PDA

View Full Version : Who was the true pioneer of Babolat rackets? - Moya?


Gabs011
07-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Most people when they think of Babolat think of either Andy Roddick or Rafa Nadal.

But I remember the first person that ever got me interested in their sticks was Carlos Moya. Prior to him I had never seen anyone use a Babolat.

I personally think Babolat have a lot to thank him for. He was Nadal's idol when he was growing up and is one of the main reasons Nadal uses Babolat today.

Anyone else agree that he was/is the true Babolat pioneer? Or was there someone even before him?

NoBadMojo
07-22-2008, 03:02 PM
Most people when they think of Babolat think of either Andy Roddick or Rafa Nadal.

But I remember the first person that ever got me interested in their sticks was Carlos Moya. Prior to him I had never seen anyone use a Babolat.

I personally think Babolat have a lot to thank him for. He was Nadal's idol when he was growing up and is one of the main reasons Nadal uses Babolat today.

Anyone else agree that he was/is the true Babolat pioneer? Or was there someone even before him?

Lots of people think it was Moya. he never used the PureDrive however..his was the soft drive and no woofers

I think the guy who singlehandedly was responsible for the pros switching to the Pure Drive was Alex Corretja. here's a guy with no weapons and when he swtiched all of a sudden he grew a forehand and a much better serve...pros obviously notice stuff like that. I think his move to the PureDrive is similar to the impact that Guga had when he was one of the earliest to switch to Lux strings

matchmaker
07-22-2008, 03:14 PM
I think it was indeed Corretja, who was the true pioneer, although Moya got the brand a lot of publicity.

Pleepers
07-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Lots of people think it was Moya. he never used the PureDrive however..his was the soft drive and no woofers

I think the guy who singlehandedly was responsible for the pros switching to the Pure Drive was Alex Corretja. here's a guy with no weapons and when he swtiched all of a sudden he grew a forehand and a much better serve...pros obviously notice stuff like that. I think his move to the PureDrive is similar to the impact that Guga had when he was one of the earliest to switch to Lux strings


I think it was indeed Corretja, who was the true pioneer, although Moya got the brand a lot of publicity.

You guys can't be serious.

HyperHorse
07-22-2008, 05:18 PM
Corretja didn't use the Pure Drive. It was a Pure Control Xylon 360 or something... Not entirely sure of the model it was, but it def wasn't no stinkin PD....
Perhaps someone else can clarify?

slice bh compliment
07-22-2008, 05:28 PM
iirc, Corretja switched from Wilson to Babolat after Moya switched to Babolat from Prince.

vsbabolat
07-22-2008, 05:31 PM
I think the pioneer of Babolat racquets is Moya. In 1997 Moya got to the Australian Open Finals with a Babolat. In 1998 Moya won the French Open with his Babolat beating Corretja (who was using Wilson at that time). Also in 1998 Moya achieved the number one ranking for a week or two with a Babolat.
In the 1998 French Open Finals Corretja was using Wilson.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Corretja1998FrenchOpen.jpg
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&ep=2&p=alex%20corretja%201998&src=standard#


Corretja did not start to use the Babolat Pure Drive until 2000.

Pleepers
07-22-2008, 06:16 PM
Corretja did not start to use the Babolat Pure Drive until 2000.

Exactly!

I can't believe some of the crap people wrote above. While I agree Moya was probably the main contributor to early Babolat success, I also know Lapentti had a strong influence in Latin America in the late 90's.

bluetrain4
07-22-2008, 08:51 PM
I'm sure someone used a Babolat before Moya, but he was the first really visible player to use it. And, he won a Slam with it. Add to that the fact that he didn't just use any random Babolat, he used the paint job of a Pure Drive, which would become an iconic racquet.

vsbabolat
07-22-2008, 08:53 PM
I'm sure someone used a Babolat before Moya, but he was the first really visible player to use it. And, he won a Slam with it. Add to that the fact that he didn't just use any random Babolat, he used the paint job of a Pure Drive, which would become an iconic racquet.

Babolat only started to sell racquets in 1994. Before that Babolat was strictly a string, Grip, and accessories company.

VGP
07-22-2008, 09:16 PM
Ya gotta factor in Kim Clijsters in on the womens' side.....

bluetrain4
07-22-2008, 09:17 PM
Babolat only started to sell racquets in 1994. Before that Babolat was strictly a string, Grip, and accessories company.

True. But, I'm assuming that someone (even if it was someone ranked 500) used a Babolat at the time they started making racquets. Probably some lower ranked player from France. But, Moya turned pro in 1995, so he really could have been the first overall, not just the first visible player.

jura
07-22-2008, 11:38 PM
Babolat only started to sell racquets in 1994. Before that Babolat was strictly a string, Grip, and accessories company.
As the former product manager of Babolat told me, they started to plan selling rackets in 1994, more in 1995. They searched for a young upcoming player to take under contract. Moya was the perfect choice also because he had no contract at this time using a Prince Synergy Lite which even was a "second choice solution" due to he couldn't get his former rackets anymore.
I heard some rumors that he used Estusa in his younger years. The funny thing is, that the first time when I saw a racket from the later Pure Drive mold (that was in 1992) it had "ESTUSA" written on the bumper!!!
Anyway, in October 1995 Babolat gave Moya some black frames for testing. One of it was extremely light and with a very high balance. He was amazed and within a few hours he decided to switch. I remember that one week in Stuttgart he still used the Prince racket, the next week in Paris-Bercy he played the Babolat black frame (still with the Kirschbaum cherry logo), beating Boris Becker in the first round.
From the mold of the black frame abolat created the first Pure Drive AND the first Soft Drive - these were the same molds. So it's senseless to quarrel if Moya uses/d Pure or Soft Drive. I would say it's more a Pure Drive because when we checked the RA of his racket in 2005 it had 70 - I can't imagine the Soft Drive had 70 RA. And he still uses his old racket without Woofer and with the old string pattern and bumper.
(BTW: From the mold of the first Pure Control the created this year the Pure Storm Ltd.)
So altogether there is no other conclusion that Moya was the first "leading man" for Babolat - and he was a real "lucky punch".

Ross K
07-23-2008, 01:26 AM
. What precisely are the differences between the Pure Drive and the Soft Drive?

. Anyone know a bit of Soft Drive history?

. Do pros/have pros actually played/play with the Soft Drive versions?

Hankenstein
07-23-2008, 04:05 AM
. What precisely are the differences between the Pure Drive and the Soft Drive?

. Anyone know a bit of Soft Drive history?

. Do pros/have pros actually played/play with the Soft Drive versions?

From what I remember the Soft Drive was pretty similar with Pure Drive but the Soft Drive had more light-green color where the pure drive was more skyblue and the SOft Drive had a little bit different shape in the rackethead.

The soft drive had some fibreglass in the construction.

One pro that used the Soft Drive was spaniard Francisco Roig. (Roig was a decent doubles player and I see no reason they would give him a soft drive for marketing reasons..) I saw him in Båstad 1999. The reason I remember it so well is that my favouriteplayer Alberto Berasategui played there and I watched one of their practices when Alberto tried Roig´s racket. After a while Alberto got some wicked topspin with that racket but the first strokes was in the fence.

Berasategui actually used either the Pure Drive or Soft Drive during a short while in his career. I think it was at the end of it.

I remember so well the first time i saw a Pure Drive. It was spring 1996 at a fair in my hometown and i was invited by a sportshop. It was a fair only for the spoorting-goods industry and Babolat had their own stand. A guy with glasses and brown hair from Babolat France showed me the new Pure Drive and i was amazed. I bought one in january 97 and have used the Pure Drive or other Babolat rackets since then with some short exceptions.

Rabbit
07-23-2008, 04:41 AM
Definetly Moya. He was the first guy I saw play with a Babolat and pretty much defined Pure Drive.

I disagree that Corretja only developed 'weapons' after switching to the Pure Drive. Corretja was playing with a Wilson stick when he played his epic match against Pete Sampras at the US Open. If anyone needs any help remembering which match, it was the one in which Sampras threw up on court and aced Corretja on a key second serve. I remember watching that match. I was a Corretja fan from way back and he had a pretty big forehand even then.

While Moya introduced the brand to the masses, Roddick was, IMO, singlehandedly responsible for the rise of popularity of the Pure Drive amongst juniors. After he started his pro career playing with one, every kid on the block wanted one. Babolat has scored another coup signing and retaining Nads. That yellow frame he plays with is big around here as well. On the ladies' side, I agree that Kim Clijsters was a very good sign for them as well.

The number of pros and and frequency with which Babolat appears in the later rounds of tournaments certainly has helped them with market share. They appear to be one of the more popular (and expensive) brands of frames. IMO, having a stable of pros really helps market share in frames.

NoBadMojo
07-23-2008, 04:57 AM
While Moya may have been remembered more by casual observors, Corettja I believe made more impact and caused fellow pros to change to the PD because his game dramatically changed when he switched to the PD. I remember the Sampras throw up match..sampras threw up because Corretja frustrated him with his lack of pace with his Wilson extended frames (whatever they were). as i said, Moya didnt even use the Pure DRive and never has. He was more popular with the fans, but Corretja actually using the Pure Drive I believe made more impact with the fellow pros, and we all know that people want to buy whatever they think the pros use (think the so called fed frame)

slice bh compliment
07-23-2008, 04:59 AM
....
(BTW: From the mold of the first Pure Control the created this year the Pure Storm Ltd.)....

very interesting, thanks, as always.

NoBadMojo
07-23-2008, 05:15 AM
I think the pioneer of Babolat racquets is Moya. In 1997 Moya got to the Australian Open Finals with a Babolat. In 1998 Moya won the French Open with his Babolat beating Corretja (who was using Wilson at that time). Also in 1998 Moya achieved the number one ranking for a week or two with a Babolat.
In the 1998 French Open Finals Corretja was using Wilson.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/Corretja1998FrenchOpen.jpg
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&ep=2&p=alex%20corretja%201998&src=standard#


Corretja did not start to use the Babolat Pure Drive until 2000.

your logic says that whoever used something first must have made the most impact...that often isnt true. Moya didnt even use the PureDrive, and early on really wanst widely known beyond Europe. I think Corretja is responsible for more PROs making the switch and Roddick is more responsible for booming sales of the PD especially in Babs biggest market for this stuff (the US)

vsbabolat
07-23-2008, 05:19 AM
I would just like to point out that 1998 was Corretja best year and that he was playing with Wilson then. Aside from his 1998 French Open Final loss Corretja went on to beat Sapmras and Moya to win the 1998 ATP Tour World Championships.
At the 1998 ATP Tour World Championships (now known as the Tennis Masters Cup). In the semi-finals, he saved three match points on the way to beating Sampras 4–6, 6–3, 7–6. In the final, Corretja faced Moya in a five-set marathon and came back from two sets down to win in 4 hours and 1 minute 3–6, 3–6, 7–5, 6–3, 7–5. Corretja won a career-high five singles titles in 1998 and finished the year ranked World No. 3. In February 1999, Corretja reached his career-high ranking of World No. 2.
Those are some fine results with Wilson.

vsbabolat
07-23-2008, 05:51 AM
your logic says that whoever used something first must have made the most impact...that often isnt true. Moya didnt even use the PureDrive, and early on really wanst widely known beyond Europe. I think Corretja is responsible for more PROs making the switch and Roddick is more responsible for booming sales of the PD especially in Babs biggest market for this stuff (the US)

I think Moya was the pioneer of a Babolat racquets. The OP asked who was the pioneer of Babolat racquets.
Most people when they think of Babolat think of either Andy Roddick or Rafa Nadal.

But I remember the first person that ever got me interested in their sticks was Carlos Moya. Prior to him I had never seen anyone use a Babolat.

I personally think Babolat have a lot to thank him for. He was Nadal's idol when he was growing up and is one of the main reasons Nadal uses Babolat today.

Anyone else agree that he was/is the true Babolat pioneer? Or was there someone even before him?
Moya was the first to get to a Grand Slam Final, first to win a Grand Slam, and first to be ranked number one in the world with a Babolat racquet. Also Moya was the first guy I saw playing with a Babolat racquet. To me those are pioneering efforts. I can think of no one before Moya I saw playing with Babolat racquets.

Correjta in 2000 jumped on the Babolat bandwagon after having his best years playing with Wilson racquets.

I hope now you can understand my logic.

Rabbit
07-23-2008, 08:12 AM
I remember the Sampras throw up match..sampras threw up because Corretja frustrated him with his lack of pace with his Wilson extended frames (whatever they were).

Funny, I remember Sampras' illness being qualified as some sort of genetic problem. There was never a mention of Sampras falling vicitm to a lack of pace. A player who frustrated Sampras with speed and retrieval was Michael Chang who Sampras roundly defeated in the finals that year 6-1, 6-4, 7-6. For Corretja to go 5 sets with Sampras would indicate that he then had more on the ball than Chang as he certainly never had the footspeed of a Michael Chang.

...as i said, Moya didnt even use the Pure DRive and never has. He was more popular with the fans, but Corretja actually using the Pure Drive I believe made more impact with the fellow pros, and we all know that people want to buy whatever they think the pros use (think the so called fed frame)

Interesting that you completely disqualify Moya's use of a frame painted to resemble (if it wasn't) a Pure Drive as not having any impact on Pure Drive sales and then give Federer credit with selling a frame that you claim he doesn't use.

As to your other point, how can anyone be certain that any other pro uses? According to you, neither Moya or Federer use the racket they claim to, how can anyone then guarantee that Corretja used a stock PD? I certainly have seen no proof. I suspect he does, but surely the rest of the ATP didn't look to Alex Corretja for their gear?

I would just like to point out that 1998 was Corretja best year and that he was playing with Wilson then. Aside from his 1998 French Open Final loss Corretja went on to beat Sapmras and Moya to win the 1998 ATP Tour World Championships.
At the 1998 ATP Tour World Championships (now known as the Tennis Masters Cup). In the semi-finals, he saved three match points on the way to beating Sampras 4–6, 6–3, 7–6. In the final, Corretja faced Moya in a five-set marathon and came back from two sets down to win in 4 hours and 1 minute 3–6, 3–6, 7–5, 6–3, 7–5. Corretja won a career-high five singles titles in 1998 and finished the year ranked World No. 3. In February 1999, Corretja reached his career-high ranking of World No. 2.
Those are some fine results with Wilson.

Yeah, I guess to the casual observer it would appear that Corretja's game improved when he swtiched to the Pure Drive.

NoBadMojo
07-23-2008, 08:16 AM
Funny, I remember Sampras' illness being qualified as some sort of genetic problem. There was never a mention of Sampras falling vicitm to a lack of pace. A player who frustrated Sampras with speed and retrieval was Michael Chang who Sampras roundly defeated in the finals that year 6-1, 6-4, 7-6. For Corretja to go 5 sets with Sampras would indicate that he then had more on the ball than Chang as he certainly never had the footspeed of a Michael Chang.



Interesting that you completely disqualify Moya's use of a frame painted to resemble (if it wasn't) a Pure Drive as not having any impact on Pure Drive sales and then give Federer credit with selling a frame that you claim he doesn't use.

As to your other point, how can anyone be certain that any other pro uses? According to you, neither Moya or Federer use the racket they claim to, how can anyone then guarantee that Corretja used a stock PD? I certainly have seen no proof. I suspect he does, but surely the rest of the ATP didn't look to Alex Corretja for their gear?



Yeah, I guess to the casual observer it would appear that Corretja's game improved when he swtiched to the Pure Drive.

yes exactly.i was talking about something else.

Rabbit
07-23-2008, 08:18 AM
I think Moya was the pioneer of a Babolat racquets. The OP asked who was the pioneer of Babolat racquets.

As usual, great point and one I fully agree with.


Moya was the first to get to a Grand Slam Final, first to win a Grand Slam, and first to be ranked number one in the world with a Babolat racquet. Also Moya was the first guy I saw playing with a Babolat racquet. To me those are pioneering efforts. I can think of no one before Moya I saw playing with Babolat racquets.

Correjta in 2000 jumped on the Babolat bandwagon after having his best years playing with Wilson racquets.

I hope now you can understand my logic.

Yep, and I can remember some of my friends actually ordering Babolat Pure Drives from a place in England. I even e-mailed to get the scoop on them. I remember because they said outside of England I wouldn't have to pay the VAT.

We can also probably conclude by his association that Moya got more pros to change to Babolat than any other. The Spaniard ranked just below Moya at the time he was successful was.....Corretja. Moya also heavily influenced his fellow islander, Nadal who is the star of the stable for Babolat. I would submit that Carlos Moya probably got more pros on board with Babolat than anyone else.

Ross K
07-23-2008, 08:46 AM
From what I remember the Soft Drive was pretty similar with Pure Drive but the Soft Drive had more light-green color where the pure drive was more skyblue and the SOft Drive had a little bit different shape in the rackethead.

The soft drive had some fibreglass in the construction.

One pro that used the Soft Drive was spaniard Francisco Roig. (Roig was a decent doubles player and I see no reason they would give him a soft drive for marketing reasons..) I saw him in Båstad 1999. The reason I remember it so well is that my favouriteplayer Alberto Berasategui played there and I watched one of their practices when Alberto tried Roig´s racket. After a while Alberto got some wicked topspin with that racket but the first strokes was in the fence.

Berasategui actually used either the Pure Drive or Soft Drive during a short while in his career. I think it was at the end of it.

I remember so well the first time i saw a Pure Drive. It was spring 1996 at a fair in my hometown and i was invited by a sportshop. It was a fair only for the spoorting-goods industry and Babolat had their own stand. A guy with glasses and brown hair from Babolat France showed me the new Pure Drive and i was amazed. I bought one in january 97 and have used the Pure Drive or other Babolat rackets since then with some short exceptions.

Thanks Hank. Very informative. I wonder if you or others have actually played with a Soft Drive? I'd still be interested to hear how it compares to a PD... BTW, Anyone got a picture of one?

ericsson
07-23-2008, 09:24 AM
From what I remember the Soft Drive was pretty similar with Pure Drive but the Soft Drive had more light-green color where the pure drive was more skyblue and the SOft Drive had a little bit different shape in the rackethead.

The soft drive had some fibreglass in the construction.

One pro that used the Soft Drive was spaniard Francisco Roig. (Roig was a decent doubles player and I see no reason they would give him a soft drive for marketing reasons..) I saw him in Båstad 1999. The reason I remember it so well is that my favouriteplayer Alberto Berasategui played there and I watched one of their practices when Alberto tried Roig´s racket. After a while Alberto got some wicked topspin with that racket but the first strokes was in the fence.

Berasategui actually used either the Pure Drive or Soft Drive during a short while in his career. I think it was at the end of it.

I remember so well the first time i saw a Pure Drive. It was spring 1996 at a fair in my hometown and i was invited by a sportshop. It was a fair only for the spoorting-goods industry and Babolat had their own stand. A guy with glasses and brown hair from Babolat France showed me the new Pure Drive and i was amazed. I bought one in january 97 and have used the Pure Drive or other Babolat rackets since then with some short exceptions.

That's right, the first Pure drives i saw was in 1996-97, before they were still quite unknown in the racket business and had to earn their place. I also agree that Moya is the true pioneer of the pure drive or the Babolat racket in general.
In 1996 at Paris Bercy Moya used the Soft Drive PJ.

NoBadMojo
07-23-2008, 01:46 PM
I think Moya was the pioneer of a Babolat racquets. The OP asked who was the pioneer of Babolat racquets.

Moya was the first to get to a Grand Slam Final, first to win a Grand Slam, and first to be ranked number one in the world with a Babolat racquet. Also Moya was the first guy I saw playing with a Babolat racquet. To me those are pioneering efforts. I can think of no one before Moya I saw playing with Babolat racquets.

Correjta in 2000 jumped on the Babolat bandwagon after having his best years playing with Wilson racquets.

I hope now you can understand my logic.

I wasnt disputing that Moya used a PureDrive paintjob earlier. I was speaking in terms of impact on the game and racquet sales, which is what i clearly posted

Shaolin
07-23-2008, 02:19 PM
Moya and...

LAPENTTI!

Lapentti was top 10 several years ago and was using a PD at the time. He definitely deserves to be mentioned but Moya has always been the main Babolat guy, until Roddick.

Also, guys like Chela, Ginepri and Gonzalez have been using the Pure Control for centuries now.

Pleepers
07-23-2008, 09:25 PM
While Moya may have been remembered more by casual observors, Corettja I believe made more impact and caused fellow pros to change to the PD because his game dramatically changed when he switched to the PD. I remember the Sampras throw up match..sampras threw up because Corretja frustrated him with his lack of pace with his Wilson extended frames (whatever they were). as i said, Moya didnt even use the Pure DRive and never has. He was more popular with the fans, but Corretja actually using the Pure Drive I believe made more impact with the fellow pros, and we all know that people want to buy whatever they think the pros use (think the so called fed frame)

Wow…just: Wow!

Moya and...

LAPENTTI!

Lapentti was top 10 several years ago and was using a PD at the time. He definitely deserves to be mentioned but Moya has always been the main Babolat guy, until Roddick.

I completely agree!

Exactly!

I also know Lapentti had a strong influence in Latin America in the late 90's.

InPraiseofAthleticBeauty
07-28-2008, 10:00 AM
There was an article by the NY Times on this last year:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/sports/playmagazine/0819play-colbiz.html

jura
07-28-2008, 11:22 AM
That's right, the first Pure drives i saw was in 1996-97, before they were still quite unknown in the racket business and had to earn their place. I also agree that Moya is the true pioneer of the pure drive or the Babolat racket in general.
You hardly could have seen a Babolat racket before 1997 because they started making rackets in this year.

jura
07-28-2008, 11:30 AM
... Corettja I believe made more impact and caused fellow pros to change to the PD because his game dramatically changed when he switched to the PD. ...
Sorry, but I disagree: At first Corretja switched to the PD+ after he tried Roddicks racket. Roddick was already a "raising star" and after a test Corretja decided to switch. So he was caused by an other pro!
Also Corretjas game didn't really changed after this switch. He really made a great leap forwards after switching from his Donnay Pro One Mid to Wilson. I saw Corretja beating Becker in 1994 at Hamburg - I can't remember him playing only one topspin backhand. He only sliced every ball like Aguilera did some years before. With the Wilson racket with only 16 mains he started to use more and more topspin backhands.

Rickson
07-28-2008, 02:02 PM
Andy Roddick.

NoBadMojo
07-28-2008, 02:05 PM
Sorry, but I disagree: At first Corretja switched to the PD+ after he tried Roddicks racket. Roddick was already a "raising star" and after a test Corretja decided to switch. So he was caused by an other pro!
Also Corretjas game didn't really changed after this switch. He really made a great leap forwards after switching from his Donnay Pro One Mid to Wilson. I saw Corretja beating Becker in 1994 at Hamburg - I can't remember him playing only one topspin backhand. He only sliced every ball like Aguilera did some years before. With the Wilson racket with only 16 mains he started to use more and more topspin backhands.

you may of course disagree, but lots of people including some announcers who were former players recognized that Corretja grew a forehand and a serve after making the switch..and this was a guy approaching the twilight of his career...surely his fellow pros noticed..we're not talking about the same thing.

martin
07-28-2008, 06:15 PM
I would like to know who these players are. Fact is that his results only got worse.

Rabbit
07-28-2008, 07:01 PM
Yep, I think it has already been stated that Corretja's best results/rankings were when he was with Wilson. I saw him at IW in 2000 and his game wasn't any bigger with the Pure Drive.

NoBadMojo
07-28-2008, 07:27 PM
I would like to know who these players are. Fact is that his results only got worse.

It's very obvious I didnt say his results got better...i said his forehand and serve got bigger..

i guess you people dont agree that switching to a PD aka Rocket Launcher would cause someone to hit the ball w. more power

ericsson
07-28-2008, 11:20 PM
You hardly could have seen a Babolat racket before 1997 because they started making rackets in this year.

Well it's awhile ago so it could be a year later but i was one of the first in my country to test one i think, my local sportshop has some great connections with Babolat, i still have a first generation pure drive at home.

____
07-29-2008, 12:39 AM
As far as I can remember,the first player I saw using Babolat stick was not Moya.It's Sebastian Laureau,a Canadian double player.I wasn't sure that's a Pure Drive or a Pure control he used then.

ericsson
07-29-2008, 03:37 AM
As far as I can remember,the first player I saw using Babolat stick was not Moya.It's Sebastian Laureau,a Canadian double player.I wasn't sure that's a Pure Drive or a Pure control he used then.

He played the Pure Control, it was in my understanding Moya was before him, when Moya switched to the pure drive in 1996 Lareau was still swinging his older Head...

Rabbit
07-29-2008, 04:00 AM
It's very obvious I didnt say his results got better...i said his forehand and serve got bigger..

i guess you people dont agree that switching to a PD aka Rocket Launcher would cause someone to hit the ball w. more power

Then it makes even less sense. Why would pros change to a racket that worsened a competitor's results?

jura
07-29-2008, 04:22 AM
As far as I can remember,the first player I saw using Babolat stick was not Moya.It's Sebastian Laureau,a Canadian double player.I wasn't sure that's a Pure Drive or a Pure control he used then.
As said it was a Pure Control. And Moya was the first: As I already posted he used a Babolat black frame in official matches at the end of 1996 - some months before Babolat started to sell rackets.

Hankenstein
07-29-2008, 04:54 AM
As said it was a Pure Control. And Moya was the first: As I already posted he used a Babolat black frame in official matches at the end of 1996 - some months before Babolat started to sell rackets.

He actually used a pure drive with paint in end of october 1996 at Paris Bercy..

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1532577.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A660BC2A3A366ACD04 9930FDCFC4C15FBB

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1532576.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A68D6A8029EBF8E2AD 9930FDCFC4C15FBB

NoBadMojo
07-29-2008, 06:49 AM
Then it makes even less sense. Why would pros change to a racket that worsened a competitor's results?



Chang switched to the longer racquet only to see his game go in the toilet. Lubby changed racquets and his game dumped..etc

bye now..i'm out of this thread. not possible to converse w. people who dont think that changing to a rocket launcher like the PD wouldnt cause them to hit w. more power

Rickson
07-29-2008, 06:59 AM
I still say Andy Roddick.

Rabbit
07-29-2008, 07:05 AM
Chang switched to the longer racquet only to see his game go in the toilet. Lubby changed racquets and his game dumped..etc

bye now..i'm out of this thread. not possible to converse w. people who dont think that changing to a rocket launcher like the PD wouldnt cause them to hit w. more power

Nobody's disagreeing that changing to a 'rocket launcher' won't increase a player's power.

However, you asserted that Corretja's change to the Pure Drive influenced other pros. Corretja's change also coincided with a drop in his results. This is an illogical conclusion. Unless of course the other pros wanted their games and rankings to drop.

More than serveral posters on this thread have asserted, and correctly so, that Carlos Moya was the foremost pioneer of Babolat. If he wasn't the first signee, he certainly was the biggest.

As to any pro's influence, Corretja or Moya, I think this is totally irrevelelant. Pros are more influenced by $'s than anything else. There are a few exceptions, but racket companies can tailor a racket to a pro and can copy a frame. IMO, the biggest boon to Babolat was Moya's influence with Rafael Nadal. Their like sponsorshps from shoes to clothes to rackets is too coincidental.

Robbo
07-29-2008, 07:15 AM
Ya gotta factor in Kim Clijsters in on the womens' side.....

Yes, indeed you do. Did she actually use anything else during her pro-career? :/.

Moya and...

LAPENTTI!

Lapentti was top 10 several years ago and was using a PD at the time. He definitely deserves to be mentioned but Moya has always been the main Babolat guy, until Roddick.


Lapentti definately deserves a mention. I remember watching the Lapentti Nalbandian Q/Final match at Wimbledon back in 2002, that match was phenomenal. Something like 6/4 in all 5 sets. But anyway, a little off topic for me, sorry.

Dedans Penthouse
07-29-2008, 07:45 AM
He played the Pure Control, it was in my understanding Moya was before him, when Moya switched to the pure drive in 1996 Lareau was still swinging his older Head...Indeed Sebastian Lareau was one of the early Pure Control players along with Kenneth Carlsson and Richie Reneberg. The original Pure Control was an 18x20, 19 mm-flat beamed framed that was supposedly lifted off the Donnay Pro One Mid mold and was to compete with the Head Pro Tour.

Richard Parnell
07-29-2008, 08:11 AM
Hi dedans, if you go back to '94 you will find that the first pure control was 16 mains. It was then changed to 18.Both were the same as the Donnay Pro one but the 16 mains moved the ball a lot more easily than the 18 mains version. I played with both , 16 mains was much easier to use.
Babolat brought out racquets in France in 94 and then in Spain in 95. The reason Moya switched to Babolat (the main reason) was that Babolat was quicker than Yonex to prepare him a frame with his specs. I strung for him in´95 and he was still using Prince and playing quallies (Valencia ´95). The frames sold well in Spain straight away but it was the final in Australia that really made people sit up and look at Babolat in another light. Here in Europe it was Moya that put Babolat on the frame map. For you Yanks it was Roddick, I suppose. It was actually the Soft Drive that sold most at the beginning. It was cheap, gave loads of spin and was easy to use. Loads of juniors started using it but had problems when they loaded it up with lead as it was never concieved as a players frame (the frame could snap because of the higher torsion it sustained with the higher weight)
All the best,
Richard

ericsson
07-29-2008, 08:11 AM
Indeed Sebastian Lareau was one of the early Pure Control players along with Kenneth Carlsson and Richie Reneberg. The original Pure Control was an 18x20, 19 mm-flat beamed framed that was supposedly lifted off the Donnay Pro One Mid mold and was to compete with the Head Pro Tour.

That's correct, you can see clearly the typical oval headshape of the Donnay pro one mold in the first generation PC's. The later ones used another mold.

ericsson
07-29-2008, 08:26 AM
Yes, indeed you do. Did she actually use anything else during her pro-career? :/.


She joined the tour in 1999 and used a Pure drive since then, infact she started to play the Pure drive when she was 15 years old in 1998, before she used the Wilson Pro staff classic 6.1

jura
07-29-2008, 10:47 AM
Hi dedans, if you go back to '94 you will find that the first pure control was 16 mains. It was then changed to 18.Both were the same as the Donnay Pro one but the 16 mains moved the ball a lot more easily than the 18 mains version. I played with both , 16 mains was much easier to use.
Babolat brought out racquets in France in 94 and then in Spain in 95. The reason Moya switched to Babolat (the main reason) was that Babolat was quicker than Yonex to prepare him a frame with his specs. I strung for him in´95 and he was still using Prince and playing quallies (Valencia ´95). The frames sold well in Spain straight away but it was the final in Australia that really made people sit up and look at Babolat in another light. Here in Europe it was Moya that put Babolat on the frame map. For you Yanks it was Roddick, I suppose. It was actually the Soft Drive that sold most at the beginning. It was cheap, gave loads of spin and was easy to use. Loads of juniors started using it but had problems when they loaded it up with lead as it was never concieved as a players frame (the frame could snap because of the higher torsion it sustained with the higher weight)
All the best,
Richard
Wow, thanks Richard - I never knew that Babolat made rackets before 1997. But did they made a "Drive" before? My info from a former Babolat product manager was that they had several black frames for him which he tried first in Stuttgart (the week before Pars-Bercy) and decided to switch soon. The next week in Paris he won against Becker in the first round. And then they decided to create the Pure Drive from this mold.
BTW: The first time I saw a racket from the later Pure Drive mold (it was a no-name brand) it had a bumper with "ESTUSA" written on. I also heard some rumors that Moya used Estusa in his youth years. Do you know something about this?
BTW 2: I love the red part of yur post! :)

Dedans Penthouse
07-29-2008, 10:52 AM
Richard (and ericsson), thanks for the "heads-up" about the early (original) Pure Controls.

ruerooo
07-29-2008, 10:59 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/sports/playmagazine/0819play-colbiz.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin

Endorsement chronology on p. 2

2nd_Serve
07-29-2008, 11:30 AM
I thought it was Andy Roddick? He used it since the beginning, and after e veryone saw his huge serve they switched. Of course, after reading all this I'm probably wrong.

Rickson
07-29-2008, 11:50 AM
Rafael Nadal.

ericsson
07-29-2008, 11:52 AM
Richard (and ericsson), thanks for the "heads-up" about the early (original) Pure Controls.

No problem man, here a pic from Lareau with the first generation pure control (from the Donnay PO mold):

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/548/lareauvq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Pro_Tour_630
07-29-2008, 04:46 PM
Indeed Sebastian Lareau was one of the early Pure Control players along with Kenneth Carlsson and Richie Reneberg. The original Pure Control was an 18x20, 19 mm-flat beamed framed that was supposedly lifted off the Donnay Pro One Mid mold and was to compete with the Head Pro Tour.
here it is , Pro Tour 630 all the way baby, the legend never dies!!!!!!!!!

The gfx on the racket are glossy, not matte. I've taken some pictures of the racket alone and in comparison with the PT630 - the head size looks to be very close to the PT630, if not identical. Beam looks narrower, 19mm?

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j246/OnyxZ28/IMG_0233.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j246/OnyxZ28/IMG_0236.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j246/OnyxZ28/IMG_0235-1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j246/OnyxZ28/IMG_0234-1.jpg

Rickson
07-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Kim Clijsters for the women.

slice bh compliment
07-29-2008, 05:38 PM
^The original Pure Control! I cannot believe that was not a hit. In a way, it's being re-released in the form of a 19mm, 95 headed stick called the Pure Storm Ltd.
If I can't have a bagful of the original Pure Controls, this is the next best thing.

Wonder how the old ones played? Probably great, just like the old Donnay, but I like the Woofer system on these new ones.

Anyway, I'm sure Controls &/ Ltds are pretty inconsequential compared to the legendary sales figures of the Pure Drive and now the Aero Pro Drive avec Cortex.

Back on topic, I agree Moya is probably a good choice for Babolat Pioneer. But, it's funny, in a couple of decades, if Babolat continues to be successful, I think Rafa will be remembered as an early pioneer of Babolat.

johnkidd
07-29-2008, 07:15 PM
Wasn't Correjtia using as Pro Staff 6.1 Stretch in the mid 90's?

ericsson
07-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Wasn't Correjtia using as Pro Staff 6.1 Stretch in the mid 90's?

Yes he was.

Rabbit
07-30-2008, 07:04 AM
^The original Pure Control!

Hmmm.... I have two of them, brand new....one appears to have never been strung. :)

slice bh compliment
07-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Hmmm.... I have two of them, brand new....one appears to have never been strung. :)

Cool, where did you get 'em, in Europe? What grip size? If it's a 4, 5 or 6, and you are willing to part with them, I'd happily trade you a pair of ag 100s, or a pr of Pure Storm Ltd's, or a pair of Fischer Pro Tours, or a pair of ag 200s. Or cash.

EDIT:
Well, I don't want to turn this thread into a classified ad, so here's something remotely germane:
Maybe Rabbit, the man with original Pure Controls is the Babolat Pioneer we've been looking for.

whosyumom
07-30-2008, 09:54 AM
I got one because of moya a few years back. :)

Rabbit
07-30-2008, 10:51 AM
Cool, where did you get 'em, in Europe? What grip size? If it's a 4, 5 or 6, and you are willing to part with them, I'd happily trade you a pair of ag 100s, or a pr of Pure Storm Ltd's, or a pair of Fischer Pro Tours, or a pair of ag 200s. Or cash.

EDIT:
Well, I don't want to turn this thread into a classified ad, so here's something remotely germane:
Maybe Rabbit, the man with original Pure Controls is the Babolat Pioneer we've been looking for.

I can't tell you where I got them.....well I could, you can guess the rest...

But, I would be interested in a swap.....for a pair of AG100s if the grip size is right...

The Bab's are 1/2's

And I'm not the pioneer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

:)

crosscourt
07-30-2008, 10:48 PM
I remember that in the UK (at least) Pat Cash promoted Babolat rackets -- and the Pure Drive in particular -- for a while before they were well known.

I also remember reading that Babolat's strategy was in part to sponsor a lot of kids on the up in academies and just starting out on the basis that some of them would make it and some of them wouldn't. Perhaps we should have an "Unknown Pioneer" alongside all those who made it and played it.

cc

slice bh compliment
07-31-2008, 12:09 PM
I can't tell you where I got them.....well I could, you can guess the rest...

But, I would be interested in a swap.....for a pair of AG100s if the grip size is right...

The Bab's are 1/2's

And I'm not the pioneer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

:)

My hardly-used ag 100s are 1/2s, too. I'll email you to set up the trade. I can ship directly to your Holiday Inn Express or to your house.

Talk to you later,
--slice

Rabbit
07-31-2008, 03:50 PM
My hardly-used ag 100s are 1/2s, too. I'll email you to set up the trade. I can ship directly to your Holiday Inn Express or to your house.

Talk to you later,
--slice

I e-mailed you. Let's proceed...

GeoffB
08-01-2008, 05:43 AM
The nytimes has a (presumably) well researched article on Babolat in "play" magazine. The site is hanging so I'm having trouble getting a link - but if you google "nytimes play babolat" it'll be the first link.

oscar_2424
08-01-2008, 06:15 AM
NIcolas Lapentti, he was the first one

LPShanet
08-01-2008, 03:35 PM
As Jura points out, both the Soft Drive and Pure Drive came from the same mold. The main difference was supposedly flex, but some of it was also cosmetics and marketing. At first, the Soft Drive was actually the more popular racquet in some countries, and Babolat put a lot of money behind the idea that the "soft" feel would appeal to consumers. There's no way of knowing which of the versions Moya actually used early on, but he was seen using both cosmetics in and around 1998. Many pro stringing logs had him using the Soft Drive at that time. Once the Pure Drive took off and Babolat simplified the line, they re-marketed the Soft Drive as a recreational frame and the Pure Drive as a tweener that serious players could use. After that point, all of their sponsored pros used either the Pure Drive or the Pure Control for many years.

dirtballer
08-03-2008, 02:53 AM
The other night ESPN mentioned Lapentti as being a Babolat pioneer. I don't know if they meant he was the first though.

35ft6
08-04-2008, 09:32 PM
Moya and Nicholas Escude (I think) were the first I saw using Babolats. The design immediately made it stand out.

slice bh compliment
08-12-2008, 11:21 AM
For me, Rabbit is the Babolat Pioneer. He just sent me a pair of the original Pure Controls (I traded him some Dunlop ag100s). Good trade. Great man. Great sticks all around.

This original Babolat PC has no woofers, has an 18x20 pattern, is pretty thin (19mm beam?) and it says 330g to start off. I have not measured it yet, or done the grips and strings, but I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers, guys. And thanks Rabbit!

ericsson
08-12-2008, 11:58 AM
For me, Rabbit is the Babolat Pioneer. He just sent me a pair of the original Pure Controls (I traded him some Dunlop ag100s). Good trade. Great man. Great sticks all around.

This original Babolat PC has no woofers, has an 18x20 pattern, is pretty thin (19mm beam?) and it says 330g to start off. I have not measured it yet, or done the grips and strings, but I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers, guys. And thanks Rabbit!

Slice, i hope you got a great deal cos these are quite rare in pristine condition and are worth a lot IMO, good luck with your PC's, great sticks!

slice bh compliment
08-12-2008, 03:52 PM
ericsson,
Ja, believe me, I know I'm very lucky. I threw some extras in the box for him, feeling I was getting the far better deal.

Then Rabbit's box had even more lagniappe. That is one generous and knowledgeable Rabbit.

EDIT:
Uh oh, now I've put pressure on him to outdo himself each time he trades w/ someone! I guess things just worked out and he had a few things lying around that fit me better than they fit him. That was the case with my size 4 ag100s.

Well, back to the Babolat Pioneer discussion.

Rabbit
08-12-2008, 04:23 PM
No problem at all. BTW, I don't think one of the PC's had been strung....ever.

I hit with the other one, for about two hits, and found it not to my liking.

Let me add my kudos to slice, he is a gentleman and man of his word. He did throw quite a few extras in his box, including a Fairway.....a good guy and a bad guy Dunlop cap, and a 3 racket Dunlop bag. After all that, I felt it incumbent on me to put something extra in the box, something special.

johnathan smith
08-12-2008, 04:37 PM
All good responses and a very intresteing thread...
First for me it was Carlos Moya and then Lappenti...
I remeber Escude playing Agassi in a US Open night match during the '99 tourney with Prestige Classic Xl's.... and then switching to the Bab in 2000.
If I am a betting man, I think Moya was the first babolat guy.
Roddick really brought them into the for-front and now Nadal has taken over..

lacoster
08-13-2008, 12:00 PM
I think it was Moya for sure. It also helped that everyone else had the Babolat stencil on their strings at that time, which helped bring the brand into everyone's consciousness. Everyone in the late 1990's from Becker, Kafelnikov, Rios, Krajicek, Sampras, Davenport, Sanchez-Vicario, and Hingis all had the double lines underneath their racquet stencils and winning majors with it (except for Rios lol). This is a type of viral marketing. Remember when Djokovic put the TF string stencil on his nBlade? People started asking about Tecnifibre once they saw the TF triangle on Novak's frame....

bet
08-16-2008, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE=Rabbit;2544868]Definetly Moya. He was the first guy I saw play with a Babolat and pretty much defined Pure Drive.

I disagree that Corretja only developed 'weapons' after switching to the Pure Drive. Corretja was playing with a Wilson stick when he played his epic match against [\QUOTE]

Quite correct. Corretja (thanks in part to an extra-long frame) already had a big first serve and a powerful forehand. His ground game was solid off both sides. He did not have Sampras power or power to the point of being unusual in any shot, but his forehand and serve were already weapons and the players certainly knew it. They didn't get much ,if at all, bigger after his swtich.

Further "Sampras threw up out of frustration from a lack of pace"?!!!! WTH!? That's the saddest thing I ever read. Is Sampras one of the kids from South Park? And indeed, Corretja was not a slice and dice, softball player, (though he could slice the backhand well )and he didn't play that way in that match. He played very solid drives, running Sampras around. That's why Sampras, due in part to Thalassemia, became exhausted.

Rabbit
08-16-2008, 05:53 PM
[quote=Rabbit;2544868]Definetly Moya. He was the first guy I saw play with a Babolat and pretty much defined Pure Drive.

I disagree that Corretja only developed 'weapons' after switching to the Pure Drive. Corretja was playing with a Wilson stick when he played his epic match against [\QUOTE]

Quite correct. Corretja (thanks in part to an extra-long frame) already had a big first serve and a powerful forehand. His ground game was solid off both sides. He did not have Sampras power or power to the point of being unusual in any shot, but his forehand and serve were already weapons and the players certainly knew it. They didn't get much ,if at all, bigger after his swtich.

Further "Sampras threw up out of frustration from a lack of pace"?!!!! WTH!? That's the saddest thing I ever read. Is Sampras one of the kids from South Park? And indeed, Corretja was not a slice and dice, softball player, (though he could slice the backhand well )and he didn't play that way in that match. He played very solid drives, running Sampras around. That's why Sampras, due in part to Thalassemia, became exhausted.

You sir, are apparently in the same boat as I; another casual fan... ;)

mctennis
08-19-2008, 08:20 PM
I think the guy who singlehandedly was responsible for the pros switching to the Pure Drive was Alex Corretja.

Exactly right NBMJ. I agree with you here. He always had such a smooth game especially his backhand. When he switched racquets I bought one just for that reason. His game seemed to improve. I miss him on the tour. He always seemed like a nice guy when I'd see him play in Cincinnati.

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 05:47 AM
I think the guy who singlehandedly was responsible for the pros switching to the Pure Drive was Alex Corretja.

Exactly right NBMJ. I agree with you here. He always had such a smooth game especially his backhand. When he switched racquets I bought one just for that reason. His game seemed to improve. I miss him on the tour. He always seemed like a nice guy when I'd see him play in Cincinnati.

I used to like Corretja too until he made that big stink at Wimbledon because the wimbledon comittee juggled the seedings and seeded the Spaniards lower because they couldnt play on the grass back then. he threatened to have the Spaniards boycott Wimbledon

As to his game changing after the racquet switch, what we are saying is true..it was pretty obvious to detect. the pros sure werent switching to the PureDrive because of Moya..Moya didnt/doesnt even use a PureDrive

Teamtomo
08-20-2008, 06:22 AM
To start with Moya was babolats flagship racket user therefore the true pioneer

WChiang
08-20-2008, 06:35 AM
Moya was the Babolat "pioneer" and the overwhelming evidence detailed in this thread (by the "casual fans", lol) confirms that.

LPShanet
08-20-2008, 08:25 AM
the pros sure werent switching to the PureDrive because of Moya..Moya didnt/doesnt even use a PureDrive

What are you saying he uses/used?

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 08:42 AM
What are you saying he uses/used?

a Soft Drive which is an entirely different composition than a PureDrive and which doesnt contain Woofer grommets. that's the way i understand it.

max200G
08-20-2008, 08:45 AM
The original Pure Drive did not have woofer grommets either.

slice bh compliment
08-20-2008, 10:31 AM
Nor did the original, original Pure Control (the one originally engineered by Donnay).

Even though most racquet technologies are bunk, the woofer system (the parallel drill holes and the bumpy grommets), I think really make a stiff, powerful stick feel great.

I'm sure babolat has experienced people in charge of communicating that, but I never really bought into the whole 'Woofer System' until I actually hit with a Pure Control/Storm Tour/Storm Ltd.

shealy
12-19-2008, 10:13 AM
moya does in fact use the pd but not the new pj he uses the old one and it is not a paintjob it is off the shelf but with some weight modifications...i hit with his racket whilst at his academy in mallorca during wimby..he pulled out with a shoulder injury although he was training full belt all week