2 problems and 2 questions

[SeekHeart]

I have a problem with my ground strokes at the moment, I seem to always be hitting with an open face, how can I learn to keep the face perpendicular?

My second problem is generating pace on my groundstrokes, I hit with decent pace but I can't hit with enough to end the point with an outright winner.

As for my questions, I'd like to ask if the kick serve is hit literally brushing up and to the right or is there a forward component as well?

My second question is how does one hit a drop shot that causes the ball to bounce back towards one's self? I've been trying to hit good drop shots but they tend to float.

[tennisfreak15347]

for your groundstrokes, incorporate your hips, your non-hitting arm, and your legs into the groundstroke motion. This is the main difference between a 3.5 and a 4.0

[SeekHeart]

I'm not really sure what my level is but according to a pro from like a year ago I was a 2.5 so... not sure what my level is cause all my peers said I improved a lot...

[montx]

I think the more you hit a ball the more you learn the levels of comfort you need to hit a more flat shot as opposed to an open shot.

There are many many variables but control what you can, the only way to gain control is to practice, you will feel 'it' when you will :).

Practice makes perfect...

[10s talk]

I have a problem with my ground strokes at the moment, I seem to always be hitting with an open face, how can I learn to keep the face perpendicular?

My second problem is generating pace on my groundstrokes, I hit with decent pace but I can't hit with enough to end the point with an outright winner.

As for my questions, I'd like to ask if the kick serve is hit literally brushing up and to the right or is there a forward component as well?

My second question is how does one hit a drop shot that causes the ball to bounce back towards one's self? I've been trying to hit good drop shots but they tend to float.

1) closed backswing

2) do not worry about pace

3) yes

4) drop shot is the last shot you need, so forget it

[kairosntx]

You should not hit your groundstrokes with the racquet face perpendicular to the ground. Your racquet face should be closed at contact. The amount the racquet face is closed depends on your grip and swing. A "classic" swing with a continental grip swings low to high with a slightly closed face which generates top spin. Not a lot of spin, but enough to generate more pace and keep the ball in. A western grip and windshield wiper swing has the face more closed at contact and generates heavy spin.

[kairosntx]

4) drop shot is the last shot you need, so forget it

I agree. This should be one of the last elements of your game to learn. And even then you would not want to generate the kind of spin on a drop shot that makes the ball bounce back toward you. The margin of error is too low to try that during a match. I remember learning the drop shot and one of the drills was to get the ball to bounce 3 times in the opponents servce box.

[SystemicAnomaly]

As 10s talk suggests, you should try closing the racket face your backswing. How much you close the face is somewhat dependent on the type of grip you employ. Suffice it to say that the racket face will be somewhat closed at the start of the forward swing and will hopefully be closer to square at contact.

Most ppl do not hit drop shots that bounce backward. If you are below a 4.0 level, I wouldn't even bother to master that kind of drop shot until you are better at more fundamental/practical shots.
.

[Tombhoneb]

I remember learning the drop shot and one of the drills was to get the ball to bounce 3 times in the opponents servce box.

For me it was how the drop shot was tested in my coaching exam!!

[SystemicAnomaly]

You should not hit your groundstrokes with the racquet face perpendicular to the ground. Your racquet face should be closed at contact...

For most low to medium trajectory groundstokes, the racket face is very close to perpendicular, especially with less extreme grips. Technically, the racket face can be ever-so-slightly closed at contact as long as there is a sufficient upward brush to impart topspin.

I would tend to instruct most 2.5 players (or even 3.5 players) to brush up with a fairly neutral racket face at contact. If instructed to hit with a closed racket face, many (not all) such players will tend to close the racket face too much and drive a high percentage of balls into the net.

[SeekHeart]

sounds like my problem, btw what is a great way to warmup?

[SystemicAnomaly]

^

For some ideas on a warmup for tennis check this (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2429081) post (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2429081).

.

[Interceptor]

I have a problem with my ground strokes at the moment, I seem to always be hitting with an open face, how can I learn to keep the face perpendicular?

Work at it.

My second problem is generating pace on my groundstrokes, I hit with decent pace but I can't hit with enough to end the point with an outright winner.

The answer to this one is not as simple, nor is it one component only.

First off, you have to already have a technically sound swing/stroke, don't expect too much if you're still having problems with your stroke's swings. Learn how to hit fh and bh correctly and consistent first.
Then, the next thing would be to swing freely/relaxed but with fast swing speed, but above all just practice practice practice. That's all there's to it.

As for my questions, I'd like to ask if the kick serve is hit literally brushing up and to the right or is there a forward component as well?

Wrong, you'd get a really slow serve this way. If you haven't learned this serve, start with this and with getting the ball in the box consistently, then add a lot of swing speed to this serve, as much as you can, you'll need it.

Of course there is a forward component, this's how you generate pace. Do this when you're better with it.

My second question is how does one hit a drop shot that causes the ball to bounce back towards one's self? I've been trying to hit good drop shots but they tend to float.

By applying a lot of backspin of course. But you'd better try a continental grip with this one, but not all the best DS bounce back of course!

[SeekHeart]

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to work on it a lot when I get on the courts. My groundstrokes are becoming more sound now, I actually got a pretty fast forehand on a rally, shame it didn't end the point T.T. I'm gettin there.

[ramseszerg]

You should not hit your groundstrokes with the racquet face perpendicular to the ground. Your racquet face should be closed at contact. The amount the racquet face is closed depends on your grip and swing. A "classic" swing with a continental grip swings low to high with a slightly closed face which generates top spin. Not a lot of spin, but enough to generate more pace and keep the ball in. A western grip and windshield wiper swing has the face more closed at contact and generates heavy spin.

Really, now, coach?. This is all news to me. I would've thought that if the face is closed at contact, the ball would be dumped into the net. Oh wait, that physical fact still holds true.

Especially with a semi-western or western grip, the racquet face might be closed at the takeback, but as you approach the contact point it squares up to be exactly perpendicular to the ground. And especially for a windshield wiper motion, it stays that way for a while after that.

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/federer/montage%20fed%203%20forehands.jpg
http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/images/turbo_03_06/fig13r.JPG
http://www.**************.com/image-files/how-to-play-forehand.jpg
http://www.fscamps.com/purchase/Jenny_forehand.jpg

[harr]

Really, now, coach?. This is all news to me. I would've thought that if the face is closed at contact, the ball would be dumped into the net. Oh wait, that physical fact still holds true.A small vertical force is exerted due to the upwards component of the racket's velocity. The ball may also have upwards momentum before contact. As far as I can tell this shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk) is a fairly typical one and it certainly looks like the face is closed at contact.

[Bungalo Bill]

I have a problem with my ground strokes at the moment, I seem to always be hitting with an open face, how can I learn to keep the face perpendicular?

Slow down your stoke and learn to glide the racquet face into the ball using a low to high swing. Bring the high part of the racquet face towards contact without changing its angle. Get a feel of your hand and the position it needs to be in.

[ramseszerg]

A small vertical force is exerted due to the upwards component of the racket's velocity. The ball may also have upwards momentum before contact. As far as I can tell this shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk) is a fairly typical one and it certainly looks like the face is closed at contact.

That is a big difference from telling a novice that the racquet face should be closed at contact. That player will go out and start dumping balls into the net 10 times out of 10.

[harr]

That is a big difference from telling a novice that the racquet face should be closed at contact. That player will go out and start dumping balls into the net 10 times out of 10.I agree. But your earlier statements suggest that the racket should not be closed at contact, rather than that you shouldn't try to close it at contact.

[SeekHeart]

ok I'm back from the courts and many improvements.

My kick serve now has the pace I want just need to work on getting it to bounce higher.

My slice serve still needs work in terms of getting it to curve in air.

My ground strokes unfortunately haven't improved much in terms of pace though I somehow learned to hit with a perpendicular face xD.

[SystemicAnomaly]

Really, now, coach?. This is all news to me. I would've thought that if the face is closed at contact, the ball would be dumped into the net. Oh wait, that physical fact still holds true.

Especially with a semi-western or western grip, the racquet face might be closed at the takeback, but as you approach the contact point it squares up to be exactly perpendicular to the ground...

Check out some of the slo-mo videos of forehands (Federer and others) on YouTube and you should be able to see that the racket face is often slightly, albeit very slightly, closed during contact. The amount of closed-ness is so slight, it does look like it is virtually perpendicular.

I talked about this in post #10 above. A significant upward brushing on the ball allows the ball to rise, even with a slightly closed contact. Note that Federer uses a mild SW (extreme Eastern), yet still will have a slightly closed racket face on many FH shots.

[Bungalo Bill]

You should not hit your groundstrokes with the racquet face perpendicular to the ground.

Actually you can and it is good practice to have someone developing their stroke to use this as a reference. The racquet face is actually slightly closed when a player tends to use a SW or Western grip. It is also good coaching to have a student try to have a perpendicular face because you do not get into the"degrees" or opinions on "how" closed the racquet should be. This allows the stroke to play out naturally.

When you start saying you should have your racquet closed, this can have a different meaning to different people. Instructing a player to keep the racquet perpendicular provides easy reference on something a player should really not be too picky on. Perpendicular is the way to go when teaching.

Your racquet face should be closed at contact. The amount the racquet face is closed depends on your grip and swing. A "classic" swing with a continental grip swings low to high with a slightly closed face which generates top spin.

Actually, it is very difficult to put an "amount" on how closed a racquet should be at contact. In general, if a player closes the racquet face it is usually slightly closed and it largely depends on what the player is doing. The racquet face being slightly closed is nothing to write home to mom about. It is largely due to the function of the grip and the swing path taken to the ball (i.e. WW, low to high, or a combination). However, at times, the racquet can be near perpendicular even with the Western grip.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=iQrhp2qVbyUU

http://z.about.com/d/tennis/1/5/I/E/10.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/da/fullj.02aadd668bfa261f1f9fef96946b09c7/02aadd668bfa261f1f9fef96946b09c7-getty-oly-2008-tennis-srb-rus.jpg

Not a lot of spin, but enough to generate more pace and keep the ball in. A western grip and windshield wiper swing has the face more closed at contact and generates heavy spin.

Well it can generate heavy spin. the other thing is the Continental grip tends to favor a square racquet face not a closed one.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04pL6k23xJbB1/610x.jpg

[Tallahassee_Technifibre]

When you say kick serve are you referring to the topspin serve or just a plain kick. Plain kick you just use shoulder muscle and brush upwards. Also put in a full bed off luxilon strung in at 65.

[SeekHeart]

I'm talking about the kick serve where it curves left bounces right.

Currently I have luxilon ALU rough mains with Babolat Natural Gut Crosses at 58,63 respectively.

[Bungalo Bill]

That is a big difference from telling a novice that the racquet face should be closed at contact. That player will go out and start dumping balls into the net 10 times out of 10.

Very good insight and intuition. I might come to the conclusion that you have actually coached some players and have experienced having to back out of instruction that you thought was a good thing but led you into a black hole.

Not that I teach this "closed racquet face" fiasco, but I have "jumped on a bandwagon" of other "advice" only to find myself trying to dig myself and my student out of a hole.

When you provide tips and instruction to players, always provide them with a reference point they can manage. The closed face tip is very difficult to provide a good reference for someone to guage there control of the racquet face. It drums up questions like "How closed? Very closed? A little closed? How closed in degrees? Twenty degrees? Do I stop and measure? Do I slow down my swing so I can see it to make sure? Why is my ball headed to China?"

When a player utilizes a technically correct stroke, is in a good grip of choice, and is relaxed through the swing, the racquet face, wrist, butt cap, and all these "little things" will take care of itself.

[SystemicAnomaly]

That is a big difference from telling a novice that the racquet face should be closed at contact. That player will go out and start dumping balls into the net 10 times out of 10.

Yes, this is almost exactly what I had said (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2623155) earlier in the thread. Thanks for backing me up on this. Kudos to BB for the further details & the pix.

[ramseszerg]

No BB, the only player I ever "coached" was my younger brother, who's just starting out. I said that partly based on common sense (the way he said it, it was telling the OP to REALLY close the racquet face) and partly based on my dumping balls into the net in the past, I guess.