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kojuten
10-23-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm in my senior year and i'm having a hard time trying to find a work out that will prepare me for my last high school tennis season and also help with college endurance and such.

Can anyone give me some plans or work outs that colleges do.

Thanks

TW Staff
10-24-2008, 06:20 AM
I'm in my senior year and i'm having a hard time trying to find a work out that will prepare me for my last high school tennis season and also help with college endurance and such.

Can anyone give me some plans or work outs that colleges do.

Thanks


I would just try to get as fit as you can. You would have to work at it everyday. I would start off running a mile or two a day. Do some core work that includes different ab exercises and work on your stretching. I would work on your diet as well. Cut down your portions and keep snacking to a minimum. Start small and eventually increase your running, core workout and stretching. Some people might say that you should work on some foot work drills and this would help too, however you have to find something that you like that you can do consistently. I am the most fit I have been at age 31 and I never felt like I was ever out of shape during my high school and college tennis playing years. What I have mentioned above has been my recipe to how I have shaved 17 pounds in the last 2-3 months. My endurance and footwork has never been better. Good luck, but don't forget about your tennis game either.

Danny, TW

nytennisaddict
10-24-2008, 06:35 AM
I'm in my senior year and i'm having a hard time trying to find a work out that will prepare me for my last high school tennis season and also help with college endurance and such.

Can anyone give me some plans or work outs that colleges do.

Thanks
From a fitness perspective... I have been using this workout described here to attempt to be competitive (fitness-wise) with D1, D2 players...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=227927

I read in one of my tennis books that a coach at a top ranked D1 school used a 5:15min/mile stat as a baseline criteria of fitness.

Pusher
10-24-2008, 07:28 AM
I doubt very few, if any, high school players are in shape for college tennis. Every college program is different but my son plays D-1 (freshman) and I thought he was in shape when he got there-wrong.

He spends about 25 hours a week on court plus weight lifting 5 days/wk at 5:30 in the morning plus distance running 3 days/wk. Every moment he is not in class he is doing something tennis related. He quits at about 7pm and studies until he goes to bed. He's dropped 15 lbs and is constantly tired.

This may not be the norm at most colleges and in fact he is on court more than the NCAA allows. It would take a very disciplined high school player to achieve the level of fitness required at my son's school. But to answer your question-run a lot-distance and 400's mostly. Weight train if you can.

nytennisaddict
10-24-2008, 07:43 AM
I doubt very few, if any, high school players are in shape for college tennis. Every college program is different but my son plays D-1 (freshman) and I thought he was in shape when he got there-wrong.

He spends about 25 hours a week on court plus weight lifting 5 days/wk at 5:30 in the morning plus distance running 3 days/wk. Every moment he is not in class he is doing something tennis related. He quits at about 7pm and studies until he goes to bed. He's dropped 15 lbs and is constantly tired.

This may not be the norm at most colleges and in fact he is on court more than the NCAA allows. It would take a very disciplined high school player to achieve the level of fitness required at my son's school. But to answer your question-run a lot-distance and 400's mostly. Weight train if you can.

Would be nice to get a detailed workout description + times + goals :) "A lot" is interpretted many different ways. When I was 205lbs, "a lot" meant 1 mile without stopping :P

Pusher
10-24-2008, 07:43 AM
From a fitness perspective... I have been using this workout described here to attempt to be competitive (fitness-wise) with D1, D2 players...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=227927

I read in one of my tennis books that a coach at a top ranked D1 school used a 5:15min/mile stat as a baseline criteria of fitness.

It would be tough to be competetive with the fitness level of many college players. My son's school requires a 5:30 mile which, in my opinion, is more of a gut check than a necessity for being a good player. He's running under 5:00but it comes at a steep price. I'm not convinced that being a solid distance runner is necessary for tennis. But it does weed out the less than 100% committed players.

nytennisaddict
10-24-2008, 07:51 AM
It would be tough to competetive with the fitness level of many college players. My son's school requires a 5:30 mile which, in my opinion, is more of a gut check than a necessity for being a good player. He's running under 5:00but it comes at a steep price. I'm not convinced that being a solid distance runner is necessary for tennis. But it does weed out the less than 100% committed players.
Thx! That's exactly the type of detail I was looking for :) Just from a fitness perspective it shows that I'm a good 1 min 30s (mile time) off the fitness level of a D1 player! I'm guessing it will take me a year to get there. It's amazing (to me) that your son is running sub-5min.

I agree, your mile time doesn't translate to being a good tennis player, but it is a decent metric for how long you can keep up a high intensity (eg. how much work can you do). After all, good technique only gets you so far in tennis - it's all about running around to get into position to execute your technique... over, and over, and over again :)

The endurance/sprint training I've been doing over the last 6 mos has definitely shown itself in playing... eg. I no longer worry about staying in a point for 20 shots, throughout the course of a match, which often takes a toll on less fit opponents.

Pusher
10-24-2008, 08:02 AM
Thx! That's exactly the type of detail I was looking for :) Just from a fitness perspective it shows that I'm a good 1 min 30s (mile time) off the fitness level of a D1 player! I'm guessing it will take me a year to get there. It's amazing (to me) that your son is running sub-5min.

I agree, your mile time doesn't translate to being a good tennis player, but it is a decent metric for how long you can keep up a high intensity (eg. how much work can you do). After all, good technique only gets you so far in tennis - it's all about running around to get into position to execute your technique... over, and over, and over again :)

The endurance/sprint training I've been doing over the last 6 mos has definitely shown itself in playing... eg. I no longer worry about staying in a point for 20 shots, throughout the course of a match, which often takes a toll on less fit opponents.

I think sprint training is more effective than distance running. College matches are at most 3 sets.

Tennis players come in all shapes and sizes and a sub 5 minute mile does not translate into being better than a guy that runs a 6 minute mile. I can see a basic level of fitness as a requirement but distance running really eats into your explosive movement on court. Thats just my opinion and some college coaches would disagree. I defer to their judgement.

nytennisaddict
10-24-2008, 08:17 AM
I think sprint training is more effective than distance running. College matches are at most 3 sets.

Tennis players come in all shapes and sizes and a sub 5 minute mile does not translate into being better than a guy that runs a 6 minute mile. I can see a basic level of fitness as a requirement but distance running really eats into your explosive movement on court. Thats just my opinion and some college coaches would disagree. I defer to their judgement.
I agree.. I think sprint training is more effective than distance training...

The 1 mile time is a fairly "short" distance, and IMO (and from what I've read) a decent metric for your stamina... I do train with a guy that does ~5min miles (I run 6.22) , and just to give you some comparisions for times when we do sprints...

* his 400m are all at or under 60s (my best 70... tailing off to 80s toward the end of the workout)
* his 100m ~ 12s (mine ~14s)

And he can keep up these times with a short rest for 10-15 sets...

In tennis (to me) this translates to working as hard for every point deep into the third set, whereas I might be a step slower early in the match, but by the third set, I've lost a step and a half (eg. 70->80s 400m) and my opponent is still going strong.

I've been reading alot about how to improve mile times, and it's interesting that the workouts that track people use (eg. sprint intervals: 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m), are exactly what tennis folks need :) And while we never "run a mile" in tennis, track folks often predict their short distance times based on their mile time (and vice versa).

So now fitness aside, it seems like I'm about 10-15 hrs of on court time shy of what your son is doing as well... now if only real life (family, work, etc...) didn't intervene :P

Daycrawler
10-24-2008, 09:16 AM
It would be tough to competetive with the fitness level of many college players. My son's school requires a 5:30 mile which, in my opinion, is more of a gut check than a necessity for being a good player. He's running under 5:00but it comes at a steep price. I'm not convinced that being a solid distance runner is necessary for tennis. But it does weed out the less than 100% committed players.
If your son's D1 coach is running them more then 3 miles three times a week then the coach is a moron. The UCLA coach runs his players a maximum of 2.5 miles 3x week. Running a player anymore than that ruins his explosive steps off the baseline and so forth for when he attempts to get a ball. I would suggest, doing weights. 3 sets of 12 for three weeks, 3 sets of 8, then 3 sets of 6 then back to the 3 sets of 12 at a much higher weight. Your body levels off when you only do the same workout rountine thats why people fail in the gym because they don't change up their workout enough so their body prepares and knows how to deal with the workout. If they change it then the body tears the muscles to build the muscle where they can achieve better results. I would also do suicides on the court. Skip the first line and go middle back, opposite singles alley back, doubles alley back, fence back. Do ten of these, breaking for only 10 secs of rest between each run. Full speed. You should be able to do one suicide like this in under 15.5 seconds. If not your not fast enough and will eventually be able to do it quick. You also have to work on the short steps and look up various footwork drills. Good Luck.

nytennisaddict
10-24-2008, 10:42 AM
I would also do suicides on the court. Skip the first line and go middle back, opposite singles alley back, doubles alley back, fence back. Do ten of these, breaking for only 10 secs of rest between each run. Full speed. You should be able to do one suicide like this in under 15.5 seconds. If not your not fast enough and will eventually be able to do it quick. You also have to work on the short steps and look up various footwork drills. Good Luck.
Interesting variation of doing 100m sprints (eg. my 100m sprint is ~14s)... but probably better for tennis specific foot work. Question is, is there a metric that folks can use (eg. when compared to D1+ level college players) to determine if they are even close (fitness wise)to doing similar volume/intensity?

The convenient thing about using track results, is that they are universal, and comparable to all althletes across sports.

Pusher
10-24-2008, 01:44 PM
If your son's D1 coach is running them more then 3 miles three times a week then the coach is a moron. The UCLA coach runs his players a maximum of 2.5 miles 3x week. Running a player anymore than that ruins his explosive steps off the baseline and so forth for when he attempts to get a ball. I would suggest, doing weights. 3 sets of 12 for three weeks, 3 sets of 8, then 3 sets of 6 then back to the 3 sets of 12 at a much higher weight. Your body levels off when you only do the same workout rountine thats why people fail in the gym because they don't change up their workout enough so their body prepares and knows how to deal with the workout. If they change it then the body tears the muscles to build the muscle where they can achieve better results. I would also do suicides on the court. Skip the first line and go middle back, opposite singles alley back, doubles alley back, fence back. Do ten of these, breaking for only 10 secs of rest between each run. Full speed. You should be able to do one suicide like this in under 15.5 seconds. If not your not fast enough and will eventually be able to do it quick. You also have to work on the short steps and look up various footwork drills. Good Luck.

I'm not so sure the UCLA coach is the authority on fitness but I generally agree with you.

kojuten
10-25-2008, 07:14 PM
Thanks guys,
the replies helped

Otherside
10-26-2008, 11:21 AM
I doubt very few, if any, high school players are in shape for college tennis. Every college program is different but my son plays D-1 (freshman) and I thought he was in shape when he got there-wrong.

He spends about 25 hours a week on court plus weight lifting 5 days/wk at 5:30 in the morning plus distance running 3 days/wk. Every moment he is not in class he is doing something tennis related. He quits at about 7pm and studies until he goes to bed. He's dropped 15 lbs and is constantly tired.

This may not be the norm at most colleges and in fact he is on court more than the NCAA allows. It would take a very disciplined high school player to achieve the level of fitness required at my son's school. But to answer your question-run a lot-distance and 400's mostly. Weight train if you can.

lifting weights 5 times a week with all that kardio being done is such a huge waste. Once a week on a resting day with say a 1500 kcal plus intake would ba alot smarter

Daycrawler
10-26-2008, 07:10 PM
I'm not so sure the UCLA coach is the authority on fitness but I generally agree with you.

I was just saying generally as an example like a Really good D1 school and how he trains his players.

tennismike33
10-29-2008, 09:44 AM
I run a junior college program and none of our running drills are distance related drills. We do all sprint drills. A great portion of the drills are done at percentage speeds. Many sprints are done at 50-75% that cover more than 2 courts, as the athletes sprint the length of 3 courts, that is as big as we have. The speed drills are all done at 100% explosiveness. We have been doing these drills for 5 weeks and a few of the athletes have commented that they feel stronger in their legs. A coach can wear his players out becasue they want to watch their athletes run, becasue that is what went on in the old days. Smarter coaching with more intense workouts works best for tennis, IMO.

nytennisaddict
10-29-2008, 10:03 AM
After reading this thread, and a similar one in another forum:

http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10310

I had to get to the bottom of why do different types of training. I picked up this book: http://www.amazon.com/Total-Heart-Rate-Training-Customize/dp/1569755620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225299656&sr=8-1

I highly recommend it for anyone serious about improving their tennis fitness (or anyone in general interested in getting into "shape").

Talks about the different zones (eg. sprints vs. long distance) to train in, and why... and *how* to train in each zone (and why).

When I can, I'll likely change my "cardio" workouts (x2-3) to be more sprint oriented 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m (and still work on my mile time since I've since ina couple different places that D1 schools expect you to run ~5:15-30).

BergTennis03
10-29-2008, 10:57 AM
i played D1 tennis, and it really depends on the program that you are involved with as to the fitness training you will do. From a personal experience, my coach was an idiot and we really did not do much conditioning... my cousin is a former 7 year hitting coach of the williams sisters. he has a tennis specific conditioning program he has done called futuremetrics.

the focus here is not on distance running. A good mile time is good, and it's important to be in shape, but who gives a crap how far you can run? Tennis is more about how long you can stay on the court moving between 15/20 feet quickly. You should really focus on getting stronger and quicker in this area, especially if your mile time is off. Getting quicker here will improve your mile time naturally.

Focus on quick step jumprope, plyos, star drill. Do a lot of line running, and quick movement sort or stuff. Plyos, squats, and jump drills to focus on the legs, and always work on strengthening the core and lower back muscles.

I am going to e-mail my cousin and see if he will e-mail me his futuremetrics regime, and I will post it on here if he will give it to me. Good luck with the training!!

nytennisaddict
10-29-2008, 11:47 AM
In general I agree with everything you state.. I think the reason the mile time is valuable (while not specifically valuable to tennis)... is that it has been posing as a universal measurable metric you can use to compare athletes. Obviously you could use smaller distances like 20ft, 20yd, 40yd, 100m, etc... but they are not necessarily great indicators of how well someone will hold up endurance wise over 3 sets. I think the mile time was used as a "tweener" measurement to indicate speed, and endurance.

Using a running calculator I found, my 100m time, it predicts that I should beable to run a mile in <5min... which tells me (since my mile time is ~6:15), that while I may have the speed, I need to work on endurance... similarly if you have good mile time, but your 100m are a bit slow, it might indicate you need to work on speed (but your endurance is decent).

Obviously this is just a general observation, and even shorter distnce speds are more important... but I haven't read of any other uniform metric that are used by high level tennis players/clubs/teams/colleges... There is something called the "beep test" that is supposedly universal measurement of endurance, speed and agility, but I have not seen a chart for tennis players, that I can use to set my goals.

Coach Carter
11-04-2008, 08:41 PM
i played D1 tennis, and it really depends on the program that you are involved with as to the fitness training you will do. From a personal experience, my coach was an idiot and we really did not do much conditioning... my cousin is a former 7 year hitting coach of the williams sisters. he has a tennis specific conditioning program he has done called futuremetrics.

the focus here is not on distance running. A good mile time is good, and it's important to be in shape, but who gives a crap how far you can run? Tennis is more about how long you can stay on the court moving between 15/20 feet quickly. You should really focus on getting stronger and quicker in this area, especially if your mile time is off. Getting quicker here will improve your mile time naturally.

Focus on quick step jumprope, plyos, star drill. Do a lot of line running, and quick movement sort or stuff. Plyos, squats, and jump drills to focus on the legs, and always work on strengthening the core and lower back muscles.

I am going to e-mail my cousin and see if he will e-mail me his futuremetrics regime, and I will post it on here if he will give it to me. Good luck with the training!!

BergTennis...you're dead on with your advice. I stay away from distance work with my players because as you mentioned...tennis deals with lots of short sprints.

Things like "suicides", but high reps of 1 court (all lines). Really focusing on "busting it"...no lazy suicides...push yourself. Lots of variations of it...not always straight sprinting it. Lots of jump ropes or quick line jumps...great for the legs. Tons of crunches and tons of push ups!

kojuten
11-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Do colleges or high school teams also (my coach is not very good so he wouldn't have an opinion on this) emphasize or put jump roping as a work out?

NickC
11-04-2008, 09:23 PM
Pyramid suicides on a football field are a great workout, if you can go all out for the entire thing.

nytennisaddict
11-05-2008, 07:27 AM
These are all great ideas for how to train... but how do you compare your fitness level to that of college player (any division) or pro even? The only "universal" metric I've seen is the mile time (<5:30) to compare if I'm at least close to being as fit as a D1 player (hitting and movement skills aside of course).

eg. How can I determine if the training I'm doing is effective, and actually causing me to improve fitness-wise (eg. am I dogging it, should I be pushing harder, etc... or best case scenario... I'm in as good shape, I just need to focus on more skills!)

untill i find another more suitable tennis related metric... i'll still be working on getting my mile time (and quarter mile time intervals) down to the 5:15 and sub minute times respectively.

Daycrawler
11-05-2008, 09:53 AM
These are all great ideas for how to train... but how do you compare your fitness level to that of college player (any division) or pro even? The only "universal" metric I've seen is the mile time (<5:30) to compare if I'm at least close to being as fit as a D1 player (hitting and movement skills aside of course).

eg. How can I determine if the training I'm doing is effective, and actually causing me to improve fitness-wise (eg. am I dogging it, should I be pushing harder, etc... or best case scenario... I'm in as good shape, I just need to focus on more skills!)

untill i find another more suitable tennis related metric... i'll still be working on getting my mile time (and quarter mile time intervals) down to the 5:15 and sub minute times respectively.
Yeah but long distance running hurts your short speed so that's not a great example of fitness either though. Just do what I do, before I practice I work out hard core, circuit training, bench press to dumbell press to lat pull down to rowing machine to 200 russian twists, and do three sets of that. 12 reps of a high weight. Like for me I do 12 reps of 145-170 lbs on bench to doing two 40 lbs dumbbells then etc. It gets you wicked tired and then you go to your practice tired and you build that mental toughness and how to play tired. It will suck the first few days but after that your game picks up alot and you realize your physical fitness is amazing.

nytennisaddict
11-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Yeah but long distance running hurts your short speed so that's not a great example of fitness either though. Just do what I do, before I practice I work out hard core, circuit training, bench press to dumbell press to lat pull down to rowing machine to 200 russian twists, and do three sets of that. 12 reps of a high weight. Like for me I do 12 reps of 145-170 lbs on bench to doing two 40 lbs dumbbells then etc. It gets you wicked tired and then you go to your practice tired and you build that mental toughness and how to play tired. It will suck the first few days but after that your game picks up alot and you realize your physical fitness is amazing.
Again, great workout tips.. but still doesn't provide a good metric of fitness (particularly speed and endurance)to compare yourself to other tennis folks at different levels.

I have been resistence training for some time (at my strongest I benched 305, squat 405x10, etc..., but probably couldn't run a mile is faster than 10min!m or last more than 4 shots in a hard hitting rally)

I actually think resistance training before tennis can hurt you (eg. tennis is very explosive and if you're tired from resistance training, you can pull something)... but that's another discussion :P

I agree running distance (eg >2miles) is not great for tennis (good for general endurance), which is why i focus on only running sprints of distances 400m or less to improve my mile time.

Daycrawler
11-06-2008, 08:46 AM
Again, great workout tips.. but still doesn't provide a good metric of fitness (particularly speed and endurance)to compare yourself to other tennis folks at different levels.

I have been resistence training for some time (at my strongest I benched 305, squat 405x10, etc..., but probably couldn't run a mile is faster than 10min!m or last more than 4 shots in a hard hitting rally)

I actually think resistance training before tennis can hurt you (eg. tennis is very explosive and if you're tired from resistance training, you can pull something)... but that's another discussion :P

I agree running distance (eg >2miles) is not great for tennis (good for general endurance), which is why i focus on only running sprints of distances 400m or less to improve my mile time.
Why not go train with the local college? I know a kid in our section goes down and trains with University Of Arizona once a week. That's a great way to gauge yourself. If you talk to the coach and just ask him if you can run with them and do all their workout drills I'm sure he won't mind and it also gets you an in with a coach. I know alot of coaches don't mind that at all. It doesn't break NCAA standards either because you are just running and its not a visit or anything.
Also, if you throw up less than four times a day then you are in good shape for them. :)

nytennisaddict
11-06-2008, 11:06 AM
Why not go train with the local college? I know a kid in our section goes down and trains with University Of Arizona once a week. That's a great way to gauge yourself. If you talk to the coach and just ask him if you can run with them and do all their workout drills I'm sure he won't mind and it also gets you an in with a coach. I know alot of coaches don't mind that at all. It doesn't break NCAA standards either because you are just running and its not a visit or anything.
Also, if you throw up less than four times a day then you are in good shape for them. :)

You know, that's a great idea... I'll contact a couple local colleges by me... not sure I'll be able to match schedules though (got the 9-5 thing going on)...

Daycrawler
11-06-2008, 01:28 PM
You know, that's a great idea... I'll contact a couple local colleges by me... not sure I'll be able to match schedules though (got the 9-5 thing going on)...

Alot of times they train early mornings and late nights though.

marc
11-06-2008, 03:49 PM
mile or 1.5 mile tests are strictly to measure general fitness. coaches that use them will usually only use them in the beginning of the fall to make sure the players don't come back like slobs and periodically before or after breaks in the calendar. a fit male college player should be able to run 1.5 under 9 min as this is a benchmark used for elite 17-18 yr old juniors.

the beep test is another great baseline fitness test and is closer to tennis movement than a pure distance run as the beep test involved changing direction and shorter distances. the beep test actually is quite good.

the USTA sports science site will have a few items you can test players on and benchmark times for certain ages.

spiders, hexagons, 12 ball drills, 17s are all good exercises you can do on court that are tennis specific and are more conducive to improved tennis performance than running distance multiple times per week (assuming you are not in an off-season cycle).

this leads to a last point- your fitness training should dovetail with your tennis calendar. if you are in a competitive cycle, the fitness should be tapered down, if you are in a practice cycle and far from competition, tennis itself can be tapered and the training can be heavier volume.

del
01-16-2009, 10:43 AM
I'm in my senior year and i'm having a hard time trying to find a work out that will prepare me for my last high school tennis season and also help with college endurance and such.

Can anyone give me some plans or work outs that colleges do.

Thanks

If you are still figuring out what will work best for preparing for college tennis, might I suggest you focus on what will work best for you individually? Becoming the best you can be and setting structured goals would be a great place to start.

If you haven't found this site already, it is definitely worth checking out:
http://etcheberryexperience.com/ to see how the the best of the best get reach their goals with the help of Pat Etcheberry. He also has DVD's training aids that are worth considering as well.

Good luck!

tennismike33
01-17-2009, 02:10 PM
There are a lot of great ideas here and many of the excersises will prepare you for the most rigorious tennis programs in college. Please allow me to remind you of two other points you want to consider. Make sure you are eating a balanced diet as well as getting enough rest and time off. If you are working hard on the court you can do things in 90 minutes and that is enough time. Just focus your workouts on improving your weaknesses and increasing your strengths.

Most important, have fun doing everything!!!