Help Me With My Game - Video

[EPaps]

I finally had the chance to film myself hitting groundstrokes and serves.

Just a little about me.. I started playing tennis seriously my junior year in high school and I'm now a freshman in college, so you do the math. In HS, I played No. 1 singles on an average to below average team, and I'm currently playing in the tennis club at my school.

Check out my video and let me know how I can improve my forehand, backhand, and serve. Any comments or criticism are welcome and appreciated :)

Thanks in advance for watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggasjdX0nzg

[Rafael_Nadal_6257]

Footwork, footwork, footwork.

Also work on your consistency and backhand more.

Sometimes had solid pace and spin on forehand, but doesn't seem very reliable or consistent.

EDIT: Watched more of the video where you hit more backhands than just the very first one that went quite a bit out. The backhand has solid pace at times, but again, like with the forehand, not reliable enough.

You actually move your feet right before you hit a shot, but you also need to move your feet and stay on your toes between your shots.

[quicken]

Man...
Those are some LAZY footwork.
I hope you don't move like that during a real match.

When you set up for your forehand, your left shoulder should touch your chin then when you finish your right shoulder should be in the vicinity of your chin. Its to get your whole body into action improving consistency and power.
Like so::
Andy Roddick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w
Roger Federer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk&feature=related
Novak Djokovic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AJYfkJ4hc&feature=related

Backhand looked fine.

Serves looked great.

[EPaps]

Man...
Those are some LAZY footwork.
I hope you don't move like that during a real match.


Yeah I'm pretty sure I don't. I think the real reason is that I'm not expecting a fast return (because I was playing my dad who hadn't played in like 4 months) so I was just expecting a soft return and that's why my feet aren't very active. Thanks for the input.

[BullDogTennis]

your footwork deff. needs lost of work, i dont care if your waiting for a soft reply or not. and i can tell that you wouldnt be able to play well with someone that hit the ball hard at all, when your dad did put any pace on the ball and kept it deep you couldnt do anything with it. like at around 1:13ish.

your serves looked good and deep, although they didnt seem to have to much speed, but thats fine when you can place it, which it seems you can.

[EPaps]

your footwork deff. needs lost of work, i dont care if your waiting for a soft reply or not. and i can tell that you wouldnt be able to play well with someone that hit the ball hard at all, when your dad did put any pace on the ball and kept it deep you couldnt do anything with it. like at around 1:13ish.

your serves looked good and deep, although they didnt seem to have to much speed, but thats fine when you can place it, which it seems you can.

I wasn't trying to make an excuse, my lack of footwork was the first thing I noticed when I watched the video and I'm definitely going to try to work on it the next time I'm out on the court. I was just stating that it might have been a reason in this particular video against my dad. I also think that the return I got at 1:13 was a faster return that I wasn't expecting from him, and that's why I was in a bad position.

[tennisfreak15347]

work on your consistency. but I like the shot you made where the ball you hit the camera.

[OhDear]

Ok, I'm actually going to talk about something other than footwork.
I don't know if this would go under aesthetics, or if it's an actual correction of your technique, but your forehand bothers me.
You whip your left arm under your right during contact in this weird crossing/self-hugging motion. I don't see how you can possibly keep your balance doing that- this may be contributing to the lack of consistency.

[EPaps]

Ok, I'm actually going to talk about something other than footwork.
I don't know if this would go under aesthetics, or if it's an actual correction of your technique, but your forehand bothers me.
You whip your left arm under your right during contact in this weird crossing/self-hugging motion. I don't see how you can possibly keep your balance doing that- this may be contributing to the lack of consistency.

I'm not sure if I know what you're talking about. Everything is okay with it besides my left arm after I swing? Where is it supposed to be going? Maybe you could show me what you're referring to at a time stamp in the video.

[OhDear]

Very beginning of the video 0:11-0:14.
Compare your left arm to that of Federer's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

[EPaps]

Very beginning of the video 0:11-0:14.
Compare your left arm to that of Federer's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk

Okay thanks.

[OhDear]

If it works for you though, don't change it.
Just everyone here was talking about the lack of consistency, and I saw this as a potential contributor.

[Charlzz]

I'm going to comment on the video quality, which I think is among the best I've seen. I especially like the side view. I don't like the "across the net" view except that it helps show footwork and the trajectory of the ball. If you could put the camera directly behind you and rally from the middle, then we could see stuff.

Overall, other than the footwork everyone is harping on, the serves look good, the forehand looks good, the backhand is decent except maybe the slices.

I think it's useful when asking for help to point out what you think is wrong with your game. Although asking it without context might help readers look at things you weren't looking at, a followup post after the initial comments might allow others to focus on what you think is important.

[EPaps]

I'm going to comment on the video quality, which I think is among the best I've seen. I especially like the side view. I don't like the "across the net" view except that it helps show footwork and the trajectory of the ball. If you could put the camera directly behind you and rally from the middle, then we could see stuff.

Yeah I would definitely do that, but as you can see when I have the camera behind me when I'm serving, you can't really see much, but I'll try it out next time.

I think it's useful when asking for help to point out what you think is wrong with your game. Although asking it without context might help readers look at things you weren't looking at, a followup post after the initial comments might allow others to focus on what you think is important.

Thanks for pointing this out. I guess my main problem is consistency, but pretty much everyone has pointed that out already - but I would definitely like future readers to give me advice on why I'm not consistent (besides the footwork lol, I get it...).

[150mph_]

work on your consistency. but I like the shot you made where the ball you hit the camera.

+1 thats one nice shot
and kid hits pretty hard but why do you not try and at least make yourself look good when you are obviously on camera?

i'd give 200% if i was on camera :oops:

[EPaps]

+1 thats one nice shot
and kid hits pretty hard but why do you not try and at least make yourself look good when you are obviously on camera?

i'd give 200% if i was on camera :oops:

Great question. Aside from the ball hitting the camera shot, I tried to put in a mix of shots where I missed so that I could be helped out on what I was doing wrong. I didn't want to make it too much of a highlight reel.

[Charlzz]

Quick follow up. I'm looking at the video again. Although the side form looks good (this is why showing rallies is useful), many of your hard shots land quite short. You hit quite a few shots that barely make it to the service line. I would work on the depth of shots. One way to do that is to get miniature cones and place it about halfway between the service line and baseline and work to hit them.

I see what a previous poster was talking about. Pause the video after you hit the ball and have the follow through, say at 1:10 or 1:13 or 1:17. Your left arm wraps in front of your body.

Here's Federer: Fed forehand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVZVQMsb1AY)

Pause at 0:12 and pay attention to his left arm. Also watch his shoulders as they rotate beyond the facing the net. Although his eyes are on the location where the ball hits the racquet, the shoulders have rotated quite a bit.

Here's Djokovic: Novak forehand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq09yHPmKh0)

Again, pay attention to his left arm and his shoulders as he rotates in his follow through.

Your right arm, on the other hand, looks pretty good.

Because of the shoulder rotation, Novak and Roger get more body rotation than you do. Basically, you hit rotate and hit the ball, but once the ball is hit, your arm is the only part that continues to move, and the shoulders have stopped moving once its square to the net (to be fair, this was very common among pros playing in the 1970s--pros in the last 10 years or so have added a much larger core rotation to their hitting).

The left arm wrapping around your body seems to cause the momentum that is causing you to rotate your body left to stop. That doesn't seem like a good idea.

Your left leg also seems to come up quite a bit whenever you hit. It doesn't happen all the time, but look at 1:17 in the video.

Here's a side by side comparison of Djokovic and Federer.

Novak and Roger side-by-side (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxEXxFLim1s)

Watch Novak's feet. In particular, his left foot stays on the ground to anchor him and then when he straightens his right leg, he elevates both feet a little off the ground. Roger has his left leg up, but it stays pretty still other than that. My feeling is that you need to not make your left leg quite so active.

Also, your left leg doesn't seem to contribute much to your balance. You are often off your left foot right away, putting the weight on the right foot only. See 1:30 in your video. Or look at 1:38.

I paused the video at 2:26. Something had been striking me as peculiar with your forehand. It took me a while to realize that you open your body too quickly. Your body is already starting to face the net with your racquet still back. I understand the thinking behind it (use the core to initiate the body rotation), but it seems you've taken it a little too far.

It's hard to find a side on video of the pros, so here's one of Lleyton Hewitt from the back:

Hewitt forehand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQxsL6qs2r0)

Pause it at 0:08 and watch how his right arm and shoulders form a line.

It feels like your left arm has pulled you to the left at 2:26 and also at 1:30 in your own video.

Otherwise, I do like the smoothness of the motion itself which looks nice.

[Charlzz]

Yeah I would definitely do that, but as you can see when I have the camera behind me when I'm serving, you can't really see much, but I'll try it out next time.


That is true.

The side view is good to see your stroke mechanics. The back view, if that can be managed, is also good for that. To make yourself visible, you'd probably have to rally up the middle and not try to have your opponent move you around. The front view is good to see the flight of the ball, which seems short. You may also want to video more of the backhand too.

Another thought, though it's a touch risky is to set the camera a little underneath the height of the net and film from in front, but then you have to be careful not to whack the camera. A somewhat safer option is to put the camera in the doubles alley near the net on the side you want to focus on. The net can protect the tripod (at least on one side) and hopefully, both of you can avoid hitting the camera since it's in the doubles alley.

If you have software, you may want to try slowing down the video to see your stroke mechanics as well.

I was recently advised to use a ball machine to work on consistency and have it feed the same ball over and over so you can control where you hit the ball relative to your body. It attempts to build consistency by making you hit the same shot over and over.

[EPaps]

I see what a previous poster was talking about. Pause the video after you hit the ball and have the follow through, say at 1:10 or 1:13 or 1:17. Your left arm wraps in front of your body.


It's funny that people started the problem with my left arm.. I showed a friend a picture of myself playing last year where I like cross over my left arm with my right arm and how I was hoping I didn't do that anymore. I thought I had fixed this problem but apparently not lol.

So is the basic problem that I should be twisting my chest farther to my left and my arm seems to be preventing me from doing so?

http://www.epaps.com/motion.png

[Charlzz]

I was looking at your serve. The main thing I'd point out is that you don't get your racquet up in the trophy pose for very long. It looks like most pros have their arm up there a bit longer. Other than that, you do have a decent shoulder turn, you do drop the racquet and have it pointing down, so it seems like a pretty solid strength.

[EPaps]

A follow up to the shoulder turn: Should I be able to see Penn State on the front at the beginning of my forehand and on the follow through see the logo on the back?

[Charlzz]

It's funny that people started the problem with my left arm.. I showed a friend a picture of myself playing last year where I like cross over my left arm with my right arm and how I was hoping I didn't do that anymore. I thought I had fixed this problem but apparently not lol.


Well, you don't do what's in the picture anymore. What's happening is that your left arm is now wrapped around your belly.

If you can rotate your body more, then you might be able to move your body out of the way of the follow-through. Djokovic merely drops his left forearm down to avoid the situation in your picture.

Novak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AJYfkJ4hc)

James Blake also rotates his body to get out of the way of the follow through.

Blake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUH9Bevnew)

Federer seems like he used to catch the racquet with his left hand as a youth, but now simply lets the racquet fly over where his left hand was. That might be one way to learn it. Swing, catch with the left hand.

See 0:46 of the FYB video: Hitting the forehand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IedzW2QNsM0). Frank Salazar catches the racquet with his left hand in the follow through. Federer almost does this, but essentially ducks his left hand just underneath.

That might make the left hand feel more natural than the photo you just posted indicates.

[Charlzz]

A follow up to the shoulder turn: Should I be able to see Penn State on the front at the beginning of my forehand and on the follow through see the logo on the back?

Depends on the angle. From the front view, you want to see your left shoulder pointed to the net as you begin the stroke, and your right shoulder pointed to the net as you finish the follow through. You should hit the ball with the shoulders either square to the net or a little to the left (if you watch some pros, their shoulders have already turned somewhat to the left on impact).

Here's a photo of Roger hitting his forehand.
Roger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marc-bibo/3046568411/in/photostream/)

He's just a fraction pointed left and not quite square to the net.

You certainly don't want to end with your back to the net, which would be quite the acrobatic feat. The closest equivalent of what you're talking about is hitting a one-handed backhand or possibly a serve, where you see somene's back then their front. The forehand is generally seeing their left side (for a righty), then hitting while square, then following through so you see the right side.

Having said all this, this is a lot of suggestions, so you have to decide if it's worth your time trying to make all these changes. I might try to find a favorite pro and see if there is slow motion video to watch their arms, shoulders, chest, etc. as reference points.

You may find as you try these things out that they aren't comfortable. All I'm doing is point out what I see from various pros and offering them as suggestions. How well they work depends on you and how comfortable you feel and how quickly you adapt to these changes. I don't want to compel you to do something that might hurt your game.

[smoothtennis]

Very interesting on that forehand follow through - just a get a pictoral of this and how it is affecting you, I put a few freeze frames together for you. Sorry about the quality - but you should be able to clearly see now, that your body - due to the left hand, cannot continue it's rotation all the way around. Notice how your body remains square to the net in your follow through in these pics (the two on the right).

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/davisc1/EPapaForehand.jpg

[EPaps]

Very interesting on that forehand follow through - just a get a pictoral of this and how it is affecting you, I put a few freeze frames together for you. Sorry about the quality - but you should be able to clearly see now, that your body - due to the left hand, cannot continue it's rotation all the way around. Notice how your body remains square to the net in your follow through in these pics (the two on the right).


Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

[Djokovicfan4life]

Your biggest problem is that you are not getting in position BEFORE the ball bounces. You should already be set up and ready to hit the ball by the time it bounces. This will eliminate unnecessary steps in between shots like hop steps and will help you remain on balance. Your recovery back to the center of the court will be much faster as well because you're not falling away from the court after hitting your shots.

[Charlzz]

Mike Cottrill posted this video in a different thread. I thought it would be useful to see the body rotation and what he does with his left arm in slow motion. (The guy is a lefty, but Cottrill reversed the video).

http://www.vimeo.com/2580817

If you want more comments on the backhand, you should have a video that shows primarily backhands.

[smoothtennis]

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

No problem, happy to help. I have never seen anyone hit this way, and at the same time, hit such a nice forehand! You have a lot of potential and talent. To fix this left hand thing, I think will be a lot of focused work. I also think since you have done it so long, you will have to slow it down and practice not doing it ---much like you would if learning a new dance move. Nice and slow, feel it over and over you know?

The best part however, is that this is the type of thing you can work on every day off court using nothing more than shadow swinging. Something I do in this regard is this: I'll have something like this I want to work on, say...getting the left arm extended across my body, or keeping my head completely still. I'll work on it 10 mins shadowing, then grab the digital camera, and film 30 seconds of it, and check it right there. I usually see things I need to change a litte and tweak it on the spot.

Good luck, and it would be great to see a new vid when you think you have improved on this.

PS. For something that is really new to change, like this left arm business, to expidite the fix if using shadowing - do it in small segments such as a minute or two in the morning, some at lunch time, a little more during the day, and then a little in the evening. This will engrain the new habit much faster than one long session.

[kelz]

You're trying to belt the crap out of the ball.

[futuratennis]

+1 thats one nice shot
and kid hits pretty hard but why do you not try and at least make yourself look good when you are obviously on camera?

i'd give 200% if i was on camera :oops:

lol i agree... fix your footwork mate.. so, so lazy

[EPaps]

You're trying to belt the crap out of the ball.

Okay, and...

[mordecai]

non-existent split step really hurts you a lot.

[EPaps]

non-existent split step really hurts you a lot.

care to elaborate?

[[osu]ilovecows]

Register and watch the video on split step. It'll be worth it, trust me.

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/videos/index.php/view/962/145/Tennis_Footwork_Split_Step

[EPaps]

This was taken about a week after the previous video.

How does this look compared to my other video (left arm, etc)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVj21yTMnoc

PS - Watch in HD!

[LeeD]

I think you have the potential to make 6.0 level.
Your strokes are there.
I don't care HOW you hit the ball, as long as it goes fast, deep, has direction, and is consistent.
That said, you are LAZY!!!
Your coach is stalking around, and you're just wasting his time.
When you vid, think of yourself as a movie star. YOU TRY YOUR BEST !!
Don't care if it's your DAD you're hitting with, or Beyonce, you MOVE, you prepare early, you watch the ball, you FEED back a good first ball, and you don't misshit EVER .... at least edit it out.
What if some major coach looked at your tape? He'd say exactly what I said....tons of potential, don't waste my time with your lazy crap, just go out and throw a frisbee with your friends. !!!!
Next vid, TRY!!! It might make the difference between a pro career or just another good practice player.