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View Full Version : Mary Carillo: "The US Open is much faster than Wimbledon"


canuckfan
09-01-2008, 01:03 PM
She just said that on the CBS Broadcast of the Nadal-Querrey match. No contradiction from Jmac. Many people have noticed this over the past 2-3 years, but this is the first time i heard a commentator actually say it.

superstition
09-01-2008, 01:11 PM
I wonder what tournament has the fastest hard courts?

There was a Davis Cup match where Roddick hit a ridiculous number of aces against Llodra in the first two sets. The commentator said the court was very fast. I don't remember where that was.

I've read that back when tennis was mostly played on grass the American hard court tournaments out west were very fast and low bouncing.

stormholloway
09-01-2008, 01:13 PM
It's the indoor courts that tend to be the fastest.

I'm not so convinced that the US Open is faster than Wimbledon.

Challenger
09-01-2008, 01:16 PM
I wonder what tournament has the fastest hard courts?

There was a Davis Cup match where Roddick hit a ridiculous number of aces against Llodra in the first two sets. The commentator said the court was very fast. I don't remember where that was.

I've read that back when tennis was mostly played on grass the American hard court tournaments out west were very fast and low bouncing.

I believe that was in Winston Salem, NC.

Carillo also just said Australian Open court plays more like clay than hardcourts during the Querrey-Nadal match.

stormholloway
09-01-2008, 01:18 PM
I think she said Wimbledon is closer to clay than it is to the US Open courts. That's what I heard.

Cenc
09-01-2008, 01:20 PM
dont say it too early. we have to wait for official response from nadalfreak

drakulie
09-01-2008, 01:22 PM
dont say it too early. we have to wait for official response from nadalfreak

LOL. he is already complaining about this comment in the Querey vs rafa thread:

When are these commentators going to get that it's not the speed of the court that bothers Nadal? It's the movement and how well everyone else moves on these courts. Querrey would not be able to play this way on grass. Wimbledon is faster than the US Open. US Open is still fast though and the combination does hurt Nadal the most.

Challenger
09-01-2008, 01:27 PM
I think she said Wimbledon is closer to clay than it is to the US Open courts. That's what I heard.

During the Querrey-Nadal match today? She was very clearly talking about the AO. She even said it had more "grip" on the court than USO, which makes it easier slam for Nadal.

drakulie
09-01-2008, 01:39 PM
^^^ she also mentioned wimbledon.

Edinboro
09-01-2008, 01:44 PM
Whats the difference between the US Open court and Australian Court? Is one faster or slicker?

Noveson
09-01-2008, 01:56 PM
I wish there was a concrete way to measure this. Well there probably is but I wish we actually knew. Odd for a commentator to actually say it.

Anybody else hoping for Federer defeating Nadal in the final? I like both players, but normally cheer for Nadal in head to head matchups. This time I hope Federer ends the season on a high.

ACE of Hearts
09-01-2008, 02:00 PM
Oh plz, this is not even ground breaking news!!!The surface at wimbledon is a joke.The bounces are ridiculous.I been saying that for the last couple of years.

edberg505
09-01-2008, 02:13 PM
Nonsense, I've already compiled the stats comparing......












Oops my bad, go ahead and finish Nadal_Freak.

Noveson
09-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Oh plz, this is not even ground breaking news!!!The surface at wimbledon is a joke.The bounces are ridiculous.I been saying that for the last couple of years.

I think we all know this(READ: not Nadalfreak) but a commentator actually said something for once. I don't think Wimbledon is a joke, it just isn't fast anymore. Nadal still won, on the same surface that Federer dominated the years before.

NamRanger
09-01-2008, 02:25 PM
I think we all know this(READ: not Nadalfreak) but a commentator actually said something for once. I don't think Wimbledon is a joke, it just isn't fast anymore. Nadal still won, on the same surface that Federer dominated the years before.


It's definitely not the same surface that Federer won on. AELTC says one thing, but we all know they do all sorts of dumb stuff. I mean, they only changed the surface because of ONE match. Geez. How stupid is that? I mean, Goran and Sampras would be boring on any surface, even on clay.



BBC did a statistical analysis comparing 2003 to 2008, and Federer's serve in 2003 was faster from the bounce, and much lower, while the 2008 service had a 10 mph drop off and bounced much higher.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 02:28 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=78a09d9e4b19e0b7ab1eab3e9fa335cac4eb78e8 a6f09ea3 is the data I collected up. It's not even close. 5% break difference year after year. Drakulie got my quote. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=207765

PROTENNIS63
09-01-2008, 02:41 PM
Mary was actually correct.


*I hate her BTW*

Babb
09-01-2008, 02:44 PM
Whats the difference between the US Open court and Australian Court? Is one faster or slicker?

The new Australian Open courts are supposed to be a little slower and have more bounce to them than the US Open courts. That is my understanding.

NamRanger
09-01-2008, 02:44 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=78a09d9e4b19e0b7ab1eab3e9fa335cac4eb78e8 a6f09ea3 is the data I collected up. It's not even close. 5% break difference year after year. Drakulie got my quote. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=207765


After looking at your break percentage theory which makes no sense, it's pretty funny to see that I'm about to blow up your entire theory into the ground.


Australian Open 2008 1st 2nd 3rd 4th QTR Semi Final

Return Games Won 515 247 125 61 26 11 6


Wimbledon 2008 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Qtr Semi Final

Return Games won 379 200 87 50 31 8 5



Considering the fact that the Australian Open is one of the SLOWEST hardcourts in the world, how do you explain the fact that outside the 1st round (which always has huge deviations in between every slam) that the numbers are very comparable.

Nadal_Monfils
09-01-2008, 02:54 PM
I think she said Wimbledon is closer to clay than it is to the US Open courts. That's what I heard.

Yea, she said both. It seems like people remember how fast the grass used to be and then start exaggerating and calling the current grass "green clay" and such.

seffina
09-01-2008, 03:10 PM
She is entitled to her opinion. I don't think Wimbledon is any where near clay. It is definitely slower, but not like clay.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 04:33 PM
After looking at your break percentage theory which makes no sense, it's pretty funny to see that I'm about to blow up your entire theory into the ground.


Australian Open 2008 1st 2nd 3rd 4th QTR Semi Final

Return Games Won 515 247 125 61 26 11 6


Wimbledon 2008 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Qtr Semi Final

Return Games won 379 200 87 50 31 8 5



Considering the fact that the Australian Open is one of the SLOWEST hardcourts in the world, how do you explain the fact that outside the 1st round (which always has huge deviations in between every slam) that the numbers are very comparable.
Australian Open wasn't that slow in the second week. And your stats are pretty weak. My stats show a lot more evidence since as it considers the length of the match unlike yours.

Turning Pro
09-01-2008, 04:45 PM
New Aus Open is at least a medium paced court. It's not slow at all. Rebound ace before it was layered with Plexicushion is however quite slow.

stormholloway
09-01-2008, 04:46 PM
She is entitled to her opinion. I don't think Wimbledon is any where near clay. It is definitely slower, but not like clay.

But isn't this quantifiable? I can say that it's my opinion that dogs lay eggs but I'd be wrong.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 04:48 PM
New Aus Open is at least a medium paced court. It's not slow at all. Rebound ace before it was layered with Plexicushion is however quite slow.
Agreed. Very similar to the US Open. I actually think Nadal's spin bounces higher than at the Australian Open.

Bottle Rocket
09-01-2008, 05:06 PM
I wish there was a concrete way to measure this.

There is:

http://www.itftennis.com/technical/research/lab/courts/

Andres
09-01-2008, 05:24 PM
I wonder what tournament has the fastest hard courts?
Cincinatti, AMS Paris and TMC seem to be the fastest hardcourts around these days.

zagor
09-01-2008, 05:27 PM
Cincinatti, AMS Paris and TMC seem to be the fastest hardcourts around these days.

I don't think Paris is among fastest hardcourts,I remember Nalbandian saying last year before the final with Nadal that Paris is slower than Madrid.

Andres
09-01-2008, 05:34 PM
I actually saw it faster than Madrid, but I'll take Nalbandian's word over mine :p

But it's certainly among the fastest hardcourts around. I miss the good ol' carpet :cry:

drakulie
09-01-2008, 05:43 PM
The fastest court right now (according to Tennis&music & Nadal Freak) is Roland Garros.

Fee
09-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Ted Robinson: Is the US Open faster than Wimbledon now?

John McEnroe: Absolutely. No doubt about it.

(just now on USA before the Murray-Wawrinka match).

drakulie
09-01-2008, 05:55 PM
Ted Robinson: Is the US Open faster than Wimbledon now?

John McEnroe: Absolutely. No doubt about it.

(just now on USA before the Murray-Wawrinka match).

Yup. He, along with many other former grand slam champions who have actually played on the stuff have been saying it for a while now.

Of course, they have no idea what they are talking about, since they have actually played on the stuff. :roll:

superman1
09-01-2008, 06:09 PM
She said that it's closer to clay than it is to the US Open courts. McEnroe kind of scoffed at that...I'm not sure if he completely believed it, but he didn't say anything. He just made a little scoff sound, like "well...I don't know about that..."

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:09 PM
I heard her specifically say that Wimbledon is slower than US Open!

drakulie
09-01-2008, 06:13 PM
She said that it's closer to clay than it is to the US Open courts. McEnroe kind of scoffed at that...I'm not sure if he completely believed it, but he didn't say anything. He just made a little scoff sound, like "well...I don't know about that..."

She was obviously referring to the bounce/height of the ball.

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:14 PM
Wimbledon 2008
Top 10 Aces:
Lopez - 5 matches - 110
Ancic - 5 matches - 83
Federer - 5 matches - 70
Cilic - 4 matches - 65
Tipsarevic - 4 matches - 65
Murray - 5 matches - 60
Safin - 5 matches - 56
Reynolds - 3 matches - 54
Hewitt - 4 matches - 49
Tursunov - 3 matches - 47

Yeah, the grass-surface at Wimbledon plays exactly like clay, huh?

Aces:
I.Karlovic - 94
G.Muller - 86 (no wonder he is upsetting people)
M.Fish - 58
N.Almagro - 54
C.Guccione - 51
S.Querrey - 48
R.Kendrick - 47
J.Melzer - 43
R.Federer - 41
B.Reynolds - 40

Where is Roddick?

Percentage:
F.Verdasco - 76 %
R.Sweeting - 75 %
S.Warburg - 75 %
J.Monaco - 73 %
V.Hanescu - 72 %
I.Kunitsyn - 71 %
R.Federer - 71 %
J.Isner - 70 %
F.Serra - 70 %
J.Chardy - 70 %

Federer is going to be holding really easy if he serves like that.


Look at the two stats.

Lopez hit 22 aces per match on average.

Karlovic hit 31 aces per match on average.


Just using stats against you NF.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:15 PM
The commentators are really annoying today. Nadal got broken 6 times in all of Wimbledon and he got broken 4 times today alone. The slower courts helped Querrey return serve as well as it helped Nadal break Querrey. I don't get why people keep saying US Open is faster than Wimbledon. Does it make them feel proud to say the US Open (our country) has the fastest courts?

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:18 PM
Look at the two stats.

Lopez hit 22 aces per match on average.

Karlovic hit 31 aces per match on average.


Just using stats against you NF.
Karlovic always aces a ton. He lost early in Wimbledon. He doesn't like the movement on grass. Too tall and off balanced.

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:19 PM
The commentators are really annoying today. Nadal got broken 6 times in all of Wimbledon and he got broken 4 times today alone. The slower courts helped Querrey return serve as well as it helped Nadal break Querrey. I don't get why people keep saying US Open is faster than Wimbledon. Does it make them feel proud to say the US Open (our country) has the fastest courts?

Maybe because Nadal plays better at Wimbledon? Because a truer bounce affects his opponents? Because serves alone don't determine breaks!

Fee
09-01-2008, 06:21 PM
The commentators are really annoying today. Nadal got broken 6 times in all of Wimbledon and he got broken 4 times today alone. The slower courts helped Querrey return serve as well as it helped Nadal break Querrey. I don't get why people keep saying US Open is faster than Wimbledon. Does it make them feel proud to say the US Open (our country) has the fastest courts?

They say the USO is faster than Wimbledon because it is. It was last year as well.

drakulie
09-01-2008, 06:22 PM
The commentators are really annoying today. Nadal got broken 6 times in all of Wimbledon and he got broken 4 times today alone. The slower courts helped Querrey return serve as well as it helped Nadal break Querrey.

he got broken so much because his serve was awful, and he was hitting some second serves at 80 mph.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:25 PM
Maybe because Nadal plays better at Wimbledon? Because a truer bounce affects his opponents? Because serves alone don't determine breaks!
The speed of the court determines how many breaks there are. There is very little deviation on the height of bounce from here and Wimbledon. Wimbledon also seems to have pretty true bounces these days. The difference is the Americans and many other players move much better on hardcourts and are able to get in position to be more aggressive as well as being better defensively.

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:28 PM
For Nadal_Freak, Ivo only hit 23 aces in the Wimbledon match.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:29 PM
For Nadal_Freak, Ivo only hit 23 aces in the Wimbledon match.
One match is not enough info to determine the speed. No surprise he lost with that stat. Ivo gets hurt the most by the movement on grass.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:31 PM
They say the USO is faster than Wimbledon because it is. It was last year as well.
Not even close to Wimbledon. Just another way to discredit Nadal's achievements. If he wins the US Open, I guess everyone will be saying it is blue clay. lol

JW10S
09-01-2008, 06:32 PM
The USO courts are faster than Wimbledon...

drakulie
09-01-2008, 06:33 PM
Not even close to Wimbledon.

Finally you admit the US open is way faster than Wimbledon.

shavenyak
09-01-2008, 06:33 PM
The commentators are really annoying today. Nadal got broken 6 times in all of Wimbledon and he got broken 4 times today alone. The slower courts helped Querrey return serve as well as it helped Nadal break Querrey. I don't get why people keep saying US Open is faster than Wimbledon. Does it make them feel proud to say the US Open (our country) has the fastest courts?

Nadal got broken so many times today because he played like ****.

Andres
09-01-2008, 06:34 PM
I love how you keep altering your arguments to fit your own explanations.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:34 PM
Wimbledon is faster than US Open...

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:35 PM
I love how you keep altering your arguments to fit your own explanations.
I have not altered anything. The reasons Nadal struggles more on hard is because.
1. Truer bounces
2. More traction
3. Rougher on joints

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:41 PM
One match is not enough info to determine the speed. No surprise he lost with that stat. Ivo gets hurt the most by the movement on grass.

Yet, in a 2/3 set match against Querrey, he hit more aces per set. And yes, it was on hard courts.

Not even close to Wimbledon. Just another way to discredit Nadal's achievements. If he wins the US Open, I guess everyone will be saying it is blue clay. lol

Are you serious? They're the ones that are giving Nadal all the credit in the world, especially John McEnroe!

Fee
09-01-2008, 06:43 PM
Not even close to Wimbledon. Just another way to discredit Nadal's achievements. If he wins the US Open, I guess everyone will be saying it is blue clay. lol

Oh please. This isn't about Nadal except in your head. Now that I think about it, that final between Federer and Roddick was pretty wicked, the ball was skidding everywhere. Same thing last year with Federer and Djokovic. The USO was fast and I think they made it faster to help Roddick. It's looked pretty fast this year too, except for all that wind today.

I was watching a match in the first week of Wimbledon this year, I think it was Wednesday and I could already tell that court was slower. I thought it was just the conditions on that day or perhaps the balls, but the whole event looked much slower and truer than I remember seeing it in years past.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 06:45 PM
Yet, in a 2/3 set match against Querrey, he hit more aces per set. And yes, it was on hard courts.



Are you serious? They're the ones that are giving Nadal all the credit in the world, especially John McEnroe!
The fact is that every year, Wimbledon averages more aces than the US Open. You have to put all 127 matches to really get a close enough stat. Wimbledon constantly has more aces, first serve points won, and less breaks.

Mansewerz
09-01-2008, 06:45 PM
Marat Safin has had better results in Wimbledon than the US Open this year. Come to think of it, better than any other hard court this year. Safin also usually does best at the Aussie open, old one that is.

Also, the more logical idea, he claims it is slower himself. He even thanked the tourney directors for it.

shavenyak
09-01-2008, 06:47 PM
The fact is that every year, Wimbledon averages more aces than the US Open. You have to put all 127 matches to really get a close enough stat. Wimbledon constantly has more aces, first serve points won, and less breaks.

So, then, explain why there has been like 400% more net time at the US Open as compared to Wimbledon this year?

mcenroefan
09-01-2008, 06:47 PM
Not even close to Wimbledon. Just another way to discredit Nadal's achievements. If he wins the US Open, I guess everyone will be saying it is blue clay. lol

Or, more accurately, your attempt to deny the obvious to bolster Nadal's achievements in your own mind. Nadal's acheievements are impressive and stand on their own...he doesn't need any help from you.

The Open hard courts are faster than Wimby.

mcenroefan
09-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Tracy Austin also said the US Open surface is faster than Wimby in her commentary tonight.

She suspected that Wimby decided to change the surface after the Sampras/Goran final in which there were essentially no sustained rallies.

CyBorg
09-01-2008, 06:55 PM
It's fast and it offers a true medium-to-low height bounce. A great opportunity for Federer to win another major.

Safinator_1
09-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Even if Wimbledon decided to change their courts so it is slower, i believe it was a smart move so that the audience can watch more rallies. Boring if some just rips and the other person has no way of getting it.

It's a good decision except for Fed fans who so desperatly so wanted Federer to win a 6th :'( oh well.

Maybe Federer would've won if they reverted back to old courts well guess what there not going to. Deal with it because theres nothing you can do about it.

Nadal_Freak
09-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Tracy Austin also said the US Open surface is faster than Wimby in her commentary tonight.

She suspected that Wimby decided to change the surface after the Sampras/Goran final in which there were essentially no sustained rallies.
I didn't like the commenators beforehand. They are so biased. You can just see it. US Open commentators are the most annoying. Especially Tracy Austin. Winning the French Open and Wimbledon back-to-back is still the biggest achievement. French Open and US Open is not quite as big. Ferrero almost did it though he never did anything at Wimbledon.

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
09-01-2008, 07:59 PM
I didn't like the commenators beforehand. They are so biased. You can just see it. US Open commentators are the most annoying. Especially Tracy Austin. Winning the French Open and Wimbledon back-to-back is still the biggest achievement. French Open and US Open is not quite as big. Ferrero almost did it though he never did anything at Wimbledon.

What makes you so different from these "biased" commentators, NADAL_FREAK? :?

Charlie_Boy
09-01-2008, 08:04 PM
Nadal_Freak......you, as well as others, have been using statistics not even directly related to said surface to say whether it is slower/faster than others.

I find it to be ridiculous.

Nadal_Monfils
09-01-2008, 08:11 PM
The fastest court right now (according to Tennis&music & Nadal Freak) is Roland Garros.

Agreed, it's basically red grass now.

shavenyak
09-01-2008, 10:11 PM
I didn't like the commenators beforehand. They are so biased. You can just see it. US Open commentators are the most annoying. Especially Tracy Austin. Winning the French Open and Wimbledon back-to-back is still the biggest achievement. French Open and US Open is not quite as big. Ferrero almost did it though he never did anything at Wimbledon.

Pot calling the kettle black.

No, Omarosa, it's NOT racist.

stormholloway
09-01-2008, 10:16 PM
What makes you so different from these "biased" commentators, NADAL_FREAK? :?

Well, he's not a commentator, for one.

shavenyak
09-01-2008, 10:22 PM
Well, he's not a commentator, for one.

He is, in a sense. He spends a lot of time on here defending all that is Nadal and anything that can even be remotely construed as detracting from Nadal. This is a fairly large tennis site, so his comments are debatably influential.

veritech
09-01-2008, 10:25 PM
i don't remember what match i was watching, but i remember ted robinson asking mcenroe if the USO courts are faster than wimbledon's. mcenroe was clear in saying that wimbledon's is not as quick.

shavenyak
09-01-2008, 10:29 PM
i don't remember what match i was watching, but i remember ted robinson asking mcenroe if the USO courts are faster than wimbledon's. mcenroe was clear in saying that wimbledon's is not as quick.

This brings up a really good point:

Question for Nadal Freak: Why is McEnroe's contention that the USO courts are faster than Wimby invalid?

veritech
09-01-2008, 10:30 PM
Ted Robinson: Is the US Open faster than Wimbledon now?

John McEnroe: Absolutely. No doubt about it.

(just now on USA before the Murray-Wawrinka match).

this is what i remember hearing.

and a while ago, during the tournament where roddick lost to del potro, andy even stated that the USO was faster than wimbledon.

no matter how many numbers you give, or how many theories or arguments, i will still go with the players' opinions rather than mere calculations. the people that have played on the courts are the only people who really know.

stormholloway
09-01-2008, 10:54 PM
I don't really see what it has to do with Nadal. Nadal won Queens, beating some good players, and that was fast grass. He's proven that he can play on anything.

35ft6
09-01-2008, 11:49 PM
People are sliding and squeaking on these hard courts more than ever. Not sure what that indicates. Anybody?

JohnnyCracker
09-02-2008, 02:14 AM
^^^
More technologically advanced microphones? :mrgreen:

The-Champ
09-02-2008, 04:48 AM
Even if Wimbledon decided to change their courts so it is slower, i believe it was a smart move so that the audience can watch more rallies. Boring if some just rips and the other person has no way of getting it.

It's a good decision except for Fed fans who so desperatly so wanted Federer to win a 6th :'( oh well.

Maybe Federer would've won if they reverted back to old courts well guess what there not going to. Deal with it because theres nothing you can do about it.



But the wimbledon court this year is the same as last year's. I don't think they changed it this year.

Turning Pro
09-02-2008, 05:30 AM
Well the thing is Wimbledon and the U.S Open are quite comparable. The U.S Open and Wimbledon are quite evenly matched in normal conditions and during the first week. However the conditions of Wimbledon are usually 'damper'/'cooler' and not as humid as the U.S Open which makes the speed of the court favour slightly in U.S Open's favour. Also the U.S Open will speed up in the second week by quite a bit so maybe that's where people are getting it from.

However, the balls can play a part too but if you have a Wimbledon where the temps reach that of New York or put it in a New York type atmostphere and with the same Balls then Wimbledon is at the very least as quick as the US Open, if not faster.

Eg. Depends on the Predictable British Weather (Very bad this year)