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Eph
01-02-2009, 12:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh1-mAwqgBA

Not really that fluid, in my opinion, and I keep putting my head down. I didn't feel well today.

Your thoughts?

beckham
01-02-2009, 12:43 PM
yes, there is poor fluidity...you need to get your racquet in the backscratch position, and explode forward into the serve.

check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tuHYoErQg&feature=related

if you pause it at :08, you see federer in the backscratch position, and then he explodes into the serve.

LeeD
01-02-2009, 12:59 PM
Almost impossible to hit a correct form serve without at least a year of trained tennis under your belt.
First, go to eastern backhand grip.
Force your feet to stay behind the basline until your racket is above your head, then explode forwards.
You're big and strong, hopefully.
Swing maybe 30 mph faster.
Pronate/twist your right arm leading with the thumb to create the racket head speed, but your arm must still move faster.
Accuracy and consistency requires less body and leg movements.
You'll get it.
If I practiced serves on a racketball court, the ball would richocet back past me well before the followthru, then bounce around crazily for 3 seconds.

jasoncho92
01-02-2009, 05:39 PM
Almost impossible to hit a correct form serve without at least a year of trained tennis under your belt.
First, go to eastern backhand grip.
Force your feet to stay behind the basline until your racket is above your head, then explode forwards.
You're big and strong, hopefully.
Swing maybe 30 mph faster.
Pronate/twist your right arm leading with the thumb to create the racket head speed, but your arm must still move faster.
Accuracy and consistency requires less body and leg movements.
You'll get it.
If I practiced serves on a racketball court, the ball would richocet back past me well before the followthru, then bounce around crazily for 3 seconds.
Why the eastern backhand grip? Ive always thought that continental is easier for beginners to serve with.

m27
01-02-2009, 05:46 PM
Almost impossible to hit a correct form serve without at least a year of trained tennis under your belt.
First, go to eastern backhand grip.
Force your feet to stay behind the basline until your racket is above your head, then explode forwards.

good god thats bad advice
1) stay with continental. eastern backhand is used by people who can't get topspin on their kick serve because it forces them to pronate.
2) your leg drive should be pretty much complete before your elbow - let alone your racquet - goes above your head

edit: and I really disagree with your suggestion that you need a year of lessons to hit a proper serve, but yes most people don't put enough time/thought into tennis to improve quickly.

LeeD
01-02-2009, 05:52 PM
Continental is nice for hitting EVERY shot from just that one grip.
We're talking hitting fast serves here, so why handicap yourself with a universal, do it all, do nothing well grip. OK, it volleys just peachy.
Hit some first serves as fast as you can. Unless you're IvoKarlovic height, only maybe half actually go in. The rest hit the net or go long.
Talking your fastest first serves, right?
So, add a little backhand to your Continental. Swing thru 100 to get the pronation, ball toss, and timing correct.
Now hit it fast as you can. Notice now you produce a deadball forward spin, like a lazy topspin, like a knuckleball. The ball drops in an arc, but it's going just as fast.
That gives you more margin for error, so you can actually swing FASTER, and the ball still goes in 50%.
Now if you're swinging faster, still hitting flat, and it goes in the same, you have improved pace without losing consistency.
Isn't that what you want?

LeeD
01-02-2009, 05:57 PM
Better take a gander at Roddick's, Sampras's, especially Edberg's service grips.
Don't believe?
Sure, what would I know.
But you can try this...... hold your grip, place racket in striking position for first serve. Now switch it SLIGHTLY towards Easternbackhand grip. Notice the racket face points downward SLIGHTLY.
That is the basis for a farther back toss, like just over your head, not forwards of your head, a faster swing, and with pronation, just as flat a shot.
You swing faster, you add a touch of forward spin, your serve goes faster, and it goes in because the forward spin adds a touch of arc to a 130mph ball.
I watched and talked to ColinDibley. His ball goes fast.
Who did you talk to?

Djokovicfan4life
01-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Eph, first of all, ignore the eastern backhand grip advice. That is truly an idiotic thing to suggest for a flat serve unless the player is much more advanced.

In all of your serving videos that I've seen, you seem to "fall" into your serve, so to speak. You are essentially doing the exact opposite of what you're supposed to be doing, because you lose all of the explosiveness that you could be supplying with your legs, shoulder rotation, etc. You also decrease your margin for error because you're not making contact at the highest possible contact point. So in the end you have a slower serve with less margin for error.

It's going to be a very tough habit to break, but you're going to have to rebuild your serve pretty much from scratch, IMO. Usually it is not a good idea to teach players to jump into their serve, but in your case it may be necessary since this falling motion is so ingrained in your muscle memory. You want to time this "jump" as you begin your forward swing. So as you start to swing forward your knees should start to explode up into the ball.

You should be very careful with all of this "back scratch" advice as well. A lot of players absolutely ruin their serves by trying to do this because they get into this position too quickly and by doing so they lose the explosive motion of "throwing" the racquet into the ball, so to speak. What you need to focus on to achieve the correct racquet drop is your trophy pose. After tossing the ball your tossing arm should extend straight up towards the sky, and the upper arm and forearm of your hitting arm should form a 90 degree angle. Some people call this the "L" position. I just recently recorded my serve and I can tell you that I get into the racquet drop every time without even thinking about it. It's not that I have a great serve or that I'm a high level player, it simply happens naturally as a result of a good trophy pose.

Hope this helps,

Matt

LeeD
01-02-2009, 06:30 PM
Yeah, guys, it's always a great idea to ignore advice from a 5'11" x 145 lbs'er who placed second in the amateur class at GoldenGatePark's '77 speed serve contest. 4 out of 7 allowed serves over 128, ONE at 129.4 mph.
And an amateur who strung sets of rackets for MikeCahill (#1, USC), RaulRameriz, DickStockton, and watched as our head stringer strung up ColinDibley's racket specially for the contest as Dibley poked around and asked stupid beer questions.
What could I possibly know about service speed and what to do to attain it?

Djokovicfan4life
01-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Yeah, guys, it's always a great idea to ignore advice from a 5'11" x 145 lbs'er who placed second in the amateur class at GoldenGatePark's '77 speed serve contest. 4 out of 7 allowed serves over 128, ONE at 129.4 mph.
And an amateur who strung sets of rackets for MikeCahill (#1, USC), RaulRameriz, DickStockton, and watched as our head stringer strung up ColinDibley's racket specially for the contest as Dibley poked around and asked stupid beer questions.
What could I possibly know about service speed and what to do to attain it?

Got a video to back any of this up? Anyone can talk a big game on the internet, you know. You haven't said anything that has led me to believe that you have any clue what you are talking about. You babble on and on constantly about things like how spin increases the speed of your serve, haha.

m27
01-02-2009, 06:44 PM
Got a video to back any of this up? Anyone can talk a big game on the internet, you know. You haven't said anything that has led me to believe that you have any clue what you are talking about. You babble on and on constantly about things like how spin increases the speed of your serve, haha.

I don't think he is necessarily saying that HE can serve super fast (although I would assume he can throw up some respectable 100+ numbers with all that technique ;)).

He didn't say spin increases the speed of the serve, he said that a slight eastern backhand grip allows you to swing more freely because it naturally puts more spin on the serve (thereby allowing you to add pace while retaining consistency without altering swing path as much as for continental). This is similar to how a semiwestern grip allows you to swing faster than an eastern grip and spin it in instead of overhitting (gross oversimplification, but we are assuming all things being equal).

for the record, roddick uses a continental and all three of the servers you mentioned (well, pretty much every big server ever) delays the swing until their leg drive is almost complete. roddick - ie, the fastest server ever - does this more than anyone.

shell
01-02-2009, 06:46 PM
Yeah, guys, it's always a great idea to ignore advice from a 5'11" x 145 lbs'er who placed second in the amateur class at GoldenGatePark's '77 speed serve contest. 4 out of 7 allowed serves over 128, ONE at 129.4 mph.
And an amateur who strung sets of rackets for MikeCahill (#1, USC), RaulRameriz, DickStockton, and watched as our head stringer strung up ColinDibley's racket specially for the contest as Dibley poked around and asked stupid beer questions.
What could I possibly know about service speed and what to do to attain it?

I have no problem with your serve abilities, but when I see this OPs serve, I do not think he needs to be focusing on serve speed. If fact, unless he makes some rather large and difficult technical changes, he won't need to worry about that for a while. Why all the focus on speed? Pace comes with technical proficiency, and then you can focus on a few extra MPH.

Serves are built from the ground up, and the end result of a well constructed serve is consistency, placement and pace. Really, in that order.

ssjkyle31
01-02-2009, 06:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh1-mAwqgBA

Not really that fluid, in my opinion, and I keep putting my head down. I didn't feel well today.

Your thoughts?
Not the best, but is it a consistent serve that won't cause you injury. If it is more power to you:).

LeeD
01-02-2009, 06:56 PM
Well of course, degrees of continental, we're talking, right?
Every beginner starts serving with eastern forehands, and make the ball go pretty fast.
Usually, after the second year, he switches to continental, and it goes fast with less arm speed.
When that peaks, and you see how the really fast servers strike the ball, you soon figure it's not pure flat, side, or under.
That "POP" is from loosewrist for sure, but somewhat aligned with a hair of overspin along with basically a really flat struck ball.
Don't believe it if you want. I don't care if you're stuck forever serving under 120mph, or 100.
We're talking about trying to get these 16 year olds to have a chance at becoming PRO level here, and we need the advice that's proven in the PRO ranks.
Not what some highschool coach who didn't play tennis advises.
Or anyone who didn't serve much over 120.
Consider.... you have the time, you control the toss, you control exactly your timing and swing speed. Right? So why use a grip that is OK for everything!
Now if you're following into the net, it's nice to keep the same grip.
Modern tennis is topspin. And topspin usually requires Western grips. Since you can't serve with your western fore or backhand, just adjusted it a little to.......backhand side of continental, which where eastern backhand side of continental exactly lies !!
From the sidelines, watch some first serve impact zones. Top pros who serve fast, usually from centerline of head BACK. You can't strike pure continental off the back half of your head.
Now look at the serving arm angle. It's BEHIND the racket head. Continental would mean it's aligned with the racket head.
But it's OK, I'm full of it, don't know from whence I speakest, and actually am right handed.

Jackie T. Stephens
01-02-2009, 07:05 PM
Wow.. your using to much arm and ducking as you lean in, move your back foot forward as you serve and toss the ball more out in front.

shell
01-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Well of course, degrees of continental, we're talking, right?
Every beginner starts serving with eastern forehands, and make the ball go pretty fast.
Usually, after the second year, he switches to continental, and it goes fast with less arm speed.
When that peaks, and you see how the really fast servers strike the ball, you soon figure it's not pure flat, side, or under.
That "POP" is from loosewrist for sure, but somewhat aligned with a hair of overspin along with basically a really flat struck ball.
Don't believe it if you want. I don't care if you're stuck forever serving under 120mph, or 100.
We're talking about trying to get these 16 year olds to have a chance at becoming PRO level here, and we need the advice that's proven in the PRO ranks.
Not what some highschool coach who didn't play tennis advises.
Or anyone who didn't serve much over 120.
Consider.... you have the time, you control the toss, you control exactly your timing and swing speed. Right? So why use a grip that is OK for everything!
Now if you're following into the net, it's nice to keep the same grip.
Modern tennis is topspin. And topspin usually requires Western grips. Since you can't serve with your western fore or backhand, just adjusted it a little to.......backhand side of continental, which where eastern backhand side of continental exactly lies !!
From the sidelines, watch some first serve impact zones. Top pros who serve fast, usually from centerline of head BACK. You can't strike pure continental off the back half of your head.
Now look at the serving arm angle. It's BEHIND the racket head. Continental would mean it's aligned with the racket head.
But it's OK, I'm full of it, don't know from whence I speakest, and actually am right handed.

I don't think the OP is 16 and I don't think he is going to turn pro. So shouldn't we start with some basics?

Jackie T. Stephens
01-02-2009, 07:20 PM
I don't think the OP is 16 and I don't think he is going to turn pro. So shouldn't we start with some basics?

LOL actually your right, he just wants to improve, not become pro guys..

tennisfreak15347
01-02-2009, 07:43 PM
if your serves keep following into the net, you fix your form, not change your grip...


[QUOTE=LeeD;2970106] We're talking about trying to get these 16 year olds to have a chance at becoming PRO level here, and we need the advice that's proven in the PRO ranks.
Not what some highschool coach who didn't play tennis advises.
Or anyone who didn't serve much over 120.
Modern tennis is topspin. And topspin usually requires Western grips.


topspin requires western grips? not really... and I don't think one internet forum would really change a 16 year old into a pro tennis player.

Jackie T. Stephens
01-02-2009, 07:47 PM
if your serves keep following into the net, you fix your form, not change your grip...




topspin requires western grips? not really... and I don't think one internet forum would really change a 16 year old into a pro tennis player.

You can get good topspin from an estern and alot from a Semi-Western.

Ballinbob
01-02-2009, 08:14 PM
Got a video to back any of this up? Anyone can talk a big game on the internet, you know. You haven't said anything that has led me to believe that you have any clue what you are talking about. You babble on and on constantly about things like how spin increases the speed of your serve, haha.

I don't know dude, the guy just thinks he's all that. I said I run a 100m dash in 11.77 seconds (this will get you on just about any varsity HS track team), then he feels the need to go and tell me I'm SLOW because he ran a 4.5 second 40 yard dash (that is DAMN fast, fastest in the world is around 4.2, that time, if he could run that fast for 100m he would get a medal in the olympics) in his "prime". And then I tell him my serve the best part of my game and that I've been working really hard on it and I want comments on it, and then he goes "is your flat serve 120mph and do you have a 85mph kick serve"?????? I tell him its not even close to that, and he then says that I'll never be a pro (lol and im going for just college tennis) because I can't hit that. Basically he takes something I've been working hard on and tells me it sucks b/c its not 120mph! He went and put me down on things that I take great pride in (athleticism and serve) because its not up to his standards. Also, I have no idea why he's saying use an eastern backhand grip. On a kick serve maybe, but a flat serve? And for a beginner who just wants to get better? Maybe he does have good advice, but he sure sucks at expressing it. And how can you possible not turn pro if you have a 4.5second 40 yard dash and a 130mph lefty serve. LeeD, this doesn't make sense! If I could run a 4.5 second 40 in HIGHSCHOOl then I wouldn't even bother with tennis!!!

So let me ask all of TW, how many of you could hit a 120mph serve and a 85mph kick serve at 15? If not, we're all underachievers and we all suck.

edit-LeeD this was a bit harsh but that's how I feel and am sure others have been wanting to say this. Something is funny here.... Also, I appreciate your kind words in my thread saying I have potential. Seems your a nice guy who maybe just talks too much about himself. Believe me ask anyone here, I talk a hell of alot about myself and it gets me in trouble sometimes. Like my "famously consistent" volleys lol.. Maybe if you just post a video of yourself running a 4.5 40yd dash or hitting a 120mph serve? I'm sure you would have vidded yourself doing those things, those are huge accomplishments. You kinda have to post a vid when you talk too much, I did lol. I talked about my serve and volleys and I had to post them to prove myself (working on the volleys vid). And I'm sure someones going to doubt me on my 100m time sooner or later and when track season comes I'll be happy to vid that...however I'm pretty sure if you look at my build/legs you'll see that I'm not kidding about this:) Also please don't get me wrong here, i don't go and put down people on the internet for fun lol, in fact your the first person ive said this type of thing too. I just want to make sure the advice your giving is legit thats all....

edit again-Okay I feel really bad now for typing this, is this too harsh? Maybe I owe the guy an apology, i feel like a mean person for saying this:cry:

shell
01-02-2009, 09:01 PM
No, you are not a mean person for saying all that.

Forums bring about a strange mix of people. Most just want to express themselves. It's a mixed bag on how well they do that.

I don't think Lee is a bad person, just set on a couple of issues that may or may not apply to different people.

As in all threads, take what you can and will from all instruction/critique and ignore the things that don't work for you.

Ballinbob
01-02-2009, 09:08 PM
No, you are not a mean person for saying all that.

Forums bring about a strange mix of people. Most just want to express themselves. It's a mixed bag on how well they do that.

I don't think Lee is a bad person, just set on a couple of issues that may or may not apply to different people.

As in all threads, take what you can and will from all instruction/critique and ignore the things that don't work for you.

I don't think Lee's a bad person either, but I think the key point in what you said was take what you can and ignore the stuff that doesn't work.

And hey thanks for posting in that emancipating my parents thread, that was a nice comment. I didn't want to reply b/c I kinda wanted the thread to die...was a dumb thread and I should have used my head more. I got some nasty comments in that thread but they got their point across. Okay that's all im gunna say I'm not going to go off topic

Eph
01-02-2009, 11:50 PM
LOL actually your right, he just wants to improve, not become pro guys..

I just want to do well at alumni nights at Harvard. ;p Not beat all of them; just some of them since some went or were pros.


Anyways, that wasn't the best video of me - I just got out of the hospital (remember how I said I wasn't feeling well?). I will try to post a better video soon with me going into the ball rather than down.

LeeD
01-03-2009, 10:32 AM
Hey guys....
When you post vids of yourself and ask for critiques, you get critiques, NOT pats on the head.
If you show a vid of Fed and ask us to critique, I'd say...."wow, nice" and that's it.
You guys are 3.5's right now.
Most of you have strokes to make 4.5.
Are you satisfied with that?
You serve at 100mph. Are you satisfied with that?
You want to wait a couple years or whatever before you improve your serve. Guess what? By then it's too late. You improve your serve NOW!
Vids. I played OK back in 1978.
The best football coach doesn't always play football well.
The best tennis coach's don't have to be current players.
The best gynastic coach doesn't even DO gymnastics!
Get it?
You guys with your "I"m fast enough, I hit hard enough, I"m tall enough" are just going to stay the same!
You guys with your "how can I improve, how can I hit harder, how can I get more consistent" are gonna beat the pants off those content with their game.
And who cares what I did? All my advice is to get YOU to be better. Then you ask how I know, so I answer. And you doubt my answers.
Since YOU know it all, maybe you should not ask for advice !!!!:confused::confused::confused::confused:

LeeD
01-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Oh, and one more, but very important thing.
If you want to hit correctly, use the form used by the best players.
Why adopt your own dumb strokes, then have to CHANGE to the correct strokes.
Think about that! If you want to pitch, you look at the top players, not some 4 year old kid learning to throw......right?
You always look at the best, try to emulate, and of course throw in some of your own twists and turns.
You don't imitate the worst!
So why hit serves with the wrong grip?
You guys say continental on serves. Cont is unstable and hard to duplicate.
Your arm is aligned with the racket, so mistakes happen both late and early.
Eastern backhand side of continental forces your racehead thru earlier than your arm, so it's margin of error is cut in half.
Your choice, your future, PLEASE PLEASE desregard what I say if you want.
Obviously, you think you already know everything.

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 10:50 AM
LeeD like I said that was a bit harsh and I'm sorry. And I think everyone in this section is trying to improve, otherwise we wouldn't take the time to video ourselves and post it for help. We all want to improve, and I for one want to make it to a DII college. I'm still far off, but I'm confident if I keep up my hard work and keep fit then I have a chance. And im teling you right now I'm not happy where I am now in track neither in tennis and I want to get better. And I see your point with working hard during your teen years because we are peaking in our physical ability, that makes perfect sense. I appreciate all the advice you've been really encouraging to everyone. And if I knew everything, why would I have bothered with posting all the threads asking for help? I'm just saying some of your advice doesn't quite make sense like how spin adds speed to the ball and how an eastern backhand grip is best for flat serves.

I can understand an eastern backhand for kick serves, but why flat serves? All the great servers use a continental for flat servers. you mentioned edberg earlier, but he hit all kick serves. Usually the eastern backhand grip gets you more spin at the cost of power, and the continental is a good all around grip. If I want to hit a safe spin serve, I use the eastern backhand.

LeeD
01-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Talking just flat serves with audible "POP" that makes EVERYONE around the courts stop and stare.....
Continental lines up the racket with your arm at moment of service impact. If you're late, not only does the ball go out, but it's hit with slight underspin. If you're early pronating, meaning your snap is ahead of the ball, you end up hitting down into the net with a hair of overspin.
Now rotate that racket maybe 3-5 degrees towards EasternBackhand. When you swing to hit a flat serve, you have to pronate another 3-5 degrees, right? That's a bit more rackethead speed.
So you get more racket speed.
With the racket rotated to the new grip, you also get a slight forward spin on your FLAT serves, much like a knuckleball, it's barely rotating forwards.
The ball drops faster, bounces HIGHER, and goes in more often!
Don't believe?
OK, try the same thing but rotate your racket towards the Easternforehand side. What do you get? You get LESS rackethead speed, more underspin, and a flatter trajectory.
Now which serve do you think works better?
Now I did'nt advocate going to full Eastern backhand. That seems too radical for anyone who's not double jointed.
I don't care what anyone says, I say the earth is round and black is the mixture of all colors !!!@!

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 12:15 PM
lol ok, ill try it out sometime. No idea if it will work, but ill try it

Farz77
01-03-2009, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=beckham;2969289]yes, there is poor fluidity...you need to get your racquet in the backscratch position, and explode forward into the serve.QUOTE]

Incorrect.
The thing that poped right out was the fact that you were sending that energy FOWARD. On the serve, you must load the energy in your legs and explode UPWARDS to contact. What I saw from this video was that you were falling into the serve. You lost dynamic balance. Sure your wind-up is not natural and your backscrath isn't ideal but you will get greater power, more consistency and better accuracy by improving your balance and not dropping that head foward. The head leads the body. It is the heaviest part of the body so in this vid your head is moving foward so your body is following it. In your video, you are not on a tennis court so we cannot see where the balls land, go long or in the net. But I would bet a lot on the fact that you hit a majority of your serves into the net. Not true? Anyway, good luck, and let me know if you need any more info.

Djokovicfan4life
01-03-2009, 12:30 PM
Hey guys....
When you post vids of yourself and ask for critiques, you get critiques, NOT pats on the head.
If you show a vid of Fed and ask us to critique, I'd say...."wow, nice" and that's it.
You guys are 3.5's right now.
Most of you have strokes to make 4.5.
Are you satisfied with that?
You serve at 100mph. Are you satisfied with that?
You want to wait a couple years or whatever before you improve your serve. Guess what? By then it's too late. You improve your serve NOW!
Vids. I played OK back in 1978.
The best football coach doesn't always play football well.
The best tennis coach's don't have to be current players.
The best gynastic coach doesn't even DO gymnastics!
Get it?
You guys with your "I"m fast enough, I hit hard enough, I"m tall enough" are just going to stay the same!
You guys with your "how can I improve, how can I hit harder, how can I get more consistent" are gonna beat the pants off those content with their game.
And who cares what I did? All my advice is to get YOU to be better. Then you ask how I know, so I answer. And you doubt my answers.
Since YOU know it all, maybe you should not ask for advice !!!!:confused::confused::confused::confused:

We offered plenty of critiques. Did you read my original post? I pretty much said that the OP's serve was horrible and needed to be completely rebuilt from scratch. You're the one that came in with all this BS about eastern backhand grips and becoming a pro when this guy will obviously never achieve that level.

detroiter
01-03-2009, 02:55 PM
My advise is to take some lessons from your local club pro.

fluffy Beaver
01-03-2009, 03:02 PM
We offered plenty of critiques. Did you read my original post? I pretty much said that the OP's serve was horrible and needed to be completely rebuilt from scratch. You're the one that came in with all this BS about eastern backhand grips and becoming a pro when this guy will obviously never achieve that level.

Yep, I don't even think LeeD plays tennis, he has an average of ~23 post per day :confused:

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 03:05 PM
Yep, I don't even think LeeD plays tennis, he has an average of ~23 post per day :confused:

Lol that's what I've always to say but haven't got the courage to say it. And wow that's a hell of alot of posts.... My god dude...:shock:

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:02 PM
We offered plenty of critiques. Did you read my original post? I pretty much said that the OP's serve was horrible and needed to be completely rebuilt from scratch. You're the one that came in with all this BS about eastern backhand grips and becoming a pro when this guy will obviously never achieve that level.

Why is it obvious? Because I'm older than normal? Fat? Bad serve? Bad footwork?

Thanks.

LeeD
01-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah, I don't play.....
Today after 4 sets with my 4.0 peers, a Dad of a couple of girls who just came here from Arizona, where they went mid rounds in Girls 18's Nationals, asked me to hit with his daughters.
Of course, both had stronger forehands and backhands than any posted vids lately. Both also had real volleys. And both RAN from sideline to sideline.
Yes, both had girls serves.
But the reason for me going over there is practice for them against a real lefthanded slightly over 100 mph first serve and a wide spinning topspin second that hops just over shoulder level to the 6' tall younger girl.
Think about it.
My first serves go in and if nobody hits it, the ball ONE bounces against the backdrop around waist to bellybutton height.
My second serve, if hit deep, bounces about the same.....against the backdrop behind the court (yes, it's regulation) about waist high. That's SECOND serve.
I hit maybe 50 mixed serves to each girl, and by the end, they'd stand in against the second a return most of them.
They only blocked my first serves, lots in of course, they're Girls 18's who went to the Nationals and went several rounds, not guys claiming a 5.5 rating who never entered tournaments.

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Why is it obvious? Because I'm older than normal? Fat? Bad serve? Bad footwork?

Thanks.

Do you want to go pro?

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:15 PM
Do you want to go pro?

If I thought that I could, yes, I'd enjoy it. But I'd have to put off my other work for the time being which is a big sacrifice, so I need to know if it's actually possible.

And, FWIW, I'm 21 - older than most, but still not 26+ as most people think.

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:16 PM
>>Of course, both had stronger forehands and backhands than any posted vids lately<<

Lee, why do you say things like this?

LeeD
01-03-2009, 05:34 PM
OK, you know I've only been on here for maybe one week.
I've seen maybe 15 or so vids of guys hitting groundies.
These two girls I hit with, both entering satelite tournaments THIS year, hit harder, more consistent, and have better direction than any of the vids I've seen.
Why do I say this? Because it's true!
Are you guys able to go to Nationals on invitation (obviously not, you didn't get invited) at your age groups? WERE you at the junior nationals?
I truly believe a good Boys 16 will beat a top level Girls 18.
Are you claiming to be good Boys 16's?

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 05:35 PM
Eph sounds like your a nice guy and hopefully you wont take this the wrong way. I don't mean to put you down, but I honestly don't think you'll go pro even if you practiced 10hrs a day. You've got to remember though the vast,vast majority of us wont make it to the pro level anyway so don't sweat it. Also if you were going to go pro (again no offense), you would have a pretty solid game by this age. Just judging by your serves it seems like your inconsistent and have alot of work to do, but so do the rest of us. I don't know how fit you are either. Looks like your a strong guy but not sure about how quick you can move. What i wrote isn't meant to be an insult but just something to think about really. I wont go pro, and im working my as$ of to make it to a DII college for tennis. Keep at it though, you'll get up there! Like I said your tall and strong, your serve should be a weapon. Im sure once you develop a good motion/technique you'll be rocking those serves:)

Also, its hard to listen to LeeD. Some of his advice is legit, but if you don't much about tennis its hard to pick out whats true and whats not. If your going to be listening to him just make sure to double check it with the rest of us

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:35 PM
If you're asking me, no, considering I'm much older and done with university. I just don't understand why you are so standoffish.

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:41 PM
Eph sounds like your a nice guy and hopefully you wont take this the wrong way. I don't mean to put you down, but I honestly don't think you'll go pro even if you practiced 10hrs a day. You've got to remember though the vast,vast majority of us wont make it to the pro level anyway so don't sweat it. Also if you were going to go pro (again no offense), you would have a pretty solid game by this age. Just judging by your serves it seems like your inconsistent and have alot of work to do, but so do the rest of us. I don't know how fit you are either. Looks like your a strong guy but not sure about how quick you can move. What i wrote isn't meant to be an insult but just something to think about really. I wont go pro, and im working my as$ of to make it to a DII college for tennis. Keep at it though, you'll get up there! Like I said your tall and strong, your serve should be a weapon. Im sure once you develop a good motion/technique you'll be rocking those serves:)

Also, its hard to listen to LeeD. Some of his advice is legit, but if you don't much about tennis its hard to pick out whats true and whats not. If your going to be listening to him just make sure to double check it with the rest of us

I don't take it the wrong way - I just don't like hearing that things are impossible. I think very few things are. I know somebody who was in the 1'100s in the WTA rankings and the furthest he got was one ATP point and a spot on Harvard's team. Amazing player. Would love to be able to play with him, to be honest, that would make me happy.

As for my inconsistency and weight problems: I've had six knee surgeries and two neurosurgeries which is why I look like a whale. I'm working my *** off to lose the weight (Adn have made some good success), but yes, I know to be a truly great player I need to lose weight, become more flexible, get more consistent (the pain I am in now and lack of complete range of motion is why I am inconsistent).

I had a chance to become a baseball player, didn't want the lifestyle, probably because I wanted to go to university at a very young age, but now that I've accomplished that, I feel as if I need something else. Sorry, I don't mean to have a therapy session here, but trying to outline my goals.

FWIW, my tennis coach where I'm living right now (I am not in Manhattan FT) says my serve is good and I really need to work on topspin, so that gives you an idea of the type of instruction I get here. Sigh.

I wish you luck in your endeavours, and if you ever need academic help, let me know. I'm pretty good in that department. ; )

Chris

NB I don't take these things the wrong way - you articulate what you say well - if somebody were to get upset at what you wrote to me there, they would be severely misguided and angry with themselves, most likely.

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 05:54 PM
Oh man sorry about the surguries that sucks. And yeah if you don't have a good topspin serve then I would work on that ASAP. There's alot of information on this here already, but a tip that really helped me is to make sure to let the ball drop a little more than you would a flat serve to maximize the spin. This is because your hitting up on the ball with a topspin serve, so you want to leave a little room to do that. In a flat serve you swing right through it so you want to contact it at the highest point for the best angle down, but its different for a topspin serve.

And yeah look out for some academic questions from me, i'm smart but not like gifted or anything lol. I'll post quesitons in odds and ends when I have em.Also thats a good attitude to have that nothing is impossible. The thing is though, you don't want to set your goals too high because you might not reach them and you'll loose confidence in yourself. Maybe you could go pro, but just make gradual goals and small goals so you can get there step by step.

Don't take the pro thing to seriously though, barely anyone makes it there anyway. Like I said have reasonable goals. If I make it to a DII college, then I might think about going DI. If I make it to DI, then maybe pro. But for now I'm just focusing on DII.

Good luck though, just make sure you keep working at it!

Eph
01-03-2009, 05:58 PM
I meant in my forehands, but also in my serves. I need to get the proper serve down, first, though.

I'm not too caught up in it - just want to have fun no 1. The rest falls into place. I'm a determinist, so I know that what is suppose to happen will. No real choice in those matters.

Ballinbob
01-03-2009, 06:03 PM
Haha yeah having fun should be your number one priority. And I thought topspin serves, sorry. For a topspin groundstroke I just focus on swinging low-high. If you start getting all complex with it it becomes hard (for me at least). That's really all you need to know about topspin, low-high. Just practice practice practice and you'll get it. My backhand is flat and needs topspin too, and I'm working on it. I know how to generate the topspin but i need practice

Eph
01-03-2009, 07:47 PM
Haha yeah having fun should be your number one priority. And I thought topspin serves, sorry. For a topspin groundstroke I just focus on swinging low-high. If you start getting all complex with it it becomes hard (for me at least). That's really all you need to know about topspin, low-high. Just practice practice practice and you'll get it. My backhand is flat and needs topspin too, and I'm working on it. I know how to generate the topspin but i need practice

Yup. This game is a lot harder than people think.

RoddickAce
01-03-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't take it the wrong way - I just don't like hearing that things are impossible. I think very few things are. I know somebody who was in the 1'100s in the WTA rankings and the furthest he got was one ATP point and a spot on Harvard's team. Amazing player. Would love to be able to play with him, to be honest, that would make me happy.

As for my inconsistency and weight problems: I've had six knee surgeries and two neurosurgeries which is why I look like a whale. I'm working my *** off to lose the weight (Adn have made some good success), but yes, I know to be a truly great player I need to lose weight, become more flexible, get more consistent (the pain I am in now and lack of complete range of motion is why I am inconsistent).

I had a chance to become a baseball player, didn't want the lifestyle, probably because I wanted to go to university at a very young age, but now that I've accomplished that, I feel as if I need something else. Sorry, I don't mean to have a therapy session here, but trying to outline my goals.

FWIW, my tennis coach where I'm living right now (I am not in Manhattan FT) says my serve is good and I really need to work on topspin, so that gives you an idea of the type of instruction I get here. Sigh.

I wish you luck in your endeavours, and if you ever need academic help, let me know. I'm pretty good in that department. ; )

Chris

NB I don't take these things the wrong way - you articulate what you say well - if somebody were to get upset at what you wrote to me there, they would be severely misguided and angry with themselves, most likely.

Wow, I only had one knee surgery before, and I'm having a hard time getting back to where I was before. It must be really frustrating to have had 6 >_>. But don't worry, at 21 years old, you still have lots of time to make it to the higher levels of tennis, like 5.0 or 5.5, if you have passion for this sport train really hard. Besides, you have a tall, strong build, I'm only like 5 '11, 155 pounds, so you should be able to play very well if you develop correct consistent form.

As for your serve, this is probably mentioned before, but I would recommend practicing your toss until you can consistently swing upwards at the ball and get the ball where you want. Good luck, and I hope everything goes well.

Djokovicfan4life
01-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Why is it obvious? Because I'm older than normal? Fat? Bad serve? Bad footwork?

Thanks.

Well, I'm not going to sit here and say something I don't mean, so I'll just be blunt here.

1. 21 years old is VERY old in terms of training to go pro. Most pros hit their prime around this age. The muscles have to be trained at a very young age to stand any chance of going pro, and even then it is still unlikely. I'm not sure of any exact numbers or anything, but I think most pros games start to seriously decline at around the age of 30 or so. You are 21 and it takes years to develop the skills to make it in the pros. Nuff said.

2. There are so many great players out there training to go pro that you pretty much HAVE to be very naturally gifted to make it on the pro tour. Hard work isn't always enough. Sad but true.

3. It costs big money to start a pro career. It's not like you'd be getting a wild card into Wimbledon for your first tournament. Most pros are barely making anything in the futures and satellite tournaments once you factor in the costs of travelling expenses.

Eph
01-05-2009, 06:30 AM
Wow, I only had one knee surgery before, and I'm having a hard time getting back to where I was before. It must be really frustrating to have had 6 >_>. But don't worry, at 21 years old, you still have lots of time to make it to the higher levels of tennis, like 5.0 or 5.5, if you have passion for this sport train really hard. Besides, you have a tall, strong build, I'm only like 5 '11, 155 pounds, so you should be able to play very well if you develop correct consistent form.

As for your serve, this is probably mentioned before, but I would recommend practicing your toss until you can consistently swing upwards at the ball and get the ball where you want. Good luck, and I hope everything goes well.

Yeah, I'm working on the toss - and trying to explode into the ball. I'll take some video today.