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NetMaster70
12-09-2008, 06:37 AM
In Dallas there were as many as 20 players that received "B" benchmark NTRP ratings at year-end that were allowed to successfully appeal down _ in clear violation of National USTA League Regulations. Apparently it was a computer glitch. But the USTA does not want to rescind the illegal appeals _ because that would take some time and cost a little money. Here are just a few examples:
Terry Newman 4.0B --> 3.5A
Tom Alexander 4.0B --> 3.5A
Bob Kayser 4.0B --> 3.5A
Bob Haney 4.0B --> 3.5A
John Stephen 4.0B --> 3.5A
Lanny Ereckson 4.0B --> 3.5A
Norm Goheen 4.0B --> 3.5A

These guys played district/area championships in Dallas and many also played Super senior TEXAS SECTIONALS.

Do you know if this is happening in other Sections? It seems like we should have the same rules for all league players.

JLyon
12-09-2008, 07:10 AM
it is because DTA or TTA classified the City/District playoffs as flight playoffs rather than district playoffs. As for the response by USTA well what else would you expect from. They essentially have a monopoly so they are just rolling around in our money and could care less as long as the lemmings con't to play.

raiden031
12-09-2008, 07:14 AM
it is because DTA or TTA classified the City/District playoffs as flight playoffs rather than district playoffs. As for the response by USTA well what else would you expect from. They essentially have a monopoly so they are just rolling around in our money and could care less as long as the lemmings con't to play.

Terry newman played at SECTIONALS and still appealed.

Good catch Netmaster.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, what if they are legit medical appeals?

Topaz
12-09-2008, 07:16 AM
Wow. Why do you think it is okay to post peoples' real names like that?

atatu
12-09-2008, 07:49 AM
Wow. Why do you think it is okay to post peoples' real names like that?

Isn't it public information ? Don't we all essentially consent to have our ratings put up on the internet when we sign up on tennislink ?

lostinamerica
12-09-2008, 07:53 AM
They are not Medical Appeals. That takes a little longer.

Topaz
12-09-2008, 07:54 AM
Isn't it public information ? Don't we all essentially consent to have our ratings put up on the internet when we sign up on tennislink ?

That is one thing.

It is another to cut and paste peoples' names and post them on an internet forum *without* their knowledge and consent. I'm fine with my stuff being on tennislink, but if it were posted here, with my actual name, I'd have some serious problems with that.

Just feels creepy to me...your mileage may vary.

NetMaster70
12-09-2008, 08:03 AM
NONE of these NTRP appeals were injury related _ I'm positive

It's possible that the Dallas Tennis Assoc miss-classified their playoffs, but some of these guys played Super senior SECTIONALS in Texas. And these guys all had "B" ratings for benchmark in the NTRP database. So the computer identified them all as having played in the post season _ yet it allowed then to appeal down.

2009 National USTA League Regulations say: "District/Area, Region, Section and National Championship benchmarks may NOT be appealed the first year they are issued".

I guess I'm naive but I thought the USTA might try to fix an obvious error rather than live with it for a year. I now think you guys are right _ the USTA primarily cares about the $. Fairness is lower on their priority list.

I wonder what other Section League Coordinators think about this?

jones10s
12-09-2008, 08:27 AM
Super seniors results do not count in your ntrp. It is essentially a combo league. My guess the Dallas area championships were entered as flight championships and that is how they were able to appeal.

raiden031
12-09-2008, 08:30 AM
Super seniors results do not count in your ntrp. It is essentially a combo league. My guess the Dallas area championships were entered as flight championships and that is how they were able to appeal.

It doesn't seem right that usta makes bold statements such as "All benchmark (B) players cannot appeal their ratings", and then have a bunch of exceptions like playoffs don't count, and these are not even documented anywhere. A benchmark is a benchmark. If they don't count, then why give them a B rating in the first place?

raiden031
12-10-2008, 11:54 AM
Super seniors results do not count in your ntrp. It is essentially a combo league. My guess the Dallas area championships were entered as flight championships and that is how they were able to appeal.

You are right. After looking at two of the guys' records a second time, I noticed the Sectionals results said "7.0". This is definitely NOT the official USTA league that leads to Nationals, and would not count towards ratings or generate Benchmark ratings.

NetMaster70
12-10-2008, 01:59 PM
Raiden,
Thank you for your comments. But 7.0 is the regular USTA league that leads to USTA League Nationals. Same as the USTA league you play. However, for super seniors, the USTA uses the combined ratings of the two players. So two 3.5 players could be partners or a 4.0 and a 3.0 could team up. They do it that way because there are fewer players in super seniors. The USTA does hold annual Sectionals and a National Championships and all the matches count towards player's NTRP ratings. And players that play these events earn the "benchmark" ratings.

Most of the players in question also competed in Dallas City Playoffs considered to be area/district level.

The USTA computer recognized all these guys as benchmarks and gave thm "B" ratings _ but allowed them to appeal down.

I'm sure this was an unintentional screw up by the USTA that probably did not happen in other Sections. The big issue is why does the USTA not rescind the invalid appeals rather than live with the errors for a year?

And is it fair to other Sections that some Texas benchmark players were allowed to appeal down?

JavierLW
12-10-2008, 03:10 PM
Raiden,
Thank you for your comments. But 7.0 is the regular USTA league that leads to USTA League Nationals. Same as the USTA league you play. However, for super seniors, the USTA uses the combined ratings of the two players. So two 3.5 players could be partners or a 4.0 and a 3.0 could team up. They do it that way because there are fewer players in super seniors. The USTA does hold annual Sectionals and a National Championships and all the matches count towards player's NTRP ratings. And players that play these events earn the "benchmark" ratings.

Most of the players in question also competed in Dallas City Playoffs considered to be area/district level.

The USTA computer recognized all these guys as benchmarks and gave thm "B" ratings _ but allowed them to appeal down.

I'm sure this was an unintentional screw up by the USTA that probably did not happen in other Sections. The big issue is why does the USTA not rescind the invalid appeals rather than live with the errors for a year?

And is it fair to other Sections that some Texas benchmark players were allowed to appeal down?

If it's not an out and out conspiracy here is the common theme in these situations:

League Coordinators when faced with a few individuals who they may have to inconvience on a more personal level usually lean toward being "player friendly" to them, even though it may not be fair for the majority of league participants out there.

NetMaster70
12-12-2008, 02:51 PM
Yes, I agree with you. It was likely the local coordinator trying to accomodate local league players. I was just surprised that the National USTA League officials would allow a local group to not comply with National rules.

Islandtennis
12-13-2008, 02:50 AM
Guys,

As much as conspiracy theories would be nice, LLC's do not have the capability of determining how appeals are handled.

I do not know alot about Texas, but Dallas is certainly an area as opposed to district. There is not area/district level. There is either an area or district playoff not both at the same time, and there is a big difference on how the two are handled throughout the USTA

NetMaster70
12-13-2008, 02:10 PM
island,

You make a good point about area vs district. However the guys in question were labeled "B" for benchmark by the USTA computer _when new ratings came out. (I think they had also played SSR Sectionals.)

So the USTA ID them to be benchmarks and, according to the National rules, benchmark players are not supposed to be able to down. Yet these guys all appealed down successsfully.

What do you think happened?

cak
12-17-2008, 11:34 AM
Well, here in NorCal they don't let the baseline players appeal, but if they are playing in the Early Start Senior league they get to keep playing. I'm trying to figure out what they were thinking, but there a two teams of ladies who are now 4.0B (from playing in senior sectionals for 2008) that are still playing in senior 3.5 and the district is claiming they can keep playing. I'm not exactly sure what happens when they show up at 2009 senior 3.5 Nationals as a 4.0B players. As baseline players they can't be DQ'd. Our section website does say there is an Up and Out rule, but only those players they notify have to stop playing down, and these ladies claim they asked NorCal and were told they can keep playing.

NetMaster70
12-21-2008, 07:46 AM
Wow, I did not know that players in an early start league could continue to play at a lower level even after their NTRP was bumped up. I guess that means at 4.0 Nationals we could see some people rated 4.5 as of 12/2008?

I had always assumed the NTRP rules were the same across the country. But maybe the rules are a little different for each Section?