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View Full Version : Revolution, companies making rackets with real SPECS!


amadextor
02-01-2005, 12:22 PM
IT's wishful thinking, on my part, but I REALLY WANT TO GET OUT OF THIS MATRIX, I AM TIRED OF ENIGMA... BEING naive cunsumer, living in this "cruel capitalistic society..., WHY WOULDN'T COMPANIES MAKE FRAMES WITH ACTUAL SPECS USED BY PROS?

Safins won AO, why wouldn't Head make a frame with HIS SPECS, weight, flex, balance? How much would you pay for that? $300-500-800?

Too many people are obsessed with specs, (at least on these boards)! Could we all be finally and eternaly satisfied with at least one company coming up first to fight this matrix?

Are racket companies stupid? I don't think so, do they think that most of us too naive and believe that what we buy, is actual racket used by a pro? IT'd be a great national poll done by USPTA for example on that matter...

At least with Babolat: seem to have no paint jobs, lead is visible...

PrestigeClassic
02-01-2005, 01:28 PM
I'd pay $3.00 for a package of lead tape. Safin's mass/balance/swingweight aren't that much different from a retail PC. Like a retail PC with less than half an ounce between the head and handle.

amadextor
02-01-2005, 01:59 PM
All right, most of us do that already, how about Fed's racket, will we ever find out what is it really made of??? By the way, you think Safin could've won AO with actual Prestige LM with his lead setup???

gustavo33
02-01-2005, 02:46 PM
because we couldnt play with his racquet
think of sampras.. it was like 400 grams

david aames
02-01-2005, 04:20 PM
Thread #? on the matter? Aren't you people ever tired?

Listen, NOBODY cares about Safin's racquet except for the few regulars who visit that section of the board, that's not a market. A thread on Miskyna's clivage will grab more interest on those very boards, pal.

david aames
02-01-2005, 04:24 PM
Yeah? How do you know?

What will it take for you to stop bringing out the Sampras' example every single time? The guy was a freak of nature, no other pro had a racquet that heavy. Kapish?

because we couldnt play with his racquet
think of sampras.. it was like 400 grams

ollinger
02-01-2005, 05:02 PM
Yes, you should have access to the same spec racquet that Safin (or whoever) uses because, after all, not having it is the only thing that keeps you from being able to play like him.
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Young Pete
02-01-2005, 10:39 PM
Try to think of these racquets as highly modified racing cars like to touring cars or high performance rally cars and even f1 cars..... ALTHOUGH THEY MIGHT LOOK THE SAME AS EVERYDAY CARS....UNDER THE HOOD ITS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BALLGAME....BUT WE CONSUMERS CAN ALWAYS TRY TO GET THE CLOSEST THING FROM WHAT THE PROS USE BY SEARCHING AROUND THESE BOARDS AND KEEPING AN EYE OUT FOR MORE INFO.....

SO....DON'T LOSE HOPE...ENJOY WHAT YOU HAVE AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS THE CLOSEST TO WHAT THE PROS USE.....

I MYSELF HAVE PLAYED WITH A ST. VINCENT WHICH I CONSIDER THE BEST EVER MADE BUT I SURELY CAN'T PLAY IT USING LEADED OUT BY SAMPRAS SPECS OF 14 OZ. OR 400 GRAMS.........

barry
02-02-2005, 05:15 AM
I think Federer or Safin could beat most people on this board with a wooden racket. It isn't the racket which makes them great players, but other abilities.

LSee19
02-02-2005, 06:46 AM
Sometimes I believe some people think that they can play like FedEx or Safin if they mod their racquets to their specs. Hey, I am not knocking people down for trying to find out the specs for many of the top players, nor am I flaming people who want some discontinued racquets to come back. But sometimes I think it gets really ridiculous, such as the numerous posts on FedEx's racquet. Even when a professional racquet technician like Thomas Martinez or Richard Parnell posts the real facts, he gets told by some other moron that he is wrong, even though he's never even come close to stringing even a kiddie racquet in his whole life (stringing with your Klippermate for 6 months doesn't count either.) This has been one of the major problems plaguing this forum. Remember people, these guys are the best insiders we have regarding the latest equipment used by the pros. Without them, I would not have discovered things like Luxilon Strings, Hybrid String setups and other racquet customization techniques. Many of those customization techniques that I have discovered I use today. So for once and for all, this message is for those flamers (and you know who you are,) stop criticizing and start listening!

When people think that they can play like FedEx, Safin or any other pro because they have exactly the same racquet as them, it's complete STUPIDITY! You need to get your butt off the computer chair, get on the court and practice, and on top of that go to the gym and work out for two hours. Talent is only maybe 1/2 of the equation of becoming a good player, you need to put in the time and effort to become an awesome player like the top players in the world.

Again, i'm not trying to hate on people who get the pro specs or people who actually use them. I just can't stand people who complain about not getting exactly what the pro's use because of the that the pros have it, and they can't (even though it probably won't suit their games whatsoever.) Then these people try to plead to manufacturers and claim there's a HUGE market for these racquets.

Be realistic people

Aykhan Mammadov
02-02-2005, 11:39 AM
I want also to answer to the post No: 1.

Companies, for example Prince still produces Prince Original Grafit ( POG) which was used by young Agassi. Wilson produces for TW ProStaff Original 85 ( Sampras).

Say once Wilson produced something used by Pete. It became also popular among some players who is able to play with and want to play with an exactly same racquet as Pete. Say Wilson sold 10 millions such racquets. But it is not enough for Wilson to survive and to earn money. Next year he must sell another 10 millions and even more. To whom to sell ? He can paint the same racquet in another color, and attract 100 thousand people from the same group and a some new players.

But if Wilson tells that it invented new technology, paints in another colour, slightly modifies spec and announces that it invented something better then it may attract again say 5-6 millions from the same 10 millions also.

Now in order to support sales of the new line it gives to Pete the same racquet he used but with the new paintjob. It seems to spectators that Pete plays with new spec and with the new racquet but the racquet is the same.

It is not profitable to keep original Pro racquet very long time in production. Why? Since you should sell the same quantity every year, even increasing quantity. You should attract not only new customers but also the same buyers. So you should announce that you have something new and better.

From above reasoning it is clear (1) why Pros and just those who have an agreement with racquet manufacturer use paintjob (2) in some cases original Pro racquet is still in production (3) probably it is not profitable to keep original Pro racquet very long time in production.

amadextor
02-02-2005, 11:59 AM
Got your reasoning, it sounds right, next question is, why pros use older frames, are they actually BETTER RACKETS? AND inherently can't be improved and the logic of newer and better technology is "bogus", so it seems that there is a ULTIMATE FORMULA that can not and will not be improved(1)..... I can't agree with assumption that pros are used to frames they used when they were kids and therefore can't adapt to newer frames, ....look at all pros who used to play with wooden and aluminum rackets, guess what, they don't use them anymore....Do you think in the future we will still be talking about FAKE paint jobs, masking grafite rackets, that would be made of NEWEST CYBER MATERIALS???(2)

Steve Huff
02-02-2005, 07:01 PM
Companies can't just give out the pro's specs etc because most of the pro's don't want them given out. Like the race car analogy, pro's tweak their rackets to give them an advantage. If a company gave out the specs, or made exact replicas, those pro's wouldn't stay with that company. They'd go to a company that, per a contract, would prohibit them from giving out the racket's specs. If you're a company president, do you really want the best players leaving your company for another company. What does that say about your company then?

Are new technologies better than the old stuff that pro's seem to use? Probably. In 20 years, you probably won't see too many pro's using PS 85s. There will be a whole new generation of rackets out by then. About the only thing that's for certain is that Benjamin (Triple B) will still be demoing all of them.

BreakPoint
02-02-2005, 10:41 PM
What will it take for you to stop bringing out the Sampras' example every single time? The guy was a freak of nature, no other pro had a racquet that heavy. Kapish?

Well, I guess that must mean that everyone that ever played with a wood racquet must have been a freak of nature then, including all the women and children that played with wood racquets. At the time, I never thought that 12 year old playing with a 14+oz. wood racquet on a public court was a "freak of nature". BTW, Don Budge used to play with a 16oz. wood racquet.

gregraven
02-03-2005, 04:01 AM
(snip) WHY WOULDN'T COMPANIES MAKE FRAMES WITH ACTUAL SPECS USED BY PROS? (snip)

It may surprise you to learn that there are knowledgeable, talented persons working for many of the racquet manufacturers. It may also surprise you to learn that they playtest and test-market a lot of racquets that are never offered for sale, and that those that do make it to the retail outlets are often modified from their first incarnation, based on the results of their playtests and test marketing. It should come as no surprise to anyone that a modern racquet weighing 380+ grams is not going to sell very well. As others have noted, you can get a Head Prestige or Prince POG or Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85 and have a "pro racquet." If you want something more modern, you can get a Wilson nSix-One Tour, which is virtually indistinguishable from the actual racquet that Federer uses. If none of this is good enough for you, Bosworth will custom-make a frame to your (or any other) specifications -- I think he charges something like $400 per.

GOO LOW YOOK
02-03-2005, 03:55 PM
In response to LSee19's post I think he/she should mind his/her own business! I feel that I can totally be a better player by using the exact specs as the pros. I wanna know what racquet and setup LSee19 uses and why?

Nyl
02-03-2005, 08:18 PM
in respond to the old rac. are better thread, i think old rac are not necessarily better than modern rac., that's because the pros now grown up using rac like PS6.0 , prestige classic and POG..... if u look at those new generation player, nadal is using aeropro drive, andy roddick is using PD, sharapova is using TT hornet ( i guessed under the paint, or it could be real shark).....so as time goes on, PS, POG n prestige are gonna be rarer to be seen (noticed) on the tour.....

and for the pro's spec thread, i dun think safin is using the rac that is given straight from the company.... they juice the rac w/ lead tape n stuff..... though i think the racquet companies should retail the pro stock racquet, which makes us an option if we want the pro's stock spec or clubplayer's spec .......

one more thing regarding safin's racquet, do u guys remember he was using dunlop 200G back then... n then he went to a black painted rac w/ dunlop stecil which was spotted a head racuqet (unknown model), n then he went i-prestige paintjob and now LM paintjob..... do u guys think he's using the head prestige classic ? or wut ?

TommyGun
02-04-2005, 06:45 AM
Biggest issue is that those of us here who are interested in pro's specs are a minor portion of the market. If we all bought enough every year we could get them to make racquets with the same exact specs as a Sampras or Agassi. Problem is, more intermediates and recreational players buy each year then us "players" and therefore they use the player endorsement and image to move discounter frames.

Again, for those of us who play, a company like Vantage or Bosworth is really the answer...that way we can be our own heroes and maybe someone will want a stick that has our specs...

Aykhan Mammadov
02-04-2005, 12:17 PM
I don't agree with 2 statements:

Post 13. It doesnt convince me that Pros spec are so secret that they cover it tightly. Because there is nothing special in that specifications to cover, there is not scientifical discovery. It is only the matter of personal taste. I don't think that somebody from PROs thinks that Federer or Agassi plays good because of the spec of their racquets and that somebody is trying to get those spec-s. Spec-s of PRO racquet is something like fashion preference, it is meaningless to cover it.

Post 18 and 15.

First of all, the question is not that some crazy fanatic is looking for racquet with just the same spec that say Fed uses. Even me being fanatic of tennis give the prevalence to my personal ability and taste. The question is the following:

Pros custom spec-s don't differ from manufactured ordinary racquet spec so much. Say if Tour strung is 360 gramms the Pros don't play with 450. Not. A few grams heavier, some leads in some points of the head of racquet, a little changed balance and etc.

So the question was: if custom spec are so close to those in serial production why not to produce racquets just with completely PROs spec not changing them slightly ? If Fed's spec is almost nSix-1 as you wrote in post 15 then the question is why not to produce nsix-1 from the scratch just with his spec. ?

The last thing. I think you underestimate. Many rookies turn to advanced player say after 3-5 years demanding player racquet. The spec of those player racquets are similar to Pro spec. So their market can't be so small and just so player racquets are still in production and in many variations. Again the question is that why some of many player racquets don't coinside for 100% with PRO racquet. I answered that in post 11.

Aykhan Mammadov
02-04-2005, 12:31 PM
Got your reasoning, it sounds right, next question is, why pros use older frames, are they actually BETTER RACKETS? AND inherently can't be improved and the logic of newer and better technology is "bogus", so it seems that there is a ULTIMATE FORMULA that can not and will not be improved(1)..... I can't agree with assumption that pros are used to frames they used when they were kids and therefore can't adapt to newer frames, ....look at all pros who used to play with wooden and aluminum rackets, guess what, they don't use them anymore....Do you think in the future we will still be talking about FAKE paint jobs, masking grafite rackets, that would be made of NEWEST CYBER MATERIALS???(2)


Amadextor, you got what I wanted to tell. Good. But I didn't write that slightly modified spec or new racquets are worser than old. The manufacturer gives to Pete his old racquet having painted it into new colors of the new line just because Pete wants so, this is his personal taste. And even manufacturer regards new line better than old and may stop production of old line. Hence, of course, not all PROs use paintjobs, only those who have contracts to do so.

After that there is another point. Manufacturers in order to survive must invent every day something new. Like Intel. You may see that 2 days ago was Titanium, 1 day ago Intelligence, today Liquidmetal, tomorrow already new line Agassi used at AO ( didn't remember the name). In the first, Pros can't change every day their racquet so they have to use paintjob for advertising. In the second, racquet is not such a difficult mechanism or electronics to be able permanently to improve it. Do you believe that these many new technologies appearing every day really make sense ?