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View Full Version : Why does Andy lose speed on his serve in the 5th set.


TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-11-2008, 11:12 AM
I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.

JRstriker12
06-11-2008, 11:15 AM
I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.

Could it be that he looses speed because he's tired?

Try running around and serving 100+ mph serves for 3-4 hours - takes alot of energy. Even the most fit tennis players have some fatigue in a 5-setter.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-11-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes, but how come Sampras never loses the speed? Also, last year Federer was serving just as hard in the 5th set in the final against Nadal as he was in the first. It must be something else.

JRstriker12
06-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Yes, but how come Sampras never loses the speed? Also, last year Federer was serving just as hard in the 5th set in the final against Nadal as he was in the first. It must be something else.

Fed does not serve nearly as hard as Roddick does. Not even close.

I would even dare say that Roddick serves harder than Sampras. Sampras served hard and probably had the deadliest second serve in history, but he never even held the record for fastest serve in his time.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2004-02-06-roddick-record_x.htm

Fastest serves

The fastest recorded serves in tennis history:

Andy Roddick, U.S., 150 mph, 2004 Davis Cup
Andy Roddick, U.S., 149 mph, 2003 Queen's Club
Greg Rusedski, Britain, 149 mph, 1998 Indian Wells
Taylor Dent, U.S., 144 mph, 2001 Wimbledon
Mark Philippoussis, Australia, 142.3 mph, 1997 Dusseldorf
Gilles Elseneer, Belgium, 140 mph, 2003 Basel
Julian Alonso, Spain, 140 mph, 1997 Long Island

Stchamps
06-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Yes, but how come Sampras never loses the speed? Also, last year Federer was serving just as hard in the 5th set in the final against Nadal as he was in the first. It must be something else.

Why can't I be a professional tennis player?

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-11-2008, 11:50 AM
because you suk?

Forehand Forever
06-11-2008, 11:54 AM
Fed does not serve nearly as hard as Roddick does. Not even close.

I would even dare say that Roddick serves harder than Sampras. Sampras served hard and probably had the deadliest second serve in history, but he never even held the record for fastest serve in his time.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2004-02-06-roddick-record_x.htm

Fastest serves

The fastest recorded serves in tennis history:

Andy Roddick, U.S., 150 mph, 2004 Davis Cup
Andy Roddick, U.S., 149 mph, 2003 Queen's Club
Greg Rusedski, Britain, 149 mph, 1998 Indian Wells
Taylor Dent, U.S., 144 mph, 2001 Wimbledon
Mark Philippoussis, Australia, 142.3 mph, 1997 Dusseldorf
Gilles Elseneer, Belgium, 140 mph, 2003 Basel
Julian Alonso, Spain, 140 mph, 1997 Long Island


Andy's gotten 155 mph.

veroniquem
06-11-2008, 01:29 PM
I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.
There is absolutely no way Roddick will win Wimbledon this year, he doesn't have the consistency or the mental and he's just back from injury. You're dreaming!

bladepdb
06-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Yes, but how come Sampras never loses the speed? Also, last year Federer was serving just as hard in the 5th set in the final against Nadal as he was in the first. It must be something else.

It must be the fact that Roddick serves much harder than either Sampras or Federer. Federer probably averages in the 110s-120s, and Sampras probably averaged in the 120s. Roddick averages in the 130s, frequently serving 140s during a "normal" game.

Let's also consider the fact that Sampras served-and-volleyed a lot, meaning his biggest movement was up to the net. He did not chase balls from the baseline and hit a heavy forehand like Roddick does.**(Read note) Roddick puts just as much power into his forehands as he does his serves. That adds to fatiguing faster.

And on the Federer note, Federer is a very lean player and he doesn't average that tremendously. Plus, he doesn't "gun" his second serves as much (just the occassional to throw his opponent off). He uses more kick on his serves than he does sheer power.

It's basic mechanics. The more force you put on every shot, the more it takes out of you. What happens when your energy is taken out of you for 3+ hours in a 5-set match? You have less energy for that 5th set. Hence, you're tired.

**Note: Before anyone starts firing away at me that I'm insulting Sampras by not giving him credit for his baseline game, you're wrong. I do not deny Sampras's court abilities (he obviously had to be able to play proficiently all around to get to the level he got to). However, I was making a point that Sampras does not play at the baseline hitting a heavy forehand AS MUCH AS Roddick does. Baselining requires more running left and right than serve-and-volleying, which contributes to faster fatigue.

wangs78
06-11-2008, 02:47 PM
I agree with Blade's comments.

shwetty[tennis]balls
06-11-2008, 03:19 PM
I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.
Wow, are you serious? Do they not teach common sense and logic in school these days. Why does a driver fall asleep behind the whell? Why does a pitcher get relieved by another pitcher in late innings? You have got to be kidding! Really a stupid question. I'm blown away by the fact that you even asked this! The adage that there are no stupid questions is constantly being challenged with the likes of these posts. Why don't you serve 120-130+ mph over the course of 3 hours and see if you can't keep your serves top speed, Einstein!

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 03:22 PM
Who gives a **** about his fastball.The guy aint winning anything.

iamke55
06-11-2008, 03:35 PM
It's funny how the people with the most posts are all trolls, annoying, and bad at tennis.

Well, apart from the teaching pros who give helpful insight in the Tennis Instruction forum.

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Hey iam, your the biggest one here.Your post dont make any sense.Your a Fed basher.

BeHappy
06-11-2008, 05:13 PM
It must be the fact that Roddick serves much harder than either Sampras or Federer. Federer probably averages in the 110s-120s, and Sampras probably averaged in the 120s. Roddick averages in the 130s, frequently serving 140s during a "normal" game.

Let's also consider the fact that Sampras served-and-volleyed a lot, meaning his biggest movement was up to the net. He did not chase balls from the baseline and hit a heavy forehand like Roddick does.**(Read note) Roddick puts just as much power into his forehands as he does his serves. That adds to fatiguing faster.

And on the Federer note, Federer is a very lean player and he doesn't average that tremendously. Plus, he doesn't "gun" his second serves as much (just the occassional to throw his opponent off). He uses more kick on his serves than he does sheer power.

It's basic mechanics. The more force you put on every shot, the more it takes out of you. What happens when your energy is taken out of you for 3+ hours in a 5-set match? You have less energy for that 5th set. Hence, you're tired.

**Note: Before anyone starts firing away at me that I'm insulting Sampras by not giving him credit for his baseline game, you're wrong. I do not deny Sampras's court abilities (he obviously had to be able to play proficiently all around to get to the level he got to). However, I was making a point that Sampras does not play at the baseline hitting a heavy forehand AS MUCH AS Roddick does. Baselining requires more running left and right than serve-and-volleying, which contributes to faster fatigue.

I would have thought that you are right, that Roddicks new pusher game, where 20 shot rallies are the norm), is much more energy sapping than his old power game, where rallies usually consited of about 4 shots max.

Why don't you check out Roddicks 2004 final with Fed in Wimbledon and see if his service speed dropped off?, if not, that would prove your theory.

Andres
06-11-2008, 05:54 PM
Fed does not serve nearly as hard as Roddick does. Not even close.

I would even dare say that Roddick serves harder than Sampras. Sampras served hard and probably had the deadliest second serve in history, but he never even held the record for fastest serve in his time.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2004-02-06-roddick-record_x.htm

Fastest serves

The fastest recorded serves in tennis history:

Andy Roddick, U.S., 150 mph, 2004 Davis Cup
Andy Roddick, U.S., 149 mph, 2003 Queen's Club
Greg Rusedski, Britain, 149 mph, 1998 Indian Wells
Taylor Dent, U.S., 144 mph, 2001 Wimbledon
Mark Philippoussis, Australia, 142.3 mph, 1997 Dusseldorf
Gilles Elseneer, Belgium, 140 mph, 2003 Basel
Julian Alonso, Spain, 140 mph, 1997 Long Island
That's extremely out-dated and un-accurate. I'm keeping service speed records for quite some time now. Lemme find my charts and be right back ;)

jmsx521
06-11-2008, 05:57 PM
Roddick does serve harder than Sampras on consistent basis... come-on tennis fans, it's not that difficult to recognize that. Sampras' serve however was more fluid than Roddick's... in addition to his whole game as well. So let's say both are at the 3rd hour in a 5th set: By that time Roddick's less-fluid (more rigid) game would have burned more energy than Sampras. It's not a whole lot different than aerodynamics in cars: A car that is less aerodynamic requires the engine to work harder because of the bigger drag created. More fluid serves require less energy...no!? Roddick's ball, not only on the serve but the ground-strokes as well, is more muscled than fluid.

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 06:01 PM
Roddick's serve would be great if he was winning but he is not.

bladepdb
06-11-2008, 06:04 PM
I would have thought that you are right, that Roddicks new pusher game, where 20 shot rallies are the norm), is much more energy sapping than his old power game, where rallies usually consited of about 4 shots max.

Why don't you check out Roddicks 2004 final with Fed in Wimbledon and see if his service speed dropped off?, if not, that would prove your theory.

Good point. Four years ago though he was 22. He's seen much more wear and tear since then. I hope that's a valid point; it is certainly a "go-to" argument for me since you're right that that match does disprove my generalization.

Ryoma Kun
06-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Just a note about fed and many other pros...

most of the time they are not serving 100%. Usually 75-80% to maintain good consistency.

Rod-Dick on the other hand relies heavily on his serve and tries to muscle it as hard as he can, thus fatiguing his serving muscles faster.

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 06:10 PM
Good point.The guy tries to hit it as far as he can.The one thing also is that his placement sucks.

Andres
06-11-2008, 06:33 PM
That's extremely out-dated and un-accurate. I'm keeping service speed records for quite some time now. Lemme find my charts and be right back ;)
Top10 fastest servers of all time

1) Andy Roddick (USA) 155 mph
2) Chris Guccione (AUS) 154.10 mph
3) Ivo Karlovic (CRO) 153 mph
3) Illia Bozoljac (SRB) 153 mph
3) Taylor Dent (USA) 153 mph
6) John Isner (USA) 151 mph
7) Greg Rusedski (GBR) 149 mph
8) Marat Safin (RUS) 147.30 mph
9) Gael Monfils (FRA) 146 mph
10) Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) 145 mph

There you go :)

BeHappy
06-11-2008, 06:36 PM
Top10 fastest servers of all time

1) Andy Roddick (USA) 155 mph
2) Chris Guccione (AUS) 154.10 mph
3) Ivo Karlovic (CRO) 153 mph
3) Illia Bozoljac (SRB) 153 mph
3) Taylor Dent (USA) 153 mph
6) John Isner (USA) 151 mph
7) Greg Rusedski (GBR) 149 mph
8) Marat Safin (RUS) 147.30 mph
9) Gael Monfils (FRA) 146 mph
10) Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) 145 mph

There you go :)

andy murray has served 145mph too.
I think dr Ivo will break Roddicks record on championship point in wimbledon, by about 15mph.




edit:When did Safin hit 147mph?????

he's usually 125-135 tops.

Andres
06-11-2008, 06:39 PM
andy murray has served 145mph too.
I think dr Ivo will break Roddicks record on championship point in wimbledon, by about 15mph.




edit:When did Safin hit 147mph?????

he's usually 125-135 tops.
Davis Cup. Saw him with my own eyes. Served three 140+ in that match: 141, 144 and 147 at last.

I saw Murray's 145 serve and looked like a gun malfunction, like Safin's 160 mph serve two years ago.

BeHappy
06-11-2008, 06:44 PM
Davis Cup. Saw him with my own eyes. Served three 140+ in that match: 141, 144 and 147 at last.

I saw Murray's 145 serve and looked like a gun malfunction, like Safin's 160 mph serve two years ago.

I think davis cup guns are rigged.Everybody seems to serve their fastest ever there.I think All of Roddicks records were hit in Davis Cup.Same with Grand slam guns, (see Roland Garros for example).

Andres
06-11-2008, 06:48 PM
I think davis cup guns are rigged.Everybody seems to serve their fastest ever there.I think All of Roddicks records were hit in Davis Cup.Same with Grand slam guns, (see Roland Garros for example).
That's cause Getronics guns are probably the most accurate of them all.

purple-n-gold
06-11-2008, 06:50 PM
It must be the fact that Roddick serves much harder than either Sampras or Federer. Federer probably averages in the 110s-120s, and Sampras probably averaged in the 120s. Roddick averages in the 130s, frequently serving 140s during a "normal" game.

Let's also consider the fact that Sampras served-and-volleyed a lot, meaning his biggest movement was up to the net. He did not chase balls from the baseline and hit a heavy forehand like Roddick does.**(Read note) Roddick puts just as much power into his forehands as he does his serves. That adds to fatiguing faster.

And on the Federer note, Federer is a very lean player and he doesn't average that tremendously. Plus, he doesn't "gun" his second serves as much (just the occassional to throw his opponent off). He uses more kick on his serves than he does sheer power.

It's basic mechanics. The more force you put on every shot, the more it takes out of you. What happens when your energy is taken out of you for 3+ hours in a 5-set match? You have less energy for that 5th set. Hence, you're tired.

**Note: Before anyone starts firing away at me that I'm insulting Sampras by not giving him credit for his baseline game, you're wrong. I do not deny Sampras's court abilities (he obviously had to be able to play proficiently all around to get to the level he got to). However, I was making a point that Sampras does not play at the baseline hitting a heavy forehand AS MUCH AS Roddick does. Baselining requires more running left and right than serve-and-volleying, which contributes to faster fatigue.

With the emphasis on mechanics,Sampras and Fed much more fluid motions and Rod very explosive thus more tiresome over the course of a long match.

BeHappy
06-11-2008, 07:01 PM
That's cause Getronics guns are probably the most accurate of them all.

but if they give a higher mph for serves than the normal, then how can we say someone has broken the record?,
or hit their fastet ever serve?

andyroddick1
06-11-2008, 07:09 PM
Roddick was disheartened in the match against Gasquet and was losing his focus. He has played some great five sets though. He has gone to 17- 15 and 21- 19 before.

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 07:09 PM
Roddick would kill to have Sampras's serve.

DashaandSafin
06-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Who gives a **** about his fastball.The guy aint winning anything.

Hey iam, your the biggest one here.Your post dont make any sense.Your a Fed basher.

Roddick's serve would be great if he was winning but he is not.

Good point.The guy tries to hit it as far as he can.The one thing also is that his placement sucks.

Roddick would kill to have Sampras's serve.


Wow. Just because you're legend status doesn't mean you can go trolling about. Seriously this is the definition of a troll. The sh*t you're spewing out has nothing to do with the thread. You should know better by now being here 3 years. If you want to troll try MTF.

ACE of Hearts
06-11-2008, 07:23 PM
Thats not being a troll, its stating the facts.What has Roddick doned?He is a good player but i am trying to state the obvious here.Quit telling me what i should post.I will assure u that i am not the biggest Roddick fan because he is a jerk on the court but i respect the guy but to me he is like the rest of the players in the atp after Federer, Nadal and Djoker.

MariaS
06-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Everyone knows that when you're tired, it's the first thing to go....your serve that is. :-|

tennis_hand
06-11-2008, 07:40 PM
the motion that Roddick serves tires the arm much more than the proper motion that Sampras and Federer have.

Roddick uses so much of his arm that by 5th set, his arm can't swing that fast any more and will double fault sometimes and lose speed.

ndtennis
06-11-2008, 08:13 PM
I believe Andy will win Wimbledon this year, but he has to overome losing speed on his serve. It seems the longer the match goes, the more speed he loses. This was evident in the Gasquet match, as he served a lot faster in the 3rd than 5th set. He must solve this problem somehow before Wimby.

Wouldn't you???

samster
06-12-2008, 06:49 AM
I give this thread 1 star out of 5.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-12-2008, 10:41 AM
hey ace of hearts, what have you done? Roddick has done more than you'll ever do. Why don't go to the "Federer Rules" forum instead, idiot.

*****wipe.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 11:04 AM
Shut up taco ****.U should have the last 4 words in Roddick's last name.Rod-dick is irrevelent just like all your Rod-dick post.

fluffy Beaver
06-12-2008, 11:05 AM
Thats not being a troll, its stating the facts.What has Roddick doned?He is a good player but i am trying to state the obvious here.Quit telling me what i should post.I will assure u that i am not the biggest Roddick fan because he is a jerk on the court but i respect the guy but to me he is like the rest of the players in the atp after Federer, Nadal and Djoker.

You should add this one to the list too DashaandSafin.

He just like the rest of of the players after the atp? He did beat all 3 of them this year.... 2 even consecutively.

fluffy Beaver
06-12-2008, 11:06 AM
Shut up taco ****.U should have the last 4 words in Roddick's last name.Rod-dick is irrevelent just like all your Rod-dick post.

Add this one tooooooooooo.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 11:09 AM
Like i am gonna listen to a guy who has fluffy as his SN,lol.

Mansewerz
06-12-2008, 12:24 PM
Maybe you don't realize but serving consistently in the upper 130s and 140s takes a huge toll on his body. I'd be surprised if he could even get it into the 140s as usual considering his recent shoulder injury.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Andy has served up to 155 mph, but he has even stated that he now prefers placement over power on his serve. This has helped him construct points better this year, and will be vital for him to go far in two weeks.

ACE of Hearts, it's time you get some friends buddy. Now go cry in a corner you irrevelant little tool.

PS- Hope you loved the June 8th Fed Massacre. More is still to come.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 02:04 PM
Hey taco,go suck Andy.I am not gonna get into a discussion with a little boy.Just post something thats revelant.That is all.

coloskier
06-12-2008, 02:04 PM
Roddick's serve would be great if he was winning but he is not.

Actually, this is his best year since 2004, so far.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Why are you responding on my thread then? As I stated before, you are better suited to the Federer forums. If you don't have anything constructive to add then get off!

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Shut up.Your post are irrevelent.Get off these boards.

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-12-2008, 02:45 PM
arrogant tool........ i'm not surprised that your the biggest joke on these forums. Go reply at another thread you headcase.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 03:00 PM
Your such an a-hole.I wished u got kicked off these boards.I will never waste my time again on u, u a-hole.

daddy
06-12-2008, 03:27 PM
One word - stamina. You can not keep hiting the 150+ miles all day long. Im exausted after a six deuces on my serve, imagine a 5 setter with a lot of tight games on your serve, when you heavily depend on it ?

iamke55
06-12-2008, 03:31 PM
Roddick would kill to have Sampras's serve.

Other way around. Federer also desperately wants either of those serves.

Edit: how is this guy not banned yet? He makes BP and Simon Cowell look smart.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 03:58 PM
Iamke, your the worse troll here.U should be banned with your 416 post.I am a legend and you should be called troll under your semi-pro

Arbartrator
06-12-2008, 04:06 PM
yay go roddick

MasterBruceTennis
06-12-2008, 05:39 PM
It takes a lot more than a good serve to win a match. I remember it was quite an impressive show when Joachim Johansson aced Andre Agassi 51 times in the 4th round of the 2005 Australian Open. But, interestingly, Johansson still lost the match to Agassi in four sets.

In addition, Roddick's serving rhythm can never be able to execute s-n-v. Not to mention his pro-am approaching shot and slow reflex at the net...sorry!

TacoBellBorderBowl1946
06-12-2008, 06:11 PM
People keep on saying Roddick is just a serve, but you don't win a grand slam and go to multiple finals without having a solid ground game. Look at what Karlovic has done, best serve in the game, but he can't back it up with his strokes. So far Andy has looked good at Queens, and will improve as the effects of his injury wear down.

ACE of Hearts
06-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Hey taco, lets squash it?ok?I play tennis like everyone here, i dont wanna keep bashing u, lets leave it at that.