PDA

View Full Version : Help needed on deuce court serve


sureshs
01-03-2009, 01:56 PM
I am right-handed and am now re-engineering my serve based on instructions gathered from many sources. It is working on the ad side. But on the deuce side, the serve often lands long in the wrong court.

Where does the left toe point at the beginning of the serve? I point it to the right net post in the ad court. But doing the same in the deuce court requires a lot of body rotation. I am pointing it somewhat to the right of the backhand corner of the opposite deuce court. Even then, the serve is going wide.

I am tossing to 1 o'clock (in front of the left toe) in both courts. Is there a different swing motion in the two courts?

Kevo
01-03-2009, 03:12 PM
I don't think your toe has to actually point at the net post. That is a general guideline. It won't always work if you are not standing close to the center line. About a 45 degree angle to the baseline is a good guideline, although the angle can be much shallower depending on the server. The main thing is you need to have your shoulders and hips turned sideways (parallel to the sideline) so that you can rotate into the serve.

As far as the swing motion goes, it's not really different between the two sides like it is when you are hitting a different type of serve. The swing pattern between the two sides is pretty much the same, you are just aiming to a different spot on the court.

sureshs
01-03-2009, 03:18 PM
The swing pattern between the two sides is pretty much the same, you are just aiming to a different spot on the court.

Is there different amounts of torso rotation in the two cases? I mean, something has got to be different.

NoBadMojo
01-03-2009, 03:25 PM
I am right-handed and am now re-engineering my serve based on instructions gathered from many sources. It is working on the ad side. But on the deuce side, the serve often lands long in the wrong court.

Where does the left toe point at the beginning of the serve? I point it to the right net post in the ad court. But doing the same in the deuce court requires a lot of body rotation. I am pointing it somewhat to the right of the backhand corner of the opposite deuce court. Even then, the serve is going wide.

I am tossing to 1 o'clock (in front of the left toe) in both courts. Is there a different swing motion in the two courts?

More likely than not, the trouble is w. your back foot rather than your front....either too far in or too far out, which changes your body angle in a less than good way and therefore your directional control. based upon your stating you require too much rotational motion, it sounds like your stance is too closed. that would require more rotation, so try moving your back foot more to the right and that will open up your shoulders more. if that makes it worse, than you have the opposite problem so act accordingly (hard to tell which you are doing w.o seeing you serve). your front foot sounds fine and you dont want to alter your motion based upon which side you are serving to. yours is a very common problem which lots of teaching pros even seem to miss, or they dont observe that the lesson is less efficient in serving to one side

LeeD
01-03-2009, 04:02 PM
If your serve goes right of your target when you swing hard, just turn your body closed more so it centers.
Then you can slide it sliced out wide or pronate it flat right up the center line.
Or you can go more towards the backhand side for grip.
What grip you using?
Long serves going right of your target might mean not enough pronation, or twisting motion of your palm to expose your right thumb into the ball.

sureshs
01-03-2009, 08:02 PM
More likely than not, the trouble is w. your back foot rather than your front....either too far in or too far out, which changes your body angle in a less than good way and therefore your directional control. based upon your stating you require too much rotational motion, it sounds like your stance is too closed. that would require more rotation, so try moving your back foot more to the right and that will open up your shoulders more. if that makes it worse, than you have the opposite problem so act accordingly (hard to tell which you are doing w.o seeing you serve). your front foot sounds fine and you dont want to alter your motion based upon which side you are serving to. yours is a very common problem which lots of teaching pros even seem to miss, or they dont observe that the lesson is less efficient in serving to one side

If your serve goes right of your target when you swing hard, just turn your body closed more so it centers.
Then you can slide it sliced out wide or pronate it flat right up the center line.
Or you can go more towards the backhand side for grip.
What grip you using?
Long serves going right of your target might mean not enough pronation, or twisting motion of your palm to expose your right thumb into the ball.

I am using the continental grip.

I think both of you are right. The notes that I have compiled started off saying shoulders should be perpendicular to the net. I think my shoulders are parallel to the left foot, which is angled to the baseline. So, it is turned over too much, like JMac's serving stance. But I don't have his spring-like torso for sure. Will work on it tomorrow.

I have hit a plateau with my serve, so I desperately need to do something.

LeeD
01-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Plateau....
If you're using continental already, and lineing up your feet slightly closed to your opponent, your back slightly or barely exposed to your opponent, then you basically just need to practice more and swing much faster.
On a typical sorta fast first serve that you need to get in more than 50%, your swing speed should be around 70% of the fastest you can possibly swing the racket for a flat shot.
For a typical second serve, usually topspin, you lead with the edge of the racket to impart topspin, so you should be working on swing the racket at least 20% faster than your fastest flat serve swing.
The topspin swing should be much faster because there's less air resistance, and there is no need to slow your swing speed on second serves.
We're trying to impart enough spin to make that ball OVAL, right?

sureshs
01-04-2009, 05:21 PM
Much success today with moving the back foot more in line with the front (or shoulders perpendicular to net or body parallel to sideline, whichever way you look at it). Getting a much clearer view of the opposing court now and required much less upper body rotation. Played a set and won 7-5.

Looking at my notes again, and they say "follow thru across the body with the racquet ending up on the non-dominant side." I am not sure what I am doing, but regardless, is this something to do consciously?

LeeD
01-04-2009, 05:50 PM
You follow thru so you can hit consistently.
If your follow thru is almost the same each serve and swing, your results become consistent.
If you follow thru across your body, that's a traditional flat, sliced, or topspin serve.
However, one serve you follow thru on your hitting side. That's the high kicker usually out wide, opposing the arc flight of the ball. That one is a high kicker from a right hander to a righthander, out wide and high to the backhand or add court.

sureshs
01-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Thanks. Let me try something more here. On which foot do you land? What I have gathered is that it is quite OK to land on the right foot for club level play (i.e., right foot is the first foot to land inside the baseline). If you uncoil with such force that you leave the ground, then land on the left foot first, as the pros do. So I am going with the first option.

LeeD
01-04-2009, 06:25 PM
Mostly....
Guys who serve off both feet, pushing off with both, tend to land with their backfoot first, and ahead of the front foot.
Guys who serve by stepping forwards with the back foot, then pushing off both, tend to land with the front foot first and forward.
Either works just fine.
The results matter. Big flat first serve your opponent can't handle. Miss, and a faster swing high bouncing second serve 65% to opponents high backhand.
Hope for patsy return you can crush with your high forehand volley.

sureshs
01-04-2009, 07:03 PM
Mostly....
Guys who serve off both feet, pushing off with both, tend to land with their backfoot first, and ahead of the front foot.
Guys who serve by stepping forwards with the back foot, then pushing off both, tend to land with the front foot first and forward.
Either works just fine.
The results matter. Big flat first serve your opponent can't handle. Miss, and a faster swing high bouncing second serve 65% to opponents high backhand.
Hope for patsy return you can crush with your high forehand volley.

You are talking about platform vs pinpoint stances. I don't doubt what you say, but EVERY pro lands on the front foot. Every junior seems to do that too. So does everyone serve with pinpoint?

LeeD
01-04-2009, 07:23 PM
And of course, I didn't mention the guys who push with both feet without any prior movements, twist into the court and land first with their former back foot on prep.
I don't think we have to focus on which foot we land on.
We're talking serves, not ballet form.
What works for you, consistent with maximum pop, is the goal.
An example is the much studied NFL quarterback. See Favre's lightning quick loop motion. A pure natural.
See either Mannings much more practiced and mechanical motion.
See Brady's almost slow motion easy flowing motion.
See RandallCunninghams super long almost outfielders motion.
All Elways' efficient take back and gun.
All different, all workable at the Pro level.
Land however you want, lets see the serve, it's pace, direction, depth, consistency, and spin.