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Farz77
01-04-2009, 07:49 AM
I was playing a match the other day against an agressive opponent who had a massive serve. I one serve he kept going after was the wide serve on the ad court. He went up the middle every once and awhile to keep me honest but I would block it back with my backhand. My dilemna is that I would split-step, then step out with my right foot, and then I would do a 360 (counterclockwise obviously) to get back into position. When I started doing that I got back into the match. I was simply wondering if any of you do such a thing, and if you have seen any pros do that to on wide serves.
Appreciate it.
Thanks.

dennis10is
01-04-2009, 07:55 AM
Let me get this straight.

You are right handed, he serves wide on the ad side to your backhand.

You cross over with you right foot, I assue a lunging step and you block the serve back with a one handed backhand return shot.

Is your shoulder completely closed, or beyond closed at point of contact? Basically, you are facing (in terms of your hips and shoulder) towards the back fence.

If that is the case, momemtun will carry you around so why fight it right?

Now, my question is:

After your right foot cross over and you've blocked the return. What is your footworks?

right foot x-over, left foot shift weight, right foot continued with counter-clockwise step to bring yourself around?

Farz77
01-04-2009, 08:00 AM
Let me get this straight.

You are right handed, he serves wide on the ad side to your backhand.

You cross over with you right foot, I assue a lunging step and you block the serve back with a one handed backhand return shot.

Is your shoulder completely closed, or beyond closed at point of contact? Basically, you are facing (in terms of your hips and shoulder) towards the back fence.

If that is the case, momemtun will carry you around so why fight it right?

Now, my question is:

After your right foot cross over and you've blocked the return. What is your footworks?

right foot x-over, left foot shift weight, right foot continued with counter-clockwise step to bring yourself around?

I just push off with my right foot and turn, I guess it's not a 360, it's more of a 180 since I am Almost completely turned away from the net. My hips are facing the side fence at times, other times facing the back one.

LeeD
01-04-2009, 08:45 AM
That's the quickest recovery footwork when you are stretched and your back is facing your opponent.
Takes waaay too long to turn around facing the opponent, then move back to center.
Happens all the time for top level tennis, as good players can stretch you out at least once every 10 shots...or more often.
On the forehand side, a wide sliding sliced forehand is the best solution for returning really wide balls you can barely reach.

Farz77
01-04-2009, 08:52 AM
does anyone have or has seen any vids of pros doing such a thing. I know it worked well for me....

LeeD
01-04-2009, 09:01 AM
Don't you watch pro tennis?
Happens almost every match.
When you're stretch so wide you barely get to the ball, your stance is completely closed, back to the net, the quickest way to get back to center is another 180.

Farz77
01-04-2009, 09:03 AM
Don't you watch pro tennis?
Happens almost every match.
When you're stretch so wide you barely get to the ball, your stance is completely closed, back to the net, the quickest way to get back to center is another 180.

I watch it a lot actually, I guess I never payed attention to that. The mind naturally wonders off the the server who receiving the return.

BullDogTennis
01-04-2009, 10:44 AM
i've done 360's before during tennis. its deff. a bad habit to get into. it DOES help you get into possition, but it makes you turn your back, and lose the ball. i've learned in all sports, when on defense NEVER turn your back to the ball.(football--i was a Dlineman, that was bascially meaning dont do spin moves, because you lose the sight of the ball) i took that to tennis.

strahan918
01-04-2009, 12:03 PM
i've done 360's before during tennis. its deff. a bad habit to get into. it DOES help you get into possition, but it makes you turn your back, and lose the ball. i've learned in all sports, when on defense NEVER turn your back to the ball.(football--i was a Dlineman, that was bascially meaning dont do spin moves, because you lose the sight of the ball) i took that to tennis.

No spin moves in football? I see Dwight Freeney do that all the time and he pass rushes pretty well? And as for tennis-wise, I dont think you really lose sight of the ball because its not like theres anything preventing you from losing sight of the ball in that small amount of time unlike in football, where there are 21 other guys.

tennisdad65
01-04-2009, 12:56 PM
Don't you watch pro tennis?
Happens almost every match.
When you're stretch so wide you barely get to the ball, your stance is completely closed, back to the net, the quickest way to get back to center is another 180.

anybody have a video showing a pro doing a 360?

LeeD
01-04-2009, 03:09 PM
I don't have a vid, sorry.
But part of the technique in pass coverage (football, DB) is you have to run with the reciever, so you get spun all the time on Z patterns and even some post patterns.
You need speed, but you need agility and footwork, that's why you practice.
A linemen who gets spun on a running play is out of the loop, so they don't allow themselves that preveledge.
As an outside linebacker, covering mostly the tight end or halfback coming out of the pack, you get spun all the time. You just gotta know where the ball is at all times.

BullDogTennis
01-04-2009, 04:58 PM
No spin moves in football? I see Dwight Freeney do that all the time and he pass rushes pretty well? And as for tennis-wise, I dont think you really lose sight of the ball because its not like theres anything preventing you from losing sight of the ball in that small amount of time unlike in football, where there are 21 other guys.


im on a high school level, no where as good as dwight freeney. and ill go farther and say why do you think draws, and screens work so well on 3rd and longs? BIG pass rushes. Ends go wide,(spin,swim) and get out of position and get ran inbtween. and of course in football there is always SOME time where its ok, like 3rd and 20 or somethin, when even if they WERE to run a draw you have linebackers to catch up before they get the 1st.

and back to a tennis POW. of course if you get to ball and hit a moonball deep, and its in the air forever, of course you have time to do a 360, maybe even a 720 and still get back into position before the ball even gets to the ground. but if you hit a blooper and there at the net, and you turn your back, then they pretty much can hit it anywhere and you're gonna have a guessing game, because your back is turned.

BullDogTennis
01-04-2009, 05:01 PM
I don't have a vid, sorry.
But part of the technique in pass coverage (football, DB) is you have to run with the reciever, so you get spun all the time on Z patterns and even some post patterns.
You need speed, but you need agility and footwork, that's why you practice.
A linemen who gets spun on a running play is out of the loop, so they don't allow themselves that preveledge.
As an outside linebacker, covering mostly the tight end or halfback coming out of the pack, you get spun all the time. You just gotta know where the ball is at all times.

of course the more "skill" possitions have to get there backs turned, because if not your gonna get burnt. but i was applying it to my position(d-lineman) AND when you start doing 360's as a DB your gonna get lost and give up TD's ive seen to many of our DB's over the last 4 years lose the ball, and start spinning and it usually tuns out bad. you got to make a 180 and find the ball, at the perfect time.

LeeD
01-04-2009, 05:05 PM
I suspect if you need to go 180 to barely reach the ball, then spin another 180 to get into position for recovery, your point advantage is already lost, and you're trying to stay in the point with a lob or heavily sliced defensive backhand.
Not talking a return on a wide hit backhand shot. Talking about situation where you barely get to the ball, and DEFENSIVE.
Next time you reach back on a defensive backhand, try the spin move. It gets you into recovery faster than if you tried a traditional unwind back to center.
Kinda sorta like.... your opponent catches you off balance with a disguised lob that will go over your head.... what do you do FIRST
Of course, turn sideways! Then crab walk the first couple steps back and put the ball away from your already turned stance.

BullDogTennis
01-04-2009, 05:09 PM
i would say the best way of going about getting pulled out wide is. if your running after say a backhand, you hit it PLANT your foot, and pivot into a 180 FACING the net. so your spinning, but you never turn your back. forehand same way.

LeeD
01-04-2009, 05:14 PM
Yes, in theory it's better to keep the ball sighted.
But there's a huge difference between theory and reality.
Reality is, when you play a good player, you'll be stretched out so wide sometimes, you'll be forced on your backhand side to reflex lob or slice, taken from behind your body, so you're actually closer to continuing the pivot than stopping your movement and reversing the direction.
That's on backhand only.
Play against a better player, and you'll be performing piroettes like a ballet dancer.

Soar
01-05-2009, 06:42 PM
dont do a full 360, cause thats just show boating -pros do it too
it can mess with ur recovery,
just move in the easiest way to recover court position

m27
01-05-2009, 07:32 PM
anybody have a video showing a pro doing a 360?

I just watched some highlights from a Federer/Simon match today and Simon did one on a service return.

LeeD
01-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Talking defensive "gets" off an opponents offensive shot to your backhand.
If you try to keep sighted, you are trying to reverse your momentum from your effort at returning his shot. Also, since a DEFENSIVE shot is hit from behind your body, you have a shorter distance to recover by spinning the rest of the way, KNOWING your ball is slow, knowing where it goes, and your recovery momentum has you already moving towards the center of your court.
When you try to reverse your momentum, face the opponent, you need time to get into ready split step position, THEN you have to take another step to get your body back towards the middle of your court.
Try playing some other sports, and you will use the continueing spin as part of your normal defensive recoveries.
If you never played real football, basketball, or soccer, you wouldn't have much basis for comment.

lolsmash
01-06-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm pretty sure Nadal does this

GeorgeLucas
01-06-2009, 03:25 PM
He means a 180 - you see it more commonly from the fast players like Blake, Nadal, and Monfils as they stretched hard to hit a slice and their backs are faced to their opponent. Keeping your face to your opponent and shifting your weight and turning your body does not apprehend your significant momentum effectively.