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smart_player
08-16-2008, 01:43 PM
...for pro's (especially doubles players) with Wilson K95?

It's common knowledge that nearly all pro's with a prestige mid+ microgel have a pro tour 280/630 underneath the pj.

So my question is the following: players such as Bjorkman,Nestor, Mirnyi, Bhupati, Woodbridge, Quareshi, Mahut e.t.c.

Shaolin
08-16-2008, 04:26 PM
probably a lot of prostaff 6.1s

yourmom08
08-16-2008, 04:34 PM
jack kramers....

Venetian
08-16-2008, 08:35 PM
probably a lot of prostaff 6.1s

I think he means which 6.1 though. I bet a lot of Classics and HPS 6.1's

Murray_Maniac
08-16-2008, 08:53 PM
Yea should be mostly 6.1's & classic prestiges.

Fedace
08-16-2008, 08:53 PM
Wilson T-2000. best racket ever made.

BreakPoint
08-16-2008, 09:02 PM
Mostly ProStaff 6.1 Classics, IMO.

Shaolin
08-16-2008, 09:34 PM
I think he means which 6.1 though. I bet a lot of Classics and HPS 6.1's

yeah thats what I meant. The 6.1 classic, which, along with myself, 84% of anyone who played in the 90s used at some point...

BreakPoint
08-16-2008, 09:39 PM
yeah thats what I meant. The 6.1 classic, which, along with myself, 84% of anyone who played in the 90s used at some point...
Is that a scientific statistic?

Because I hated that racquet back in the 90's.

FreshStew
08-16-2008, 11:38 PM
Why would a lot of players use the prostaff 6.1?:confused:

BreakPoint
08-17-2008, 12:09 AM
Why would a lot of players use the prostaff 6.1?:confused:
Because it's a "classic". They even stamped it on the side of the racquet in case you ever forgot. ;)

smart_player
08-17-2008, 12:13 AM
cheers for all your responses, could anyone who has played with this racket compare it to the current K Factor rackets aswell as the PC600 and PT280/630

BreakPoint
08-17-2008, 12:29 AM
The PS 6.1 Classic is much stiffer, heavier, and more powerful than the Head racquets, and much better for volleys.

smart_player
08-17-2008, 01:10 AM
cheers for all your responses. i was just wondering if anyone who has played with this racket can compare it to the current K95 aswell as the PC600 and the PT280/630

smart_player
08-17-2008, 01:11 AM
sorry problem with computer ignore the last post

Shaolin
08-17-2008, 01:24 AM
Is that a scientific statistic?

Because I hated that racquet back in the 90's.


Sarcastic generalization. Its about the only thing anyone I ever hit with used in the 90s though. Anyway if you hated it then you must have at least used it once (unless you judged it simply by looks), thus you are falling into my 84% stat:)

smart_player
08-17-2008, 01:48 AM
also, what exact playing characteristic(s) make it so popular amonst the pro's?

BreakPoint
08-17-2008, 02:22 AM
Sarcastic generalization. Its about the only thing anyone I ever hit with used in the 90s though. Anyway if you hated it then you must have at least used it once (unless you judged it simply by looks), thus you are falling into my 84% stat:)
Yes, I've hit with it but I've never owned one.

LPShanet
08-19-2008, 03:03 PM
...for pro's (especially doubles players) with Wilson K95?

It's common knowledge that nearly all pro's with a prestige mid+ microgel have a pro tour 280/630 underneath the pj.

So my question is the following: players such as Bjorkman,Nestor, Mirnyi, Bhupati, Woodbridge, Quareshi, Mahut e.t.c.

To clarify this situation, you have to take into account something that has been discussed on other threads: the fact that many of Wilson's pros (like Head's) get their frames from Wilson's pro room. The significance of that is that they often get custom layups rather than paintjobs of former stock frames. And since the PSC 6.1, HPS 6.1, N95, etc. all use essentially the same mold, it's somewhat pointless to discuss what is under the cosmetics. So they're using frames from that mold, but the layup may not be any of the above, nor are the specs the same as any of the production frames. They aren't post-leaded, they're made to spec.

Similarly, the Head pros are using frames based on the same mold as the 280/630, but to say that are actual old racquets painted to look like current production frames isn't accurate. They're custom makeups from an old mold. And in racquet construction, layup has as much or more to do with the final playing characteristics than the mold does.

JW10S
08-19-2008, 04:11 PM
The significance of that is that they often get custom layups rather than paintjobs of former stock frames. Similarly, to say that they are actual old racquets painted to look like current production frames isn't accurate. They're custom makeups from an old mold. And in racquet construction, layup has as much or more to do with the final playing characteristics than the mold does.Exactly. That some people so often state unequivocally what racquet is under a certain player's PJ as though they have x-ray vision is laughable. As was so well stated in the quote above, the mold a racquet comes from does not automatically tell you what the racquet is.

NoBadMojo
08-19-2008, 04:47 PM
To clarify this situation, you have to take into account something that has been discussed on other threads: the fact that many of Wilson's pros (like Head's) get their frames from Wilson's pro room. The significance of that is that they often get custom layups rather than paintjobs of former stock frames. And since the PSC 6.1, HPS 6.1, N95, etc. all use essentially the same mold, it's somewhat pointless to discuss what is under the cosmetics. So they're using frames from that mold, but the layup may not be any of the above, nor are the specs the same as any of the production frames. They aren't post-leaded, they're made to spec.

Similarly, the Head pros are using frames based on the same mold as the 280/630, but to say that are actual old racquets painted to look like current production frames isn't accurate. They're custom makeups from an old mold. And in racquet construction, layup has as much or more to do with the final playing characteristics than the mold does.

Exactly..it's all about the layup composition. Addionally, not only do many of the pros get custom layups with better materials, many of them send these special frames off to a Warren Bosworth <for example> for him to work his magic on and further customize. This is/was the case with the Bogomolov frames that were given to me...surprising light they were I might add. That Roman guy gets all the press around here, but I bet that Bosworth works on more pro frames than anyone.

Additionally, often these special pro frames are intentionally made lighter so they can be further customized.

I can say with some degree of confidence that none of the pros are using a frame from the 80's or 90's. they may be using racquets made from a mould from back then, but the graphite is different..i really dont think it is possible for manufacturers to even buy that old obsolete early generation graphite prepreg anymore..so if someone thinks they are using what a pro uses by buying an old Head frame for example, they are kidding themselves. Addionally an older used frame with earlier generation graphite would likely be badly fatigued and not play like new anyway.

In the case of Jokers frame,. seems as though the Wilson was able to make him something suitable like he was using before, so they likely offer that mould to other pros with maybe a different recipe..i think Wilson and Head prolly have a handful of options available to the pros to choose from.

The aftermath of the Joker frame is the retail kBlade which is the 'consumer grade' version of the racquet Joker swings, just like the k90 is the 'consumer grade' version of the Federer frame

johnkidd
08-19-2008, 04:50 PM
I'll join that 84%. I used the 6.1 std & stretch.

BounceHitBounceHit
08-19-2008, 06:56 PM
Is that a scientific statistic?

Because I hated that racquet back in the 90's.

Allow me to agree. The first ball I hit with that club flew the back fence. Seriously. It did. :) CC

BreakPoint
08-20-2008, 12:29 AM
The aftermath of the Joker frame is the retail kBlade which is the 'consumer grade' version of the racquet Joker swings, just like the k90 is the 'consumer grade' version of the Federer frame
Actually, Djokovic's racquet is a custom and different mold from the retail K-Blade Tour while Federer's racquet is the same mold and likely the same layup as the retail K90.

Wilson has said publicly many times that Federer's racquet is exactly the same one as the K90 sold in the stores, whereas, they have never made that statement about Djokovic's racqet. They just say that he uses the "K-Blade Tour", which he does, it's just that his uses a custom mold and layup and is not the same "K-Blade Tour" as the one sold in the stores. (Yes, they can give as many different frames the same marketing name as they wish.)

Rabbit
08-20-2008, 05:15 AM
...They're custom makeups from an old mold. And in racquet construction, layup has as much or more to do with the final playing characteristics than the mold does.

Exactly..it's all about the layup composition.

Exactly! This is the case with Stepanek's frame. The frame has the same hoop, sans throat and layup as a C10 Pro.

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 06:40 AM
Exactly! This is the case with Stepanek's frame. The frame has the same hoop, sans throat and layup as a C10 Pro.

it is remarkable that after you having several of your posts in the Stepanek thread deleted by the moderation, that you obsessively continue with this in a different thread

Rabbit
08-20-2008, 06:56 AM
it is remarkable that after you having several of your posts in the Stepanek thread deleted by the moderation, that you obsessively continue with this in a different thread

You're no stranger to the delete button either my friend.

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 07:20 AM
You're no stranger to the delete button either my friend.

i'm not the one spilling stuff into other threads. please dont call me your friend. pls find a way to stop your obsessive behaviour and to let this go. turning what someone says around and throwing it back in their face just isnt a very creative way to insult someone. stepanek doesnt use a c10..he uses some sort of v-engine frame...everyone can see. you also dont know the layup of his racquet as another poster indicated in this thread,,now please quit following me around like a lost puppy. find a way to quit stalking me.

slice bh compliment
08-20-2008, 07:36 AM
...stepanek doesnt use a c10..he uses some sort of v-engine frame...everyone can see. you also dont know the layup of his racquet as another poster indicated in this thread....

Whoa, easy there, GOAT.
And I thought you were ''in'' with Volkl.

...everyone can see?

What is visible:
The Stepper's got DNX 9 cosmetics with a more raked V throat than a stock DNX 9. Also, the grommets are 100% C 10 pro 98. Pretty obvious there if you get a close-up from another thread, which I will not bother posting.

Less visible:
The DNX wings and collar are just painted on. Totally flat, with nice silver paint. And the v throat is less box-beamed than the one on a DNX 10 mid or MP V-engine.

Not visible: the layup. But, could it be that 'the furry one' knows something Mojo does not?

Anyway, it's not a very common frame/PJ, so ... moving on....
I think the HEAD Pro Tour / Trysis 280 lurks underneath a few paintjobs. Also the old Prestige (I know a guy who played Challengers up until 2005 who has them in various iterations from Intelligence to Flexpoint to Microgel.

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 07:45 AM
Whoa, easy there, GOAT.
And I thought you were ''in'' with Volkl.

...everyone can see?

What is visible:
The Stepper's got DNX 9 cosmetics with a more raked V throat than a stock DNX 9. Also, the grommets are 100% C 10 pro 98. Pretty obvious there if you get a close-up from another thread, which I will not bother posting.

Less visible:
The DNX wings and collar are just painted on. Totally flat, with nice silver paint. And the v throat is less box-beamed than the one on a DNX 10 mid or MP V-engine.

Not visible: the layup. But, could it be that 'the furry one' knows something Mojo does not?

Anyway, it's not a very common frame/PJ, so ... moving on....
I think the HEAD Pro Tour / Trysis 280 lurks underneath a few paintjobs. Also the old Prestige (I know a guy who played Challengers up until 2005 who has them in various iterations from Intelligence to Flexpoint to Microgel.

so you are saying that the c10 is a v-engine frame??? he no longer even uses a raquet like you are describing by the way, isnt sponsored by Volkl, and the grommets cant be 100% c10 as the c10 doesnt have a v throat which requires different grommets than a c10......other than the above, perhaps something you posted is accurate ;) your post is a classic exaample of what happens when a poster has posts deleted, but just cant find a way to let it go

WChiang
08-20-2008, 07:50 AM
..... moving on....
I think the HEAD Pro Tour / Trysis 280 lurks underneath a few paintjobs. Also the old Prestige (I know a guy who played Challengers up until 2005 who has them in various iterations from Intelligence to Flexpoint to Microgel.

Yes. That the old Pro Tour frame is under many a paintjob as is a custom Dunlop Tour mold (maybe from the MW200g era?). Some of the more sane members of the board; Jura, vsbabolat, jolly, Rabbit have better info than I re: this stuff though.

slice bh compliment
08-20-2008, 08:01 AM
so you are saying that the c10 is a v-engine frame??? he no longer even uses a raquet like you are describing by the way, isnt sponsored by Volkl, and the grommets cant be 100% c10 as the c10 doesnt have a v throat which requires different grommets than a c10......other than the above, perhaps something you posted is accurate ;) your post is a classic exaample of what happens when a poster has posts deleted, but just cant find a way to let it go

Sorry, I was talking about the orange one from the recent past. And you're right, the grommets were not 100% c10 pro. The ones in the V are newer, probably from a tour 10 v. But at the head, they are c 10 pro grommets/bumpers.

Thanks for the correction.

BTW< your demeanor has soured. Is everything okay on the home front?

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 08:16 AM
Sorry, I was talking about the orange one from the recent past. And you're right, the grommets were not 100% c10 pro. The ones in the V are newer, probably from a tour 10 v. But at the head, they are c 10 pro grommets/bumpers.

Thanks for the correction.

BTW< your demeanor has soured. Is everything okay on the home front?

hey, i'm doing great thanks for your concern. how are you? i'm living the good life at the beach, great home, great dog, can pick and choose who i wish to teach tennis to, dont have to work anymore, Fay being a fickle female has changed direction away from us and has downgraded to tropical storm status, i get far more free racquets, strings, and clothes than i can possibly consume, happily single, feel great, etc.

i am, however very tired of being badgered, trolled, insulted, and stalked by the same 3 or 4 posters here on a daily basis. rabbits stuff is less severe, but he just doesnt know how to let stuff go and has some sort of vendetta thing going on which i dont wish to participate in..it gets old after a few years of the same old stuff..hope you like your day, and thank you again for your concern ;)

LPShanet
08-20-2008, 09:29 AM
Exactly. That some people so often state unequivocally what racquet is under a certain player's PJ as though they have x-ray vision is laughable. As was so well stated in the quote above, the mold a racquet comes from does not automatically tell you what the racquet is.

Thanks for the props. To be completely fair, though, I was talking specifically about the companies that have pro rooms, most notably Wilson and Head. For some, you can determine which stock frame they started with (e.g. Babolat) if you have good information, as they do work from stock frames if they don't offer pro room services.

LPShanet
08-20-2008, 09:39 AM
Whoa, easy there, GOAT.
And I thought you were ''in'' with Volkl.

...everyone can see?

What is visible:
The Stepper's got DNX 9 cosmetics with a more raked V throat than a stock DNX 9. Also, the grommets are 100% C 10 pro 98. Pretty obvious there if you get a close-up from another thread, which I will not bother posting.

Less visible:
The DNX wings and collar are just painted on. Totally flat, with nice silver paint. And the v throat is less box-beamed than the one on a DNX 10 mid or MP V-engine.

Not visible: the layup. But, could it be that 'the furry one' knows something Mojo does not?

Anyway, it's not a very common frame/PJ, so ... moving on....
I think the HEAD Pro Tour / Trysis 280 lurks underneath a few paintjobs. Also the old Prestige (I know a guy who played Challengers up until 2005 who has them in various iterations from Intelligence to Flexpoint to Microgel.

First off, let me state that I am not an insider at Volkl in particular. While I am privy to certain information at other companies, my insight in this case is purely based on experience with other manufacturers. That said, there are a few things you guys might want to consider here. Since frames are generally laid up without the bridge in place at first, it would be very easy to do a custom racquet that involved an existing frame (say the C10 Pro or equivalent) and then attach a different bridge (such as the V-engine suggested in this thread). I have no direct info that this is what's happening, but it's certainly something that would be easy to do. When a racquet is laid up in the mold, they create the shaft and hoop essentially in one step, bending the material around, and they then attach the bridge in a later step, so they don't have to use all one configuration if they don't want to. Not sure why Stepanek would be in love with a particular throat technology...but he's not famous for being a "normal" guy. Then again, the Eastern European chicks seem to dig him. Go figure. But back to the point... Once you had created the frame, it would also be easy to do the grommets as a combo. Simply use the strip made for the hoop's configuration, and then apply the throat piece that works with the bridge design you used there. Those are separate pieces anyway.

Just a possibility.

NoBadMojo
08-20-2008, 09:58 AM
First off, let me state that I am not an insider at Volkl in particular. While I am privy to certain information at other companies, my insight in this case is purely based on experience with other manufacturers. That said, there are a few things you guys might want to consider here. Since frames are generally laid up without the bridge in place at first, it would be very easy to do a custom racquet that involved an existing frame (say the C10 Pro or equivalent) and then attach a different bridge (such as the V-engine suggested in this thread). I have no direct info that this is what's happening, but it's certainly something that would be easy to do. When a racquet is laid up in the mold, they create the shaft and hoop essentially in one step, bending the material around, and they then attach the bridge in a later step, so they don't have to use all one configuration if they don't want to. Not sure why Stepanek would be in love with a particular throat technology...but he's not famous for being a "normal" guy. Then again, the Eastern European chicks seem to dig him. Go figure. But back to the point... Once you had created the frame, it would also be easy to do the grommets as a combo. Simply use the strip made for the hoop's configuration, and then apply the throat piece that works with the bridge design you used there. Those are separate pieces anyway.

Just a possibility.


Here is a picture of a racquet mould --> http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/image/staticarticle/IO_5629_staticarticle.JPG
The bridge part is part of the mould. The prepreg is bent in the shape you mention before putting it into the mould..the bridge piece is then added but obviously conforms to the shape of the mould..to make a v-engine frame like stepanek uses, you obviously need a v-engine mould...a c10 mould produces a c10 shaped bridge....the prepreg is then cooked

Rabbit
08-20-2008, 10:11 AM
hey, i'm doing great thanks for your concern. how are you? i'm living the good life at the beach, great home, great dog, can pick and choose who i wish to teach tennis to, dont have to work anymore, Fay being a fickle female has changed direction away from us and has downgraded to tropical storm status, i get far more free racquets, strings, and clothes than i can possibly consume, happily single, feel great, etc.

i am, however very tired of being badgered, trolled, insulted, and stalked by the same 3 or 4 posters here on a daily basis. rabbits stuff is less severe, but he just doesnt know how to let stuff go and has some sort of vendetta thing going on which i dont wish to participate in..it gets old after a few years of the same old stuff..hope you like your day, and thank you again for your concern ;)

Dude...you won't let it go. Suffice it to say that I know for 100% that Stepanek is using a C10 with a V in the throat. I spoke with Stepanek in Memphis, held his racket, and looked at it up close and personal. I know for sure that it is manufactured by Marshall Industries as I ran my finger across the sticker that was inside the throat of the racket that I held as it was given to me by Radek Stepanek in Memphis.

It is also clear that Volkl doesn't own the mould for these frames as he is still able to purchase them directly from Marshall with whatever cosmetic he likes.

Why this isn't good enough for you, I'll never know, but it is you who keeps posting incorrect information. And you really should stop mentioning posts getting deleted as you have as many as anyone that find their way to the round file.

Rabbit
08-20-2008, 10:12 AM
First off, let me state that I am not an insider at Volkl in particular. While I am privy to certain information at other companies, my insight in this case is purely based on experience with other manufacturers. That said, there are a few things you guys might want to consider here. Since frames are generally laid up without the bridge in place at first, it would be very easy to do a custom racquet that involved an existing frame (say the C10 Pro or equivalent) and then attach a different bridge (such as the V-engine suggested in this thread). I have no direct info that this is what's happening, but it's certainly something that would be easy to do. When a racquet is laid up in the mold, they create the shaft and hoop essentially in one step, bending the material around, and they then attach the bridge in a later step, so they don't have to use all one configuration if they don't want to. Not sure why Stepanek would be in love with a particular throat technology...but he's not famous for being a "normal" guy. Then again, the Eastern European chicks seem to dig him. Go figure. But back to the point... Once you had created the frame, it would also be easy to do the grommets as a combo. Simply use the strip made for the hoop's configuration, and then apply the throat piece that works with the bridge design you used there. Those are separate pieces anyway.

Just a possibility.

And what you've described is spot on!

samster
08-20-2008, 10:15 AM
Dude...you won't let it go. Suffice it to say that I know for 100% that Stepanek is using a C10 with a V in the throat. I spoke with Stepanek in Memphis, held his racket, and looked at it up close and personal. I know for sure that it is manufactured by Marshall Industries as I ran my finger across the sticker that was inside the throat of the racket that I held as it was given to me by Radek Stepanek in Memphis.

It is also clear that Volkl doesn't own the mould for these frames as he is still able to purchase them directly from Marshall with whatever cosmetic he likes.

Why this isn't good enough for you, I'll never know, but it is you who keeps posting incorrect information. And you really should stop mentioning posts getting deleted as you have as many as anyone that find their way to the round file.

That's good enough proof for me. Straight from Stepanek himself, can't get any better than that.

samster
08-20-2008, 10:16 AM
First off, let me state that I am not an insider at Volkl in particular. While I am privy to certain information at other companies, my insight in this case is purely based on experience with other manufacturers. That said, there are a few things you guys might want to consider here. Since frames are generally laid up without the bridge in place at first, it would be very easy to do a custom racquet that involved an existing frame (say the C10 Pro or equivalent) and then attach a different bridge (such as the V-engine suggested in this thread). I have no direct info that this is what's happening, but it's certainly something that would be easy to do. When a racquet is laid up in the mold, they create the shaft and hoop essentially in one step, bending the material around, and they then attach the bridge in a later step, so they don't have to use all one configuration if they don't want to. Not sure why Stepanek would be in love with a particular throat technology...but he's not famous for being a "normal" guy. Then again, the Eastern European chicks seem to dig him. Go figure. But back to the point... Once you had created the frame, it would also be easy to do the grommets as a combo. Simply use the strip made for the hoop's configuration, and then apply the throat piece that works with the bridge design you used there. Those are separate pieces anyway.

Just a possibility.

May be the babes are just digging his racket! :lol:

onehandbh
08-20-2008, 01:23 PM
I think the version the pros use is the 18x20 european version
though, not the 16x19 or 16x18 sold in the US or the 18x20
extended length version.

cork_screw
08-23-2008, 10:35 AM
Head Pro Tour 280 / Pro Staff 6.1 Wilson

Mostly Head Pro Tour 280

Bhagi Katbamna
08-23-2008, 11:20 AM
To clarify this situation, you have to take into account something that has been discussed on other threads: the fact that many of Wilson's pros (like Head's) get their frames from Wilson's pro room. The significance of that is that they often get custom layups rather than paintjobs of former stock frames. And since the PSC 6.1, HPS 6.1, N95, etc. all use essentially the same mold, it's somewhat pointless to discuss what is under the cosmetics. So they're using frames from that mold, but the layup may not be any of the above, nor are the specs the same as any of the production frames. They aren't post-leaded, they're made to spec.

Similarly, the Head pros are using frames based on the same mold as the 280/630, but to say that are actual old racquets painted to look like current production frames isn't accurate. They're custom makeups from an old mold. And in racquet construction, layup has as much or more to do with the final playing characteristics than the mold does.

Point is well taken but at some point, the pros were developing and used a commercially available fram that didn't have a custom layup. That is the frame they became used to and what they currently use is substantially like. Now, the frame they use currently may be a little different but I suspect that it is very similar to the fram that they grew up using.

cork_screw
08-23-2008, 11:29 AM
Actually, Djokovic's racquet is a custom and different mold from the retail K-Blade Tour while Federer's racquet is the same mold and likely the same layup as the retail K90.

Wilson has said publicly many times that Federer's racquet is exactly the same one as the K90 sold in the stores, whereas, they have never made that statement about Djokovic's racqet. They just say that he uses the "K-Blade Tour", which he does, it's just that his uses a custom mold and layup and is not the same "K-Blade Tour" as the one sold in the stores. (Yes, they can give as many different frames the same marketing name as they wish.)

sorry, it's not. stop saying it is when you don't know. it's annoying when people think they know something and profess it like their opinion is the absolute truth. you don't have any of his sticks so you don't know. you have no sources to wilson and you just want to believe this because you spent a lot of money to be like federer w/ his sticks.

vsbabolat
08-23-2008, 11:41 AM
10 character

BreakPoint
08-23-2008, 12:40 PM
sorry, it's not. stop saying it is when you don't know. it's annoying when people think they know something and profess it like their opinion is the absolute truth. you don't have any of his sticks so you don't know. you have no sources to wilson and you just want to believe this because you spent a lot of money to be like federer w/ his sticks.
Huh? And you know what I know? How is this?

And what does this have to do with me? I use whatever I want to use. It has nothing to do with Federer. Does Federer (or any pro) use a Dunlop Aerogel 100? And I didn't buy the K90 to be like Federer. Maybe that's something a kid like you does. I bought the K90 because I'm a long time user of the PS 6.0 95 (which almost hardly any pros ever used), and it's one of the closest things to it currently on the market.