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View Full Version : Why are women in Greek mythology fat?


oneguy21
12-31-2008, 12:59 PM
title says all

dave333
12-31-2008, 01:38 PM
In the past, fatness was a sign of wealth and power. Six pack's and what we consider sexy bodies showed you were poor, as you probably weren't eating enough and were working too much.

As a result, fatness was considered more attractive.

RestockingTues
12-31-2008, 01:39 PM
In addition to the first democratic form of government, the ancient Greeks were also the first civilization to have a professional women's tennis league.

Fee
12-31-2008, 01:46 PM
They aren't fat, they are realistic. Women have curves and for centuries 'child bearing hips' were prized by men for obvious reasons (along with child bearing cup sizes, I suppose).

According to a poll that was done in the UK recently, it's still true today to a certain extent - men shown pictures of 3 women showed a preference for the size 10 curvy type over the size 2 stick insect type.

max
12-31-2008, 02:21 PM
Where's your source? What about Diana?

TonyB
12-31-2008, 03:51 PM
According to a poll that was done in the UK recently, it's still true today to a certain extent - men shown pictures of 3 women showed a preference for the size 10 curvy type over the size 2 stick insect type.



Hahaha!! Classic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt I could find any man that prefers size 10 women over, let's say, size 4 women. Thinner with muscle tone is more attractive than fat, period.

Going all the way to "stick type" women is ridiculous. Of course nobody will prefer anorexics over "healthy" women.

GeorgeLucas
12-31-2008, 03:58 PM
They need all that cushion cause those Greek gods sure were pushin'

Oui, c'est moi.
12-31-2008, 05:38 PM
Hahaha!! Classic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt I could find any man that prefers size 10 women over, let's say, size 4 women. Thinner with muscle tone is more attractive than fat, period.

Going all the way to "stick type" women is ridiculous. Of course nobody will prefer anorexics over "healthy" women.
Bear in mind a UK size 10 is a US size 8.

But still...size 4??:???: That's a size 6 over here, it makes me gag thinking that's what you find more attractive.:-?

Mick
12-31-2008, 05:41 PM
probably because there was no jenny craig or weight watchers back in those times :)

Fee
12-31-2008, 05:43 PM
Hahaha!! Classic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt I could find any man that prefers size 10 women over, let's say, size 4 women. Thinner with muscle tone is more attractive than fat, period.

Going all the way to "stick type" women is ridiculous. Of course nobody will prefer anorexics over "healthy" women.

Do you know what a size 10 is? Most of them are not fat. It's the size my husband prefers me to be, he thought I was far too thin and sickly looking when I was a 6, not even a 4. (I'm above a 10 right now, as soon as my PT says I can exercise again, I'm getting back in shape). Personally, I'd rather look like Elena Dementieva from the neck down, but I can't afford that kind of gym time.

RestockingTues
12-31-2008, 05:46 PM
Do you know what a size 10 is? Most of them are not fat. It's the size my husband prefers me to be, he thought I was far too thin and sickly looking when I was a 6, not even a 4. (I'm above a 10 right now, as soon as my PT says I can exercise again, I'm getting back in shape). Personally, I'd rather look like Elena Dementieva from the neck down, but I can't afford that kind of gym time.

Fee's a WOMAN? :shock:

Fee
12-31-2008, 05:49 PM
Fee's a WOMAN? :shock:

You've been here a year and you just figured that out? Congrats. When would you like me to tell you the US election results? ;)

ThugNasty
12-31-2008, 05:50 PM
Hahaha!! Classic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt I could find any man that prefers size 10 women over, let's say, size 4 women. Thinner with muscle tone is more attractive than fat, period.

Going all the way to "stick type" women is ridiculous. Of course nobody will prefer anorexics over "healthy" women.

I agree completely.

Zeppy
12-31-2008, 05:51 PM
Fee's a WOMAN? :shock:

I'm shocked myself too. But no matter, Fee's a cool person. Haha, I believe she was the one that taught me that Scotland was a part of Britain.

Dave's explanation about fatness in the Greek Ages does sound reasonable but Fee may also be right. Haha, I don't know anymore.

Happy New Years!

Mick
12-31-2008, 05:53 PM
you guys missed all those pics that fee posed next to the top tennis players.

Fee
12-31-2008, 05:55 PM
Seriously, could the two of you please point out to me exactly which of my posts suggests that I am a man? I'm a bit perplexed by this confusion (who cares what my user profile says, I gave up on that obvious clue being of any use years ago).

Eph
12-31-2008, 05:56 PM
Fat people ate well, skinny people were peasants.

S H O W S T O P P E R !
12-31-2008, 06:46 PM
They aren't fat, they are realistic. Women have curves and for centuries 'child bearing hips' were prized by men for obvious reasons (along with child bearing cup sizes, I suppose).

According to a poll that was done in the UK recently, it's still true today to a certain extent - men shown pictures of 3 women showed a preference for the size 10 curvy type over the size 2 stick insect type.

Another poll said that size 14 women are the happiest over all other women of different sizes. Size 6 (very skinny) were 4th unhappiest. And if I read it right, size 24's are the least happiest. Go figure.

Sentinel
12-31-2008, 09:22 PM
In the past, fatness was a sign of wealth and power. Six pack's and what we consider sexy bodies showed you were poor, as you probably weren't eating enough and were working too much.

As a result, fatness was considered more attractive.

I did read an article somewhere a year back that in Britain (about a 100 years back), thin women were considered unattractive because that meant they were poor and worked in the fields. Fat women were considered unattractive.
I prefer my wife to be normal, not a "stick insect" - (haha, nice one Fee).

That said she prefers me with six-packs.

Nanshiki
12-31-2008, 10:24 PM
Fat people were rich, fit people were soldiers (SPAAAARTAAAAA!!!!), thin people were poor.

/thread

PCXL-Fan
12-31-2008, 10:52 PM
Hahaha!! Classic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt I could find any man that prefers size 10 women over, let's say, size 4 women. Thinner with muscle tone is more attractive than fat, period.

Going all the way to "stick type" women is ridiculous. Of course nobody will prefer anorexics over "healthy" women.

It had to do with curves. Not fatness. Curves such as hour glass hip waist ratio, large breast, large buttox. Feminine features. Higher levels of estrogen lead to more prominent female attributes in general.

Same thing occurs with testosterone and male attributes. (I had to say that or in all likelihood various women on this forum would disregard this)

Read up animal studies and endocinology. Read up on how hormone levels effect the development of various gender specific attributes in the developmental stages of life. Also read up on how social status can have significant impact on the hormone levels.

Sentinel
12-31-2008, 11:57 PM
Also read up on how social status can have significant impact on the hormone levels.

any links on that. I had no idea!

adams_1
01-01-2009, 01:20 AM
Seriously, could the two of you please point out to me exactly which of my posts suggests that I am a man? I'm a bit perplexed by this confusion (who cares what my user profile says, I gave up on that obvious clue being of any use years ago).

It isn't the post content, it's the fact that there are no girls on the internet ;)

angharad
01-01-2009, 02:30 AM
It had to do with curves. Not fatness. Curves such as hour glass hip waist ratio, large breast, large buttox. Feminine features. Higher levels of estrogen lead to more prominent female attributes in general.


There's actually a very specific proportion - I believe where the waist diameter is 70% of the the hip diameter - that's most attractive. That waist-hip ratio also provides the fewest problems or complications when delivering a child.

Fee
01-01-2009, 09:54 AM
It isn't the post content, it's the fact that there are no girls on the internet ;)

Maybe not, but there are plenty of women on the internet. We're the ones who make the intelligent posts. ;)

dave333
01-01-2009, 09:56 AM
There's actually a very specific proportion - I believe where the waist diameter is 70% of the the hip diameter - that's most attractive. That waist-hip ratio also provides the fewest problems or complications when delivering a child.

That ratio also gives you the sexiest walk....which goes to Jessica Alba! She has that perfect .7 ratio.

A picture to enjoy:
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00437/SNFFITJA-180_437820a.jpg

sureshs
01-01-2009, 10:03 AM
I don't like fat women, Greek or not.

Eph
01-01-2009, 10:16 AM
From a neuroscience list I subscribe to.

<<Adapted from Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters, by Alan S. Miller and Satoshi Kanazawa, to be published by Perigee in September
2007.>>

1.Men like blond bombshells (and women want to look like them)

Long before TV-in 15th- and 16th- century Italy, and possibly two
millennia ago-women were dying their hair blond. A recent study shows
that in Iran, where exposure to Western media and culture is limited,
women are actually more concerned with their body image, and want to
lose more weight, than their American counterparts. It is difficult to
ascribe the preferences and desires of women in 15th-century Italy and
21st-century Iran to socialization by media.

Women's desire to look like Barbie-young with small waist, large
breasts, long blond hair, and blue eyes-is a direct, realistic, and
sensible response to the desire of men to mate with women who look
like her. There is evolutionary logic behind each of these features.

Men prefer young women in part because they tend to be healthier than
older women. One accurate indicator of health is physical
attractiveness; another is hair. Healthy women have lustrous, shiny
hair, whereas the hair of sickly people loses its luster. Because hair
grows slowly, shoulder-length hair reveals several years of a woman's
health status.

Men also have a universal preference for women with a low waist-to-hip
ratio. They are healthier and more fertile than other women; they have
an easier time conceiving a child and do so at earlier ages because
they have larger amounts of essential reproductive hormones. Thus men
are unconsciously seeking healthier and more fertile women when they
seek women with small waists.

Until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why
men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman's
breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. But Harvard
anthropologist Frank Marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier,
breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. Thus
they make it easier for men to judge a woman's age (and her
reproductive value) by sight-suggesting why men find women with large
breasts more attractive.

Alternatively, men may prefer women with large breasts for the same
reason they prefer women with small waists. A new study of Polish
women shows that women with large breasts and tight waists have the
greatest fecundity, indicated by their levels of two reproductive
hormones (estradiol and progesterone).

Blond hair is unique in that it changes dramatically with age.
Typically, young girls with light blond hair become women with brown
hair. Thus, men who prefer to mate with blond women are unconsciously
attempting to mate with younger (and hence, on average, healthier and
more fecund) women. It is no coincidence that blond hair evolved in
Scandinavia and northern Europe, probably as an alternative means for
women to advertise their youth, as their bodies were concealed under
heavy clothing.

Women with blue eyes should not be any different from those with green
or brown eyes. Yet preference for blue eyes seems both universal and
undeniable-in males as well as females. One explanation is that the
human pupil dilates when an individual is exposed to something that
she likes. For instance, the pupils of women and infants (but not men)
spontaneously dilate when they see babies. Pupil dilation is an honest
indicator of interest and attraction. And the size of the pupil is
easiest to determine in blue eyes. Blue-eyed people are considered
attractive as potential mates because it is easiest to determine
whether they are interested in us or not.

The irony is that none of the above is true any longer. Through
face-lifts, wigs, liposuction, surgical breast augmentation, hair
dye, and color contact lenses, any woman, regardless of age, can have
many of the key features that define ideal female beauty. And men
fall for them. Men can cognitively understand that many blond women
with firm, large breasts are not actually 15 years old, but they
still find them attractive because their evolved psychological
mechanisms are fooled by modern inventions that did not exist in the
ancestral environment.

10. Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining
the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing
number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a
necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual
harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you
want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment"
(the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and
comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain
sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies,
Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment
in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in
short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent
of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger
agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an
attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger
nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's
greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use
any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that
sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends
it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about
power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about
guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from
sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or
"hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have
been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by
their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered
the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive,
intimidating, and degrading treatment.

Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire
of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are
not treating women differently from men-the definition of
discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls-but the
opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not
discriminating between men and women.

PCXL-Fan
01-01-2009, 10:19 AM
Maybe not, but there are plenty of women on the internet. We're the ones who make the intelligent posts. ;)

I'm not a woman. ;)

Breaker
01-01-2009, 10:20 AM
Maybe not, but there are plenty of women on the internet. We're the ones who make the intelligent posts. ;)

I didn't know Fedace was a woman.

sureshs
01-01-2009, 10:23 AM
I didn't know Fedace was a woman.

If you observe carefully, Fee is part of Fedace

lilycolefan
01-01-2009, 10:27 AM
I don't find blonde women attractive at all. That whole men like blond women is ********. I agree with the waist and breasts part though. Also, women are most fertile at 23.

Eph
01-01-2009, 10:29 AM
I find evolutionary biology to be mainly nonsense, but there is some good work.

Just throwing it out there.

GeorgeLucas
01-01-2009, 10:32 AM
If you observe carefully, Fee is part of Fedace

Excellent deduction, Watson.

dave333
01-01-2009, 10:38 AM
If you observe carefully, Fee is part of Fedace

Quite a bombshell, really.

RestockingTues
01-01-2009, 10:44 AM
You've been here a year and you just figured that out? Congrats. When would you like me to tell you the US election results? ;)

I like to cling to the faint belief that SOMEWHERE out there exists an intelligent male :? So far, my faith in my gender isn't very strong.

RestockingTues
01-01-2009, 10:47 AM
If you observe carefully, Fee is part of Fedace

Now we can figure out if Oswald really shot Kennedy :lol:

sureshs
01-01-2009, 10:47 AM
From a neuroscience list I subscribe to.

<<Adapted from Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters, by Alan S. Miller and Satoshi Kanazawa, to be published by Perigee in September
2007.>>

1.Men like blond bombshells (and women want to look like them)

Long before TV-in 15th- and 16th- century Italy, and possibly two
millennia ago-women were dying their hair blond. A recent study shows
that in Iran, where exposure to Western media and culture is limited,
women are actually more concerned with their body image, and want to
lose more weight, than their American counterparts. It is difficult to
ascribe the preferences and desires of women in 15th-century Italy and
21st-century Iran to socialization by media.

Women's desire to look like Barbie-young with small waist, large
breasts, long blond hair, and blue eyes-is a direct, realistic, and
sensible response to the desire of men to mate with women who look
like her. There is evolutionary logic behind each of these features.

Men prefer young women in part because they tend to be healthier than
older women. One accurate indicator of health is physical
attractiveness; another is hair. Healthy women have lustrous, shiny
hair, whereas the hair of sickly people loses its luster. Because hair
grows slowly, shoulder-length hair reveals several years of a woman's
health status.

Men also have a universal preference for women with a low waist-to-hip
ratio. They are healthier and more fertile than other women; they have
an easier time conceiving a child and do so at earlier ages because
they have larger amounts of essential reproductive hormones. Thus men
are unconsciously seeking healthier and more fertile women when they
seek women with small waists.

Until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why
men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman's
breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. But Harvard
anthropologist Frank Marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier,
breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. Thus
they make it easier for men to judge a woman's age (and her
reproductive value) by sight-suggesting why men find women with large
breasts more attractive.

Alternatively, men may prefer women with large breasts for the same
reason they prefer women with small waists. A new study of Polish
women shows that women with large breasts and tight waists have the
greatest fecundity, indicated by their levels of two reproductive
hormones (estradiol and progesterone).

Blond hair is unique in that it changes dramatically with age.
Typically, young girls with light blond hair become women with brown
hair. Thus, men who prefer to mate with blond women are unconsciously
attempting to mate with younger (and hence, on average, healthier and
more fecund) women. It is no coincidence that blond hair evolved in
Scandinavia and northern Europe, probably as an alternative means for
women to advertise their youth, as their bodies were concealed under
heavy clothing.

Women with blue eyes should not be any different from those with green
or brown eyes. Yet preference for blue eyes seems both universal and
undeniable-in males as well as females. One explanation is that the
human pupil dilates when an individual is exposed to something that
she likes. For instance, the pupils of women and infants (but not men)
spontaneously dilate when they see babies. Pupil dilation is an honest
indicator of interest and attraction. And the size of the pupil is
easiest to determine in blue eyes. Blue-eyed people are considered
attractive as potential mates because it is easiest to determine
whether they are interested in us or not.

The irony is that none of the above is true any longer. Through
face-lifts, wigs, liposuction, surgical breast augmentation, hair
dye, and color contact lenses, any woman, regardless of age, can have
many of the key features that define ideal female beauty. And men
fall for them. Men can cognitively understand that many blond women
with firm, large breasts are not actually 15 years old, but they
still find them attractive because their evolved psychological
mechanisms are fooled by modern inventions that did not exist in the
ancestral environment.

10. Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining
the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing
number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a
necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual
harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you
want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment"
(the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and
comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain
sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies,
Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment
in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in
short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent
of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger
agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an
attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger
nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's
greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use
any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that
sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends
it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about
power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about
guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from
sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or
"hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have
been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by
their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered
the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive,
intimidating, and degrading treatment.

Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire
of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are
not treating women differently from men-the definition of
discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls-but the
opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not
discriminating between men and women.

Don't buy this conservative-apologist crap. Conservatives always retreat to Darwin when confronted by these issues, and then reemerge as "creationists" later. Many cases of sexual harrassment are not about sex - it involves calling women "itches" or asking them to fetch coffee. If you have had mandatory sexual harrassment training as I have (mandated for managers in large corporations by both federal and state statutes), you will see that a large number of the real-life legal cases studied consist of publicly insulting women and degrading them, and just trying to force them to quit. The bosses often had no interest in the women physically. The non-quid-pro-quo cases (hostile environment) often consisted of men angry that a woman was employed in a construction company or blue-collar job which they thought only men should be allowed to do. It had nothing to do any kind of attraction to the woman.
And the Supreme Court case where a guy was harassed on an oil rig was judged as a valid sexual harrassment case and sent back to the lower courts - but the guys were not gay. They just picked on this guy who they felt could be gay and kept threatening him. None of them had any sexual interest in him. So yes, men have treated men badly for centuries, but often not for sexual reasons. The arguments of this writer seems to be of the kind "racial discrimination does not exist because people have been discriminating against each other for ever on other grounds" An argument carefully designed to make conservatives feel good, and nothing else.

sureshs
01-01-2009, 10:50 AM
Excellent deduction, Watson.

Quite a bombshell, really.

Thanks. Can we take it a bit further and suggest that they are the same person?

Fee
01-01-2009, 10:59 AM
Excellent deduction, Watson.

Quite a bombshell, really.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Maybe more than a little bit. Eww, I think I'm going back to bed until I can recover from this, absolutely the grossest concept ever presented on this forum, even putting me in the same sentence with that patho liar troll. Just eww.

I like to cling to the faint belief that SOMEWHERE out there exists an intelligent male :? So far, my faith in my gender isn't very strong.

Awww, hang in there. There are some very smart male posters on this forum.

sureshs
01-01-2009, 11:06 AM
Now we can figure out if Oswald really shot Kennedy :lol:

Or John Cauthen's theory of how racquet manufacturers give good racquets only to the players who they want to win. Haven't heard from him of late.

Okazaki Fragment
01-01-2009, 11:13 AM
From a neuroscience list I subscribe to.

Until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why
men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman's
breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. But Harvard
anthropologist Frank Marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier,
breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. Thus
they make it easier for men to judge a woman's age (and her
reproductive value) by sight-suggesting why men find women with large
breasts more attractive.


Thanks for the post. It was an interesting read. I liked this explanation especially.

Eph
01-01-2009, 11:45 AM
5. Having sons reduces the likelihood of divorce

Sociologists and demographers have discovered that couples who have at
least one son face significantly less risk of divorce than couples who
have only daughters. Why is this?

Since a man's mate value is largely determined by his wealth, status,
and power-whereas a woman's is largely determined by her youth and
physical attractiveness-the father has to make sure that his son will
inherit his wealth, status, and power, regardless of how much or how
little of these resources he has. In contrast, there is relatively
little that a father (or mother) can do to keep a daughter youthful or
make her more physically attractive.

The continued presence of (and investment by) the father is therefore
important for the son, but not as crucial for the daughter. The
presence of sons thus deters divorce and departure of the father from
the family more than the presence of daughters, and this effect tends
to be stronger among wealthy families.

6. Beautiful people have more daughters

It is commonly believed that whether parents conceive a boy or a girl
is up to random chance. Close, but not quite; it is largely up to
chance. The normal sex ratio at birth is 105 boys for every 100 girls.
But the sex ratio varies slightly in different circumstances and for
different families. There are factors that subtly influence the sex of
an offspring.

One of the most celebrated principles in evolutionary biology, the
Trivers-Willard hypothesis, states that wealthy parents of high status
have more sons, while poor parents of low status have more daughters.
This is because children generally inherit the wealth and social
status of their parents. Throughout history, sons from wealthy
families who would themselves become wealthy could expect to have a
large number of wives, mistresses and concubines, and produce dozens
or hundreds of children, whereas their equally wealthy sisters can
have only so many children. So natural selection designs parents to
have biased sex ratio at birth depending upon their economic
circumstances-more boys if they are wealthy, more girls if they are
poor. (The biological mechanism by which this occurs is not yet
understood.)

This hypothesis has been documented around the globe. American
presidents, vice presidents, and cabinet secretaries have more sons
than daughters. Poor Mukogodo herders in East Africa have more
daughters than sons. Church parish records from the 17th and 18th
centuries show that wealthy landowners in Leezen, Germany, had more
sons than daughters, while farm laborers and tradesmen without
property had more daughters than sons. In a survey of respondents from
46 nations, wealthy individuals are more likely to indicate a
preference for sons if they could only have one child, whereas less
wealthy individuals are more likely to indicate a preference for
daughters.

The generalized Trivers-Willard hypothesis goes beyond a family's
wealth and status: If parents have any traits that they can pass on to
their children and that are better for sons than for daughters, then
they will have more boys. Conversely, if parents have any traits that
they can pass on to their children and that are better for daughters,
they will have more girls.

Physical attractiveness, while a universally positive quality,
contributes even more to women's reproductive success than to men's.
The generalized hypothesis would therefore predict that physically
attractive parents should have more daughters than sons. Once again,
this is the case. Americans who are rated "very attractive" have a 56
percent chance of having a daughter for their first child, compared
with 48 percent for everyone else.

7. What Bill Gates and Paul McCartney have in common with criminals

For nearly a quarter of a century, criminologists have known about the
"age-crime curve." In every society at all historical times, the
tendency to commit crimes and other risk-taking behavior rapidly
increases in early adolescence, peaks in late adolescence and early
adulthood, rapidly decreases throughout the 20s and 30s, and levels
off in middle age.

This curve is not limited to crime. The same age profile characterizes
every quantifiable human behavior that is public (i.e., perceived by
many potential mates) and costly (i.e., not affordable by all sexual
competitors). The relationship between age and productivity among male
jazz musicians, male painters, male writers, and male scientists-which
might be called the "age-genius curve"-is essentially the same as the
age-crime curve. Their productivity-the expressions of their
genius-quickly peaks in early adulthood, and then equally quickly
declines throughout adulthood. The age-genius curve among their female
counterparts is much less pronounced; it does not peak or vary as much
as a function of age.

Paul McCartney has not written a hit song in years, and now spends
much of his time painting. Bill Gates is now a respectable businessman
and philanthropist, and is no longer a computer whiz kid. J.D.
Salinger now lives as a total recluse and has not published anything
in more than three decades. Orson Welles was a mere 26 when he wrote,
produced, directed, and starred in Citizen Kane.

A single theory can explain the productivity of both creative geniuses
and criminals over the life course: Both crime and genius are
expressions of young men's competitive desires, whose ultimate
function in the ancestral environment would have been to increase
reproductive success.

In the physical competition for mates, those who are competitive may
act violently toward their male rivals. Men who are less inclined
toward crime and violence may express their competitiveness through
their creative activities.

The cost of competition, however, rises dramatically when a man has
children, when his energies and resources are put to better use
protecting and investing in them. The birth of the first child usually
occurs several years after puberty because men need some time to
accumulate sufficient resources and attain sufficient status to
attract their first mate. There is therefore a gap of several years
between the rapid rise in the benefits of competition and similarly
rapid rise in its costs. Productivity rapidly declines in late
adulthood as the costs of competition rise and cancel its benefits.

These calculations have been performed by natural and sexual
selection, so to speak, which then equips male brains with a
psychological mechanism to incline them to be increasingly competitive
immediately after puberty and make them less competitive right after
the birth of their first child. Men simply do not feel like acting
violently, stealing, or conducting additional scientific experiments,
or they just want to settle down after the birth of their child but
they do not know exactly why.

The similarity between Bill Gates, Paul McCartney, and criminals-in
fact, among all men throughout evolutionary history-points to an
important concept in evolutionary biology: female choice.

Women often say no to men. Men have had to conquer foreign lands, win
battles and wars, compose symphonies, author books, write sonnets,
paint cathedral ceilings, make scientific discoveries, play in rock
bands, and write new computer software in order to impress women so
that they will agree to have sex with them. Men have built (and
destroyed) civilization in order to impress women, so that they might
say yes.

Eph
01-01-2009, 11:46 AM
8. The midlife crisis is a myth-sort of

Many believe that men go through a midlife crisis when they are in
middle age. Not quite. Many middle-aged men do go through midlife
crises, but it's not because they are middle-aged. It's because their
wives are. From the evolutionary psychological perspective, a man's
midlife crisis is precipitated by his wife's imminent menopause and
end of her reproductive career, and thus his renewed need to attract
younger women. Accordingly, a 50-year-old man married to a 25-year-old
woman would not go through a midlife crisis, while a 25-year-old man
married to a 50-year-old woman would, just like a more typical
50-year-old man married to a 50-year-old woman. It's not his midlife
that matters; it's hers. When he buys a shiny-red sports car, he's not
trying to regain his youth; he's trying to attract young women to
replace his menopausal wife by trumpeting his flash and cash.

9. It's natural for politicians to risk everything for an affair (but
only if they're male)

On the morning of January 21, 1998, as Americans woke up to the
stunning allegation that President Bill Clinton had had an affair with
a 24-year-old White House intern, Darwinian historian Laura L. Betzig
thought, "I told you so." Betzig points out that while powerful men
throughout Western history have married monogamously (only one legal
wife at a time), they have always mated polygynously (they had lovers,
concubines, and female slaves). With their wives, they produced
legitimate heirs; with the others, they produced *******s. Genes make
no distinction between the two categories of children.

As a result, powerful men of high status throughout human history
attained very high reproductive success, leaving a large number of
offspring (legitimate and otherwise), while countless poor men died
mateless and childless. Moulay Ismail the Bloodthirsty, the last
Sharifian emperor of Morocco, stands out quantitatively, having left
more offspring-1,042-than anyone else on record, but he was by no
means qualitatively different from other powerful men, like Bill
Clinton.

The question many asked in 1998-"Why on earth would the most powerful
man in the world jeopardize his job for an affair with a young
woman?"-is, from a Darwinian perspective, a silly one. Betzig's answer
would be: "Why not?" Men strive to attain political power, consciously
or unconsciously, in order to have reproductive access to a larger
number of women. Reproductive access to women is the goal, political
office but one means. To ask why the President of the United States
would have a sexual encounter with a young woman is like asking why
someone who worked very hard to earn a large sum of money would then
spend it.

What distinguishes Bill Clinton is not that he had extramarital
affairs while in office-others have, more will; it would be a
Darwinian puzzle if they did not-what distinguishes him is the fact
that he got caught.

10. Men sexually harass women because they are not sexist

An unfortunate consequence of the ever-growing number of women joining
the labor force and working side by side with men is the increasing
number of sexual harassment cases. Why must sexual harassment be a
necessary consequence of the sexual integration of the workplace?

Psychologist Kingsley R. Browne identifies two types of sexual
harassment cases: the quid pro quo ("You must sleep with me if you
want to keep your job or be promoted") and the "hostile environment"
(the workplace is deemed too sexualized for workers to feel safe and
comfortable). While feminists and social scientists tend to explain
sexual harassment in terms of "patriarchy" and other ideologies,
Browne locates the ultimate cause of both types of sexual harassment
in sex differences in mating strategies.

Studies demonstrate unequivocally that men are far more interested in
short-term casual sex than women. In one now-classic study, 75 percent
of undergraduate men approached by an attractive female stranger
agreed to have sex with her; none of the women approached by an
attractive male stranger did. Many men who would not date the stranger
nonetheless agreed to have sex with her.

The quid pro quo types of harassment are manifestations of men's
greater desire for short-term casual sex and their willingness to use
any available means to achieve that goal. Feminists often claim that
sexual harassment is "not about sex but about power;" Browne contends
it is both-men using power to get sex. "To say that it is only about
power makes no more sense than saying that bank robbery is only about
guns, not about money."

Sexual harassment cases of the hostile-environment variety result from
sex differences in what men and women perceive as "overly sexual" or
"hostile" behavior. Many women legitimately complain that they have
been subjected to abusive, intimidating, and degrading treatment by
their male coworkers. Browne points out that long before women entered
the labor force, men subjected each other to such abusive,
intimidating, and degrading treatment.

Abuse, intimidation, and degradation are all part of men's repertoire
of tactics employed in competitive situations. In other words, men are
not treating women differently from men-the definition of
discrimination, under which sexual harassment legally falls-but the
opposite: Men harass women precisely because they are not
discriminating between men and women.

This content is Copyright Sussex Publishers, LLC. 2006. This content
is intended for personal use [...]

Frodo Baggins
01-01-2009, 12:04 PM
Hey Miss me :D My Two Cents on this> Should'nt we talk about men an thier beerbellys??? WAnts to know Why Men Have Beer bellys??? ;)

Eph
01-01-2009, 12:04 PM
Men aren't enlightened as a whole and drink beer rather than nice red wines.

peter
01-01-2009, 01:11 PM
Hey Miss me :D My Two Cents on this> Should'nt we talk about men an thier beerbellys??? WAnts to know Why Men Have Beer bellys??? ;)

So that we'll have someplace to put our beers of course!

lilycolefan
01-01-2009, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the post. It was an interesting read. I liked this explanation especially.

I don't think that is true. I think the second hypothesis sounds more true. A lot of younger women have saggy breasts. Large breasts=nursing children.

AndrewD
01-01-2009, 02:36 PM
title says all

No, it doesn't. What 'says it all' is that so many people answered without having the vaguest clue whether women in Greek mythology were or weren't depicted as 'fat'.

There is no mention in Greek mythology of all women being any particular body shape. Certain women might have been credited with specific physiques that were central to their role but that's about it. NONE of them were classified as fat and the majority of them were only described in terms of their beauty - not their physique. When that did happen the women (Aphrodite, Hera, Persephone, Heba, Eurynome) were the epitome of physical perfection and that sure as hell doesn't mean 'fat'.

If you're talking about classical Greek art and its depiction of female figures in mythology that's a different topic altogether.

dave333
01-01-2009, 07:11 PM
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Maybe more than a little bit. Eww, I think I'm going back to bed until I can recover from this, absolutely the grossest concept ever presented on this forum, even putting me in the same sentence with that patho liar troll. Just eww.


We probably owe you an apology, that joke was probably too crude.

^^^^
I think we basically assumed he meant their depiction, or at least how others have depicted them in history (Botticelli)

10sfreak
01-01-2009, 07:17 PM
Don't buy this conservative-apologist crap. Conservatives always retreat to Darwin when confronted by these issues, and then reemerge as "creationists" later. Many cases of sexual harrassment are not about sex - it involves calling women "itches" or asking them to fetch coffee. If you have had mandatory sexual harrassment training as I have (mandated for managers in large corporations by both federal and state statutes), you will see that a large number of the real-life legal cases studied consist of publicly insulting women and degrading them, and just trying to force them to quit. The bosses often had no interest in the women physically. The non-quid-pro-quo cases (hostile environment) often consisted of men angry that a woman was employed in a construction company or blue-collar job which they thought only men should be allowed to do. It had nothing to do any kind of attraction to the woman.
And the Supreme Court case where a guy was harassed on an oil rig was judged as a valid sexual harrassment case and sent back to the lower courts - but the guys were not gay. They just picked on this guy who they felt could be gay and kept threatening him. None of them had any sexual interest in him. So yes, men have treated men badly for centuries, but often not for sexual reasons. The arguments of this writer seems to be of the kind "racial discrimination does not exist because people have been discriminating against each other for ever on other grounds" An argument carefully designed to make conservatives feel good, and nothing else.
Conservatives engaging in sexual harassment? Oh, you mean conservatives like bill clinton? ted kennedy?

lovecr717
01-01-2009, 08:01 PM
DONT mean to spoil the fun but how do you know women in greek mythology are fat?

Dedans Penthouse
01-01-2009, 08:35 PM
DONT mean to spoil the fun but how do you know women in greek mythology are fat?It's a myth.


There are 'trim' woman who give bad trim and zaftig woman who are fabulously lustful lovers.

No need to get bent outta shape over woman, fat or otherwise. Just slap their thigh...and ride the wave in :-) ........or, if you wanna 'shake 'n bake, then roll 'em in flour and aim for the gray spot....:cool:

woman are yum, period; i especially don't get the tomes on this thread

SFrazeur
01-01-2009, 08:40 PM
Why are women in Greek mythology fat?

Because Jenny Craig hadn't opened yet and shipping was too slow for Nutrisystem.

-SF

RestockingTues
01-01-2009, 08:48 PM
Hey Miss me :D My Two Cents on this> Should'nt we talk about men an thier beerbellys??? WAnts to know Why Men Have Beer bellys??? ;)

Speaking of beer bellies... Nalbandian anyone?

"Eat a Goat to Beat the Goat" still cracks me up :lol:

CanadianChic
01-01-2009, 08:56 PM
It's a myth.


There are 'trim' woman who give bad trim and zaftig woman who are fabulously lustful lovers.

No need to get bent outta shape over woman, fat or otherwise. Just slap their thigh...and ride the wave in :-) ........or, if you wanna 'shake 'n bake, then roll 'em in flour and aim for the gray spot....:cool:

woman are yum, period; i especially don't get the tomes on this thread

Anyone else utters these comments and I would wince with revulsion, yet, Dedan has a way of saying them in the most flattering, appreciative manner. What a gent! ;)

Dedans Penthouse
01-02-2009, 05:58 AM
Anyone else utters these comments and I would wince with revulsion, yet, Dedan has a way of saying them in the most flattering, appreciative manner. What a gent! ;)While I am 'appreciative' of your kind words (and not to sound school marm-ish), the word 'flattery' (from to flatter) actually implies deceit; i.e. dishonest praise which we both know was not the case here......and definitely not from a person who--however ineloquently--describes nevertheless, woman as "yummy" ..... "appreciative" is always the intended sentiment and always where the bring-me-to-my-knees 'distaff'side of life is concerned - smile ....

sureshs
01-02-2009, 06:45 AM
Conservatives engaging in sexual harassment? Oh, you mean conservatives like bill clinton? ted kennedy?

No, the ones who have been married N times, yet preach morality to others.

sureshs
01-02-2009, 06:49 AM
I saw on a TV program that only 1/3 rd of the world's population is monogamous. I have totally wasted my life. They were showing this remote Chinese village where all the women and men have a sort of shared communal relationship.

meowmix
01-02-2009, 07:44 AM
By monogamous, do you mean only ever having one partner, or only having one wife at a time? Because if we're talking the first... then I'd say less than 2% of the world's population fit that...

sureshs
01-02-2009, 08:05 AM
By monogamous, do you mean only ever having one partner, or only having one wife at a time? Because if we're talking the first... then I'd say less than 2% of the world's population fit that...

I think they meant the second. The first is called "serial monogamy." There also I have wasted my life.

BTW, regarding the article about polygamy in Islam, from what I have read, it originated in the Middle East because the tribal wars had reduced the number of men, and the women were protected better if they were married to someone, due to war honor rules. Same with the decree of a widow marrying her husband's brother. As happens, practices which probably made sense in the day appear strange now. Other examples are child marriage (people didn't go to formal school and instead went into the family occupation, life expectencies were shorter, infant mortalities were higher, and so the sooner a couple settled down, the better) and female dowry (girls did not inherit wealth, so they were parceled off with their share at the time of marriage - but sons didn't exactly enjoy life because they were obliged to take care of aged parents in exchange for inheritance - no soc sec, 401k or medicare in those days). Even the issue of child labor is not that clear cut - people have suggested that child labor in the farms and home was a staple of 19th century America - schools closed early so that children could work. Today these ideas are repulsive.