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Bronc10is
06-14-2008, 06:14 PM
The past week, I have been hitting with the Microgel Prestige MP, and I am starting to get tennis elbow. Now, the racket is not more stiff or heavier than my other frames, the pure storm tour...what would be causing the pain? could it be the strings in it?

ryanq
06-14-2008, 06:21 PM
swingweight?

Kolabear14
06-14-2008, 06:26 PM
i just changed strings and it started giving me elbow pain
if you tried a softer string it could go away
it is best to take away variable at a time
i usually start with strings

bladepdb
06-14-2008, 06:32 PM
swingweight?

In fact, the PST has a higher swingweight than the MP. So that's not the case. They're both (approximately) equally stiff as well, so that can't be the case either. They're also the same (approximately) weight.

Strings are a good lead. That could be it, but I didn't see a mention of whether it's the same string or not. If it is different, that is indeed a good place to start!

But more importantly I think it is the stirngbed itself. The PST has a 16 x 20 stringbed whereas the MP is 18 x 20. The more closed stringbed makes it harder to generate power, requiring you to exert more to generate the same power as you would with a 16 x 20.

ryanq
06-14-2008, 06:49 PM
i thought it would be the swingweight. He's used to higher SW. assuming he has 1 HBH, he can snap his elbow faster with the same power he's been using.?. So yeah... Now i know, thanks.

Bronc10is
06-14-2008, 07:10 PM
well, there is about 1 or 2 grams of lead tape...should I remove that also? the strings i have on my pure storm tours are both full babolat polys, the strings on the prestige is a hybrid of prince pro blend and some black string that the seller called "kevlar" string...and by the way..i hit a kind of eastern forehand, and two handed backhand, so it is not due to a one handed backhand, and my serve is the same if not more of an easy motion with the prestige.....i would really love to fix the problem and still use the prestige, i think i found my racket.

bladepdb
06-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Well there's your problem.

Not the lead weight. 2 grams is squat. I just cannot possibly conceive how 2 grams of lead will hurt a player, especially (as I assume) one that has been playing with an established game.

The stringjob, not good! Not the Prince, either. The Kevlar. Kevlar string is the devil! It is the harshest string you can possibly play with. It provides hardly any feel, spin, power, and is designed strictly for durability. The only players who should even touch Kevlar are those who break strings like once every other game. No offense meant if you already knew this, but Kevlar is not a brand but a type of material. They use it in bulletproof vests to give you an idea of why it should not be played with ;)

Yeah I'm convinced the Kevlar string is the reason for the pain. Try changing up the stringjob with ANYTHING other than Kevlar (preferably the same stringjob as the PST so you can get an idea of whether or not it truly is the strings that are the problem) and see if the pain persists. If it does, the next reason might be the 18 20 pattern. If not, problem solved!

Seriously Kevlar is that bad. I am surprised it's still on the market. I played with it once. After one game, I had it immediately restrung.

Bronc10is
06-14-2008, 07:42 PM
I will definitely get the string cut out and restrung ASAP, I used to play with the Ti. Radical from like 6th grade until 9th grade (I am a Junior in college), so I have played with 18x20's before. In the meantime, this elbow is hurting..I am probably going to take a week or two off just as a precaution, my season starts in September so I can afford to take off some time. Thank you for the help, and if anyone else has an opinion about it or agrees with bladepdb then go ahead, I will check the post again.

bladepdb
06-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Good luck with your new string, hopefully it works out better! I think I may have embellished the anti-Kevlar comments -- I forgot to note that you had it as a hybrid. Granted, I still feel it may be the source for the elbow, just wanted to note that the purpose of the Kevlar might have been to add durability to the Prince string. However, if you haven't played with Kevlar before I don't doubt that it will be hard to play with, even if it is just as a hybrid (especially in the mains, but again, if it's in the stringbed anywhere it'll be hurtin' lol).

EDIT: I just saw the Prince Pro Blend and saw the syn gut + Kevlar combo. I'm not too familiar with Prince string except the Syn Gut w/ Duraflex and the TW page confirms that it is a very "firm" feeling combo designed for frequent string breakers and offering the best durability. I think that all but confirms my earlier comments, and going for a softer hybrid will help your arm tremendously!

Bronc10is
06-14-2008, 08:08 PM
thank you...any recommendations on how to treat this? i hit with the racket for maybe...7 hours this past week? and it doesnt hurt to do anything normal, but like shaking my arm and turning my elbow clockwise hurts. i am taking ibuprofen and icing a little.

bladepdb
06-14-2008, 08:23 PM
Icing and relaxing should take care of it in a few days, especially if you're a junior level college player. Your recovery time ought to be fast. Ibuprofen or any painkiller for that matter doesn't "treat" the elbow but simply tells your brain the pain isn't there. Try to use an elbow support if you have one on hand or tape it up. Don't go out and buy a $15 elbow support though since this should only be a temporary thing (unless you really want to I suppose).

Bronc10is
06-14-2008, 08:30 PM
thanks bladepdb...you have been a great help, ill post ont his thread how the change of strings works.

YourAverageJoe
06-16-2008, 05:28 PM
I was looking at this post and I want to get a Wilson Ksix-one tour 90 but I am a little afraid because everybody says it will hurt me. I want soft strings but is Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour 16 gauge soft strings? I am a 3.0 player and love the tour but I don't know if it will hurt me...please help!

Il Mostro
06-16-2008, 06:10 PM
Icing and relaxing should take care of it in a few days, especially if you're a junior level college player. Your recovery time ought to be fast. Ibuprofen or any painkiller for that matter doesn't "treat" the elbow but simply tells your brain the pain isn't there. Try to use an elbow support if you have one on hand or tape it up. Don't go out and buy a $15 elbow support though since this should only be a temporary thing (unless you really want to I suppose).

Ibuprofen is an effective anti-inflammatory which can help greatly.

bertrevert
06-16-2008, 06:58 PM
Strings almost certainly in this case - Kevlar is super tough, and the soft tissue in your elbow is not.

Steve Huff
06-16-2008, 07:06 PM
Try some cream called Capsazin. It's will feel like an instant warm up. It's about $10/tube, but you don't need much. Don't rub your eyes or grab anything you don't want to burn after rubbing it into your elbow. It kept me playing through tennis elbow. I still use it on my knees, shoulder and elbow before I play.

Il Mostro
06-16-2008, 07:27 PM
Try some cream called Capsazin. It's will feel like an instant warm up. It's about $10/tube, but you don't need much. Don't rub your eyes or grab anything you don't want to burn after rubbing it into your elbow. It kept me playing through tennis elbow. I still use it on my knees, shoulder and elbow before I play.

Does this stuff smell? And I am guessing by the name that is has capsicum as one of the active ingredients. Sounds like it might be better than good old Theragesic.

bladepdb
06-22-2008, 03:03 PM
thanks bladepdb...you have been a great help, ill post ont his thread how the change of strings works.

Any word on this yet?

Bronc10is
06-22-2008, 03:14 PM
well i took a week off and my elbow feels 100% again, I havent restrung the racket yet.

KFwinds
06-22-2008, 08:13 PM
19 posts and no one has yet suggested that the OP might have poor mechanics? You can blame your racquet and your strings and tension, but those factors only contribute to TE when there is something wrong with stroke mechanics. 100% of the time.

Bronc10is
06-22-2008, 08:19 PM
maybe because i have never gotten tennis elbow before, and hitting 5 hours with this one racket gave me pain that never occured before.

bladepdb
06-22-2008, 09:30 PM
19 posts and no one has yet suggested that the OP might have poor mechanics? You can blame your racquet and your strings and tension, but those factors only contribute to TE when there is something wrong with stroke mechanics. 100% of the time.

If you are to assume he is being accurate when he says he's a college junior hitting since 6th grade, poor mechanics cannot be the factor if the pain is only sudden.

BreakPoint
06-23-2008, 12:01 AM
19 posts and no one has yet suggested that the OP might have poor mechanics? You can blame your racquet and your strings and tension, but those factors only contribute to TE when there is something wrong with stroke mechanics. 100% of the time.
But if it was poor mechanics, he would have had tennis elbow before and not just with this one racquet.

When I got TE a few years ago, the culprit was definitely the racquet as I have very good mechanics. I switched racquets and I never got TE again. Of course, my mechanics remained exactly the same.

BTW, to the OP, a lighter racquet will be worse for your elbow than a heavier one in most cases, not the other way around.

pmerk34
06-23-2008, 07:37 AM
19 posts and no one has yet suggested that the OP might have poor mechanics? You can blame your racquet and your strings and tension, but those factors only contribute to TE when there is something wrong with stroke mechanics. 100% of the time.


Kevlar strings are arm wreckers

pmerk34
06-23-2008, 07:43 AM
maybe because i have never gotten tennis elbow before, and hitting 5 hours with this one racket gave me pain that never occured before.


Same thing happened to me with those awful Prince Endurance Kevlar Strings. I had them cut immediately took a few weeks off, went back to synthetic and my arm was fine after that.

TheJRK
06-23-2008, 10:06 AM
I will definitely get the string cut out and restrung ASAP, I used to play with the Ti. Radical from like 6th grade until 9th grade (I am a Junior in college), so I have played with 18x20's before. In the meantime, this elbow is hurting..I am probably going to take a week or two off just as a precaution, my season starts in September so I can afford to take off some time. Thank you for the help, and if anyone else has an opinion about it or agrees with bladepdb then go ahead, I will check the post again.

It's really hard to tell sometimes what is causing the pain, since there could be a lot of different factors.

Coincidentally I also played with the Ti Rad (full ALU @ 62lbs) for many years, up until a few months ago when I demo'd the MG Prestige Pro and then decided to buy a few (again strung with ALU at 57 lbs). After about 3 days (not consecutively) of hitting with it, my arm started killing me. I couldn't even hold the racket.

Visit the doc - she tells me severe tendonitis, no playing tennis (or anything else) for at least 2 months. Now I'm back to hitting with the MG Pro's (VS gut @ 57 lbs) and no pain at all.

Was it the strings? The new racket? Maybe, maybe not. Technique seems more likely. Maybe, after hitting with an OS racket for the first 20 years and then switching to a smaller size head, something was a little thrown off in my swing. Even just a "small" change to my technique (i.e. catching the ball half a second later) could potentially have lead to harmful effects on my arm.

Either way, good luck with the arm.

KFwinds
06-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Wait a sec - raise your hand if you posted on this thread and you are a professional (earn your living playing - not teaching) tennis player...

No one? Ok, then by definition we ALL have some flaws in our mechanics (even you, BP). Sometimes the equipment we use allows us to mask those flaws, and sometimes it doesn't - but it's still a flaw in mechanics that causes TE. Believe what you would like; it's a fact.

KFwinds
06-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Kevlar strings are arm wreckers

only if your mechanics are flawed

pmerk34
06-23-2008, 08:26 PM
only if your mechanics are flawed

Who cares, the minute I got rid of them the arm pain went away. My flawed mechanics caused no arm problems with the synthetic gut I used before that awful pro blend or endurance or whatever Prince was calling that kevlar string at the time.

KFwinds
06-23-2008, 08:26 PM
If you are to assume he is being accurate when he says he's a college junior hitting since 6th grade, poor mechanics cannot be the factor if the pain is only sudden.

Why not? There are tour level players that have flaws in their mechanics...

BreakPoint
06-23-2008, 08:52 PM
Wait a sec - raise your hand if you posted on this thread and you are a professional (earn your living playing - not teaching) tennis player...

No one? Ok, then by definition we ALL have some flaws in our mechanics (even you, BP). Sometimes the equipment we use allows us to mask those flaws, and sometimes it doesn't - but it's still a flaw in mechanics that causes TE. Believe what you would like; it's a fact.
Then why do most pros also get tennis elbow? Roddick, Krajicek, Gasquet, even Sampras all have had TE.

How can you use the same exact mechanics with two different racquets and one gives you TE while the other doesn't and then claim that it's not the racquet that gave you the TE? :confused:

That's like saying that you have two pairs of different shoes - one gives you great traction and support and no problems whatsoever while the other makes you slip and slide and causes you to roll your ankle repeatedly and gave you plantar fasciitis, yet you claim it wasn't the shoe but it was your poor footwork? :-?

BreakPoint
06-23-2008, 08:56 PM
Why not? There are tour level players that have flaws in their mechanics...
By your definition, no players have flawless mechanics, right? If so, then if certain racquets give us TE while other do not, then it's the racquets fault since you can avoid TE by merely changing racquets. That's a lot easier than changing your mechanics, wouldn't you say?

pmerk34
06-24-2008, 05:58 AM
If "trolling" means calling out faulty logic, then yes, I guess I'm guilty of that...

Faulty logic is just blithly throwing out "mechanics" where in this case it's because he changed equipment. He's not coming back after a few years off and his arm isn't used to it and/or his mechanics changed because he just came back from not playing. He plays all the time without a problem until he changed his equipment to a type of string which is known to be very harsh no matter how great a player you may be.

BreakPoint
06-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits, is it? I've answered those questions in previous posts.
And common sense isn't one of your strong suits, is it?

If one racquet gives you TE and 10 others do not, then obviously it was that one racquet that gave you the TE because your mechanics are the same. It doesn't matter what your mechanics are because those mechanics don't give you TE unless you use the wrong racquet. And, yes, you can get TE with the wrong racquet even if you have the world's most perfect mechanics. Try a 29", 9 oz., RA 75, 80 sq. in. racquet strung with Kevlar or poly at 90 lbs and hit a million hard topspin 1HBH's at the age of 60 with it and I can almost guarantee you'll get TE even if you have perfect mechanics.

nalk7
06-24-2008, 11:35 AM
And common sense isn't one of your strong suits, is it?

If one racquet gives you TE and 10 others do not, then obviously it was that one racquet that gave you the TE because your mechanics are the same. It doesn't matter what your mechanics are because those mechanics don't give you TE unless you use the wrong racquet. And, yes, you can get TE with the wrong racquet even if you have the world's most perfect mechanics. Try a 29", 9 oz., RA 75, 80 sq. in. racquet strung with Kevlar or poly at 90 lbs and hit a million hard topspin 1HBH's at the age of 60 with it and I can almost guarantee you'll get TE even if you have perfect mechanics.

What about if you guys are both right? what if the racquet's weight or balance makes you change your stroke? and therefore causing TE? yo know, like when you try out a lighter racquet and your swing is too fast you end up shanking the ball. And you have to modify your stroke to be able to hit it, maybe that small modification causes TE?
its just a guess, anyways the racquet is the catalyst and causes the problem

sureshs
06-24-2008, 12:34 PM
What players need to understand is that different people react differently to the same racquet. The harmful vibrations from impact have certain frequencies, and if they interact with the natural frequencies of the arm, which depend on size, bone composition, etc, the effects can be amplified or muted.

Steve Huff
06-24-2008, 01:44 PM
Any time you make a change, you will probably feel a little pain for a short period of time, mostly due to you muscles making fine adjustments that you may or may not be conscious of. If it persists for more than a few weeks, then you can start blaming the racket/setup. I wouldn't be too concerned yet.

pmerk34
06-24-2008, 04:28 PM
Any time you make a change, you will probably feel a little pain for a short period of time, mostly due to you muscles making fine adjustments that you may or may not be conscious of. If it persists for more than a few weeks, then you can start blaming the racket/setup. I wouldn't be too concerned yet.


When I used the Kevlar strings my arm went on fire after about 5 hours of total playing time and I mean on fire. Bye byethose strings went and thankfully my TE went away just as fast. Seriously I could barely lift the racquet.

Micky
06-24-2008, 07:20 PM
I have been playing with my APDC for at least nine months or more and the Penn balls coming to Bolivia have changed. They are heavier, harder and lousier. They are printed as clay court balls but they feel like rocks. Then my club bought some cheap Dunlop all court balls and are even worse than the Penns. The point in case is that my elbow was dying due to the use of these balls. I changed from hybrid strings to full syn gut and still have some pain. But I can take the pain now. It was not the racquet. It was not the strings. It is the f... balls.

ledor
06-27-2008, 07:15 AM
I changed from a painful pre-luxilon Gosen Poly to multi to nat. gut. I had wrist and mid to upper arm problems for 3 months. Proper technique with a coach, weight training and stretching at the gym helped fix my problems.