Some questions - all welcome to answer

[150mph_]

1. Doubles both playing back?

I am not a great volleyer now, I totally lost my touch and coordination, reaction time and vision over a year some lay off... before I was 'decent' as I played badminton before.
What kind of strategy and position do I do to play both back for doubles?
There aren't many doubles on television so its really difficult to learn from televisoin so... thanks

2. kick serve does just sit up to be thrashed :(

i am not getting enough forward motion nor topspin into the topspin serve and when it gets into the service box it just sits up like waist-chest level to be thrashed. what do i do to improve this?

3.

over-milking the backhand slice during tense momments, how do overcome that? basically not trusting on the regular backhand swing even though backhand has the best technique out of the two-wings (forehand sometimes i get too fancy with all the different swings sometimes use to wrist or muscle it) ... i even slice back all the serve returns, grrr.

4.

what is more consistent at a recreational/club level, slice serve or topspin serves?

[LuckyR]

1. Doubles both playing back?

I am not a great volleyer now, I totally lost my touch and coordination, reaction time and vision over a year some lay off... before I was 'decent' as I played badminton before.
What kind of strategy and position do I do to play both back for doubles?
There aren't many doubles on television so its really difficult to learn from televisoin so... thanks

2. kick serve does just sit up to be thrashed :(

i am not getting enough forward motion nor topspin into the topspin serve and when it gets into the service box it just sits up like waist-chest level to be thrashed. what do i do to improve this?

3.

over-milking the backhand slice during tense momments, how do overcome that? basically not trusting on the regular backhand swing even though backhand has the best technique out of the two-wings (forehand sometimes i get too fancy with all the different swings sometimes use to wrist or muscle it) ... i even slice back all the serve returns, grrr.

4.

what is more consistent at a recreational/club level, slice serve or topspin serves?


You don't mention you level (which BTW is more important for knowing your competition that your stroke, per se). But based on your comments I'll make a leap of faith on your level.

1- If you have modern strokes playing two back is completely reasonable. Especially if you feel comfortable ripping groundie winners and passes. Or if you are a touch player (you mention you aren't) who can lob well.

2- I would move away from a kick serve in matches until it won't be punished, when it is faster or kickier. Slice serves work well in doubles, especially if it will stay low. But because of #1, returns will be less effective if you are playing 2 back. Thaty part of you post is a little unclear: are you going to always play back, but will your partner do that as well?

3- That's clearly an issue between you and yourself, if you should be hitting out (which if you are playing 2 back, you should) then hit out. Nuff said.

4- Most Rec players don't have a punishing kicker, although there are exceptions. Slices are usually learned first and are a bit better.

[ProfoundBasic]

badminton use more wrist than tennis.
Tennis use more coiling than badminton.

find the touch, you will be fine.

[Nellie]

1) don't give up the net, even if your volleys suck. Take a couple of steps back to the service line, or move forward near that net so that anything has to go in. The benefit to being at the net is that you can put away the lame floating ball

2 & 4) Don't hit the kick serve if you don't have it. The slice is a wonderful serve. Most recreational players get along well with the slice. I hit kickers for both first and second, but I find that the slice often works better, especially if you are not that tall.

3) If you want to slice, at least flatten it out slightly to hit with a little zip. that way, you can stay in your comfort zone but still be effective.

[junbumkim]

1) Two back position in doubles just sounds like a poor strategy unless you have superior passing shots. With two people crowding the net, you have very little room to pass and are under constant pressure to hit quaility shots. Also, this will require you to be even more quicker than at net, if you think about it. It doesn't make sense since you said your backhand is a liability.

My guess is that your footwork at the net is off or you are trying to do too much at the net with volleys.

2) You will just have to learn to hit better kick serve. maybe you are brushing up too much? Try to toss the ball slightly more in front? You can sacrifice power on 1st serve for placement and increase your 1st serve percentage.

3) You just have to force yourself to hit bh under pressure. Or you can develop more versatile bh slice; short & paceless slice or penetrating slice.

4) This is a question of aptitutde and execution. Scientifically, kick serve will be more safe since it has topspin that brings the ball down. But kick serve is slightly more complicated than the slice serve.

[Steady Eddy]

1) The conventional wisdom is that doubles is played at the net. But I've seen some players be very effective at doubles from the backcourt. In spite of that I'd suggest that you try playing doubles at the net, even if this means losing until your net game gets better. Doubles gives you a way to learn the net game, so that later you might add the net to your singles game w/ some success. Also, after you've played enough doubles from the net, I'm sure that you'll think it's lots of fun. A more interesting game than singles in terms of tactics and strategy. So try biting the bullet for a while, and venture up to the net for your singles.

[TexasTennis88]

playing from the back of the net is not always bad to mix it up. You need to learn to volley again cause you will be on defence much more often when playing back. I would never recommend playing two back on service games but on return games if your playing that bad go two back for a few points I wouldnt say the whole match though.

[Bungalo Bill]

Doubles both playing back? What kind of strategy and position do I do to play both back for doubles?

The things you need to be aware of are:

1. Both players should not be too far apart: Otherwise, this leaves the middle open. One of the things I tell doubles players is you want to hit the ball up, down, and through the middle. So if both you and your partner are positioned too wide, guess what? Your opponents will gladly hit through the middle.

2. Both players should not be too far back: You and your partner in the two-back formation need to control the court in front of you. Not the baseline! The court you control is between the baseline and the service line. This is because you are positioning yourselves to guard the angled ball. That is the position weakness of the two-back formation you are leaving open to your opponents. Therefore, you need to be either on the baseline or just in front of it. You do not want to be behind the baseline to far or you will open big angles up and it will be difficult for you to cut-off the ball when your opponents take advantage of your poor positioning in this formation. Protecting real estate in doubles (in any formation) is very important.

3. Both players should not be positioned at different depths too long: Makes sure you are as even as possible.

4. Don't let a ball go through the middle without a swing: Do not let middle balls go through the center untouched even if both of you swing at it! We will all let em go at times, you just need to work at not letting it happen too much.

I am not a great volleyer now, I totally lost my touch and coordination, reaction time and vision over a year some lay off... before I was 'decent' as I played badminton before.

Then shore up this through practice and determination.

2. kick serve does just sit up to be thrashed :(

i am not getting enough forward motion nor topspin into the topspin serve and when it gets into the service box it just sits up like waist-chest level to be thrashed. what do i do to improve this?

Keep practicing. Slow it down and make sure you learn how to go up and forward while having an appropriate toss. Too much brush will not help. You have to develop the right feel. Have a pro look at it.

over-milking the backhand slice during tense momments, how do overcome that? basically not trusting on the regular backhand swing even though backhand has the best technique out of the two-wings (forehand sometimes i get too fancy with all the different swings sometimes use to wrist or muscle it) ... i even slice back all the serve returns, grrr.

Footwork, footspeed, conditioning, recovery. Not judging and moving soon enough. Staring at your previous shot too long.

You need to go through tough physical training that will "get you mean".

[tfnplayer]

The things you need to be aware of are:

1. Both players should not be too far apart: Otherwise, this leaves the middle open. One of the things I tell doubles players is you want to hit the ball up, down, and through the middle. So if both you and your partner are positioned too wide, guess what? Your opponents will gladly hit through the middle.

2. Both players should not be too far back: You and your partner in the two-back formation need to control the court in front of you. Not the baseline! The court you control is between the baseline and the service line. This is because you are positioning yourselves to guard the angled ball. That is the position weakness of the two-back formation you are leaving open to your opponents. Therefore, you need to be either on the baseline or just in front of it. You do not want to be behind the baseline to far or you will open big angles up and it will be difficult for you to cut-off the ball when your opponents take advantage of your poor positioning in this formation. Protecting real estate in doubles (in any formation) is very important.

3. Both players should not be positioned at different depths too long: Makes sure you are as even as possible.

4. Don't let a ball go through the middle without a swing: Do not let middle balls go through the center untouched even if both of you swing at it! We will all let em go at times, you just need to work at not letting it happen too much.



Then shore up this through practice and determination.



Keep practicing. Slow it down and make sure you learn how to go up and forward while having an appropriate toss. Too much brush will not help. You have to develop the right feel. Have a pro look at it.



Footwork, footspeed, conditioning, recovery. Not judging and moving soon enough. Staring at your previous shot too long.

You need to go through tough physical training that will "get you mean".


BB, I always enjoy reading your posts on techniques and I put them in practice with my friends. In regard to your post, I am puzzled with the phrase I highlighted. Isn't that the NO MAN LANDs area? Aren't we supposed to stay long in that?

Cheers

[SystemicAnomaly]

BB, I always enjoy reading your posts on techniques and I put them in practice with my friends. In regard to your post, I am puzzled with the phrase I highlighted. Isn't that the NO MAN LANDs area? Aren't we supposed to stay long in that?

Cheers

Some consider Mo-Mans-Land as extending all the way back to the baseline. Others do not consider the area just inside the baseline to be part of NML. Regardless of your definition of NML, BB makes an excellent point. In singles, many players will play behind the baseline (and will not stay in NML). However, in doubles, the deep position is much less-than-ideal. This is because the doubles alleys allow your opponents to hit sharply angled shots that are not possible in singles -- therefore a deep position, behind the baseline, is an inferior position in doubs.

[SystemicAnomaly]

1. Doubles both playing back?

I am not a great volleyer now, I totally lost my touch and coordination, reaction time and vision over a year some lay off... before I was 'decent' as I played badminton before...

I am a bit surprised that a 'decent' badminton player would have a problem with volleys. Badminton doubles very often demands the type of reflexes needed in tennis doubles net play. Badminton also employs a "drive volley" that is very similar to a tennis volley (tho' the footwork is usually a bit different).

Perhaps you should spend a bit of time to develop your volley again rather than retreating to the backcourt. Have a practice partner feed you some moderately-paced balls while you are standing at the net (without your racket). As the ball approaches, turn your shoulder as you would for a volley (about 45 degrees or so). With your right hand forward, approx even with your front (left) shoulder, line your hand up to the incoming ball, without reaching, and try to catch it -- simulating a FH volley.

Do not let your elbow get away from your body to catch the ball (unless the ball is too high). Instead of reaching for the ball, move your feet to get your hand lined up to the incoming ball. For balls on the other side of the body, turn your shoulders the other way & use the left hand to catch ball. As you get better at this, have your partner fire some faster balls at you. For the faster-paced balls, you might want to use those foam "speed balls" or some low-compression tennis balls.

After you've mastered this exercise, try it with your racket. Instead of lining your hand up to catch the ball, line up the sweetspot of the stringbed to contact the ball. Again, try to keep your elbow quiet -- do not try to reach for the ball. With a relaxed grip, line up the sweetspot, focus your gaze intently on the contact zone, and squeeze the handle to bring the racket head (with an open racket face) forward & down a bit to meet the ball -- no backswing & only a short follow-thru.

Have your partner gradually increase the speed of the feeds. I did this whole sequence with a friend who was very net-phobic (he had been hit in the face some years back). For the faster paced balls, I blasted the foam "speed ball" at him and instructed him to just think of "catching" the balls with his strings. The idea of "catching" rather than swinging at the ball really seemed to help immensely improve coordination and reaction time.

[150mph_]

i found that using eastern backhand grip to serve the topspin serve gives a bit more spin and it is helping a bit... im trying to get used to the contact point at this moment...

my topspin service motion is modeled after rafa's lol not the easiest one to model... but i feel the most comfort with it .. i really do not know why..

[5263]

Nellie,
You usually give such good advice, so what is this about moving back to the service line?? You mean just to start there then move, right?
You can't mean to stay there and be one of those orange target cones in no mans land, right?
Just checking.

[150mph_]

bump??????????????