Kick serve

[Headshotterer]

I always wanted to learn the kick serve, but I cant get it. When i try it, it doesnt bounce that high and it is more of a slice serve.

So should i bother learning the kick serve or just learn the slice serve?For HS varsity

[WildVolley]

Yes, learn it. It is just a matter of getting the proper toss, racket head drop, and racket path. I was able to show a beginning tennis player who followed directions how to hit a kick serve in about 30 minutes, though it was mostly topspin. Not much pace, but he was doing it.

Practice hitting up on the ball with topspin and a loose racket. Make certain the ball is over your head when you hit it.

[wilsonplayer]

a great kick serve is honestly all you will need to succeed at a high school varsity level. i agree with wildvolley completely that you should learn it. while attempting, keep your arm and wrist loose in order to get a lot of racket acceleration while going up to the ball. if you do it right, you will hear the spin created. also keep in mind that the acceleration of your racket should be the same acceleration as on your flat serve or first serve, just your momentum should be going up to the ball on the kick, rather than out into the court for the flat.

[Headshotterer]

can anyone tell me how you should hit the ball what way
all descriptions say brush from 7 to 11 but thats a terrible way to phrase it

[[d]ragon]

Try this: toss the ball alittle farther behind you PLUS aim to brush up on the back of the ball. It might feel weird at first but keep trying and you'll get it. Using a continental (or eastern backhand) grip while maintaining good racquet head speed (generated from whole body) helps too.

[GeoffB]

A kick serve is a huge advantage. It's a very effective way to keep a safe margin for error on net clearance without sacrificing too much pace. It also kicks high, which is a great way to keep your opponent from attacking your second serve (especially if you can kick it to the backhand).

That said, it does have some downsides...

1) The kick serve is prone to technical breakdowns. While a properly struck kick serve leaves a wide margin for error, the motion itself doesn't leave a huge margin for technical error. You're essentially hitting up at the ball with the goal of discharging substantial racket speed into both spin and pace. If you are off by even a fraction of an inch, you'll almost certainly fault, often badly shanking the ball. It's easier under pressure to just pop a slow, flat second serve, since the mechanics are quite simple. However, that slow pop serve will get crushed at higher levels, so it's worth the transition to a kick second serve. Just don't expect it to always go smoothly.

2) The kick serve can set up a return winner... yeah, I know I said that the kick helps, but if you hit the kick serve too slowly, without pace or placement, then all the extra topspin does is set the ball up an extra second or two for your opponent to connect. This kind of serve, especially when hit to the forehand, can come back at you really hard.

[Element54]

A kick serve is a huge advantage. It's a very effective way to keep a safe margin for error on net clearance without sacrificing too much pace. It also kicks high, which is a great way to keep your opponent from attacking your second serve (especially if you can kick it to the backhand).

That said, it does have some downsides...

1) The kick serve is prone to technical breakdowns. While a properly struck kick serve leaves a wide margin for error, the motion itself doesn't leave a huge margin for technical error. You're essentially hitting up at the ball with the goal of discharging substantial racket speed into both spin and pace. If you are off by even a fraction of an inch, you'll almost certainly fault, often badly shanking the ball. It's easier under pressure to just pop a slow, flat second serve, since the mechanics are quite simple. However, that slow pop serve will get crushed at higher levels, so it's worth the transition to a kick second serve. Just don't expect it to always go smoothly.

2) The kick serve can set up a return winner... yeah, I know I said that the kick helps, but if you hit the kick serve too slowly, without pace or placement, then all the extra topspin does is set the ball up an extra second or two for your opponent to connect. This kind of serve, especially when hit to the forehand, can come back at you really hard.

great tips thanks

[Kevo]

That said, it does have some downsides...

1) The kick serve is prone to technical breakdowns.

2) The kick serve can set up a return winner... yeah, I know I said that the kick helps, but if you hit the kick serve too slowly, without pace or placement, then all the extra topspin does is set the ball up an extra second or two for your opponent to connect. This kind of serve, especially when hit to the forehand, can come back at you really hard.

I disagree with point 1, and agree with point 2. A kick serve is the serve to have when you have to get the ball in. Any serve can break down technically, but the kick serve has the widest margin for error and you should absolutely learn it. A flat slow second serve is also prone to getting hammered, so I don't think point two is a concern.

[Rickson]

Learn it and use it.

[Kevo]

can anyone tell me how you should hit the ball what way
all descriptions say brush from 7 to 11 but thats a terrible way to phrase it

I think one of the tricky things to learning a kick serve is to understand that you aren't trying to hit the ball forward into the service box. What you want to happen is the ball to travel forward because of where the contact occurs.

In any tennis stroke you have 3 main things going on at contact that determine the flight path of the ball. They are swing path, racquet face angle, and contact location. In a kick serve you want the swing path and racquet face angle to be imparting spin, and the contact location to propel the ball.

The swing path of the racquet is low to high. You can think of it as 7 to 11 if you want, but basically the face of the racquet needs to brush up the back of the ball and the angle of the racquet face needs to basically be parallel to the net. This is going to put spin on the ball as if it were rolling along the ground, same kind of spin a topspin forehand or lob would have.

The tricky part is that you want the ball to travel forward not because you swing forward through the ball, but because the ball was struck on the back middle as the brushing motion occurred. Think of it like pool balls. A cue ball traveling perpendicular to eight ball will cause it to travel in a direction 90 degrees from the path of the cue ball.

Think of the letter "T". The cue ball is the top of the "T" and the eight ball would be the leg of the "T". This is how you want to direct your kick serve. If you swing really fast at a right angle to the direction you want the ball to go, you will get a lot of spin. When the spin to speed ratio is high you will get a lot of movement off the court. That movement is what makes a kicker so hard to return offensively.

A lot of people get hung up on trying to hit the ball in the box. On a kick serve you're not directly hitting the ball in the box. HTH.

[GeoffB]

I disagree with point 1, and agree with point 2. A kick serve is the serve to have when you have to get the ball in. Any serve can break down technically, but the kick serve has the widest margin for error and you should absolutely learn it. A flat slow second serve is also prone to getting hammered, so I don't think point two is a concern.

Hmm... I suspect we're in more in agreement than disagreement on this one. I definitely agree that a kick serve, once you learn it, has the widest margin of error. The breakdown I referred to is "technical" - what I mean is that when the serve isn't executed properly, it can lead to spectacular misses. A "push" serve that is essentially dinked in has a margin of error of several inches *for the racket* - ie., your toss, racket head position, and point of contact with the ball can vary substantially and you'll still get it in, mainly because you're relying on the lack of pace and a flat trajectory to get the ball in. It is also, as we both agree, a terrible serve that will get plastered by a decent player.

A kick serve, on the other hand, needs to be executed to a higher level of technical proficiency before it is effective. A couple of inches off in racket head or toss will often result in a ball that is badly shanked wide. It's also a serve that requires substantial confidence, because you don't really benefit from "taking something off it" - because slowing racket head speed just deprives you of the spin you are using to build in that margin of error (by clearing the net safely and using topspin to keep the ball within the service line).

As a result, everything really does need to come together in this serve before it will yield that high margin of error. I mention this because people get discouraged when it breaks down under pressure, and they revert to their dink serves. You definitely need to stick with it. Eventually you'll get precise enough to do the motion reliably, and then you'll have a high percentage second serve that can't be easily attacked - and you can even use it as an aggressive first serve if you notice your opponent has trouble with the kick.

[mental midget]

i would add--

don't get too hung up on simply brushing up on the back of the ball. if you do that, you'll wind up with a high-arcing meatball with a lot of spin and no pace.

somewhere on youtube there is a great slow-mo profile video of stefan edberg's serve. you'll notice that while he definitely hits up on the ball, he's also very much into the court, and hitting through it as well. watch what he does, and copy it.

[mikeler]

If you can consistently get the kick serve out to the backhand, your opponent may get so concerned about it, that they'll try to camp on the backhand for every 2nd serve. On big points, if you can swing it over to the forehand side, you will probably get an ace or an error from your opponent since they are not expecting it.

[jrod]

If you can consistently get the kick serve out to the backhand, your opponent may get so concerned about it, that they'll try to camp on the backhand for every 2nd serve. On big points, if you can swing it over to the forehand side, you will probably get an ace or an error from your opponent since they are not expecting it.

This is classic and I do this all the time. My kick serve sets up more aces for me than any other serve I use. I rarely if ever ace with a kick, but it sure does allow me to ace with my other serves.

Furthermore, the kick is a bread and butter serve for many pros on the 2nd serve. Many say "you are only as good as your second serve", so having a decent one that is reliable is extremely important. I love watching the action that Roddick puts on the 2nd serve....just incredible.

[Ross K]

This is classic and I do this all the time. My kick serve sets up more aces for me than any other serve I use. I rarely if ever ace with a kick, but it sure does allow me to ace with my other serves.

Furthermore, the kick is a bread and butter serve for many pros on the 2nd serve. Many say "you are only as good as your second serve", so having a decent one that is reliable is extremely important. I love watching the action that Roddick puts on the 2nd serve....just incredible.

Anyone got any vids they might care to post up of ARod or others demonstrating a good kicker?

[Ross K]

Think of the letter "T". The cue ball is the top of the "T" and the eight ball would be the leg of the "T". This is how you want to direct your kick serve. If you swing really fast at a right angle to the direction you want the ball to go, you will get a lot of spin. When the spin to speed ratio is high you will get a lot of movement off the court. That movement is what makes a kicker so hard to return offensively.

Hmm, I like this. Anyone else got any similar tips?

[bhupaes]

Great posts from GeoffB and Kevo.

A good kick serve is like a powerful forehand stroke that has a flat trajectory, but has tons of topspin, IMO. The hit has to be very precise. It takes a while to get a feel for it - took me years of playing to get it, and my second serve still has plenty of room for improvement.

[Mansewerz]

I love the kick serve. that hard part is getting the racquet head speed. It gives you more time to approach the net, so it is great especially for S&V players.

[Kevo]

i would add--
don't get too hung up on simply brushing up on the back of the ball. if you do that, you'll wind up with a high-arcing meatball with a lot of spin and no pace.


I like to think of pace on a kick serve coming from the lean into the court, not really from a forward swing. On the first serve, I like to have the lean and a forward swing.

However, for someone learning the kick serve a high arcing meatball with a lot of spin and no pace is pretty good. When I started teaching my wife, her first attempts did not have nearly enough spin. After she started going only for spin with her swing she had the ball crossing the baseline at about shoulder height. Of course it wasn't very fast, but once you start to really get the hang of applying spin, you can work on the other aspects with a bit more confidence knowing that you can always hit the serve in when needed.

[mikeler]

Kevo is right. If someone can put a slow looper kick serve in the court, then they are on their way to understanding the basics of how the serve should be hit. Granted, there is still a lot of improvement that has to be made after understanding this initial concept. Let's face it, a real effective kick serve takes years, not months, to perfect.

[Rickson]

Roddick has the best kicker in the game.

[mental midget]

Kevo is right. If someone can put a slow looper kick serve in the court, then they are on their way to understanding the basics of how the serve should be hit. Granted, there is still a lot of improvement that has to be made after understanding this initial concept. Let's face it, a real effective kick serve takes years, not months, to perfect.

no arguments there. those rainbow kickers at least show you the 'philosophy' of the thing. my point was to execution as your competition gets better. the velocity side of the equation needs equal time to the work you can put on the ball., eventually.

[Mansewerz]

Kevo is right. If someone can put a slow looper kick serve in the court, then they are on their way to understanding the basics of how the serve should be hit. Granted, there is still a lot of improvement that has to be made after understanding this initial concept. Let's face it, a real effective kick serve takes years, not months, to perfect.

Yes, it's pretty similar to other strokes. It takes time.

[Headshotterer]

how should the racket contact the ball?and how do you brush up on it?

[Rickson]

Brushing up is important, but it's important to hit through as well or you'll be getting some moon serves.

[BullDogTennis]

after you learn a good kick serve, you can add a good twist serve...there amazing hitting to the oponets backhand on the add side(assuming your right handed) they will bounce high and way outside.