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View Full Version : True talent beats all!


TB45
07-31-2008, 06:07 AM
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.

I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?

mendozer
07-31-2008, 07:06 AM
talent is more important

goober
07-31-2008, 08:05 AM
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.

I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?

Of course talent is important, if not the most important, aspect in recruiting- if you are at school that puts a premium on winning. Why do you think most of the big time D1 football and bball programs are filled with questionable characters and poor academic students, but guys that are top-rated at their position. There are some schools though in D3, NAIA and others that aren't all about winning at the coaches job is not at stake if he loses. He is the type that can afford to get high character and good students at the expense of talent.

Andres
07-31-2008, 08:09 AM
talent is more important
No way. Hard work is more important. Talent alone means squat!

hkem1
07-31-2008, 08:14 AM
Hard work beats talent only when talent fails to work hard

goober
07-31-2008, 08:22 AM
No way. Hard work is more important. Talent alone means squat!

So only if you worked harder as a kid you could have been in the NBA or top 100 ATP? You lazy bum!:)

Andres
07-31-2008, 09:12 AM
So only if you worked harder as a kid you could have been in the NBA or top 100 ATP? You lazy bum!:)
So only with your talent, you could be an ATP Top100 after playing tennis for 5 years? You lazy bum! :)

goober
07-31-2008, 09:24 AM
So only with your talent, you could be an ATP Top100 after playing tennis for 5 years? You lazy bum! :)

I have no tennis talent, only the heart of a lion and the indomitable will to get a few beers after a match:)

Gemini
07-31-2008, 10:27 AM
Talent is important but it means nothing without results. That's what he didn't tell you.

SlapShot
07-31-2008, 11:45 AM
Hard work beats talent only when talent fails to work hard

Great quote.

You really have to have both, but there are people who are simply more atheletic genetically. That's like the old saying - you can't teach "fast"/"tall".

Babb
07-31-2008, 12:04 PM
Hard work is the only way...

itsstephenyo
07-31-2008, 01:29 PM
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.

35ft6
08-03-2008, 01:05 AM
Not even sure how a coach would really know what a player's work ethic is like BEFORE they're on their team but okay.,,

atatu
08-05-2008, 07:21 AM
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.

Yeah, but we're talking tennis here, not band.....

SlapShot
08-05-2008, 07:31 AM
Yeah, but we're talking tennis here, not band.....

Similar situation, though. There's something to be said for having a "knack" for something - be it athletics, music, academics, etc. A lot of it is based in how quickly your body creates the neural paths for muscle memory, combined in athletics with the proper genetics/build.

If you think that someone who is a professional athlete is simply someone who worked harder than everyone else without having the pure physical talent to perform at that level, I think that you're sadly mistaken.

Babb
08-05-2008, 10:43 AM
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.

Band stories, eh?

I practiced my butt off and marched snare my freshmen year...

No substitute for hard work. There were much better musicians than me who did not do as well because they had not put in the time to improve their hands.

slice bh compliment
08-05-2008, 12:34 PM
...When I was in band, I ....

This one time?
At band camp?


[not sure why, but, i never get tired of that]

SlapShot
08-05-2008, 12:55 PM
Band stories, eh?

I practiced my butt off and marched snare my freshmen year...

No substitute for hard work. There were much better musicians than me who did not do as well because they had not put in the time to improve their hands.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that there isn't a place for hard work, but the fact of the matter is, someone who is a truly talented athelete that puts in the work is going to come out ahead of someone who may not be as gifted but puts in more time practicing.

Serve_Ace
08-05-2008, 01:30 PM
The best is a lot of talent mixed with hard work

atatu
08-05-2008, 01:56 PM
If you think that someone who is a professional athlete is simply someone who worked harder than everyone else without having the pure physical talent to perform at that level, I think that you're sadly mistaken.

That's not what I said. My point is that tennis is a bit more physical than "band" so the talented musician (that would be you) might be able to slack a bit more than his hapless band mate who practices every day. In tennis, you could be very talented, but if you don't work hard, it will catch up to you. If Roger Federer doesn't practice for a year, he'll lose to Andy Roddick.

goober
08-05-2008, 02:09 PM
That's not what I said. My point is that tennis is a bit more physical than "band" so the talented musician (that would be you) might be able to slack a bit more than his hapless band mate who practices every day. In tennis, you could be very talented, but if you don't work hard, it will catch up to you. If Roger Federer doesn't practice for a year, he'll lose to Andy Roddick.

yah but he wouldn't lose to a journeyman futures player that is working twice as hard as him.

AndrewD
08-05-2008, 02:31 PM
People need to understand that work ethic and discipline are talents. People will try to get by without them but, in the long-run, they won't succeed.

Also, it's not a talent if you didn't work to acquire it. So, those who are athletically more capable due simply to a win in the genetic lottery are more 'gifted' but not more talented. It's only talent when you do something with it.

atatu
08-06-2008, 08:25 AM
yah but he wouldn't lose to a journeyman futures player that is working twice as hard as him.

He could, depends on the player, someone like Devarman ?

goober
08-06-2008, 08:33 AM
He could, depends on the player, someone like Devarman ?

I don't consider Devarman a journeyman since he just started playing pro tennis! He obviously has top 50-100 potential. A career futures player in the 300-700 range is what I am talking about.

TB45
08-08-2008, 08:06 AM
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.
I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?


To add to this, a talented player with little work ethic can always be changed with pressure from a coach. "If you dont give 100%, you wont be here next year." I'm sure that'll make them think twice about slacking.

Hardworkers are always wanted but i think hard work will only take you so far. The pros train 6 or so hours a day and they're at (or near) their peak. IMO, most of us reach our peak in high school or college...so we'll be working harder than everyone else but we wont be improving much.

I should've made a poll about this...oh well. I say Talent > Hardwork

daddy
08-08-2008, 09:04 AM
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.


This is talent vs complete lack of it. What about talent vs average talent + hard work ?

federer envies me
08-10-2008, 05:59 AM
hard work is waaaaay more important

verdasco
08-10-2008, 05:29 PM
you really need both to be a great champion.

But if I was a coach and I had to choose one or the other for a student, I would choose talent. Discipline and Hard work can be taught.

TB45
08-10-2008, 07:07 PM
you really need both to be a great champion.

But if I was a coach and I had to choose one or the other for a student, I would choose talent. Discipline and Hard work can be taught.


Exactly! i think this is what the coach was implying!

Nanshiki
08-10-2008, 11:34 PM
Anyone can work hard and become decent, or even very good at anything, but in sports (and most things), talent is what separates amateurs from professionals.

When's the last time you heard of a pro who didn't have that much talent for the game, but worked his *** off to get where he was? Maybe 80 years ago with Rene Lacoste (who started playing at 16 or so)?

Look at Karlovic...would he have that serve if he wasn't 6'10"? Not likely.

helloworld
08-15-2008, 03:21 AM
Talent is more important than hard work. Although you need to have both at the top level of just about any field of work.

NickC
08-16-2008, 05:06 PM
A recent conversation with the assist. Pro at my club, who is a D-I coach:
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A: Mike, what is your stance on talent at the college level?
B: You get in on rankings and talent.
A: But what about hard work, where does that factor in?
B: You may get in on talent, but you don't stay on talent. If you think you can make it on talent alone, you'll get laughed off the courts, and out of the school. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it as you will.

ttbrowne
08-30-2008, 06:58 AM
If someone has talent AND puts in some hard work, they're gonna beat the less talented, harder worker 99% of the time.

You can't teach someone to have raw talent. Just like you can't teach speed.

Teamtomo
08-30-2008, 07:30 AM
talent is nothing without hard work

ClarkC
08-30-2008, 01:11 PM
A recent conversation with the assist. Pro at my club, who is a D-I coach:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: Mike, what is your stance on talent at the college level?
B: You get in on rankings and talent.
A: But what about hard work, where does that factor in?
B: You may get in on talent, but you don't stay on talent. If you think you can make it on talent alone, you'll get laughed off the courts, and out of the school. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it as you will.

I know of a blue chip recruit at a major Division I team who did not try very hard in practice but turned it on in matches. The coach explained numerous times that players who do not try hard enough in practice are not helping their teammates improve, and this is part of being on the team. Soon, that player was not asked to come back for the next year, even though he had been in the top 6. He had to transfer.