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classic tennis
07-22-2008, 04:47 AM
There is a news story on the Australia Yahoo home page by Seven News regarding the Nike Factory in Malaysia paying migrant works six bucks a day....makes interesting viewing !

Klatu Verata Necktie
07-22-2008, 05:18 AM
I couldn't find the story, so I'll ask you. What is the average day's pay in Malaysia for a low skilled worker?

classic tennis
07-22-2008, 05:44 AM
I couldn't find the story, so I'll ask you. What is the average day's pay in Malaysia for a low skilled worker?

I have no Idea but it seems a bit low, especially when their gear is pretty expensive.

try this

http://au.yahoo.com/

Headline Nike contractors using trapped workers

MAX PLY
07-22-2008, 05:55 AM
. . . and the gear would be even more expensive if they have to pay even more for labor. Or, if the labor costs in Malaysia increase beyond the consumers' willingness to pay, Nike will have to go elsewhere for labor, leaving the Malaysian workers with no wages.

jppc
07-22-2008, 06:03 AM
the gear is expensive because of multimillion dollar and euro sponsorships to your favorites sport star. I can only imagine how much does federer and nadal get out of their contracts with nike, and now include all popular sports and the big stars they pay to use their products.. plus the brand value, the iconic image that nike puts itself into, and there you go.. expensive

classic tennis
07-22-2008, 07:42 AM
. . . and the gear would be even more expensive if they have to pay even more for labor. Or, if the labor costs in Malaysia increase beyond the consumers' willingness to pay, Nike will have to go elsewhere for labor, leaving the Malaysian workers with no wages.

Really that's prett wonky logic?, perhaps it would just be that their profit margins were a lot lower?

I think the Malaysian workers are fine it's the imported Bangladesh, Cambodian & Sri Lankan workers that are getting screwed !

I suggest you look at the story to check it out & get the facts.

MAX PLY
07-22-2008, 08:33 AM
I did look at the story and the story contains the same anti-capitalist rant that has been leveled against Nike and other businesses who use labor in these countries for the last 20 years (all you have to do is google "Nike and foreign labor" and you will get all of the "facts" you can stand). The "facts" are that Nike is under no obligation to pay anything more than a competitive wage--that is, if they don't pay enough, folks won't work for them. As far as I can tell, there is no labor shortage in these countries. If the locals feel that they need more money then they can either [1] lobby their local governments for additional labor laws (which Nike and other companies can choose to abide by by staying in country or decide to leave) or [2] refuse to work for the wage offered and work somewhere else. Nike's obligation is to act in the best interest of its shareholders and to maximize profit (what's wrong with that by the way). If consumers or other constituencies rebel in response to these policies and such rebellion adversely affects the shareholders (and this could be something as simple as reputation), then Nike will be obligated to respond.

rockbox
07-22-2008, 08:48 AM
The average salary in malaysia for unskilled labor is about 100 bucks a month. 6 dollars times 20 work days a month equals 120 which is pretty normal.

Lucy Brown
07-22-2008, 10:19 AM
I love all these bleeding hearts that think they have all the answers. These are the same people that dont think twice about hiring a contractor to do work on their home because of a very low bid and not minding that illegal alien laborers are the reason the bid is so low. They dont mind that the orange juice they drink in the morning is priced low because the laborers that pick those oranges are illegals. They'd be the first to start screaming when that quart of OJ goes up from 3.49 to 8 bucks a quart because the orange pickers now are now legals, have a 401 k, belong to a union and get medical benefits. Fact is that companies like Nike are god sends to these 3rd world nations. Without Nike, Adidas etc, these people would have no income.

albino smurf
07-22-2008, 11:16 AM
http://www.expatforum.com/articles/cost-of-living/cost-of-living-in-malaysia.html

I'm sure it is not a plush lifestyle by any means, but the cost of living is a lot lower than in Western countries as well. They might actually be better off than Chinese workers in shoe factories that are touted as worker friendly, like Saucony and New Balance.

IMO factory workers in Malaysia might be in better shape than people who make minimum wage in the US. I will say that I in no way am in favor exploiting workers, but as an exploited worker, I think it just might balance out in the end.

Bhagi Katbamna
07-22-2008, 12:11 PM
By far the people working in those oppressive multi-national companies are there because they are escaping a worse life in their village. And shutting down Nike or any other company will not make the life of the worker there any better.

Drop Shot Master
07-22-2008, 01:23 PM
A sad but true reality is that they are doing work that people in the US refuse to do. Pure supply and demand. Fed/Nadal may make a nice chunk of change, but keep in mind that Nike doesnt do tennis TV ads, so paying Nadal/Fed a total of $15 million a year is way less than a standard TV ad campaign. They are walking ads. The Wimbledon final paid of that investment in one day and then some.

classic tennis
07-23-2008, 12:58 AM
I love all these bleeding hearts that think they have all the answers. These are the same people that dont think twice about hiring a contractor to do work on their home because of a very low bid and not minding that illegal alien laborers are the reason the bid is so low. They dont mind that the orange juice they drink in the morning is priced low because the laborers that pick those oranges are illegals. They'd be the first to start screaming when that quart of OJ goes up from 3.49 to 8 bucks a quart because the orange pickers now are now legals, have a 401 k, belong to a union and get medical benefits. Fact is that companies like Nike are god sends to these 3rd world nations. Without Nike, Adidas etc, these people would have no income.


Bleeding heart? Please!
I spent 12 years in Asia & have visited more factories than you have probably had hot dinners, all I am after is that before all the posters here get barred up over the new Federer headband or the New Nadal Prirate Pants that they realise exactly the conditions they are made under, did you read this story, do you think having your travel documents taken away until you can afford to buy them back is fair? I for one always buy union made & ethical products, I know I'm in a minority but it helps me sleep better.
As for no income in their foreign villages, after they pay the factory for food & lodging (20 in a 15 x 15 m room, communal toilet, eating etc), tax (yes tax) how much of the $42.00 USD for a 7 day week do you think they have to spend on the New Federer or Woods Shirt or save to buy their documents back?

Lucy Brown
07-23-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm not trying to be a wise guy but quite frankly I dont care. I buy what I like and sleep like a baby every night.

albino smurf
07-23-2008, 11:21 AM
I for one always buy union made & ethical products, I know I'm in a minority but it helps me sleep better.

What tennis shoes do you wear? I'd stick to those guidelines, but didn't know there were any decent shoes made by companies that followed conscientious policies.

MAX PLY
07-23-2008, 03:50 PM
Thankfully, I only wear shoes made from the pelts of baby seals.

babolat15
07-23-2008, 08:07 PM
well thats our world for ya

classic tennis
07-24-2008, 06:19 AM
What tennis shoes do you wear? I'd stick to those guidelines, but didn't know there were any decent shoes made by companies that followed conscientious policies.

New Balalance

classic tennis
07-24-2008, 06:19 AM
New Balalance

Sorry not that brand it's ...typo

NEW BALANCE

Barricade V
07-24-2008, 07:17 AM
I watched a movie by Michael Moore talking about these big company's paying people low amounts. Parently Nike's the worst. They pay girls 12-16 40 cents an hour 14 hours a day. They are pretty much helping the government genocide.

albino smurf
07-24-2008, 08:22 AM
I've read a couple of articles about New Balance being made in China where the workers only got 6$ a day and were subject to heavy fines for bathroom breaks, etc.

Got another conscientious company, because I think NB's good rep is strictly marketing BS that is untrue.

classic tennis
07-25-2008, 04:49 AM
I've read a couple of articles about New Balance being made in China where the workers only got 6$ a day and were subject to heavy fines for bathroom breaks, etc.

Got another conscientious company, because I think NB's good rep is strictly marketing BS that is untrue.

Deal in facts they manufacture still in MA & the UK.


www.newbalance.co.uk

& by the way Ashaway in RI & Yonex in Japan.

albino smurf
07-25-2008, 05:38 AM
I'll check those out. Telling me to deal in facts is cute BTW.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_40/b3701119.htm

http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/article.php?article_id=50342

I'm not going to write any snarky crap, but it seems to me as if the good guys aren't so good.

classic tennis
07-25-2008, 06:20 AM
I'll check those out. Telling me to deal in facts is cute BTW.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_40/b3701119.htm

http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/en/web/article.php?article_id=50342

I'm not going to write any snarky crap, but it seems to me as if the good guys aren't so good.

So I am writing sneaky crap?
New Balance still have manufacturing plants in MA & the UK.
But I'm sure the glue they use is toxic to seals or something. Anyway the whole point was started to raise awareness of the forced / held labour in Malaysia not to start a ***** fest !
That's the whole problem with this forum as soon as you raise a issue there are people with nothing better to do than to try & Pi** on you.
Good luck to all & enjoy the summer & play nice kiddies.

albino smurf
07-25-2008, 10:51 AM
So I am writing sneaky crap?

I said snarky, as in I am not going to write some off color comment in response to you telling me to deal in facts. I was trying to keep this thread from going the way you said. I am not trying to be confrontational or anything of that sort. I have done a little research into this subject and am genuinely interested in the subject. I am not sure why you are so bothered by what I wrote, but I was not trying to offend anybody intentionally.

Anyway the whole point was started to raise awareness of the forced / held labour in Malaysia not to start a ***** fest !

My point was that the Chinese factories are not any better, yet these other companies (New Balance, Saucony, etc.) get love from everybody like they are offering 401Ks to their overseas employees.

kabob
07-27-2008, 12:40 AM
I'm not trying to be a wise guy but quite frankly I dont care. I buy what I like and sleep like a baby every night.

Thankfully, I only wear shoes made from the pelts of baby seals.

Us Americans have the luxury to be indifferent, don't we? :twisted:

MAX PLY
07-27-2008, 10:15 AM
Us Americans have the luxury to be indifferent, don't we? :twisted:

Yeah, "Us" do. Work on grammar first, then you can try world economics.

ojingoh
07-27-2008, 07:31 PM
So I am writing sneaky crap?
New Balance still have manufacturing plants in MA & the UK.
But I'm sure the glue they use is toxic to seals or something. Anyway the whole point was started to raise awareness of the forced / held labour in Malaysia not to start a ***** fest !
That's the whole problem with this forum as soon as you raise a issue there are people with nothing better to do than to try & Pi** on you.
Good luck to all & enjoy the summer & play nice kiddies.

Aye it's the glue that apparently is so toxic that you can't use it in the USA or EU legally but in China it's fine. I am not making this up. The entire shoe is made in the US, uppers and soles, then shipped to China, glued together and shipped back. Virtually all shoe companies do this now -- use other countries as assembly that they can't do here. Even the Chinese are pretty mad about it, but the Chinese or Vietnamese equivalent of OSHA just don' give a f***. But outsourcing your dirty work is nothing new, someone else will take the place of CN at some point.

I think it's wrongheaded to think about this in terms of labor costs, because the labor cost of making apparel or shoes isn't everything, the whole picture is very complex. Like: if it's a worldwide product how many places do you want to make a shoe in, and can you make them the same everywhere. Or how much tooling you can do for a shoe in terms of molds made, and does it make sense to bring online 10 factories making the same shoe or 10 factories only doing one type of shoe out of each factory.
This month's Inc. magazine mentions that Nike is thinking about making its new shoes (the ones with the armaid fibers in 'em) in the USA -- not so sure how they'll do the glue -- but it underlines how the 'too lazy to get a job here' argument is not accurate.