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View Full Version : DeJaVu All Over Again - PS Tour 90 v. New Pete Frame


Bubba
11-07-2008, 07:42 AM
Okay... alot of us getting wound up over the new PS Tour 90 Pete Signature frame coming out 'any month now'.

I'd like to lay out my prediction that the 'new' frame will actually be more like the PS Tour 90 (pre nCode) frame.

Any takers?

IMO the PS Tour 90 was the best frame that got grossly overlooked due to Pete's retirement and Fed's coming on the scene.

It was a great bridge between the PS85 and what is now the k90.

FYI - here are the specs on the 'original' PS Tour 90...

Balance: 9 pts HL
Cross Section: 17 mm Flat Beam
Grip Size: 4 1/4"-4 5/8"
Headsize: 90
Length: 27"
Material: 80% braided Hyper Carbon Graphite, 20% Kevlar
Series: Hyper Pro Staff
SI: 6.0
String Pattern: 16x19
Swing Style: Fast and Long
String Tension: 50-60 lbs
Weight: 12.5 oz. (strung)
Weight 351 grams
Power : 1960
SW: 325
Flex 67

Oh, yeah... and it had the best pj of any of the recent 90's!

Pushmaster
11-07-2008, 07:52 AM
We can only hope the new Sampras will be good as the Tour 90. I have my doubts though, mainly due to the lower grade graphite they're putting into these newer sticks.

Azzurri
11-07-2008, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=Bubba;2846678]Okay... alot of us getting wound up over the new PS Tour 90 Pete Signature frame coming out 'any month now'.

I'd like to lay out my prediction that the 'new' frame will actually be more like the PS Tour 90 (pre nCode) frame.

Any takers?

IMO the PS Tour 90 was the best frame that got grossly overlooked due to Pete's retirement and Fed's coming on the scene.

It was a great bridge between the PS85 and what is now the k90.

FYI - here are the specs on the 'original' PS Tour 90...

Balance: 9 pts HL
Cross Section: 17 mm Flat Beam
Grip Size: 4 1/4"-4 5/8"
Headsize: 90
Length: 27"
Material: 80% braided Hyper Carbon Graphite, 20% Kevlar
Series: Hyper Pro Staff
SI: 6.0
String Pattern: 16x19
Swing Style: Fast and Long
String Tension: 50-60 lbs
Weight: 12.5 oz. (strung)
Weight 351 grams
Power : 1960
SW: 325

your specs are a little different than TW's review. If yours are correct..I would use this racquet. The SW you list is 325..less than the PS 85. The PS Tour 90 had a higher SW then that.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/WT90/WT90Review.html
Flex 67

stormholloway
11-07-2008, 08:58 AM
As I recall, the PS Tour 90 weighed 12.7 ounces, not 12.5.

Bubba
11-07-2008, 09:02 AM
The TW review you reference states...
"The Tour 90 weighs in at 12.7 ounces strung, and has a swingweight of 332 RDC"

Two Issues here...
1) Static Weight Difference
2) Resulting SW Difference

their 12.7 is higher than the 12.5 oz spec I have from Wilson... therefore, I assume that's why the TW review carries the SW 8 points higher. Gotta' love Wilson's quality control.

If TW followed it's current practice of carrying the 'Average Specs' then perhaps it's closer.

Bottom line... very good specs to fit 'between' the PS85 and the K90.

Point of my OP was that I believe the new PS Tour Sampras will 'BE' our old friend the PS Tour 90 with new paint job and re-titled carbon component.

I've got money that says those who try the new frame beside the old PS TOUR 90 will prefer.....

stormholloway
11-07-2008, 09:04 AM
The PS Tour 90 was double braided as well, right? And that's different than than 6.0? Or no?

Azzurri
11-07-2008, 09:18 AM
The TW review you reference states...
"The Tour 90 weighs in at 12.7 ounces strung, and has a swingweight of 332 RDC"

Two Issues here...
1) Static Weight Difference
2) Resulting SW Difference

their 12.7 is higher than the 12.5 oz spec I have from Wilson... therefore, I assume that's why the TW review carries the SW 8 points higher. Gotta' love Wilson's quality control.

If TW followed it's current practice of carrying the 'Average Specs' then perhaps it's closer.

Bottom line... very good specs to fit 'between' the PS85 and the K90.

Point of my OP was that I believe the new PS Tour Sampras will 'BE' our old friend the PS Tour 90 with new paint job and re-titled carbon component.

I've got money that says those who try the new frame beside the old PS TOUR 90 will prefer.....


here are the differences (as we know)

KPS:

88 vs 90 si head
throat area rounded like the PS 85
Longer neck
seperate thorat pieces like the old PS 85's from Chicago and SV
NO hypercarbon.

These differences are enough for it to play as a completely different racquet. The PS 90 and the N90 are very similiar racquets and they played very different (felt different and the were different for serves and net play). The K90 is not weighted right (for many), has a high SW...yet it played softer and more powerful..again they were all nearly the same specs..but those little differences made them play and feel different.

The KPS is not the Tour 90 from 2003. Common sense.

Azzurri
11-07-2008, 09:19 AM
The PS Tour 90 was double braided as well, right? And that's different than than 6.0? Or no?

Breakpoint will know this. I know the Tour 90 had Hypercarbon, but were HC racquets double braided?

How is living in my mother country of Italia?:)

Keifers
11-07-2008, 12:06 PM
I owned a couple of Tour 90s, still have one of them, and their sw felt much more like 332 (TW) than 325 (Wilson). Beyond that, there was a weight distribution difference that made the Tour 90 swing quite differently from the PS Midsize/85. The 90s did not have the scalpel-like maneuverability of the 85s -- not by a long shot. Many members here complained that the 90s felt cumbersome and I had to agree.

I really hope the new Pete stick swings much more like the 85. And along with Pushmaster, I worry that Wilson will not be able to use the same quality of graphite that they used on the 85s and 6.0 95s.

Btw, the Tour 90s were made of double braided HyperCarbon, another unfortunate departure from the 85s -- stiffer, less feel.

yassarian
11-07-2008, 12:22 PM
Wonder how it compared to the PS 6.1 Classic?

BTW thanks Keifers! Really liked the 6.1 you sent me! :)

Keifers
11-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Glad you liked it, yassarian.

Cheers.

kkm
11-07-2008, 01:36 PM
[Questions]Sorry to post this question in two threads, but are there any particular advantages to braided rackets? Which players' rackets are braided these days, and which were braided previously? I've seen reference that the n 6.1 Tour was braided, and that some of the Pro Staff 6.0 rackets were. I take it the K 6.1 Tour isn't, and the upcoming K Pro Staff won't be? Was the Pro Staff 6.1 braided? How about the Prince Graphite - was/is it braided? And the Dunlop AG100? And the old/current rackets of the many other manufacturers not mentioned?
[/End of questions]

MAXXply
11-07-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm hoping the new Sampras stick won't come with the longer handle as the PST 90 did...? (what were they thinking back then?)

BreakPoint
11-07-2008, 02:47 PM
The PS Tour 90 was double braided as well, right? And that's different than than 6.0? Or no?
All the ProStaff series racquets are double-braided. From the PS 85 to the K90 and every model in between.

The difference is that with the PS 85 and the K90, they have a braid of Graphite and Kevlar in the bottom layer and a braid of all Graphite in the top layer, whereas, with the PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90, they have the same braid of Graphite and Kevlar in the bottom layer but a braid of Graphite and HyperCarbon in the top layer.

"Double-Braided" does not mean that's it's braided any differently than just being "Braided". "Double-Braided" just means that there are TWO LAYERS of braided materials, one layer top of the other to make the shell of the frame.

kkm
11-07-2008, 02:52 PM
BreakPoint, any idea on other modern rackets being double-braided or not, like what's now sold as the Prince Graphite Classic? And do you feel that double-braiding,practically speaking, offers any discernible differences/advantages? Thanks in advance!

stormholloway
11-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Breakpoint will know this. I know the Tour 90 had Hypercarbon, but were HC racquets double braided?

How is living in my mother country of Italia?:)

I cieli sono azzurri il mio amico.

stevewcosta
11-07-2008, 04:15 PM
Only good thing about the T90 was the paint job. It's crap compared to the 6.0 85. All weight in the throat, long, dopey grip, harsh feel...etc. If the new Samp. rac. is like the T90, it will be a guaranteed failure.

Pushmaster
11-07-2008, 04:38 PM
Only good thing about the T90 was the paint job. It's crap compared to the 6.0 85. All weight in the throat, long, dopey grip, harsh feel...etc. If the new Samp. rac. is like the T90, it will be a guaranteed failure.

Steve, I normally respect your opinion because in my mind your one of the few TT members that seems to know his sticks. However, I have to disagree with you on the Tour 90. First off, personally I would prefer the weight in the throat instead of the head like the N90 and K90. Secondly, what does it matter how long the grip is? It doesn't effect the playabilty in any way. Thirdly, the Tour 90 is anything but harsh. It has a very plush feel to it, very comfortable.

Like I've stated earlier, we'll be lucky if the new Sampras will be good as the Tour 90. The graphite that Wilson is using in their new racquets have a brittle and muted feel to them which I hate.

stormholloway
11-07-2008, 05:13 PM
I love the Tour 90. I think the weight was fine where it was. In my opinion, the weight was in the same place as the PS85. It was predominantly centered in the throat area and then evenly dispersed throughout. The problem was mainly with the composition of the materials. It wasn't quite as sweet as the 85, but it was really great, better than people give it credit.

leonidas1982
11-07-2008, 05:26 PM
I love the Tour 90. I think the weight was fine where it was. In my opinion, the weight was in the same place as the PS85. It was predominantly centered in the throat area and then evenly dispersed throughout. The problem was mainly with the composition of the materials. It wasn't quite as sweet as the 85, but it was really great, better than people give it credit.

the hyper carbon.

Pushmaster
11-07-2008, 05:32 PM
I love the Tour 90. I think the weight was fine where it was. In my opinion, the weight was in the same place as the PS85. It was predominantly centered in the throat area and then evenly dispersed throughout. The problem was mainly with the composition of the materials. It wasn't quite as sweet as the 85, but it was really great, better than people give it credit.

The Tour 90, along with the ROK are the last two really good midsize frames the Wilson has produced. Both are vastly underrated on these boards. Two good things about the Sampras though. It's new, and has a nice paintjob.:rolleyes:

leonidas1982
11-07-2008, 05:40 PM
The Tour 90, along with the ROK are the last two really good midsize frames the Wilson has produced. Both are vastly underrated on these boards. Two good things about the Sampras though. It's new, and has a nice paintjob.:rolleyes:

Yep. I can't wait for the release. I'll end up probably making the switch. I often wondered why the KBlade, if it is a descendant of the ROK, does not have PWS.

Pushmaster
11-07-2008, 06:11 PM
I often wondered why the KBlade, if it is a descendant of the ROK, does not have PWS.

The ROK is a million times better than the KBlade Tour. It was Wilson's answer to the PC 600, but never really caught on, possibly because the PC 600 was still available when the ROK was introduced. The ROK was no PC 600, but still a very good stick in it's own right.

stevewcosta
11-08-2008, 05:02 AM
Steve, I normally respect your opinion because in my mind your one of the few TT members that seems to know his sticks. However, I have to disagree with you on the Tour 90. First off, personally I would prefer the weight in the throat instead of the head like the N90 and K90. Secondly, what does it matter how long the grip is? It doesn't effect the playabilty in any way. Thirdly, the Tour 90 is anything but harsh. It has a very plush feel to it, very comfortable.

Like I've stated earlier, we'll be lucky if the new Sampras will be good as the Tour 90. The graphite that Wilson is using in their new racquets have a brittle and muted feel to them which I hate.

I may have been too quick to judge the T90 b/c I sold them very quickly. When I went back to the 6.0, the feel & balance were just clearly superior for me. I wanted to love the T90 (90 sq in., 17MM, good string pattern & weight, beautiful graphics) but my 2 frames were sluggish and I was late on everything. I also think I got them strung much too tight...probably the main culprit in the feel issue I stated previously. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new Sampras.

Pushmaster
11-08-2008, 06:25 AM
I may have been too quick to judge the T90 b/c I sold them very quickly. When I went back to the 6.0, the feel & balance were just clearly superior for me. I wanted to love the T90 (90 sq in., 17MM, good string pattern & weight, beautiful graphics) but my 2 frames were sluggish and I was late on everything. I also think I got them strung much too tight...probably the main culprit in the feel issue I stated previously. I'm cautiously optimistic about the new Sampras.

What string\tension were the T90's? I've found that soft gut-like strings at lower tensions work best with the Tour 90. I agree with you that the feel and balance of the PS 6.0 85 is superior to the Tour 90, and is more maneuverable. But the Tour 90 is noticeably more maneuverable when compared to the nCode 90 or K90, now those two are sluggish.

smart_player
11-08-2008, 12:40 PM
We can only hope the new Sampras will be good as the Tour 90. I have my doubts though, mainly due to the lower grade graphite they're putting into these newer sticks.

Do you have any evidence they are using lower grade graphite?

I am genuinely interested as to why this would be.

Pushmaster
11-08-2008, 02:03 PM
Do you have any evidence they are using lower grade graphite?

I am genuinely interested as to why this would be.

All you have to do is hit with just about any mid made in the 80's or even 90's, then hit with a current mid. Then you'll know what I mean.

morten
11-08-2008, 02:17 PM
i am with you on this tread pushmaster, agree on everything LOL. Tour 90, old graphite being better... good stuff..

stormholloway
11-08-2008, 02:21 PM
Wow. Old graphite? People who hit with wood must be starting to die of old age then.

Azzurri
11-08-2008, 05:27 PM
I cieli sono azzurri il mio amico.

e le donne sono belle:)

stevewcosta
11-09-2008, 06:13 AM
What string\tension were the T90's? I've found that soft gut-like strings at lower tensions work best with the Tour 90. I agree with you that the feel and balance of the PS 6.0 85 is superior to the Tour 90, and is more maneuverable. But the Tour 90 is noticeably more maneuverable when compared to the nCode 90 or K90, now those two are sluggish.

I had the T90s strung with PSG 16g at mid+2. I agree with you that lower tensions are better (been stringing 6.0s at 52 and love it). In the end, I just think the 6.0 has perfect balance, maneuverability & feel---perfect for quick OHBH returns and wrist-snap on serves. I have purchased close to 35 different racquets over the past 7 yrs. and 98% lacked the qualities I look for (can't even tell where the ball is going with these newer, non-box beam frames). This is the first time I've been 100% pleased since playing with old R22's back in the 80s. Of course, we can't buy the 6.0 anymore...so I might be chasing my tail again in another year or two. Only reason I waited so long to use the 6.0 was my unwarranted fear of using anything <95 sq. inches.

stevewcosta
11-09-2008, 06:19 AM
double post...

Matt21
11-09-2008, 07:26 AM
I've owned or played with all four mentioned and rank them in this order from best all-around to least favorite all-around:
1. PS85
2. PS Tour90
3. K61Tour
4. N61 Tour

If which of the four I still own is any indication... :)

(PS 85 is the only one I still own and occasionally pull it out for, guess what?? Doubles).

PS85 blows the others out of the water on serves, maneuverability and feel.

Tour 90 was good off the ground but I couldn't drill serves with it like the 85.

K61 Tour again, good off the ground but a bit sluggish; but good feel.

N61 Tour: I wish Wilson hadn't made it; it somewhat tarnished the PS lineage.

Pushmaster
11-09-2008, 11:19 AM
I had the T90s strung with PSG 16g at mid+2. I agree with you that lower tensions are better (been stringing 6.0s at 52 and love it). In the end, I just think the 6.0 has perfect balance, maneuverability & feel---perfect for quick OHBH returns and wrist-snap on serves. I have purchased close to 35 different racquets over the past 7 yrs. and 98% lacked the qualities I look for (can't even tell where the ball is going with these newer, non-box beam frames). This is the first time I've been 100% pleased since playing with old R22's back in the 80s. Of course, we can't buy the 6.0 anymore...so I might be chasing my tail again in another year or two. Only reason I waited so long to use the 6.0 was my unwarranted fear of using anything <95 sq. inches.

Yep, the PS 6.0 85 is the best PS ever, and sadly it's no more. I can tell your very picky (like me) about racquets, and can't say I blame you considering most everything coming out these days is junk. Also, I agree with you that older box beam frames have the best feel. Older Yonex sticks like the R-22 (which I have) in particular are very sweet.

recaffeine
11-09-2008, 09:09 PM
All you have to do is hit with just about any mid made in the 80's or even 90's, then hit with a current mid. Then you'll know what I mean.

im a newbie here,but how i agree with u pushmaster..