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zidane339
12-20-2008, 10:22 PM
Anybody have/read this book? I'm looking to recommend a Christmas gift for my parents to give to me, and was wondering if this is a good read? What sort of things does it go over?

max
12-21-2008, 08:00 AM
I really like Technical Tennis, which I think is meant as a more readable condensation of the above title's findings. Extremely interesting.

sureshs
12-21-2008, 08:20 AM
The guy who wrote that is also the Professor of TWU here.

zidane339
12-21-2008, 10:48 AM
Oh wow, interesting. I enjoy TWU's tools, so I'm really looking into getting this book!

pmata814
12-21-2008, 12:47 PM
Anybody have/read this book? I'm looking to recommend a Christmas gift for my parents to give to me, and was wondering if this is a good read? What sort of things does it go over?

I have the new version "technical tennis" and I liked it very much.

YULitle
12-21-2008, 05:15 PM
The Physics and Technology of Tennis is great. A must for anyone serious about customization.

LuckyR
12-21-2008, 05:54 PM
The Physics and Technology of Tennis is great. A must for anyone serious about customization.

True but is a great book for any player.

certifiedjatt
12-21-2008, 06:49 PM
great book, as is Technical Tennis. it will save you lots of money in the long run and you'll soon learn to ignore 99.9999 percent of the advice on tension and string types, etc., given here by people who continue to ignore objective experimentation and continue believe that just because something makes sense, it must be true.

soon you'll be arguing with many morons on here about the specifics of rackets and customization. but, i warn you, never use the word "science" in your posts. or you will be stoned. "HERETIC!!!" they will call you.

zidane339
12-21-2008, 07:58 PM
The Physics and Technology of Tennis is great. A must for anyone serious about customization.

Hey Yulitle, or anyone who has read this book, can you give a sampling of the topics the book goes over? Wondering if any of the articles will appeal to me. Thanks for all the input!

TenniseaWilliams
12-21-2008, 08:59 PM
The Physics and Technology of Tennis

Table of Contents (http://usrsa.com/store/ptot_contents.html)

zidane339
12-21-2008, 09:40 PM
The Physics and Technology of Tennis

Table of Contents (http://usrsa.com/store/ptot_contents.html)

Ah thanks!

zidane339
12-21-2008, 09:42 PM
wow looks like some amazing content for a good read!

beckham
12-21-2008, 09:44 PM
I really like Technical Tennis, which I think is meant as a more readable condensation of the above title's findings. Extremely interesting.

are you a Boy Scout??

certifiedjatt
12-22-2008, 06:48 AM
Hey Yulitle, or anyone who has read this book, can you give a sampling of the topics the book goes over? Wondering if any of the articles will appeal to me. Thanks for all the input!

one of the best lessons in the books is that string type doesn't matter and has no impact on spins, control, or power. that wasn't surprising to me because it always seemed like a marketing ploy, but i was glad to find some science behind it. there are other chapters that describe string tensions and debunk lots of myths you'll find on this board about the importance of tensions. those two things are obviously critical. it also helps you customize your racket for whatever it is you're looking for--control, power etc. it's very much like a physics text book. if you want the science without the equations, just get Technical Tennis.

max
12-22-2008, 10:05 AM
An old Eagle Scout; still very impressed with the program.

sureshs
12-22-2008, 10:58 AM
one of the best lessons in the books is that string type doesn't matter and has no impact on spins, control, or power. that wasn't surprising to me because it always seemed like a marketing ploy, but i was glad to find some science behind it.

That simply can't be true. Even at my lowly level, the spin I get from Lux is markedly more than from others.

certifiedjatt
12-22-2008, 11:47 AM
That simply can't be true. Even at my lowly level, the spin I get from Lux is markedly more than from others.

this is exactly what i'm talking about, i.e., people rejecting science because it doesn't fit into their PERCEIVED day to day life.

that isn't my OPINION; those are FACTS as demonstrated by scientific experiments. on one hand, there's the tennis community that has passed on common sense wisdom for decades. on the other hand is the scientific community that tests this wisdom. in this case, the wisdom isn't so wise. so you can either reject the conclusions of science, or try to understand why they might be true.

YULitle
12-22-2008, 12:19 PM
this is exactly what i'm talking about, i.e., people rejecting science because it doesn't fit into their PERCEIVED day to day life.

that isn't my OPINION; those are FACTS as demonstrated by scientific experiments. on one hand, there's the tennis community that has passed on common sense wisdom for decades. on the other hand is the scientific community that tests this wisdom. in this case, the wisdom isn't so wise. so you can either reject the conclusions of science, or try to understand why they might be true.

I'm behind you jatt. I'm not well versed enough in the book to know that what you are saying is 100%. They may have said that there was negligible differences in string... But still, the main idea is the same, that people make the differences to be more than they really are. Especially with power. That's the headliner of entire chapter, that string choice doesn't affect power.

Brilliant book.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/science_square_0.png

certifiedjatt
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
I'm behind you jatt. I'm not well versed enough in the book to know that what you are saying is 100%. They may have said that there was negligible differences in string... But still, the main idea is the same, that people make the differences to be more than they really are. Especially with power. That's the headliner of entire chapter, that string choice doesn't affect power.

Brilliant book.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/science_square_0.png

finally, someone who is not attributing these results to ME and my OPINION. i gain nothing out of it. i remember having a long winded argument on this forum with a bunch of people about the same topic, and i kept getting attacked. it was as if i was the anti-christ.

and, of course, different strings give different properties so the difference between power and control will never be exactly 0. but ,as you said, it is negligible. and anyone exposed to science (and it seems that you are) will know that scientists--especially those that do not gain from these conclusions--will never use the word "negligible" unless the changes approach 0.

anyway, great boook. everyone should read it. especially excited teenagers!

sureshs
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
this is exactly what i'm talking about, i.e., people rejecting science because it doesn't fit into their PERCEIVED day to day life.

that isn't my OPINION; those are FACTS as demonstrated by scientific experiments. on one hand, there's the tennis community that has passed on common sense wisdom for decades. on the other hand is the scientific community that tests this wisdom. in this case, the wisdom isn't so wise. so you can either reject the conclusions of science, or try to understand why they might be true.

I would like to know what was really said in the book. I understand if someone claims that Lux BB ALU produces great topspin without having experienced it. But if it is visible, I don't see how it contradicts science. It is possible the book does not say what it is supposed to have said, or it was written before polys became popular.

To be sure, people have said that recreational players using poly is a waste of money. That is true even if produces great spin, because the rest of the game is not there to utilize it. Almost all top players use poly, specially in hybrid setup. I doubt that they would do it if it did not have certain characteristics.

I don't play with Lux anymore, because I prefer a softer string which moves even less (Prince recoil). But I remember that when I used a fresh Lux job, the ball moved so much after bounce that my regular opponents got their forehands and backhands messed up (ball moved so much from one side to the other after bounce).

YULitle
12-22-2008, 02:37 PM
I couldn't find anything about spin: plenty on power, but none on spin.

Can I get a page number?

TenniseaWilliams
12-22-2008, 03:24 PM
I couldn't find anything about spin: plenty on power, but none on spin.

Can I get a page number?



Ball Spin and Bounce off a Racquet, p370

Spin Rules
Rule 1: faster you hit it, the faster it spins
Rule 2: strings don't make much difference
Rule 3: Max spin occurs at an angle of incidence near 40 degrees


I think certifiedjatt is perhaps a little off when he states the book claims "that string type doesn't matter", or that tension and string type don't effect control.

certifiedjatt
12-22-2008, 08:20 PM
Ball Spin and Bounce off a Racquet, p370

Spin Rules
Rule 1: faster you hit it, the faster it spins
Rule 2: strings don't make much difference
Rule 3: Max spin occurs at an angle of incidence near 40 degrees


I think certifiedjatt is perhaps a little off when he states the book claims "that string type doesn't matter", or that tension and string type don't effect control.

i think off because there's obviously a minimum tension you want, so to be able to hit the ball properly. but i'm DEATHLY curious about stringing my racket at like 35lbs or even 30lbs to see the difference.

but, Rule 2 speaks for itself.

TenniseaWilliams
12-22-2008, 08:49 PM
i think off because there's obviously a minimum tension you want, so to be able to hit the ball properly. but i'm DEATHLY curious about stringing my racket at like 35lbs or even 30lbs to see the difference.

but, Rule 2 speaks for itself.


Rule 2 is about spin.

The book mentions in several places the effects of string tension/composition on control and feel variables.

tenzinrocks
12-27-2008, 11:04 PM
What I noticed was physics was boring. It really didn't teach me anything. It was hard for me to learn until the teacher used some tennis references and I just woke up and things got a little easier. If you play tennis, you already know some physics and the more advanced you are, the higher physics you'll naturally learn.

SystemicAnomaly
12-28-2008, 02:35 AM
Excerpts from Technical (http://racquettech.com/store/technical_contents.html) Tennis (http://racquettech.com/store/technical_contents.html) (2005) by Rod Cross & Crawford Lindsey

From Chapter 2, section on Tension and Spin (pg 80):

"Test have shown that string tension (or gauge, or material) has virtually no effects on spin. Yet players insist that they get more spin. What gives?

... because tighter strings produce less depth, the player swings harder to get the depth back. A faster swing then produces more spin. The second explanation is based on the illusion of more spin. If the ball is leaving the racquet slower... with tight strings but with the same spin, the speed-to-spin ratio will be greater, and the ball will bounce as if it has more spin. So, tight strings do not in themselves cause more spin, but they might cause the player to create more spin... 'String tight if you want to add more spin.'"

From Chapter 4, section on Can Racquets & Strings Increase Spin? (pg 130-132):

"How do you create more friction and make it last as long as possible in order to generate more spin? Common tennis lore says that you can use:

Tighter.../looser strings
Denser.../open string pattern
Thinner strings
Rougher strings
Soft strings like natural gut
Polyurethane coated strings

... Each of the methods above does indeed affect how friction acts, but not the end result of that action. That fact is that all strings achieve about the same results with respect to spin. Some combinations of strings, patterns, and tensions do it by achieving a higher friction force over a smaller time and others by a lower force over a longer time. But laboratory experiments show that the end result is always the same spin.

You can increase spin by changing the racquet path or speed or by tilting your racquet, but not by altering the stringbed...

You don't get more spin from the strings, only from stroke technique. Your equipment may cause you to hit your stroke differently, and that may cause more spin. But the equipment has very little, if any, direct affect on spin."

.