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View Full Version : Wow, the POG is amazing!


Djokovicfan4life
07-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Just hit with this frame for the first time and it's just great. Incredible spin potential with the 14X18 string pattern. I love hitting my backhand with this stick. It just feels like the ultimate control racquet to me.

I still love my fischers, of course, but this frame sure gives it a run for its money! At a mere 120 bucks I may just have to buy one of these.

P.S. Why does it say "Graphite Mid Plus" on the throat of the racquet. I looked at the pictures on TW and it doesn't say this anywhere. Shouldn't it be a mid size anyway? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

jasonbourne
07-23-2008, 08:52 PM
Djokovicfan, I agree with you regarding the POG. I enjoy playing with the racket.

My version from TW does not read "Mid Plus." In fact, at the top of the frame head it reads, "Midsize."

BreakPoint
07-23-2008, 09:33 PM
93 sq. in. used to be considered MidPlus by Prince when the POG came out. Now they consider it a Mid, thus, the change in graphics. They can't call the O3 Tour 95 a "Mid" but the POG 93 a "MidPlus" now, can they? ;)

Djokovicfan4life
07-23-2008, 09:51 PM
93 sq. in. used to be considered MidPlus by Prince when the POG came out. Now they consider it a Mid, thus, the change in graphics. They can't call the O3 Tour 95 a "Mid" but the POG 93 a "MidPlus" now, can they? ;)

Thanks for clearing things up, Breakpoint. So I guess I just got an older demo?

BTW, how do you like the POG?

BreakPoint
07-23-2008, 09:56 PM
Thanks for clearing things up, Breakpoint. So I guess I just got an older demo?

BTW, how do you like the POG?
One of the best racquets made in the past 30 years. I guess that's why after 30 years in production, they're still making them. :)

jasonbourne
07-23-2008, 11:20 PM
BP, why do you think Prince continues to produce the POG for three decades? Do you think it is simply due to demand or another (perhaps more practical) reason?

Is there another frame out there been produced this long or longer?

BreakPoint
07-23-2008, 11:34 PM
BP, why do you think Prince continues to produce the POG for three decades? Do you think it is simply due to demand or another (perhaps more practical) reason?

Is there another frame out there been produced this long or longer?
I think they keep making the POG because it's a great racquet and people keep buying them. Prince also doesn't need to market it at all as it sells itself.

The PS 6.0 85 was made for 25 years. I think the Dunlop Maxply Fort was made for more than 40 years.

no1
07-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Just hit with this frame for the first time and it's just great. Incredible spin potential with the 14X18 string pattern....

...At a mere 120 bucks I may just have to buy one of these....


HAHAHA 2 reasons why I love 'em, quicker stringing time, and inexpensive...

Ross K
07-23-2008, 11:59 PM
For the benefit of someone who has never played with a POG, what frame does it compare to in one or two respects? I mean, even if it's only a little bit alike...

Deuce
07-24-2008, 12:14 AM
Just hit with this frame for the first time and it's just great. Incredible spin potential with the 14X18 string pattern. I love hitting my backhand with this stick. It just feels like the ultimate control racquet to me.

I still love my fischers, of course, but this frame sure gives it a run for its money! At a mere 120 bucks I may just have to buy one of these.

Don't let the relatively cheaper price fool you - what you save in purchasing the racquet you'll more than make up for in strings and string jobs.
This thing eats strings like there's no tomorrow.

HAHAHA 2 reasons why I love 'em, quicker stringing time, and inexpensive...
See above.

For the benefit of someone who has never played with a POG, what frame does it compare to in one or two respects? I mean, even if it's only a little bit alike...
It's a very stiff frame.
Personally, it's much too stiff for my liking.
If you like stiff frames, and your arm can handle it, give it a try.
If you don't like stiff frames, you'll likely not like it.

bertrevert
07-24-2008, 12:33 AM
Tis rated as stiffness being 66 - which I didn't seemt o think was particularly stiff, but know I wonder if that is..

I had a month or so with
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-K6116.html

And just felt with the weight combined taht it tore my arm off and hurt my elbow - found it way too stiff.

So is the POG at 66 not considered relatively flexy????

(I am finding it difficult to account for how much variance there is in those stiffeness figures. Does 3 points mean a lot or a little difference?)cheers

Deuce
07-24-2008, 12:44 AM
Tis rated as stiffness being 66 - which I didn't seemt o think was particularly stiff, but know I wonder if that is..

I had a month or so with
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-K6116.html

And just felt with the weight combined taht it tore my arm off and hurt my elbow - found it way too stiff.

So is the POG at 66 not considered relatively flexy????

(I am finding it difficult to account for how much variance there is in those stiffeness figures. Does 3 points mean a lot or a little difference?)cheers
Stiffness numbers can be misleading. At best, they may be able to be used to compare different frames in a rather general way.
But a racquet with a relatively high stiffness rating can feel very comfortable to hit with while a frame with lower stiffness numbers can feel significantly more harsh than the first frame with higher stiffness numbers.
It depends on materials, location of materials within the frame, how stiff or flexible the head is, weight, blalance, etc.

I found the POG to be very harsh and uncomfortable compared to racquets like the Pro Staff 6.0 85 and the Prestige Classic Mid.

no1
07-24-2008, 01:00 AM
Eh? I bet if you threw some decent strings in there, it wouldn't be as stiff...

Yea the strings break more often, but on the flip side, its one of the easiest rackets to string (only one skip hole, and tie off holes are really big)...

You also can't really go wrong with the fact that they still make them, and most of them feel relatively similar (4 stripe or newer)

Deuce
07-24-2008, 01:21 AM
Eh? I bet if you threw some decent strings in there, it wouldn't be as stiff...
It would have to be strung at 34 pounds for me to begin to feel only slightly more comfortable with the POG.

no1
07-24-2008, 01:30 AM
It would have to be strung at 34 pounds for me to begin to feel only slightly more comfortable with the POG.


HAHAHAHAHAH okay... I saw tomato, you say potato...


The POG does have a bit of a reputation for being "stiff", but again, I really feel like a lot of that is due to poor string choice (not tension sir)...

baek57
07-24-2008, 01:35 AM
i liked it when i demoed it. but it did seem a bit stiff, maybe because of the crossbar.

Djokovicfan4life
07-24-2008, 06:20 AM
I think I'm gonna buy one of these soon. I'm gonna string it up with my favorite string, Babolat VS. That should take care of some of the stiffness.

Pet
07-24-2008, 06:49 AM
Stiffness numbers can be misleading. At best, they may be able to be used to compare different frames in a rather general way.
But a racquet with a relatively high stiffness rating can feel very comfortable to hit with while a frame with lower stiffness numbers can feel significantly more harsh than the first frame with higher stiffness numbers.
It depends on materials, location of materials within the frame, how stiff or flexible the head is, weight, blalance, etc.

I found the POG to be very harsh and uncomfortable compared to racquets like the Pro Staff 6.0 85 and the Prestige Classic Mid.


But the new china Prostaff is very stiff to me.

jasonbourne
07-24-2008, 08:43 AM
POG mid feels stiff to some because the racket provides a pure, raw feedback to your hand when the ball is struck unlike most rackets. It does not feel like there is any filter of feel when you play tennis with it. Hence, you will "feel" off-center hits more than other rackets.

When you strike the ball in the POG's sweet spot for a winner it feels like you cracked a home run with a wooden bat. The ball is not coming back. :)

bertrevert
07-24-2008, 04:16 PM
When you strike the ball in the POG's sweet spot for a winner it feels like you cracked a home run with a wooden bat. The ball is not coming back. :)

See, this is one of the reasons MIDs will never die out.

You could almost conclude that most of the racquet manufacture over the last twenty years had been an attempt to find a happy medium between sweetspot-joy and off-centre comfort.

So has anyone done... POLY in a POG?

mdjenders
07-24-2008, 08:48 PM
Well, I played the mid for 6 months and tried a variety of strings (unfortunately not gut). I used Pro Hurricane Tour 17, Blue Gear 17, Big Ace 17, Cyberflash 17, and OG Micro/Polylon 17. I tried to string once low (50 ish) and once higher (57-58) with each string to get an idea of how it played. With the poly strung tight, the topspin was unbelievable. I could sit back at the baseline and pound away with abandon, because the balls would drop like a rock inside the baseline every time. Alas, those setups played to stiff. Poly strung looser was a more realistic option for my weak arm, but things did feel a bit mushy. Of all the strings, the cheap Gosen hybrid played and felt great strung at 50 lbs.

I think the uncomfortable nature of this frame depends lots on the lack of cushion from the calfskin grip. I hit with another pog mid that had a cushioned synthetic grip, and the frame was much more comfy (however, that superb raw feeling of crushing a flat winner was missing)

Deuce
07-24-2008, 09:40 PM
POG mid feels stiff to some because the racket provides a pure, raw feedback to your hand when the ball is struck unlike most rackets. It does not feel like there is any filter of feel when you play tennis with it. Hence, you will "feel" off-center hits more than other rackets.

When you strike the ball in the POG's sweet spot for a winner it feels like you cracked a home run with a wooden bat. The ball is not coming back. :)
Sweetspot felt plenty stiff to me.
What you describe above is, to me, more applicable to the Pro Staff 6.0 85, which is rather unforgiving on off-centre hits, but beautiful within the sweetspot.

nickb
07-25-2008, 05:10 AM
I agree its very stiff and not comfortable at all. I didnt think the feel was anything near PS85 feel. Great racket but pretty poor at the net compared to wilson mids and the new frames need lead.

Nick

gonzalocatalino
07-25-2008, 06:47 AM
I agree its very stiff and not comfortable at all. I didnt think the feel was anything near PS85 feel. Great racket but pretty poor at the net compared to wilson mids and the new frames need lead.

Nick

Sorry for the offtopic...Nickb: how often do yuo change racquets?!?!?!
I remember your fishchers, some vantages, and then a comeback to the wilsons tours...and now nblades!?!!? you´re insane!!!!!!! :P

dak95_00
07-25-2008, 07:06 AM
I've been playing this racquet since well.......look at my signature. I use to string it in high school w/ Prince ProBlend at 63lbs because anything else would break in about 2-3 hours of play. I don't play as much now so I'll string w/ anything.

Lately, I have been playing more and the strings are breaking so I just strung it w/ Big Banger Rough all the way through at 68 lbs because the store didn't have ProBlend. The racquet feels great but I prefer ProBlend and I should've strung it at 70lbs.

Next time, I'll string it at 70 and either do ProBlend or I'll hybrid the Big Banger w/ any sort of synthetic as the crosses.

I think it plays just like my friends ProStaff Classics 6.1 which he has strung at 70lbs w/ ProBlend. I will say that the Classic seems to have a little more weight in the head that gives it a more powerful/solid feel. However, I don't need/want more power. It also take awhile to learn to volley w/ these racquets as you have to step/punch through the ball as the racquet isn't going to produce its own power on the volleys like many other racquets will.

If you can find a better control racquet, let me know and I'll switch after 24 years. The classic almost got me.

GeoffB
07-25-2008, 02:44 PM
I play with the POGs too. I'm pretty happy with them, though I did borrow someone's Head Prestige the other day and really enjoyed hitting with it.

I think one of the reasons people string this racquet so tight is the open pattern. I string mine at 67lbs, and I've tried to go down a few times, but it doesn't work well for me. I think that people who hit with the POGs use tight strings and heavy spin to control the ball. This racquet is on the heavy side, so you can still generate decent pace even with the tight strings and heavy spin.

The Head Prestige I borrowed was strung at 58lbs, and I thought it would bother me, but it was actually fine. And as far as I know, the HP is a somewhat open pattern as well. I suspect that lower stringing tensions bother me much more with the POG than they would with other racquets.

Eventually, I'll give these up and move to a more forgiving racquet. But until then, this is a really good stick.

GeoffB
07-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Oh BTW, the posts about the string munching on the POG are absolutely true. I used to break a string every 4 or 5 hours of play. A more durable string (problend or something similar) lasts much longer - the guy in the pro shop said 2x, but I think it lasted 4x, it was a remarkable difference.

The extra strain a POG with problend puts on the arm is remarkable too - hence, the interest in changing racquets.

Djokovicfan4life
07-25-2008, 02:53 PM
Oh BTW, the posts about the string munching on the POG are absolutely true. I used to break a string every 4 or 5 hours of play. A more durable string (problend or something similar) lasts much longer - the guy in the pro shop said 2x, but I think it lasted 4x, it was a remarkable difference.

The extra strain a POG with problend puts on the arm is remarkable too - hence, the interest in changing racquets.

Well, luckily for me I'm not a string breaker.

vickytor
07-25-2008, 03:09 PM
I've always played with 16x18 pattern Wilsons, and haven't bought a new racquet in ages. I'm waiting for my next demo set: POG Mid, Diablo Mid, and Aerogel 200. I figured it'd be nice to try out some different patterns (14x18, 16x20, 18x20, respectively) to see if I've been missing out on anything.

I've been reading a lot of good things about the POG on the boards, and look forward to trying it out. Since it seems to be more of an "old school" racquet made from 100% Graphite, no fancy Karophite Black, Aerogel, etc., would you guys say that its advantage lies mostly in its more open string pattern?

jasonbourne
07-25-2008, 03:31 PM
vickytor, the advantage of the POG mid is its string pattern, HL balance and feel. This allows excellent ball control for the player.

GeoffB
07-25-2008, 03:58 PM
vickytor -

I definitely think it's part of the appeal. I'm not sure I'd call it an advantage so much as an approach with it's own set of tradeoffs.

It's a heavy, thin, stiff frame with a very open stringing pattern. The open stringing pattern, allows you to put a tremendous amount of spin on the ball. However, a denser stringing pattern tends to allow for more control. As a result, I think that a lot of POG fans tend to string the racquet tight for extra spin and control, and rely on topspin it brings to keep the ball in the lines. In this sense, the open stringing pattern doesn't really provide less control than a denser pattern - however, you do have to achieve your control a different way.

The racquet is also quite heavy, which I think is important for this kind of racquet. You do need to generate your own pace when you string it that tight and discharge a considerable amount of head speed into topspin, so the extra weight helps. My POGs are a little old - I've heard that the newer ones (not a newer model, just the new racquets off the production line) are a bit lighter.

It can be very, very effective, but it does make it difficult to switch to a different racquet. Once you've built a game around the POG, there are very few options that will play the same way. I suspect this is why there's such a heavy niche following of this racquet.

vickytor
07-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. I personally prefer a heavier racquet; I demoed an AG100 previously, and although I loved the control and feel, I felt it was way too light. And I don't usually customize my racquets, so I'm looking for something that fits me in stock form. Look forward to trying out the POG!

no1
07-25-2008, 05:47 PM
...As a result, I think that a lot of POG fans tend to string the racquet tight for extra spin and control...


It can be very, very effective, but it does make it difficult to switch to a different racquet. Once you've built a game around the POG, there are very few options that will play the same way. I suspect this is why there's such a heavy niche following of this racquet.

Hmm... I do notice the first trend...

I'm not sure that its difficult to switch to other rackets... I think if they still made the classic prestiges at an affordable price, I could see myself switching to that...

GeoffB
07-25-2008, 06:56 PM
I may have phrased wrong. I agree that it isn't necessarily "difficult" to switch from a POG to another racquet, especially a thin player's frame. I recently tried out a Head Prestige, and I really liked it. However, I may not actually have the full strokes to justify the POGs I'm using - I'm a middle tier 4.0, which is probably the lowest level that really should be using the POG mid+. What I meant is that it's difficult to replicate the kind of strokes and playing style that you may have built around playing with POGs with another frame - which is why some people can't imagine playing with a difficult racquet.

iLose
07-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Sweetspot felt plenty stiff to me.
What you describe above is, to me, more applicable to the Pro Staff 6.0 85, which is rather unforgiving on off-centre hits, but beautiful within the sweetspot.

I tend to agree with Deuce here, when I first started hitting with my friends POG I just thought I was never hitting the sweet spot. Turns out that I pretty much was, it just has a "raw" feedback to it like someone else said. I still have one in the bag, its alot different then the stock normal Pure Drives I hit with everyday but I always have alot of fun when I pull it out for a day.

EC230
07-25-2008, 10:14 PM
Hey vickytor,

I might be the outlier here of the group of people that GeoffB mentioned in terms of building a game around the POG. I've used the POG since I've starting playing tennis at 6 and to me it's actually been a great tool for me in terms of developing the right strokes to generate topspin. I've gone through numerous frames throughout my playing years mainly due to the lack of power from the POG. But the strokes I've developed have actually been extremely adaptable to different racquets, like the i.Prestige mids (18x20) that I used for a bit with generating spin mainly because my strokes have been grooved by the POG to produce spin.

Also, I may also be different from some of the others here (except mdjenders) where I have never strung my POGs higher than 63. During the winter months I have actually gone as low as 56lbs with lead using synthetics. For polys, I've gone down to 52lbs like mdjenders. However, this is a personal preference as I feel that anything tighter than 63lbs robs the POG of it's power (induced by it's open 14x18 pattern) as well as destroys the feel of the feel of the racket. It may also be the reason why some people who string higher believes the POG is a harsh frame. By all means, it's a very "raw" feeling frame, but I have never found it to be harsh (except for a few polys I've tried...)

However, because I did grow up with this racquet, it has always been the one that I've reverted to which as a result it has been my main stick (and will stay that way for a while). And I will agree with most...this is a very niche racquet. A lot of people I hit with have never been able to use my POGs because they are always surprised by the way the ball leaves the string bed. So in that regard, it's been my observation that people who have never used a POG to have trouble adapting to it instead of the other way around (and these players are pretty high level players...a couple of other 5.0s and two ranked Open level players in Norcal).

So all in all, it's a great stick but I just believe if you have never used it, it may take some getting use to. Just have fun with it!!!

EC230 (solid 5.0, baseliner, POGs with lead)

jasonbourne
07-25-2008, 11:04 PM
I currently have Klip Armour Pro 16g mains with Pro Supex Big Ace 16g crosses on my POG mid strung at 60/64#. It is comfortable. The power is higher than string setup I used in the past. Spin is there...obviously. However, with this setup the "raw" feel is gone compared to a full PSGD string job.

It feels as if I'm playing with a MG Prestige Mid. The ball pocketing is excellent and comfort is high.

GeoffB
07-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Even 63lbs is pretty tight these days, since it seems to be trending down. I thought I only liked tight racquets, but when I tried out the Head Prestige at 58, it really was alright. I bet I could go even lower with a more closed string pattern.

By the way, I read an excerpt of Vince Spadea's book where he says he strings his POGs at 75lbs! That's incredibly tight - especially considering that the pros seem to be trending away from very tightly strung racquets these days. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only guy on the tour still using these racquets is also the guy with the tightest stringing job. He's also the old man of the tour these days, which also tells you maybe this style is a relic...

drakulie
07-27-2008, 07:49 AM
POG mid feels stiff to some because the racket provides a pure, raw feedback to your hand when the ball is struck unlike most rackets. It does not feel like there is any filter of feel when you play tennis with it. Hence, you will "feel" off-center hits more than other rackets.

When you strike the ball in the POG's sweet spot for a winner it feels like you cracked a home run with a wooden bat. The ball is not coming back. :)

agree 100%.

Just to add, this frame is a monster from the baseline.

fujitsu77
07-27-2008, 09:14 AM
I dont really like the pog mid, I just never liked mid sized racquets.

I love the oversize and the LB.

My main racquet is the LB cut to 27 and customized to my specs

travlerajm
07-27-2008, 10:02 AM
I dont really like the pog mid, I just never liked mid sized racquets.

I love the oversize and the LB.

My main racquet is the LB cut to 27 and customized to my specs

My main racquet is a shortened, customized LB also. I played with the POG mid in high school. My net game and serve improved when I left it behind for a larger head size.

mdjenders
07-27-2008, 11:03 AM
some comments...

I always wanted to try playing with the mid strung super tight like some on this thread, but I am fairly certain my tennis elbow would have been severely debilitating (even in the low 50s I got a nasty case from this frame).

I found the POG mid to be a great "stroke trainer" for me. With more conventional frames, my forehand was more of an extreme windshield wiper stroke, very wristy and spinny, but not necessarily always heavy. With the POG and its extremely open string pattern, I changed to a flatter stroke driving through the ball more. Spin was still huge due to the POG, but the balls were much heavier and had more pace. Now with any frame I use, I feel my forehand is a much more effective shot.

Also, Spadea uses the OS model, so stringing at 75 is not all that crazy. The OS feels like a trampoline string bed if strung too loose, and the way Vinnay hits his backhand he needs a huge tension.

BkK_b0y14
07-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Full Poly + 60lbs+ tension on the POG = most likely TE or a hurt arm. I find that the POG has PLENTY of control strung under 60lbs. But maybe that's just me..