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SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 02:02 AM
I am thinking of buying this stick but I have read many comments from people who are claiming that PDR gives tennis elbow... So is it really so ? Is it due to the high stiffness of the frame ?

Thanks,

Flyingpanda
07-28-2008, 02:04 AM
Yes the stiffness has been known to cause elbow problems. This doesn't happen to everybody though. I suggest demoing it for a bit. If down the line, it causes you elbow problems, you can always trade/sell it for something else.

SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 02:16 AM
does the Aero pro also give tennis elbow because it is has a stiffness of 67 and PDR has a stiffness of 71 ?

bdog
07-28-2008, 05:39 AM
There are too many factors which cause TE/GE. If stiffness was the only cause of TE, there would be a definitive pattern of TE by tennis players who used a racket, say above, 70 flex. But there is no magic stiffness number which says you will get TE. Even high level players with low flex rackets get TE. Does that mean you avoid rackets above 64 flex?

It is good you are doing your homework and watching certain indicators which could cause TE. There is just no decisive evidence that points to the cause of TE. Take your time and be careful. Check with your local pro and look at all factors, not just flex.

I believe we all hate to admit it, but technique is more of a factor than flex.

monomakh
07-28-2008, 05:44 AM
From my experience, it's all technique. I long played with a PS Classic (stiffness - 74) and nary a problem. Took a long time off, came back.

... the PDR (stiffness 71), which I've played with for 3 weeks or so feels like butter. No problems, except from some dead strings in the demo racquet. With natural gut, it feels fantastic and I'm not worried about the stiffness at all.

OTOH, using an Aerogel 200 (stiffness 64) gave me the worst tennis elbow of my life. Probably from trying to overhit to make up for the relative lack of power in the frame.

Summary (at least for me): it's all about form. If you hit everything in the sweet spot, you'll be fiiiiine.

Bubba
07-28-2008, 06:13 AM
I agree ^^^
I'm a long time PS85/n90/K90 user and also have 3 PDR's that I switch out to. In fact, I'm on the PDR's now. Technique is definitely a factor. However, there are several things you can do to help avoid TE with the PDR:

- Avoid full Poly - especially at higher tensions
- Try a good synthetic or gut... or if all else fails, a good Poly / Synthetic hybrid
- If using Poly, string it a bit lower in tension than you would synthetic / gut.
- Hit your natural stroke... many people experience the power the PDR has and go a bit crazy with hit trying to hit everything hard for winners or serving like you're Roddick. The PDR produces great spin, if you are a topspin junkie then take advantage of what the PDR has to offer. If, like me, you hit a bit flat, then take more care of form and pay a bit more attention to your string setup.

And, regardless of the CORTEX (joke) use a dampener to help reduce vibration.

PED
07-28-2008, 06:58 AM
does the Aero pro also give tennis elbow because it is has a stiffness of 67 and PDR has a stiffness of 71 ?

Bubba gives good advice above. I owned both apdc and pdr and to me, the stiffness between the 2 feels greater than just 67 to 71. I found the apdc to be a good deal softer than the pdr and that gave me more options when it came to string setup. They are fantastic sticks and if you use proper technique, you really should not have arm issues. In a perfect world, I wish the apdc weighed the same as the PDR at 11.8 strung, that would be a great stick. I ended up switching to the storm tour in the end but would gladly play with either of the 2 you mentioned.

Baxter
07-28-2008, 07:19 AM
From my experience, it's all technique. I long played with a PS Classic (stiffness - 74) and nary a problem. Took a long time off, came back.

... the PDR (stiffness 71), which I've played with for 3 weeks or so feels like butter. No problems, except from some dead strings in the demo racquet. With natural gut, it feels fantastic and I'm not worried about the stiffness at all.

OTOH, using an Aerogel 200 (stiffness 64) gave me the worst tennis elbow of my life. Probably from trying to overhit to make up for the relative lack of power in the frame.

Summary (at least for me): it's all about form. If you hit everything in the sweet spot, you'll be fiiiiine.

Nobody hits everything in the sweet spot. I have Tennis Channel HD/ESPN2HD and a Dish 722 High Definition DVR (like a Tivo) and a 50 inch HD Panasonic plasma.

I can freeze and slow down to 1/15th speed with perfect clarity. It's AMAZING how many shots - even winners - are hit way off center by the best of the best. Many are hit near the frame.

gipper
07-28-2008, 07:28 AM
TE is caused by the load from the ball being transferred into the racquet and then into your arm. The key is to get the racquet to absorb the load and not transfer it into your arm. Ways to get racquet to absorb more of the load are to string at low tension, use a soft(gut) string, have a flexible absorbing racquet, have a larger string bed, and of course, hit the sweet spot--the most absorbing point on the string bed. A heavier racquet also will help-----but can cause shoulder problems for some. The equations say that a head light racquet will also help---but my personal experience hasn't proven this out for me. Then to complicate all this, you have the racquet design technology (PK is one of the best) which can either hurt or help load absorption. Also, be careful what you read about TE----you have players who have large strong arms---and they could hit with a cement racquet and it wouldn't hurt them. Players who have thin wiry arms are the ones that generally have TE problems. Hope this helps.

monomakh
07-28-2008, 07:49 AM
Nobody hits everything in the sweet spot.

No kidding, really? Irony, the lost art form.

The PDR's 100in2 head size is more forgiving of off-center hits, in my experience, than the 95-or-less that I had been using, including both stiffer and flexier frames.

To rephrase - while you can't dispute physics (at least not substantively here), I have experienced no problems with the PDR and TE due to stiffness and find that if I hit correctly, the TE does not arise. YMMV.

SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 09:19 AM
alright so Basically if I get everything in the sweet spot I wont have any problems .... well that is ok its not that I hit every shot in the sweet spot I do mishit a few times but I think it should be fine......

I currently use a 12 oz racquet which has a stiffness of 63 and it has a swing weight of 326 g and I have no problems with this racquet and the PDR is also somewhat similar ..

So thanks a lot for your replies it certainly did clear a few things in my head so I guess its time to get my PDR now :D

Thanks,

Bubba
07-28-2008, 09:46 AM
alright so Basically if I get everything in the sweet spot I wont have any problems .... well that is ok its not that I hit every shot in the sweet spot I do mishit a few times but I think it should be fine......

I currently use a 12 oz racquet which has a stiffness of 63 and it has a swing weight of 326 g and I have no problems with this racquet and the PDR is also somewhat similar ..

So thanks a lot for your replies it certainly did clear a few things in my head so I guess its time to get my PDR now :D

Thanks,

Just to point out that you will notice quite a bit of difference between 63 and 71 RA (all things being equal)

SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 09:58 AM
like hmm what ??

SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 10:00 AM
apart from the added power that is ... and shouldn't the Cortext and Woofer technology in the PDR help reduce strain on the arm and thus less chances of Tennis Elbow ?

Bubba
07-28-2008, 10:01 AM
Not that it's bad... just different. Demo them and have a feel.

SpEeDyZ
07-28-2008, 10:03 AM
I cant Demo because of my location..... and please can you answer my question in my previous post ?

monomakh
07-28-2008, 10:22 AM
The PDR simply won't feel as flexy. I notice this more on shots hit toward the head (as compared to my flexier sticks) - with the PDR you won't feel that the racquet is bending with the hit. With my other racquets on such shots it feels like the head of the racquet is quite a bit behind the handle (i.e. bent, then it straightens). This behavior does not happen with the PDR

... thus the feeling will be quite different.

fuzz nation
07-28-2008, 10:39 AM
Expect the PDR to have more of a crisp feel on contact and perhaps a little more pop, especially on volleys and serves. A softer frame like the Volkl C10 (stiffness rating also 63) gives me more of a "bow-whup" feel of the frame flexing when I hit a groundstroke while my stiffer ProStaffs have more of a quick pop - like the ball is leaving the stringbed a bit more quickly. Around the net, that crispness can be a more welcome feel, but from the baseline, the more flexible racquet has less of a harsh feel with an off center hit. In either case though, when I catch the ball on the sweetspot, it feels really nice.

The PDR is a pretty decent frame and you sound good and ready to give it a home. Because it's a different racquet than the one you've been using for a while, try to get a couple of low key hitting sessions with it before you play a full speed match. That ought to let you make some adjustments without piling on a lot of mishits - regardless of the frame you switch to, a lot of those mishits with an unfamiliar racquet can really irritate your arm.

A pal of mine has used the PDR's for a while and he was fine with them until he decided to switch to poly strings. Suddenly he got a real case of tennis elbow and after a break and some therapy, he could start playing again and when he did, he also decided to stack the odds for success in his favor and string those same frames with full natural gut - he uses 16 gauge VS Touch. After being back at it for several months, he has no new symptoms and his game is back to rock solid - he's a former college player with pretty sound strokes and we have really fun, heavy workouts. From what I've seen among the people in my tennis circle, I'd only caution you to stay away from the harsh strings like poly or kevlar if you have any concerns about staying healthy and take a little time getting used to your new stick.

Bubba
07-28-2008, 11:47 AM
I cant Demo because of my location..... and please can you answer my question in my previous post ?

Woofer has little effect as it's simply designed to enlarge the sweet spot by adding, or taking advantage of the string and frames 'potential'.

Cortex is INTENDED to reduce vibration through the top of the grip... much debase about this (Forum search if you please)... may feel no real value but rather a marketing gimik... you be the judge.

Toxicmilk
07-28-2008, 12:25 PM
As others have said, as long as your form is alright and you don't string too high..everything should be just fine. Personally, I find my form a bit sloppy and not so clean. I also string a poly over 60 lbs...no problems at all.

go for it :P

nadal&roddickfan
07-28-2008, 01:57 PM
its all about your form and muscle conditioning. If your form is good, then you shouldn't have too much of a problem. Proper muscle conditioning also helps prevent TE, as I hear. I know some people around the forums that get TE off of flexy racquets, its mostly all about the form, but high stiffness provokes TE more.

SpEeDyZ
07-29-2008, 01:30 AM
"not string too high"

I string my racquet at around 62 and I was thinking of stringing my PDR ( hopefully when I get it at 63 ) .. so will that increase the chances of tennis elbow ? And what If I use a vibrator ?

spkyEngrish
07-29-2008, 04:15 AM
"not string too high"

I string my racquet at around 62 and I was thinking of stringing my PDR ( hopefully when I get it at 63 ) .. so will that increase the chances of tennis elbow ? And what If I use a vibrator ?

:shock:

Assuming, and sincerely hoping, that you're referring to a "dampener". All that's going to do is reduce minor string vibrations - i.e. eliminate the ping sound during contact. It will do nothing to reduce frame vibration/shock, which is the primary culprit in TE.

SpEeDyZ
07-29-2008, 09:12 AM
we call it a vibrator here :D

JediMindTrick
07-29-2008, 01:22 PM
Yes! Use the vibrator!:)

SpEeDyZ
07-30-2008, 02:01 AM
What If God-Forbid I get tennis elbow ? what are the curative methods ... ?

kungfusmkim
07-30-2008, 06:41 AM
Most Babolat racquets are on a very high end of the stiffness scale which give no diversity for players who serve and volley or who are older..