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View Full Version : Solution to Federer's pathetic performance


sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:21 AM
Ball machine.

That is right. Get the highest-end ball machine and program it to pitch the ball with spin, pace and trajectory resembling Nadal. If there is no such machine, pay a robotics company to develop one.

And practise, practise, practise. No one else can match the forehand to backhand lefty topspin of Nadal. Ball machine is the best bet.

To match Nadal's retrieving capabilities program the machine to pitch the next ball around the time Nadal would return the shot. And keep doing this over and over again.

Get rid of Higueras and spend the money on a ball machine. What Federer lacks is not strategy, but simply the ability to be consistent with the ball (no shanking) when pressurized by Nadal. Otherwise Nadal just says "Shank you very much" and pockets the point.

ACE of Hearts
06-08-2008, 08:22 AM
LMAO.Roger did do alot of shanking.Some of those errors where really silly.His serve was also a big letdown.

BlahDow
06-08-2008, 08:23 AM
lol..well at least he'd be able to beat Nadal...dunno how it would effect his game against other people =P

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:24 AM
LMAO.Roger did do alot of shanking.Some of those errors where really silly.His serve was also a big letdown.

Dare we raise the issue of a bigger racquet now? Or will the small-headed racquet folks shut us up?

grizzly4life
06-08-2008, 08:25 AM
seems like playing nadal on clay is like playing against a wall, without the spin of course.

bigger racquet head for sure. it's time!

Morrissey
06-08-2008, 08:25 AM
Dude, give it up. It just ain't gonna happen.

loner1984
06-08-2008, 08:28 AM
I work in a retail store where we use a Playmate ball machine mounted on a riser and can be programmed using a bluetooth PC. I have a saved program on there called "Rafa's Claycourt Ball" with a 60 mph. lefty topspin drive bouncing up about 8 feet high. A certain aspiring pro that is currently playing futures events comes in there every so often to hit against it.

Fed should stop by.

Pancho
06-08-2008, 08:29 AM
Federer's balls do not clear the net as high as Nadal. Nadals; ball clears the net over 6 feet consistently. Federer's is only an average of 3 feet. Nadal is playing high percentage tennis, Federer is not. Federer will never beat Nadal in French Open if he continues to play like that. In order for Federer to win, he needs to hit with the same massive Topspin that Nadal has. The reason why Nadal win on clay is because of his massive topspin that throws all players off. Not even Djokovic can handle Nadal's topspin.

alienhamster
06-08-2008, 08:31 AM
He would shank a lot less if he would just hit some well-placed slices more often. He goes for topspin shots off the backhand side that he really just shouldn't.

He's running around his backhand WAY too much, too. He doesn't have the ability to cover the open court like other clay courters do (Nadal, Moya). If he'd just be more patient and use the slice backhand as a rally shot, he'll eventually get a shot he can spank and/or come to net on.

As for the forehand shanks . . . again, that's unusual for him. Sometimes he was just out of position and rushing. I was most struck by how many forehands he hit into the net today.

CyBorg
06-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Interesting thread.

I think that sophisticated ball machines are the future, except that they won't be ball machines but virtual reality tennis games that will simulate the experience of playing a particular opponent.

You can quote me on this 40 years from now.

Belmonte13
06-08-2008, 08:34 AM
Dude, give it up. It just ain't gonna happen.

completely agree. this is an absurd thread....nadal refuses to lose.

helloworld
06-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Federer's forehand myth is a joke. Nadal's forehand is the real deal. Beware of the "Fearhand". :)

loner1984
06-08-2008, 08:38 AM
Now that we're on the topic of ball machines, this particular machine we have at the store can actually be made to rise up about 21 ft. and serve down a blistering 130 mph flat bomb down the T. I have a program called "Boom-boom Becker serve" that does exactly that. I wanted to name it the "Roddick Super Serve" but the machine can't go faster than 130 mph, so I really can't replicate Roddick's serve.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:40 AM
As for the forehand shanks . . . again, that's unusual for him. Sometimes he was just out of position and rushing.

I pointed out before that he was doing this all the time at the FO. Starting late, and rushing to the ball. He was not recovering as well as other players do. The story of Fed having a great defense is a myth. What happens is that he makes a couple of spectacular shots with the ball behind him and on the run and everyone applauds. They forget the many more occasions when he just stands in one position and then rushes to the ball in the open court, and misses it.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:41 AM
Interesting thread.

I think that sophisticated ball machines are the future, except that they won't be ball machines but virtual reality tennis games that will simulate the experience of playing a particular opponent.

You can quote me on this 40 years from now.

From your name, the future is already here?

Table tennis players use ball machines a good deal. Tennis pros need to tap into the potential, beyond the use in their junior years thru a coach.

ACE of Hearts
06-08-2008, 08:42 AM
Federer is not as great a mover as Nadal on clay.How u expect him to cover the court?On grass he moves like a dancer compared to clay.

CyBorg
06-08-2008, 08:43 AM
From your name, the future is already here?

No, it's from where I came.:)

Tennis is behind technologically. Very much behind.

Baseball already has virtual reality apparati. Pitchers, for example, simulate throwing the ball with a special video game to work on their windup.

There is much less money in tennis than there is in some of the other big sports.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:45 AM
No, it's from where I came.:)

Tennis is behind technologically. Very much behind.

Baseball already has virtual reality apparati. Pitchers, for example, simulate throwing the ball with a special video game to work on their windup.

There is much less money in tennis than there is in some of the other big sports.

Why don't you and I start a company (with Fed's investment of course)? We can build ball machines and serving robots with software to emulate any player on demand.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:46 AM
Now that we're on the topic of ball machines, this particular machine we have at the store can actually be made to rise up about 21 ft. and serve down a blistering 130 mph flat bomb down the T. I have a program called "Boom-boom Becker serve" that does exactly that. I wanted to name it the "Roddick Super Serve" but the machine can't go faster than 130 mph, so I really can't replicate Roddick's serve.

I don't know if you are joking, but if not, why 21 feet? How does that help in simulating a real serve?

loner1984
06-08-2008, 08:49 AM
Tennis pros need to tap into the potential, beyond the use in their junior years thru a coach.

Very true. I believe that increasing use of technology to improve stroke production and even strategy will become more and more integral to a player's evolution.

Here at the store we use a video analysis tool called "Dartfish" that captures a player's strokes and has the capability to re-play in super-slo motion. It's pretty neat.

I can only imagine about 20 years from now what other aids can be used to improve our games.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 08:50 AM
Very true. I believe that increasing use of technology to improve stroke production and even strategy will become more and more integral to a player's evolution.

Here at the store we use a video analysis tool called "Dartfish" that captures a player's strokes and has the capability to re-play in super-slo motion. It's pretty neat.

I can only imagine about 20 years from now what other aids can be used to improve our games.

Dartfish is also used at Vic Braden centers, I think.

taffymoon
06-08-2008, 08:55 AM
Roger needs a really good shrink.

CyBorg
06-08-2008, 08:55 AM
Why don't you and I start a company (with Fed's investment of course)? We can build ball machines and serving robots with software to emulate any player on demand.

Someone will do this, but tennis is too global a sport without a real national centre. It's losing its grip on the American audience as well, and all the big dough is in America.

This is an interesting idea though. I work with cyber technologies, but I haven't dabbled in virtual reality. Maybe some day.

loner1984
06-08-2008, 09:01 AM
I don't know if you are joking, but if not, why 21 feet? How does that help in simulating a real serve?

The riser can lift the ball machine up to that height to simulate the different trajectory of people's serves. I'm assuming people like Karlovic or Isner strike the ball at the apex of their serves around that height. However you can reduce this height at the flick of a switch.

I swear I'm not a sales rep for this company (I'm just a racquet technician at the store) but this is really the coolest machine I've worked with. Here's a link. http://www.playmatetennismachines.com/grand_slam.htm

loner1984
06-08-2008, 09:02 AM
Okay, maybe 21 feet is a little bit of a stretch. But when the machine is up there it seems to be that high.

sureshs
06-08-2008, 09:31 AM
Okay, maybe 21 feet is a little bit of a stretch. But when the machine is up there it seems to be that high.

Probably 11 or 12 feet.

MichaelNadal
06-08-2008, 10:43 AM
No one is going to beat a healthy Nadal on clay.

Stchamps
06-08-2008, 10:46 AM
Federer's forehand myth is a joke. Nadal's forehand is the real deal. Beware of the "Fearhand". :)

Yea Nadal's forehand is definitely better on clay, but on lower bouncing surfaces like grass and hard court those massive topspin shots just bounce right into player's sweet spots.

NamRanger
06-08-2008, 11:06 AM
For once someone doesn't come up with a ******** idea. I like it actually.

VictorS.
06-08-2008, 11:18 AM
You know, James Blake came back from injury & illness (broken neck, shingles, etc) with an improved backhand. In fact, his backhand, which he often hits aggressively on the rise has given Nadal some fits in the past.

Of course, playing on clay against Nadal is a totally different ballgame than on any other surface. However, given the fact that Brian Barker has been criticized often by the press...wouldn't it be ironic if Federer sought advice from him regarding playing Nadal?

Mr. Ding
06-08-2008, 12:22 PM
Federer needs a long vacation, that was a horrendous beating.

Pro_Tour_630
06-08-2008, 02:14 PM
Dare we raise the issue of a bigger racquet now? Or will the small-headed racquet folks shut us up?

wanna solution on clay?

ONE WORD, well actually three
Pro Tour 630
the small 85-90 is dead on clay

taffymoon
06-08-2008, 02:16 PM
i cannot wait until wimbledon!

D. Nelson
06-08-2008, 05:22 PM
....a lot of good opinions here (for a NICE change!!) :

....I think that might have been THE B E S T match 'I' have ever seen Nadal play (strategy/serving/hustle/low error count !!)....EVER !!! Too bad it was against Fed...he didn't have MUCH more of a chance than anybody ELSE would have !!! I'd say that Fed spent fully 85% of the time 'stuck' in his backhand corner...and Nadal seemed content to PUT him there...on E V E R Y point....amazing !!! by the way...from what I saw of Nadal today, 'I' give him a H U G E chance at Wimby !!

....that ball machine idea is NOT a bad idea....or multiple hitting partners on court at the same time....hitting multi-ball patterns; with the next shot coming before Roger can fully recover.....that's one good drill....also...starting a point FROM the bh corner...aGAINST those multiple hitters....to simulate how Nadal really DID blanket the court.....all DAY today !!

Political Thunder
06-08-2008, 05:28 PM
Take out his his frustration with a hot swedish model.

crazytennis
06-08-2008, 05:31 PM
Now that we're on the topic of ball machines, this particular machine we have at the store can actually be made to rise up about 21 ft. and serve down a blistering 130 mph flat bomb down the T. I have a program called "Boom-boom Becker serve" that does exactly that. I wanted to name it the "Roddick Super Serve" but the machine can't go faster than 130 mph, so I really can't replicate Roddick's serve.

Is this the supposedly "World;s greatest ball machine?" where you can feature your favourite players' playing style ?
I watched a commercial for that thing.

quest01
06-08-2008, 05:50 PM
If Federer played the way he did against Nadal at the French, Nadal would be the favorite to win Wimbledon. The way Federer played today was an embarrassment to everyone associated with the game of Tennis. Don't get me wrong Nadal had something to do with Federer not playing as well but he was making an ungodly amount of unforced errors especially on his backhand side with all the shanking he committed.

loner1984
06-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Is this the supposedly "World;s greatest ball machine?" where you can feature your favourite players' playing style ?
I watched a commercial for that thing.

It's possible with a lot of tweaking and tinkering.

Pinnacle Powerserver
06-08-2008, 07:09 PM
Interesting thread.

I think that sophisticated ball machines are the future, except that they won't be ball machines but virtual reality tennis games that will simulate the experience of playing a particular opponent.

You can quote me on this 40 years from now.

Back in the Andy Richter days, Max did a video of him having sex with himself, funniest thing i've seen ever hahaha

Morrissey
06-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Wow! I thought I've heard it all until today. Can they make the ball machine hit on the run too?

Pinnacle Powerserver
06-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Now that we're on the topic of ball machines, this particular machine we have at the store can actually be made to rise up about 21 ft. and serve down a blistering 130 mph flat bomb down the T. I have a program called "Boom-boom Becker serve" that does exactly that. I wanted to name it the "Roddick Super Serve" but the machine can't go faster than 130 mph, so I really can't replicate Roddick's serve.

i think the military will be at your doorstep before federer lol

Carlyn Blair
06-08-2008, 07:22 PM
Today it was sad, Roger Federer had a bad day at Roland Garros, this guy at tenniscruz seems to have the explanation: In Roland Garros - Roger Federer Fell Victim to his Lack of Respect for Jose Higueras!

http://tenniscruz.com/content/view/267/90/

samster
06-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Today it was sad, Roger Federer had a bad day at Roland Garros, this guy at tenniscruz seems to have the explanation: In Roland Garros - Roger Federer Fell Victim to his Lack of Respect for Jose Higueras!

http://tenniscruz.com/content/view/267/90/

I agree that Higueras didn't have enough time to work with Federer and fully implement his ideas to Roger. Roger just seemed confused out there at times, without any clear strategy/strategies.

But give credit to Nadal. Nobody could have beaten him today. Could the match be more competitive? Probably.

RoddickistheMan
06-08-2008, 08:38 PM
that wouldn't be a bad idea. Im sure he has the money to do it as well. It is a little nutty. Also why not just get a bigger frame. 95 or a 98 wouldnt be completely illogical.

tennis_hand
06-08-2008, 09:10 PM
seriously, Nadal is just a bad match for Federer.
There is no simple solution to Federer.

Federer historically loses to the grinders who make few unforced errors. Fed's strategy is to attack so that his opponent will make a lot of errors. So if his opponent does not break down under his attack, then Fed will make a lot of unforced errors and lose the match. This were so against Nalbandian, Canas and Andy Murray and especially so against Nadal on clay.

morten
06-09-2008, 12:46 AM
Slice more on the backhand, attack the net on a more consistant basis IMO!

Strobe Lights
06-09-2008, 03:38 AM
The problem was that Federer had a mental, emotional and psychological breakdown after 3 years of being so dominant yet being dominated by one man on one surface. In MC and Hamburg he showed that (on his worst surface) he could dominate Nadal (who might become the best claycourter ever) for patches and therefore, while he was always going to lose, the manner of it was because he finally didn't believe he could win and just collapsed. Sad to see.

aceroberts13
06-09-2008, 03:42 AM
It does seem a bit silly to me, but switching to a bigger frame might help him a little. His game planning will still need work but that backhand will have a little more room for error and a little more pop. Pistol Pete was wanting to switch to a bigger frame for the french so maybe it could help Fed a little too. Even with that though, I don't think Fed will ever have Nadal's number on clay.

sureshs
06-09-2008, 04:45 AM
Wow! I thought I've heard it all until today. Can they make the ball machine hit on the run too?

It can hit back the ball as if it did. If not with one machine, we should go with 2 machines, networked and synchronized, one on the FH, other on BH.

Now that is a real good idea

IvanYentl
06-09-2008, 04:57 AM
Ball machine.



Thanks Coach

rocket
06-09-2008, 05:05 AM
The problem was that Federer had a mental, emotional and psychological breakdown after 3 years of being so dominant yet being dominated by one man on one surface. In MC and Hamburg he showed that (on his worst surface) he could dominate Nadal (who might become the best claycourter ever) for patches and therefore, while he was always going to lose, the manner of it was because he finally didn't believe he could win and just collapsed. Sad to see.

Absolute perfect summary of the Fed factor.

Morrissey
06-09-2008, 05:17 AM
It can hit back the ball as if it did. If not with one machine, we should go with 2 machines, networked and synchronized, one on the FH, other on BH.

Now that is a real good idea

Now you just have to have Fed learn to handle those high balls and hit winners off them regularly. In other words, don't you get it by now? Fed simply can't handle it, it's his weak point and Fed will never be able to improve that weak spot drastically, especially as he's getting older. So give it up dude, it ain't gonna happen.

sureshs
06-09-2008, 05:39 AM
Now you just have to have Fed learn to handle those high balls and hit winners off them regularly. In other words, don't you get it by now? Fed simply can't handle it, it's his weak point and Fed will never be able to improve that weak spot drastically, especially as he's getting older. So give it up dude, it ain't gonna happen.

He can at least avoid getting bageled.

He has improved his BH considerably because of Nadal, and that has helped him against other players. Why can't he extend it further by practising against a ball machine which simulates Nadal? In fact, the ball machine can hit with more pace and spin than Nadal. If Federer continues to hit against players who have less spin and bounce, he is never going to get a good look at Nadal-like shots.

loner1984
06-09-2008, 07:00 AM
The problem was that Federer had a mental, emotional and psychological breakdown after 3 years of being so dominant yet being dominated by one man on one surface. In MC and Hamburg he showed that (on his worst surface) he could dominate Nadal (who might become the best claycourter ever) for patches and therefore, while he was always going to lose, the manner of it was because he finally didn't believe he could win and just collapsed. Sad to see.

Federer like Superman has his Kryptonite...it comes in the form of Rafa Nadal. It's kinda cool that he was wearing green too. You know like green Rafa Kryptonite.

daddy
06-09-2008, 07:02 AM
^^ If the machine ( deus ex machina ) was not 8.000$$ and if I had court in my backyard. Then again, I dont have to face Nadal anyways.

loner1984
06-09-2008, 07:07 AM
^^ If the machine ( deus ex machina ) was not 8.000$$ and if I had court in my backyard. Then again, I dont have to face Nadal anyways.

People can just come into my store and hit against this machine for free.
As long as you are demo-ing a racquet and not just practicing. Well...some people do actually come in just to practice.

daddy
06-09-2008, 07:09 AM
People can just come into my store and hit against this machine for free.
As long as you are demo-ing a racquet and not just practicing. Well...some people do actually come in just to practice.

I can not pay the ticket and fly 10 hours just to hit. Id rather hit against the wall here.

loner1984
06-09-2008, 07:39 AM
^^ Too bad dad. I'm assuming you live in the far east or Europe maybe?

daddy
06-09-2008, 07:40 AM
^^ Too bad dad. I'm assuming you live in the far east or Europe maybe?

You are assuming correctly. ;)

fgzhu88
06-09-2008, 09:31 AM
that might have helped Fed in 2006, when Nadal only moonballed. But Nadal's much better now, at least @ this year's RG

In D Zone
06-09-2008, 10:11 AM
Since no one else can generate the spin/ kick that can come close to Nadal's. Fed should have tried training with the Sam Robot.

http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view496276.html

loner1984
06-09-2008, 08:20 PM
Wow!! That SAM machine looks insane. It reminds me of the mean man-killing robots on that movie A.I. Sorta like "you lose against SAM, you die."

In D Zone
06-09-2008, 09:19 PM
Wow!! That SAM machine looks insane. It reminds me of the mean man-killing robots on that movie A.I. Sorta like "you lose against SAM, you die."

Well - Fed betta cough up some $28K fast, I think its being discontinued.