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FastFreddy
08-25-2008, 02:57 PM
List how much you can bench.

Rickson
08-25-2008, 04:58 PM
345 lbs. in 2002 and currently, around 275, but I don't practice on the bench anymore. I took 2 years off from weight training and I was able to flat bench 225 lbs. the first time I tried it again so I'm pretty sure that I could once again bench over 315 if I practiced. These days, I prefer to do dips in the park and I can do a lot of them due to my strong presses from back in the day.

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-25-2008, 05:11 PM
dips kill your shoulders, dont do them

Rickson
08-25-2008, 06:00 PM
Deep dips are tough on the shoulders for beginners, but trust me, I'm no beginner. I'm extremely strong in the pressing department and although, deep dips (dips beyond parallel) are not recommended for beginners, I'm pretty sure a guy like me is safe. Remember, I was able to bench 3 plates on each side and I could dip with 3/45 lb. plates in between my legs so your advice doesn't apply to men of my strength.

cncretecwbo
08-25-2008, 06:28 PM
List how much you can bench.

how about weight too?
and power clean, squat and deadlift

i bench 155 for 5, maybe 175 for 1
i weight 175

i power clean 165, squat maybe 250-270 (i dont max), and deadlift 290 for 5, so maybe 310-315 for 1?

FastFreddy
08-25-2008, 06:31 PM
Here are my best bench numbers at certain body weight.
158 benched 225
170 benched 300
185 benched 340
192 benched 365
206 benched 385
213 benched 405
223 benched 425
Now I still can put up 385 at 209, but I benching is wrecking my right shoulder again. So I do 285 for 15 reps 3 sets. I have too get a mri on my shoulder this week I think I tore it up on the tennis court 3 weeks ago hitting a high two hand backhand and hurt it again this past weekend on the backhand again. I already had two rotator cuff surgery one one the left and one on the right. I think I need another one on the right or lots of pt and no more bench and switch to a one hand backhand.

Rickson
08-25-2008, 06:47 PM
You're a big mofo. Why don't you cut back on the bench weight if you have shoulder problems? I had to stay away from presses altogether a couple of years ago and my shoulders feel good now. My right shoulder was hurting badly from serving so I cut back on the tennis and didn't weight train at all. Sometimes rest is the answer.

Trasher
08-25-2008, 06:58 PM
dips kill your shoulders, dont do them

Ha maybe they kill you, I've never had problems with them, and I do them deep, always. These are not for everybody:)

Deep dips are tough on the shoulders for beginners, but trust me, I'm no beginner. I'm extremely strong in the pressing department and although, deep dips (dips beyond parallel) are not recommended for beginners, I'm pretty sure a guy like me is safe. Remember, I was able to bench 3 plates on each side and I could dip with 3/45 lb. plates in between my legs so your advice doesn't apply to men of my strength.

Hey I've been wanting to know for a long time now, if deep dips are bad for your shoulders or whatever, because I have always done them deep. I'm 19, but for like 2-3 years I have been doing them and not doing them, I always did them deep, and I never felt problems anywhere whatsoever, but then I've read in many places that it's bad to do them deep, and since I have never felt anything, I wonder if they ment in the long run or something?:confused:

Oh but I always do them without weights, don't like weights.

Same thing for deep bench dips, have you ever done them? I also read that those are bad too, but again I do them deep and it feels good. What do you think?

List how much you can bench.

Well, the most I ever benched was 97 lbs. I think, LOL! But I didn't get into that exercise

Rickson
08-25-2008, 07:39 PM
The more flexible you are, the less dangerous they are for you. Take gymnasts for example. High level gymnasts can do a full split without any problems at all, but someone who isn't used to all that dynamic and static stretching would not come close to a full split. Depth on dips depends a lot on the individual and not on the generalization that deep dips are bad for the shoulders. If we follow that philosophy, we shouldn't weight train at all because something's gonna get strained sooner or later. If you're comfortable doing deep dips, don't worry about it.

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-25-2008, 07:46 PM
umm... no my physical therapist who was helping me rehab my surgically repaired shoulder told me that. Lowering yourself in the dip exercise brings the humerus way out in front, and it's not ideal. The major benefit of the dip exercise is the triceps, why dont you just do a normal tricep routine.

Incline bench is also bad on the shoulder, especially bad on your biceps. It leaves your bicep tendon exposed.

and i bench 175 @12, 195 @ 10, 215 @ 8 for now...

It's meaningless if you dont mention how much you weigh (a bigger person can definitely bench more). I'm 140lbs

the wise wizard
08-25-2008, 07:50 PM
i can only do 140-145.....im 6'2" 200lbs....... and apparently very weak

Rickson
08-25-2008, 07:57 PM
I used to train a physical therapist, son. Your PT does not know more than I do about exercises. Rehab, perhaps, exercises, no.

BTW, I do dips as a chest exercise.

Anthonycole
08-25-2008, 08:03 PM
I never cared for bench but my max was 205.

but my power clean is at 300 at 185 body weight. I competed in school and beat out every weight class, next closest was 285.

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-25-2008, 08:11 PM
damn SON, dont gotta be all defensive and gloat. Just trying to share my experience say that dip puts unnecessary stress on your shoulders. If i'm correct, and please do correct me if i'm wrong son. Rehab is all about restoration and maintenance. One must know a good deal about the complexity of a joint and know what to lock on, and what to avoid in order to restore and maintain function.

Just out of curiosity, do you actually have a degree as a PT and have you actually helped someone with rehab?

Rickson
08-25-2008, 08:15 PM
I was certified by ACE, and Apex which is a division of NASM. One of my clients was a physical therapist and although she knew more about bodyparts than I did, I knew how to exercise those bodyparts better than she did although I wouldn't doubt that she knew more when it came to rehabilitating injured muscles and joints. Anything else you'd like to know, son?

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-25-2008, 08:31 PM
nope, that would be all thank you. Dont try to get into people's faces just cause they're trying to share something son

Trasher
08-25-2008, 08:33 PM
The more flexible you are, the less dangerous they are for you. Take gymnasts for example. High level gymnasts can do a full split without any problems at all, but someone who isn't used to all that dynamic and static stretching would not come close to a full split. Depth on dips depends a lot on the individual and not on the generalization that deep dips are bad for the shoulders. If we follow that philosophy, we shouldn't weight train at all because something's gonna get strained sooner or later. If you're comfortable doing deep dips, don't worry about it.

Yeah, I'm flexible enough to do them deep, I've never had shoulder problems before, until now though (but that was from doing something else, which will go unmentioned due to it's great stupidity...) but anyways, even with that shoulder nuisance I'm having right now, it doesn't bother me still.

This pain used to be in my shoulder, where it connects with the arm, and since I started doing exercises, like push ups and just bodyweight exercises, it seems it has started to move upwards and now I feel it in my clavicule, near my neck.:confused: What the hell?

I don't remember exactly how I got that pain, but my guess would be that first I may have got it from playing too much resident evil 4, because when those zombies grab you, you have to move the left analog stick left and right really fast, and since I played many hours and got caught many times, I did that left-to-right motion too many times and that's when it all started hurting, I couldn't do any shot when I played tennis, it felt like my arm would break off. So I rested from tennis, began doing exercises and suddenly the pain disappeared, but now it came back somehow, but I think it could have been from swinging a dumbbell bar.

heycal
08-25-2008, 08:50 PM
I've seen some articles and videos by this trainer guy Tom Purvis, and he too says dips are awful for the shoulders.

But I've never heard incline bench press is bad for shoulders, or biceps. (DE-cline maybe.) Anyone know about this claim?

Rickson
08-25-2008, 08:50 PM
Listen, Say Lo, you went off about how dips kill your shoulders and not to do them when this thread wasn't even about dips. You took a direct shot at me and not the other way around. Dips are a chest exercise so your advice about doing bench dips was very bad for those who want to do dips as a chest enhancer. It's always a good idea to do some research before you give questionable advice. If you don't want to research your advice, save the advice giving for the professionals.

Trasher
08-25-2008, 08:54 PM
Listen, Say Lo, you went off about how dips kill your shoulders and not to do them when this thread wasn't even about dips. You took a direct shot at me and not the other way around. Dips are a chest exercise so your advice about doing bench dips was very bad for those who want to do dips as a chest enhancer. It's always a good idea to do some research before you give questionable advice. If you don't want to research your advice, save the advice giving for the professionals.

hey did you read my post to you?

Rickson
08-25-2008, 08:59 PM
Cal, I never met Purvis in person, but I met guys who trained directly under him at NASM and I'm not talking about his clients. Purvis was the inventor of the 6 steps to exercise utilized by NASM. You probably saw this guy in those bowflex commercials. He's the guy who points at the exercisers' bodyparts and says
"look at those muscles working!". Purvis left NASM to work with Bowflex. I'd suspect Purvis is promoting some Bowflex exercise if he says dips are bad for you. Purvis is known as Mr. alterior motive.

Rickson
08-25-2008, 09:02 PM
Trasher, don't worry about it. Deep dips are fine for guys like us. Stop playing that zombie game.

heycal
08-25-2008, 09:08 PM
Cal, I never met Purvis in person, but I met guys who trained directly under him at NASM and I'm not talking about his clients. Purvis was the inventor of the 6 steps to exercise utilized by NASM. You probably saw this guy in those bowflex commercials. He's the guy who points at the exercisers' bodyparts and says
"look at those muscles working!". Purvis left NASM to work with Bowflex. I'd suspect Purvis is promoting some Bowflex exercise if he says dips are bad for you. Purvis is known as Mr. alterior motive.

No, it wasn't related to bowflex. He had his owns series of videos about his theories of safe and effective lifting technique and training. I think I have some of them around. If I recall, the exercises he thought were bad for you were dips, behind the neck pulldowns, maybe sled leg press -- incline leg press was ok, though -- and possibly decline presses. Also some other machines or exercises that I can't recall now that he believed made your muscles/joints move in unhealthy ways.

I talked to him on the phone once years ago. He seemed like a enthusiastic guy who was passionate about encouraging safe and effective training. He may be wrong in his beliefs, or a shyster of some sort, but he seemed geniune.

Trasher
08-25-2008, 09:26 PM
Trasher, don't worry about it. Deep dips are fine for guys like us. Stop playing that zombie game.

Yeah, I don't play it anymore! LOL. Good game though

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-25-2008, 10:11 PM
Listen, Say Lo, you went off about how dips kill your shoulders and not to do them when this thread wasn't even about dips. You took a direct shot at me and not the other way around. Dips are a chest exercise so your advice about doing bench dips was very bad for those who want to do dips as a chest enhancer. It's always a good idea to do some research before you give questionable advice. If you don't want to research your advice, save the advice giving for the professionals.

umm... look back and i only commented about dips. Then you went on to say how you know more than my PT (an attack at my PT?), I'm grateful for my PT so yeah, I would defend him... and dont son me, son

That's when i went on to ask for your credential

Also, i didnt say anything about "bench dips", i've never even heard of it (yeah i'm no professional)

It's always a good idea to do some reading before you do some questionable accusations. If you dont want to read closely, save the advice giving for those who's been through it. Really bad if you're a professional.

back to bench pressing

purple-n-gold
08-25-2008, 10:40 PM
500lb way back in the 90's, but probably couldn't do 315lb now due to no free weights in last 6 years.

some6uy008
08-26-2008, 12:26 AM
500lb way back in the 90's, but probably couldn't do 315lb now due to no free weights in last 6 years.

You big guys bring images of Lou Ferrigno running around the courts with a palm size racket.

onehandbh
08-26-2008, 01:07 AM
It's meaningless if you dont mention how much you weigh (a bigger person can definitely bench more). I'm 140lbs

Weight is also meaningless without a person's height. For example,
my skinny frog arms and frog legs make me lighter than other people
that are my height.

FastFreddy
08-26-2008, 07:05 AM
I also met Tom Purvis back in 1995 when I got my NASM advanced personal trainer cert. Cool guy alot of people goof on him at because of bowflex thing but you would sell everything if they give you the money. I also had certs from ACE, ACSM, ISMA, NFTA, NSCA, Keiser power pacer spinning instructor and a cert in active isolated stretching from Phil Warton. My friend benched 500 at 325 no roids and a roided trainer did 365 at 135 that's 2.68 percent of his body weight.

FastFreddy
08-26-2008, 08:38 AM
I first tore up my right shoulder in Junior A hockey not bench and that finished my hockey career. Got it fixed and all was good back to heavy benching then playing tennis with my friend Dave who played #5 for Duke. When I first played him he beat me by 1-2 breaks. Two years later I could beat him two breaks but I tore up my left shoulder to beat him not a good trade off. Clay might be good for your knees but its hell on your shoulder.


Hitting 8-12 shoulder height or higher balls instead of 5-8 balls waist to chest height balls on hard court.
No more clay tennis for me. I rested my shoulder for 3 weeks no bench and hitting one hand backhands no two handers. I started hitting the two hander last week then kept the bench at 285 all was good then I messed it my this past weekend hitting a two handed top spin lob. I will rest it for 6 weeks or just get it looked at this week I think I really tore it up again.

I guess I shouldn't play any more against 25 year old Div one players since my 35 year old body can't keep up any more.(my shoulder) I put these two guys on one side of the court and me on the other side and played some games and drills. I reached for a high backhand which was not hard but I reached out in front of me and heard something pop and give out in my right shoulder. I tried to hit a two hander after that but my arm would give out. Its funny I can still serve but my arm doesn't like going across my body. I been doing my pt before I lift or play tennis I hope I didn't rip up something else in my right shoulder.

Rickson
08-26-2008, 10:00 AM
OK, Chin Lo; my fault on the bench dips. I should have stated that dips are used more often as a chest exercise than as a tricep exercise. Sure you involve triceps, but so does every pressing exercise. Why would you recommend doing tricep alternatives when most people do dips as a chest exercise? That's what made me curious.

logansc
08-26-2008, 10:18 AM
Question for the experts...what are the advantages/ disadvantages of using dumbells for bench press instead of the bar+plates?

Rickson
08-26-2008, 10:40 AM
Question for the experts...what are the advantages/ disadvantages of using dumbells for bench press instead of the bar+plates?

With the barbell, your hands are in a fixed position so your range of motion is more limited. You also need a spotter when attempting a very heavy weight, but with the dumbbells you can just drop them if you need. I actually used dumbbells to improve my bar press. I often worked out without a spotter so I used heavy dumbbells for safety. My barbell press went up dramatically as a result of dumbbell training. Barbell presses are actually easier to do lb. for lb. because the bar is easier to balance. For example, I could press 315 on the bar for 2 reps, but only 125 on the dumbbells. Simple arithmetic would say that I should be able to dumbbell press 155-160 lb. dumbbells, but because of the balancing act, I probably couldn't have done them. I say probably because 125 were the heaviest dumbbells in the gym where I used to work so it's hard to say for certain. Either way, dumbbell presses are more difficult to do than barbell presses P4P. To recap: The barbell can be used with heavier weights than with dumbbells and it's a good way to develop pressing power. The drawback is that you'd need a spotter when using heavy weights. Dumbbells are good for a deeper stretch at the bottom and top of the movement. You also don't need a spotter with dumbbells. A drawback is that you can't go as heavy because of the difficulty in balancing dumbbells. Most gyms don't carry huge dumbbells for extremely strong members.

logansc
08-26-2008, 10:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback

heycal
08-26-2008, 10:58 AM
I think you do sort of need a spotter for dumbbells, at least I would like one. I feel I could bench more weight than I could comfortably pick up and swing into position, you know?

Plus, dropping dumbbells on the floor isn't not always appreciated or practical.

FastFreddy
08-26-2008, 11:20 AM
All the guys I seen over the years are strong on dumbells and weaker at barbell or the other waty around.
I am strong at barbell and stink at dubbell it comes down to which one you do more of. Most people get better at one than forgot about the other one. You can do both and get strong at both switch every other workout. If you want to go heavy on bench and can't find a good spotter at the gym use the smith machine thats what I use since my two shoulder tears.

Anthonycole
08-26-2008, 05:09 PM
with dumbells, both sides are having to work independently so all the muscles are being worked equally.

Rickson
08-26-2008, 06:11 PM
The barbell also works both sides equally, but not on most Smith machines. Some Smiths have independent left and right movement, but most just go straight up and down so you can cheat on one side. Dumbbells and the barbell bench press do not allow cheating on one side. I have a slight preference for the bar, but dumbbells are very good too.

10sfreak
08-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Actually Rickson, the dip can be used to emphasize either the chest or the triceps, depending on your body position. I'm sure you already know this, but for some of the others, if you lean forward when doing dips, you emphasize the pecs; if you keep your body more upright, you'll emphasize the triceps.

Rickson
08-26-2008, 06:57 PM
You get the chest involved even if you're upright. I do dips for 3 bodyparts; the chest, triceps, and deltoids. On chest day, I tend to lean forward like you said. On delt day, I go straight up and down and do not lock out. On tricep training, I make sure to lock out the elbows.

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-26-2008, 08:33 PM
Question to everyone, the strength you gain from benching dumbells, does that strength translate to bar bench?

For some reason, that doesn't happen to me. But my bar benching strength increase my overall strength in all exercise...

TnTBigman
08-27-2008, 03:53 AM
i currently bench 270lbs using 4sec negatives though. could be higer if it were regular. my weight is 240. don't go past the bar being parallel to the chest.
warm ups are 225lbs for 17-19 reps regular.

chess9
08-27-2008, 07:49 AM
I do something like 80-100 lbs for the first set, depending on how wussy I'm feeling. Then I build. Second set is usually about 130-140 lbs. at 8 reps. Third set is typically 160-170 range for 6-8 reps. If I've feeling studly I'll do a few reps at 180 or so, but usually NOT.

I only bench a few times each month, but do dips twice per week. The problem I have with benching is my pecs can overpower my back muscles and my tennis is RUINED. I don't find having a big strong chest contributes anything to stroke production. One needs to only look at FED and Rafa for confirmation of the validity of that view, IMHO.

-Rober

FastFreddy
08-27-2008, 08:42 AM
Very smart not letting the bar go past parallel. When you lift you should have a 90 degree bend at your elbow to your forearm and a 90 degree from your elbow to your side of your body at the bottom of the lift. Remember Andre could bench 300 at 170 you says bench can't hurt your strokes.

The only time weight lifting doesnot work for sports is when the player just adds lifting on top of all their training. Over training is too much volume and risk of injury. Then they say weight training didn't help them. You have to replace some of your hitting time with weights so not to get stale and feel fresh and get stronger not tried.

You also want to figure out if you want to lift on the days you play your sport. I always lift or bike before hockey but for tennis I like to bike or jump rope some times if lift before a match but it could make you too pumped or tired before your match and mess with your feel.

dcottrill
08-27-2008, 11:27 AM
I do something like 80-100 lbs for the first set, depending on how wussy I'm feeling. Then I build. Second set is usually about 130-140 lbs. at 8 reps. Third set is typically 160-170 range for 6-8 reps. If I've feeling studly I'll do a few reps at 180 or so, but usually NOT.

I only bench a few times each month, but do dips twice per week. The problem I have with benching is my pecs can overpower my back muscles and my tennis is RUINED. I don't find having a big strong chest contributes anything to stroke production. One needs to only look at FED and Rafa for confirmation of the validity of that view, IMHO.

-Rober


If I may ask, how much do you weigh? I get the impression from reading your posts that you probably don't weigh much more than 180. If you're benching your body weight for reps, you must be in about the 98th percentile or so for men your age. That's pretty impressive.

kimbahpnam
08-27-2008, 11:44 AM
What's a bench press? :)

chess9
08-27-2008, 03:35 PM
If I may ask, how much do you weigh? I get the impression from reading your posts that you probably don't weigh much more than 180. If you're benching your body weight for reps, you must be in about the 98th percentile or so for men your age. That's pretty impressive.

This morning I was 170 lbs. I've been lifting since I was 8 years old. From age 29 to 32 I was heavily into power lifting. I still lift two days per week, unless I'm not playing tennis, in which case it's three days per week.

We have a guy at my gym who is 70 something, a bit shorter than me and about 185 pounds. He does reps with 225 like he was lifting fly paper. There are lots of strong guys out there, though few of them are over 50.

I don't know what percentile I'm in lifting wise and would like to know. Do you have a cite for that 98th percentile?

I do know that most tennis players my age don't lift much, if at all. And many males over 50 are NOT lifting despite the widespread advice to do so.

By the way, I saw my orthopedic surgeon two days ago and he told me that I was the fittest guy he's seen in a month. Although I've had guys ask me if I were on 'the patch' (androgel or similar) because I'm so lean, I was chuffed to monkeys when the ortho made that comment. Now, can he fix my lousy back? ;)

Anyway, yeah, I hear you. Anyone can say anything on the net. Take it all cum granula salis unless they are willing to meet you in the gym, eh?

Edit: I found these records by age. 303 lbs for a 165 lb male, age 65! :) http://www.usapowerlifting.com/records/american/men-benchpress.htm

-Robert

heycal
08-27-2008, 04:10 PM
Although I've had guys ask me if I were on 'the patch' (androgel or similar) because I'm so lean

What is the patch, Robert?

chess9
08-27-2008, 04:15 PM
What is the patch, Robert?

Testosterone patch, e.g. Androgel. Look here:http://www.androgel.com/

One of the guys who plays at our club-a lawyer buddy-is on it. He has beatch teats, lots of visceral fat, and a stooped posture. I'm sure he needs it! I hope he doesn't read this! ;)

-Robert

chess9
08-27-2008, 04:16 PM
Here's a great site I just found. LOL! Read it and weep: http://www.pipeline.com/~dada3zen/average.htm

I don't vouch for any of that information.

-Robert

x5150
08-27-2008, 04:31 PM
Is dumbbell bench better in regards to safety, even muscle development, shoulder injury? I barbell bench'd 295 back in the day but it always seemed to hurt my left shoulder. So I just did dumbbell bench all the time, last rep at 120lbs on each side.

Now I can barely do 45 lbs on the dumbbell bench cuz my left shoulder is hurts. It doesn't effect my tennis at all though. My chiropractor said to get mri, but I don't got $400 to burn and don't know if there's some other cheaper route I can go. Is there?

heycal
08-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Testosterone patch, e.g. Androgel. Look here:http://www.androgel.com/

Thanks. Wonder how many years I got until I may need one...

As for lifting, it seems like every other poster in this thread has some sort of lifting-related shoulder problem. That's kind of scary. What is that telling us?

Rickson
08-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Remember the old doctor joke? Doc, it hurts when I do this and doc says, don't do that. Well that old joke holds a lot of truth when it comes to weight lifting. If your shoulder hurts when you bench press, whether it be the barbell or dumbbells, then don't do that. You can either stay away from that particular exercise until you heal properly or you can go lighter. I choose to do the latter so I find a weight that gives me zero pain and I'm off to the races. Pain is an indicator of something not being right, not a sign that you should fight through it. I used the no pain on weights strategy when my right shoulder was injured from serving and in a few weeks, I was dumbbell pressing at almost 100% pain free. I was using very light dumbbells on shoulder presses (25 lbs.), which is a far cry from my normal 65-80 lb. DB shoulder presses, but any dumbbell over 30 would cause this pinch in my right shoulder. Remember, lighten the load until you feel no pain at all or stay away from the exercise altogether.

chess9
08-27-2008, 04:43 PM
Is dumbbell bench better in regards to safety, even muscle development, shoulder injury? I barbell bench'd 295 back in the day but it always seemed to hurt my left shoulder. So I just did dumbbell bench all the time, last rep at 120lbs on each side.

Now I can barely do 45 lbs on the dumbbell bench cuz my left shoulder is hurts. It doesn't effect my tennis at all though. My chiropractor said to get mri, but I don't got $400 to burn and don't know if there's some other cheaper route I can go. Is there?

As Rickson noted, dumbbell press maxes are about 70-80% of your barbell press. Generally, they are better for building strength and mass, IMHO, because they activate more muscle fibers and work the smaller stabilizer muscles.

Given the large disparity between your max bench and current bench with left arm, I'd guess you have an injury of some sort. You should consult a doctor, if you can afford it. Otherwise, vote for Obama. ;)

-Robert

chess9
08-27-2008, 04:45 PM
Remember the old doctor joke? Doc, it hurts when I do this and doc says, don't do that. Well that old joke holds a lot of truth when it comes to weight lifting. If your shoulder hurts when you bench press, whether it be the barbell or dumbbells, then don't do that. You can either stay away from that particular exercise until you heal properly or you can go lighter. I choose to do the latter so I find a weight that gives me zero pain and I'm off to the races. Pain is an indicator of something not being right, not a sign that you should fight through it. I used the no pain on weights strategy when my right shoulder was injured from serving and in a few weeks, I was dumbbell pressing at almost 100% pain free. I was using very light dumbbells on shoulder presses (25 lbs.), which is a far cry from my normal 65-80 lb. DB shoulder presses, but any dumbbell over 30 would cause this pinch in my right shoulder. Remember, lighten the load until you feel no pain at all or stay away from the exercise altogether.

I had the same problem last year. I was barbell pressing 120 lbs, max. for a few months because of shoulder impingement near the bottom. I layed off for a few months and am now fine.

-Robert

Rickson
08-27-2008, 04:53 PM
Good for you, Robert! I'm glad to hear it and you know that you have another option. The zero pain workout is a combination of a workout and rehab so don't feel like you're not getting a true workout just because you're doing 1/3 of your usual weight, take it as a way to strengthen and rehabilitate that injured body part.

chess9
08-27-2008, 04:58 PM
Thanks. Wonder how many years I got until I may need one...

As for lifting, it seems like every other poster in this thread has some sort of lifting-related shoulder problem. That's kind of scary. What is that telling us?

Lifting is mostly safe, Cal. Honestly. Even when I was lifting really heavy when I was younger I was rarely injured. (Got tendinitis in my left elbow a few times.) But, once you start doing MAX lifts, you are in danger of getting an injury. Which is why I don't do them at my age.

If you stay fit, eat right, and have some luck, you shouldn't need T replacement therapy for awhile. :) Oh, and by 'luck', you know what I mean? ;)

-Robert

chess9
08-27-2008, 05:00 PM
Good for you, Robert! I'm glad to hear it and you know that you have another option. The zero pain workout is a combination of a workout and rehab so don't feel like you're not getting a true workout just because you're doing 1/3 of your usual weight, take it as a way to strengthen and rehabilitate that injured body part.

Absolutely! I never lift through pain. I differentiate pain from strain. :)

-Robert

heycal
08-27-2008, 07:51 PM
You should consult a doctor, if you can afford it. Otherwise, vote for Obama

Good one!

Remember the old doctor joke? Doc, it hurts when I do this and doc says, don't do that. Well that old joke holds a lot of truth when it comes to weight lifting. If your shoulder hurts when you bench press, whether it be the barbell or dumbbells, then don't do that.

This seems pretty obvious to me. But then, I've ignored this advice on the tennis court, so who am I to judge?

(Got tendinitis in my left elbow a few times.)

You got WHAT? Why, that's practically tennis elbow!

I actually think years of picking up dumbbells and getting them into proper position to lift contributed big time to me developing TE when I started playing tennis regularly.


If you stay fit, eat right, and have some luck, you shouldn't need T replacement therapy for awhile. :) Oh, and by 'luck', you know what I mean? ;)

Maybe I'll stay somewhat fit, but I'll probably never eat right.

I actually don't know what you mean by have some "luck". Context suggests some sort of sexual connotation, but I can't put it all together.:confused:

heycal
08-27-2008, 08:01 PM
I know you hardcore lifters frown on most machines compared to BB's and DB's, but what do you think of this "Super Squat" machine that my gym has? Is it a safe and semi-reasonably effective substitution for free weight squats for us non-hard core types? (You can stand forwards or backwards in this one.)

http://i34.tinypic.com/2gt66mu.jpg

chess9
08-28-2008, 02:45 AM
Free squatting has some of the same advantages of using dumbbells, but the Smith Machine and their ilk are safer alternatives. Just do it!

-Robert

heycal
08-28-2008, 07:15 AM
Free squatting has some of the same advantages of using dumbbells, but the Smith Machine and their ilk are safer alternatives. Just do it!

-Robert

But what of the machine I pointed out? What do we think of that one?

tbini87
08-28-2008, 08:12 AM
i could put up 185 when i was weighing 155 as a senior in high school. haven't done too much power lifting or maxing since...

Say Chi Sin Lo
08-28-2008, 09:00 AM
I was told by my PT that when benching (bar or bells), I shouldn't bring my elbows behind my back. The proper form is to lower my arms so that my bent elbows line up with my back, and then explode upward.

Any comments on that?

I see a lot of people bouncing the bar off their chest or, ever so slightly lower the bar and call that a rep.

SlapShot
08-28-2008, 09:11 AM
My best bench was a 245 max in college, with a bodyweight of 175. Now, I'm closer to 180 and am doing reps at 145-150. I have a tender shoulder, so I've cut the barbell bench and have gone to dumbell bench with 45-50 lb weights. Anything more, and I'm sore in my right shoulder.

I agree 100% that lifting properly is very safe for most people, and actually can help to prevent injury. It's when you try and lift too heavy or too often than you can injure yourself.

dcottrill
08-28-2008, 09:52 AM
I don't know what percentile I'm in lifting wise and would like to know. Do you have a cite for that 98th percentile?

Actually, I just pulled the 98th percentile figure out of the air. But, from personal observation at the gym, at the tennis courts, and on the street, I'd be willing to bet that only a very small percentage of men over the age of 60 can bench press their own body weight. There are exceptions, of course, but I suspect that they are few and far between. Anyway, your question prompted me to do some research.

http://www.lifestyleschanges.com/onerep.html


So, if an 89% of body weight one max rep bench press gets a 60+ year old into the 90th percentile, I bet your 106% (180 bench divided by 170 body weight) for reps would get you close to the 98th percentile.

As I said before, pretty impressive.

Rickson
08-28-2008, 10:33 AM
I've done pretty close to double my bodyweight. I was in the 180s with a 345 lb. flat bench press. All the other guys in the gym who could press 3 plates and up were all over 200 lbs..

cncretecwbo
08-28-2008, 11:21 AM
Very smart not letting the bar go past parallel. When you lift you should have a 90 degree bend at your elbow to your forearm and a 90 degree from your elbow to your side of your body at the bottom of the lift.


can you back that up? as long as it feels fine, id say go all the way. your bench wont be as great, but the overall strength an flexibility will be as good or better imo

Free squatting has some of the same advantages of using dumbbells, but the Smith Machine and their ilk are safer alternatives. Just do it!

-Robert

whys that?

Sleepstream
08-28-2008, 11:25 AM
I avoid the barbell bench press. It aggravates my shoulders more than any other exercise.

Upright rows, dips, anything else that supposedly is bad for the shoulders, all of those are fine. I haven't tried to figure out why, but it's not an important exercise to me, so I'm fine to exclude it from my routine.

dcottrill
08-28-2008, 12:16 PM
I've done pretty close to double my bodyweight. I was in the 180s with a 345 lb. flat bench press. All the other guys in the gym who could press 3 plates and up were all over 200 lbs..

If you were benching 2x your body weight, then you were in a pretty elite group. Probably a combination of good genetics and really hard work.

This reminds me...I was at the Arnold Classic a couple of years ago, and while strolling through the trade show, came across a display where you could sign a waiver and take a crack at benching 225 pounds. There was this one guy who must have cranked out 20 or 25 reps. But, he was about 5' 6" tall and had the shortest arms I have ever seen. When he benched, the bar probably didn't move more than six inches. Not to take anything away from the guy, 'cause I couldn't bench 225 once, let alone 25 times. Still, I don't know if I could call the guy an athlete. Later, I saw him walking past the Marines booth. They had a pull-up bar and were giving guys the chance to crank out a few reps. Our bench pressing friend wouldn't go near it. I bet watching him try to do pull-ups would have been ugly.

Anyway, I think the bench press is one (but only one) good measure of an athlete's strength. Personally, I'd rather be a good decathlete than hold the world bench pressing record. But...to each his own. :)

Rickson
08-28-2008, 12:41 PM
It sounds like the guy was doing partial reps. Maybe his partial reps gave him the illusion of having super short arms.

FastFreddy
08-28-2008, 01:47 PM
In the old days when you benched you had to touch your chest and wreck your shoulder if you had long arms. If you look at top bench press guys thay have a barrel chest and short arms they never break parallel the bar moves maybe 5-8 inches tops. When you go past parallel your shoulder is in its weakest position now you have to change the direction with the bar and that when most guys hurt their shoulder. I even saw a big guy rip his pec off pretty gross with only 275 going deep not worth the risk. I hear guys say they go for the stretch I wouldn't like to stretch my muscles and tedons with all that weight, stratch before and after you workout.
I been a trainer and strength coach for the past 17 years. I learned that from many years os school and experience and my own lifting.

chess9
08-28-2008, 01:57 PM
Actually, I just pulled the 98th percentile figure out of the air. But, from personal observation at the gym, at the tennis courts, and on the street, I'd be willing to bet that only a very small percentage of men over the age of 60 can bench press their own body weight. There are exceptions, of course, but I suspect that they are few and far between. Anyway, your question prompted me to do some research.

http://www.lifestyleschanges.com/onerep.html


So, if an 89% of body weight one max rep bench press gets a 60+ year old into the 90th percentile, I bet your 106% (180 bench divided by 170 body weight) for reps would get you close to the 98th percentile.

As I said before, pretty impressive.

Thanks for that site! I've bookmarked it. I suspect two MAIN reasons for such substantial dropoffs with age:

1. Functional decline, such as less lifting, and less activity. I see this all the time and can agree with you that most guys over 60 have trouble taking out the garbage! It's just too sad. There is no need to get so fat and out of shape. It ISN'T inevitable that you have to lose so much in your 50's and 60's. You will lose a small amount even if you train hard, but Bill Phillips is still pushing some heavy iron after all these years.

2. Lowered testosterone due to 1 above, poor diet, and age.

Something comparable is running. Before my back injury I was taking my youngest brother out on training runs. I would be jogging along at an easy 10 mpm pace and he would be red faced, huffing and puffing and having a near death experience. He's almost 10 years younger than me and only weighs about 175. I see this sort of thing on the tennis court all the time, which is why so few older guys play singles. At triathlons it's a very similar situation. The average sprint triathlon might get 5 guys over the age of 65 out for the race, whereas the 30-35 age group has 30-50 guys.

Anyway, coming back to benching, the guys who've been doing it for a long time, have stayed healthy and fit, are going to bench a lot more than your average guy. Frankly I don't think I know any other 60 year old tennis players who could bench over 150. At least not at my courts. Heck, I can't get but a couple of them to go to the gym with me. I took one guy and he wouldn't go back. "Too hard." LOL. And I started him on almost nothing. Just too sad. It's like they've had a sex change by that age.

-Robert

chess9
08-28-2008, 02:01 PM
I've done pretty close to double my bodyweight. I was in the 180s with a 345 lb. flat bench press. All the other guys in the gym who could press 3 plates and up were all over 200 lbs..

You are an animal. :) How old are you? How much do you bench now?

I may have benched 280 when I was younger, but frankly I tossed all my old power lifting notebooks, so I don't recall. I never was much of a bencher.


-Robert

chess9
08-28-2008, 02:05 PM
In the old days when you benched you had to touch your chest and wreck your shoulder if you had long arms. If you look at top bench press guys thay have a barrel chest and short arms they never break parallel the bar moves maybe 5-8 inches tops. When you go past parallel your shoulder is in its weakest position now you have to change the direction with the bar and that when most guys hurt their shoulder. I even saw a big guy rip his pec off pretty gross with only 275 going deep not worth the risk. I hear guys say they go for the stretch I wouldn't like to stretch my muscles and tedons with all that weight, stratch before and after you workout.
I been a trainer and strength coach for the past 17 years. I learned that from many years os school and experience and my own lifting.

Which is why I do dips, and rarely bench more than 170 to 180. Why take the risk at my age? It does nothing for my tennis or my swimming. I don't know why any tennis player should be benching their bodyweight or more very often. Can anyone describe the physiological benefit of doing it?

-Robert

power_play21
08-28-2008, 02:23 PM
Which is why I do dips, and rarely bench more than 170 to 180. Why take the risk at my age? It does nothing for my tennis or my swimming. I don't know why any tennis player should be benching their bodyweight or more very often. Can anyone describe the physiological benefit of doing it?

-Robert

strengthen quick twich fibers. a lot of weight, few repetitions. also helps to build muscle mass if you're under-muscled for any reason. not needed however, tennis players should benefit more from aerobic training, practicing and playing, and specific exercises to help maintain top performance, such as strenghening rotator cuff muscles, which requires almost no weight.

so yea, physiological benefits are minimal. the chances of getting hurt doing this stuff is high. usually reserved for some football players (need the muscle), bodybuilders (need the appearance) or people taking steroids.

Rickson
08-28-2008, 02:51 PM
Robert, I'm not a young man anymore, but I can still bench around 275 and that's without having benched in a long time. I know this because even after a 2 year complete layoff from the weights, I was able to bench 225 on my first attempt. I wasn't doing anything at all on my comeback trail, but these days, I do dips and pullups at a BW of around 191. 315 isn't out of the question if I practiced benching again for a few weeks. The last time I got back to 315 on the bench, it took me 3 and 1/2 weeks.

chess9
08-28-2008, 04:11 PM
strengthen quick twich fibers. a lot of weight, few repetitions. also helps to build muscle mass if you're under-muscled for any reason. not needed however, tennis players should benefit more from aerobic training, practicing and playing, and specific exercises to help maintain top performance, such as strenghening rotator cuff muscles, which requires almost no weight.

so yea, physiological benefits are minimal. the chances of getting hurt doing this stuff is high. usually reserved for some football players (need the muscle), bodybuilders (need the appearance) or people taking steroids.

Great points!

-Robert

chrisdaniel
08-29-2008, 01:42 AM
Im 26, I weigh about 120 and Im 5 foot 6. I bench about 190 max. But I usually just do 3 sets of ten with about 140.

dcottrill
08-29-2008, 05:37 AM
Im 26, I weigh about 120 and Im 5 foot 6. I bench about 190 max. But I usually just do 3 sets of ten with about 140.

Here is an interesting site that claims to predict what your one rep max would be from doing reps with a lighter weight. Using your example, 10 reps at 140 pounds would equal a 187 pound one rep max. So, it would seem to be fairly accurate.

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html

chess9
08-29-2008, 06:14 AM
Here's another one, and it's close too.
http://www.criticalbench.com/chart.htm

-Robert

Nellie
08-29-2008, 06:31 AM
Off Topic, but I don't do bench presses anymore because I consider the bench press to be a vanity excercise - you do it to show off at the gym. As a former college football player, I have done a lot of benching (never did a mix, but I did sets of 10 at 315 lbs). There are rare moments in life where you need to press. If you want to improve your health, fitness, and tennis, work on your hips and core. These days, I do a lot of olympic lifts - clean and jerk/ snatch because I work and don't have time to lift more than 30 minutes, a couple times per week, and these excercises help me work arms, kegs, and core with a single excercise.

basil J
08-29-2008, 07:17 AM
I used to do an annual strength test every 4th of july weekend. My personal best was at the age of 39. I benched 225 for 18 reps, squatted 225 for 30 reps, 14 wide pull ups and ran 3 miles in 21 minutes at a body weight of 205#. Now at 47, I only do dumbell presses and never go over 70# for chest work, never go over 40# for overhead presses and focus primarily on core work keeping my lower back, shoulders, abs and achilles tendons healthly. I just had my annual physical and my doctor told me that he wished that his 30 year olds kept their fitness up as well as I do. I now do weights twice a week for1 hour, cardio sprint work twice a week and try to squeeze in tennis twice a week. It's not easy to find the time, but let me tell you, when I am out on the court playing singles against 30 year olds and they are the ones huffing and puffing, it makes it all worth it!

FastFreddy
08-29-2008, 08:39 AM
If you play tennis you don't have to do a bench press its not a sport specific exerise for tennis. It's just a fun exerise to do and to compare your strength to your friends. The first thing someone in the gym will ask you is how much you bench then squat?For tennis players I would have them do some rear delt work, flys, overhead shoulder press,upper traps, and for the legs legpress or squat depending which one you like, step ups, lunges, clean and press and deadlifts. And mix in some 100- 200 meter sprints and some cycling and jumprope.

r2473
08-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Here are some standards. This may help you determine how you are doing. I am pretty much an "intermediate" on all the exercises. My goal is to be "advanced" in about 18 months.

http://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

chess9
08-29-2008, 12:50 PM
Here are some standards. This may help you determine how you are doing. I am pretty much an "intermediate" on all the exercises. My goal is to be "advanced" in about 18 months.

http://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Those are good, though they aren't age adjusted. :( On the other hand, once you get married, have kids, a job, a mortgage, and two car payments your bench press numbers look inconsequential. ;)

After all the excitement of this thread I decided to do a serious bench set today at the gym. I got on the Smith Machine (yeah, that's a little cheating) with some high school kids. I warmed up first on the Vertical Press Machine, hitting 170 x 12 at the third set. Then I benched with the 'boys' on the Smith Machine. One set at 200 x 4, then one attempted set at 215, which resulted in failure. I re-set after about 5 minutes of rest and cranked out two reps at 215. I thought for sure I was going to blow out my 'iffy' right shoulder on the third rep attempt, but I quickly quit on it. :) Rested, with a more abbreviated warmup-I did a 5 set warmup-I might hit 225.

Not bad though for an old skinny guy. I hope my Team Tennis team doesn't make me play #1 doubles tomorrow! ;) I'm sore already....

-Robert

onehandbh
08-29-2008, 02:20 PM
Those are good, though they aren't age adjusted. :( On the other hand, once you get married, have kids, a job, a mortgage, and two car payments your bench press numbers look inconsequential. ;)

After all the excitement of this thread I decided to do a serious bench set today at the gym. I got on the Smith Machine (yeah, that's a little cheating) with some high school kids. I warmed up first on the Vertical Press Machine, hitting 170 x 12 at the third set. Then I benched with the 'boys' on the Smith Machine. One set at 200 x 4, then one attempted set at 215, which resulted in failure. I re-set after about 5 minutes of rest and cranked out two reps at 215. I thought for sure I was going to blow out my 'iffy' right shoulder on the third rep attempt, but I quickly quit on it. :) Rested, with a more abbreviated warmup-I did a 5 set warmup-I might hit 225.

Not bad though for an old skinny guy. I hope my Team Tennis team doesn't make me play #1 doubles tomorrow! ;) I'm sore already....

-Robert

Wow, that's impressive for a guy your age, even if it is on a smith
machine.

Rickson
08-29-2008, 02:24 PM
Robert is in phenomenal shape. Robert's secret to being in good shape is that he's thin. My grandma passed away at 97 and she stayed thin most of her life. Keep the weight down when you're up in age. It'll keep you alive longer and that's a fact.

onehandbh
08-29-2008, 06:54 PM
Robert is in phenomenal shape. Robert's secret to being in good shape is that he's thin. My grandma passed away at 97 and she stayed thin most of her life. Keep the weight down when you're up in age. It'll keep you alive longer and that's a fact.

The average US male (20 - 74) in...
1960: 5' 8", 166 lbs.
2002: 5' 9.5", 191 lbs.

For women:
1960: 5' 3", 140 lbs.
2002: 5' 4", 164 lbs.

We're getting fatter... unless the extra 25 lbs are pure muscle or increase
in bone density.

heycal
08-29-2008, 07:36 PM
Rickson and others: What do you think of this super squat machine my gym has, in terms of effectiveness and safety compared to traditonal free weight squats for those of us who are not hard core and just want to build a little strength and muscle mass?



http://i34.tinypic.com/2gt66mu.jpg

Rickson
08-29-2008, 07:52 PM
That looks like a hack squat. It's ok I suppose, but nothing beats the real thing for glutes and quads. Remember to position the bar along your traps on real squats and not on your neck, that's if you decide to do real squatsf.

heycal
08-29-2008, 08:12 PM
That looks like a hack squat. It's ok I suppose, but nothing beats the real thing for glutes and quads. Remember to position the bar along your traps on real squats and not on your neck, that's if you decide to do real squatsf.

I'll play around with both and see which feels best for me. The trainer who showed me around was dismissive of several of the machines in the gym and preferred free weights, as most serious guys do, but one of the machines he liked was this 'super squat' machine and said he uses it himself.

heycal
08-29-2008, 08:13 PM
I've already forgotten: are squats good for hamstrings too, or it really a quad and glutes exercise?

onehandbh
08-29-2008, 10:36 PM
^^^ I feel it in my hamstrings if I go to where my thighs are at least
parallel to the ground. A little less if I don't go as far down.

My max is 650, at weight of 170 and a height of 4'3". Only pressed it a half
inch due to my short arms.
j/k. A few years ago I tried a max and did 230 or 235. I probably could do
much less now. I only go to the gym about once a week now b/c I'm
trying to play more tennis and do yoga instead with my free time. Out of
habit, there are certain things I always do though, like, I always walk up
stairways two steps at a time and sometimes I run up them 2 at a time.
I used to bound up 3 at a time but I stopped b/c I figured it was just matter of
time b4 I bit it one day and it would probably end badly...

chess9
08-30-2008, 03:36 AM
^^^ I feel it in my hamstrings if I go to where my thighs are at least
parallel to the ground. A little less if I don't go as far down.

My max is 650, at weight of 170 and a height of 4'3". Only pressed it a half
inch due to my short arms.
j/k. A few years ago I tried a max and did 230 or 235. I probably could do
much less now. I only go to the gym about once a week now b/c I'm
trying to play more tennis and do yoga instead with my free time. Out of
habit, there are certain things I always do though, like, I always walk up
stairways two steps at a time and sometimes I run up them 2 at a time.
I used to bound up 3 at a time but I stopped b/c I figured it was just matter of
time b4 I bit it one day and it would probably end badly...

LOL! This reminds me of the Olympic Sprint Cyclist from the 1950's who didn't have much time to train because he was a full-time plumber in Chicago. So, he would carry his 50 pound tool box up the stairs of the high rise buildings instead of taking the elevators. :) He won the gold.

-Robert

Trasher
08-30-2008, 09:37 PM
Remember the old doctor joke? Doc, it hurts when I do this and doc says, don't do that. Well that old joke holds a lot of truth when it comes to weight lifting. If your shoulder hurts when you bench press, whether it be the barbell or dumbbells, then don't do that. You can either stay away from that particular exercise until you heal properly or you can go lighter. I choose to do the latter so I find a weight that gives me zero pain and I'm off to the races. Pain is an indicator of something not being right, not a sign that you should fight through it. I used the no pain on weights strategy when my right shoulder was injured from serving and in a few weeks, I was dumbbell pressing at almost 100% pain free. I was using very light dumbbells on shoulder presses (25 lbs.), which is a far cry from my normal 65-80 lb. DB shoulder presses, but any dumbbell over 30 would cause this pinch in my right shoulder. Remember, lighten the load until you feel no pain at all or stay away from the exercise altogether.

Hey, I was curious about this one thing. Say I have a pain in my shoulder or on any other part in my arms, but only when I do a specific motion or stretch it/move it in a certain way (close my arms like showing off my biceps muscles then or something like that), so if I have that pain, but then when I do dips, chinups or pullups, if it doesn't bother me there, should I go ahead and do the exercise? Would it be safe then.

Because right now I feel slight pains/discomforts when I close my arm like I said, and some pain on my shoulder, but if I do dips or any of the other exercises I mentioned, I don't feel anything and it doesn't bother me at all. What do you think?

Rickson
08-31-2008, 04:49 AM
That's a tough call, Trash. Sometimes you do more harm than good by doing certain exercises. You definitely put yourself at risk of further injury when you feel pain during an exercise so that's something you don't want to do. Personally, I don't skip the exercise altogether, I simply lower the weight until I feel no pain as I mentioned in the previous post. As a general rule, and remember it's only a general rule, you can do exercises that cause you no discomfort.

chess9
08-31-2008, 05:10 AM
Don't listen to Rickson! If an exercise isn't causing pain, you haven't done enough of them! Throw in an extra 100 reps! Raise the weight an extra 200 lbs. With any luck, injury will quickly follow.

We can't have anyone posting here who isn't injured from overdoing it.
:)

-Robert

Rickson
08-31-2008, 05:37 AM
You know what they say: Those who don't listen to Rickson, hurt themselves.

heycal
08-31-2008, 06:01 AM
You know what they say: Those who don't listen to Rickson, hurt themselves.

I didn't listen to Rickson who diagnosed my mild groin strain as a "sports hernia" six months ago.:) Might have missed the whole summer of groin-pain free tennis if I had.

chess9
08-31-2008, 06:19 AM
I didn't listen to Rickson who diagnosed my mild groin strain as a "sports hernia" six months ago.:) Might have missed the whole summer of groin-pain free tennis if I had.

Yes, those internet medical diagnoses are perfect if you are looking for in injury upgrade-say, a strain to tear. :)

Just say no to Rickson. ;)

-Robert

Rickson
08-31-2008, 06:25 AM
What's this? Gang up on Rickson day?

chess9
08-31-2008, 07:20 AM
What's this? Gang up on Rickson day?

Just kidding, of course. I'm one of your fans.

-Robert

heycal
08-31-2008, 08:57 AM
As am I.

As for Robert's point, yes, the internet and this forum are a great place for having others label low back pain as a slipped disk that will leave you crippled if you play another game of tennis, and other such dramatic upgrades.

heycal
08-31-2008, 11:35 AM
Okay Rickson and others: I'm 45 years old, 5'10", 165. I have a little flab/love handles, but also a somewhat athletic phsyique due to past gym memberships and for the last ten years doing regular but not super strenuous dumbbells workouts along with chins and push ups at home. I'd like to change things up now, be a little more consistent and focused, and build some addditonal muscle mass for looks and to burn more fat. My main goal is vanity, looking a little bit more fit and athletic so I can continue chasing young girls.

In addition to doing some aerobics here and there, I'd like to hit the gym every 3 or 4 days for no more than 30 minutes. Keep it simple, short, and manageable.

So, can I achieve some decent gains on top of my base level of muscle mass by doing the following:

UPPER BODY

2 sets chest press
2 sets shoulder press
2 sets arm curl
2 sets tricep extension
2 sets seated row
2 sets chins

Virtually of these will be done on machines, not free weights. I've had ten years of dumbbells, so I'd like to try machines for a change of pace. (Don't worry, I'll come back to free weights down the road a bit.)

LOWER

2 set "super squat" squat machine
2 sets incline leg press
4 sets calf machines

Plus some abs and lower back stuff.

Any glaring omissions from this workout that will prevent me from hitting all muscles groups and reaching my goals? Any needless redundancies?

I await comments. Thanks.

snoopy
08-31-2008, 02:32 PM
Nothing beats that V look. So I'd focus on building that back. Chin ups, rows, etc. Squats for building a firm butt, nice quads, and also abs. Throw in some sprints b/c they are great for getting you cut up. I'm sure you know but I will add it any way, you have to eat right too.

Rickson
08-31-2008, 09:08 PM
Snoopy really appreciates a good physique.

heycal
08-31-2008, 09:49 PM
So will routine go a ways towards making Snoopy happy?

Rickson
08-31-2008, 09:49 PM
I think a firm butt would make him happier.

heycal
08-31-2008, 10:52 PM
Fair enough.

Now about what my routine outlined in post 105, Rickson? You usually are good for an opinion about such things.

TENNIS_IS_FUN
08-31-2008, 11:14 PM
Bench:

135 at 160

herosol
08-31-2008, 11:36 PM
my mom won't let me go to the gym. :[

chess9
09-01-2008, 05:24 AM
Okay Rickson and others: I'm 45 years old, 5'10", 165. I have a little flab/love handles, but also a somewhat athletic phsyique due to past gym memberships and for the last ten years doing regular but not super strenuous dumbbells workouts along with chins and push ups at home. I'd like to change things up now, be a little more consistent and focused, and build some addditonal muscle mass for looks and to burn more fat. My main goal is vanity, looking a little bit more fit and athletic so I can continue chasing young girls.

In addition to doing some aerobics here and there, I'd like to hit the gym every 3 or 4 days for no more than 30 minutes. Keep it simple, short, and manageable.

So, can I achieve some decent gains on top of my base level of muscle mass by doing the following:

UPPER BODY

2 sets chest press
2 sets shoulder press
2 sets arm curl
2 sets tricep extension
2 sets seated row
2 sets chins

Virtually of these will be done on machines, not free weights. I've had ten years of dumbbells, so I'd like to try machines for a change of pace. (Don't worry, I'll come back to free weights down the road a bit.)

LOWER

2 set "super squat" squat machine
2 sets incline leg press
4 sets calf machines

Plus some abs and lower back stuff.

Any glaring omissions from this workout that will prevent me from hitting all muscles groups and reaching my goals? Any needless redundancies?

I await comments. Thanks.

Just a couple of comments:

1. The above looks like a good start, assuming you are not a noobie, but at least an intermediate.
2. After about a month of the above, start looking on the web for other exercises to do, like lunges, one legged squats, hanging leg lifts, floor sweepers, and many more. Your body needs variation as it will get accustomed to your workout routine. So, shake things up.
3. Be sure to have some rest built in, and I don't mean a rest DAY, I mean a week, say, or maybe two, where you don't lift at all. Also, get plenty of sleep every day. Oh, and don't lift heavy if you are feeling really sore or a bit down. Just go to the gym and do some very light work with the weights and maybe a light bike workout or swim.
4. Get your diet right! Being strong can't be done just with lifting because with the wrong diet you might get fat, injured, or sick and have to go back to square one. If you were to ask a top trainer for help, the first thing he's likely to ask you for is how many carbs, protein and fat, in grams, you eat per day. If you don't know, then you aren't training right!
5. Set realistic goals. You are still very young and could get quite strong with just some modest dedication, like two or three days per week of smart lifting.

EDIT: Something else. I'd do squats every workout for the first month. You should live and die on the squat rack for a month to push up your testosterone levels. Do the squats FIRST in your workout.

-Robert

chess9
09-01-2008, 05:26 AM
Bench:

135 at 160

Is that 1 RM? How tall are you and how old? Do you have some disability?

-Robert

chess9
09-01-2008, 05:29 AM
my mom won't let me go to the gym. :[

You can do a lot of stuff at home. Google is your friend. Also, your school has a weight room? Get in there, watch, wait, weight, and listen. :) It's not unlikely the wrestling coach, or one of the faculty will be in there, or, possibly an older student who is a studly know it all. ;)

Quit with the excuses! :) (If you'd said you were taking 5 AP classes I'd let you pass. ;) )

-Robert

Sleepstream
09-01-2008, 05:52 AM
You can do a lot of stuff at home. Google is your friend. Also, your school has a weight room? Get in there, watch, wait, weight, and listen. :) It's not unlikely the wrestling coach, or one of the faculty will be in there, or, possibly an older student who is a studly know it all. ;)

Quit with the excuses! :) (If you'd said you were taking 5 AP classes I'd let you pass. ;) )

-Robert

There are no excuses. I had 3 AP classes, worked 25 hours a week, and participated in several clubs, but I still exercised/lifted 5-6 times weekly.

chess9
09-01-2008, 06:13 AM
There are no excuses. I had 3 AP classes, worked 25 hours a week, and participated in several clubs, but I still exercised/lifted 5-6 times weekly.

That's impressive! I was just kidding, lad. :) My daughter had 4 AP classes and was killing herself without having a job (though she was a varsity swimmer), so that's a tough schedule you have.

-Robert

Sleepstream
09-01-2008, 06:22 AM
That's impressive! I was just kidding, lad. :) My daughter had 4 AP classes and was killing herself without having a job (though she was a varsity swimmer), so that's a tough schedule you have.

-Robert

That's what I had my senior year of high school, but now I'm just bumming around college with an easy schedule.

The difficulty of AP classes is exaggerated, unless I just managed to have good teachers.

heycal
09-01-2008, 09:22 AM
Just a couple of comments:

1. The above looks like a good start, assuming you are not a noobie, but at least an intermediate.
2. After about a month of the above, start looking on the web for other exercises to do, like lunges, one legged squats, hanging leg lifts, floor sweepers, and many more. Your body needs variation as it will get accustomed to your workout routine. So, shake things up.
3. Be sure to have some rest built in, and I don't mean a rest DAY, I mean a week, say, or maybe two, where you don't lift at all. Also, get plenty of sleep every day. Oh, and don't lift heavy if you are feeling really sore or a bit down. Just go to the gym and do some very light work with the weights and maybe a light bike workout or swim.
4. Get your diet right! Being strong can't be done just with lifting because with the wrong diet you might get fat, injured, or sick and have to go back to square one. If you were to ask a top trainer for help, the first thing he's likely to ask you for is how many carbs, protein and fat, in grams, you eat per day. If you don't know, then you aren't training right!
5. Set realistic goals. You are still very young and could get quite strong with just some modest dedication, like two or three days per week of smart lifting.

EDIT: Something else. I'd do squats every workout for the first month. You should live and die on the squat rack for a month to push up your testosterone levels. Do the squats FIRST in your workout.

-Robert

Thanks, Robert. And thanks for calling me "still very young". Haven't been called young in a while, and I'm liking the sound of it.

I'm not going to comment on diet, other than to say I live to eat rather than eat to live. If my gains and my health won't be as optimal because I like things like donuts and Coca Cola, so be it.

Why do squats first?

chess9
09-01-2008, 09:38 AM
Thanks, Robert. And thanks for calling me "still very young". Haven't been called young in a while, and I'm liking the sound of it.

I'm not going to comment on diet, other than to say I live to eat rather than eat to live. If my gains and my health won't be as optimal because I like things like donuts and Coca Cola, so be it.

Why do squats first?

Squats activate the largest muscles in your body-quads, glutes, hammys, blasting testosterone into your blood stream. Squats will make your biceps grow. They will make everything grow. ;) Just warn your wife. ;)

-Robert

heycal
09-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Squats activate the largest muscles in your body-quads, glutes, hammys, blasting testosterone into your blood stream. Squats will make your biceps grow. They will make everything grow. ;) Just warn your wife. ;)

I'm not married, Robert. Remember above I said I wanted to continuing chasing young girls? I'm guessing a wife wouldn't like that sort of thing...

Rickson
09-01-2008, 11:57 AM
Listen, you Anti-Ricksons, stop man loving each other and hit the gym! Robert, stop telling people your age! Cal, leave those young girls alone!

HornedWildebeast
09-01-2008, 03:39 PM
This is pretty embarrasing but I'm 6'2 150 and only bench 85. :( My upper body is extremely weak. Lower body is much stronger

10sfreak
09-01-2008, 07:49 PM
Rickson and others: What do you think of this super squat machine my gym has, in terms of effectiveness and safety compared to traditonal free weight squats for those of us who are not hard core and just want to build a little strength and muscle mass?
Actually, I don't think that's only for hack squats - it can be used for either hack or regular squats. If you face away from the machine, you'd use it for a hack squat. If you faced into the machine, it would closely mimic a regular squat.
Also heycal, to answer your question: yes, squats are good for your hamstrings as well as quads and glutes.

10sfreak
09-01-2008, 08:00 PM
Heycal, as for your routine you outlined before, since you're pressed for time, you could superset your calf work into your incline leg-press work. Do a set of leg presses, do a set of calf raises (while on the leg-press machine - note: you'll need to rotate the stop-pins back into place for safety)
Also, when doing your squat work, as suggested by chess9, be sure to rest no more than 60 seconds between sets. This will increase your testosterone and growth hormone levels, which will not only help you build muscle, but burn fat as well.

heycal
09-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Actually, I don't think that's only for hack squats - it can be used for either hack or regular squats. If you face away from the machine, you'd use it for a hack squat. If you faced into the machine, it would closely mimic a regular squat.
Also heycal, to answer your question: yes, squats are good for your hamstrings as well as quads and glutes.

Don't know much about hack squats, but that machine definitely feels like it works the body differently depending on whether you face in or out as you mention.

Heycal, as for your routine you outlined before, since you're pressed for time, you could superset your calf work into your incline leg-press work. Do a set of leg presses, do a set of calf raises (while on the leg-press machine - note: you'll need to rotate the stop-pins back into place for safety)
Also, when doing your squat work, as suggested by chess9, be sure to rest no more than 60 seconds between sets. This will increase your testosterone and growth hormone levels, which will not only help you build muscle, but burn fat as well.

Thanks for the tips. Good idea about about incoporating the calves into the leg press machine.

As for rest time between sets, doesn't longer rest enable you to recover your strength and lift more, and thus ultimately help build more muscle mass? It certainly feels to be the case, and I believe the trainer who showed me around the gym suggested a nice rest between sets, and to work heavy, if I wanted to build muscle.

FastFreddy
09-02-2008, 08:50 AM
Calf machines are are a waste of time they should be removed from the earth, calfs are pretty much gentetics. I seen huge ripped calf muscles at the gym and they don't even train them. My other juiced bodybuilding friends still can't get their calfs any bigger or change the shape. I never train my calfs or stretch out spend that time lifting or running or play tennis. Thats why Arnold got calf inplants to win bodybuilding shows.

They should also remove all stretching area in the gym. Who wants to see out of shape people doing abs on the floor and stretching out, when they should be lifting heavy weights and running on the treadmill. Forget all that walking on the treadmill(bs) if you want to get in shape look at the people in the gym who are in shape. They are running on the treadmill or lifting med to heavy weights.

heycal
09-02-2008, 09:15 AM
Calf machines are are a waste of time they should be removed from the earth.

I've torn both calves playing tennis. It's been recommended I strengthen them to prevent future tears. So I don't quite see machines that could help me do that as a plague upon the earth like you do.

onehandbh
09-02-2008, 09:24 AM
I've torn both calves playing tennis. It's been recommended I strengthen them to prevent future tears. So I don't quite see machines that could help me do that as a plague upon the earth like you do.

Yikes! both calves? How is your calf flexibility?
You can do calf work on steps/stairs using your bodyweight. Use one
hand to hold onto a wall/rail for balance. Once it becomes too easy using
both calves, switch to one leg at a time.

chess9
09-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Calf machines are are a waste of time they should be removed from the earth, calfs are pretty much gentetics. I seen huge ripped calf muscles at the gym and they don't even train them. My other juiced bodybuilding friends still can't get their calfs any bigger or change the shape. I never train my calfs or stretch out spend that time lifting or running or play tennis. Thats why Arnold got calf inplants to win bodybuilding shows.

They should also remove all stretching area in the gym. Who wants to see out of shape people doing abs on the floor and stretching out, when they should be lifting heavy weights and running on the treadmill. Forget all that walking on the treadmill(bs) if you want to get in shape look at the people in the gym who are in shape. They are running on the treadmill or lifting med to heavy weights.

I use the calf machine occasionally. It's not bad for strengthening calf muscles. I like calf raises with the Smith Machine better.

But, the reason I decided to not do bodybuilding in my late 20's (went into powerlifting) was because I discovered after about 6 months that my skinny legs were going NOWHERE. If I could build my calf muscles the way I can build biceps, back and pecs I'd be a monster! :) OK, I'd be Grendel's ugly step-child. ;)

-Robert

heycal
09-02-2008, 10:36 AM
Yikes! both calves? How is your calf flexibility?

Apparently not good! I tore the left in January 2006, the right in February 2007, both at the beginning of the matches in chilly weather. (Actually the first one happened in the pre-match rally.) Been doing body weight calf strengthening of the type you mention ever since, as well as trying to make sure the body is warmed up a bit before playing. No problems since then.

Rickson
09-02-2008, 10:44 AM
That can be said about any machine or free weight exercise. If you don't do calf raises, you won't die from a lack of exercise, but if you don't bench, squat, or curl you still won't die from a lack of exercise. People lift weights to build a small amount of muscle and to get stronger. You can choose to skip a vast number of exercises or do a lot of what some people perceive as pointless. It is a choice.

Tofuspeedstar
09-02-2008, 10:51 AM
I dunno, I believe it's around 265-270 at 2 reps.

Deadlift is 315 at 7 reps, 340 for 2 reps.

*shrug*

FastFreddy
09-02-2008, 11:27 AM
Rickson is right thats why I run 7.5 miles every day a 8:00 minute mile pace at a average hr of 146. I been running every day since January 2007. I started running back in 2003 I ran three times a week and then four times a week in 2004, five times a week in 2005, six times a week in 2006. I also done 3 marathons and my quickest time was 3:09 at 215lbs wearing a 3 liter cammelback(9lbs) You will never die because you have small guns or skinny chicken legs. Most people will suffer a stroke or heart attack in their lifetime.

You need to lift 85% 5 reps of your max to kept your joints tendons ligaments and bones strong. If you lift light weight for alot of reps you will not get strong and just wear out your joints. I still love to bench heavy since its a ego thing and gives me a nice 46inch chest. I am going see a sport med tennis doctor to get my shoulder checked out on Sept 9th. I will make sure I get an mri I got x-rays done last week when I saw my reg doc. X-rays are a waste of time since I know its my tendon silding on the bone. I am still lifting 285 for 15 reps just doing 3 sets. Still doing back ex machine, lat pulldowns to the front overhand grip, and shoulder press, rear delt and fly machine (bodymaster). For legs leg press, seated upright leg curl and leg ex machine. for abs I do the swiss ball at home with my shoulder pt.

nCode747
09-02-2008, 01:28 PM
like 100 or somthing i weigh 135lbs

heycal
09-02-2008, 03:06 PM
I still love to bench heavy since its a ego thing and gives me a nice 46inch chest. I am going see a sport med tennis doctor to get my shoulder checked out on Sept 9th.

Think there could be a link between the latter sentence and the former?

FastFreddy
09-02-2008, 06:23 PM
Nah, I tore up my right shoulder from impact from hockey. Its called not wearing your sholder pads in a light practice but I got carried away and checked the smallest guy on my team with 5 mins left in practice and torn it off the bone 4cm by 6cm.The year before I broke my team mates shoulder in practice we both were not wearing our pads pretty dumb. I also torn up my left shoulder 2cm by 3cm tear with that crapy clay court tennis hitting 25 ball rallies over your shoulder. Sure clay court is softer on your knees but hell on your shoulder. I can't image using poly on clay you will rip your arm right off the bone and then sew it back on.

10sfreak
09-04-2008, 08:59 PM
Don't know much about hack squats, but that machine definitely feels like it works the body differently depending on whether you face in or out as you mention.



Thanks for the tips. Good idea about about incoporating the calves into the leg press machine.

As for rest time between sets, doesn't longer rest enable you to recover your strength and lift more, and thus ultimately help build more muscle mass? It certainly feels to be the case, and I believe the trainer who showed me around the gym suggested a nice rest between sets, and to work heavy, if I wanted to build muscle.
It depends on what your goals are. If building muscle is your primary goal, then you'll want to minimize the rest between sets. As I posted earlier, this will maximize your GH/testosterone surge post-workout. Obviously, you won't be able to use as much weight, but this will build muscle and burn fat for hours after your workout. On the other hand, if pure strength is your primary goal, then you'll want to lift a higher percentage of your 1-rep max, and rest 3-5 minutes between sets. This will build your muscles to a more limited extent, but your strength will go up more. Hope this helps.

Hot Sauce
09-04-2008, 09:18 PM
Can anyone confirm the tips this guy uses in this bench press video? (Slight back arch, etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsr1-xcXFL8

chess9
09-05-2008, 03:50 AM
Can anyone confirm the tips this guy uses in this bench press video? (Slight back arch, etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsr1-xcXFL8

I prefer the instruction to "retract the scapulas", but for the internet that's probably an effective teaching technique. Notice that by arching your back slightly, your chest rises a bit and your scapulas come together. That action engages the pecs much more effectively during the bench press.

The sort of arching of the back that is bad, and that you often see in high school gyms, is a very high lifting at the belly button and the feet often go up on the toes. Good way to really screw up your back. Notice this guy is saying a very slight arch. DO NOT OVERDO THE ARCHING.

-Robert

FastFreddy
09-05-2008, 09:11 AM
Got my x-ray report back from the radiologist this is what the report said. The humeral head is positioned over the glenoid without joint space narrowing or acute bone abnormality. Hypertrophic changes are present of the distal clavicle at the acromioclavicular joint. No periarticular calcifications or evidence of os acromiale. I think what the problem is the bone on the distal clavicle has regrown. Going to the sport med tennis Doctor on the Sept 9th for a mri. No more benching for now just leg press, leg ex, seated leg curl, back ex, shoulder press, lat pull down and my pt for my shoulder.

Ultra2HolyGrail
09-06-2008, 01:00 AM
I wonder how much Federer could bench.

Ultra2HolyGrail
09-06-2008, 01:13 AM
Edit: I found these records by age. 303 lbs for a 165 lb male, age 65! :) http://www.usapowerlifting.com/records/american/men-benchpress.htm

-Robert



Wow. 402lbs age 70-74.

rum02
09-06-2008, 01:22 AM
It depends on what your goals are. If building muscle is your primary goal, then you'll want to minimize the rest between sets. As I posted earlier, this will maximize your GH/testosterone surge post-workout. Obviously, you won't be able to use as much weight, but this will build muscle and burn fat for hours after your workout. On the other hand, if pure strength is your primary goal, then you'll want to lift a higher percentage of your 1-rep max, and rest 3-5 minutes between sets. This will build your muscles to a more limited extent, but your strength will go up more. Hope this helps.

I've got a friend in the army who swears by a 1 minute recovery. I had a talk to the local gym owner and he didn't like the idea. he said it would be good for increasing your anaerobic threshold though.

heycal
09-08-2008, 11:25 PM
It depends on what your goals are. If building muscle is your primary goal, then you'll want to minimize the rest between sets. As I posted earlier, this will maximize your GH/testosterone surge post-workout. Obviously, you won't be able to use as much weight, but this will build muscle and burn fat for hours after your workout. On the other hand, if pure strength is your primary goal, then you'll want to lift a higher percentage of your 1-rep max, and rest 3-5 minutes between sets. This will build your muscles to a more limited extent, but your strength will go up more. Hope this helps.

Don't care about strength -- just building more muscle for appearance and fat burning. So if that means 1 minute rest, that's what I'll do. (Who would want to wait up to 5 minutes between sets anyway? You'd never get out of the gym.)

For some reason, my knees aren't loving either the the incline leg press machine or the squat machine even at very very light weight. Not sure why. I never had any problems with body weight squats in the past, or the leg press machine when I last used it 10 years ago. I feel some twinges as the weight comes down (the concentric phase?) during these exercises, not usually during the actual pushing up the weight part.

Which is more likely: these machine are bad for my knees, or I need a few weeks to get used to them? I tried placing my feet in slightly different positions, but it didn't make much of a difference.

Or maybe it's the tennis that has made my knees more vulenerable to aches from these machines, not any of these exercises themselves...

Zeppy
09-09-2008, 12:07 AM
Back in April, when I was still in high school, 200 lbs. I weighed approximately 132 lbs? I have a 200 lb t-shirt from my high school to prove it. Unfortunately, I was only able to do it once as after that day, AP testing started. So that knocked me off the weight room for 2+ weeks. When I got back, I only went back up to 190. At the time, dips for me was around 25-29 (Body weight). Pushups 50-55 (Body Weight).

Ever since the beginning of June, I have not been to a weight room and I doubt I can bench 160 lbs now.

superman1
09-09-2008, 08:21 PM
For some reason, my knees aren't loving either the the incline leg press machine or the squat machine even at very very light weight. Not sure why. I never had any problems with body weight squats in the past, or the leg press machine when I last used it 10 years ago. I feel some twinges as the weight comes down (the concentric phase?) during these exercises, not usually during the actual pushing up the weight part.

The Smith machine is crap. But if you're squatting and you're not going below parallel, it's for nothing. Warm up properly and stretch like crazy, especially the hamstrings, before squats. Then practice going down as deep as you can go.

As for the leg press, if there is another leg press machine that is horizontal, not inclined, use that. When you leg press, you're supposed to put your feet as high up on the thing as you can, shoulder width apart, and point your toes out at 30 degrees. Then go as deep as you can.

Always push with your heels.

FastFreddy
09-12-2008, 01:27 PM
The smith is a great machine if you know how to use it. It's great for squats no crappy spotter needed. I use it for bench it allows he to go heavy and not worry about ripping off my shoulder ( going to deep). If you are old school go free weight and find a power cage or squat rack. And bring a good friend who knows how to spot good luck finding one idiot in the gym. You will get hurt from a bad spot and dangerous too.

Don't forgot the knee wraps and weight belt.
I would never go below 90 degree. Hey if you want to kiss your hamstrings to your calfs its your knees not mine. I seen hardcore bodybuilders go deep then over the years of knee pain they don't go as deep and lighten the weight and go nice and controlled and slow.

I benched 285 for 15 reps 3 sets today shoulder is feeling much better. Maybe no more two hand backhands and just hit the one hand slice and my one hand topspin sidespin. Doing my shoulder pt everyday at the gym on the cables. I am still going to get my mri at the end of the month just to see if I have a small tear in my cuff.

zacinnc78
09-13-2008, 09:55 AM
are weighted lunges as good as squats?(for tennis)

FastFreddy
09-13-2008, 02:09 PM
I like lunges, stepups, leg press, dead lifts, clean and press for tennis not a big fan of squats. Some people like me aren't built for squats so I do leg press instead.

Rickson
09-13-2008, 04:35 PM
The concentric contraction of a squat takes place when you're pushing up, not when you're lowering the weight. The lowering part is called eccentric contraction, pronounced eeh-centric, not ex-centric.

Bud
09-13-2008, 04:50 PM
dips kill your shoulders, dont do them

They also place too much stress on you joints if the upper arm/forearm angle is less than 90 degrees (at bottom of dip).

The same goes with squats (90 degrees minimum between lower/upper leg)

cncretecwbo
09-17-2008, 04:37 PM
The same goes with squats (90 degrees minimum between lower/upper leg)

not true at all, tell that to an olympic lifter

heycal
09-17-2008, 04:48 PM
not true at all, tell that to an olympic lifter

In the face of an argument about how low one can safely go on squats, I'm definitely going to err on the side of caution and listen to the people who say don't go lower than parallel.

cncretecwbo
09-17-2008, 06:37 PM
In the face of an argument about how low one can safely go on squats, I'm definitely going to err on the side of caution and listen to the people who say don't go lower than parallel.

explain to me how going lower than parallel can be more damaging than parallel.

also, the post i responded to said 90 degress, which is actually above parallel. a partial squat (above parallel) can be done with more weight, and loads the knee more than a full squat. so you are A) putting more pressure on the knees and B) adding more weight to a motion that already loads the knees.

heycal
09-18-2008, 12:27 AM
explain to me how going lower than parallel can be more damaging than parallel.

also, the post i responded to said 90 degress, which is actually above parallel. a partial squat (above parallel) can be done with more weight, and loads the knee more than a full squat. so you are A) putting more pressure on the knees and B) adding more weight to a motion that already loads the knees.

I pretty much said I don't know what the truth is, so I can't very well explain it. I'm sure others here will probably do so soon enough.

Until that time, I can only go with my gut instinct on this one, which stems from common sense exercise principles: the less extreme way of doing any activity is usually going to be the safer way.

cncretecwbo
09-18-2008, 08:09 AM
I pretty much said I don't know what the truth is, so I can't very well explain it. I'm sure others here will probably do so soon enough.

Until that time, I can only go with my gut instinct on this one, which stems from common sense exercise principles: the less extreme way of doing any activity is usually going to be the safer way.

the problem is, though, that a half-squat and a full squat involve different points where you switch from eccentric to concentric. one (that half squat) places more load on the knees at this point.

heycal
09-18-2008, 08:16 AM
the problem is, though, that a half-squat and a full squat involve different points where you switch from eccentric to concentric. one (that half squat) places more load on the knees at this point.

Hey, if you can get a consensus that agrees with you about this, I'll reconsider. But until then, I'll err on what appears to be the more cautious side.

cncretecwbo
09-19-2008, 11:21 AM
Hey, if you can get a consensus that agrees with you about this, I'll reconsider. But until then, I'll err on what appears to be the more cautious side.

what if what appears to be the more cautious side is more likely to harm you? I personally dont care what you do, thats your choice.

a side note: 1/4 squats with medium or light weights are great for athletic ability since they mimic natural movement more, who squat atg before jumping? the problem is that people get greedy and hurt themselves with 1/4 squats.

heycal
09-19-2008, 12:50 PM
what if what appears to be the more cautious side is more likely to harm you?

In the face of conflicing advice, that's a risk I have to take, isn't?

Also, didn't a bunch of people in this thread hotly disagree with you that it's good to go low on squats?

So what am I to do? Since the answer is unclear, and I could be wrong one way or the other, I will err on the side that seems safer to me, which is the less extreme range of motion, and which is consistent with basic principles of moderation and caution.

Someone else weigh in here, please. Let's get some other opinions, folks!

onehandbh
09-19-2008, 03:39 PM
I think full squats are safe as long as you have enough hamstring and
glute flexibility so that you back doesn't round as you descend.
It's a very natural position. Babies do it and people in many parts of the
world still descend into full squats all the time during waste evacuation.
They ascend with less weight than they descended with though...

heycal
09-19-2008, 03:48 PM
I think full squats are safe as long as you have enough hamstring and
glute flexibility so that you back doesn't round as you descend.
It's a very natural position. Babies do it and people in many parts of the
world still descend into full squats all the time during waste evacuation.
They ascend with less weight than they descended with though...

Yes, but is it safer than not going fully as the other poster alleges?

onehandbh
09-19-2008, 05:20 PM
Yes, but is it safer than not going fully as the other poster alleges?

In the big picture and in the long run, it might be.
Imagine this scenario:

1) You only do partial squats
2) You start off with a modest weight and over time build up to a larger weight.

So far so good, right? Well, now imagine these two scenarios:

1) you are squatting and for some reason your leg feels more fatigued you
legs give out or you are unable to ascend and as a result you keep
descending instead and go deeper than you normally do. You haven't
worked this range of motion so it is possible that you will have little
strength or even flexibility here and you could end up rapidly descending
and injuring yourself.

2) you are playing tennis or some activity. You get tired and your legs
give out or stubble or something that causes you to descend past the
point you normally squat. Again you don't much strength here and could
get injured.

What may happen is that your knees will go forward as you descend,
putting it in a vulnerable position.
Also when your legs are weak in the lower position what will happen usually
is that you simply won't lunge or bend low enough for the ball and will
use your back instead to bend over or round your back. This is a very bad
thing and can lead to lower back injuries.

It's like the guy doing benches by only descending a few inches. I've
seen guys lifting quite a lot this way all the time. Like past 250 lbs.
If they accidentally screw up once and get past their usual lower
position they could be in trouble. Even with a spotter.

For the purposes of tennis, a full range of motion is important. Sometimes
you have to hit stretch volleys or shots where you are moving in very
outstretched/lunging position and you don't really want your legs to
give out or be weak here.

Power Player
09-19-2008, 05:32 PM
Im 165#

Bench 305
Squat 325
Dead 320

LazyAzN
09-19-2008, 05:41 PM
2 years ago I was 140 lbs and benched 185 max. Repped 135 for 3 sets of 5. Then I was 153 and could rep 2 sets of 10 for 135 lbs. Now I'm 141 and rep 95 for 3 sets of 15.

FastFreddy
09-20-2008, 06:31 PM
I put up 285 for 20 reps 3 sets 5 mins rest between sets. first I warmed up with 6 sets of seated shoulder press started at 185 for 15 reps finshed at 255 for 5 reps.Shoulder feels good going to still get a mri on the 30th and get the results on the 2nd. Haven't played tennis for 4 weeks. If I do decide to play again no more two hand backhands just hit the slice and crank out some onehand top spin backhands. I will string my racquet with 15l vs gut on the crosses and Luxilon power rough 16l on the mains 60 pounds.

heycal
09-21-2008, 03:32 PM
What say Rickson and Chess9 about which is safer, going low on squats or not?

Gmedlo
09-21-2008, 04:14 PM
What say Rickson and Chess9 about which is safer, going low on squats or not?

They'll probably say it depends on your anatomy... I can go ATG on my squats as long as I keep my weight on my heels, while my friend can barely get past parallel, and has tons of knee popping and crackling.

heycal
09-21-2008, 04:20 PM
They'll probably say it depends on your anatomy... I can go ATG on my squats as long as I keep my weight on my heels, while my friend can barely get past parallel, and has tons of knee popping and crackling.

This anecdote offers no support for the "full is safer" argument, nor even a "depends on your anatomy" argument, given we are trying to determine which way is safer. Instead it suggests that partial is safer. Whether some people could go full without ill-effect does not mean that full is safer, ya know?

Kevin T
09-21-2008, 04:30 PM
Im 165#

Bench 305
Squat 325
Dead 320

If you're benching 300#, you should be squating 500# easy.

Rickson
09-21-2008, 04:37 PM
What if he doesn't work his legs much, Kev?

Gmedlo
09-21-2008, 06:33 PM
This anecdote offers no support for the "full is safer" argument, nor even a "depends on your anatomy" argument, given we are trying to determine which way is safer. Instead it suggests that partial is safer. Whether some people could go full without ill-effect does not mean that full is safer, ya know?

I should've said that ATG is what I naturally do, as in it causes no pain. My friend, however, almost falls over, writhing with knee pain when he does full ATG squats. It depends completely on who is doing the squat. Full is safer for me, just beyond parallel is safer for my friend. The only point that we can be sure of is that not going to at least parallel is good for no one.

Reading some of your earlier posts, I wish I had my book Starting Strength with me (heard of it? ;)). There's a great excerpt that explains how the hip flexors activate optimally at a certain depth (you see this at the bottom of the squat when the hips move forward before you go up), so there are more differences between a partial squat and a full squat than simply stress on your knees. When you go deeper, you are activating more muscles to lift the same amount of weight, thus usually making it safer. I've never heard or read anyone recommend staying above parallel.

When I lift at my friends on monday I'll get the book back and try and scan the pages if I have time. Or, if you have the book, you can find it yourself.

heycal
09-21-2008, 08:18 PM
We need some more opinions! Rickson, pay attention and put your two cents in here.

Also, what about the thing of not letting your knees go past your toes? Isn't going fuller likely to increase that happening?

And what does "ATG" stand for?

Gmedlo
09-22-2008, 04:58 AM
We need some more opinions! Rickson, pay attention and put your two cents in here.

Also, what about the thing of not letting your knees go past your toes? Isn't going fuller likely to increase that happening?

And what does "ATG" stand for?

ATG = "AS*S to Grass", as in going as low as possible.

heycal
09-23-2008, 04:08 PM
Yes, those internet medical diagnoses are perfect if you are looking for in injury upgrade-say, a strain to tear. :)


How true it continues to be. Someone has introduced the possibility that the pain in my lower leg/top of foot could be a stress fracture.

heycal
10-05-2008, 05:26 PM
Hey, you wait training types, join us in this thread here and put in your two cents. Thanks.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=2762821#post2762821

Hot Sauce
10-05-2008, 05:43 PM
Im 165#

Bench 305
Squat 325
Dead 320

You bench almost twice your body weight, and you bench just as much as you deadlift and squat.

Proof? Video?

samkristy
10-09-2008, 11:54 AM
i'm 160#, can only bench 210-220 once on a good day, can squat not much over 250 going just down to parallel, and I can deadlift 300. How could you bench over 300 and barely do more than me in the deadlift? seems odd, but of course, nothing's impossible

r2473
10-09-2008, 07:07 PM
I put up 285 for 20 reps 3 sets 5 mins rest between sets. first I warmed up with 6 sets of seated shoulder press started at 185 for 15 reps finshed at 255 for 5 reps.Shoulder feels good going to still get a mri on the 30th and get the results on the 2nd. Haven't played tennis for 4 weeks. If I do decide to play again no more two hand backhands just hit the slice and crank out some onehand top spin backhands. I will string my racquet with 15l vs gut on the crosses and Luxilon power rough 16l on the mains 60 pounds.

OK, let me get this straight........you have a shoulder injury and can still bench 285 for 3 sets of 20 reps?

Suddenly I feel like a pu$$y.

You must be one large, thick man sir. Holy *****.

FastFreddy
10-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Well I did tweak my shoulder 2 months ago hitting a two hand backhand. so I have hung up my tennis racquet for good. Well 285 is a warmup set for me I do 15 reps with that.

Next I jump up to 325 or 335 for 5-8 reps then finish with 385 for a single rep.
Since I jacked up my right shoulder from tennis I got a xray which doesn't show a tendon problem. So I was going to get a mri on Sept 30th but found out I would have to pay 800.00 for it. So I said no thanks and just rest it for 9 months and let the tedon heal on its own and do my pt. The doctor called me up and said if I wanted to come in to the office for a courtozone shot after I turned down the mri but I was like thanks but no thanks.

Those are really bad for your tendons plus it will mask the pain and your will go out and tear up your shoulder even more. Plus if the mri might show nothing or show a small tear in the cuff I didn't feel like having a third shoulder surgery and do all the rehab to what play tennis again, I only play 2-4 times a month so its not a big deal to me at this point in my life.

It hasn't really effected my benching I decided to just to stay safe and stay away from low reps anything under 15 reps until 9 months pass or maybe never go heavy again. No more tennis for me in this lifetime, plus I been playing less and less and getting worse and worse its really sad how much my game has fallen off in the last 9 years. I was playing great in Jan 1999 then tore my left cuff playing on clay 12 hrs a week. I know 285 sounds like a lot but I bench on a smith machine and don't go past parallel. I gave up free weight bench after I wrecked my right shoulder back in 1992 while playing ice hockey.

My best bench on free weight was 365 at 185. My best bench on the smith was 425 at 223. Remember I been lifting twice a week since I was 10 years old and was high school weight lifting champ so don't feel like a pu**y or weak. Plus I weigh 209 so 285 isn't really that heavy for my weight.

I also gave up my membership at lafitness so I won't be tempted to lift any heavy weights any more. Now I do a chest press at my condo gym that only goes up to 285 so all I can do is more reps and sets. I do some seated rows, lat pulldown underhand grip to the front, standing dumbell shoulder press and curls and trap work thats it. Just running and cycling for the legs and heart.

I got two wilson k90 4 5/8 grip racquets like new 9 out of 10 if anyone wants them I listed them on this site in the for sale ads. I will give you a great deal on them since I will not be playing again. Just bought them one month before I screwed up my shoulder.

r2473
10-10-2008, 10:30 AM
Plus I weigh 209 so 285 isn't really that heavy for my weight.

That's being pretty modest, considering you are tossing that weight for 15 reps (and apparently not even struggling with the 15th rep).

I still think you are a bad***** (and so do the charts below). I bet you are probably in the "elite" range in all of the core exercises listed!!

http://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.html

http://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

FastFreddy
10-10-2008, 03:44 PM
I checked out the chart you posted I was elite in benching 365 and pressing with 245 at 185. I have only done deadlifts to 365 when my weight was 185 with no belt and no knee wraps. I was too scared to go past that weight since I don't want to wreck my lower back since I was playing Junior hockey at the time. Plus I was building strength so I kept the reps at 5-8 range and the weight at 85 percent of my max.

I am not built for squats so I never done them. I instead do leg press instead I gone as heavy as 3 reps at 900 and one rep for 1000lbs. Most of the time I keep the reps at 25 and the weight at 450 max on a cybex leg press machine to burn up the legs. Sounds heavy and it is but I seen bodybuilders do like 2500 on the sled on utube Ronnie Coleman. Plus at that weight you feel it more in your joints than on your muscle.

It's hard to gauge most lifts like bench, squats, leg press since most guys do short reps. Most of the time you have to see the lift to believe it unless you know that person and know they use good form. I use to clean 245 then press it and put it behind my neck then do my step ups for hockey. To make elite In all I would have to squat 480, clean 310, deadlift 548 never going to happen to me.

I was told I am good at benching because I have strong lats and rear delts, traps and lower back for support. I got good at it with years of training that lift and alot of it is to train your muscles for that movement and your mental training to lift for a one rep max.

r2473
10-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I am not built for squats so I never done them.


Most of the time I keep the reps at 25 and the weight at 450 max on a cybex leg press machine to burn up the legs.


Can you explain what you mean by "not built for squats"? I have an idea maybe, but would like to understand what you mean.

Your cybex routine reminds me of the "death squat" routine I do once in a while. I think Tom Platz made if famous.

r2473
10-11-2008, 12:38 PM
I have only done deadlifts to 365 when my weight was 185 with no belt and no knee wraps.

I understand the benefits of weight belts when doing exercises like deadlifts, squats, and standing military presses for reducing stress on the lower back. I tend to not use a weight belt, even though I do lift heavy. I do feel stress on my lower back, but always assumed that it was better to let my spinal erector muscles get used to the load and build strength.

What is your opinion?



Anyone can chime in if they have an opinion. Thanks.

heycal
10-11-2008, 12:43 PM
Well if anyone can chime in, then I will: If we're talking about back-stressing amounts of weight, perhaps it's a sign that it it's too much weight or is otherwise not a healthy exercise for us?

FastFreddy
10-11-2008, 08:02 PM
As you know some guys like me are built for benching. Short arms large chest.
Other guys are deadlift guys short legs long arms. And squat guys like my friends are shorter( short thick legs ) between 5'3 to 5'9 at about 225lbs. Plus I have like zero flexibility in my hamstrings and my hockey ankles only like going side to side not foward and back. I tired the piece of wood under my feet and some plates. Also that dam bar digs into my neck does not feel good. I tried the black foam pad the blue bat wing.
Also my hips are also super tight like the rest of my body. I was born super tight aleast as I age I wont lose any flex since I strarted with zero.


I never used a weight belt or knee wraps other guys swear by them.
Just be careful adding weight to your lower back movements so not to tweak your back. I have wrecked my lower back from getting to crazy with power cleans back in the day. So bad it took me 5 mins to get into the car in the passanger side I couldn't even drive. Just remember you have to be able to tell the difference between a sore lower back from working it and wrecking it. Its a fine line which most of us who lift heavy will cross now and then and pay the price. By walking bend over for a week or 2. If you are doing squats the right way you should feel it in your legs not your lower back. If you feel it more in your back you are doing a good morning movement. Tom Platz is the man for legs and super low squats hams kissin the calfs.

r2473
10-13-2008, 01:33 PM
If you are doing squats the right way you should feel it in your legs not your lower back. If you feel it more in your back you are doing a good morning movement.

True.

The only exercise that really makes my lower back sore anymore (and worries me a little) are deadlifts.

I used to feel it in my back on squats, but I was just doing them wrong. With the standing military press, it just took a little time for my back to adjust and get used to it. I used to do seated military presses or dumbbell presses.

srv vlly
10-13-2008, 03:19 PM
i can only do 75lbs for 4 sets of 10 i weigh 148

r2473
10-15-2008, 09:07 AM
I checked out the chart you posted I was elite in benching 365 and pressing with 245 at 185. I have only done deadlifts to 365 when my weight was 185 with no belt and no knee wraps. I was too scared to go past that weight since I don't want to wreck my lower back since I was playing Junior hockey at the time. Plus I was building strength so I kept the reps at 5-8 range and the weight at 85 percent of my max.

I am not built for squats so I never done them. I instead do leg press instead I gone as heavy as 3 reps at 900 and one rep for 1000lbs. Most of the time I keep the reps at 25 and the weight at 450 max on a cybex leg press machine to burn up the legs. Sounds heavy and it is but I seen bodybuilders do like 2500 on the sled on utube Ronnie Coleman. Plus at that weight you feel it more in your joints than on your muscle.

It's hard to gauge most lifts like bench, squats, leg press since most guys do short reps. Most of the time you have to see the lift to believe it unless you know that person and know they use good form. I use to clean 245 then press it and put it behind my neck then do my step ups for hockey. To make elite In all I would have to squat 480, clean 310, deadlift 548 never going to happen to me.

I was told I am good at benching because I have strong lats and rear delts, traps and lower back for support. I got good at it with years of training that lift and alot of it is to train your muscles for that movement and your mental training to lift for a one rep max.

For the past week I have been thinking about the weight you have pulled / pushed as I set my own strength goals.

I am 6' 2". 210 lbs. 35 years old.

My goals on 4 "benchmark" exercises:

Standing Military Press: Body weight

Bench Press: Body weight * 1.5

Squat: Body weight * 2

Deadlift: Body weight * 2.5 (this might be slightly too high)

I am estimating 18 - 24 months to achieve these goals.

Thanks "FastFreddy" for your help.

FastFreddy
01-14-2013, 10:13 AM
It's almost been a year since my last shoulder surgery which was my fourth one. I had two on the left and 2 on the right. One open style and scope job on each shoulder for a tear in my cuff and remove bone spurs. I started benching free weights again 3 months ago. I have not benched free weights since 1992 because that was the year I wrecked my right shoulder in hockey. Best bench on the smith machine in the past 20 years was 285 for 20 reps. This past Friday I put up 255 for 15 reps. My goal by summer is to get to 285 and reach 305 for 15 reps by 2014. Going to try 260 and 265 tomorrow hope my cuff holds up?

T1000
01-14-2013, 09:50 PM
At my best last summer at 190lbs
Bench: 275
Squat: 385, missed 405 by a little :(
Deadlift: 455

Mono and injuries got me, down to 225/315/405 right now. Hoping to get a 315/500/800 before I'm 25 (20 now, 21 beg of may)

Itagaki
01-14-2013, 10:21 PM
At my best last summer at 190lbs
Bench: 275
Squat: 385, missed 405 by a little :(
Deadlift: 455

Mono and injuries got me, down to 225/315/405 right now. Hoping to get a 315/500/800 before I'm 25 (20 now, 21 beg of may)

800lb deadlift?

Jesus, that'd give you the drug tested world record in your weight class....by a long shot.

My numbers at around 170lbs.

Bench: 230
Squat: 408
Deadlift: 401

I neither deadlift nor bench very much. Bench tends to make my shoulders tighten up a bit too much for the class lifts

FastFreddy
01-15-2013, 06:45 AM
At my best last summer at 190lbs
Bench: 275
Squat: 385, missed 405 by a little :(
Deadlift: 455

Mono and injuries got me, down to 225/315/405 right now. Hoping to get a 315/500/800 before I'm 25 (20 now, 21 beg of may)

Killer deadlift I never gone past 365 since I was worried about wrecking my lower back nice lift!! 385 is a sweet squat almost 4 plates!!

T1000
01-15-2013, 06:55 AM
800lb deadlift?

Jesus, that'd give you the drug tested world record in your weight class....by a long shot.

My numbers at around 170lbs.

Bench: 230
Squat: 408
Deadlift: 401

I neither deadlift nor bench very much. Bench tends to make my shoulders tighten up a bit too much for the class lifts

Those goal weights would be around 220-225 BW. I'm 170 now and we have the same lifts except squat, idk how you got a 408 when I missed 405 20lbs heavier. Being 6'1 doesn't help me either aha. And to get that deadlift I'd probably have to use if I want to stay around 225 at 10% and I probably will. Another long shot goal is to get a 845 squat and break the 225 weight class record.

Killer deadlift I never gone past 365 since I was worried about wrecking my lower back nice lift!! 385 is a sweet squat almost 4 plates!!

Deadlift is my strongest by far. Long arms make it easier to pull. I was so ****ed when I missed that 405 squat, would've been awesome to hit 4 plates. I can do a 4 plate box squat but can't back squat it yet. Hoping to hit that by May.

You're bench is sick for having 4 shoulder surgeries. I've had 2 and I can't imagine going above 225 right now. Got my standing press to 135 and am not going above that any time soon. Did you have any surgeries before 20? I'm 21 in May and had 2 in high school and it's so frustrating having my lifts stalled and regressing a little in my physical prime. Yours were spread out right, not all within 4-5 years?

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlMCIhdMSg4 825 squat at 220 bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nZ-F7MHpbA 800 dead at 240
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVhvy6T8dIA 875x4 dead at I think 280
couple inspirations to watch before squat and deadlift day

heycal
01-15-2013, 07:58 AM
ATG = "AS*S to Grass", as in going as low as possible.

Did someone say *** to ass??

v-verb
01-15-2013, 08:52 AM
5'7" and 160 lbs. I can do 235 lbs for reps. Not a lot but enough for me

Itagaki
01-15-2013, 09:00 AM
Those goal weights would be around 220-225 BW. I'm 170 now and we have the same lifts except squat, idk how you got a 408 when I missed 405 20lbs heavier. Being 6'1 doesn't help me either aha. And to get that deadlift I'd probably have to use if I want to stay around 225 at 10% and I probably will. Another long shot goal is to get a 845 squat and break the 225 weight class record.



Deadlift is my strongest by far. Long arms make it easier to pull. I was so ****ed when I missed that 405 squat, would've been awesome to hit 4 plates. I can do a 4 plate box squat but can't back squat it yet. Hoping to hit that by May.

You're bench is sick for having 4 shoulder surgeries. I've had 2 and I can't imagine going above 225 right now. Got my standing press to 135 and am not going above that any time soon. Did you have any surgeries before 20? I'm 21 in May and had 2 in high school and it's so frustrating having my lifts stalled and regressing a little in my physical prime. Yours were spread out right, not all within 4-5 years?

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlMCIhdMSg4 825 squat at 220 bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nZ-F7MHpbA 800 dead at 240
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVhvy6T8dIA 875x4 dead at I think 280
couple inspirations to watch before squat and deadlift day

Realistically speaking, you're maximum potential is going to be at a much heavier bodyweight than 225 at that height.

And you'd DEFINITELY have to use to reach those number (maybe not definitely, but i'm like 99.9% confident). However 6'1 225lbs and 10% should be achievable natural

Also worth remembering is unless the records were set in the IPF or USAPL, they were set with 24 hour weigh-ins, so the record holders are likely walking around 20-30+ pounds over their competition weight class

Here's a good drug free squat though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIv2miT9NJc

I think his best squat without wraps is 302kg/666lbs and he's pulled 290kg

It was done in an untested federation (but I know he's clean), it's the american record in the 220 class for the SPF, and despite the typical squat depth in the SPF, that's pretty damn legit.


Regarding my squat...it's about the only thing I'm really decent at, my snatch and clean and jerk suck in relation. Makes me think I should switch to powerlifting....except olympic lifting is way more fun

FastFreddy
01-15-2013, 09:07 AM
Those goal weights would be around 220-225 BW. I'm 170 now and we have the same lifts except squat, idk how you got a 408 when I missed 405 20lbs heavier. Being 6'1 doesn't help me either aha. And to get that deadlift I'd probably have to use if I want to stay around 225 at 10% and I probably will. Another long shot goal is to get a 845 squat and break the 225 weight class record.



Deadlift is my strongest by far. Long arms make it easier to pull. I was so ****ed when I missed that 405 squat, would've been awesome to hit 4 plates. I can do a 4 plate box squat but can't back squat it yet. Hoping to hit that by May.

You're bench is sick for having 4 shoulder surgeries. I've had 2 and I can't imagine going above 225 right now. Got my standing press to 135 and am not going above that any time soon. Did you have any surgeries before 20? I'm 21 in May and had 2 in high school and it's so frustrating having my lifts stalled and regressing a little in my physical prime. Yours were spread out right, not all within 4-5 years?

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlMCIhdMSg4 825 squat at 220 bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nZ-F7MHpbA 800 dead at 240
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVhvy6T8dIA 875x4 dead at I think 280
couple inspirations to watch before squat and deadlift day

No, 24 years old, had 4 surgeries done over the past 16 years. My best clean and press was 245 @ 185 pounds in my best hockey shape.

maggmaster
01-15-2013, 09:14 AM
10% 225 is 55 lbs of lean muscle gain? That would be tough as a natural.

Itagaki
01-15-2013, 12:29 PM
5'7" and 160 lbs. I can do 235 lbs for reps. Not a lot but enough for me

That's pretty impressive I'd say. ~1.5xBW for reps?

10% 225 is 55 lbs of lean muscle gain? That would be tough as a natural.

If we accept something like the FFMI (which is certainly not perfect but a good starting point) you're right.

I was thinking of Donny Shankle when I made that statement, he's about 6'0 and competes as a 105kg/231lbs. He's certainly not fat, but he's clearly not 10%. I was estimating him around 15% visually, but it could certainly be off. I firmly believe he is steroid free due to the amount of testing weightlifters get in the USA. However the FFMI would say he's on steroids if he's anything under 21% bf so I don't quite believe it's always applicable.

Another example would be Jon North who's around 5'9-10 and competes as a 94kg/206lb lifter, FFMI would also suggest he's on something. So I believe it's possible, but certainly not easy.

Also some motivation for T1000
http://www.allthingsgym.com/2013/01/jesse-norris-839kg-total-90kg-age-19/

Drug tested meet? Check
2-hour Weigh in? Check
WR total in all tested or untested meets at that class? Check

In fact in all drug tested meets, his total exceeds that of the two weight classes above him (no wraps, exceeds the weight class above with wraps even)

Just an idea of what can be achieved naturally (or by beating the tests if your pessimistic)

FastFreddy
01-15-2013, 04:10 PM
Benched 255 for 15, next set 260 for 15 and last set 265 for 15. I took a full 5 mins rest in between sets to fully recover. Lance is going to be the new Strength coach of the SD Chargers haha!! Get them back to roids like the 1963 team AFL Champoins 11-3 D-bol champs hehe .

Rickson
01-15-2013, 05:21 PM
Freddy, long time no see. Yes, I did get that job.

T1000
01-15-2013, 07:49 PM
Realistically speaking, you're maximum potential is going to be at a much heavier bodyweight than 225 at that height.

And you'd DEFINITELY have to use to reach those number (maybe not definitely, but i'm like 99.9% confident). However 6'1 225lbs and 10% should be achievable natural

Also worth remembering is unless the records were set in the IPF or USAPL, they were set with 24 hour weigh-ins, so the record holders are likely walking around 20-30+ pounds over their competition weight class

Here's a good drug free squat though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIv2miT9NJc

I think his best squat without wraps is 302kg/666lbs and he's pulled 290kg

It was done in an untested federation (but I know he's clean), it's the american record in the 220 class for the SPF, and despite the typical squat depth in the SPF, that's pretty damn legit.


Regarding my squat...it's about the only thing I'm really decent at, my snatch and clean and jerk suck in relation. Makes me think I should switch to powerlifting....except olympic lifting is way more fun

I'm trying to get these by 25 so a little over 4 years left. There's no way I'm getting those without peds. They're relatively safe if you know what you're doing anyway so I'm not worried at all about the sides. Been researching them since I was 17 so I'll have plenty of info when I'm ready. I find powerlifting more fun. I like bench/squat/dead better than the olympic lifts.

10% 225 is 55 lbs of lean muscle gain? That would be tough as a natural.

I haven't even reached muscle maturity or finished puberty yet. I'm a late bloomer, was 5'8 at 17 and 6'1 at 18 so my frame still hasn't filled out naturally yet. This is what I looked like at 190. First 2 are pumped and 3rd is at 175 and no pump
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0125.jpg
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0165_zps992a07e1.jpg
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0320_zps6c2a9578.jpg


Also some motivation for T1000
http://www.allthingsgym.com/2013/01/jesse-norris-839kg-total-90kg-age-19/

Drug tested meet? Check
2-hour Weigh in? Check
WR total in all tested or untested meets at that class? Check

In fact in all drug tested meets, his total exceeds that of the two weight classes above him (no wraps, exceeds the weight class above with wraps even)

Just an idea of what can be achieved naturally (or by beating the tests if your pessimistic)

I def wanna do a meet one day. I'm a late bloomer though so I won't hit my peak until I'm 28-29 natty and I started lifting ~15 months ago (11/11) so I'm behind right now

Benched 255 for 15, next set 260 for 15 and last set 265 for 15. I took a full 5 mins rest in between sets to fully recover. Lance is going to be the new Strength coach of the SD Chargers haha!! Get them back to roids like the 1963 team AFL Champoins 11-3 D-bol champs hehe .

That's sick dude keep it up. Did chest today too but used DBs. Inclined 60s for 3x6 and weighted dips 3x8x90. You'll def hit 300 for reps by summer

Itagaki
01-15-2013, 08:27 PM
I def wanna do a meet one day. I'm a late bloomer though so I won't hit my peak until I'm 28-29 natty and I started lifting ~15 months ago (11/11) so I'm behind right now


Why wait? Compete ASAP. It's worth it and tends to make training much more exciting.

Assuming you're like me where you get hooked on competitions anyway

maggmaster
01-16-2013, 05:00 AM
Thats why tennis is so good for me, I need something to work towards

FastFreddy
01-17-2013, 09:28 AM
I'm trying to get these by 25 so a little over 4 years left. There's no way I'm getting those without peds. They're relatively safe if you know what you're doing anyway so I'm not worried at all about the sides. Been researching them since I was 17 so I'll have plenty of info when I'm ready. I find powerlifting more fun. I like bench/squat/dead better than the olympic lifts.



I haven't even reached muscle maturity or finished puberty yet. I'm a late bloomer, was 5'8 at 17 and 6'1 at 18 so my frame still hasn't filled out naturally yet. This is what I looked like at 190. First 2 are pumped and 3rd is at 175 and no pump
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0125.jpg
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0165_zps992a07e1.jpg
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/T1000ct/IMG_0320_zps6c2a9578.jpg



I def wanna do a meet one day. I'm a late bloomer though so I won't hit my peak until I'm 28-29 natty and I started lifting ~15 months ago (11/11) so I'm behind right now



That's sick dude keep it up. Did chest today too but used DBs. Inclined 60s for 3x6 and weighted dips 3x8x90. You'll def hit 300 for reps by summer

Thanks, r u on any gear? I only ask since your skin is really breaking out. I never understood the whole weighted dips and chins, pullup thing. Also dudes people who wear the chain on their neck and add weights and work the neck with a 45 pound plates. I watch one dude put a 100 pound db and do dips seems nuts to me and a good way to wreck your shoulder and bag and twig.

Andyroddickfan
01-17-2013, 04:17 PM
What supplements do (or did) you guys take?

NLBwell
01-17-2013, 05:04 PM
Bench Press - 0 lbs
Shoulder is injured.
Used to do a lot of push-ups. Any suggestions on what to do to strengthen upper body/chest without pinging my shoulder?

Itagaki
01-17-2013, 05:12 PM
Thanks, r u on any gear? I only ask since your skin is really breaking out. I never understood the whole weighted dips and chins, pullup thing. Also dudes people who wear the chain on their neck and add weights and work the neck with a 45 pound plates. I watch one dude put a 100 pound db and do dips seems nuts to me and a good way to wreck your shoulder and bag and twig.

Understand in what sense? I'm sure as a CSCS you're familiar with adaptation principles and rep ranges. You can do pull ups and dips with your bodyweight for days on end, but it limits what adaptations you can induce (particularly in the "strength" range). Adding weight is another way of changing the stimulus in a manner that might be more desirable

Regarding dips...dips in general can mess up your shoulders if they're not performed correctly. That being said, if they are being performed correctly, I don't see too much issue with adding that much weight

r2473
01-17-2013, 05:51 PM
Regarding dips...dips in general can mess up your shoulders if they're not performed correctly. That being said, if they are being performed correctly, I don't see too much issue with adding that much weight

Well correctly is dependent upon your previous training and what you are trying to accomplish. I do dips to the lowest anatomically possible range of motion, pause, and slowly push back up. Why? I want to be able to do a "real" (no kipping at all) muscle up (like this dude....amazing!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzkYctW6AVk

Itagaki
01-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Well correctly is dependent upon your previous training and what you are trying to accomplish. I do dips to the lowest anatomically possible range of motion, pause, and slowly push back up. Why? I want to be able to do a "real" (no kipping at all) muscle up (like this dude....amazing!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzkYctW6AVk

That is a damn impressive muscle up, particularly the transition.

I think I did a muscle up (no kip) once in my life, it was not slow though and I had to start from a weird position (didnt have a high enough anchor to start from a real deadhang)

maggmaster
01-18-2013, 04:15 AM
I can't do muscle ups. I think I have a mental hang up I always feel like I will rip something in my shoulder.

FastFreddy
01-18-2013, 06:48 AM
Understand in what sense? I'm sure as a CSCS you're familiar with adaptation principles and rep ranges. You can do pull ups and dips with your bodyweight for days on end, but it limits what adaptations you can induce (particularly in the "strength" range). Adding weight is another way of changing the stimulus in a manner that might be more desirable

Regarding dips...dips in general can mess up your shoulders if they're not performed correctly. That being said, if they are being performed correctly, I don't see too much issue with adding that much weight

As u know strength rep range is 5-6. Those movements are for muscle endurance. I have plenty of bodybuilder friends and none of them do weighted dips, chins or pullups. All of them do bench but not heavy 12-15 rep range to pump the muscle with latic acid to get bigger. The people I seen doing weighted dips r these skinny dudes training for not one one sport. Another way to wreck your shoulder is behind the neck press and lat pulldown.

heycal
01-18-2013, 06:55 AM
As u know strength rep range is 5-6. Those movements are for muscle endurance. I have plenty of bodybuilder friends and none of them do weighted dips, chins or pullups. All of them do bench but not heavy 12-15 rep range to pump the muscle with latic acid to get bigger..

I thought strength range was more like 4-6, and muscle mass range was more like 7-12. And then anything over 12 was more for endurance. No?

Itagaki
01-18-2013, 08:56 AM
As u know strength rep range is 5-6. Those movements are for muscle endurance. I have plenty of bodybuilder friends and none of them do weighted dips, chins or pullups. All of them do bench but not heavy 12-15 rep range to pump the muscle with latic acid to get bigger. The people I seen doing weighted dips r these skinny dudes training for not one one sport. Another way to wreck your shoulder is behind the neck press and lat pulldown.

I'd disagree with movements like pull ups and dips being categorized as muscle endurance right off the bat, it's just how you use them and they don't have to be for one specific purpose. Changing the loading changes its purpose. But i'd agree that they are probably most effective for reps, especially pull ups as I think the back responds better to higher reps than the "strength range" (of course I have nothing to back this up)

To be fair, the behind the neck press CAN be damaging but can also be used if it's done properly IE with a wide grip. The snatch grip strict press (and push press) are performed BTN as assistance movements for olympic lifters. If you do it narrow though? Yea that's bad news, especially if you have bad shoulder mobility

IA-SteveB
01-18-2013, 11:14 AM
My best was when I was 32 years old competing in a drug free (tested) competition. I was in the 148lb class and put up 285. This was using strict form where you bring the weight down and rest it on your chest until the official yells press.

At 40, I wish I could still do that, but I haven't trained heavy weight in a while. I have just been maintaining and rarely go over 225. I now weigh 141.

T1000
01-18-2013, 04:54 PM
Thanks, r u on any gear? I only ask since your skin is really breaking out. I never understood the whole weighted dips and chins, pullup thing. Also dudes people who wear the chain on their neck and add weights and work the neck with a 45 pound plates. I watch one dude put a 100 pound db and do dips seems nuts to me and a good way to wreck your shoulder and bag and twig.

Not yet. Natty up til now, gonna change soon. I've always had bad acne unfortunately. I'm running one this semester and starting within the next couple of weeks (2/18 at the latest). I'm a late bloomer too so the acne is hitting me at 19,20 instead of 16.

I love weighted dips and chins. I can do 20+ without weight. I use a belt. I can't see doing chains or the head harness being any good for you.

T1000
01-18-2013, 04:57 PM
What supplements do (or did) you guys take?

Orange Triad multi 6 daily
Creatine Mono 3-5g daily
BSN syntha-6 protein to help me get my macros
Fish Oil

You could add a preworkout for energy, a test booster (Ape or activate xtreme+Triazole) and beta alanine if you want too. These are pretty much the only useful supps. Some people like ZMA, didn't work for me though

Andyroddickfan
01-18-2013, 05:34 PM
Orange Triad multi 6 daily
Creatine Mono 3-5g daily
BSN syntha-6 protein to help me get my macros
Fish Oil

You could add a preworkout for energy, a test booster (Ape or activate xtreme+Triazole) and beta alanine if you want too. These are pretty much the only useful supps. Some people like ZMA, didn't work for me though

Do you think creatine helps the most? Is it worth the hype? Never used it, but people say its the best.

T1000
01-19-2013, 09:49 AM
Do you think creatine helps the most? Is it worth the hype? Never used it, but people say its the best.

I'll go through each one for why I use them

Orange Triad - micro nutrients, joint protection, digestive complex, immune protection. I have felt this helps a lot. I squat heavy 2x a week and deadlift 1x, I never go above 5 reps (except for 20 rep squats to end my leg workout) so my joints need help. Easier to digest more food (lactose intolerant and haven't had a problem while on OT) and I don't get sick when I'm on it. Overall I feel better and more energetic while taking it.

Protein - hit my cal, protein, fat, and carb counts. I bulk on 5k cals and 800g carbs and 455g protein so this helps me get those when I mix it with whole milk

Fish Oil - I feel more energetic and in a better mood when I take it. No idea how it's translated into my training.

Creatine Mono - I train for strength. I find this gives me the extra water weight to push more reps, but I don't bloat a lot like other users report. And it gives me more muscle endurance. It is noticeable to me. I have tried designer creatines too and the only two I would consider are Controlled Labs Green Magnitude and Creatine Nitrate.

http://supplementreviews.com/controlled-labs/green-magnitude
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=133439933&page=1

I've used both and am gonna switch to creatine nitrate. The pumps are amazing and addicting. I've read that they are similar to the pumps you get on cycle, which I will be able to confirm in a couple weeks. Green mag gave ma a noticeable strength increase.


I am in agreement that creatine is one of the few supplements that works. You can buy a years supply of mono for less than $20 so it's worth it to try out (brand doesn't matter, creatine mono = creatine mono). I prefer green mag or creatine nitrate to mono now but I would try mono first if it's your first time with creatine. all star health has amazing prices for supplements if you're looking for a good site.

FastFreddy
01-19-2013, 03:48 PM
Not yet. Natty up til now, gonna change soon. I've always had bad acne unfortunately. I'm running one this semester and starting within the next couple of weeks (2/18 at the latest). I'm a late bloomer too so the acne is hitting me at 19,20 instead of 16.

I love weighted dips and chins. I can do 20+ without weight. I use a belt. I can't see doing chains or the head harness being any good for you.

U said u were going to use peds if so which ones? I had friends get ripped on Winstrol-v, get huge on D-bol, Decca, Anadrol and Anavar. Now Test and HGH is all the gear u need unless u r Lance then add in EPO lol!! If I would ever juice I go with Winstrol V and just one 5 mg tab a day to cut up. Yesterday I benched 265 for 15 then 270 for 15 then 275 for 15. Waiting until I hit the wall I would say 285 since that's the most I done for 15. One time I knocked out 20 @ 285 on a smith machine.

T1000
01-21-2013, 07:35 PM
U said u were going to use peds if so which ones? I had friends get ripped on Winstrol-v, get huge on D-bol, Decca, Anadrol and Anavar. Now Test and HGH is all the gear u need unless u r Lance then add in EPO lol!! If I would ever juice I go with Winstrol V and just one 5 mg tab a day to cut up. Yesterday I benched 265 for 15 then 270 for 15 then 275 for 15. Waiting until I hit the wall I would say 285 since that's the most I done for 15. One time I knocked out 20 @ 285 on a smith machine.

IDK yet. Looking at dbol, tbol, var, test, tren, deca, and halotestin. Done a lot of research on these and deciding this week what I'm gonna use, if I start now.

Rickson
01-21-2013, 08:00 PM
T, don't use that ****. Stay natural and your organs will be with you a lot longer.

IA-SteveB
01-22-2013, 07:32 AM
T, don't use that ****. Stay natural and your organs will be with you a lot longer.

I agree wholeheartedly. People who take this crap never give any thought to what may happen down the road. There are guys in the gym who talk about shooting up like it is as common as eating a donut for breakfast. It just makes me laugh. Plenty of naturals are just as good or better.

FastFreddy
01-22-2013, 08:28 AM
IDK yet. Looking at dbol, tbol, var, test, tren, deca, and halotestin. Done a lot of research on these and deciding this week what I'm gonna use, if I start now.

I seen a dude get huge on tren from BSN called no-xpode? Iam sure he was using other gear too. He bought up alot of it when it was still being sold like 3 years ago. I think it was a pro hormone but on the label it said use onlt for 4 weeks. Sounds like a roid to me since and my friend said his stick stopped working and his two little friends got smaller not good!! If I was going to take anything I would go Winstrol-v to cut up and then go Test and that's it HGH makes dudes look too freaky. Going to try and bench 280, 285, 290 each for 15 reps.

FastFreddy
01-22-2013, 08:31 AM
Freddy, long time no see. Yes, I did get that job.

Nice, knew it would work out for u!!

Itagaki
01-22-2013, 08:47 AM
T, don't use that ****. Stay natural and your organs will be with you a lot longer.

I agree wholeheartedly. People who take this crap never give any thought to what may happen down the road. There are guys in the gym who talk about shooting up like it is as common as eating a donut for breakfast. It just makes me laugh. Plenty of naturals are just as good or better.

If he's really done his research (which he has said) he'll be just fine. Like any drug, the biggest danger is in abuse. If it's done properly, intelligently, and with medical supervision (at least inform your GP that you're doing it) then it can be done safely and effectively without destroying yourself anymore than long term drinking, smoking, or other drug use.

Gym bros that talk about shooting up in the gym probably do not fall into the category of intelligent users

T has some extravagant goals he wants to reach, which realistically WILL require the use of PEDS to accomplish unless he is in the top .1% of the genetic freak pool (like the kid I posted earlier, who might very well be on drugs and just beat the test)

T1000
01-22-2013, 02:55 PM
T, don't use that ****. Stay natural and your organs will be with you a lot longer.

I want to be a pro athlete (mma/boxing) or pro powerlifting. Sacrifices have to be made to achieve your goals. I know it's a big decision but it's been my dream since I was a little kid and I'm fully dedicated to getting it and take full responsibility for anything that may go wrong. I'm not using it to get girls like 99% of the gear users, it's pretty much a necessity to get my goals

I agree wholeheartedly. People who take this crap never give any thought to what may happen down the road. There are guys in the gym who talk about shooting up like it is as common as eating a donut for breakfast. It just makes me laugh. Plenty of naturals are just as good or better.

Nattys aren't anywhere near as good as juicers. The human body is pathetic and can't do anything near what gear can do. You can take 10-15 years of natty training and put it into 3-5 years.

I seen a dude get huge on tren from BSN called no-xpode? Iam sure he was using other gear too. He bought up alot of it when it was still being sold like 3 years ago. I think it was a pro hormone but on the label it said use onlt for 4 weeks. Sounds like a roid to me since and my friend said his stick stopped working and his two little friends got smaller not good!! If I was going to take anything I would go Winstrol-v to cut up and then go Test and that's it HGH makes dudes look too freaky. Going to try and bench 280, 285, 290 each for 15 reps.

No explode is a preworkout. It just has caffeine and other stims in it. Maybe he used a ph but those are stupid and there's no point in doing them. Winny messes your joints up too much, don't wanna mess with that. Yea you're right hgh makes that 3d look bbers have today. tren is supposed to be magic and I can't wait to use it one day.

If he's really done his research (which he has said) he'll be just fine. Like any drug, the biggest danger is in abuse. If it's done properly, intelligently, and with medical supervision (at least inform your GP that you're doing it) then it can be done safely and effectively without destroying yourself anymore than long term drinking, smoking, or other drug use.

Gym bros that talk about shooting up in the gym probably do not fall into the category of intelligent users

T has some extravagant goals he wants to reach, which realistically WILL require the use of PEDS to accomplish unless he is in the top .1% of the genetic freak pool (like the kid I posted earlier, who might very well be on drugs and just beat the test)

Yea I've been looking at them since I was 16 or 17 so a solid 4-5 years now. Finally someone that actually knows gear instead of repeating what the media says. I got blood tests and pharma grade stuff so I'm all set. Multiple opinions on what I'm planning with all that research so I'm good to go. I could pm you if you needed proof but I'm 100% sure I'll recover fine. I would never risk my endocrine system without fully researching the crap out of it.

Itagaki
01-22-2013, 03:20 PM
Yea I've been looking at them since I was 16 or 17 so a solid 4-5 years now. Finally someone that actually knows gear instead of repeating what the media says. I got blood tests and pharma grade stuff so I'm all set. Multiple opinions on what I'm planning with all that research so I'm good to go. I could pm you if you needed proof but I'm 100% sure I'll recover fine. I would never risk my endocrine system without fully researching the crap out of it.

Hazard of the sport. I've become utterly disillusioned about PEDs since watching Bigger, Faster, Stronger and after hearing some inside information about olympic weightlifters of the past and present.

It's good to hear that you're going the right route with this, blood work and getting pharmaceutical grade stuff. Probably more expensive that way but ultimately will be much better than getting it from the shady guy at the gym

T1000
01-22-2013, 08:53 PM
Hazard of the sport. I've become utterly disillusioned about PEDs since watching Bigger, Faster, Stronger and after hearing some inside information about olympic weightlifters of the past and present.

It's good to hear that you're going the right route with this, blood work and getting pharmaceutical grade stuff. Probably more expensive that way but ultimately will be much better than getting it from the shady guy at the gym

Reality sucks haha. Once I found out how limited the human body is at putting on muscle and how practically every pro athlete is on something I started researching them. BTW pulled 455 for 1 today mixed grip and chalk at 165lbs. Trying to hit 500 natty now.

Itagaki
01-22-2013, 09:33 PM
Reality sucks haha. Once I found out how limited the human body is at putting on muscle and how practically every pro athlete is on something I started researching them. BTW pulled 455 for 1 today mixed grip and chalk at 165lbs. Trying to hit 500 natty now.

Damn...makes me wish I could deadlift more. Based on typical squat:deadlift numbers, I should be capable of pulling mid 400s or so, I just never get to train it.

dyldore
01-22-2013, 10:08 PM
When I was working out a few months ago I repped 170lbs, 4 sets of 10. I could do 200lbs once. I weighed 175lbs. Idk what I could do now, a big chest is useless in tennis so I stopped lifting heavy.

Rickson
01-23-2013, 07:35 AM
Freddy, hit me up on the email when you get a chance.

FastFreddy
01-24-2013, 06:49 AM
Tomorrow going to try 280, 285 and 290. Tuesday I just rested my shoulder and just did 265 for 3 sets and took addvil twice.

FastFreddy
01-25-2013, 01:28 PM
Just got back from the gym. First set put up 280 for 15 then did 285 then 290 sweet. Could have gone for more but since I have no spot I will move to the power cage so not to find my limit and get pinned with the weight. My goal is 305. Love to put up 3 plates(315) for 15 reps.

brianb76
01-25-2013, 05:42 PM
I don't go heavy anymore, just high reps. I do 185 lbs ten times, and then burn out on 135 lbs 25 times. Repet 3 times.

GuyClinch
01-26-2013, 02:17 AM
Tennis players would be better off with neutral grip dumbell press. Save your shoulders man..

If you are built right and use good technique - sure you can bench. But lots of tennis players have long arms and poor flexibility (especially thoracic) and run the risk of ruining themselves with benching..

Its not like you can't get stronger with heavy dumbells. Dumbell at 120lbs each is no joke.. As for steriods - perfectly safe in theory as they can corrrect natural shortages.

But. In practice you have to be a friggin chemist and have a doctor to monitor your cycles dosage and recovery drugs and stuff...and thats just to not screw yourself up in the shorterm.

This is why plenty of bodybuilders are actually smart. You got to be to work that stuff out. It's pretty complicated to do it right..

And they still seem to die young - as do professional wrestlers... (another steriod abusing group).. Leave the roids for people like aids patients who actually need em.

Rickson
01-26-2013, 10:39 AM
T, if only women knew what you did about how the human body is limited in the amount of muscle it can gain. When I was a trainer, I'd see many women in the office talking about how they didn't want their muscles to get too big. I would ask them if they ever had huge muscles before and their response would usually be no. I'd follow up by telling them they had nothing to worry about.

r2473
01-26-2013, 12:09 PM
T, if only women knew what you did about how the human body is limited in the amount of muscle it can gain. When I was a trainer, I'd see many women in the office talking about how they didn't want their muscles to get too big. I would ask them if they ever had huge muscles before and their response would usually be no. I'd follow up by telling them they had nothing to worry about.

Are you able to train women to crack coconuts with their thighs?

Relinquis
01-26-2013, 01:10 PM
you guys bench so much, I'm surprised you can even play tennis.

no rotator cuff or, for the bigger guys, movement and stamina problems on court?

Rickson
01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
I haven't worked as a personal trainer in years, r2.

FastFreddy
01-27-2013, 08:03 AM
you guys bench so much, I'm surprised you can even play tennis.

no rotator cuff or, for the bigger guys, movement and stamina problems on court?

Just look at the A-train he benched 300 @170 and is still going strong on the senior tour. Benching did not affect his strokes nor mine just made them stronger when my feet were not in position. I could hit winners 6 feet behind the baseline falling backwards.

Relinquis
01-27-2013, 03:11 PM
sorry, who is "a-train"*?

i see your point, though I would have though working out your legs and doing movement exercises would be more important. Isn't there a risk that focusing on the bench press might make a tennis player unbalanced? That his back and rotator cuff muscles aren't as strong.


* I'm not trying to be smart, I don't know all the nicknames.

Rickson
01-27-2013, 03:55 PM
I think it's Andre...

qwertre
01-27-2013, 04:39 PM
I normally start at 95, then work my way up to 115. I'm a youngling, 6'3", 165, so not exactly ripped. :P

qwertre
01-27-2013, 04:40 PM
And FastFreddy and Rickson's profile pics are wigging me out so bad. I keep thinking these stick thin girls can bench over 300 pounds, haha.

FastFreddy
01-27-2013, 06:21 PM
sorry, who is "a-train"*?

i see your point, though I would have though working out your legs and doing movement exercises would be more important. Isn't there a risk that focusing on the bench press might make a tennis player unbalanced? That his back and rotator cuff muscles aren't as strong.


* I'm not trying to be smart, I don't know all the nicknames.

Both r important when I played hockey and tennis I just lifted 5 movements clean press, deadlifts, stepups, bentover rows and bench press. To be a great at bench u need a strong upperback. Most tennis don't know very much about weight lifting. I trained a few junior tennis players and had to deal with their coaches. Both thought they knew about lifting. They thought to just throw weightlifting on top of all their training which why most weight lifting programs don't work. It just causing them to over train not increase their strength and get hurt. I was thinking to myself just stick to playing and teaching tennis. I found most people don't train their rear delts enuff. The whole muscle balance thing is over blown. I have not seen or read anything that states that muscle imblance reduces or prevents or increase muscle performance. It keeps alot of PT dudes working

FastFreddy
01-27-2013, 06:22 PM
I think it's Andre...

U R correct o great one !!

FastFreddy
01-27-2013, 06:22 PM
And FastFreddy and Rickson's profile pics are wigging me out so bad. I keep thinking these stick thin girls can bench over 300 pounds, haha.

Maybe they r both t-girls lol!!

jhhachamp
01-27-2013, 08:01 PM
And FastFreddy and Rickson's profile pics are wigging me out so bad. I keep thinking these stick thin girls can bench over 300 pounds, haha.

haha, i was thinking the same thing.