PDA

View Full Version : Weightlifters, help a skinny guy get big


porchdoor
09-29-2008, 09:38 PM
Hey guys, before I begin I would like to say that I'm not trying to workout to help with my tennis; I'm just trying to get bigger and stronger in general.

I'm a 5'10'' Asian kid approaching my 20th birthday, weighing in at 155lbs. I recently went on a two week trip to Vietnam and ended up losing 15lbs, due to the small portions of food during meals. I've been working out for four weeks now and have been able to gain that weight back. But now I'm wanting to get buff.

I've never really worked out before seriously, so I've been asking around about tips and how to work out correctly. From what I've heard from my friend, who's the biggest/cut guy I know personally, he said I need to blast my muscles. I've never really knew how a routine should be put together, but I've made my own that has been showing results. I want to post it here to ask if anything is wrong with it, or if anything can be improved. Here's exactly what I do:

Standing bicep curls: 10-15 reps
Side lateral raises: 10 reps
Front deltoid raises: 10-15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Pushups: 10-15 reps
This thing I saw Bruce Lee do, where he would lie on a bench and raises his legs straight up to where his butt would come up too: 15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Bench press: 10-12 reps
Incline lying dumbbell rows: 10-15 reps
Single arm dumbbell rows: 10-15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Decline pushups: 10-15 reps
Dumbbell triceps kickbacks: 10-15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Incline dumbbell chest flyes: 15 reps
Lying dumbbell rows: 15 reps
Overhead triceps extensions: 15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Dumbbell chest flyes: 15 reps
Two arm dumbbell rows: 15 reps
Straight arm dumbbell pullovers: 15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

Machine-assisted chest flyes: 10 reps
Sitting bicep curls: 15 reps
(Repeat in this sequence for 3 sets, with 1 minute rest)

As you can see, I am focusing on mostly my chest and back because those are the areas that need the most improvement. If anyone has any suggestions regarding to this, I'm open for any kind of help.

Also, the reason I do this sort of circuit training style is to save time. Instead of just sitting and resting, I use those minutes to hit a different muscle group. I don't really know anything about working out, so if this is hindering my goal of getting big, or if it's a better idea to just focus on each workout individually, let me know and I'll abandon this idea altogether.

I also read that it helps to eat as much [healthy] food as I can, as nutrition plays a big role in getting swole. I'm also taking Cell-Tech Hardcore creatine and Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey protein to help me out.

I workout on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. My goal is to first get the body of Bruce Lee, then the body of Michael Phelps, and finally when I'm old I want the body of Christ administered to me as my Last Sacrement.

Let me know what you think of my workout routine!

Swissv2
09-29-2008, 09:43 PM
sheesh...hope you can last at least a month doing this.

Hot Sauce
09-29-2008, 09:54 PM
What I would suggest is making a 4 day split. This is a LOT to do all on one day, and you are not giving your muscles enough time to rest in between workout days.

This is an EXCELLENT site that has a sample 4 day split, including different exercises.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/matt89.htm

And this is an awesome site that explains the purpose of a split, and goes into more detail on why you want to work certain body parts before or after others.
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/john1.htm

Both pages are definitely worth a read.

Good luck.

porchdoor
09-29-2008, 10:27 PM
What I would suggest is making a 4 day split. This is a LOT to do all on one day, and you are not giving your muscles enough time to rest in between workout days.

This is an EXCELLENT site that has a sample 4 day split, including different exercises.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/matt89.htm

And this is an awesome site that explains the purpose of a split, and goes into more detail on why you want to work certain body parts before or after others.
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/john1.htm

Both pages are definitely worth a read.

Good luck.

Holy crap man, this is exactly the kind of help I've been searching for. All the splits I've read included the lower body. And with all the tennis, soccer, and running I do, I have to say that my lower body is quite bodacious and splendid. Thanks man!

Hot Sauce
09-29-2008, 10:31 PM
No problem, sir!

SmoothSailing
09-29-2008, 11:30 PM
Holy crap man, this is exactly the kind of help I've been searching for. All the splits I've read included the lower body. And with all the tennis, soccer, and running I do, I have to say that my lower body is quite bodacious and splendid. Thanks man!
Unless you work your legs with weights, they will be weak. Don't be one of those fools who can bench as much as they squat.

Rickson
09-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Always keep in mind that the heavy weight/low reps for mass and lighter weight/high reps for definition is a huge load of crap. Bruce Lee, who was and still is the standard of cut, was one of the strongest men alive during his time. Bruce regularly worked out with heavy weights, but noone ever accused him of being massive. Definition comes from having low bodyfat, not doing light weights for 50 reps. I've seen obese guys who swore they didn't want to get big (too late!) do that stupid multi rep/light weight workout. A lot of good it's doing them. If you want to gain quality size, cut back on the cardio, eat more, and do some resistance training. The truth is that a person looking to gain weight should not do any cardio, but that's not practical for a tennis player. Just do those 3 things I mentioned and you'll be on your way to a bigger body and that's the truth. Heavy weights with low reps for size doesn't mean a damn thing if you're in a calorie deficit and light weights with multi reps for cuts is the biggest load of crap in weightlifting history.

r2473
09-30-2008, 11:13 AM
1) Lift as heavy of weight as you can lift for 5 to 8 good reps.

1a) Beat your last workout EVERYTIME (i.e. add reps or more weight; try to add weight to the bar as often as you can).

2) Two sets per exercise (for most exercises); 8-12 sets total per workout

3) Lift 3 times per week for no more than 45 minutes per session

4) Eat lots

5) Do compound exercises (squats, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, etc).

6) Rest lots

7) Take a full week rest every 8 weeks

Gmedlo
09-30-2008, 04:16 PM
I'd recommend sticking to compound exercises (like those mentioned^^^) to establish a base of strength. You say your legs are strong from tennis/soccer, etc., but honestly, unless you can already squat 1.5x bodyweight, you have a long ways to go. You also need to remember that squats are the best exercise for increasing growth hormone in your body and thereby stimulating overall growth. AND, if you only work your upper body, you aren't going to burn as much fat post workout because you didn't use nearly the amount of muscle you would have if you'd included leg work.

porchdoor
09-30-2008, 05:38 PM
I'd recommend sticking to compound exercises (like those mentioned^^^) to establish a base of strength. You say your legs are strong from tennis/soccer, etc., but honestly, unless you can already squat 1.5x bodyweight, you have a long ways to go. You also need to remember that squats are the best exercise for increasing growth hormone in your body and thereby stimulating overall growth. AND, if you only work your upper body, you aren't going to burn as much fat post workout because you didn't use nearly the amount of muscle you would have if you'd included leg work.

Noted about the squats. Just read about those and deadlifts, so I'll be sure to include those as well. Also, I guess it's widely understood about splitting your workout in muscle groups, correct?

Also, can anyone else give input about my semi-circuit style of weight lifting?

Rickson
09-30-2008, 05:56 PM
When you do squats, make sure the bar rests across your traps and not on your neck. Squats are one of the most difficult exercises to master formwise. Ask an experienced gym member or a personal trainer for help on your squatting form. As for your circuit, it's a combination of aerobic and anaerobic training and I already pointed out that you don't need aerobic exercise if your goal is to gain weight. Stick to 2 bodyparts per workout and limit your sets to 2 per exercise. 2 sets of flat bench for 15 reps and 10 reps. 2 sets of incline bench for 15 and 10, etc..

Hot Sauce
09-30-2008, 07:01 PM
I found squats to be painful for my traps, and front squats to be hard on my shoulders. I find it hard to do without a rack, too. I really want to start gaining some mass in my legs, though. Suggestions, Ricky?

Sleepstream
09-30-2008, 07:15 PM
I found squats to be painful for my traps, and front squats to be hard on my shoulders. I find it hard to do without a rack, too. I really want to start gaining some mass in my legs, though. Suggestions, Ricky?

DB lunges are a possibility.

S H O W S T O P P E R !
10-01-2008, 05:17 PM
I think that all your exercises is working away all the vitamins that your body needs to grow. Do these 2-3 times a week and afterwards, drink some milk, Team EAS also works. Also, if you're really skinny, EAT A STEAK. If you constantly diet, you will stay skinny. It doesn't mean eat like a carnivore, just add a little more fat and protein to the mix.

purple-n-gold
10-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Agree %100 w/ everything Rickson said.Focus on compound movements such as bench press,squats,leg press,and deadlifts.Make these your core exercises for building mass and do chest,legs and back on separate days.
Mon.-chest
Wed.-legs
Fri.-back

Uncle Emmitt
10-01-2008, 05:47 PM
also if your especially doing weights to improve your tennis you need to do some functional exercises where you mimic tennis type fitness, bouncing medicine ball throws are great as well as balance leg work on discs or bosu ball I would still do leg exercises. Some type of squats and lunges. + more functional core work.

I'm a Tennis pro and PT

Rickson
10-01-2008, 05:52 PM
And I agree with the Laker fan.

porchdoor
10-02-2008, 07:58 PM
Great advice from everyone, thanks. I will be implementing it all in my routine.

Let me ask you all what you think of this: Bruce Lee didn't always believe in rest days, meaning he didn't like having set days to rest and set days to workout. He believed that if your body feels energized, you should go and workout. Obviously, if your body is still sore and exhausted he took as many days necessary to rest. What do you guys think of this? I just worked out yesterday, and I felt like working out again today.

Rickson
10-02-2008, 08:22 PM
You muscles need rest in order to grow. If your chest is sore after a Monday workout and you decide to work your chest again on Wednesday while it's still sore, you'll inhibit growth. Overworking a bodypart hurts muscle growth, not contributes. Rest is when the muscles actually grow so keep that in mind and never workout a sore bodypart if your goal is muscle hypertrophy. If your goal is endurance, you can do whatever you like, but since your goal is growth, don't work out when you're sore.

Tofuspeedstar
10-02-2008, 10:04 PM
6-8 solid reps if you're trying to gain mass. 10-15 is too many.

You need an organized split. As well.

And basic compound movements are your friend, utilize them

Deadlift
Squat
Bench Press

Rickson
10-03-2008, 02:02 AM
Do you also believe that when someone jumps off a tall building, he dies before he hits the ground? If you die in your dream, do you die in real life? If you work out a lot then suddenly stop, do your muscles turn to fat?

Uncle Emmitt
10-03-2008, 06:06 AM
don't do body parts on consecutive days. except abs if you want to

porchdoor
10-03-2008, 07:39 AM
Thanks guys. It's actually pretty reassuring when you all emphasize on all the same things. Hope to see great improvements in the coming months. Wish me luck.

r2473
10-03-2008, 09:52 AM
Do you also believe that when someone jumps off a tall building, he dies before he hits the ground? If you die in your dream, do you die in real life? If you work out a lot then suddenly stop, do your muscles turn to fat?

Nobody believes muscle turns to fat. It is just a euphemism for what happens when you stop a fitness training program:

Muscle is always muscle and Fat is always Fat.

You cannot turn one into the other. When you stop any fitness training program, your caloric demand will be reduced.

Most people have a difficult time adjusting to the changes in their fitness program in relationship to food consumption.

Also within 72 hours since your last workout, the body begins a gentle, almost undetectable slide into sloth. In time, muscle mass decreases. Muscles that used to incinerate calories and crank up your metabolism while at rest, do not work as efficiently and hence less calories burned.

The body at this point does not burn fat as efficiently and then Fat gains get accelerated and this process is compounded by a declining metabolism, diminished muscle mass, and failure to adjust your caloric intake.

So muscle doesn't turn into fat at all...

...The Fat just consumes and takes over your Body!

Uncle Emmitt
10-03-2008, 11:54 AM
r2473 is correct totally

r2473
10-03-2008, 01:28 PM
You mean muscle can't turn to fat? What a shocker!

I was just explaining the meaning behind a common myth. You put it out there as a joke, but there is something to it. The explanation people give may not be accurate, but you see people who gain muscular size become fat later in life (when they decrease their activity level).

Another common myth is "Don't eat before going to bed".

People who are trying to lose weight hear this warning all the time. And it's often recommended even for people who aren't trying to lose weight. The logic behind this advice sounds reasonable: If you eat and then go to sleep, your body will convert the food you ate into fat rather than using it right away as fuel. Ultimately, you'll gain weight.

Of course, this is a myth. You will lose weight with a caloric deficit and gain weight with a caloric surplus. Gain / loss will be fat or muscle (or a combination) depending on physical activity.

But it is also TRUE. Why? Because people who eat before bed usually eat "bad" foods (chips, soda, ice cream) and they also tend to binge. Few people get a craving for carrots, celery, and no-fat cottage cheese before bed.

So, the myth is actually true in many cases, but not for the reason that the euphemism "Don't eat before bed" suggests. Just as the euphemism "Fat turns to muscle" is true in a sense for the reasons explained above.

Rickson
10-03-2008, 01:57 PM
R2, I was just messing with tofu because he seems to believe the myth about low reps for mass and high reps for definition. The truth is that beginners shouldn't be training for mass anyway. Novices should focus on good form and do only 1 set of 15 reps per exercise. 15 reps is what NASM recommends because the body can acclimate to the exercise with 15. After a few weeks of 1 set exercises, the novice can move up to 2 sets. I recommend the 1st set to be 15 and the 2nd to be 10. This is where tofu jumped in and said it was all wrong. I'm pretty sure tofu doesn't have my experience in the gym so I had to believe that he believed in that low rep for mass myth. Don't get me wrong, intensity counts for something, but claiming that 10-15 reps being way too many is nonsense. We're not talking about 40 reps, we're talking about 10 freakin reps! I wonder how Ronnie Coleman got so massive doing his 10 plus rep sets. The answer is high intensity, a calorie dense diet, and some serious anabolic drugs!

r2473
10-03-2008, 02:46 PM
R2, I was just messing with tofu because he seems to believe the myth about low reps for mass and high reps for definition. The truth is that beginners shouldn't be training for mass anyway. Novices should focus on good form and do only 1 set of 15 reps per exercise. 15 reps is what NASM recommends because the body can acclimate to the exercise with 15. After a few weeks of 1 set exercises, the novice can move up to 2 sets. I recommend the 1st set to be 15 and the 2nd to be 10. This is where tofu jumped in and said it was all wrong. I'm pretty sure tofu doesn't have my experience in the gym so I had to believe that he believed in that low rep for mass myth. Don't get me wrong, intensity counts for something, but claiming that 10-15 reps being way too many is nonsense. We're not talking about 40 reps, we're talking about 10 freakin reps! I wonder how Ronnie Coleman got so massive doing his 10 plus rep sets. The answer is high intensity, a calorie dense diet, and some serious anabolic drugs!

I see.

RE the "low rep for mass" myth, I always thought the keys to gaining mass and strength are:

1) Adding weight to the bar

2) Good form

3) Maintaining a caloric surplus

4) Rest

If you do too many reps, it is really hard to add weight. I always try to stay in the 5-8 rep range (except on certain exercises like calf raises, some tricep exercises, and a few others). 10 reps may be reasonable, but it will be just that much harder to add weight. Also, form tends to break down on the later reps, so getting 5 really good reps would seem to be better than 5 really good 2 decent and 3 awful reps (or having to lower the weight to get 10 good reps).

To gain you have to add new stresses to the muscle. So, if you do the exact same thing this time as you did last time, you might as well stay home in bed. If I do 50 lbs X 5 for 2 sets on the bench today, next time I bench I want to be sure I either increase my reps or the weight. When I can get 8 GOOD reps, I add weight. I'll often add weight before I can get 8, depending.

I don't think doing less than 5 reps is good. But doing too many, to me, will just give you a good "pump", but do nothing to actually helping you build muscle.

By the way, I would also recommend a beginner to start with higher reps and work on good form as you suggest above. A beginner needs to start slowly. They can't handle the stresses of heavy weight and need to get used to it. They also need to work on good form.

Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts on the "low rep for mass" myth to find out just what you find objectionable. I have a feeling we are not far apart. Training isn't that complicated (but people sure like to think it is with all of their fancy bull***** mumbo jumbo).

Rickson
10-03-2008, 04:03 PM
R2, intensity is definitely a good thing to stimulate hypertrophy, but 10 reps is actually not too many reps for muscle hypertrophy. 15 may be pushing it, but my problem comes more from the reverse portion of the myth or in other words, a lot of reps with light weight gives you definition. As you know, definition does not come from doing more reps, it comes from having low bodyfat. As for the mass with low reps myth, most people can not, I repeat, can not gain a significant amount of mass in a short amount of time anyway without the help of anabolic drugs. I've seen too many people in the gym who claimed they didn't want to get too muscular and these same people had higher bodyfat than the pro wrestlers of the 1970s. I'd ask them if they were ever overly muscular and some of them would say they actually had a tendency to put on muscle very quickly. They sure fooled me! These people literally could not press or pull 1/3 of the weight I used and I was one of the last people you'd have called massive. The truth is you can not get too muscular without anabolics. I know I couldn't. I'm proud to say I've never done steroids and I never will. Can you gain size without anabolic drugs? Yes, you can. Can you gain too much muscle mass without anabolic drugs? Absolutely not!

r2473
10-03-2008, 04:32 PM
my problem comes more from the reverse portion of the myth or in other words, a lot of reps with light weight gives you definition. As you know, definition does not come from doing more reps, it comes from having low bodyfat. As for the mass with low reps myth, most people can not, I repeat, can not gain a significant amount of mass in a short amount of time anyway without the help of anabolic drugs.

Agree on both counts.

It is funny to see people doing 20 reps for 3 sets thinking they are getting toned and defined. You can only get 6-pack abs if you have maximum 8% bodyfat. I don't care how many fancy "core" exercises you do.

Mass takes time. You can add weight to the bar pretty often when you start training, but it gets harder and harder. You have to keep up the intensity and work you *** off to beat your previous workout someway. Plate Mates are a good way to keep adding small amounts of weight.

It is a little demoralizing when you see someone you know is using anabolics. They do get big fast. And here I am working my *** off and am still a (relatively) little *****.

Well, lets hope Porchdoor is able to make some gains in the gym. Me, I am beat to ***** after this weeks training and am looking forward to a weekend of rest.

Mikael
10-04-2008, 12:51 AM
OP: in your quest for mass you must always remember one thing:

adding kilos is one thing, adding muscle is another.


And one bit of advice that I don't think anyone has given yet, but which is absolutely essential: rest and relax. Building muscle is a long term investment that your body is only willing to make if it doesn't have more urgent needs (stress).

lawlitssoo1n
10-04-2008, 06:43 PM
i got this cool book about muscles its soooo helpful, go to barnes and nobles and look for it

Uncle Emmitt
10-08-2008, 04:37 AM
i like 8-12 reps normally except for calves I sometimes do more and abs

benne
10-08-2008, 03:14 PM
High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) Is the best, fastest, shortest, workout that produces the largest amounts of muscle mass in ratio to burning fat. It will get you cut like none other. Helped me lose about 90 lbs total (more fat) over the last 4 years.

look it up on youtube.

Pretty much you use your body weight and minimal weights to get your whole body fatigued/tired, as fast as possible. Search the 300 spartan workout and that's the same idea. the problem is you need to be very healthy as it kills your immune system. People who have mastered HIIT for their body don't do this more than 3 times a week.

I usually go out to the courts, warm my body up, do pushups, pullups, situps, sprints, jump rope, slight jogging, and all of it til I feel like I've worked my body out.

plus it helps your tennis game out tremendously, you'll be more agile on the court, jogging and weightlifting make your muscles slow-twitch fiber and make you slower on the court. it also destroys your muscle memory.





To what Mikael said:

Resting is key, don't destroy your muscles. When you lift your muscles are being broken down, literally, the protein intake puts your body into an anabolic state (muscle reproduction). When you're working too hard and not enough protein and rest, you are just tearing those muscles.


in agreement, one more tidbit: weightlifting in a gym only builds muscle, doesn't necessarily burn fat. exercising WITH larger muscle mass burns more fat.

look it up on the internet, there are tons of studies and great articles on what's good for you.

rum02
10-08-2008, 08:15 PM
plus it helps your tennis game out tremendously, you'll be more agile on the court, jogging and weightlifting make your muscles slow-twitch fiber and make you slower on the court. it also destroys your muscle memory.


weight lifting actually increases the amount of fast twitch muscle fibres. As long as you don't put too much fat on and you remain flexible, you won't get slower from lifting weights.

Rickson
10-08-2008, 09:17 PM
HIIT is good for burning calories, but it's definitely not a formula for gaining mass. The key to gaining mass is to consume more calories than expended and that means no HIIT and no cardio of any kind. Lift weights, eat more, and sleep.

SystemicAnomaly
10-08-2008, 11:44 PM
i got this cool book about muscles its soooo helpful, go to barnes and nobles and look for it

OK, so I've looked at 6,749 books at B&N so far. Which one is it?

porchdoor
10-09-2008, 09:16 AM
OK, so I've looked at 6,749 books at B&N so far. Which one is it?

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do

tennisdad65
10-09-2008, 02:47 PM
5-10, 155 for a 20 yr old is pretty good..
I am 43 yrs, 5-10, 170, and I wish I could lose 5-10 lbs of fat.

r2473
10-14-2008, 01:25 PM
The following is advice from Jason Ferruggia


What are 3 to 5 ways to get bigger and stronger?

It can be said that getting bigger and stronger is 1/3 training, 1/3 nutrition and 1/3 hormonal. I will briefly address each of these.

As far as training goes, you need to focus on big compound exercises and you need to strive to continually add weight to the bar. While other trainers or coaches may argue that you can make progress by doing more sets, decreasing your rest periods, or using set extension techniques, the fact remains that the fastest way to get a muscle to grow, or better yet, force it to grow is to add weight to the bar. Do this while training no more than three or four days a week for 45 minutes per workout, hitting each muscle group twice a week or once every five days with adequate volume and you will grow. Avoid isolation movements and machines and make sure you squat, deadlift, overhead press, chin, row and dip.

Train hard but finish all of your reps on your own without having a nervous breakdown in the process by getting too fired up. That is never necessary and is counter productive. Never let a spotter touch the bar and help you grind out extra reps beyond what you could do on your own.

As far as nutrition goes, this is where a lot of guys miss the boat. You have to eat to grow. Studies have shown that sumo wrestlers have more muscle mass per square inch than elite level bodybuilders. And they donít even lift weights! That is because overeating itself is highly anabolic. Other studies have been conducted where people were fed an additional thousand calories per day for 100 days, without any training whatsoever, and 1/3 of the weight they gained was muscle mass!Now, of course you donít want to get fat so you need to plan your eating and eat the right foods at the right times. The simplest advice I can give anyone looking to get bigger and stronger is to make sure that breakfast and your post workout meal are the two largest feedings of the day. Eat more calories and carbohydrates on training days, and fewer calories and carbs on off days. Focus on organic, natural food sources, eat tons of fruits, vegetable, nuts, beans and legumes and limit your consumption of animal products.

The third thing that needs to be considered is the hormonal response to training. If your testosterone and growth hormone levels are high you will get bigger and stronger a lot faster than if they are not. Here are a few things that you can do to maximize your anabolic hormone levels:

∑Limit your workouts to 45 minutes. After that your testosterone levels are shot and cortisol, which eats muscle and increases fat storage, takes over.
∑Avoid stress as much as possible- this causes the release of cortisol.
∑Practice deep breathing and meditation- this helps manage stress and blunts the production of cortisol.
∑Compete- competition stimulates testosterone production. That is one reason why itís great to have a good training partner.
∑Eat an adequate amount of healthy fats- they have been shown to increase testosterone levels.
∑Avoid any animal products that donít come from organic sources. They are loaded with drugs that will cause your testosterone production to plummet.
∑Try to drink red wine instead of beer whenever possible. Beer elevates estrogen levels, and when estrogen goes up, testosterone goes down. Red wine, on the other hand, has been shown to be anti estrogenic.
∑Get 8-9 hours of high quality sleep per night. This is one of the absolute best ways to boost your testosterone production and reduce your cortisol levels.
∑Have more sex. When you are sexually active your testosterone production goes up. As if we needed another reasonÖ

bumblebee
10-15-2008, 06:15 PM
i would recommend eating a lot of meat... just massive amounts of meat and carbs. It's easier to lose weight than to gain it. so try to eat.

porchdoor
01-13-2009, 07:50 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all your help. I'm seeing good improvement with the suggestions you all have made.

Quick question though: I've pretty much exhausted the weights I had at home and needed to move on to something heavier. I've recently gained the confidence to work out at my school's fitness center. Exactly......what do you use to do deadlifts? The squat rack has a rail that prevents the bar to go all the way down. All the other stations pretty much seem to be made to be used for a specific purpose. Is there etiquette to this? Can I just grab a bar from one of the bench press stations?

Any other gym etiquette I should know of? I already almost got in trouble for using a decline bench wrong (supervisor was yelling to figure out who did it, so I ran the hell out of there).

cncretecwbo
01-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all your help. I'm seeing good improvement with the suggestions you all have made.

Quick question though: I've pretty much exhausted the weights I had at home and needed to move on to something heavier. I've recently gained the confidence to work out at my school's fitness center. Exactly......what do you use to do deadlifts? The squat rack has a rail that prevents the bar to go all the way down. All the other stations pretty much seem to be made to be used for a specific purpose. Is there etiquette to this? Can I just grab a bar from one of the bench press stations?

Any other gym etiquette I should know of? I already almost got in trouble for using a decline bench wrong (supervisor was yelling to figure out who did it, so I ran the hell out of there).

deadlifts are just on an open space on the floor, i do them in front of a rack so i can rack the bar to change the weights easily.

how did you use a decline bench wrong, though?

porchdoor
01-15-2009, 09:05 PM
deadlifts are just on an open space on the floor, i do them in front of a rack so i can rack the bar to change the weights easily.

how did you use a decline bench wrong, though?

I'm used to using the guided weights. And I forgot that doing a free bar is harder that using a guided bar, so I used too many weights. I lost control of the bar. Not only that, but because I was used to the guided weights I forgot to clip the ends of the bar. So I lost stabilization while the weights were shifting around on the bar. Trying to regain control, I was stepping all over the bench leaving footprints. It was a pretty embarrassing moment.

kashgotmoney
01-15-2009, 09:24 PM
You want to split your days up in the gym.
Day 1: Arms.

Day 2: Chest and back

Day 3: Legs

At the end of every work out, do abs.

For workouts for getting big i reccomend this

Day 1: Tricep Extension, 3 sets of 12
Pullups, 3 sets of max
Dumbell Curls, 3 sets of 12
Tricep Dips, 3 sets of 25
3 sets of 150 situps,
3 sets of weighted situps ( go to machine with rope and 2 balls/weights dangling at each end of rope, where tricep pull down is done, and lower it to the lowest, lie down on ground and hold over shoulder with 40 lbs and do 3 sets of 15 situps.

Day 2: Dumbell Press, 3 sets of 15,
Bench press, 3 sets of 12,
Lat Pull down, 3 sets of 12,
Inverted bench press, 3 sets of 8
Shrugs, 3 sets of 15
same ab workout as day 1

Day 3: Squats, 3 sets of 12
Calph Raise, 3 sets of 15
Leg extension, 3 sets of 15
Leg Curl, 3 sets of 15
3 sets of 2 on Max out squat
Same ab workout as day one

Dieting: Breakfast: Muscle Milk and sausage or meat. Lunch, muscle milk and meat with rice or some carbs. and dinner, MEAT MEAT MEAT with water. MORE CALORIES = more muscle, eat as many calories as you can

Snacks, Power Bars..


EVERYONE OUT THERE, dont do steroids lol

Leelord337
01-15-2009, 10:30 PM
There's this kid who's ***** I really want to kick, so the determination and discipline will be there. I'm going into my fifth week doing all this, so hopefully I will be able to keep doing so for for a couple of several months.

haha, lemmie guess ur 16, :P. i would say keep that goal of having ur own bruce lee body in sight and if u work hard enough and have the determination and dedication anything is possible.

Rickson
01-16-2009, 05:27 AM
Bumble, your statement is subjective and statistically untrue. Most people actually gain weight easier than lose it. While gaining weight might be difficult for some individuals, gaining bodyfat is definitely easier than gaining quality muscle mass. Conversely, losing bodyfat is much more difficult than gaining bodyfat so if your opinion is that it's easier to lose bodyfat than it is to gain bodyfat, you'd be wrong. If your opinion was about muscle gain being more difficult than muscle loss, you'd be correct.

Spawn of Cthulhu
01-16-2009, 07:32 AM
For a very simple and yet effective workout, forget about the body splits above. Waterbury's plan to use 3 big exercises is simple and very effective (I haven't seen his book but Cosgrove's The New Rules of Lifting is worth checking out at a bookstore).
I've been lifting for many years (I'm 42) and still do squats, deadlifts, weighted dips and pullups/chins, and the OL lifts (snatches, clean and jerks). There is no reason, especially for someone young who wishes to be athletic, to do focused arm, chest, leg days, etc.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/counting_your_reps_for_more_muscle

porchdoor
02-20-2009, 07:25 PM
Hey guys! I've been working out nonstop, and I feel great. I've gained 10lbs to be 165lbs. I'm pretty sure this isn't pure muscle, because I think 10lbs of muscle would be A LOT for only about 6 months. I'm promoting myself from being scrawny to healthy and lean. Not to say that I haven't bulked up, but I was extremely skinny. Anyways, even though I'm still small, my chest and shoulders are really coming in nicely. In a little more time, I'll post pictures of my progress so I can get some input to see if I'm making an efficient amount of gain.

Thanks again everybody for all your help. (I really mean it. Starting out, I was working out completely wrong and I probably would have continued to do so without all your help).

Rickson
02-20-2009, 10:26 PM
You're welcome, porch. Glad I could help.

Djokovicfan4life
02-21-2009, 06:20 PM
Wait a second, somebody actually DID the workouts discussed in a thread? Wow, I guess I was wrong about this section, haha.

porchdoor
06-16-2009, 06:26 PM
Hey guys, new update.

So, I'm now at about 9 months into working our seriously, and something has gone terribly wrong. Hint: in 9 months of training, I've gone from 155-170lbs bodyweight.

What the hell happened? I started off pretty scrawny, and now I've got this pooch. I mean, I've made great gains in my workouts, but I just have this damn pooch now.

I'm thinking its my diet. Before working out, I'd probably have about 2 bowls of rice at dinner/whole day. Now I'm eating probably 5-6 bowls for the day. Let me lay out what I've been eating recently so you guys can give me some negative feedback:

Breakfast: Total cereal, egg and toast, water or orange juice

Lunch: either sub sandwich, tuna fish sandwich, or leftovers from dinner the night before

Dinner: rice, vegetables, some sort of meat

Eat dinner again later at night.

I also sprinkle in snacks throughout the day. And yes, they are crappy snacks like chips. I also take creatine and protein supplements. I first used CellTech Hardcore. After the Hydroxycut scare, I switched to 6 Star Creatine. Now I'm using Cell-Mass. I was using ON 100% Whey, and now I'm using 100% Whey Pro Amino (I switched because the Pro Amino claims 45g of protein per scoop).

So how crappy is my diet? Or is there something else that's causing my pooch? I'm not fat, I just have this belly. But I'm scared it will turn into becoming me being fat. The rest of my body is looking more and more fantastic, by the way.

coyfish
06-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Hey guys, new update.

So, I'm now at about 9 months into working our seriously, and something has gone terribly wrong. Hint: in 9 months of training, I've gone from 155-170lbs bodyweight.

What the hell happened? I started off pretty scrawny, and now I've got this pooch. I mean, I've made great gains in my workouts, but I just have this damn pooch now.

I'm thinking its my diet. Before working out, I'd probably have about 2 bowls of rice at dinner/whole day. Now I'm eating probably 5-6 bowls for the day. Let me lay out what I've been eating recently so you guys can give me some negative feedback:

Breakfast: Total cereal, egg and toast, water or orange juice

Lunch: either sub sandwich, tuna fish sandwich, or leftovers from dinner the night before

Dinner: rice, vegetables, some sort of meat

Eat dinner again later at night.

I also sprinkle in snacks throughout the day. And yes, they are crappy snacks like chips. I also take creatine and protein supplements. I first used CellTech Hardcore. After the Hydroxycut scare, I switched to 6 Star Creatine. Now I'm using Cell-Mass. I was using ON 100% Whey, and now I'm using 100% Whey Pro Amino (I switched because the Pro Amino claims 45g of protein per scoop).

So how crappy is my diet? Or is there something else that's causing my pooch? I'm not fat, I just have this belly. But I'm scared it will turn into becoming me being fat. The rest of my body is looking more and more fantastic, by the way.

After a bulk you usually gain a little BF. Its normal for many people. You need to spread out your meals more if you can. Try and eat more balanced meals and definately stay away from those chips :). Make sure your getting your veggies / good fats. I wouldn't take creatine but thats just my opinion. It doesn't help in the long run. Don't eat too many carbs before bed if you want to lose fat.

Just eat clean, frequently, balanced, and follow it up with cardio and you will lose BF. Its pretty much impossible to lose BF while gaining weight so don't try it. Same goes the other way around.

I know you gave a very brief look at your diet but change things up. Have beans, nuts, potatoes, rices, fruits . . . dont have rice every day is what i mean. Try potatoes the next day.

Hot Sauce
06-16-2009, 08:53 PM
You could be taking in too many calories. Also keep in mind that it's a common side effect of creatine to cause visible bloating.

Power Player
06-17-2009, 04:41 AM
I think it has been covered well in here. But I have been called buff enough times to agree with Rickson. You need to do the compound lifts and push yourself to lift heavy. 10 reps to me is a lot. I like to warmup with 10 reps but then add weights and go to 5 reps on the compunds. Even if you want to watch your arms and be safe, find a heavy weight that you can rep out 5 times and build up to it and do 3 sets of that. For me, I like to rep 225-245 for 3 sets of 5. It's not super heavy, but you will feel it. Same with Deads. I do not go AS heavy as before because my elbow was giving me problems. But I always ADD weight and never pyramid back down. On every exercise I do.

I do the push /pull/ legs workout week.

jgn1013
06-17-2009, 05:01 AM
Hey guys, new update.


Breakfast: Total cereal, egg and toast, water or orange juice

Lunch: either sub sandwich, tuna fish sandwich, or leftovers from dinner the night before

Dinner: rice, vegetables, some sort of meat

Eat dinner again later at night.



You need to have a better diet, cut out all process foods. Eat lean meats (skinless chicken, turkey, etc.), no more simple carbs (white bread, or rice), and cut all junk food & sodas.

Here is a skeleton sample of a daily diet:
morning: protein shake w.(low fat or 1% milk), egg whites, whole wheat toast, turkey bacon etc.
morning snack: lite cheese stick, orgainc peanut butter, wheat crackers, apple or fruit
lunch: chicken salad w. lite oil dressing, protein shake w. water
afternoon snack: protein bar, or low fat greek yogart
dinner: brown rice, grill tuna or salmon( wild), 2 servings fo vegetables(steamed)

Rickson
06-17-2009, 05:09 AM
The above diet looks to be too low carb for the op to handle. Remember, he's eating 5 bowls of white rice and this is not a habit you can change overnight. Porch wants to gain weight, not lose it, but unfortunately, he's fallen into the bad weight gain trap which happens to almost everyone on a caloric surplus. Gaining nothing but lean muscle is not an easy task. Even pro bodybuilders bulk up first by gaining a combination of muscle and fat. It's a 2 part series for bodybuilders: bulk first and cut afterwards. Welcome to the world of bodybuilding, porch.

jgn1013
06-17-2009, 05:53 AM
The above diet looks to be too low carb for the op to handle. Remember, he's eating 5 bowls of white rice and this is not a habit you can change overnight. Porch wants to gain weight, not lose it, but unfortunately, he's fallen into the bad weight gain trap which happens to almost everyone on a caloric surplus. Gaining nothing but lean muscle is not an easy task. Even pro bodybuilders bulk up first by gaining a combination of muscle and fat. It's a 2 part series for bodybuilders: bulk first and cut afterwards. Welcome to the world of bodybuilding, porch.

If he wants to eat more carbs, I would suggest sticking to all complex carbohydrates.

Rickson
06-17-2009, 06:12 AM
You definitely get more fiber from brown carbs than from white carbs, but overall, carbs are not the enemy. Excess calories are the enemy. Porch seemed to go overboard in his quest to gain size. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gaining bodyfat is easy, gaining muscle is not so easy.

Power Player
06-17-2009, 06:17 AM
I always eat brown rice before I lift or play tennis. I would reccomend that as a good energy source.

jgn1013
06-17-2009, 06:42 AM
You definitely get more fiber from brown carbs than from white carbs, but overall, carbs are not the enemy. Excess calories are the enemy. Porch seemed to go overboard in his quest to gain size. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gaining bodyfat is easy, gaining muscle is not so easy.

Carb is not the enemy, just eat better foods. Lean meats, and get rid of "empty" calories.

coyfish
06-17-2009, 08:03 AM
I would even drop the juices if you do drink them. Have fruits instead. A lot of "pure" juices are actually concentrated shots with tons of sugar. Fruits are good but not too many.

As rick said why don't you just go through a cutting cycle?? Take a couple months and drop 10 lbs. (the proper way)

TheFuture101
07-01-2009, 10:57 AM
What I would suggest is making a 4 day split. This is a LOT to do all on one day, and you are not giving your muscles enough time to rest in between workout days.

This is an EXCELLENT site that has a sample 4 day split, including different exercises.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/matt89.htm

And this is an awesome site that explains the purpose of a split, and goes into more detail on why you want to work certain body parts before or after others.
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/john1.htm

Both pages are definitely worth a read.

Good luck.

Would it be smarter to do abs monday, wed, friday instead of just once a week? I mean its the most used muscele for tennis ;)

Federer_Sampras
07-01-2009, 12:30 PM
Don't know if this was mentioned, but definitely have a broader workout than just your chest and core. Work on every muscle group not just a specific part. Celltech and Nitrotech are your best friends for muscle gains. G

maverick66
07-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Celltech and Nitrotech are your best friends for muscle gains. G

it always amazes me that people fall for the advertisements. Because Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman are on the ad that must be what did it?

Rickson
07-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Not all supps are a waste of money. A good multi such as Apex and BCAA are some good supps.

maverick66
07-01-2009, 01:22 PM
im a big supplement guy but it always amazes me that people think that those two are amazing because they see the ad. On top of that how many people are working hard enough to require alot of the supplements they are on? I doubt anyone on here asking for a workout program is really working that hard. Most hard workers i have ever met in the gym will ask guys working out with them or read books recommended to them.

Rickson
07-01-2009, 03:23 PM
The guys who endorse those supplements are actually on other kinds of supplements.

Federer_Sampras
07-01-2009, 04:49 PM
All I'm saying is that if you combine those two with a proper workout and nutrition plan, results will be seen. It might not work for everyone, but I'm living breathing proof that these supplements have legitimately allowed me to gain weight and strength. I used to be very skinny and have seen massive gains using those two supplements.

maverick66
07-01-2009, 05:10 PM
All I'm saying is that if you combine those two with a proper workout and nutrition plan, results will be seen. It might not work for everyone, but I'm living breathing proof that these supplements have legitimately allowed me to gain weight and strength. I used to be very skinny and have seen massive gains using those two supplements.

I can say that with a million supplements. Those two just advertised very well. I dont recommend there products as i got an awful stomach when i took them.

The guys who endorse those supplements are actually on other kinds of supplements.

they take a special sauce that I dont know the name of. I am sure someone around here knows the name of the stuff they take but i guarantee you dont buy it at a gnc.

Rickson
07-01-2009, 05:49 PM
Is it a testosterone sauce?

WildVolley
07-01-2009, 07:40 PM
Skinny guys who want to get big and don't gain much weight usually lift too often and eat too little.

I'm a skinny guy who can put on muscle rather quickly if I try. But I have to force feed myself more than I'm comfortable eating and I need to take days off between my lifting workouts.

cncretecwbo
07-02-2009, 01:34 PM
All I'm saying is that if you combine those two with a proper workout and nutrition plan, results will be seen. It might not work for everyone, but I'm living breathing proof that these supplements have legitimately allowed me to gain weight and strength. I used to be very skinny and have seen massive gains using those two supplements.

so you had "massive gains" from the creatine, protein and sugar. rock on

porchdoor
07-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Just thought I'd let you guys see my progression. It's a small progression, but I'm still proud of it. It sucks, cause as motivated as I am to work out, I often have to put it on hold to study for exams.

This is during my early workouts when I really didn't know what I was doing. I was in the 140-150lb range.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3682351453_ba885d8078.jpg?v=0
As you can see, very skinny. Very little muscle, very little bodyfat. My arms seem out of proportion from the rest of my body. And I had a nice flat stomach. This is a pose right after my workout, me flexing as hard as I can. So I was actually even more skinny than this post-workout swole.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/3682351731_e9a4843978.jpg?v=0
This is me now. My chest actually sticks out now, which is great. Arms are in better proportion with the rest of my body. Shoulders are a little more broad. Stomach not as flat as it used to be. Washboard abs would be nice, but that is not my main goal for right now. This is taken a good few hours after a workout, so this is how you would see me day to day. No flexing.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/3682351563_385cebef7a.jpg?v=0
This is me right after a workout. Much more masculine. I'm within 160-167lbs on any given day currently. Flexing.

So how's my progression? Is it moving too slow, or am I right on target? The timespan is about 9 months so far. So far, I know I have to work on my diet. Can't really see in the pics, but at certain angles my stomach looks like a 40-year-old woman's thigh (cottage city).

When I first started out, I was on Cell-Tech Hardcore creatine and ON 100% Whey. Now I'm on Cell-Mass and 100% Pro Amino protein.

Let me know what you guys think!

Rickson
07-02-2009, 03:41 PM
You definitely look fuller, but your gain is not pure muscle by a long shot. Your bodyfat has gone up quite a bit, but it happens more times than not during weight gain so don't worry too much. If you're looking to gain nothing but muscle mass, you need to gain weight at an extremely slow rate so if you're happy with a little higher bf while gaining a little more muscle, you're on a good pace.

porchdoor
07-02-2009, 03:47 PM
You definitely look fuller, but your gain is not pure muscle by a long shot. Your bodyfat has gone up quite a bit, but it happens more times than not during weight gain so don't worry too much. If you're looking to gain nothing but muscle mass, you need to gain weight at an extremely slow rate so if you're happy with a little higher bf while gaining a little more muscle, you're on a good pace.

Yeah, I understand. I acknowledge my bodyfat has gone WAY up. But I"ve resigned to the fact that I don't have the discipline to try and gain pure muscle. I don't mind a little bit of fat, but I have gained a lot. I still have a lot of work to do, as you can see.

Rickson
07-02-2009, 04:26 PM
Slow down your weight gain, porch. You seem uncomfortable with your bf gain so the best thing to do is to let your body adjust to the new weight.

porchdoor
02-18-2010, 04:01 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4369355332_cff4d10741.jpg

What's wrong with my chest?? Why won't it grow proportionately with the rest of my body? I'm pretty sure I'm doing everything right.

Right now, I'm doing 4 sets flat bench, 4 sets flat bench with close-grip, 4 sets incline, and 3-4 sets dips for my chest. For flat bench, I usually hit 9, 6, 5, 4.

At the flat bench, I'm hitting 150lbs. At the beginning of the semester I was hitting 135 at around the same reps. So my strength is increasing I guess.

I'm thinking I am doing things right (I am increasing my benches), but because I started out so weak my chest is out-of-proportionately smaller, but is still growing nonetheless. Maybe this is how a chest is supposed to look like when hitting only 150lbs (I know this isn't the best pose for a chest flex)? My goal by the end of the semester is to hit 215 6 times.

Give me any kind of input.

2/18/10: Weighing 164lbs.

tricky
02-18-2010, 04:23 PM
Look at your form and make sure you go deep with the dips. (Not so much with the flat bench, that could impinge the shoulders.)

Make sure you hit the chest at least twice a week. Preferably 3 times a week. You can add a "light" day for one of those days.

Aesthetically, you want to emphasize the upper pecs (so that your pecs don't get "droopy.") But that's also a much smaller muscle, and so it comes around more slowly.

coyfish
02-18-2010, 07:39 PM
Like tricky said it takes time. Everyone is different and certain muslces respond better for certain people.

I don't know if I would hit it 3 times a week . . . 2 times at the most imo. You need time to recover. Depends on the type of training you do too . . .

There are a lot of supporting muscles to bench as well. Your arms look big but you back / core / tri's might be lacking. Hard to judge from the hulk pose :).

Make sure you hit all areas of the chest. Dont forget flies (dumbell or cable). You are getting stronger so I would just keep working at it. Its all about intensity so if you can grab a spot to get that extra rep out. Don't get bogged down by numbers (of reps).


Edit: just saw the close grip part of your routine. If you do tri's / chest in the same day then you should leave the tri exersizes for after. That way you tri's won't burn out before your chest does.

What is your current split?

porchdoor
02-18-2010, 07:47 PM
Edit: just saw the close grip part of your routine. If you do tri's / chest in the same day then you should leave the tri exersizes for after. That way you tri's won't burn out before your chest does.

What is your current split?

Monday/Thursday:
Chest, Tri's, Shoulders

Tuesday/Friday:
Back and Bi's

coyfish
02-19-2010, 10:07 AM
Monday/Thursday:
Chest, Tri's, Shoulders

Tuesday/Friday:
Back and Bi's

You need a leg day. Frankly I think its best to work out each muscle group once a week (unless your doing hit or something like that). Especially for ectomorphs (naturally skinny). For us its best to workout hard and fast. With plenty recovery time. My workouts are never over 45 minutes long. I would also change that split. Working 2 major muscle gruops and tri's is a big day. But thats up to you.

When I go through HIT cycles I only workout 2X a week for 21 minutes.

Blask
05-25-2010, 03:12 PM
I'm definitely no expert on the subject but it might be worthwhile to mix up the chest routine with dumbells instead of the barbells/plates for a while to engage some more of those stabilizing muscles (if you aren't already).

Tofuspeedstar
05-26-2010, 03:55 PM
Squat like your life depended on it.

GuyClinch
05-27-2010, 04:32 AM
I wouldn't say I am an expert either.. However I have been working out for alot of years and have worked out with a top coach recently..

I don't like your overall routine - you need to simplify massively.
Many would point to the 5x5 routine. I don't think you need to be that rigid. But the general principal is important - fewer exercises per day done precisels.

But if you look at some of these routines you will see the general principal - fewer exercises (But more compound) and heavier weights..

I second the idea of a 4 day split for an aggressive workout program. You can put more energy into each workout this way and really concentrate on correct form while keeping track of your progress.

A.......................................B:
Squat 5x5..........................Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5................Overhead Press 5x5
Inverted Rows 3xF.............Deadlift 1x5
Push-ups 3xF.....................Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3x12.........Prone Bridges 3x30sec

That's the stronglifts program - I personally don't use that exact workout but its a good deal better then the one you are using IMHO.

For example I don't squat that much - but I deadlift more and I also use like lunges (as I think its an excellent movement for tennis) but its not useful for mass building at all.. I much prefer dumbell presses to bench presses etc.

Then again quite honestly I care little for 'adding bulk" its not necessary for tennis. I felt like this when I was younger too and its wrong headed. Worry about increasing strength or improving athletic performance..

I'd add that I believe a dynamic warmup - and a full stretching routine after each workout is important for injury prevention and better results. Yes you can 'get away' with no warmup and no stretching for many years but you will eventually pay huge price as your body starts to become unbalanced and rigid with regards to injury.. So you can see how doing fewer exercises can really help - otherwise with a workout like yours your going to spending the whole day in the gym. Truthfully I think your kind of workout can benefit someone on steroids. <g> But for normal indviduals its terrible. Its like a bad version of one of Arnold's old workouts..

dat604
05-27-2010, 08:30 AM
I wouldn't say I am an expert either.. However I have been working out for alot of years and have worked out with a top coach recently..

I don't like your overall routine - you need to simplify massively.
Many would point to the 5x5 routine. I don't think you need to be that rigid. But the general principal is important - fewer exercises per day done precisels.

But if you look at some of these routines you will see the general principal - fewer exercises (But more compound) and heavier weights..

I second the idea of a 4 day split for an aggressive workout program. You can put more energy into each workout this way and really concentrate on correct form while keeping track of your progress.

A.......................................B:
Squat 5x5..........................Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5................Overhead Press 5x5
Inverted Rows 3xF.............Deadlift 1x5
Push-ups 3xF.....................Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3x12.........Prone Bridges 3x30sec

That's the stronglifts program - I personally don't use that exact workout but its a good deal better then the one you are using IMHO.

For example I don't squat that much - but I deadlift more and I also use like lunges (as I think its an excellent movement for tennis) but its not useful for mass building at all.. I much prefer dumbell presses to bench presses etc.

Then again quite honestly I care little for 'adding bulk" its not necessary for tennis. I felt like this when I was younger too and its wrong headed. Worry about increasing strength or improving athletic performance..

I'd add that I believe a dynamic warmup - and a full stretching routine after each workout is important for injury prevention and better results. Yes you can 'get away' with no warmup and no stretching for many years but you will eventually pay huge price as your body starts to become unbalanced and rigid with regards to injury.. So you can see how doing fewer exercises can really help - otherwise with a workout like yours your going to spending the whole day in the gym. Truthfully I think your kind of workout can benefit someone on steroids. <g> But for normal indviduals its terrible. Its like a bad version of one of Arnold's old workouts..

+1... solid info and very well said. I can attest to the stretching part too.

Slazenger07
06-11-2010, 05:00 AM
1) Lift as heavy of weight as you can lift for 5 to 8 good reps.

1a) Beat your last workout EVERYTIME (i.e. add reps or more weight; try to add weight to the bar as often as you can).

2) Two sets per exercise (for most exercises); 8-12 sets total per workout

3) Lift 3 times per week for no more than 45 minutes per session

4) Eat lots

5) Do compound exercises (squats, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, etc).

6) Rest lots

7) Take a full week rest every 8 weeks

Pretty good advice, but id change a few things. You can lift more than 3 times a week, and imo you should be lifting 4-5 with a good split routine.

2 sets per exercise is not the general rule, it should be 3 sets per exercise most of the time, because it has been shown in studies that 3 sets of an exercise causes the most increase in testosterone levels. (which fuels muscle growth as you may know)
2 sets per exercise isnt bad and Id recommend doing this as a change up but 8/10 you should do 3 sets per exercise.

You can train for up to an hour, but after that you need to kick yourself out, I never train more than 1 hour at a time.

Lift as heavy as you can with good form, feeling the target muscle doing the work, aim for 6-12 reps.

If you want to stay lean and get the 'cut' look do what I do and eat 6-7 smaller meals a day to keep your metabolism up while still gaining muscle mass. If you want to be bigger/bulkier eat 3-4 big meals a day, as this will slow down your metabolism, allowing you to gain more mass faster, but on the down side you will gain more fat too.

JDC
06-11-2010, 05:18 AM
As others have said, what works for one person may not work for another. But, in my younger days I worked as a personal trainer and entered some local lifting contests - unfortunately, I'm more qualified to discuss this stuff than I am tennis. :) Anyway, whatever you're doing - EAT/DRINK PROTEIN! Lots of it. A good diet is absolutely crucial to strength training. Also, and I don't know enough about you to get real specific, but this works for anyone: (1) hit the squat rack; (2) learn to love the deadlift; (3) simplify the workout. Remember, you'll see lots of guys with skinny legs and big chest; you will hardly ever see a guy with strong legs and strong back with no chest.

Sleepstream
06-11-2010, 05:27 AM
If you want to stay lean and get the 'cut' look do what I do and eat 6-7 smaller meals a day to keep your metabolism up while still gaining muscle mass. If you want to be bigger/bulkier eat 3-4 big meals a day, as this will slow down your metabolism, allowing you to gain more mass faster, but on the down side you will gain more fat too.

This is incorrect.

JDC
06-11-2010, 05:42 AM
If you want to stay lean and get the 'cut' look do what I do and eat 6-7 smaller meals a day to keep your metabolism up while still gaining muscle mass. If you want to be bigger/bulkier eat 3-4 big meals a day, as this will slow down your metabolism, allowing you to gain more mass faster, but on the down side you will gain more fat too.

I'm with Sleepstream on this one - it may work for you, but I would not accept this as a general rule.

coyfish
06-11-2010, 07:39 AM
As others have said, what works for one person may not work for another. But, in my younger days I worked as a personal trainer and entered some local lifting contests - unfortunately, I'm more qualified to discuss this stuff than I am tennis. :) Anyway, whatever you're doing - EAT/DRINK PROTEIN! Lots of it. A good diet is absolutely crucial to strength training. Also, and I don't know enough about you to get real specific, but this works for anyone: (1) hit the squat rack; (2) learn to love the deadlift; (3) simplify the workout. Remember, you'll see lots of guys with skinny legs and big chest; you will hardly ever see a guy with strong legs and strong back with no chest.

You see guys with huge upper bodies in general and no legs all the time. Deadlift isn't a very popular exercise despite its mass building reputation.

What do you mean by "good diet?" You can gain all the strength you want eating like crap.

maverick66
06-11-2010, 08:01 AM
Deadlift isnt popular to because most commercial gyms frown upon it. Apparently it intimidates the other members so they dont like people doing it. They would rather have the machine people that never make a gain but pay their dues and keep coming back. Makes sense from a business look but sucks from a fitness one.

r2473
06-11-2010, 08:09 AM
Deadlift isnt popular to because most commercial gyms frown upon it. Apparently it intimidates the other members so they dont like people doing it. They would rather have the machine people that never make a gain but pay their dues and keep coming back. Makes sense from a business look but sucks from a fitness one.

Deads and Oly lifts are prohibited in most gyms.

I lift in the University gym (with the students, not the athletes). They are not allowed. I lift in the morning (7am) and the gym is generally pretty empty (especially now over the summer). The manager saw me doing deads one day and forced me to stop. I spoke with her and she does allow me to do them as long as I don't draw any attention to myself or drop the weight. That sort of sucks because it is pretty hard to control heavy weight back to ground without letting it drop some (it is also fairly dangerous). I was forced to drop my weight down considerably to train the muscles I needed to do "negative deadlifts". I'm back do doing decent weight, but it took some time.

I called around to several other gyms in the area and they all said no deads or oly lifts.

coyfish
06-11-2010, 08:35 AM
Yep same thing at my school's gym. I work out at the YMCA and there is no policy there as far as i know. I don't do very heavy deadlifts so I don't slam the weight but I have never been bothered. I have also done oly lifs.

spacediver
06-11-2010, 08:36 AM
I can't imagine working out in a gym that didnt' allow deadlifts. That's insanity. Perhaps hotel gyms or something I can understand, due to space and equipment limitations, but any self respecting gym should allow it.

r2473
06-11-2010, 08:44 AM
What gyms don't want is people banging weights. Normally when you do deads and olys, you will "drop" the weight to the floor. I don't mean that you just let go of it, but you generally don't lightly (noiselessly) set it down on the floor either.

Also, I think there is a greater chance of people getting hurt on these exercises if their form is less than perfect (which is very often the case with most lifters).

The day I got in trouble, I was going too heavy and basically dropping the weight to the floor. I was feeling a little weak that day and probably should have taken the day off. It really was all my fault. I'm just lucky that she lets me still do them. Her and her assistants were watching me hard the first few times back so I had to be extra gentle.

rjg007
06-11-2010, 09:41 AM
To get big take some protein shakes after your workout, they really do work, but make sure its a good make such as Maximuscle, then you know that you are not just pumping crap into your body.

Most of this has been said already but squats, bench press, etc are all good but I would add in pull ups. A great multi-muscle exercise and gets you great back muscles. You want to make sure that you do not become front heavy because you will start to hunch over as your chest muscles pull in but there is nothing on your back to counteract this. Never use machines they do not get you big, free weights work your balance and core and also more than one muscles in the muscle group you are targetting.

And the Bruce Lee core exercise mentioned by the OP is called a candlestick and you need to have super strong core to do it properly. Its currently in my tennis programme and I cant get my legs to point straight up while holding my back steady.

It is hard work getting big and you just need to stick at it and it will eventually happen.

maverick66
06-11-2010, 10:10 AM
I can't imagine working out in a gym that didnt' allow deadlifts. That's insanity. Perhaps hotel gyms or something I can understand, due to space and equipment limitations, but any self respecting gym should allow it.

They claim it scares the female members. That makes me laugh but whatever. I know a few gym owners and they claim its all about the money. They cant make enough money off of real lifters but can make a fortune off of soccer moms and older women that come in and sign up for every little class they offer. They will do anything not to scare these women off including throwing out stronger guys.

Please post elsewhere. You are embarrassing. Not to mention it's off topic and has nothing to do with tennis.

90% of the stuff posted in this section is non-tennis. I hate to break it to you but most people that work out do so to look better. It doesnt really matter either way. I do agree that there has been a little to much Bodybuilding.com vibe around here lately but thats only really one poster that is causing that.

r2473
06-11-2010, 10:24 AM
They claim it scares the female members. That makes me laugh but whatever. I know a few gym owners and they claim its all about the money. They cant make enough money off of real lifters but can make a fortune off of soccer moms and older women that come in and sign up for every little class they offer. They will do anything not to scare these women off including throwing out stronger guys.

I have to agree that this is the main reason.

coyfish
06-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Lol thats funny. I can see why though. They are not going to want to work out next to a guy deadlifting 400 lbs and slamming the weight on the ground. I don't blame them.

I can't stand some of the soccer moms in the gym . Seems like so many just lack common sense. Like not moving a few steps back so people can get in front and take free weights . . . A simple concept.

Power Player
06-11-2010, 11:04 AM
I won't join a gym that won't me deadlift. It's one of the best lifts you can do. I don't slam my weights and have stopped pulling big weight to save my joints. So I am thoughtful of others. I need my Deads. Add pullups after that and by the time you finish off the day with some curls, your arms will be aflame.

new_tennis_player
06-11-2010, 11:07 AM
The ones who are most obnoxious will do 10 or 12 sets of 5 lbs with 25 reps with a 2 minute rest in between sets.

I politely asked one if I could work in and she shouted: 'you'll change my settings!'


Lol thats funny. I can see why though. They are not going to want to work out next to a guy deadlifting 400 lbs and slamming the weight on the ground. I don't blame them.

I can't stand some of the soccer moms in the gym . Seems like so many just lack common sense. Like not moving a few steps back so people can get in front and take free weights . . . A simple concept.

r2473
06-11-2010, 11:30 AM
I can't stand some of the soccer moms in the gym . Seems like so many just lack common sense. Like not moving a few steps back so people can get in front and take free weights . . . A simple concept.

Don't get me started on weight room etiquette (though I am sure it would make an entertaining thread in itself).

Our gym is so bad I just have to turn up my headphones and close my eyes. I realized very quickly that people will do whatever they feel like doing and there is no point asking them to change / be considerate / use common sense.

coyfish
06-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Yeah that's annoying. Similar thing happened to me the other day. Super mom was using the bench press, captains chair, and a free weight bench and doing a circuit type thing during peak hours. I started doing dips when she went to the bench and she actually came over to tell me she wasn't done arrogantly.

r2473
06-11-2010, 12:22 PM
Yeah that's annoying. Similar thing happened to me the other day. Super mom was using the bench press, captains chair, and a free weight bench and doing a circuit type thing during peak hours. I started doing dips when she went to the bench and she actually came over to tell me she wasn't done arrogantly.

I usually just keep in the back of my mind that people like this never last long in the gym anyway (and they certainly don't last long coming in at 7am). I just let them go about their business, expecting to never see them again.

I ran into a circuit trainer on the free weight floor one time in the past X years. She sort of did the same thing your lady did. I just let her go about her business. I actually saw her again a few weeks later. She wasn't circuit training. I expect somebody else confronted her on it.

new_tennis_player
06-11-2010, 02:59 PM
You guys are making a good argument for women's gyms. Unless it's Charlize Theron of course. :)

JDC
06-11-2010, 04:32 PM
What do you mean by "good diet?" You can gain all the strength you want eating like crap.

Yeah, you're actually right. I meant that to gain the type of lean muscle you'd want for tennis (and the pool), a good diet is key, especially if you're over 25. If you just want to get big and lift weights, you're right, just get some calories. Also, by "diet," I really mean a solid eating plan - I don't mean dry salad and lemon water - lean protein, protein shakes after a workout, less sugar, whole grains, etc.

What I'm absolutely blown away by are all the references to gyms not allowing deadlifts. That's insane! I've worked out in everything from basement style dungeons to tennis clubs, and have never heard of the deadlift being banned outright. Now, if you're dropping weights and bouncing them like an idiot, ok, but the ban seems like an overreaction.

Sleepstream
06-11-2010, 04:50 PM
You should say that you are doing reverse hack squats instead of deadlifts.

maverick66
06-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Could be like the Planet Fitness Lunk alarm. That is a major step back for gyms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfJTXDppVNA

OrangeOne
06-11-2010, 06:34 PM
Hmm, new to this thread, and noticed some discussion of the post by r2473. I also was going to post a reply to the thread from scratch, but r24's post covers almost everything, so I'll just comment on it. Here's my thoughts in the context of adding size, for someone who is moderately experienced (not a new lifter):

1) Lift as heavy of weight as you can lift for 5 to 8 good reps.

I'd say 6 to 12, especially at the higher end for new lifters. That said, the body doesn't really notice the difference of a few reps anyways. I'm always comfortable seeing someone lift a slightly lighter weight a few more times.

1a) Beat your last workout EVERYTIME (i.e. add reps or more weight; try to add weight to the bar as often as you can).Can't agree. I'd say regularly, but not every time. Lifting to almost failure is important, but beating your last every time just isn't realistic. Some days you'll feel great and smash a barrier, some days you'll feel crap and settle for a rep or two under last time, just for the sake of maintenance. Still, it is a good goal I suppose.

2) Two sets per exercise (for most exercises); 8-12 sets total per workoutSure, 2 hard sets... no problem with that. 3 may be better for some, 2-3 is the magic number. Super-setting 2 sets of opposing exercises can allow for a very efficient workout (agonist / antagonist pairings, like bench and seated row, etc).

3) Lift 3 times per week for no more than 45 minutes per sessionDepends on the person, the time available, the experience, and the goals.

4) Eat lots

5) Do compound exercises (squats, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press, etc).

6) Rest lots
Solid, solid advice, ignored by many. Especially on the eat lots - far more important to eat lots than it is to obsess about protein.

7) Take a full week rest every 8 weeksAs mentioned above, I'd prefer to see people take a recovery week every 4th week - active recovery where you dial it back to the levels you were doing in week 1 or 2, and then progress again from week 3 in the 1st week of the next block of 4. This is a very cut down reference to 'periodisation', which one can read a lot about if interested, and I'd encourage anyone lifting seriously to read a lot about!

coyfish
06-12-2010, 08:13 AM
Could be like the Planet Fitness Lunk alarm. That is a major step back for gyms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfJTXDppVNA

lol that is the lamest thing I have ever seen. Hes like the only guy in the gym too. They really have to blast the alarm before they walk over there . . .

Edit: Im surprised that place hasn't been sued over that. People lifting heavy and holding their breath to uphold the grunt rule and end up passing out / dropping the weight on themselves.

maverick66
06-12-2010, 09:19 AM
^^ Ah yes. Well, that leads me to the all important rule #8.

8. Don't take as gospel what some random jackass on the internet thinks is the "correct" way to lift (especially if that jackass has some idiotic name like r2473). Random ramblings by internet jackasses might be good to use as very general guidelines, but it is more important to get off your *** and see what works best for you.

Best rule I have ever seen. To many people are looking for the holy grail of training when in reality most of the strongest guys out there discovered it on their own. Right now I am reading a book on the old time powerlifters and most of them discovered how to do things in the group. They didnt look up on the internet how to do anything they just lifted and found what worked for them. Its a lost thought and its a shame that not many are doing it that way anymore.

Edit: Im surprised that place hasn't been sued over that. People lifting heavy and holding their breath to uphold the grunt rule and end up passing out / dropping the weight on themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ6OrO1f610&feature=related

Its complete bs. I would never go into one of those places. I refuse to call it a gym as they dont want people lifting weights in there.

porchdoor
07-12-2010, 06:09 PM
Been hitting the gym hard as usual. My chest is growing slowly, but surely. I've determined that my chest will just respond a lot slower than the rest of my muscles, so I'm just gonna have to keep hitting it hard for the next several months/years.

To all you folks who keep criticizing my weight training saying that it does no good for tennis, I would like to say this: I know that. I have no intention in trying to work out to better my tennis, and I never will. I started out tennis pretty young and I'm still pretty freaking good at it. I play for fun, I ain't no pro.

To all you folks who keep saying that being bulky isn't ideal, that no one wants to look like a " 'roided-up freak," and that women actually prefer men who aren't bulky but instead cut, it's perfectly fine if that's what you want....however, I want to look like that 'roided up freak. But I'll do it the natural way.

With that said, I've made some small gains. I've also gained a nice gut and a double-chin. I'll start my cutting phase when winter break starts.

My current split is still the same: Mon/Tue Chest/Tris/Shoulders, Thur/Fri Back/Traps/Bis.
When Fall semester starts up again and I'm actually living on campus in walking distance to the gym, I'll be trying a new split:
Mon/Thur: Chest, Tri's
Tues/Fri: Back, Bi's
Wed/Sat: Legs, Core, Shoulders

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4788226173_255f3164f1.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4788232507_dbc48bc77c.jpg