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View Full Version : what's the latest think on weight/reps?


heycal
09-25-2008, 09:32 PM
If my goal is to build muscle, who many reps should I be doing? 6-8? 1-12? What?

How do you choose the ideal weight, anyway? Find a weight you can do about 8 times before failing, and go with that one?

And how many sets, also? I've read that that there are studies that show multiple sets provide no additional gains than doing just one set would, but just to be sure I'll try and do 2 sets of each exercise. (Don't have time or inclination to do much more than 2 anyway.)

heycal
09-26-2008, 01:44 PM
Come on, fellas. Spill it.

snoopy
09-26-2008, 02:42 PM
It is well settled that higher reps at moderate weight is good for building mass whereas higher weight at lower reps is ideal for building strength.

Banger
09-26-2008, 03:16 PM
It is well settled that higher reps at moderate weight is good for building mass whereas higher weight at lower reps is ideal for building strength.

I think you have it the wrong way. I have been lifting for many years and have read lots of bodybuilding mags and never heard of higher reps building more mass. Usually higher reps are for people wanting to trim down. To me though mass is mostly dependant on diet and how many calories/protein you take in. Of course everyones body is different but the majority feel that higher weight and less reps increase mass.

JRstriker12
09-26-2008, 03:18 PM
If my goal is to build muscle, who many reps should I be doing? 6-8? 1-12? What?

How do you choose the ideal weight, anyway? Find a weight you can do about 8 times before failing, and go with that one?

And how many sets, also? I've read that that there are studies that show multiple sets provide no additional gains than doing just one set would, but just to be sure I'll try and do 2 sets of each exercise. (Don't have time or inclination to do much more than 2 anyway.)

One picking weights I heard about two techniques. One is to use e weight that lets you do 10 reps with good form, but that tenth rep should be difficult.

The other is to figure your 1 rep max and periodize your program using a percentage of your max. Figureing your one rep max can be hard if you don't have a spotter, so if you search online, you can find tables that give you an estimate of your 1 rep max based in weight and the number of reps you can accomplish.

As for one set - what I read about those studies is that they studied mostly people who didn't lift before, so if you ar eout of shape, you might see some gains doing one set, but once you reach a certain level of fitness, it's goiong to be hard to see gains, doing just one set.

Mikael
09-26-2008, 03:21 PM
You could build muscle in any rep range, from 2-3 reps to maybe 20 reps... then it depends on number of sets... you need a minimal amount of volume... and obviously, on what you eat! It also depends on your body type. Some body types handle volume better than others.

heycal
09-26-2008, 03:25 PM
One picking weights I heard about two techniques. One is to use e weight that lets you do 10 reps with good form, but that tenth rep should be difficult.

The other is to figure your 1 rep max and periodize your program using a percentage of your max. Figureing your one rep max can be hard if you don't have a spotter, so if you search online, you can find tables that give you an estimate of your 1 rep max based in weight and the number of reps you can accomplish.

As for one set - what I read about those studies is that they studied mostly people who didn't lift before, so if you ar eout of shape, you might see some gains doing one set, but once you reach a certain level of fitness, it's goiong to be hard to see gains, doing just one set.

I'll probably do two sets to split the difference between the 1 set school of thinking and the 3 set, etc, school.

As for reps, I just read somewhere that a good way to figure this out and is find a way that you can fatigues you around 8 reps. Once you can do 12 reps at that weight, increase the weight. Then repeat that formula to make more gains. Seems a simple and sensible approach.

Mikael
09-26-2008, 03:25 PM
The ideal weight depends on what you are trying to accomplish! If you intend to do 10 reps, you could... pick your 15-20 rep max and do explosive work/warm-up/light work out... or pick your 10 rep max and go close to failure/failure... or pick your 8 rep max and go beyond failure (you rerack the weight and then do a couple more reps). There are countless possibilities.

cncretecwbo
09-26-2008, 04:45 PM
heavy weights/low reps are more for strength, while the opposite is for size. there are no definites, though since you will obviously get strength as well on high reps, and size on low reps.

If you want to get REALLY into it, the speed at which you lift the weight is also important, as is the actual exercise and the goal you want to accomplish.

dcottrill
09-26-2008, 05:33 PM
I'll probably do two sets to split the difference between the 1 set school of thinking and the 3 set, etc, school.

As for reps, I just read somewhere that a good way to figure this out and is find a way that you can fatigues you around 8 reps. Once you can do 12 reps at that weight, increase the weight. Then repeat that formula to make more gains. Seems a simple and sensible approach.

This is exactly what I do, and it seems to work for me. But, I am trying to achieve overall fitness, not superhuman strength or massive size.

J011yroger
09-26-2008, 09:14 PM
If you were a NYSC member or I could get you a guest pass, you are welcome to do a couple of my workouts, you might be cured permanantly of ever wanting to go into a gym again.

But mine are obviously for tournament training, not building mass.

J

FastFreddy
09-26-2008, 10:53 PM
Power 1-5 reps heaviest weight possible over 85% of your max
Strength is 5-10 reps Heavy weight no burn muscle failure
Increase muscle size 10-15 reps med weight you will feel the burn in last few.
Muscle endurance 15-20 reps light weight really a waste of time .


Rep time should be 6 seconds per rep 3 on the way up or out and 3 on the way back or 4 on the way out and 2 on the way back. Next time you workout have your buddy time your set I bet most if not all of you are doing 3 seconds per rep way too fast. The only time you want fast and controlled is for powerlifting.

Your muscles will never know how many reps you are doing only the time of tension on the muscle. Plus keep the load right too much load and you will start to throw the weight and you will unload the muscle and cause the load to go to your joint. Those are called ego workouts I am sure everyone here has seen these people in the gym.

Hey J011yroger, if you ever come out to SOCAL you can be my guest at LAfitness and do my workout it goes like this. First one hour of strength training back ex, bench press, leg press, flys, rear delts, seated leg curl, seated shoulder press. Next run 7.5 miles at 8:00 minute mile pace, then hit the courts for 3 hrs of hitting. You will need five 33 ounce water bottles and a couple of power bars well thats what I need.

onehandbh
09-27-2008, 12:19 AM
..............

J011yroger
09-27-2008, 07:44 AM
Hey J011yroger, if you ever come out to SOCAL you can be my guest at LAfitness and do my workout it goes like this. First one hour of strength training back ex, bench press, leg press, flys, rear delts, seated leg curl, seated shoulder press. Next run 7.5 miles at 8:00 minute mile pace, then hit the courts for 3 hrs of hitting. You will need five 33 ounce water bottles and a couple of power bars well thats what I need.

I assume you are not doing gym work to assist your tennis playing so much as because you like it, or for your general well being.

J

cncretecwbo
09-27-2008, 07:58 AM
If you were a NYSC member or I could get you a guest pass, you are welcome to do a couple of my workouts, you might be cured permanantly of ever wanting to go into a gym again.

But mine are obviously for tournament training, not building mass.

J

what do your workouts look like?

Power 1-5 reps heaviest weight possible over 85% of your max
Strength is 5-10 reps Heavy weight no burn muscle failure
Increase muscle size 10-15 reps med weight you will feel the burn in last few.
Muscle endurance 15-20 reps light weight really a waste of time .

well, any rep range will increase muscle size. also, low reps increase maximal strength, not necessarily power (if by power you mean force over time). If you think about it, lifting a 1-3RM will make you move sloooow most likely at some point, training your muscles to express great strength, slowly. now being stronger DOES make you more powerful because you can use more force, but its not the only way.

Rep time should be 6 seconds per rep 3 on the way up or out and 3 on the way back or 4 on the way out and 2 on the way back. Next time you workout have your buddy time your set I bet most if not all of you are doing 3 seconds per rep way too fast. The only time you want fast and controlled is for powerlifting.

so what is olympic lifting? and why do you want to lift slow? do you push off for 3 seconds every step you take when you run?

Hey J011yroger, if you ever come out to SOCAL you can be my guest at LAfitness and do my workout it goes like this. First one hour of strength training back ex, bench press, leg press, flys, rear delts, seated leg curl, seated shoulder press. Next run 7.5 miles at 8:00 minute mile pace, then hit the courts for 3 hrs of hitting. You will need five 33 ounce water bottles and a couple of power bars well thats what I need.

wow that sounds fun :)

J011yroger
09-27-2008, 08:15 AM
what do your workouts look like?

A little cardio, HIIT, Plyo, Agility, Balance, Weights, Med Ball Throwing. About 2 hours worth on average.

J

heycal
09-27-2008, 09:21 AM
If you were a NYSC member or I could get you a guest pass, you are welcome to do a couple of my workouts, you might be cured permanantly of ever wanting to go into a gym again.

But mine are obviously for tournament training, not building mass.

J


As it happens, I am a member of NYSC. But I'm not doing no 2 hour tennis-centric workout.

onehandbh
09-27-2008, 10:31 AM
Hey Jrog,
2 hrs! You're dedication to the sport is inspiring. I never did anything
close to that back when I was playing tournaments. Did like 1 hr
of physical training 3x a week plus basketball 4-5 times a week but just
b/c I liked it -- wasn't doing it for training.


Hey J011yroger, if you ever come out to SOCAL you can be my guest at LAfitness and do my workout it goes like this. First one hour of strength training back ex, bench press, leg press, flys, rear delts, seated leg curl, seated shoulder press. Next run 7.5 miles at 8:00 minute mile pace, then hit the courts for 3 hrs of hitting. You will need five 33 ounce water bottles and a couple of power bars well thats what I need.

Hey FastFreddy,
I'm in socal too. Let's meet up and hit/play some time. You can reach me
through my TW profile. That's some serious workout you do.

J011yroger
09-27-2008, 05:55 PM
Hey Jrog,
2 hrs! You're dedication to the sport is inspiring. I never did anything
close to that back when I was playing tournaments. Did like 1 hr
of physical training 3x a week plus basketball 4-5 times a week but just
b/c I liked it -- wasn't doing it for training.

In the indoor playing season I am in the gym approx 10hrs/week.

Unfortunately I still suck.

Fortunately I am stubborn and will keep at it until I put up some representitive results.


J

FastFreddy
09-27-2008, 08:03 PM
I would be bored to tears to do sport specfic workouts for tennis way to time consuming like you said 10 hrs a week for gym work not for me. I am in very good shape from the running and lifting. But you also need plenty of court time to get in shape for sets with on court drills. Then play a tourament every other week to get tourament tough.

I played ice hockey my whole life so I don't really need balance boards nor agility drills. I guess if you need them do them depending on your past sport backround. I trained with the lady who invented the swiss ball back in the early 90's. I still do my ab work on them. I think plyo is to high risk I never had any of my clients do them or myself the reward is not worth the risk. The average guy still has to go to work in the morning you don't want them to blow out a knee. I know you are serious about your tennis since you hired a trainer and are willing to take that risk to improve your tennis fitness. I know all the trainers are in love with the med ball, plyo and now power lifting movements are in for the general people. Core training was the new and hot thing back in 1999 people and trainers are still into it but not as much.

Back when I played 4 times a week for a total court time of 12 hrs I would not run since the court beats up your knees already. I would bike for 1 hr and or play a little squash with my clients to warm up for outdoor clay court tennis that night. I still lift every 4th day, I run now 7 days a week instead of bike since I can finish it in an hour. Since I only play on the weekends and no more touraments. Most times just once a week.

Hot Sauce
09-27-2008, 08:06 PM
I do both high rep and low rep sets. It's good to change your routine every month or couple of months just to mix it up and prevent a plateau. What I do is start with a warm up (low weight), and then go to low reps, high weight, and then finish that body part off with a medium weight, high reps (until fail).

J011yroger
09-27-2008, 08:20 PM
I would be bored to tears to do sport specfic workouts for tennis way to time consuming like you said 10 hrs a week for gym work not for me. I am in very good shape from the running and lifting. But you also need plenty of court time to get in shape for sets with on court drills. Then play a tourament every other week to get tourament tough.

Ya, I figured we had way different goals. I would never run 7.5 miles for tennis. Used to run XC and kept running when I took up tennis again after I could lift my arm above paralell to the ground. I could play forever, but my movement was really sub optimal. Since I started the off court training, lifting and intervals, people have begun to comment on my quickness and court coverage (I usually look over my shoulder to see who they are really talking about) So I am really stoked to see how I am moving come springtime after I have a full indoor season to train off-court. This year I only got like 1/2 of the indoor season, and the first half of that I spent figuring out how to not fall on my ***.

Also I wouldn't do stuff like leg press and leg curls, preferring lunges, squats, split squats, deadlifts, straight leg dead lifts, strait leg single leg deadlifts, and all kinds of compound movements.

As far as hockey goes, my bud and hitting partner and gym partner is a big hockey player, played all through his childhood (ice) and currently plays roller, I guess 2X week in the outdoor season, much more over the winter.

And he is about even with me in the balance stuff in the gym, but come springtime, playing hockey all winter and no tennis absolutely destroys his on court movement, especially changing directions.

I blade, but just for low impact cardio because I take such a beating on court like you referenced, that it is just so much easier on my feet and joints to be able to skate. But I am pretty much just motoring along (and sissying out on the big hills) so it doesn't bother my on court movement at all.

J

r2473
09-28-2008, 10:46 PM
If my goal is to build muscle, who many reps should I be doing? 6-8? 1-12? What?

How do you choose the ideal weight, anyway? Find a weight you can do about 8 times before failing, and go with that one?

And how many sets, also? I've read that that there are studies that show multiple sets provide no additional gains than doing just one set would, but just to be sure I'll try and do 2 sets of each exercise. (Don't have time or inclination to do much more than 2 anyway.)

1) Lift as heavy of weight as you can lift for 5 to 8 good reps.

1a) Beat your last workout EVERYTIME (i.e. add reps or more weight; try to add weight to the bar as often as you can).

2) Two sets per excercise; 8-12 sets total per workout

3) Lift 3 times per week for no more than 45 minutes per session

4) Eat lots

5) Do compound exercises (squats, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, etc).

6) Rest lots

7) Have fun being beat up and tired all the time (but you will get bloody strong).