Need tips for my serve

[Mansewerz]

Okay, so I'm trying to become a serve and volley/all court player.

My problem right now is that my serve is weak.

When I try to hit flat, it doesn't go so fast, and it is short. When I slice, it spins alright, but not that fast.

The biggest problem is the kick. I'm trying to use a kick serve as my main serve to allow me to close in the net well. When I hit a kicker, it floats, lands short, and doesn't kick. It like dies.

Some things that have helped were trying to lean into it, and getting a consistent toss.

My coach said to snap my wrist more, and sometimes when I try that, the ball goes flat. He said it was the fastest serve he's seen me hit, but it wasn't the kick serve that I wanted, and I didn't have as much control on it as I would have wanted.

My kick serve, and serve in general right now is inconsistent. It can kick well at times, but other times it floats and has little to no action or pace on it.

What would you say are some good things to remember on the serve that will help? Faster wrist snap? Better racquet drop?

[WildVolley]

The motion is really not too different from throwing a racket into the air. The correct form is really the key to generating power.

Some things to check are that you are using a continental grip, that you are pronating through contact (what some people call wrist snap - but is more of a forearm motion), you are going shoulder over shoulder, and that you are moving up into the ball just prior to contact. You need to have good racket drop, but it usually isn't something that you consciously need to focus on.

[Mansewerz]

The motion is really not too different from throwing a racket into the air. The correct form is really the key to generating power.

Some things to check are that you are using a continental grip, that you are pronating through contact (what some people call wrist snap - but is more of a forearm motion), you are going shoulder over shoulder, and that you are moving up into the ball just prior to contact. You need to have good racket drop, but it usually isn't something that you consciously need to focus on.

Continental grip is the grip I always use on every serve. Other grips are strange feeling. Shoulder over shoulder? Can you elaborate?


I also plan to talk to my coach next time I see him and i'm gonna take some videos when I get a camera. But, the more tips the better.

[NamRanger]

First, when learning the kick serve, break it down into multiple components. Trying to learn the kick serve all as one big motion is truly difficult and time consuming.


Many professional teachers / coaches like to break down the kick serve like this.


A. Getting the correct toss
B. Getting the correct swing motion / swing path
C. Getting the correct finish
D. Hitting the kick serve with no lower body usage


After that, then you begin to incorporate more lower body usage. Once you can hit the kick serve from a standing position and get a good feel for it, then you can go for a full motion.



Edit :


From what I can tell, there are three possible things you are doing wrong.


A. You have an incorrect toss
B. You have an incorrect swing path
C. You are not swinging fast enough


A and C are actually common problems, B is not so much. The kick serve motion is generally very similar to a slice; it's just that you are brushing at a different area of the ball and your racquet approaches at a different angle.

[Mansewerz]

First, when learning the kick serve, break it down into multiple components. Trying to learn the kick serve all as one big motion is truly difficult and time consuming.


Many professional teachers / coaches like to break down the kick serve like this.


A. Getting the correct toss
B. Getting the correct swing motion / swing path
C. Getting the correct finish
D. Hitting the kick serve with no lower body usage


After that, then you begin to incorporate more lower body usage. Once you can hit the kick serve from a standing position and get a good feel for it, then you can go for a full motion.



Edit :


From what I can tell, there are three possible things you are doing wrong.


A. You have an incorrect toss
B. You have an incorrect swing path
C. You are not swinging fast enough


A and C are actually common problems, B is not so much. The kick serve motion is generally very similar to a slice; it's just that you are brushing at a different area of the ball and your racquet approaches at a different angle.

So, where exactly should the toss be? I've heard it should be right above my head, but my brother and cousin have said to move it into the court a bit. They say it is too far back the way i'm doing it.

Also, i've watched some FYB videos, and I understand the motion of the swing and the path and finish, but i'm not so sure i'm doing it right. I'll see if I can have my brother do a quick vid of it on my phone.

Finally, for pronation, it seems awkward to do on a kick serve. Can you explain how exactly it should be done, or if you have a visual example, that would be great because i'm a visual learner.

[NamRanger]

So, where exactly should the toss be? I've heard it should be right above my head, but my brother and cousin have said to move it into the court a bit. They say it is too far back the way i'm doing it.

Also, i've watched some FYB videos, and I understand the motion of the swing and the path and finish, but i'm not so sure i'm doing it right. I'll see if I can have my brother do a quick vid of it on my phone.

Finally, for pronation, it seems awkward to do on a kick serve. Can you explain how exactly it should be done, or if you have a visual example, that would be great because i'm a visual learner.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkAj6MmwxHw


This is where it should be.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUHcAwOp5E&feature=related


Not the best video, but gives you an idea (when it goes close-up slow motion) to show pronation.

[Mansewerz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkAj6MmwxHw


This is where it should be.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUHcAwOp5E&feature=related


Not the best video, but gives you an idea (when it goes close-up slow motion) to show pronation.

I love that video, actually both of them. Thanks for that. Would it matter if it's the twist serve, or just a regular topspin serve.

[WildVolley]

Continental grip is the grip I always use on every serve. Other grips are strange feeling. Shoulder over shoulder? Can you elaborate?

Here's a video of Roddick serving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epNQNJv8334

A lot of the power on the serve is from the back shoulder tracing a path almost over the front shoulder. This is also one of the reasons that pros look like they're arching their back so much on the serve. Leaning and going shoulder over shoulder gives power and protects the shoulder joint. If you raise your arm too high in the joint on the serve, I believe it is more susceptible to injury. If you want to hit hard, make sure to get the shoulder over shoulder movement and not raise your arm too high in the socket.

[Mansewerz]

Here's a video of Roddick serving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epNQNJv8334

A lot of the power on the serve is from the back shoulder tracing a path almost over the front shoulder. This is also one of the reasons that pros look like they're arching their back so much on the serve. Leaning and going shoulder over shoulder gives power and protects the shoulder joint. If you raise your arm too high in the joint on the serve, I believe it is more susceptible to injury. If you want to hit hard, make sure to get the shoulder over shoulder movement and not raise your arm too high in the socket.

So, the two shoulders should move as one unit then?

[WildVolley]

So, the two shoulders should move as one unit then?

Yes, they sort of will anyway. What you should look for is that you point at the ball, or otherwise up high, with the tossing hand to keep the front shoulder above the rear shoulder at the start of the swing. And then, as you move up to the ball with the leg drive, your rear shoulder comes almost straight up and over your front shoulder rather than simply a horizontal twist. Your torso has to be sort of at an angle at contact with the ball in order to do this. This is the back arch a lot of people notice, though it is, in my opinion, more of a lean of the torso at contact, rather than a back arch.

I found by doing this I reduced my shoulder problems and also hit harder.

[Mansewerz]

Oh, now I see it. So instead of just rotating the core, there should be a lean as well. And this works for all types of serves, not just kick/topspin serves.

Here's some I found of Federer doing the same thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npxP6Jej9iE&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjyu2nTI_XI


By the way, is that Borg in your avatar?

[Bagumbawalla]

The kick serve is a good idea. You are on the right track.

Practice your toss with something heavier and bigger than a tennis ball- a basket ball might work.

You don't want to force anything in the serve. To get a loose, smooth stroke hold the racket loosely with just two fingers and a thumb. Hit hundreds of balls. Later, when you have the motion down, you can revert to your normal continental grip. Do not try to force a "snap". If you stroke correctly, the wrist motion will come on its own.

The serve is one of the most complex strokes. It helps if you have someone qualified standing there watching- and able to give good advice. If you really want to improve, and have some extra dollers, find a good instructor who will concentrate on your serves.

[NamRanger]

I love that video, actually both of them. Thanks for that. Would it matter if it's the twist serve, or just a regular topspin serve.


Not really at all. The Twist serve is really just a more extreme version due to the toss, which forces the racquet to strike the ball at a different path. The pronation and swing path concepts are still the same.

[Headshotterer]

i also have a wierd kick serve
sometimes it will go really high and short, other times not too high and is short
and it curves to the right a bit

[Mansewerz]

i also have a wierd kick serve
sometimes it will go really high and short, other times not too high and is short
and it curves to the right a bit

At least yours is kicking. Mine is a b!tch serve, as some would say.

[Ballinbob]

If your serve in general is inconsistent, then why are you trying to learn the most complicated serve there is right of the bat? You don't need a kick serve to serve and volley. I still bomb flat serves and follow them to the net... I would focus on the slice. You say its spinning alright,which is great. Work on getting the most spin possible with that serve and work on that wide serve. Once you get that slice with more pace and decent spin and you find its reliable, then start working on the kick. That way you have a reliable serve at least and can start building confidence with it. Start building yourself a basic,consistent game all around then start adding stuff like the kick serve and slice backhand. Start low, go high.

[Mansewerz]

If your serve in general is inconsistent, then why are you trying to learn the most complicated serve there is right of the bat? You don't need a kick serve to serve and volley. I still bomb flat serves and follow them to the net... I would focus on the slice. You say its spinning alright,which is great. Work on getting the most spin possible with that serve and work on that wide serve. Once you get that slice with more pace and decent spin and you find its reliable, then start working on the kick. That way you have a reliable serve at least and can start building confidence with it. Start building yourself a basic,consistent game all around then start adding stuff like the kick serve and slice backhand. Start low, go high.

I need to practice the slice more. I typically use it when I go out wide.

[LeeD]

Flat, slice, topped, or kicked, your serves should always land close to the opponents service line to take full effect.
That means you hit it as high over the net as you need to get keep it in the service box.
Flat serve out wide might be 4" margin for error, in height over the net.
Slightly topped flat serves maybe up to 10".
Sliced mostly have a margin for error maybe 2-3 feet, if hit around groundie speeds.
Twists and kickers slower, because your racket head is moving upwards, creating a higher arc with massive spin, to get the kick effect, so easily 3' to 6' clear of the net to go deep.
Swing slice and kicks as fast as you can physically swing the racket, with control so you don't mishit.
That should be faster than your flat serve swing, as a racket going sideways thru the air can move faster than a fully open racket face.
I suspect most servers here don't practice each serve separately and don't practice with depth, control, and consistency in mind.
Seems almost everyone here just serves the ball somewhere around the opponents service court, with no thought on depth, control, placement, or consistency.
EVERY second serve goes in....98% or so. If it's 40 out of 40, then increase speed.
60% first serves in. If better, increase speed. If worse, slow it down.

[kelz]

60% first serves in. If better, increase speed. If worse, slow it down.

You'd want it aroudn 75% (slice), unless it's an absolute rocket at 190km/h+