

Beside that, I am just telling the truth, contrary to OP.

if you say your a fanboy then why do you say you are telling the truth?.. its just another opinion

gj011
06-04-2008, 11:49 PM
if you say your a fanboy then why do you say you are telling the truth?.. its just another opinion

I was not voicing opinion, I was just stating the facts, i.e. Wimbledon schedule, match years, strep throat, ...

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 12:12 AM
I am speechless. I need to see that match. Wonder how his and Monfil's relationship has been since then.
I personally don't see why anyone would be a fan of Djokovic. He started out funny but now i can't stand him. He's too arrogant, not humble at all, just nasty. It would be a huge disapointment if he was number 1 to represent our already unpopular favorite game.
Oh well, let's see what happens. The 3 man race has been dramatic this year. Not to mention the rest of goings on in the ATP.


I agree. I-Love-Myselfovic should be his name rather. He tries to act funny but when he has to face real adversity (i.e. an opponent that does not fall over just because he is playing the so-called Great One (Djokovic), he comes up with all kind of reasons to quit. He has got no heart, no guts, no balls. Where is Mats Wilander when you need him? Instead of Wilander making stupid comments like Roger (12 GS Titles) has no balls, Maybe he should tell us where he thinks Djoker's balls are and how they shrink when he plays Roger or Rafa on their game? Fact is: Joker is a Fair Weather Tennis Player. He cant handle adversity against guys he knows can beat him. If it starts to look unpromising for him against Roger or Rafa and he feels he cannot find his way back to win, he will do what people with no balls do: Just quit.

LOL Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Rafael nadal, Nike (Just Do it).

Djokovic, Adidas (Just quit)

Hardly good brand management. LOL.

Jokes aside, I am a Roger fan because he is such a admirable guy and gentleman, and I never had ANY time for Nadal, but when I saw what a utter gentleman Rafa is I began to like him a lot and admire him. I use to think Djokovic was a nice guy but after seeing all his unsporting antics and hearing all the stuff he talks about himself how he is so great etc etc and how his so-called greatness is affecting the tennis landscape. And his stupid parents who act like they are following their son around to Junior events (not the Pinnacle of the Sport the ATP and Grand Slams) and have got no class or manners or respect for other professionals. I would rather see Rafa at No. 1 because in my opinion he would be a better ambassador for Tennis.


gj011.. I see you are a Djoko-lover. One of the people who look past all his unsportsmanlike conduct and see only what they want to see. Seems the reason you blow so much smoke up Djoker's behind and can't see his faults, is because you've got your entire head plus that pipe of yours so far up there already that you are stuck. :)

gj011
06-05-2008, 12:25 AM
I agree. I-Love-Myselfovic should be his name rather. He tries to act funny but when he has to face real adversity (i.e. an opponent that does not fall over just because he is playing the so-called Great One (Djokovic), he comes up with all kind of reasons to quit. He has got no heart, no guts, no balls. Where is Mats Wilander when you need him? Instead of Wilander making stupid comments like Roger (12 GS Titles) has no balls, Maybe he should tell us where he thinks Djoker's balls are and how they shrink when he plays Roger or Rafa on their game? Fact is: Joker is a Fair Weather Tennis Player. He cant handle adversity against guys he knows can beat him. If it starts to look unpromising for him against Roger or Rafa and he feels he cannot find his way back to win, he will do what people with no balls do: Just quit.

LOL Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Nike (Just Do it).

Oh myDjokovic, Adidas (Just quit)

Hardly good brand management. LOL.

Jokes aside, I am a Roger fan because he is such a admirable guy and gentleman, and I never had ANY time for Nadal, but when I saw what a utter gentleman Rafa is I began to like him a lot and admire him. I use to think Djokovic was a nice guy but after seeing all his unsporting antics and hearing all the stuff he talks about himself how he is so great etc etc and how his so-called greatness is affecting the tennis landscape. And his stupid parents who act like they are following their son around to Junior events (not the Pinnacle of the Sport the ATP and Grand Slams) and have got no class or manners or respect for other professionals. I would rather see Rafa at No. 1 because in my opinion he would be a better ambassador for Tennis.


gj011.. I see you are a Djoko-lover. One of the people who look past all his unsportsmanlike conduct and see only what they want to see. Seems the reason you blow so much smoke up Djoker's behind and can't see his faults, is because you've got your entire head plus that pipe of yours so far up there already that you are stuck. :)


Oh my. So much hatred. It's not healthy for you.

Thor
06-05-2008, 12:35 AM
Sure why not. Is there anybody here who is not a funboy of one player or another? I haven't met anyone like that here so far.

Beside that, I am just telling the truth, contrary to OP.

If you like being Djovovic's "funboy" thats your business - dont pull other posters into it...

gj011
06-05-2008, 12:43 AM
If you like being Djovovic's "funboy" thats your business - dont pull other posters into it...

No, I was called funboy for just stating the truth. If that is the case I am fine with it.

Most people here go much further for their favorite players. It looks like it is only a problem when that player name is not Federer or Nadal.

Tarsier
06-05-2008, 12:54 AM
No, I was called funboy for just stating the truth. If that is the case I am fine with it.

Most people here go much further for their favorite players. It looks like it is only a problem when that player name is not Federer or Nadal.

Actually you were called a "fanboy". "Funboy" is what you admitted to being yourself. :):)

gj011
06-05-2008, 01:03 AM
Actually you were called a "fanboy". "Funboy" is what you admitted to being yourself. :):)

Lol that is a bad spelling mistake. Oh well. I will never learn. I gave up long time ago on my perfect English.

Leublu tennis
06-05-2008, 01:13 AM
Actually, I remember the match. Joker behaved poorly and later admitted it. I really liked him up until that point, and I wasn't sure about him for a while after that match, but the guy does have a great game and lots personality. He's good for tennis, and he deserves all of the success he's had. We all make mistakes.
You liked him until he admitted his mistake? Sounds backwards to me.

Leublu tennis
06-05-2008, 01:21 AM
I looked where to add this but can't find a place

Your thoughts on this people thank you

Gael Monfils, Novak Djokovic and the Point of Divergence

May 31, 2008

Gael Monfils is in the midst of his 3rd round match at this year’s French Open against Jurgen Melzer. The two are tied one set apiece with Melzer leading 3-2 in the third set.

Who would have guessed four year ago when Monfils won the first three junior Grand Slam events, Australian, French, and Wimbledon, that today in 2008, Monfils would be ranked behind countrymen #9 Richard Gasquet, #11 Jo-Wilfred Tsonga, #19 Paul-Henri Mathieu, #29 Gilles Simon, Michel Llorda (#41), Nicolas Mahut, #50 Fabrice Santoro, #55 Julian Benneteau, #56 Marc Giquel, and #57 Sebatien Grosjean.

Monfils is #59.

Who could have guessed three years ago, when he played his best friend at the time, Novak Djokovic, in the first round of the U.S. Open, that Monfils would lose that match after winning the fourth set, 6-0. And who would have guessed that that match would be the point of divergence between the two players.

Djokovic is #3.

Both players, age 21, are charismatic off the court and young talents on it. But while Monfils was marked for stardom, especially when he reached the round of 16 at the French Open just two years ago, Djokovic was a relatively unknown as a junior and began 2006 at #78 in the world. Monfils began 2006 at #30. Monfils reached #23 in the world after that French Open but took a precipitous fall and finished the season #46. Meantime Djokovic left the French #40, but ended his 2006 season all the way up to #16.

(Monfils lost the third set, 6-4, but is leading 2-0 early in the fourth set.)

What was the point of divergence between the two? After the French, Monfils dealt with some nagging injuries which forced him to miss much of the summer U.S. hardcourt season. But he came into the U.S. Open healthy and ready to make a splash in America. That first round U.S. Open match against Djokovic was expected to be tough, as matches against friends, especially when the players grew up together in the junior ranks always are. But Gael was slotted to win and move on.

But the fifth and final set between the two, which ended 7-5 for Djokovic, told a sad tale of the nature of the game today.

Djokovic began that final set by taking a “bathroom” break which most often in tennis circles means a player is losing and is hoping to break the momentum of his or her opponent. And on his way to finally winning, Djokovic would ask for the trainer or stall and reduce the match to a drawn out crawl a grand total of a dozen times. Six times he asked for the trainer. Six times on the court Djokovic limped around the court with “cramps” or some other alleged ailment.

Because of their friendship, Monfils was more than gracious toward his friend, allowing him to take more than the allotted time to gather himself so that Djokovic might have the opportunity to finish the match honorably in what ever fashion he chose.

But while Monfils acted the gentlemen, even the casual observer could see that Djokovic was taking advantage of the largesse his friend afforded him. Whenever the Serbian won points, he seemed miraculously energized. When he lost a point, he acted as if he was about to enter into the dangerous physical realm of a full body cramp. After his serve was broken in the fifth, which was repeatedly, he would call for the trainer on change-overs. Dutifully the employee of the men’s tour would trot out and massage Djokovic’s legs, or shoulder, or back, or all three. After some massages the Serb would stand, take a step, stop, and slump back into his chair, apparently needing yet another round of rubbing.

(Monfils won the fourth set, 6-0.)

As the final set wore on, the pauses became more pronounced, the massages longer, the stalling between points more often. The New York crowd sensed Djokovic was faking and began to jeer him. The average opponent would have complained to the chair umpire after the third or fourth play stoppage, after Djokovic held his hand in the air to stop Monfils from serving just before the Frenchman was about to toss the ball into the air.

At one point the crowd broke out into full booing after Djokovic won a drawn out point in which each player executed at least a dozen groundstrokes apiece and then, when he lost the following point, the stalling for time began anew. But Monfils implored the spectators to refrain from booing his brother in arms - and only at his behest did they stop.

When the final point was played, Djokovic acted as if he had just won the Grand slam event instead of winning a first round match. Monfils was understandably disappointed. His promising spring had turned into a lost summer of discontent and failure.

Yet in his post-match interview Monfils was gracious. He gave credit to his friend for making it through the match and fully took the blame for failing to maintain his concentration during the fifth set. He said he hoped Djokovic went far in the tournament and said he would be rooting for him.

When Djokovic was interviewed in his press conference he admitted with a sheepish grin that he cheated his friend and opponent; that he stalled without being injured in any way; that he called for the trainer when he had no need for the trainer; the he felt he needed to do anything possible to break the momentum of his friend because he felt it was more important to do anything possible, including cheat, to win and advance. When asked what he would stoop to such tactics against someone who rated him the closest of friends, Djokovic went from relieved but beaming winner to thoroughly embarrassed and busted cheat. His sudden change in demeanor was accompanied by a change in speech. He became brusque, angry with the press corps for challenging him and tearing him down after he freely admitted he cheated.

Djokovic ended the press conference as quickly as possible and scampered off the stage, looking not very injured at all.

When Gael Monfils was informed of his opponent’s tactics in a later one-on-one interview, the young man looked crestfallen. He intimated that in no way would he ever thought his “best friend” as he called Djokovic, would cheat him, would lower himself to do anything other than play a match with honor. At one point Monfils bowed his head, fighting back tears with the sudden understanding that in the world of tennis a player might well, in reality, have no friends in tennis at all.

That match marked the point where Novak Djokovic began his quick climb to #3 in the world. It also sped the fall of Gael Monfils to his present rank of #59. Today as Monfils plays commentators talk about that match, but no one seems to remember the manner in which Djokovic won. It is called a hard-fought match, a long match, and a match that everyone expected Monfils to win. They talk as if Monfils cannot win a five-set match and that on against Djokovic signaled his inability to gut out a victory. Monfils’ conditioning is questioned, his heart is questioned, his commitment to the game of tennis is questioned.

The commentators also fail to mention that many other players have complained about Djokovic’s gamesmanship, his cheating through extra-long breaks when losing, his penchant for bouncing the ball up to 24 times, then failing to pause to let his opponent know he is about to serve. Roger Federer, who never complains about opponents has levies the cheating charge at Djokovic. Both he and Rafael Nadal have commented about Djokovic and complained that his parents and their friends shout at his opponents during points to break their concentration just before they hit a shot when playing their son.

Many lesser players have done the same.

But Gael Monfils has defeated Jurgen Melzer, 4-6, 7-5, 4-6, 6-0, 6-2. In the final two sets Monfils makes only seven unforced errors, an incredibly clean way to play the final two sets of a long clay court match.

And despite the description of Monfils by the commentators, the young French player has a stellar 5-1 record in five set matches.

5-1.

Hopefully fate and fairness will have a way of catching up to Novak Djokovic.
You don't know where to stick this? Well, you could file it under "I hate Djokovic, I hate his parents, I hate his dog, I hate....".

Interesting piece, somewhat typical for a high school paper. Starts on a high note and quickly falls into irrational drivel. Grow up.

moonbat
06-05-2008, 01:26 AM
I read clips from the NY Times on the match, and I did not get the impression that Djokovic admitted that he cheated, only that he knew he couldn't get through the match physically without continuing to request treatment, which is iffy, but legal if allowed by the umpire. I also think he has come a long way since 2005, and is continuing to mature, though he still has some cringeworthy moments on the court. I must say that some of you just really hate him with a pulsating purple passion. It's as if Novak broke into your mom's house, stole your Second Life girlfriend and ate all your Captain Crunch. Lighten up a little! ;)

moonbat
06-05-2008, 01:32 AM
A Monfils/Djokovic final would be interesting, to say the least.

gj011
06-05-2008, 01:58 AM
The NY Times article about this match and the whole day at US Open. It was extremly humid and hot. Llodra colapsed and Murray vomitted the same day. Djokovic had severe breathing problems and cramping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/sports/tennis/31injury.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
The Heat Proves to Be a Difficult Opponent for Players

The OP article is just a hateful spin.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 02:18 AM
On the original page where this article/post/blog was taken from, there is a post which is interesting:

http://sportsonmymind.com/2008/05/31/gael-monfils-novak-djokovic-and-the-point-of-divergence/

--
# dwil on June 3rd, 2008 9:15 pm

krisps-
This has nothing to do with “villains” and everything to do with illustrating how one match can send careers in two different directions. And in the case of Djokovic and Monfils and the match that, to this point, has marked the divergence in their paths, the facts of the match are the facts of the match - period.

Hewitt was and is correctly “demonized” in America for his incident with James Blake and the black line judge at the U.S. Open. In Australia, he is hated because he’s not the quintessential “good guy” Australian - which I find ridiculous.

The criticisms of Roddick, from my viewpoint, deal with his limited game rather than anything else.

So, your opinion is yours and I certainly don’t care about how you or anyone else feels about “Nole.” He did what he did to Monfils, that cannot be disputed. And what he continues to do is well-known on the tour. That players complain about his calling trainers for no reason during tight matches - like so many other players - and for bouncing the ball 18 to 20-something times and then serving without pausing first, which is a “quick-serve” and illegal can also not be disputed.

EVERYONE-
Tennis is a game where you are out there alone for everyone to see - in singles - and who and what you are as a person will ultimately be revealed, always. I do not appreciate players who bend the rules or break them.

Just look at the difference in perception by players and writers alike between Djokovic versus Federer and Jankovic versus Ana Ivanovic. Two are known to do anything including bend rules or cheat their opponents to win (the win at all costs syndrome), while Federer and Ivanovic are known as the fairest players on their respective tours.

These perceptions don’t arise out of thin air.

--

This is true.

These perceptions don’t arise out of thin air.

gj011
06-05-2008, 02:30 AM
Dwil is a hater that wrote the article. There are much better comments there to quote.

veroniquem
06-05-2008, 02:44 AM
I read clips from the NY Times on the match, and I did not get the impression that Djokovic admitted that he cheated, only that he knew he couldn't get through the match physically without continuing to request treatment, which is iffy, but legal if allowed by the umpire. I also think he has come a long way since 2005, and is continuing to mature, though he still has some cringeworthy moments on the court. I must say that some of you just really hate him with a pulsating purple passion. It's as if Novak broke into your mom's house, stole your Second Life girlfriend and ate all your Captain Crunch. Lighten up a little! ;)
If that actually happened, it's truly appaling, I don't care how old he was, it's a despicable mentality. On the other hand, I really don't think a player's career can be sabotaged by one match. To claim that Monfils's career took a nose dive because of some antics by Djoko is nothing short of ridiculous.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 03:07 AM
Oh my. So much hatred. Its not healthy for you.


Its not hatred. Its just opinion, based on perception, based on what a player does and says and how he conducts himself on and off the court. I love tennis and love to see great players go up against each other to the end, not wimp out when things don't go exactly to their liking.

Many many players have fought through far FAR more than a "sore throat" and won. Its not because of the supposed sore throat that he quit against Federer in Monte Carlo.. its because he knew he wasn't going to win and because of all his (and his parent's) comments he would have looked a bit stupid losing outright to Roger (in straights to add insult), and he knew this, too. So instead of sticking out the next 3 or 4 games, the next best thing: make an excuse to just quit. Same thing against Nadal in Roland Garros 2006. Ok, so lets give him the benefit of the doubt for Wimbledon 2007. Point is he makes a habit of it.

And why did the gentleman Federer not just retire in Australia this year when he was getting a beating and just say he couldn't carry on cause of his mono? Because he was man enough and gentleman enough to get beat like a man, if he was going to get beat.

Personally, I love to see the game played by gentlemen like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, great players with exceptional talent but also down to earth. My preference is not for brash, arrogant, and unsporting players with a "win-at-all costs or quit" attitude. Thats just my preference. So shoot me. :twisted:

I'd like Roger and Rafa to get to the Roland Garros final because you know what, even though Roger *might* lose again, at least I know it will be a battle between two guys with loads of heart/guts who will never throw in the towel until the very last ball flies past them. I'm sure lots of people feel the same as me.

gj011
06-05-2008, 03:24 AM
It is a hatred. And I tell you why.

You can't have it both ways. You are complaining that he didn't retire in USOpen against Monfils, and at the same time complaining that he retired in MC.
In Monfils match he obviously had a lot of health issues and he struggled to finish the match.

And also Federer is far from gentleman you are making him to be. He is a sore loser, he is arrogant, he also uses medical timeouts to disrupt the opponent (Tipsarevic in AO to clip his toenails for example), ...
Nadal does as it well (Hamburg final).

So please spare me of your righteousness and double standards.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 03:37 AM
It is a hatred. And I tell you why.

You can't have it both ways. You are complaining that he didn't retire in USOpen against Monfils, and at the same time complaining that he retired in MC.
In Monfils match he obviously had a lot of health issues and he struggled to finish the match.

And also Federer is far from gentleman you are making him to be. He is a sore loser, he also uses medical timeouts to disrupt the opponent (Tipsarevic in AO to clip his toenails for example), he is arrogant, ...
Nadal does as it well (Hamburg final).

So spare me of your righteousness and double standards.


In my opinion Nadal has toned down this stuff a LOT in recent times. This was one of the reasons I never use to like watching his matches. I still don't like to see that stuff from Nadal. But he is in my opinion a far more humble guy than Novak when it comes to his comments about himself. And in my opinion he has got 10x the guts/balls Novak has got as a competitor.

Also, Federer's use of medical timeouts are so rare compared to both Djokovic AND Nadal, that they pale into insignificance.

Djokovic has got to be the leader in both medical timeouts AND retirements amongst the top ten players. One minute he is like the duracell bunny the next minute he is like the dying swan. Its pathetic.

gj011
06-05-2008, 03:40 AM
In my opinion Nadal has toned down this stuff a LOT in recent times. This was one of the reasons I never use to like watching his matches. I still don't like to see that stuff from Nadal. But he is in my opinion a far more humble guy than Novak when it comes to his comments about himself. And in my opinion he has got 10x the guts/balls Novak has got as a competitor.

Also, Federer's use of medical timeouts are so rare compared to both Djokovic AND Nadal, that they pale into insignificance.

Djokovic has got to be the leader in both medical timeouts AND retirements amongst the top ten players. One minute he is like the the duracell bunny the next minute he is like the dying swan. Its pathetic.

As I said. So much hatred is not good for you.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 03:41 AM
And if Federer is such a sore loser and is so arrogant how come he keeps being chosen for the sportsmanship awards and fan favourite awards every year?

Is it because all his fellow players and all the tennis fans around the world are blind and stupid as well?

zagor
06-05-2008, 03:43 AM
And also Federer is far from gentleman you are making him to be. He is a sore loser, he is arrogant, he also uses medical timeouts to disrupt the opponent .

He's a sore loser at times as almost every athlete with his desire to win is(I guess Djokovic wasn't a sore loser after he lost to Fed in Monte Carlo? and Nadal can be also sore loser no matter that his fans think he's perfect like when he gave excuses after he lost to Gonzo at AO when Gonzo was on fire and would have beaten Nadal on hardcourts no matter what).

He can be arrogant at times but he's not close in that department to Novak especially when he was breaking through and won his first slam and always respect tennis legends like Laver,Borg and Sampras unlike Novak and his parents who don't have a shred of respect for Federer who is already an all-time great(nothing wrong with that,some athletes are like that but he is different there from Federer).

Medical timeouts to disrupt an opponent? Sorry but Djokovic is a master in that department,I think by the age of 21 he already used more timeouts then Federer did in his entire career.Oh,and Federer never retired from a match.

forzainter
06-05-2008, 04:00 AM
Only thing is Djokovic continues to do some strange things, French Open last year he retired losing 6-4, 6-4 and famously said in the intervew after the match that "he was on control of the match"

Also, look who he was playing in that match, Nadal wasn't it?

gj011
06-05-2008, 04:13 AM
Also, look who he was playing in that match, Nadal wasn't it?

As I said, janipyt05 is lying. That was two years ago. They played a lot of matches after that. So get your facts strait.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 04:18 AM
And if Federer is such a sore loser and is so arrogant how come he keeps being chosen for the sportsmanship awards and fan favourite awards every year?

Is it because all his fellow players and all the tennis fans around the world are blind and stupid as well?


gj011 Are you going to answer this? Do you have a theory about why this arrogant sore loser (according to you) keeps snapping up these awards for sportsmanship and popularity?

Puma
06-05-2008, 04:21 AM
Go Rafa......................

daddy
06-05-2008, 04:32 AM
gj011 Are you going to answer this? Do you have a theory about why this arrogant sore loser (according to you) keeps snapping up these awards for sportsmanship and popularity?

It is fair to say that Federer lost so few matches that he barely had a chance to show he can lose with dignity. Once you are on the top and on your own you settle down.

Anyways that match was a classic example of poor behaviour and unsportsman like conduct on court from Djokovic. And make no mistake that costs him even today. Not only he lost respect amongst ATP players which he is trying to rebuild for years and only moderatly succeded in doing that by playing quality tennis ( as even Federer made a few statements on that issue ) but lost many fans and as this thread shows - that is not fogotten. He has to deal with it for the remainder of his career. He is under the microscope and because of that match, evey retirement on injury he has - is questioned or doubted.

Nowdays people do not give him credit for having a stellar 5 set record himself. They don't give him the edge for mental toughness. They just bash him and it all started deservably back then. So make no mistake, everybody has to pay for their actions.

forzainter
06-05-2008, 04:41 AM
As I said, janipyt05 is lying. That was two years ago. They played a lot of matches after that. So get your facts strait.

I do have my facts straight, and my spelling for that matter, i know that match was 2 years ago, I watched it

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 04:52 AM
Well Djokovic has rather a nice life if all he has to worry about are tennis fans bashing him on tennis forums for his sportsmanship (or lack of it) or his faking injury or his motor-mouth or his parents's lack of class. The guy is still a multi-millionaire living a charmed life. And deservedly so. Because he is a very talented and successful tennis player, which he could not be without lots of hard work to get there. But this doesn't mean he is everyone's cup of tea, and talent and good play alone doesn't earn the respect or popularity that players like Sampras or Federer have got. Or even Nadal. At the end of the day you reap what you sow in terms of popularity and respect.

daddy
06-05-2008, 04:59 AM
Well Djokovic has rather a nice life if all he has to worry about are tennis fans bashing him on tennis forums for his sportsmanship (or lack of it) or his faking injury or his motor-mouth or his parents's lack of class. The guy is still a multi-millionaire living a charmed life. And deservedly so. Because he is a very talented and successful tennis player, which he could not be without lots of hard work to get there. But this doesn't mean he is everyone's cup of tea, and talent and good play alone doesn't earn the respect or popularity that players like Sampras or Federer have got. Or even Nadal. At the end of the day you reap what you sow in terms of popularity and respect.

Exactly. Let him play and earn respect ( or not ) if he is able to.

zagor
06-05-2008, 05:03 AM
Maybe not exactly on topic but here's what Fed said about his relationship with Novak at the moment in his interview yesterday after the Gonzo match:"As for our relationship? Nice. We talk to each other. I'm happy he is here for the future of tennis. At the moment, we ‑‑ everything's okay."

jstr
06-05-2008, 05:56 AM
Modern tennis is pretty polite .. Did you ever watch a Macenroe match? Talk about stalling !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYLb4gzoRH4

gj011
06-05-2008, 07:20 AM
I do have my facts straight, and my spelling for that matter, i know that match was 2 years ago, I watched it

I already said once on this thread. I gave up on my perfect English spelling long time ago. It is hopeless. However this is not a spelling bee contest, and pulling that on ESL people is sign you have no real arguments.

gj011
06-05-2008, 07:23 AM
Maybe not exactly on topic but here's what Fed said about his relationship with Novak at the moment in his interview yesterday after the Gonzo match:"As for our relationship? Nice. We talk to each other. I'm happy he is here for the future of tennis. At the moment, we ‑‑ everything's okay."

I read that. Very nice comment indeed. How could Federer say something like that about a cheater?

It shows that fAnboys here are making a big deals out of nothing. This thread is a perfect example.

daddy
06-05-2008, 07:32 AM
I read that. Very nice comment indeed. How could Federer say something like that about a cheater?

Hard core tennis fans ( mostly in their teens ) on this board are not close to the general population. As from what Ive seen, Djokovic has the media attention ( Jay Leno show for example, CNN Sports News marks his 21st birthday which was odd ) fanclubs and many fans around the world including many ex-pro player backing him up ( Stich, Muster, Ivanisevic, Sampras only last month, McEnroe, Becker, Courier and a whole lot of others before).

It is expected that people who play/love tennis react harder to their heroes getting more competition. Imagine when you show up with trash talk the way Djokovic did, let alone the injury timeouts and everything ? Im sure this will be settled in the future but right now I expect these threads to pop up after his every good result or slam win, until he establishes himself completely ( another couple of slams would do .. ). Even then some people will react as they do for Nadal right now.

Blue Drop
06-05-2008, 07:38 AM
Sure why not. Is there anybody here who is not a funboy of one player or another? I haven't met anyone like that here so far.

Beside that, I am just telling the truth, contrary to OP.

The difference is that the rest of us like players of other nationalities. We don't just jump up and down defending a player who has exhibited some of the worst behavior on tour just because he's from Serbia.

The question is, do you support any player from another country? Any player at all? There's not much evidence of it.

justsomeecho
06-05-2008, 07:38 AM
Doesn't matter about his age, look at Nadal and Federer.
Those guys started playing pro tournaments before that age, and I've never heard a complaint about their on-court behavior (perhaps barring Nadal's "pant fixing").

daddy
06-05-2008, 07:48 AM
Doesn't matter about his age, look at Nadal and Federer.Those guys started playing pro tournaments before that age, and I've never heard a complaint about their on-court behavior (perhaps barring Nadal's "pant fixing").


I suppose you are too young or just did not watch these guys enough. Federer made a series of complaints for example and was very loud during the 2006 clay court season. Ys he complained about coaching during matches and about time-consuming habits of Rafael Nadal, non other. We did not hear it from then on and aparently they are okay now. As for Federer, he did not have such accusations like gamesmenship and similar. But he had a fair share of on court blitz actions so if you buy some DVD's from 2000/2001 ( I prefer Basel and his yearly meltdown to Tim Henman who absolutely owned him back then ) you will learn to swear in five different languages as well as how to lose a match by being a headcase, how to break a racket in 5 ways and with no effort, and on top of this how to cry during a match out of frustration.

janipyt05
06-05-2008, 08:02 AM
You don't know where to stick this? Well, you could file it under "I hate Djokovic, I hate his parents, I hate his dog, I hate....".

Interesting piece, somewhat typical for a high school paper. Starts on a high note and quickly falls into irrational drivel. Grow up.

Please save your response when you can properly defend Djokovic instead of cussing me out, why the hell would i ahte Djokovic when i don't know him personally, this is just an article to debate about, many players get called into question on this site, what is wrong with you people and constructive critisim you can't actually stick to a subject instead bring personally... i think you need to do the growing up and try to stick to the subject at hand it may be hard but do try.

Whoever wrote this is grown enough to write this paper, stick to the sujbect and show Djokovic for what he really is. If you can't take i suggest you keep quiet

gj011
06-05-2008, 08:11 AM
The difference is that the rest of us like players of other nationalities. We don't just jump up and down defending a player who has exhibited some of the worst behavior on tour just because he's from Serbia.

The question is, do you support any player from another country? Any player at all? There's not much evidence of it.

What is wrong with cheering for player from your country? Spaniards here all cheer for Nadal, Ferrer, Moya, ... Americans support Roddick although he is a much bigger jerk than Djokovic will ever be. Also other players. Just go back to match threads and look at all posts "Odesnik to kill Djokovic" "Ginepri will destroy Gonzalez", ...

Federer is loved by many because he is the best. It is as simple as that.

Also I don't follow tennis from last year and had players I cheered for when there were none from Serbia.

gj011
06-05-2008, 08:23 AM
Please save your response when you can properly defend Djokovic instead of cussing me out, why the hell would i ahte Djokovic when i don't know him personally, this is just an article to debate about, many players get called into question on this site, what is wrong with you people and constructive critisim you can't actually stick to a subject instead bring personally... i think you need to do the growing up and try to stick to the subject at hand it may be hard but do try.

Whoever wrote this is grown enough to write this paper, stick to the sujbect and show Djokovic for what he really is. If you can't take i suggest you keep quiet

The problem is that this is not a constructive criticism, this is blind hatred. The article is hate mongering, twistes the truth (compare it with NY Times article, that is constructive criticism), confuses the facts, ...

And the sad thing is that you are no different.

zagor
06-05-2008, 10:37 AM
Federer is loved by many because he is the best. It is as simple as that.

You shouldn't generalize that much.Sure some are his fans because he wins everything but I was his big fan before he started to dominate and only had one title to his name,that's why I will stay his fan even if he doesn't win slams anymore.

zagor
06-05-2008, 10:41 AM
I suppose you are too young or just did not watch these guys enough. Federer made a series of complaints for example and was very loud during the 2006 clay court season. Ys he complained about coaching during matches and about time-consuming habits of Rafael Nadal, non other. We did not hear it from then on and aparently they are okay now. As for Federer, he did not have such accusations like gamesmenship and similar. But he had a fair share of on court blitz actions so if you buy some DVD's from 2000/2001 ( I prefer Basel and his yearly meltdown to Tim Henman who absolutely owned him back then ) you will learn to swear in five different languages as well as how to lose a match by being a headcase, how to break a racket in 5 ways and with no effort, and on top of this how to cry during a match out of frustration.

Yeah,he had some meltdowns against Kafelnikov as well.He was a very talented,emotional racquet breaking guy with a beautiful all-court game.A couple of players owned him back then besides Henman like Nalbandian and Hewitt(even Agassi a little)but he turned records against those players around which shows his mental strength and fight.

janipyt05
06-05-2008, 10:44 AM
response to gj011
You seriously are blind to the fact that not only did djokovic do this he continues to behave in this way today. I wonder what you would say had the shoe been on the other foot. I don't hate Djokovic i dislike his antics there is a diffrence. In fact i don't make time to hate people i don't know. I comment on what i see and what i read nothing more and nothing less. You have to be confused if you think Djokovic antics are fair.

You then must not like fair matches and would rather a player cheats to get to the top, saddly that will only get you so far.

I am a huge tennis fan and i watch many players and call things as i see them even if i am a fan of them, my friend wrong is wrong don't try cover it up by saying i hate, just deal with facts at hand, because you can't refute these claims you come with the riff raf that does nothing to make people see djokovic in another light, lets not get it twisted, Djokovic did pull thes stunts at the US Open, did retire at the french open, did pull out at wimbledon semi match, and did so against Fed waist time bouncing the ball until the crowd start getting involved.

How you can justify that by just saying i hate and i'm lying shows me, you really don't have a point, so just rest up and let people have facts and opinions good or bad keep this thread moving.

ciao

gj011
06-05-2008, 11:15 AM
You then must not like fair matches and would rather a player cheats to get to the top, saddly that will only get you so far.

You are just so full of it. Your blind hate is stopping you from hearing different opinions and arguments.

You are having double standards. Same actions from different players you judge differently.

If Novak is sick and retires it is cheating, if he is sick and does not retire, but asks for help, it is also a cheating. If Federer clips his toenails it is fine. Give me a brake.

This whole thread, display of hate from you and pathetic attempts to cover it up are what is sad here.

No need to waste more time here.

Nole_Destroyer
06-05-2008, 11:35 AM
Well Djokovic has rather a nice life if all he has to worry about are tennis fans bashing him on tennis forums for his sportsmanship (or lack of it) or his faking injury or his motor-mouth or his parents's lack of class. The guy is still a multi-millionaire living a charmed life. And deservedly so. Because he is a very talented and successful tennis player, which he could not be without lots of hard work to get there. But this doesn't mean he is everyone's cup of tea, and talent and good play alone doesn't earn the respect or popularity that players like Sampras or Federer have got. Or even Nadal. At the end of the day you reap what you sow in terms of popularity and respect.

Son, I will tell you something Djokovic is more popular then Nadal and Federee together.It is fact, not my opinion.

oy vey
06-05-2008, 11:35 AM
I prefer Basel and his yearly meltdown to Tim Henman who absolutely owned him back then )


Here’s an interesting video. You can see Federer crying like a baby after a loss to Henman. He was 20. This shows Federer as a wuss, crybaby, immature and mentally unstable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8QDlcFHA4o

zagor
06-05-2008, 11:40 AM
This shows Federer as a wuss, crybaby, immature and mentally unstable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8QDlcFHA4o

He lost in a final of a hometown tournament(to an experienced S & V)so I suppose it is understandable(atleast it is IMO).Given the fact that he won 12 slams and dominated the tour for the last 4 years so I personally wouldn't use those words to describe Federer.

Blue Drop
06-05-2008, 11:43 AM
Son, I will tell you something Djokovic is more popular then Nadal and Federee together.It is fact, not my opinion.

Ha, good one.

Sure, a few people like *****ovic. They tend to be from Serbia or have names like "Nole_Forever," or whatever. They get themselves worked into an absolute fit trying to defend their hero. But it doesn't change the fact that many, many people dislike the guy and his (and his family's) tactics.

veroniquem
06-05-2008, 11:50 AM
Here’s an interesting video. You can see Federer crying like a baby after a loss to Henman. He was 20. This shows Federer as a wuss, crybaby, immature and mentally unstable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8QDlcFHA4o
There's nothing immature about expressing emotions. I liked him much better then than now when he hardly ever expresses anything anymore and walks around with that constant haughty air about him. Tougher but less humane. I'll take the old Fed back any time.

veroniquem
06-05-2008, 11:59 AM
All on this forum except few people are bunch of *******s.Two years ago Djokovic was only the kid,without stamina,he couldn't play five sets,and now some ****** wrote an aricle about his gamenship,I hope I meet someday that "man".All of this article is bunch of lies.I watched that match live,and there wasn't any cheating from Djokovic,he was obviously young and weak and he needed those timeouts.It was all clear to crowd, and I don't know what this ****** is writing about.And all of that cheating Djokovic confessed, I will not say
anything because this doesn't deserve any comment.
Young and weak :shock:... Stop! I feel the tears welling in my eyes...

Nole_Destroyer
06-05-2008, 12:07 PM
And what about this article
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/sp...in&oref=slogin

forzainter
06-05-2008, 12:08 PM
Who told you that,******?

I think by generally scanning the forum you can see that most people prefer Nadal or federer to djokovic

Nole_Destroyer
06-05-2008, 12:10 PM
I think by generally scanning the forum you can see that most people prefer Nadal or federer to djokovic
Where is that?

NamRanger
06-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Here’s an interesting video. You can see Federer crying like a baby after a loss to Henman. He was 20. This shows Federer as a wuss, crybaby, immature and mentally unstable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8QDlcFHA4o



You're right, he cried because he lost his home town tournament in front of his own country. He was mentally unstable. True. But wait, did he abuse injury timeouts, retire, or purposely appear to be injured to fool his opponent, and take a billion bounces to serve? No, he didn't.



And Daddy, Federer has shown times he can be teed off after a loss, you are right. But never once has he been blatantly arrogant as Djokovic, ever. I don't think I've ever seen Federer say "I was completely in control of the match" When he was down a set and 2 breaks, and retires.



Federer gives credit where credit is due. He gave Safin credit when Safin beat him at the AO 2005. He gave Nalbandian credit at the TMC 2005 even though he literally was playing with no movement whatsoever. He gives credit to Nadal, and said that he felt lucky to win Wimbledon in 2007. He is constantly awarded by the press and his own fellow players, not just because of press interviews or public things, but because of how he acts off the court also.


Djokovic not only shot himself in the foot with this incident, but also many other incidents also. People seem to forget that Djokovic routinely abuses timeouts and ball bouncing, and pretty much gets away with it every time.


Edit : How is this Nole_Destroyer guy not banned? He routinely flames obscenely.

forzainter
06-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Where is that?

Where is what? Scanning the boards just means looking at threads concerning the above players

veroniquem
06-05-2008, 12:39 PM
F*** you ********.
Calm down, we're just fooling around here, no need to be so aggressive.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Son, I will tell you something Djokovic is more popular then Nadal and Federee together.It is fact, not my opinion.


Firstly, im not your son.

Secondly, how is it possible for Djokovic to be more popular than Nadal and Federer together, when hes by far not even as popular as Federer. (Fans favourite popularity award for how many years in a row?)

Add Nadals popularity to that. And you can see how much of a joke your statement really is.

What are you smoking??


And to whoever said Federer was mentally unstable. How is it then that he is now one of "THE Mental Giants of the Open Era". Him crying showing emotion cannot be compared to time wasting, faking injury, retiring to avoid losing outright, talking arrogant about great players etc. Your comparison makes no sense at all. Load of hogwash.

oy vey
06-05-2008, 02:34 PM
Given the fact that he won 12 slams and dominated the tour for the last 4 years so I personally wouldn't use those words to describe Federer.


This video is when he was 20. Watching this video I would use those words to describe him. We are not talking about now.
:)

janipyt05
06-05-2008, 02:45 PM
You are just so full of it. Your blind hate is stopping you from hearing different opinions and arguments.

You are having double standards. Same actions from different players you judge differently.

If Novak is sick and retires it is cheating, if he is sick and does not retire, but asks for help, it is also a cheating. If Federer clips his toenails it is fine. Give me a brake.

This whole thread, display of hate from you and pathetic attempts to cover it up are what is sad here.

No need to waste more time here.

WHAT... which actions did i judge diffrently are you sure you are reading my comments, i have not talked about anyone in comparison to Djokovic, i have stuck to the subject.

What blind hate from were i am sitting a lot of people are in agreement that his antics are not right, i don't read anyone saying his not talented, i have not said he isn't either, you really need to read carefully.

Now why would i be full of myself, i have presented you with evidence of Djokovic dropping out with lame execuses which are facts, You who is a fan have not given me a reason to think he was not faking injury or wasting time to catch a rest.

Instead you choose to skip all the facts and call me names, i hate, i'm full of myself, i hate djokovic, the article is a lie... please i don't have the time to hate someone i don't know.

Have you watched the matches were he dropped out and u believe that he had the match won against nadal at the french when losing 6-4, 6-4, retire, and you believe he was so sick he couldn't finish against Federer agains losing the first set and down a break.

Ok if that is what you believe, its cool.

dr325i
06-05-2008, 02:52 PM
Ha, good one.

Sure, a few people like *****ovic. They tend to be from Serbia or have names like "Nole_Forever," or whatever. They get themselves worked into an absolute fit trying to defend their hero. But it doesn't change the fact that many, many people dislike the guy and his (and his family's) tactics.

So, you believe that this board may be a true measure of that???

dr325i
06-05-2008, 02:54 PM
Firstly, im not your son.

Secondly, how is it possible for Djokovic to be more popular than Nadal and Federer together, when hes by far not even as popular as Federer. (Fans favourite popularity award for how many years in a row?)
Add Nadals popularity to that. And you can see how much of a joke your statement really is.

What are you smoking??


And to whoever said Federer was mentally unstable. How is it then that he is now one of "THE Mental Giants of the Open Era". Him crying showing emotion cannot be compared to time wasting, faking injury, retiring to avoid losing outright, talking arrogant about great players etc. Your comparison makes no sense at all. Load of hogwash.

To the outlined:
How many people voted?
How many people follow tennis?

janipyt05
06-05-2008, 03:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpd23dTcT6c&feature=related

i'm not trying to spin on Djokovic, but really Fed rarely, if ever has such outburst to players camps, then hear what the commentator say about the relationship between Fed and Djokovic, that does not happen for no reason.

moonbat
06-05-2008, 03:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpd23dTcT6c&feature=related

i got nothing else to add

His parents need to STFU--he's got enough pressure on him as it is. Did you notice his coach in the background? He looked like he wanted to crawl under the seats. Agitating Federer and Nadal is like playing basketball with a hornet's nest--you will regret it.

oy vey
06-05-2008, 03:55 PM
Why do you think it is so many people/fans don't get behind Djoko?


2007/2008 is Novak's breakthrough year. I suspect Federer and Nadal have been around a few years longer in order to gather up fans. People dont know much about him yet.
One thing is certain, the US press and tennis establishment is in love with Djokovic. :)

daddy
06-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Here’s an interesting video. You can see Federer crying like a baby after a loss to Henman. He was 20. This shows Federer as a wuss, crybaby, immature and mentally unstable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8QDlcFHA4o

It's natural. His hunger for titles and pain after a loss were too much. Now imagine how strong he has to be to 'hide' his reactions in last 6 years ? He's okay.

sillymonkey
06-05-2008, 04:59 PM
2007/2008 is Novak's breakthrough year. I suspect Federer and Nadal have been around a few years longer in order to gather up fans. People dont know much about him yet.
One thing is certain, the US press and tennis establishment is in love with Djokovic. :)

I think what they love is another player to talk [incessantly] about. Some people are tired of Fed & Rafa winning everything.

oy vey
06-05-2008, 05:14 PM
It's natural. His hunger for titles and pain after a loss were too much. Now imagine how strong he has to be to 'hide' his reactions in last 6 years ? He's okay.

Daddy, do you think if Novak, age 20, cried after his match with Fed at the US Open nobody here would comment? He's a baby, a wuss, he's nuts, etc. I think there would be a 20 page thread on that.

SempreSami
06-05-2008, 05:16 PM
Nadal cried after Wimbledon last year and spent 20 minutes sat in an empty bathtub.

WUSS :roll:

daddy
06-05-2008, 05:22 PM
Daddy, do you think if Novak, age 20, cried after his match with Fed at the US Open nobody here would comment? He's a baby, a wuss, he's nuts, etc. I think there would be a 20 page thread on that.

I don't care what other people would say about Djokovic crying. I dont think he's such of a guy who'd do that but then again that does not dent Federer's image to me. He is that kind of a guy and aparently he had to control those emotions to get where he is now.

Btw - people on this board and general public are not even close as I already said. General public also likes emotional champs, thats why Federer needed 6-7 Grand Slam titles to get under regular fans skin. Hard core tennis fan liked him from the word go, but general public finds it hard to deal with ice cool looks until you become very succesfull. He spoke about a lot of things in some Swiss papers last month adding he made his weakness into his biggest strenght ( mental aspect ) and how he managed to turn around the fans by his flawless performances. I back him up in this statement 100%.

NamRanger
06-05-2008, 08:43 PM
According to GJ, it's ok to retire from a match when you have strep throat. I guess it's ok to lose a few matches here and there when you have Mono then right? Oh wait, since his name isn't Novak Djokovic, it's all a lie that was created to make a huge excuse for all the losses right?


Give me a break.

Leublu tennis
06-05-2008, 09:53 PM
Please save your response when you can properly defend Djokovic instead of cussing me out, why the hell would i ahte Djokovic when i don't know him personally, this is just an article to debate about, many players get called into question on this site, what is wrong with you people and constructive critisim you can't actually stick to a subject instead bring personally... i think you need to do the growing up and try to stick to the subject at hand it may be hard but do try.

Whoever wrote this is grown enough to write this paper, stick to the sujbect and show Djokovic for what he really is. If you can't take i suggest you keep quiet
Why should I defend Djokovic? I am a fan of only one player, Marat. But you asked how to classify the material you posted (where to file it) and I made my suggestion. The other comment was my general disappointment with your writing. You started so well. I really enjoyed reading the early part, then you fell appart. I could picture a person who talks calmly for a few minutes and then starts spitting out ugly words. Thats the picture you painted. Try again. I don't mean to discourage you from writing, just make an effort to be a bit more dispassionate in your dislike (hate?) of a very fine young player.

cueboyzn
06-05-2008, 10:21 PM
His parents need to STFU--he's got enough pressure on him as it is. Did you notice his coach in the background? He looked like he wanted to crawl under the seats. Agitating Federer and Nadal is like playing basketball with a hornet's nest--you will regret it.

Yeah thats what I say as well. Provoke them at your peril. You get the feeling both of them, Roger, Rafa, are just itching to swat Novak next time they see him other side of the net.

bagung
06-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Djokovic is great in hard court, even better than the great federer...
but on clay, nadal is THE BEST.......
VAMOS RAFA

janipyt05
06-06-2008, 02:28 AM
Why should I defend Djokovic? I am a fan of only one player, Marat. But you asked how to classify the material you posted (where to file it) and I made my suggestion. The other comment was my general disappointment with your writing. You started so well. I really enjoyed reading the early part, then you fell appart. I could picture a person who talks calmly for a few minutes and then starts spitting out ugly words. Thats the picture you painted. Try again. I don't mean to discourage you from writing, just make an effort to be a bit more dispassionate in your dislike (hate?) of a very fine young player.


Very nice.... you even have time to picutre me WOW... What actually makes you think i wrote this article myself? ... Are you for real. I didn't ask where to file it, i simply didn't want to make a thread possibly that may have been repeated so i explained as one would that if i could have posted it in a similar thread i would have but couldn't find one, so lets not get this twisted.

If you are fan of only one player Marat as you put it why are you answering why you should defend Djokovic?

Sorry to disappoint you but i do not and nor will i ever hate any tennis player, see i'm practical i can't hate on someone who i have never meet nor will i ever met. I simply found an article, about Djokovic posted and it took off. Non of Djokovic fans have managed to dispell Djokovic's actions which carry on today. Granted i got the dates wrong when he retired which do not negate the fact that these things have happened and granted at Wimbledon he had a blister, it does not explain the rest of his clearly unfair antics. Thats all, this is not as deep as you are trying to make it so just calm down. Djokovic is not the first nor will he be the last player to be questioned.

Don't worry you have not discouraged me, we don't know each other so why would i be troubled by your post, i'm too grown to be offended by someone i don't know. It's a forum i enjoying reading and at times posting.

I have not spat ugly words at anyone more so folks have called me a lair, article is made up, hater, I should grow up and my writing is bad, not actually sticking to the subject only making pesonal attacks that just means you know Djokovic's actions are wrong and can't refute his actions, or debate in a nice manner so you jump to attacking me, if it makes you feel better it's cool.

If you reading very carefully, i had said he is clearly very talented...

Done

oy vey
06-06-2008, 05:38 AM
Btw - people on this board and general public are not even close as I already said. General public also likes emotional champs, thats why Federer needed 6-7 Grand Slam titles to get under regular fans skin.


Maybe that's why the tennis establisment and US press like Novak. He is rather emotional.

feetofclay
06-06-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm a Djokovic fan (obvious from my other posts) but I was at that match and there is no question that Djokovic did everything but crap on the umpire to win that match. The general feeling of those in the small crowd was that he cheated his way to the win a la JMac who similarly abused the rules back in his day.

But they were 18 I think. Djokovic has come a long way since then. Which is more then you can say about JMac who continued his abuse of the rules throughout his career.

I watched the whole Nadal vs Djokovic semi final today. When Djokovic lost his serve in the second set his team clearly signalled to him to get off the court, consequently he asked the umpire if he could take a bathroom break before Nadal's serve. A request which I am pleased to say was refused. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

bhallic24
06-06-2008, 01:24 PM
I watched the whole Nadal vs Djokovic semi final today. When Djokovic lost his serve in the second set his team clearly signalled to him to get off the court, consequently he asked the umpire if he could take a bathroom break before Nadal's serve. A request which I am pleased to say was refused. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

Can't say I like this novak character. don't like his game, his style, his excuses, his antics etc... He's totally the Male version of Maria Shriekapova for me. Loved that Rafa sat this boy on his *** today. Lol and now poor joker has to blame the slow court conditions on center court for his malo performance.

daddy
06-06-2008, 01:33 PM
I watched the whole Nadal vs Djokovic semi final today. When Djokovic lost his serve in the second set his team clearly signalled to him to get off the court, consequently he asked the umpire if he could take a bathroom break before Nadal's serve. A request which I am pleased to say was refused. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

He lost fair and square. Whats a problem now - he did not do anything out of the ordinary so let's pick on whatever we can find nd bash ? Heh, seems that you did not change your spots after all. I found Monfils's calls to the crowd in last set much more inapropriate yet its only expected from a local guy. No one cares to mention that .. but toilet break is a problem. Right.

coloskier
06-06-2008, 01:40 PM
According to GJ, it's ok to retire from a match when you have strep throat. I guess it's ok to lose a few matches here and there when you have Mono then right? Oh wait, since his name isn't Novak Djokovic, it's all a lie that was created to make a huge excuse for all the losses right?


Give me a break.

At least Fed finished his matches. A legitimate loss. He didn't quit when the going got tough.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 02:22 PM
He lost fair and square. Whats a problem now - he did not do anything out of the ordinary so let's pick on whatever we can find nd bash ? Heh, seems that you did not change your spots after all. I found Monfils's calls to the crowd in last set much more inapropriate yet its only expected from a local guy. No one cares to mention that .. but toilet break is a problem. Right.


I'm not familiar with all the tennis rules, but can't a player take a bathroom break? I'd much rather see a player be granted a toilet break when they need to go rather than see them wet their pants on court.

gj011
06-06-2008, 02:58 PM
I see that Novak hater party continues here. They are running out of excuses to bash Novak, so now they are getting more and more ridiculous reasons.

Yes he winked to his camp and then asked for a bathroom break. LOL

As I said, so much hatred is not good for your health. You haters should be worried.

feetofclay
06-06-2008, 03:00 PM
He lost fair and square. Whats a problem now - he did not do anything out of the ordinary so let's pick on whatever we can find nd bash ? Heh, seems that you did not change your spots after all. I found Monfils's calls to the crowd in last set much more inapropriate yet its only expected from a local guy. No one cares to mention that .. but toilet break is a problem. Right.

Yes he was beaten fair and square. The point I was making was that his team were clearly seen to signal to him following the loss of his service. The signal clearly indicated that he should take a break. I have no problem with a player taking a legitimate toilet break, but wouldn't Djokovic himself know if he needed such a break? Why did his team need to signal to him? Very convenient timing just when he had lost his service again and just before Nadal's service game.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 03:05 PM
Yes he was beaten fair and square. The point I was making was that his team were clearly seen to signal to him following the loss of his service. The signal clearly indicated that he should take a break. I have no problem with a player taking a legitimate toilet break, but wouldn't Djokovic himself know if he needed such a break? Why did his team need to signal to him? Very convenient timing just when he had lost his service again and just before Nadal's service game.

Well, maybe they have to remind him to go to the bathroom - much like a mother asks her child if he has to go.

daddy
06-06-2008, 03:09 PM
Yes he was beaten fair and square. The point I was making was that his team were clearly seen to signal to him following the loss of his service. The signal clearly indicated that he should take a break. I have no problem with a player taking a legitimate toilet break, but wouldn't Djokovic himself know if he needed such a break? Why did his team need to signal to him? Very convenient timing just when he had lost his service again and just before Nadal's service game.

Cmon this is a really lame excuse to bash him. I feel like there were times when he did some inapropriate things and at those times Id shut up and read what people write or criticize myself. Anyways this is not even worth mentioning and did not happen the way you describe it just for the record. Even if it did, big deal.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Cmon this is a really lame excuse to bash him. I feel like there were times when he did some inapropriate things and at those times Id shut up and read what people write or criticize myself. Anyways this is not even worth mentioning and did not happen the way you describe it just for the record. Even if it did, big deal.


I still can't see what he did wrong...perhaps he really needed to go to the bathroom - that should be within the rules.

forzainter
06-06-2008, 03:22 PM
I still can't see what he did wrong...perhaps he really needed to go to the bathroom - that should be within the rules.

The reason it was rejected, as believed by the eurosport commentators, is because Nadal would be serving right after the break, and it would be unfair for Nadal to wait for that bit longer while Djokovic leaves the court

daddy
06-06-2008, 03:23 PM
The reason it was rejected, as believed by the eurosport commentators, is because Nadal would be serving right after the break, and it would be unfair for Nadal to wait for that bit longer while Djokovic leaves the court

And he left after the set was finished and came back in like a minute. End of story.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 03:23 PM
The reason it was rejected, as believed by the eurosport commentators, is because Nadal would be serving right after the break, and it would be unfair for Nadal to wait for that bit longer while Djokovic leaves the court


Oh, thanks for explaining. Seems like a ludicrous rule - if a player needs to use the bathroom, they should not have to worry at what point in the match it is - that's ridiculous.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 03:24 PM
Oh, thanks for explaining. Seems like a ludicrous rule - if a player needs to use the bathroom, they should not have to worry at what point in the match it is - that's ridiculous.

Perhaps the best way to erradicate this problem is to have all the players wear adult diapers.

allcourter
06-06-2008, 03:26 PM
Can't say I like this novak character. don't like his game, his style, his excuses, his antics etc... He's totally the Male version of Maria Shriekapova for me. Loved that Rafa sat this boy on his *** today. Lol and now poor joker has to blame the slow court conditions on center court for his malo performance.

I am very happy to see Nadal beats this immature jerk-***, Djokovic. Be humble as a true champion if you are one.

janipyt05
06-06-2008, 03:57 PM
Yes the rules ahve changed you can only go to the bathroom after a set, but then they also say say you can go when it is on your serve so as not to shift momentum, it disturbs only you because you leave the court and come back to serve.

This match was the best of Rafa's matches so far, the 1st and 2nd set Djokovic was a punching bag for Rafa, Djokovic was in the games in the 1st and 2nd set but made way too many errors and was lulled into playing the way Rafa wants. Djokovic stepped it up in the 3rd and it became a real contest. Djokovic is really talented, his defence was second to none, his shot making in the 3rd had me clapping for him, once he believed he could take the ball early and create space Rafa looked taken back and had to steady himself to adjust to the change in Djokovic's approach. Great match and i think had this been another opponent Djokovic would have won.

gj011
06-06-2008, 03:58 PM
Lots of fresh new green trolls. Interesting. Haters are cloning themselves.

He lost. He was behaving fine. He gave credit. Let it go. Jeeeez.

zagor
06-06-2008, 03:59 PM
I didn't see anything wrong with what Novak did today(and no before someone says I'm not his fan I'm just stating my opinion).Bash him when he deserves and today he didn't.

Atherton2003
06-06-2008, 03:59 PM
Lots of fresh new green trolls. Interesting. Haters are cloning themselves.

He lost. He was behaving fine. He gave credit. Let is go. Jeeeez.

I can't see anything wrong with going to the bathroom. If they decline and he wets his pants or worse, can he then have a "change of clothes" break?

babbette
06-07-2008, 12:44 AM
there's nothing wrong with going to the bathroom but when he did it i was like "hmm, typical!"


But i have to say this from his interview surprised me.

"The first two sets were very bad. I had no rhythm and was hitting too many unforced errors," said Djokovic.

"Then I decided to go for my shots and try everything or nothing. But I wasn't moving like I was in Hamburg.

"He showed once again that he is very strong mentally. He's the best defensive player in the world and plays every point as if it's match point. The better player won today."


it's almost as if someone else was talking, lol. if his attitude changes, i might like him. that's my main problem with him, his attitude. let's see what happens. Maybe he's learning from Rafa. I think he wants to be him:shock:

janipyt05
06-07-2008, 12:56 AM
i personally don't see anything wrong in going off to the bathroom even if he didn't need to go he just needed clear his heard and get off court, that to me if perfectly fine, i get that they are trying not to disturb the other player say if he has to serve after Djokovic returns, but if you gotta go, there is nothing like let me wait till its on my serve. I don't think its practical.

rafan
06-07-2008, 03:18 AM
Not a Novak fan but he did look nervous coming out on to the court. After all this was more than just an ordinary tennis match - pos no 2 was at stake - so he probably needed to go!

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 03:23 AM
Not a Novak fan but he did look nervous coming out on to the court. After all this was more than just an ordinary tennis match - pos no 2 was at stake - so he probably needed to go!


I don't recall Nadal ever taking a bathroom break - evening during 4+ hour matches...is he human?

fednad
06-07-2008, 04:01 AM
Yes he was beaten fair and square. The point I was making was that his team were clearly seen to signal to him following the loss of his service. The signal clearly indicated that he should take a break. I have no problem with a player taking a legitimate toilet break, but wouldn't Djokovic himself know if he needed such a break? Why did his team need to signal to him? Very convenient timing just when he had lost his service again and just before Nadal's service game.

What was the signal? Please elaborate.

fednad
06-07-2008, 04:02 AM
Lots of fresh new green trolls. Interesting. Haters are cloning themselves.

He lost. He was behaving fine. He gave credit. Let it go. Jeeeez.

LOL...I liked that comment.

fednad
06-07-2008, 04:03 AM
I don't recall Nadal ever taking a bathroom break - evening during 4+ hour matches...is he human?

I think he does not have gall bladder

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 04:09 AM
I think he does not have gall bladder

LOL...he probably has no bladder...he never has to go to the bathroom....

feetofclay
06-07-2008, 04:49 AM
What was the signal? Please elaborate.

Djokovic looked up to his team after losing his service. One of his team raised his right hand with his thumb up and quickly indicated backwards with his thumb. At this point Djokovic asked for a bathroom break. This may seem a minor thing to many but I believe it would have been a blatant misuse of a bathroom break, just as medical time-outs are misused by some.

I don't hate Djokovic, how can you hate someone who you do not even know, but I do dislike his attitude and what appears at times to be very unsportsmanlike behaviour.

daddy
06-07-2008, 04:54 AM
Djokovic looked up to his team after losing his service. One of his team raised his right hand with his thumb up and quickly indicated backwards with his thumb. At this point Djokovic asked for a bathroom break. This may seem a minor thing to many but I believe it would have been a blatant misuse of a bathroom break, just as medical time-outs are misused by some.

I don't hate Djokovic, how can you hate someone who you do not even know, but I do dislike his attitude and what appears at times to be very unsportsmanlike behaviour.

I recommend a 6 months ban. Btw what's about the blatant abuse of illegal coaching from Monfils between every point during the whole tournament ? Oh yes, I forgot you're not a hater. At least not a Monfils hater.

feetofclay
06-07-2008, 05:01 AM
I recommend a 6 months ban. Btw what's about the blatant abuse of illegal coaching from Monfils between every point during the whole tournament ? Oh yes, I forgot you're not a hater. At least not a Monfils hater.

Quite agree with you on the illegal coaching by Monfils team. I believe they were previously warned about it, but it was so blatant that they should have received some sort of formal code violation.

daddy
06-07-2008, 05:06 AM
Quite agree with you on the illegal coaching by Monfils team. I believe they were previously warned about it, but it was so blatant that they should have received some sort of formal code violation.

Yes but don't you see the point ? They all give him a pass, umpires, other pro's, general public, media etc. Its not something which is that important in the world of tennis, not the toilete breaks nor the coaching. I think one is illegal but still questionable. As I said, big deal. We should drop this immediately.

rafan
06-07-2008, 05:19 AM
I don't recall Nadal ever taking a bathroom break - evening during 4+ hour matches...is he human?

I cannot remember either Fed or Nadal or Borg or Mac or Jimmy ever taking a toilet break - apparently Sharapova was denied one according to BBC commentor

taffymoon
06-07-2008, 05:31 AM
The joker needs to go to the bathroom, and stay in the bathroom.

daddy
06-07-2008, 05:50 AM
I cannot remember either Fed or Nadal or Borg or Mac or Jimmy ever taking a toilet break - apparently Sharapova was denied one according to BBC commentor

That is because of rather short term or selective memory you have. Remember once Fed took the toilet break in AO they showed a footage of him running back to the court and almost stumbling when someone was in his way ? Now lets just simply put this statement of yours where it belongs - in trashcan. If you dont remember something which happened like 5 months ago, how would you remember what did Jimbo do back in the days ?

fed_rulz
06-07-2008, 05:55 AM
[QUOTE=daddy;2403062]Remember once Fed took the toilet break in USO they showed a footage of him running back to the court and almost stumbling when someone was in his way ?QUOTE]

I think it was at the 2008 AO during the tipsarevic match. He almost collided with the janitor's equipment.

daddy
06-07-2008, 05:57 AM
^^ Here is the thread. There I corrected my post above.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=176470&highlight=federer+jump

TheTruth
06-07-2008, 09:56 AM
And Daddy, Federer has shown times he can be teed off after a loss, you are right. But never once has he been blatantly arrogant as Djokovic, ever. I don't think I've ever seen Federer say "I was completely in control of the match" When he was down a set and 2 breaks, and retires.

Maybe he didn't do exactly as Djokovic did, but Federer's done his fair share too. The only problem is that it gets excused, while Djokovic gets crucified. Go back and read the articles. He was routinely dissing Nadal when the h2h was 6-1 or 7-1 to his disadvantage. He called Uncle Toni a cheater on court. Made a big deal about the "time violations."


Federer gives credit where credit is due. He gave Safin credit when Safin beat him at the AO 2005.

He did not. He said he had something wrong with his feet in that match, and he reminded the press that he had a winning h2h against Safin.

He gave Nalbandian credit at the TMC 2005 even though he literally was playing with no movement whatsoever.

He gave credit to Nalbandian and then called his buddy Wawrinka and asked him to beat Nalbandian when they played, and also asked Stan to beat Canas too.

He gives credit to Nadal, and said that he felt lucky to win Wimbledon in 2007.

He gives credit to Nadal now, because Nadal took the high road and never retaliated. You have to respect a player like that.

He is constantly awarded by the press and his own fellow players, not just because of press interviews or public things, but because of how he acts off the court also.

He gets the awards because they want to give them to him. Never before has a champion been so negatively quoted against another player, except McEnroe and Connors, and as you can see they are also held in the highest esteem.

Djokovic not only shot himself in the foot with this incident, but also many other incidents also. People seem to forget that Djokovic routinely abuses timeouts and ball bouncing, and pretty much gets away with it every time.

Federer did ask for the chair to turn off the let machine at Wimby last year. He did stop the match with Tipsarevic to get his toenails clipped. He's done just as many things as Djokovic has, so I don't understand why you're not seeing it.




I'm not a Djokovic fan in the least. I agree his tactics are dubious, but he is not the only one. To down Djokovic and uplift Federer is a bit crazy imo, unless you're just not reading articles, or making excuses for his behavior. After reading some of the responses in this thread, it's sad to say that a lot of this is pure hatred. Why? I think we all know why. The truth is, I wish he wasn't nipping at Nadal's heels too, but he's earned that. To not like someone is fine, but to try to rip them to shreds is sad!

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm not familiar with all the tennis rules, but can't a player take a bathroom break? I'd much rather see a player be granted a toilet break when they need to go rather than see them wet their pants on court.
I think they can go but within specific rules and not just before the other player's serve. In Indian Wells, Rafa was refused a medical time out to treat his foot because Djoko was about to serve. If the bathroom break had been allowed just before Rafa's serve at RG, I would have been furious at the double standards.

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:26 AM
Oh, thanks for explaining. Seems like a ludicrous rule - if a player needs to use the bathroom, they should not have to worry at what point in the match it is - that's ridiculous.
I disagree. Bathroom breaks can be used to disrupt the rhythm or momentum in a match. It's up to the players to plan their bathroom break at an appropriate time (before their own serve or at the end of a set). It shouldn't be too hard, they're not 4 years old after all!

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 10:29 AM
I disagree. Bathroom breaks can be used to disrupt the rhythm or momentum in a match. It's up to the players to plan their bathroom break at an appropriate time (before their own serve or at the end of a set). It shouldn't be too hard, they're not 4 years old after all!


I respect your opinion, but I just feel when a player needs to go to the bathroom, they should be allowed. Sometimes, the urge can just come on due to nerves or other reasons. It's uncomfortable to play, and play properly, if one has to relieve themselves.

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't recall Nadal ever taking a bathroom break - evening during 4+ hour matches...is he human?
He goes to the bathroom before the match starts... Clever guy :wink:

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 10:32 AM
He goes to the bathroom before the match starts... Clever guy :wink:

and he can hold it in for 4 hours? remarkable.

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:37 AM
there's nothing wrong with going to the bathroom but when he did it i was like "hmm, typical!"


But i have to say this from his interview surprised me.




it's almost as if someone else was talking, lol. if his attitude changes, i might like him. that's my main problem with him, his attitude. let's see what happens. Maybe he's learning from Rafa. I think he wants to be him:shock:
It is not that complimentary. He blamed only himself for the loss of the 1st 2 sets, not Nadal's faultless play (he didn't have to say it was faultless but he could have acknowledged it was good), then for the 3rd set commented that Nadal was "the best defensive player". He should have said the best player period. Nadal has a great defense but he was also very offensive in that set. No big deal of course I don't care that he said that but I don't find it remarkably generous of him either.

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:43 AM
and he can hold it in for 4 hours? remarkable.
What are you trying to say here? Nadal is an android passed off as a human being by greedy sponsors? For what it's worth (probably not much...), I can stay 4 hours without going to the bathroom (8 hours at night!), what's the big fuss with that?

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 10:47 AM
I respect your opinion, but I just feel when a player needs to go to the bathroom, they should be allowed. Sometimes, the urge can just come on due to nerves or other reasons. It's uncomfortable to play, and play properly, if one has to relieve themselves.
yes but still it has to be regulated, otherwise what keeps me from having a bathroom break everytime my opponent breaks me and messing his pace. You don't realize how professional players want to win so much that they (at least some of them) will use any tiny loophole in the rules to affect an opponent's momentum or concentration.

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 10:53 AM
What are you trying to say here? Nadal is an android passed off as a human being by greedy sponsors? For what it's worth (probably not much...), I can stay 4 hours without going to the bathroom (8 hours at night!), what's the big fuss with that?


good for you! Not all players can do that and shouldn't be penalized and have to wait when they need to go....so I'll agree to disagree with you on this.

Atherton2003
06-07-2008, 10:54 AM
yes but still it has to be regulated, otherwise what keeps me from having a bathroom break everytime my opponent breaks me and messing his pace. You don't realize how professional players want to win so much that they (at least some of them) will use any tiny loophole in the rules to affect an opponent's momentum or concentration.

thanks for explaining it.....I didn't realize players can fake bathroom breaks...to disrupt the rythm of another player.....these professional players should be good enough to not let such a thing bother them.....and maybe they can have some guards ensure the player is really using the bathroom....

daddy
06-07-2008, 02:39 PM
yes but still it has to be regulated, otherwise what keeps me from having a bathroom break everytime my opponent breaks me and messing his pace. You don't realize how professional players want to win so much that they (at least some of them) will use any tiny loophole in the rules to affect an opponent's momentum or concentration.

You get just one of those breaks and as you can clearly see, both Nadal and Djokovic were denied a bathroom break in the mid set, which means umpires are enforcing the rules. I see nothing wrong here.

lainey80
06-07-2008, 02:48 PM
OP is a hater and this article is a bunch of lies.

Again, we agree.

Yes, OP, who is the source of this 'article'?

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 02:56 PM
You get just one of those breaks and as you can clearly see, both Nadal and Djokovic were denied a bathroom break in the mid set, which means umpires are enforcing the rules. I see nothing wrong here.
I'm not saying there is. I think the rules were enforced correctly.

veroniquem
06-07-2008, 02:59 PM
thanks for explaining it.....I didn't realize players can fake bathroom breaks...to disrupt the rythm of another player.....these professional players should be good enough to not let such a thing bother them.....and maybe they can have some guards ensure the player is really using the bathroom....
The issue is not about checking what the players do in the bathroom but not taking a break before the opponent's serve as a courtesy to him. Anyway, I agree that professional players can find ways to deal with breaks and time outs no matter what.

Satch
06-07-2008, 03:09 PM
So is Djoker the most hated player on this board?
I just can't understand why, i am a Roger fan and i like Joker but i am in the 1% group on this forum thinking so.
Joker Rules!

rafan
06-16-2008, 09:51 AM
That is because of rather short term or selective memory you have. Remember once Fed took the toilet break in AO they showed a footage of him running back to the court and almost stumbling when someone was in his way ? Now lets just simply put this statement of yours where it belongs - in trashcan. If you dont remember something which happened like 5 months ago, how would you remember what did Jimbo do back in the days ?

Well I cannot remember it happening during the intense matches I watched ever. It is impossible to watch all the matches ( many of us have to work) and in this instance I can rightly say I cannot remember and who are you to make the decision as to which statement belongs to the trashcan - I suggest you "memorise" some of your contributions to this site and reflect whether they may belong there!!