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View Full Version : Alex Bogomolov's Prestige


NoBadMojo
07-16-2008, 11:11 AM
I have two of his frames. The are Flexpoint MP's. They arent paintjobs. very small grips - 4 1/4. No spec decals and custom built by Bosworth buttcap. They are unstrung, and feel about evenly balanced unstrung, so they are seriously customized. I may string one up and have a go with it on Friday.

Fee
07-16-2008, 11:14 AM
Huh? Alex switched to Prince recently. Did he switch back again or do you have old frames?

NoBadMojo
07-16-2008, 11:21 AM
Huh? Alex switched to Prince recently. Did he switch back again or do you have old frames?


Hi Fee....I really am not interested in who is playing what, so have no idea. The buttcaps have the Bosworth Logo and say 'Custom Built by Bosworth for Alex Bogomolov. I bet they are his previous frames. Is he doing better since the switch? worse? same?

Bogie
07-16-2008, 11:31 AM
Huh? Alex switched to Prince recently. Did he switch back again or do you have old frames?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Nadal1336/57176509.jpg

nbm has 2 of these

Fee
07-16-2008, 11:42 AM
Okay, got it. I think he switched in late April or early May. He's played with about 8 different racquets since I met him a few years ago, I swear I don't know anyone who has the equipment issues that he does.

I spoke to him in June at Yuba City and he really seemed to like the new frames, he's using the orange ones which I guess are the O-Tour models? He played well in Carson, then not so well in Yuba City, so I would say that's about the same as the Alex B. of previous years. ;)

NBMJ, how heavy are the racquets? Can you measure or guess the weight?

NoBadMojo
07-16-2008, 12:13 PM
Okay, got it. I think he switched in late April or early May. He's played with about 8 different racquets since I met him a few years ago, I swear I don't know anyone who has the equipment issues that he does.

I spoke to him in June at Yuba City and he really seemed to like the new frames, he's using the orange ones which I guess are the O-Tour models? He played well in Carson, then not so well in Yuba City, so I would say that's about the same as the Alex B. of previous years. ;)

NBMJ, how heavy are the racquets? Can you measure or guess the weight?


mebbe he liked the old frames but prince gave him an offer he couldnt refuse? they seem to be buying up lots of pros. perhaps head was paying him zero and just supplying him w. frames which he was spending a real lot of money on to have customized, and Prince came along with some dinero? who knows. i do know there is a serious misconception on this forum as lots of people seem to think that most pros get paid to play racquets....many/most of them dont.

These frames really arent super heavy...they feel a little lighter than my becker11Mids unstrung (for clarification am comparing the Prestige un to the Becker strung) which I play stock except for leather. It is clear there is weight in the hoop on these and i dont think there is much/any down low...that seems to trick people like me into thinking the frames are heavier than they really are because I play mine headlight....the Becker Mid is a 325 grams frame. add .5 oz for stringing...a bit more w. poly. I'll have a much better idea about balance and swingweight if i get one strung and play with it, and if i pass by a post office, i'll see if i can throw one on a scale for you. later on, Mojo

Shaolin
07-16-2008, 02:15 PM
Hey NBMJ...

Just wondering how you came across these frames?

Little grips are awesome for generating spin...you might get addicted and switch if you try them:)

BreakPoint
07-16-2008, 02:28 PM
very small grips - 4 1/4.
Ah-ha! Now we know why Ashley Harkleroad divorced him. ;) :oops: :lol:

JW10S
07-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Alex is indeed now playing with Prince racquets. I haven't seen him play with a stencil in his racquets much in the last few years so I doubt his constant switching has anything to do with money.

NoBadMojo
07-16-2008, 03:57 PM
Hey NBMJ...

Just wondering how you came across these frames?

Little grips are awesome for generating spin...you might get addicted and switch if you try them:)

Yo Mike....a friend in the Industry who I've helped out in the past.

Ya man...over the years I've gone from 5/8 to 1/2, and have been playing 3/8ths now for a few years. Any smaller and my wrist starts to hurt on the forehand and I cant volley so well. The small grips also really help get you more action on the serve as well. Mojo

ps. Grabbed this racquet again..i'm sure the static weight is actually low on this thing

stalako
07-16-2008, 04:38 PM
please stop saying it feel like not so heavy and evenly balanced like my boris becker racquet(bla,bla,bla....)

JUST BUY A SCALE AND WEIGHT IT
SAME FOR THE BALANCE POINT

ngtaj88
07-16-2008, 09:17 PM
Alex is indeed now playing with Prince racquets. I haven't seen him play with a stencil in his racquets much in the last few years so I doubt his constant switching has anything to do with money.

what racquet is he using now?

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 10:03 AM
Ah-ha! Now we know why Ashley Harkleroad divorced him. ;) :oops: :lol:

I dont find junior high humour funny especially when coming from an 'adult'. nice work w. the multiple smileys.

Fee
07-17-2008, 10:15 AM
Thank you, I was curious about that too because I vaguely remember holding one of his old Babolat racquets back in 2005 and thinking 'this isn't very heavy'. I have one of Justin's Babolat frames and I think it's stock except for the lead at 3 and 9. The heaviest racquet I've held was Mike Yani's and his was just weird. So I guess not all of the players need heavy bats, it's just their own personal preference.

babolat15
07-17-2008, 10:37 AM
can you post some pics :)

ericsson
07-17-2008, 11:09 AM
can you post some pics :)

Not a chance, Mojo isen't the photo kinda guy!

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 11:19 AM
Thank you, I was curious about that too because I vaguely remember holding one of his old Babolat racquets back in 2005 and thinking 'this isn't very heavy'. I have one of Justin's Babolat frames and I think it's stock except for the lead at 3 and 9. The heaviest racquet I've held was Mike Yani's and his was just weird. So I guess not all of the players need heavy bats, it's just their own personal preference.

yw Fee. You are one of the forum 'good guys' and post good info, so was happy to do this. A big part is the customizing of all their frames to precisely match. Indeed, the specs of pros racquets are all over the place and vary wildly, especially w. string tension I think.
Also think that with baselining the main way on Tour these days, many of the pros use frames w. more weight in the head than days gone by...weight added up high quickly adds to the swingweight

can you post some pics :)

no pics..looks exactly like a Flexpoint Pretige MP w. white overgrip except for the buttcap as indicated earlier.

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 11:57 AM
My post w. the weight and balance of this frame was deleted.

The racquet only weighs 10.9 un and balances at .6HL strung w. a 17multi. Strung SW seems to be under 330, but will have a better idea after hitting with it

Fee
07-17-2008, 12:31 PM
Thanks for the compliment NBMJ.

Hey, can I ask you a question? I was talking to Jan-Michael about his racquet back in June, he has lead at 12, 3 and 9 and he said 'I like it that way, it's a really live racquet.' What does 'live' mean? I didn't get a chance to ask him.

Gemini
07-17-2008, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the compliment NBMJ.

Hey, can I ask you a question? I was talking to Jan-Michael about his racquet back in June, he has lead at 12, 3 and 9 and he said 'I like it that way, it's a really live racquet.' What does 'live' mean? I didn't get a chance to ask him.

He probably meant that the balls reaction off of the strings is pretty solid and explosive. When I talk about a "lively" racquet, I usually refer to a racquet that's comfortable for me to swing and when I make contact with the ball there's no sense of instability and the ball literally sinks into the stringbed but then jumps off of the strings.

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the compliment NBMJ.

Hey, can I ask you a question? I was talking to Jan-Michael about his racquet back in June, he has lead at 12, 3 and 9 and he said 'I like it that way, it's a really live racquet.' What does 'live' mean? I didn't get a chance to ask him.

yw

I assume he means that the extra weight in the hoop makes the ball jump off the racquet..more power..more lively.

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 05:15 PM
I have two of his frames. The are Flexpoint MP's. They arent paintjobs. very small grips - 4 1/4. No spec decals and custom built by Bosworth buttcap. They are unstrung, and feel about evenly balanced unstrung, so they are seriously customized. I may string one up and have a go with it on Friday.

NBMOJO, can you please post pictures of the frames:confused:,

because the picture provided by Bogie shows the groves at the throat and that is not a FXP but a painted PT630, SO I do not know what you really have?

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 05:53 PM
NBMOJO, can you please post pictures of the frames:confused:,

because the picture provided by Bogie shows the groves at the throat and that is not a FXP but a painted PT630, SO I do not know what you really have?

sorry you dont understand what i have. try reading what you quoted me on and reading the thread. your question about the pictures will also be answered

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 06:09 PM
it is simple no groves at throat (boxed) equals stock FXP equals no bogomolovs frame which is what you have unless you provide photo?

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 06:13 PM
no pics..looks exactly like a Flexpoint Pretige MP w. white overgrip except for the buttcap as indicated earlier.

what was I thinking:confused: you refused to post pictures, you have a stock FXP, that is not Alex Bogomolov's Prestige (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2530098#post2530098)

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 06:26 PM
it is simple no groves at throat (boxed) equals stock FXP equals no bogomolovs frame which is what you have unless you provide photo?

consider that paintjobs do not have real flexpoint holes in them and the corresponding indents in the frame.
your posts arent deserving of any sort of response...have no idea whay i am indulging you. you also posted the same crap in the racquet section. please go away..thanks.

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 06:44 PM
^^^^you have a stock FXP that he probably tested and hated, He used a PT57A, unless you provide photos which you will never do.

now go and play with your BB's you have no business commenting on frames you know nothing about.

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 06:48 PM
you have a stock FXP that he tried and hated, He uses a PT57A, unless you provide photos which you will never,

no..he uses a Prince racquet now..read the thread...hope this doesnt cause you too much angst. you'll forgive me if i choose not to continue this with you
nice touch adding the snide totally unecessary Becker comment..you must be special.

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 06:51 PM
no..he uses a Prince racquet now..read the thread...hope this doesnt cause you too much angst. you'll forgive me if i choose not to continue this with you
nice touch adding the snide totally unecessary Becker comment..you must be special.
fine, usED, who cares what he uses now, the photos of him using (not a stock FXP) Head is not what you claim are his frames,

VSbabolat will come here and straighten you out

let the Head experts chime in, you are no Head expert, now go and play with your volkls

vsbabolat
07-17-2008, 06:54 PM
consider that paintjobs do not have real flexpoint holes in them and the corresponding indents in the frame.
your posts arent deserving of any sort of response...have no idea whay i am indulging you. you also posted the same crap in the racquet section. please go away..thanks.

That is not exactly true there are "Flexpoint" racquets that use the Pro Tour 630 mold but have actual Flexpoint holes that are Pro issue only.
Here is Thomas Martinez talking about Gustavo Kuerten's racquet back in Feb. 12, 2007.
Actually, he is a bit picky about his equipment. He never played a Ti Fire Pro, it was a Pro Tour with the crossbar added in the mold of a Pro Tour. There are flex point holes on his frames, but they're not real. And he just got a shipment of fresh frames. He is picky with his grips, he's the only one who really knows how to do it. Hard to explain how he does it. String wise, I'd say he's trying the new Sonic Pro, he's tried Head strings before, even almost switched to the Ultra Tour

Other notables with the Pro Tour 630 with Flexpoint holes (not painted) and grooves in the throat are Wawrinka and Sela.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Sela_2008RolandGarros.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Wawrinka_2008GermanOpen.jpg

Versus comercial flat throat.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/HEAD_FXPP-2.jpg

Mojo, Please understand I have no intention of having a argument with you. I just wanted to put out some things that maybe you are unaware of. Bogomolov certainly has gone through some different racquet over the last few years and at one time was using the Pro Tour 630 with the Flexpoints like in Bogie's photo. Just curious which one you have . The racquet with the grooves in the throat with the Flexpoint holes (Pro Tour 630 with Flexpoint holes) or a real Fexpoint Prestige MP with the flat throat, flexpoint holes, and the Liguidmetal ridges inside the hoop at 10, 2, 5, and 7 O'clock.

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 07:10 PM
thanks VS for chiming in

I asked NBMOJO in a kind way to post pictures of what he has and he refused and told me to go away:confused: I doubt he even knows what he has.

NBMOJO, plain and simple, post photos and I will eat crow.

babolat141
07-17-2008, 07:17 PM
im kinda confused??? um so its not a real flexpoint but it doesnt cup the ball and What grooves are you talking about?

vsbabolat
07-17-2008, 07:22 PM
im kinda confused??? um so its not a real flexpoint but it doesnt cup the ball and What grooves are you talking about?

Look at the throat of Sela's racquet see the grooves in the throat.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Sela_2008RolandGarros.jpg

Now look at the FXP Prestige MP that is sold to the public no grooves it is flat.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/HEAD_FXPP-2.jpg

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 07:31 PM
babolat141

this is not for you but for the slow folks on this forum like NBMOJO, look at the black circles
http://i36.tinypic.com/2i0ps11.jpg

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 07:33 PM
I asked NBMOJO in a kind way to tell me about the throat:confused: he refused to even post a photo, too bad

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 07:48 PM
That is not exactly true there are "Flexpoint" racquets that use the Pro Tour 630 mold but have actual Flexpoint holes that are Pro issue only.

Mojo, Please understand I have no intention of having a argument with you. I just wanted to put out some things that maybe you unaware of.


ok thanks. I see what you are saying. Didnt understand what you meant by grooves. These frames have grooves in them and real flexpoints, and arent flat like the stock frames evidently are. The grooves resemble those of Volkl racquets. Have no idea what the stiffness of old Head frames might be from that old mold in stock form but i bet pretty flexy. I really doubt that this frame is gonna be a flexy hit, so perhaps this is an old Head mold w. a firmer layup and the Flexpoint holes, and who knows what else? so you all can call this whatever you want ;)

I'm just not so interested in all this minutia....i know that pros get customized frames to varying degrees, and really dont care who uses what. I started this thread because I know some people are interested and I thought it was meaningful to post how low the static weight of these frames are...and I am curious how this frame would hit since it seems to be in my swingweight range, so i strung one up.

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 07:52 PM
geeze it took intervention to straighten this out, Hence it is not a stock FXP unlike what you said here http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=2527221&postcount=82 , it has grooves, geeze, next time we should bust out the bib and the spoon :) all you had to do was post photos or say yes it has the grooves at the throat.

vsbabolat
07-17-2008, 07:58 PM
ok thanks. I see what you are saying. Didnt understand what you meant by grooves. These frames have grooves in them and real flexpoints, and arent flat like the stock frames evidently are. The grooves resemble those of Volkl racquets. Have no idea what the stiffness of old Head frames might be from that old mold in stock form but i bet pretty flexy. I really doubt that this frame is gonna be a flexy hit, so perhaps this is an old Head mold w. a firmer layup and the Flexpoint holes, and who knows what else? so you all can call this whatever you want ;)

I'm just not so interested in all this minutia....i know that pros get customized frames to varying degrees, and really dont care who uses what. I started this thread because I know some people are interested and I thought it was meaningful to post how low the static weight of these frames are...and I am curious how this frame would hit since it seems to be in my swingweight range, so i strung one up.

I have had the opportunity to see one of those racquets at one of the famous customizers last year. The racquet (PT630withFlexpoints) you have does have a layup of Graphite and Twaron Fiber and does not have the piezoelectric fibers, TwinTube construction, and Liquidmetal. It will be interesting to hear your take on the racquet. Thank you for understanding where I am coming from.

NoBadMojo
07-17-2008, 08:14 PM
geeze it took intervention to straighten this out, Hence it is not a stock FXP unlike what you said here http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=2527221&postcount=82 , it has grooves, geeze, next time we should bust out the bib and the spoon :) all you had to do was post photos or say yes it has the grooves at the throat.

i think i get it. you sound a lot like Chaho posting under another username. that explains it all

I have had the opportunity to see one of those racquets at one of the famous the customizers last year. The racquet (PT630withFlexpoints) you have does have a layup of Graphite and Twaron Fiber and does not have the piezoelectric fibers, TwinTube construction, and Liquidmetal. It will be interesting to hear your take on the racquet. Thank you for understanding where I am coming from.

gotcha..apologies for my role in our previous misunderstandings. i'll post my thoughts on this stick after my hit. why wouldnt they offer this layup to consumers? more graphite and more of the good stuff so more expensive to make?

Pro_Tour_630
07-17-2008, 08:30 PM
i think i get it. you sound a lot like Chaho posting under another username. that explains it all
whatever mojo, cheers drink up

ericsson
07-18-2008, 01:22 AM
i think i get it. you sound a lot like Chaho posting under another username. that explains it all



gotcha..apologies for my role in our previous misunderstandings. i'll post my thoughts on this stick after my hit. why wouldnt they offer this layup to consumers? more graphite and more of the good stuff so more expensive to make?

Yes that's my thought, they are too expensive cos using different lay ups, very high modulus graphite, sometimes different string pattern etc...
Anyway, looking out for you review Ed, keep us posted...

NoBadMojo
07-18-2008, 06:12 AM
Yes that's my thought, they are too expensive cos using different lay ups, very high modulus graphite, sometimes different string pattern etc...
Anyway, looking out for you review Ed, keep us posted...

I think it's more of a matter of the % of graphite in the layups of some of the pros frames. I've suspected that some of the pros get to use racquets w. a higher % of graphite to resins/fillers/plastics. Dont know about these head frames, but can say that the n series and k series Wilsons i've hit with sure dont feel much like graphite frames..they feel more like hitting with plastic. I bet Fed's frames have quite a bit higher content of graphite in them than the consumer grade ones

As to Bog's frames....he gets the benefit of double customization. he was using a frame mold not available to the public and had them further customized by Bosworth

NoBadMojo
07-18-2008, 10:51 AM
. It will be interesting to hear your take on the racquet. Thank you for understanding where I am coming from.


Anyway, looking out for you review Ed, keep us posted...

Spent at least an hour w. this racquet this morning under very heavy conditions. Very warm and humid, slow har-tru, and a fine drizzle. Hit in both drill format and point play format playing 7/11 games.

Racquet strung at 52 w. Klip Excellerator17 which is the string I always use in a playtest racquet

Dont know what all you guys are interested in knowing and will try and keep this pretty short as best as i can. I really enjoyed my hit w. this racquet. It's very solid and comfortable and had ample power to it. Flatter trajectory than my usual ralley ball which was expected. Hit everything well with it...was best at groundstroking, served fine, quick on service returns and volleyed well but I think volleying was its weaker point and this could be more a function of the way the racquet is set up balancewise and the very small gripsize more than anything else. I dont think the swingweight could be over 325..so that would make it in the 330 range strung w. poly. I can see how a pro could really smoke the ball with a racquet like this. use really big batspeed with poly for spin and control. lots of ball speed and control and could penetrate the court even with the heavy conditions without trying to force my strokes.

I learned something by hitting with a setup like that. That you can hit a solid heavy ball with a lighter frame like this provided the racquet isnt so headlight. You really could feel some mass in the head on groundstrokes ...it really helped pull the racquethead through and helps you hit some big groundstrokes. In the future, I'm going to morph into racquets with this type of static weight and balance.

I am interested if anyone knows what someone like Warren Bosworth might do to customize a racquet like this from a measurement point of view. I know about silicone in the handle and lead tape of course, but I understand the pro customizers are more about MOI than swingweight..do they have a special machine which measures this??? there is obviously a lot more to this than what people do at home by slapping lead around until it feels ok.
As a pure guess, do they know what swingweight/balance a pro prefers and then tweak the MOI using a machine to optimize the weight distribution?

crosscourt
07-18-2008, 01:56 PM
Spent at least an hour w. this racquet this morning under very heavy conditions. Very warm and humid, slow har-tru, and a fine drizzle. Hit in both drill format and point play format playing 7/11 games.

Racquet strung at 52 w. Klip Excellerator17 which is the string I always use in a playtest racquet

Dont know what all you guys are interested in knowing and will try and keep this pretty short as best as i can. I really enjoyed my hit w. this racquet. It's very solid and comfortable and had ample power to it. Flatter trajectory than my usual ralley ball which was expected. Hit everything well with it...was best at groundstroking, served fine, quick on service returns and volleyed well but I think volleying was its weaker point and this could be more a function of the way the racquet is set up balancewise and the very small gripsize more than anything else. I dont think the swingweight could be over 325..so that would make it in the 330 range strung w. poly. I can see how a pro could really smoke the ball with a racquet like this. use really big batspeed with poly for spin and control. lots of ball speed and control and could penetrate the court even with the heavy conditions without trying to force my strokes.

I learned something by hitting with a setup like that. That you can hit a solid heavy ball with a lighter frame like this provided the racquet isnt so headlight. You really could feel some mass in the head on groundstrokes ...it really helped pull the racquethead through and helps you hit some big groundstrokes. In the future, I'm going to morph into racquets with this type of static weight and balance.

I am interested if anyone knows what someone like Warren Bosworth might do to customize a racquet like this from a measurement point of view. I know about silicone in the handle and lead tape of course, but I understand the pro customizers are more about MOI than swingweight..do they have a special machine which measures this??? there is obviously a lot more to this than what people do at home by slapping lead around until it feels ok.
As a pure guess, do they know what swingweight/balance a pro prefers and then tweak the MOI using a machine to optimize the weight distribution?

Yes -- as I understand it you start with a preferred balance and swingweight and then make the racket up from there. But static weight is also important. Whenever I speak to soemone who does this sort of thing they can always tell you what leading pros do by ref to weight, swingweight and balance. The guys maintain that they can give you any combination in any racket. So if you want the Agassi set up you go for 355/335/6 or whatever it actually is.

cc

travlerajm
07-18-2008, 02:07 PM
I understand the pro customizers are more about MOI than swingweight..do they have a special machine which measures this??? there is obviously a lot more to this than what people do at home by slapping lead around until it feels ok.
As a pure guess, do they know what swingweight/balance a pro prefers and then tweak the MOI using a machine to optimize the weight distribution?

Swingweight and MOI are the same thing. If that racquet has a weight of 11.5 oz strung, and it is evenly balanced, then it is highly dubious that the swingweight is below 330. 350 would be more expected for that weight and balance, unless the silicone was added to the throat.

NoBadMojo
07-18-2008, 02:20 PM
Swingweight and MOI are the same thing. If that racquet has a weight of 11.5 oz strung, and it is evenly balanced, then it is highly dubious that the swingweight is below 330. 350 would be more expected for that weight and balance, unless the silicone was added to the throat.


the swingweight is def below 330..it is nowhere close to 350. i hear MOI numbers thrown around which are 2 digit numbers and believe there is a machine which measure this differently than what an RDC machine does

NoBadMojo
07-18-2008, 02:47 PM
A quick google revealed this machine for those interested. Hooks into a pc so I assume you can do what if scenarios with it. used for golf clubs which are obviously swung, so no reason why it wouldnt be useful for tennis ---> http://www.idicb.com/moimeas.htm

travlerajm
07-18-2008, 02:53 PM
A quick google revealed this machine for those interested. Hooks into a pc so I assume you can do what if scenarios with it. used for golf clubs which are obviously swung, so no reason why it wouldnt be useful for tennis ---> http://www.idicb.com/moimeas.htm

I think it's interesting that every driver on the market comes with the twistweight spec. When will tennis technology catch up to golf?

Twistweight MOI is just as important in tennis as it is to golf.

vsbabolat
07-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Spent at least an hour w. this racquet this morning under very heavy conditions. Very warm and humid, slow har-tru, and a fine drizzle. Hit in both drill format and point play format playing 7/11 games.

Racquet strung at 52 w. Klip Excellerator17 which is the string I always use in a playtest racquet

Dont know what all you guys are interested in knowing and will try and keep this pretty short as best as i can. I really enjoyed my hit w. this racquet. It's very solid and comfortable and had ample power to it. Flatter trajectory than my usual ralley ball which was expected. Hit everything well with it...was best at groundstroking, served fine, quick on service returns and volleyed well but I think volleying was its weaker point and this could be more a function of the way the racquet is set up balancewise and the very small gripsize more than anything else. I dont think the swingweight could be over 325..so that would make it in the 330 range strung w. poly. I can see how a pro could really smoke the ball with a racquet like this. use really big batspeed with poly for spin and control. lots of ball speed and control and could penetrate the court even with the heavy conditions without trying to force my strokes.

I learned something by hitting with a setup like that. That you can hit a solid heavy ball with a lighter frame like this provided the racquet isnt so headlight. You really could feel some mass in the head on groundstrokes ...it really helped pull the racquethead through and helps you hit some big groundstrokes. In the future, I'm going to morph into racquets with this type of static weight and balance.

I am interested if anyone knows what someone like Warren Bosworth might do to customize a racquet like this from a measurement point of view. I know about silicone in the handle and lead tape of course, but I understand the pro customizers are more about MOI than swingweight..do they have a special machine which measures this??? there is obviously a lot more to this than what people do at home by slapping lead around until it feels ok.
As a pure guess, do they know what swingweight/balance a pro prefers and then tweak the MOI using a machine to optimize the weight distribution?


Mojo, was this your first time with the Pro Tour 630? It is still one of the more popular HEAD racquets out on the Tour today.

When HEAD manufactures the racquets for the Pros in Austria (HEAD is still manufacturing the Pros racquets in Austria) they manufacture them lighter. HEAD does not add any weights to the racquet like they would for the retail versions. This allows for customization either by HEAD themselves or by a customizer.

I know that RPNY has proprietary equipment that measures the MOI that is hooked up to a PC.

You can customize and match racquets yourself at home. There is no reason one can't when you have a scale and a balance board with the help of these two computer programs.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.html
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

Pro_Tour_630
07-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Mojo, was this your first time with the Pro Tour 630?
yes this is mojo's first time with a 16 year old virgin errr :confused:I mean PT630:). thank god he did not use the Mojo set up on her, it would have rendered it useless LOL. he knew better:)

Pro_Tour_630
07-18-2008, 06:09 PM
MOI takes into account twisting around the axis

jmsx521
07-18-2008, 07:07 PM
I watched him around three months ago live, and he was with the Babolat. I watched him live 1.5 years ago as well, and he was again with the Babolat.

J011yroger
07-18-2008, 07:11 PM
MOI takes into account twisting around the axis

Yo! Are you healthy yet?

Let's press those PTs into service, and see how that angel hair pasta you use for string holds up to some heavy hitting :)

J

Pro_Tour_630
07-18-2008, 07:32 PM
Yo! Are you healthy yet?

Let's press those PTs into service, and see how that angel hair pasta you use for string holds up to some heavy hitting :)

J

excuse moi:), ooops not momentum of inertia (MOI)....... it is capellini to you, excuse my french :shock:

I am worse with injuries, but there is a former ATP tour player I want you to met who will be in town, maybe you two can hookup, let me know.

J011yroger
07-18-2008, 08:06 PM
excuse moi:), ooops not momentum of inertia (MOI)....... it is capellini to you, excuse my french :shock:

I am worse with injuries, but there is a former ATP tour player I want you to met who will be in town, maybe you two can hookup, let me know.

Capelli d'angelo. But, I prefer my strings al dente.

Working with a former tour guy now, they are still incredibly good, may no longer have the movement or the steam, but that talent thing just doesn't go away.

Dont want to de-rail the thread, but for sure e-mail me when you are healthy.

J

NoBadMojo
07-18-2008, 08:34 PM
Mojo, was this your first time with the Pro Tour 630? It is still one of the more popular HEAD racquets out on the Tour today.

When HEAD manufactures the racquets for the Pros in Austria (HEAD is still manufacturing the Pros racquets in Austria) they manufacture them lighter. HEAD does not add any weights to the racquet like they would for the retail versions. This allows for customization either by HEAD themselves or by a customizer.

I know that RPNY has proprietary equipment that measures the MOI that is hooked up to a PC.

You can customize and match racquets yourself at home. There is no reason one can't when you have a scale and a balance board with the help of these two computer programs.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.html
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

No..I have hit the 630 before. a decent frame in its time but not for me..for the record, i am not a fan of the c10 either..i like the t10 mold. i wouldnt call the frame i hit a pt630 anyway..the Bogomolov frame..it has holes in it at 3 and 9. i dig what you are saying about how the factory makes them lightweight to allow customization. i think i was sponsored by Head for about 4 years.. back then you couldnt get the Prestige here, you got the TriSys300...i played those but most liked the aquablue frame from Head ...the one David Wheaton used? Graphite Pro? maybe you will say that is the same mold as the PT630..i thought it was a firmer hit...all i know is there were many times more pros swinging Prestiges or paintjobs thereof back then compared to ps85's
i think as far as the customization goes..i think the customizers do take the question mark out of the equipment equation. they can tell a pro they have optimized their racquets for the maximum MOI or whatever..this pros frame didnt transform me.. i had to make it work, but clearly Bosworth tweaked these frames better than someone could do at home.

ps. I just slugged down the entire bottle of Ginkgo Biloba thus introducing a memory attack and recall the Wheaton type frame I used didnt have the grooves mentioned earlier, therefore couldnt have come from that pt mold...anyway..i thought that was a really nice frame

vsbabolat
07-18-2008, 09:25 PM
I have the Graphite Pro. You are right it is a much older design than the PT630 and the Graphite Pro has the NON-Groove (Flat) throat area.


I don't think any frame or set up is going to transform anyone. I think it is matter of finding a frame and set up that is going to complement ones game. The racquet is never going to play for you despite what the marketing department of the racquet companies tell you.

crosscourt
07-18-2008, 11:34 PM
It could be that people talk about MoI. If they do they may be using the term loosely to talk about what is really mass and acceleration.

cc

roundiesee
07-19-2008, 02:25 AM
PT630 and vsbabolat- thanks! You guys are the best when it comes to head rackets!
NoBad- thanks for posting this! Very interesting and informative.
So it does seem that pros do use rackets which are custom-made for them and the public can't get their hands on??

NoBadMojo
07-19-2008, 07:41 AM
PT630 and vsbabolat- thanks! You guys are the best when it comes to head rackets!
NoBad- thanks for posting this! Very interesting and informative.
So it does seem that pros do use rackets which are custom-made for them and the public can't get their hands on??

sure..you're welcome

I have the Graphite Pro. You are right it is a much older design than the PT630 and the Graphite Pro has the NON-Groove (Flat) throat area.


I don't think any frame or set up is going to transform anyone. I think it is matter of finding a frame and set up that is going to complement ones game. The racquet is never going to play for you despite what the marketing department of the racquet companies tell you.

yes, but having frames matched and tweaked for a pro does allow them to play their best tennis. at that level of play any small gear advantage can make a big difference I think, unlike a club player who needs to worry less about their gear and more about their technique

anyway, i thought this all worthwhile sharing and i enjoyed my time w. this racquet. i'll likely sell them if you or anyone else can give them a good home..there are two of them

BounceHitBounceHit
07-19-2008, 11:26 AM
Swingweight and MOI are the same thing. If that racquet has a weight of 11.5 oz strung, and it is evenly balanced, then it is highly dubious that the swingweight is below 330. 350 would be more expected for that weight and balance, unless the silicone was added to the throat.''

Hey T-Jam,

Good to see you back in the fold! ;)

I wanted to ask you to check out my review of Jo11y's "J90". The beast is a modified US K90 with the following specs: 14.1oz/9pts HL/SW 405!!! :)

Best,

CC

J011yroger
07-19-2008, 05:18 PM
''

Hey T-Jam,

Good to see you back in the fold! ;)

I wanted to ask you to check out my review of Jo11y's "J90". The beast is a modified US K90 with the following specs: 14.1oz/9pts HL/SW 405!!! :)

Best,

CC

Dunno what trav will think. But I am pretty sure you agree with me that on the J90, the stats don't tell the whole story.

J

NoBadMojo
07-19-2008, 07:23 PM
Based on TW forum logic, Jollyrancher is a much better player than Bogomolov..his racquet is MUCH heavier, the headsize is smaller, and I bet he strings much tighter as well.

J011yroger
07-19-2008, 08:28 PM
Based on TW forum logic, Jollyrancher is a much better player than Bogomolov..his racquet is MUCH heavier, the headsize is smaller, and I bet he strings much tighter as well.

?

J

WChiang
07-20-2008, 06:30 AM
Based on TW forum logic, Jollyrancher is a much better player than Bogomolov..his racquet is MUCH heavier, the headsize is smaller, and I bet he strings much tighter as well.

What is "TW forum logic"? (and what does it have to do with Jolly's stick vs some pro player?)

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 08:53 AM
You can customize and match racquets yourself at home. There is no reason one can't when you have a scale and a balance board with the help of these two computer programs.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customization.html
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

ok, you're on. if I get inspired I will grab a Becker 11 Light which likely started out approximately w. a similar weight and balance to the way the Bogo frame was born. It should be an easy matter to get the static weight and balance identical to the Bogo frames, and will be interesting to see if they actually will swing the same as a result.
bear in mind that i've always played my racquets stock other than leather grips save for playing the gen1's (on those, i removed weight from 3 and 9).

anyone recommending a decent grams scale for not a lot of money?

couch
07-20-2008, 09:01 AM
anyone recommending a decent grams scale for not a lot of money?

Hey Mojo, you can get a simple scale at Target for about $10 or so. I picked one up a couple years ago from there. They are located in the kitchen area I think. It has a conversion for ounces to grams and works great for the price.

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 09:40 AM
Hey Mojo, you can get a simple scale at Target for about $10 or so. I picked one up a couple years ago from there. They are located in the kitchen area I think. It has a conversion for ounces to grams and works great for the price.

thanks Couch..i just looked onn Flea Bay and they have Jewelry gram scales for 12.49 including shipping. they are small, but no reason they wouldnt work? the weight range is right and it says it works for mail..so why not? here's the scoop
<paste>

Description :

Brand New 500g x 0.1 Digital Pocket Jewelry Scale








STAINLESS STELL WEIGHING PLATFORM

Brand New Digital Pocket Jewelry Scale 500g x 0.1 retail $59.99



http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/ez2bid/NEW_NEW_MI500_01.jpg


Demension: 4.2" x 2.75"

Mode
Capacity
Accuracy
Gram
500
+/- 0.1
Ounce
17.635
+/- 0.01
Carats
2500
+/- 0.5
Grains
7716
+/- 2







Description:







Arrive new in box, pre-calibrated. Excellent for high-precision measurements. Ideal for weighing gold, silver, precious gems, herbs, and mail. Blue backlight allows easy reading in any light conditions. The pocket scale you are bidding for comes in Silver color.






Features:

Huge 500 gram Capacity
Easy to read blue backlight
Low battery indicator
Overload feature
Sleek flip top design with study case
Scale power by 2 x AAA Battery (included Free $1.99 Value)
Auto shutoff if not use in one minute
Dimension: 4.2" x 2.75"

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 11:12 AM
ok, you're on. if I get inspired I will grab a Becker 11 Light which likely started out approximately w. a similar weight and balance to the way the Bogo frame was born. It should be an easy matter to get the static weight and balance identical to the Bogo frames, and will be interesting to see if they actually will swing the same as a result.
bear in mind that i've always played my racquets stock other than leather grips save for playing the gen1's (on those, i removed weight from 3 and 9).

anyone recommending a decent grams scale for not a lot of money?

It doesn't exactly work that way Mojo. You can have two frames with the exact same weight and balance, but with vastly different swingweights, and the frames may play nothing alike if you don't have the weight distribution the same.

So to really get on the right path, you would need to know where the weight was added to the Bogostick. Because without a way to measure SW, and starting with a completely different frame, not even the same model, you are really shooting in the dark.

Call up Bosworth, tell them what you have, and ask them where they add the lead to the Bogostick. At least having that info can help you replicate with the 11. They are some real cool peeps and I am sure they will help you out with the info. They do my bud's grips for him, since forever.

Here is a quote from me in another thread to illustrate the point, bear in mind that both frames have the same static weight and balance point.

As promised 2 pics. Both racquets have the same weight and balance, the one with the weight at 12 is a weapon, the one with the weight all over is more sluggish, cumbersome, and vague.

http://i18.tinypic.com/6h8fij8.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/5438xz9.jpg

J

J

vsbabolat
07-20-2008, 11:22 AM
It doesn't exactly work that way Mojo. You can have two frames with the exact same weight and balance, but with vastly different swingweights, and the frames may play nothing alike if you don't have the weight distribution the same.

So to really get on the right path, you would need to know where the weight was added to the Bogostick. Because without a way to measure SW, and starting with a completely different frame, not even the same model, you are really shooting in the dark.

Call up Bosworth, tell them what you have, and ask them where they add the lead to the Bogostick. At least having that info can help you replicate with the 11. They are some real cool peeps and I am sure they will help you out with the info. They do my bud's grips for him, since forever.

Here is a quote from me in another thread to illustrate the point, bear in mind that both frames have the same static weight and balance point.



J

J011y, I gave Mojo away to get the swingweight without a RDC machine.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

Once you have the the mass, the balance, and the swingweight of the two racquets you then use this program to plug in your numbers. The program will then tell you were and how much to the weight to Mojo's BB11L to match it to Bogomolov's racquet.

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 11:25 AM
It doesn't exactly work that way Mojo. You can have two frames with the exact same weight and balance, but with vastly different swingweights, and the frames may play nothing alike if you don't have the weight distribution the same.

So to really get on the right path, you would need to know where the weight was added to the Bogostick. Because without a way to measure SW, and starting with a completely different frame, not even the same model, you are really shooting in the dark.

Call up Bosworth, tell them what you have, and ask them where they add the lead to the Bogostick. At least having that info can help you replicate with the 11. They are some real cool peeps and I am sure they will help you out with the info. They do my bud's grips for him, since forever.

Here is a quote from me in another thread to illustrate the point, bear in mind that both frames have the same static weight and balance point.



J

right...that was my point. you can have two racquets with the same weight and balance which dont swing anything alike. in fact, if from different brands, there is a much better chance they wont swing alike, than they will I believe. goes back to my original point of how the pro customizers max out the weight distribution to get the best performance (return the most energy to the ball with the preferred swingweight and I do think they use a specialized machine <which isnt an rdc> to get this right as i posted earlier in the thread. big spender that i am, i spurged for the 15.98 digital scale..can use it for mail and such anyway..i bet my customization experience will be shortlived :0 thanks for the help

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 11:26 AM
J011y, I gave Mojo away to get the swingweight without a RDC machine.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

Once you have the swingeight of the two racquets, the balance, and the mass you then use this program to plug in you numbers.

How barbaric! Mojo has to know someone with an RDC or PTC.

J

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 11:31 AM
J011y, I gave Mojo away to get the swingweight without a RDC machine.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/howto_swingweight.html

Once you have the the mass, the balance, and the swingweight of the two racquets you then use this program to plug in your numbers. The program will then tell you were and how much to the weight to Mojo's BB11L.

do you think this method of measurement can be done with any sort of accuracy approaching that of a machine? have you ever measured sw this way? were your results all over the map?

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 11:35 AM
I can't imagine that method being at all accurate with something very HH or HL since you are swinging the wrong end.

Jollyroger does not approve of this bogus method!

:)

J

vsbabolat
07-20-2008, 11:43 AM
do you think this method of measurement can be done with any sort of accuracy approaching that of a machine? have you ever measured sw this way? were your results all over the map?

I have to admit I am very lucky to have a Babolat RDC machine at my disposal. So I have not had to use the TW University swing weight calculation method. I think Crawford Lindsay developed the programs and works for Tennis-warehouse. I am sure you could e-mail Crawford and he can answer all of your questions before you get started on your project.

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 11:45 AM
I can't imagine that method being at all accurate with something very HH or HL since you are swinging the wrong end.

Jollyroger does not approve of this bogus method!

:)

J

i agree...too many variables which arent precisely repeatable. think i will limit this project to static weight and balance. leather grip, weight at 3 and 9, some around the grip collar cuff and call it a day :) 20 minutes, and I'm out.

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 11:47 AM
right...that was my point. you can have two racquets with the same weight and balance which dont swing anything alike. in fact, if from different brands, there is a much better chance they wont swing alike, than they will I believe. goes back to my original point of how the pro customizers max out the weight distribution to get the best performance (return the most energy to the ball with the preferred swingweight and I do think they use a specialized machine <which isnt an rdc> to get this right as i posted earlier in the thread. big spender that i am, i spurged for the 15.98 digital scale..can use it for mail and such anyway..i bet my customization experience will be shortlived :0 thanks for the help

Ya man, I got one of those cheepo postal scales, I think for $19.99. Couldn't be more happy with it.

Tom Martinez, who does my frames, has a different machine which measures something other than SW, I really don't understand how it works, but he isn't really using it to maximize anything, since I just give him the spec racquet which I did, and he makes all the others exactly like the spec racquet.

I really don't think there is much maximizing this or that, it is just a question of what you are trying to accomplish, and what you like swinging. And of course, how you want to play the game.

SW isn't the be-all end-all either, in the two pics I posted, the one with the weight in the middle, has a much lower SW, while the one with the weight at 12 has a much higher SW. In playing them however, the one with the weight in the middle is far more sluggish, and difficult to get around, and put a good swing on the ball.

J

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 12:03 PM
Ya man, I got one of those cheepo postal scales, I think for $19.99. Couldn't be more happy with it.

Tom Martinez, who does my frames, has a different machine which measures something other than SW, I really don't understand how it works, but he isn't really using it to maximize anything, since I just give him the spec racquet which I did, and he makes all the others exactly like the spec racquet.

I really don't think there is much maximizing this or that, it is just a question of what you are trying to accomplish, and what you like swinging. And of course, how you want to play the game.

SW isn't the be-all end-all either, in the two pics I posted, the one with the weight in the middle, has a much lower SW, while the one with the weight at 12 has a much higher SW. In playing them however, the one with the weight in the middle is far more sluggish, and difficult to get around, and put a good swing on the ball.

J

i'm down with this...i discovered a frame with a little less headlight balance in my swingweight range allows me to hit a more imposing ball from the backcourt, so i learned something. think the key is to get more mass in the head, but still keep it headlight enough to be able to serve and volley and return well with. i've always played very headlight racquets, but the game has changed and backcourting is more important than ever now. maybe this will help someone else.
i dont need anything more fancy customizingwise for my lowly 5.0 *** ;)..would be diff if i was being sent racquets which dont swing alike as i am very picky that way and think all your bats should swing alike

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 12:16 PM
in the two pics I posted, the one with the weight in the middle, has a much lower SW, while the one with the weight at 12 has a much higher SW. In playing them however, the one with the weight in the middle is far more sluggish, and difficult to get around, and put a good swing on the ball.

J

I think this is one of the main differences between the T90, n90 and K90. The two former frames seem to me to have too much weight concentrated in the middle, perhaps around the throat area. Thus they play 'sluggishly', esp. at net. In contrast, my 'polarized' AK90's and even my stock US K90's (and certainly the MASSIVE J90, which I suspect has a 'polarized' weighting scheme) feel very 'quick' and 'nimble' at net. Opinions? :) Best, CC

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 12:17 PM
i'm down with this...i discovered a frame with a little less headlight balance in my swingweight range allows me to hit a more imposing ball from the backcourt, so i learned something. think the key is to get more mass in the head, but still keep it headlight enough to be able to serve and volley and return well with. i've always played very headlight racquets, but the game has changed and backcourting is more important than ever now. maybe this will help someone else.
i dont need anything more fancy customizingwise for my lowly 5.0 *** ;)..would be diff if i was being sent racquets which dont swing alike as i am very picky that way and think all your bats should swing alike

Now that mine are all the same, exactly, I could never go back to the other way.

Used to just deal with it, because it wasn't an option, now I am spoiled.

Nice to know if you soak an overgrip, and feel your racquet slip a bit, you can just walk over to your bag, grab another frame, step to the line and crack your serve without missing a beat.

As far as backcourting vs. netplay.

One thing you might not consider. When you drill your volleys, maybe the more HL frame seems better. But If you are hitting a more imposing ball off the ground, it makes your approach shots that much better, which as you know, makes in game volleying that much easier.

And if you aren't hurting the guy bad with your approach, you are getting passed, or at least I am with my Caddillac like reflexes.

J

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 12:24 PM
i'm down with this...i discovered a frame with a little less headlight balance in my swingweight range allows me to hit a more imposing ball from the backcourt, so i learned something. think the key is to get more mass in the head, but still keep it headlight enough to be able to serve and volley and return well with. i've always played very headlight racquets, but the game has changed and backcourting is more important than ever now. maybe this will help someone else.
i dont need anything more fancy customizingwise for my lowly 5.0 *** ;)..would be diff if i was being sent racquets which dont swing alike as i am very picky that way and think all your bats should swing alike

Ya Mon. ;) That's why my AK90's wound up only 4pts HL, but 'polarized' and of 'medium' static weight (347 grams). ;) So configured they hit a heavy, 'spinny' ball off the ground but feel like rapiers at net and on serves/overheads.

I've had fun with the J90, but doubt I'll actually make the switch. However my experience with it did wind up leading me to try and make my US K90's a bit heavier AND more HL, but think the way to go (if I make any change at all) might be to take an AK90 or two and add even more weight to the handle, making them heavier, but still 'polarized' and a smidgeon more HL. ;)

BTW, this is why I enjoyed posting the J90 review so much. It gets us all thinking and maybe trying new things, like you did with the Bogie Stick. (could we rename it 'The Boogie Stick', just for some vintage 70's disco fun??) In the process we learn. Isn't that one of the great things about tennis? Specifically that it can never be mastered?

Best,

CC

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 12:26 PM
I think this is one of the main differences between the T90, n90 and K90. The two former frames seem to me to have too much weight concentrated in the middle, perhaps around the throat area. Thus they play 'sluggishly', esp. at net. In contrast, my 'polarized' AK90's and even my stock US K90's (and certainly the MASSIVE J90, which I suspect has a 'polarized' weighting scheme) feel very 'quick' and 'nimble' at net. Opinions? :) Best, CC

The J is extremely polarized, that is why it comes around so easily and quickly despite its obcene appearing SW, and why you get so much more action and pace on the ball.

And it is certainly no chore to move around at net, even in heated dubs exchanges I find myself getting the upper hand often.

Singles netplay for me doesn't really count since I try to take out a lung with my approach and leave little to chance in the actual volleying.

Have you found yourself ending more points from the backcourt with the J90, either by forcing errors, or otherwise? And have you noticed that it is harder for opponents to change direction on your rally balls?

J

travlerajm
07-20-2008, 12:31 PM
I think this is one of the main differences between the T90, n90 and K90. The two former frames seem to me to have too much weight concentrated in the middle, perhaps around the throat area. Thus they play 'sluggishly', esp. at net. In contrast, my 'polarized' AK90's and even my stock US K90's (and certainly the MASSIVE J90, which I suspect has a 'polarized' weighting scheme) feel very 'quick' and 'nimble' at net. Opinions? :) Best, CC

Some general rules of thumb:

If two racquets have the same weight and balance, but different swingweights, then the more polarized one (i.e., higher swingweight) will be more powerful.

If two racquets have the same weight and swingweight, but different balance, then the more polarized one (i.e., more HL balance) will be less powerful, more spin-friendly, and more maneuverable at net.

Note: There are some extreme cases where these rules don't apply.

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 12:41 PM
Ya Mon. That's why my AK90's wound up only 4pts HL, but 'polarized' and of 'medium' static weight (347 grams). So configured they hit a heavy, 'spinny' ball off the ground but feel like rapiers at net and on serves/overheads.

I've had fun with the J90, but doubt I'll actually make the switch. However my experience with it did wind up leading me to try and make my US K90's a bit heavier AND more HL, but think the way to go (if I make any change at all) might be to take an AK90 or two and add even more weight to the handle, making them heavier, but still 'polarized' and a smidgeon more HL. ;)

BTW, this is why I enjoyed posting the J90 review so much. It gets us all thinking and maybe trying new things, like you did with the Bogie Stick. (could we rename it 'The Boogie Stick', just for some vintage 70's disco fun??) In the process we learn. Isn't that one of the great things about tennis? Specifically that it can never be mastered?

Best,

CC

yes...some of my posts and threads like this one are more along the lines of thinking out loud. often i learn that way <at the forums expense> ;) and perhaps someone else here may pick up something useful along the way. it's good to be curious.

if i understand polarization as being more weight in the hoop and handle and less in the throat, i think it is the opposite of what you say. thinking about the nBlade which is extremely sluggish and high in swingweight for its low static weight and balance, and without the mass or strength in the throat area is evidently a fragile frame

i'm still learning tennis and getting better in some respects...if i only might know what i know and be more like Jollyranchers age than mine :)

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 12:47 PM
i'm still learning tennis and getting better in some respects...if i only might know what i know and be more like Jollyranchers age than mine :)

LOL, I am trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can and get as good as I can while I still have the lightning in my arm.

I consider myself a "never was" trying to become a "has been" before it's too late.

J

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 01:06 PM
Now that mine are all the same, exactly, I could never go back to the other way.

Used to just deal with it, because it wasn't an option, now I am spoiled.

Nice to know if you soak an overgrip, and feel your racquet slip a bit, you can just walk over to your bag, grab another frame, step to the line and crack your serve without missing a beat.

As far as backcourting vs. netplay.

One thing you might not consider. When you drill your volleys, maybe the more HL frame seems better. But If you are hitting a more imposing ball off the ground, it makes your approach shots that much better, which as you know, makes in game volleying that much easier.

And if you aren't hurting the guy bad with your approach, you are getting passed, or at least I am with my Caddillac like reflexes.

J

for sure...i am very much less volley and serve/volley dependant than before. many shots that used to be approach shots are now winners <even on the clay> because of the gear and no volley involved, so i am thinking more along the lines of a racquet which allows me to better control points from the backcourt/midcourt and if i do get a volley, make it be a really easy one. PaulyP says I am one of the very few guys left anymore who can hit that crossover step backhand slice approach shot...the low skidding type

to quickly bore you with background, i was s/v on both serves back in the day, went to s/v on firsts and a few 2nds, and now just throw in an occassional s.v to mix it up. the % just isnt there to play much serve/volley tennis these days. So, I now play what I call first strike tennis...i try and use my serve to get a weak return or no return and to end points quickly if a get a weak return or at least get the opposition on their horse. i've been working on my service return to make that more first strike as well so i can more quickly end more points or if i cant, to not hit returns that cause me to be put on my horse, all without generating a boatload of ue's. I call these neutral service returns. I have a lot of variety from the backcourt and try not to give someone the same ball twice and that allows me to change the point from neutral to offensive as well....if i were forced to grind from the back, i would be run ragged at my advancing years in the florida sunshine on slow clay....that's what our buddy PaulyP tries to do to me <that *******>, and i wont allow it ;) the guy runs like rabbit/deer, can run all day, and can run you side to side if you let him..after a steady diet of those, you can stick a fork in me...too much good food and drink and zero gym :) sorry to ramble on about my game..i try and make posts more general in nature.

It's all a bit foreign to me however having picked up racquets which feel so headlight all these years...even this Bogo frame felt odd to me in hand....and then you swing it and all is good.

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 01:14 PM
^^^ Right on, and if you see the guy isn't gonna be able to get a good swing on something, come in and take your chances rather than let him stay in the point, but for sure storming regularly is a tough way to make a living.

J

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 01:19 PM
yes...some of my posts and threads like this one are more along the lines of thinking out loud. often i learn that way <at the forums expense> ;) and perhaps someone else here may pick up something useful along the way. it's good to be curious.

if i understand polarization as being more weight in the hoop and handle and less in the throat, i think it is the opposite of what you say. thinking about the nBlade which is extremely sluggish and high in swingweight for its low static weight and balance, and without the mass or strength in the throat area is evidently a fragile frame

i'm still learning tennis and getting better in some respects...if i only might know what i know and be more like Jollyranchers age than mine

I'm not sure what you mean by 'it is the opposite of what I say'? :confused:

I think it's important to remember I am talking about the SUBJECTIVE experience I have when comparing THREE DIFFERENT FRAMES WITH THREE DIFFERENT STATIC WEIGHTS, BALANCE POINTS, AND SW's. :)

J90: 14.1oz/8pts HL/SW 405
AK90 w/ 'CC' Setup: 347 grams/4pts HL/SW 335
US K90 w/ "J90-Inspired" Setup: 13 oz/12 pts HL/SW ??? (Bolt will chime in)

For me, my recent experience is that the 'polarized' AK90 offers the best 'balance of virtues' for my game: a heavy, spinny ball on the groundstrokes w/ excellent net clearance that is 'nasty off the ground and never feels good coming off your racquet' (a quote from Bolt, uttered just this AM!), nice manuverability at net, and a 'natural' feel when serving or hitting overheads.

My comments concerning 'sluggish' feel at net with frames where there is a good deal of weight concentrated around the throat (a la the T90, for example) might not relate directly to static weight, balance, or SW (indirectly sure, but not directly). ;) My educated guess is that this experience is more closely related to the distribution of mass in the lay-up process. If there is a device that measures this quantity, I'd like to know more about it, because I am willing to bet it is the single most predictive of how a frame 'feels' IN ACTUAL PLAY. I say this because I would have never guessed in a million years that a frame like the 'J90' would feel so good!

Best,

CC

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 01:25 PM
If you thought the J90 was good you are gonna love the Western FH and the 2 hander! I will box them up next week.

J

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 01:32 PM
If you thought the J90 was good you are gonna love the Western FH and the 2 hander! I will box them up next week.

J

Well.............as for the Western FH, I've actually moved my grip around now to a 'true' Semi-Western, at least on 'routine' rally balls where I have plenty of time to set up...........I don't see a 2HBH in my future though.........I tend to almost trip and fall down every time I try to hit one...........;) CC

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 01:37 PM
Well.............as for the Western FH, I've actually moved my grip around now to a 'true' Semi-Western, at least on 'routine' rally balls where I have plenty of time to set up...........I don't see a 2HBH in my future though.........I tend to almost trip and fall down every time I try to hit one...........;) CC


I am sure you float your grip, much like I do depending on what you are trying to do with the ball and court conditions/opponent.

J

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 01:43 PM
I am sure you float your grip, much like I do depending on what you are trying to do with the ball and court conditions/opponent.

J

Correct-a-Mundo! :) CC

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'it is the opposite of what I say'? :confused:

I think it's important to remember I am talking about the SUBJECTIVE experience I have when comparing THREE DIFFERENT FRAMES WITH THREE DIFFERENT STATIC WEIGHTS, BALANCE POINTS, AND SW's. :)

J90: 14.1oz/8pts HL/SW 405
AK90 w/ 'CC' Setup: 347 grams/4pts HL/SW 335
US K90 w/ "J90-Inspired" Setup: 13 oz/12 pts HL/SW ??? (Bolt will chime in)

For me, my recent experience is that the 'polarized' AK90 offers the best 'balance of virtues' for my game: a heavy, spinny ball on the groundstrokes w/ excellent net clearance that is 'nasty off the ground and never feels good coming off your racquet' (a quote from Bolt, uttered just this AM!), nice manuverability at net, and a 'natural' feel when serving or hitting overheads.

My comments concerning 'sluggish' feel at net with frames where there is a good deal of weight concentrated around the throat (a la the T90, for example) might not relate directly to static weight, balance, or SW (indirectly sure, but not directly). ;) My educated guess is that this experience is more closely related to the distribution of mass in the lay-up process. If there is a device that measures this quantity, I'd like to know more about it, because I am willing to bet it is the single most predictive of how a frame 'feels' IN ACTUAL PLAY. I say this because I would have never guessed in a million years that a frame like the 'J90' would feel so good!

Best,

CC


ok...lets take a step back. do you consider the nBlade to be a polarized setup in stock form? assuming so, i based my opinion on that..it's a sluggish frame for its static weight and balance and seems to be void of a lot of weight in the throat / more of it in the hoop and handle depending upon how you look at it. in anycase a very inefficient use of weight and they seem to be weak in the throat. Then again, i think the k90 and k95 are weak in the hoop based upon the upper hoop oscillation but stronger in the throat and that's why the swingweight is an anomoly (registers lower than it swings)..it's just a poor design..no wonder you guys are tricking these things up

maybe the polarized thing only functions if you've got a lot more mass to work with...by the time you get it up to sw2 (whatever that is) and beyond, you've got a racquet that will stuff up almost everyones game....this is one of the reasons why i've been actively posting in this thread....because Bogomolovs frame indicates you dont need a lot of weight to smoke the ball at a hig level of play....he rips it and is able to counter the balls he is receiving with his lighweight racquet, which are far more wicked than anything we face

the j90's may feel so good having something to do w. the silicone implants :)

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 03:24 PM
LOL, I am trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can and get as good as I can while I still have the lightning in my arm.

I consider myself a "never was" trying to become a "has been" before it's too late.

J

ha! you are well on your way to becoming an 'expert'....an 'ex' is a has been and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure???? ..i'm just messin w. you

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 03:26 PM
Well.............as for the Western FH, I've actually moved my grip around now to a 'true' Semi-Western, at least on 'routine' rally balls where I have plenty of time to set up...........I don't see a 2HBH in my future though.........I tend to almost trip and fall down every time I try to hit one...........;) CC

my two handers automatically turn into misshit topspin lobs, altho in order to be qualify to teach tennis i had to be able to hit both a one hander and two. <reliably>.

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 05:13 PM
ok...lets take a step back. do you consider the nBlade to be a polarized setup in stock form? assuming so, i based my opinion on that..it's a sluggish frame for its static weight and balance and seems to be void of a lot of weight in the throat / more of it in the hoop and handle depending upon how you look at it. in anycase a very inefficient use of weight and they seem to be weak in the throat. Then again, i think the k90 and k95 are weak in the hoop based upon the upper hoop oscillation but stronger in the throat and that's why the swingweight is an anomoly (registers lower than it swings)..it's just a poor design..no wonder you guys are tricking these things up

maybe the polarized thing only functions if you've got a lot more mass to work with...by the time you get it up to sw2 (whatever that is) and beyond, you've got a racquet that will stuff up almost everyones game....this is one of the reasons why i've been actively posting in this thread....because Bogomolovs frame indicates you dont need a lot of weight to smoke the ball at a hig level of play....he rips it and is able to counter the balls he is receiving with his lighweight racquet, which are far more wicked than anything we face

the j90's may feel so good having something to do w. the silicone implants :)

I'm not sure what to make of the nBlade 98. I tried it (briefly) and agree completely with your assessment. It felt sluggish, had no power, and I thought my arm was going to fall off when trying to serve with it. On the whole a 'no go' for me too Mojo! ;)

The Boogie Stick sounds interesting and reminds me of my outing recently with the KBlade 98. It plays very well to be so light, but Ian just felt my ball lacked 'umph'. He also didn't like the 'flat'(er) trajectory I was producing.

Best,

CC

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm not sure what to make of the nBlade 98. I tried it (briefly) and agree completely with your assessment. It felt sluggish, had no power, and I thought my arm was going to fall off when trying to serve with it. On the whole a 'no go' for me too Mojo! ;)

The Boogie Stick sounds interesting and reminds me of my outing recently with the KBlade 98. It plays very well to be so light, but Ian just felt my ball lacked 'umph'. He also didn't like the 'flat'(er) trajectory I was producing.

Best,

CC

What are your thoughts about the hoop oscillation of the k90 and 95? Some people insist these frames are the closest feel to wood...not possible for a 67 flex composite frame to feel anything at all like a 40 flex wood unless the hoop is oscillating....something which was inherent to the wood feel. the hoops on wooden frames had to be made thinner and therefore weaker or the racquet would be far too heavy to be usable

Bolt
07-20-2008, 05:42 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'it is the opposite of what I say'? :confused:

I think it's important to remember I am talking about the SUBJECTIVE experience I have when comparing THREE DIFFERENT FRAMES WITH THREE DIFFERENT STATIC WEIGHTS, BALANCE POINTS, AND SW's. :)

J90: 14.1oz/8pts HL/SW 405
AK90 w/ 'CC' Setup: 347 grams/4pts HL/SW 335
US K90 w/ "J90-Inspired" Setup: 13 oz/12 pts HL/SW ??? (Bolt will chime in)

For me, my recent experience is that the 'polarized' AK90 offers the best 'balance of virtues' for my game: a heavy, spinny ball on the groundstrokes w/ excellent net clearance that is 'nasty off the ground and never feels good coming off your racquet' (a quote from Bolt, uttered just this AM!), nice manuverability at net, and a 'natural' feel when serving or hitting overheads.

My comments concerning 'sluggish' feel at net with frames where there is a good deal of weight concentrated around the throat (a la the T90, for example) might not relate directly to static weight, balance, or SW (indirectly sure, but not directly). ;) My educated guess is that this experience is more closely related to the distribution of mass in the lay-up process. If there is a device that measures this quantity, I'd like to know more about it, because I am willing to bet it is the single most predictive of how a frame 'feels' IN ACTUAL PLAY. I say this because I would have never guessed in a million years that a frame like the 'J90' would feel so good!

Best,

CC

The swingweight of the US K90 w/ "J90-Inspired" Setup calculated out at 335. For comparison purposes, the J90 calculated at 409.

Also, to be accurate, the description I feel best describes your groundstrokes with the AK90 is DIRTY!

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 06:05 PM
the j90's may feel so good having something to do w. the silicone implants :)

NOW we've found our way to the heart of this matter! :) CC

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 06:13 PM
my two handers automatically turn into misshit topspin lobs, altho in order to be qualify to teach tennis i had to be able to hit both a one hander and two. <reliably>.

Huh-oh! I better start learning to use two hands if I want that second career I've been planning. CC

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 06:16 PM
The swingweight of the US K90 w/ "J90-Inspired" Setup calculated out at 335. For comparison purposes, the J90 calculated at 409.

Also, to be accurate, the description I feel best describes your groundstrokes with the AK90 is DIRTY!

Interesting..........I seem to be an expert at making frames have a SW of 335. :) As you may recall, my 'stock' US K90's, as well as my AK 90's (and now, my Jo11y inspired US K90's) ALL ended up with a SW of 335 when they felt 'right' to me. Guess I know what my preferred SW is, huh Mojo? :) CC

J011yroger
07-20-2008, 06:30 PM
409?

J

NoBadMojo
07-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Interesting..........I seem to be an expert at making frames have a SW of 335. :) As you may recall, my 'stock' US K90's, as well as my AK 90's (and now, my Jo11y inspired US K90's) ALL ended up with a SW of 335 when they felt 'right' to me. Guess I know what my preferred SW is, huh Mojo? :) CC

Knowing thy swingweight shall set you free......;O

BounceHitBounceHit
07-20-2008, 06:38 PM
Knowing thy swingweight shall set you free......;O

It would appear I can take any frame, and if I fool/tinker with it long enough, produce a frame w/ a SW of 335. :) CC

NoBadMojo
07-21-2008, 09:34 AM
It would appear I can take any frame, and if I fool/tinker with it long enough, produce a frame w/ a SW of 335. :) CC

You must be Mr Wizard ;) Do I assume you have access to a RDC machine?

BounceHitBounceHit
07-21-2008, 10:24 AM
You must be Mr Wizard ;) Do I assume you have access to a RDC machine?

I have intermittent access to a RDC, but all the SW numbers I've quoted here of late are drawn from Mr. Bolt's analysis. He's pretty good with numbers, that Bolt! ;) Seriously he measured the SW of the J90 at 409, the actual RDC number (from Jo11y) was 405, so that's pretty good.....may a little more than 1% error? Best, CC

Bolt
07-21-2008, 10:38 AM
I have intermittent access to a RDC, but all the SW numbers I've quoted here of late are drawn from Mr. Bolt's analysis. He's pretty good with numbers, that Bolt! ;) Seriously he measured the SW of the J90 at 409, the actual RDC number (from Jo11y) was 405, so that's pretty good.....may a little more than 1% error? Best, CC

Using the weight in grams (398 ) that you posted on the other thread (rather than the less precise 14.1oz you provided yesterday) makes the calculated value come out to 408. That's a 0.74% difference from Jo11y's reported 405.

BounceHitBounceHit
07-21-2008, 12:40 PM
Using the weight in grams (398 ) that you posted on the other thread (rather than the less precise 14.1oz you provided yesterday) makes the calculated value come out to 408. That's a 0.74% difference from Jo11y's reported 405.

Right! I meant to send you the weight in grams (knowing the more precise, the better) but forgot to do so. You are SO thorough! Love it!! :) CC

BounceHitBounceHit
07-21-2008, 12:41 PM
Using the weight in grams (398 ) that you posted on the other thread (rather than the less precise 14.1oz you provided yesterday) makes the calculated value come out to 408. That's a 0.74% difference from Jo11y's reported 405.

I would think that amount of error is inherent within the machine itself......ie that two different RDC measurements of the same frame might easily vary by as much just by chance alone. Does anyone here know for sure? Best, CC

J011yroger
07-21-2008, 02:33 PM
I would think that amount of error is inherent within the machine itself......ie that two different RDC measurements of the same frame might easily vary by as much just by chance alone. Does anyone here know for sure? Best, CC

You measure each racquet 3 times.

And then you flip it over and do it 3 times.

different results are common, but usually a point or two.

J

18gauge
07-21-2008, 02:46 PM
Mojo -

I've been a lurker on the boards for awhile. I'd love to buy one of the frames if you're willing to sell. Have a PT630 - would love to compare his to the stock frame!

You can email me @ mono414 @ comcast dot net.

Very interesting stuff from all you guys (Jolly, Craig, mojo, etc)

NoBadMojo
07-21-2008, 08:20 PM
Mojo -

I've been a lurker on the boards for awhile. I'd love to buy one of the frames if you're willing to sell. Have a PT630 - would love to compare his to the stock frame!

You can email me @ mono414 @ comcast dot net.

Very interesting stuff from all you guys (Jolly, Craig, mojo, etc)

I'll bet you wont find a great deal of resemblance in the way the two play and swing. Think the similarity ends with the basic mold, but it has been many years since I hit the old PT. Give us your thoughts after you've spent some time dancing w. her if you like. Mojo

vsbabolat
07-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Mojo, I might be interested in your other Bogomolov racquet. Send me a email through my profile with details. Thanks.

NoBadMojo
07-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Mojo, I might be interested in your other Bogomolov racquet. Send me a email through my profile with details. Thanks.

they've both been sold. no pictures required

18gauge
07-27-2008, 12:42 AM
I'll bet you wont find a great deal of resemblance in the way the two play and swing. Think the similarity ends with the basic mold, but it has been many years since I hit the old PT. Give us your thoughts after you've spent some time dancing w. her if you like. Mojo

Quick Update: received the frame from Mojo (in 2 days! - thanks) - the condition is basically perfect, even better than described.

Called Bosworth - it is NOT a PT57a/PT630 but rather this layup: TGK223.2-B1

It has a custom buttcap shape that is sweet - longer and a less severe "knobiness" if that makes sense. Feels great if you hang your palm over the end.

Have not hit with it yet - getting restrung @ higher tension w/ poly.

NoBadMojo
07-27-2008, 09:07 AM
Quick Update: received the frame from Mojo (in 2 days! - thanks) - the condition is basically perfect, even better than described.

Called Bosworth - it is NOT a PT57a/PT630 but rather this layup: TGK223.2-B1

It has a custom buttcap shape that is sweet - longer and a less severe "knobiness" if that makes sense. Feels great if you hang your palm over the end.

Have not hit with it yet - getting restrung @ higher tension w/ poly.


sure..you're welcome. let us know how it hits for you compared to your other sticks.

NoBadMojo
07-28-2008, 03:10 PM
Quick Update: received the frame from Mojo (in 2 days! - thanks) - the condition is basically perfect, even better than described.

Called Bosworth - it is NOT a PT57a/PT630 but rather this layup: TGK223.2-B1

It has a custom buttcap shape that is sweet - longer and a less severe "knobiness" if that makes sense. Feels great if you hang your palm over the end.

Have not hit with it yet - getting restrung @ higher tension w/ poly.

nothing but the crickets in this thread now since you posted what the frame really is..hope you are enjoying it