Backhand Slice Follow through: Style or Substance

[Mansewerz]

So, i've been trying to develop my backhand slice. One of the things that I've been curious about is the follow through.

Would there be a significant difference between a follow through that just goes down and decelerates in the same direction, like:

Federer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPdlGW4vEE&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXM3I9E4E8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1a_-94peLE

Or raising the arm up after contact like the Fuzzy Yellow Balls Crew:

http://blip.tv/file/1167197/
http://blip.tv/file/1170322/
http://blip.tv/file/1170488/

[Kevo]

Those look like different slice situations to me. I think if you have the full view and could see where the ball went you would notice that Federer is chipping the ball short, while the FYB guy is hitting a deep slice.

There is no single follow through for any stroke. Just guidelines for a typical stroke. In fact, I think a lot of people concentrate on the follow through too much. The follow through should be a natural consequence of hitting the ball a certain way.

When you say you are trying to develop your slice, what are you trying to do with it. Are you using it to get into net, for defense on the backhand side, or for regular groundstroke rallies?

[In D Zone]

These are variation of the different follow through of a slice.

- the first two clips from Federer: shown that he sliced the ball with a chopping motion. This is what's known as a Spanish Slice, effective against a high jumping topspin (shoulder high) coming at you.

- Third clip from Fed: slicing the ball with a bit more side spin (notice the racquet side moving way from left to right) rather than the traditional slice.

FYB clips: shows more traditional slice stroke (ball coming right by the normal strike zone) and when you have time to prepare.

[Djokovicfan4life]

I think that you should think of the follow through as the same motion that you would use to make the safe sign in baseball. The hitting arm goes down and then back up with the racquet in an open face, while the left arm extends back behind you to keep you on balance.

In those Federer clips you posted, the video cuts off halfway through his follow through. If they kept going I think you would see that he lifts his arm up after contact for the majority of his slices, just like Will teaches on Fuzzy Yellow Balls.

[Mansewerz]

Those look like different slice situations to me. I think if you have the full view and could see where the ball went you would notice that Federer is chipping the ball short, while the FYB guy is hitting a deep slice.

There is no single follow through for any stroke. Just guidelines for a typical stroke. In fact, I think a lot of people concentrate on the follow through too much. The follow through should be a natural consequence of hitting the ball a certain way.

When you say you are trying to develop your slice, what are you trying to do with it. Are you using it to get into net, for defense on the backhand side, or for regular groundstroke rallies?

Pretty much all three.

I think that you should think of the follow through as the same motion that you would use to make the safe sign in baseball. The hitting arm goes down and then back up with the racquet in an open face, while the left arm extends back behind you to keep you on balance.

In those Federer clips you posted, the video cuts off halfway through his follow through. If they kept going I think you would see that he lifts his arm up after contact for the majority of his slices, just like Will teaches on Fuzzy Yellow Balls.

I try that, and the slice floats a lot, and would sail out.

These are variation of the different follow through of a slice.

- the first two clips from Federer: shown that he sliced the ball with a chopping motion. This is what's known as a Spanish Slice, effective against a high jumping topspin (shoulder high) coming at you.

- Third clip from Fed: slicing the ball with a bit more side spin (notice the racquet side moving way from left to right) rather than the traditional slice.

FYB clips: shows more traditional slice stroke (ball coming right by the normal strike zone) and when you have time to prepare.

So is the general consensus to go down at the ball, and then bring it back up? My brother and cousin both have good slices and do the Federer down and out, rather than down and up.

[In D Zone]

Here's a more detailed video on the different types of 1bh and slice made by Brad Gilbert and the Bryan Twins:

Video's about 26minute long - covers alot about the backhand strokes

http://www.sportskool.com/videos/backhand-advanced

[Djokovicfan4life]

If your slice is floating long, you're probably opening up the racquet face too much at contact. A slight grip adjustment between the eastern backhand and continental grip could help you, or perhaps simply concentrate on a less open face.

Also, be sure to step into your slice just like you would for a drive. A lot of people tend to get lazy with the feet because the slice is not hit with as much pace. This can cause the slice to float as well.

[Ballinbob]

there are so many ways to slice its not even funny. I personally finish like the guy from the FYB vids, but thats me. Honestly dude, just reserve the slice for those emergency situations. I"m a onehander and I will always drive my backhand if I can. A drive has a better chance of doing some damage and putting you in an offensive situation. Yes I know a slice if used effectively it can be used offensivley, but a drive is usually better. Use the slice to change up a rally and defensively. I know people are going to flame me and say that a slice is a great approach shot if you hit down the line. I agree, it is but let me ask you this... Can you really hit a slice that goes down the line and skids low everytime?? You really have to aim this shot really well to make it effective. The slice is slow and if it isnt placed good then your toast. Just hit a harder topspin shot in the general direction of dtl and you'll be better off in most cases. For more advanced players the slice may be more effective to approach of off but at our level (highschool) a simple topspin approach works fine.

I would work on putting some pace/spin on that twohander than worry about a slice right now. A slice is great to have but dont get too caught up with it. Work on your serve,groundies,footwork right now and work on finding a style of play your good at it. When you told me that you don't even know your style of play that tells me you still got alot of experimenting to do. Your other thread with returning like Andy Murray is great. Unfortunatley I cant help you there b/c my return is pretty bad. Anyway working on your return will help you a ton more right now than a slice.

Not telling you what to do, but take it into consideration

[junbumkim]

The first slice backhand by Federer is hit on a relatively high ball, that's why you don't really see his swing coming back up as high

The other two clips of slice backhand by Federer are not even complete. If the complete clips would show his swing coming back up.

The rule of thumb for slice backhand is that you finish as high as you started.
The followthrough can vary depending on the type of ball and situation but the variation take place unintentionally.

[Mansewerz]

Here's a more detailed video on the different types of 1bh and slice made by Brad Gilbert and the Bryan Twins:

Video's about 26minute long - covers alot about the backhand strokes

http://www.sportskool.com/videos/backhand-advanced

Great video.

I really liked Gilbert's approach to the coaching (even though he can be annoying as a commentator).


So, would you guys say that on a lower ball, a more off to the side finish is common?

[Mansewerz]

Here's a slice where the arm comes back up (Justine Henin).

I never watched her play though. I know her topspin backhand was good. How was her slice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzW401yri4&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

[Kevo]

So, would you guys say that on a lower ball, a more off to the side finish is common?

The side finish is definitely more common on a lower ball, but you can have other finishes on a low ball. I hit all kinds of different slices and I never think about the finish unless I miss one. And even then, it's not the finish that got me, it was my prep. So I have to correct myself a second time once I realize I was fixated on the finish.

[Kevo]

there are so many ways to slice its not even funny. I personally finish like the guy from the FYB vids, but thats me. Honestly dude, just reserve the slice for those emergency situations. I"m a onehander and I will always drive my backhand if I can. A drive has a better chance of doing some damage and putting you in an offensive situation. Yes I know a slice if used effectively it can be used offensivley, but a drive is usually better. Use the slice to change up a rally and defensively. I know people are going to flame me and say that a slice is a great approach shot if you hit down the line. I agree, it is but let me ask you this... Can you really hit a slice that goes down the line and skids low everytime?? You really have to aim this shot really well to make it effective. The slice is slow and if it isnt placed good then your toast. Just hit a harder topspin shot in the general direction of dtl and you'll be better off in most cases. For more advanced players the slice may be more effective to approach of off but at our level (highschool) a simple topspin approach works fine.

I think you'd be surprised what you could do with a reasonable slice. A really good slice is a devastating shot. Try practicing only slice for a couple of days and see how many of your hitting partners hate you afterwards. For a lot of players it will be much tougher for them to do something with a good slice than a good topspin drive.

I've hit with quite a few high school kids that think it's flat out unfair when I hit slice to them, especially since it's almost impossible for them to hit their usual topspin stroke off a well executed slice. Also, there's no reason slice has to be slow. Many times a defensive slice is slow, but that is advantageous when your on defense. An offensive slice can be hit quite hard.

[Charlzz]

I think you'd be surprised what you could do with a reasonable slice. A really good slice is a devastating shot. Try practicing only slice for a couple of days and see how many of your hitting partners hate you afterwards. For a lot of players it will be much tougher for them to do something with a good slice than a good topspin drive.

I've hit with quite a few high school kids that think it's flat out unfair when I hit slice to them, especially since it's almost impossible for them to hit their usual topspin stroke off a well executed slice. Also, there's no reason slice has to be slow. Many times a defensive slice is slow, but that is advantageous when your on defense. An offensive slice can be hit quite hard.

I'm inclined to think a good slice shot down the line is hard to hit. Certainly, Steffi Graf lived off the crosscourt shot and hit that as well as any woman has hit the slice backhand. I recall back in the days of chip and charge types like McEnroe or Martina, that hitting down the line with slice was a bit challenging because they would have to hit so close to the line. Sometimes their approaches would drift wide, something you don't see as much of with the topspin shots of today.

If they got it particularly deep, their opponent often had little recourse. To be fair, in those days, you didn't have as many players standing 10-12 feet behind the baseline, but were more likely to be right at the baseline, trying to deal with these shots.

It's probably a shot worth learning, but it does seem like you need to hit it pretty well, which means a good deal of practice and solid technique.

[Djokovicfan4life]

Great video.

I really liked Gilbert's approach to the coaching (even though he can be annoying as a commentator).


So, would you guys say that on a lower ball, a more off to the side finish is common?

On a lower ball, you pretty much have no choice but to swing more left to right to avoid slamming you racquet on the ground, so yeah, I guess you could say that.

[Kevo]

I'm inclined to think a good slice shot down the line is hard to hit.

I agree with this. I typically do not slice down the line unless the ball is high. Of course if you're playing a big loopy topspin player you can almost hit any slice you want since the ball will almost always be plenty high. I don't like the floating slice shot except for defense.

My favorite slices are deep and low when coming into the net on something a bit short. I always like to slice directly into the feet of a player as that often produces an error or something short.

Besides, a nasty slice is just a really fun shot to hit. I'd put it a close second to the 1HBH ripper down the line.

[LeeD]

I think a fairly long follow thru is the most important factor in a consistent stroke, at a decent 4 level at least.
It should be fairly consistent, the followthru, but different according to the high of the shot and the kind of shot the perpetrator hits.
Now consider this.....
You know a deep shot is more effective than a short faster ball, right?
Remember those target tennis exhibitions a few decades ago? EVERY pro player could hit deeper more consistently with underspin...ie SLICE, than they could flat, side, or topped.
Now true, if you hit a soft deep approach against Nadal, he'd whack the well out of the ball and hurt you.
Now consider this..... WHO actually are you playing against? I'd imagine someone similarly skilled to YOU!! Meaning a 4 to 4.5 player with almost the same weakness's and strengths YOU have. And certainly NOT against someone with Nadals skills and strength.
So don't discount a soft, deep, under\sidespun ball, up to and including 6.0 levels.

[Ballinbob]

hey guys, sorry to bring up a dead thread but I have a question:

I have a weak topspin onehanded backhand, and so I end up slicing pretty much every backhand I get. I have pretty good form for this shot, but I was thinking of using a driving slice more often. I want to be able to attack with my backhand, not just defend.

Anyway, is a driving slice hit just like a normal slice? Is the follow through any different or what? Anything I should keep in mind when doing this stroke?

Thanks

[RestockingTues]

hey guys, sorry to bring up a dead thread but I have a question:

I have a weak topspin onehanded backhand, and so I end up slicing pretty much every backhand I get. I have pretty good form for this shot, but I was thinking of using a driving slice more often. I want to be able to attack with my backhand, not just defend.

Anyway, is a driving slice hit just like a normal slice? Is the follow through any different or what? Anything I should keep in mind when doing this stroke?

Thanks
Same stroke, but you're driving through the ball more. Less high-to-low, and go through the ball more.

I'd recommend sticking with the topspin drive though; you KNOW how to hit the shot, it's just a matter of practicing it until the muscle memory kicks in.

[LeeD]

I think every onehander needs both a slice and a top.
Reason.... sometimes, we don't have time to prep for the drive, and onehander's need slightly more prepwork than twohanders.
Main thing with slice drive is to move slightly forward thru the stroke, hit it deep and LOW over the net (at least a foot, but not over 3'), but be sure to place it deep with a hard slice that makes the ball go slightly oval and skidded on landing.
Every pro, when asked to get the ball deep, uses slice.
Topspin is great, but hard to just keep getting it deep.
And every Junior is expecting, wanting, and waiting for your topspin drive.
Use the deep, hard slice for deception and exception.
Some players use eastern back, some a combo of continental with some eastern FOREHAND. Yes, that sounds weird, but that last combo, combined with good footwork and prep, can slice the snot out of the ball.

[Slicendicer]

Follow thru is a must. With the slice you should finish with the racquet straight out in front with your right arm and racquet in an L shape, or with the buttcap pointing toward the sky... depending on the height of the ball. This is just 1 method, there are many... the pros I worked with produced some world-class players and that is what we taught.