PDA

View Full Version : Toe jamming


nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 05:47 AM
Hello,

I use Barricade 4 (and love them), which are 1/2 size larger than my regular shoes. I still have a bad case of toe jamming due to sudden stops, most of my nails are black/blue.

Any suggestions? Will going up 1 size make a difference? Won't that make the shoe unstable?

Thanks

PimpMyGame
06-25-2008, 05:50 AM
I had toe jamming but this stopped when I went up a size, definitely worth a try IMO.

nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 06:09 AM
If shoe is 1 size big, is it as stable as a correctly fitting one?

PimpMyGame
06-25-2008, 06:11 AM
It was ok for me, didn't feel any different.

JSE
06-25-2008, 07:01 AM
I would think going to big would become a problem in terms of stability and fit.

I know you say you love the B4's, but why? They make your toenails black and blue. If I was waering a shoe that caused this, I would ditch them in a second. The shoes clearly are not working for your feet. Do you love them for the looks? That all that would make any sense. Granted, maybe you like pain.

chris_ah1
06-25-2008, 07:07 AM
just lace it up better or use the higher support holes. But with length you then have heel slip and chewing rather than toe slam. What you need is a less long shoe but wiht a tad more width or better hold for the foot.

nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 07:33 AM
Granted, maybe you like pain.

Huh??? I like them cos they are very stable and give me great grip on court. Toe jamming is caused when I run and stop or change direction.

JSE
06-25-2008, 07:45 AM
Huh??? I like them cos they are very stable and give me great grip on court. Toe jamming is caused when I run and stop or change direction.

Many shoes can give you these qualites and not cause your toenails to eventually fall off. I guess for me this would be a deal breaker. :confused:

The point is, if you go up to far on the size chart, your going to lose stability. So, then you will have a shoe that may not cause black and blue toenails but is is not stable. Back to square one with a shoe that's not working for you.

I would recommend you try some different shoes. Maybe B5's, Nike, Asics, Prince, etc. It's possible the B4's are not the right shoe for you even if you love them.

nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 08:03 AM
JSE, I know what you mean. I had K Swiss before and didn't like the fit, so switched to Adidas.

I have these for more than a year, don't remember having toe jams earlier with these. Maybe it's also to do with shoes getting worn out?

BreakPoint
06-25-2008, 09:28 AM
IMO, you should go smaller, not bigger. More space in the front of your shoe just gives your foot more room to accelerate and pick up speed before slamming into the front of the shoe causing more damage to your toes. With a snugger fit, your feet don't move as much inside your shoes, and even when they do move, it's only a little bit so the terminal velocity when your toes hit the front of the shoe is much lower causing much less damage.

Klatu Verata Necktie
06-25-2008, 10:06 AM
Hello,

I use Barricade 4 (and love them), which are 1/2 size larger than my regular shoes. I still have a bad case of toe jamming due to sudden stops, most of my nails are black/blue.

Any suggestions? Will going up 1 size make a difference? Won't that make the shoe unstable?

Thanks

What socks are you wearing? It sounds like a strange question, but I've found that 100% polyester/coolmax/acrylic socks tend to allow feet to slide around in shoes, which results in toe jamming and general discomfort.

I prefer all cotton socks over all synthetic socks, but have found the ideal composition to be a blend of cotton and synthetic fibers.

The top Nike and Adidas performance socks feature cotton/synthetic blends. Under Armour and Thorlos feature 100% synthetic blends.

N23
06-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Good topic on a icky item. But when I switched to a different shoe, the pain of toe jam or the occurence of it lessened to where i don't have the problem anymore.

NoBadMojo
06-25-2008, 10:41 AM
I agree with BP....you want your feet moving as little as possible inside your shoe so your toes dont jam into the toe box of your shoes.

But, I believe in buying the right sized shoes. You may want to try a shoe with a less agressive/grippy bottom...so you dont stop as abruptly..that helped my condition quite a bit

COME ON!
06-25-2008, 11:08 AM
a size bigger is fine but i noticed that it takes a little bit of your overall speed and quickness

Caloi
06-25-2008, 11:10 AM
You can also look into something runners do. Take your laces out and measure them, now buy two laces per shoe at half the length. You put one lace down the tounge and one on the upper foot. You can adjust the tension on the upper and lower. So in your case you could tie the lower lace loose and the upper tight. You'd have more room in the toe box with th elooser lace and keep th eupper tight so your foot doesn't move around a bunch.

Looks silly but works like a charm!

Sort of like this...

http://walking.about.com/library/graphics/lacenarrowwide.jpg

TennisDawg
06-25-2008, 11:19 AM
Nice thread about toe jamming. I recently ditched a pair of Adidas. Adidas are known for a very snug and tight fit, almost to the point of impossible to remove the shoe, especially when you're feet are sweaty. Anyway, both big toes became very sore at the joints. I compared the width to another pair of shoes (Wilson) and the Adidas pair are very narrow at front.

I am for a wider shoe and inserting foot pads to make more snug, but at least my toes aren't being jammed against the side of my shoes.

BreakPoint
06-25-2008, 11:25 AM
I agree with BP....
OMG!!! Have I died and gone to heaven?? :shock: :eek: :D

duketennisgal
06-25-2008, 11:31 AM
I had the same issue with my Barricade II's which I wore for years. I suddenly started losing my toenails, to me it felt like I had too much room in the toe and therefore my toes were moving around to much. I switched to Asics Gel Resolution and haven't had a problem yet.

nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 12:15 PM
I switched to Asics Gel Resolution and haven't had a problem yet.

I was also thinking about switching to Asics Gel Resolution. I hear they are easy on the knees also.

The funny thing is my 2nd finger is a bit longer than my big toe, so I end up jamming it more than my toe and that hurts more.

My earlier shoes were snug fit and I had the same (toe jam) problem. Then I read somewhere (I think Tennis mag) that always buy tennis shoes a size larger than regular to avoid toe jams.

nikkhasnis
06-25-2008, 12:22 PM
I prefer all cotton socks over all synthetic socks, but have found the ideal composition to be a blend of cotton and synthetic fibers.



I am sure my socks are 100% cotton, will double check.

Another reason I can think is my lace becomes loose as the game/match progresses, so my foot gets freedom to slide.

tennisdad65
06-25-2008, 01:38 PM
My reeboks caused both my big toes to be black/blue :cry:
I used silicone toe cap protectors which work, but better shoes is the answer.

btw.. how long does it take for the black toenail to fall/grow off?
anything I can do to make this happen faster? soak in warm water etc?

ceruleance
06-25-2008, 03:34 PM
I was having toe jamming as you describe in Barricade 5's. I get it a little bit in the Cage I's, too, but Vapor 5's cause zero toe jamming for me. I'm sure BIV/5's work for a lot of people, but if they are causing toe jamming you might think about switching.

moonbat
06-25-2008, 05:52 PM
FWIW, I tend to jam the left toe more than the right, probably because my left foot is slightly smaller. I add an extra (thin) sock to the left, and that takes care of the problem.

ceruleance
06-25-2008, 05:56 PM
FWIW, I tend to jam the left toe more than the right, probably because my left foot is slightly smaller. I add an extra (thin) sock to the left, and that takes care of the problem.

this would be kind of an interesting non-scientific experiment... are you positive that your left foot is smaller? next time you are in a shoe store maybe you could use one of those sizers that they have to measure for certain? Either way it ends up, the jamming could just be a result of your unique footwork, but it would be interesting if your smaller foot was showing more damage

iTennis
06-25-2008, 07:28 PM
I was also thinking about switching to Asics Gel Resolution. I hear they are easy on the knees also.

The funny thing is my 2nd finger is a bit longer than my big toe, so I end up jamming it more than my toe and that hurts more.

My earlier shoes were snug fit and I had the same (toe jam) problem. Then I read somewhere (I think Tennis mag) that always buy tennis shoes a size larger than regular to avoid toe jams.

Very similar situation here.....My 2nd toe finger is longer too, and having black nails on both big toe and 2nd finger. My big toe nail just fell off (OK got yanked out) finally last night....

Diadora Speedzone started my black toe problems and Adidas a3 Prevail did not help much. Both have relatively wider toe box, and no up sizing. Double socks did little.

Now I wear Adidas CC Edge Ultimate, and went 1/2 size up, matched up with Thorlo level 3 socks. I have not had any toe jamming incidents (yet), so I think little more toe room is in the right direction.

BUT on the first day they gave me a big blister in arch (never happened to me before), both feet....then again on one feet after a few weeks. So I suspect while more room lengthwise could stop toe jamming, excessive movement/ friction could then cause blisters. I have not ruled it out to be the shoes, and it could be that I was not lacing tight enough so that's what I'm experimenting. I should also note that I got flat feet, and even so I feel very low arch support in these shoes. So just replaced the insole with little more arch support to see if it helps.

It is interesting to read about cotton vs poly. I do feel Thorlo (no cotton) is slippery, and it may be contributing sliding/ friction/ blister too. Anyone can recommend cotton blend socks as thick as Thorlo level 3? I do love cushioning quality with the Thorlo, though.

Not sure about a whole size up, I'm afraid that my heel will pop out on extreme moving.

siow_a
06-26-2008, 05:12 AM
Very similar situation here.....My 2nd toe finger is longer too, and having black nails on both big toe and 2nd finger. My big toe nail just fell off (OK got yanked out) finally last night....

Diadora Speedzone started my black toe problems and Adidas a3 Prevail did not help much. Both have relatively wider toe box, and no up sizing. Double socks did little.

Now I wear Adidas CC Edge Ultimate, and went 1/2 size up, matched up with Thorlo level 3 socks. I have not had any toe jamming incidents (yet), so I think little more toe room is in the right direction.

BUT on the first day they gave me a big blister in arch (never happened to me before), both feet....then again on one feet after a few weeks. So I suspect while more room lengthwise could stop toe jamming, excessive movement/ friction could then cause blisters. I have not ruled it out to be the shoes, and it could be that I was not lacing tight enough so that's what I'm experimenting. I should also note that I got flat feet, and even so I feel very low arch support in these shoes. So just replaced the insole with little more arch support to see if it helps.

It is interesting to read about cotton vs poly. I do feel Thorlo (no cotton) is slippery, and it may be contributing sliding/ friction/ blister too. Anyone can recommend cotton blend socks as thick as Thorlo level 3? I do love cushioning quality with the Thorlo, though.

Not sure about a whole size up, I'm afraid that my heel will pop out on extreme moving.


I wear a thin pair of cotton sock and the thorlo 3 over them. Don't pull the thorlo against the toes. Leave a little room in the "toe box" of the thorlo. The first layer of cotton will act like a second skin and will not cause blisters. Any sliding is minimal as the cotton sock likely will be moist and adhere to your foot and grab onto the thorlo.

Please remember to use at least 80-100% cotton sox. Too much of a synthetic blend heats up the foot and causes the foot to slide. Which is not what you want. Cotton breaths better than synthetic, although a lot of the synthetic may keep your foot quite dry, It causes your foot to slide too much in the shoe.

I used to get blister and toe stubbs with thorlos. A friend offered the tip a few years back. It has worked well for 7 years now. BTW: It does not get hot. The cotton actually allows the foot to breath better and the thorlo wicks the mositure away from the cotton.

scraps234
06-26-2008, 06:02 PM
i used to have a jammed toe but it went away...neways take it up a size itll help

=)

iTennis
06-27-2008, 05:20 PM
I wear a thin pair of cotton sock and the thorlo 3 over them. Don't pull the thorlo against the toes. Leave a little room in the "toe box" of the thorlo. The first layer of cotton will act like a second skin and will not cause blisters. Any sliding is minimal as the cotton sock likely will be moist and adhere to your foot and grab onto the thorlo.

Please remember to use at least 80-100% cotton sox. Too much of a synthetic blend heats up the foot and causes the foot to slide. Which is not what you want. Cotton breaths better than synthetic, although a lot of the synthetic may keep your foot quite dry, It causes your foot to slide too much in the shoe.

I used to get blister and toe stubbs with thorlos. A friend offered the tip a few years back. It has worked well for 7 years now. BTW: It does not get hot. The cotton actually allows the foot to breath better and the thorlo wicks the mositure away from the cotton.


Actually I had been wearing nothing but 100% cotton socks and never had blisters in the arch until I started wearing Thorlo level 3 recently. Also my feet get cooked/ steamed well with Thorlo 3, thought it was from the thickness but could be the material. Will go back to cotton socks or try them underneath Thorlos and see.

officerdibble
06-29-2008, 03:05 AM
I too have had this problem. My suggestions are:

1. Buy shoes that fit properly; the consequences of shoes that don't are likely to worse than the toe problems, which should be solvable.

2. I agree with the sock comments. Experiment with different brands to see what gives you the best fit and also considering changing socks (to new dry ones) during a match / session.

3. Perhaps most importantly of all, start cutting your toenails shorter. Get into the habit of trimming them regularly and check them each time you get ready to play. This has been the biggest difference to me. It sounds stupid to say it, but it's worth getting someone who knows about cutting them short to show you how short you can take them safely. If you can keep the nail back from the end of the shoe you shouldn't get a problem.

All of that said, I do seem to recall reading some tennis player saying he was or was thinking of having his toe nail surgically removed. Ugggh.

moonbat
06-29-2008, 11:35 AM
this would be kind of an interesting non-scientific experiment... are you positive that your left foot is smaller? next time you are in a shoe store maybe you could use one of those sizers that they have to measure for certain? Either way it ends up, the jamming could just be a result of your unique footwork, but it would be interesting if your smaller foot was showing more damage

Yeah...shoe salespeople have been telling me that for years...they say it's normal to have one foot a little bigger than the other. :shock: Or maybe I'm a just a freak. Anyway, I guess I do have unique footwork---my teacher often gets a good laugh out my split-step-shuffle-ball-change. I think it's probably this pair of shoes; my last pair split both big toenails, but the extra sock underneath has been helpful.

nikkhasnis
06-30-2008, 06:33 AM
This is what I got off the net from Dick's and SA's "How To Buy Tennis Shoes " (both sites show the same page :-D)

"Allow (thumbnail's length) of space between top of longest toe on largest foot and the end of the shoe"

iTennis
06-30-2008, 06:33 AM
Bought thin 80% cotton socks and wore under Thorlo level 3. Still not too tight in my 1/2 size up shoes, and it seems working... Feet did not get as hot as just Thorlos, and no signs of arch blisters coming back.

Thanks siow_a for a spot-on advise.

Blade0324
06-30-2008, 03:57 PM
You can also look into something runners do. Take your laces out and measure them, now buy two laces per shoe at half the length. You put one lace down the tounge and one on the upper foot. You can adjust the tension on the upper and lower. So in your case you could tie the lower lace loose and the upper tight. You'd have more room in the toe box with th elooser lace and keep th eupper tight so your foot doesn't move around a bunch.

Looks silly but works like a charm!

Sort of like this...

http://walking.about.com/library/graphics/lacenarrowwide.jpg

I like this idea but when I had this problem in the past to the point where it caused me to have to go have the big toe nail on one foot removed the Dr. told me that the way to avoid this was to lace shoes much tighter at the bottom than the top. What this does is keeps the foot from sliding forward. The first thing the foot hits when it moves forward is the low part of the shoe at the bottom of the laces. Tighten the shoes very tight there and then slightly looser if need be as you go up. Do this in addition to going up a half size and no problem.

siow_a
07-01-2008, 05:05 AM
Bought thin 80% cotton socks and wore under Thorlo level 3. Still not too tight in my 1/2 size up shoes, and it seems working... Feet did not get as hot as just Thorlos, and no signs of arch blisters coming back.

Thanks siow_a for a spot-on advise.

Crazy isn't it...but it works. The setup is real comfortable. Cotton breaths a lot better.