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Eph
01-05-2009, 12:32 PM
The second video seems to me that the ball is moving much faster as opposed to the first. It also felt "better". The third video is just the last two balls I hit, both in the corners.

Am I pushing up into the ball?

Thoughts/comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2iqytaEIHk&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru1eh4B_Wa8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWVJ1Zw2b0

Farz77
01-05-2009, 12:34 PM
The second video seems to me that the ball is moving much faster as opposed to the first. It also felt "better". The third video is just the last two balls I hit, both in the corners.

Am I pushing up into the ball?

Thoughts/comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2iqytaEIHk&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru1eh4B_Wa8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWVJ1Zw2b0

Please raise the camera a bit. We need to see your contact point. We're mostly seeing the ground. Make sure we see your feet all the way up to contact.

Eph
01-05-2009, 12:37 PM
The second video is especially bad in that regards, I know. Didn't look at them until I got home.

Farz77
01-05-2009, 12:38 PM
The second video seems to me that the ball is moving much faster as opposed to the first. It also felt "better". The third video is just the last two balls I hit, both in the corners.

Am I pushing up into the ball?

Thoughts/comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2iqytaEIHk&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru1eh4B_Wa8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWVJ1Zw2b0

Look at how Federer lands in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tuHYoErQg
Left foot lands first and right leg kicks back for dynamic balance.

You are kind of falling on that right foot. And you're losing that balance big time. If you adjust that, your serve will improve quite a bit.

Djokovicfan4life
01-05-2009, 12:41 PM
You look as though you are trying to explode up into the ball, but you're too open towards the net and you're so used to sort of falling into the court that you're really struggling to break this habit. Did you try jumping into your serve? I know it's not an advisable way to serve, but it may be necessary in your case to undo the muscle memory of falling into your serve.

Eph
01-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Dude, major belt cleavage at 1:08.

You look as though you are trying to explode up into the ball, but you're too open towards the net and you're so used to sort of falling into the court that you're really struggling to break this habit. Did you try jumping into your serve? I know it's not an advisable way to serve, but it may be necessary in your case to undo the muscle memory of falling into your serve.

Yeah, I figured we could look past that as we are suppose to act like post-10 year olds. It happens.

So, I'm actually making progress in the right direction? I think you've seen my first serve videos, but you'd say this is better than yesterday's video?

What do you mean by open?

Not sure what you mean by jumping into the serve.

I felt really good in these practices.

Farz77
01-05-2009, 12:47 PM
You're opening up too much on your serve. If you can possibly pause it at conctact, you will see that both of your shoulder are practically parallel to the net. If you look at Fed's video that I posted, you will see at contact, he is still partially sideways.

Eph
01-05-2009, 12:49 PM
You're opening up too much on your serve. If you can possibly pause it at conctact, you will see that both of your shoulder are practically parallel to the net. If you look at Fed's video that I posted, you will see at contact, he is still partially sideways.

I see the HUGE difference. How do I fix it? And why is it bad? :- )

Farz77
01-05-2009, 12:55 PM
I see the HUGE difference. How do I fix it? And why is it bad? :- )

I'm no coach. This guy explains it quite well.
http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12-5contact.html
If you see some irrelvent info, do a quick word search for ``sideways``

Eph
01-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Wow, great site, thanks. Will take a look. Other than opening up, what else am I doing wrong? I'm guessing if I fix that problem I'll be more balanced.

Djokovicfan4life
01-05-2009, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I figured we could look past that as we are suppose to act like post-10 year olds. It happens.

So, I'm actually making progress in the right direction? I think you've seen my first serve videos, but you'd say this is better than yesterday's video?

What do you mean by open?

Not sure what you mean by jumping into the serve.

I felt really good in these practices.

Yeah, I guess that was a little childish of me, my apologies.

By open, I mean your shoulders are facing towards the net. You need to rotate your shoulders back to where your back is slightly facing the net after completing your toss. By jumping into your serve, I don't mean actually jump, then serve like you'd see in volleyball. I mean that your feet leave the ground slightly as a result of what you've done up until contact.

Watch this video of Federer. Watch how his back faces the net and how he leaves the ground slightly by exploding up and into the ball. Also pay attention to the knee bend. Good servers time their knee bend to where their leg extension occurs at the same time they begin their forward swing towards the ball. Then compare it to your videos. You somehow end up with all your weight on your left leg, which just kind of spins like a top into your serve. Your serve is all arm because you don't make any use of your legs or shoulders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC1hcKBh4g&feature=related

Farz77
01-05-2009, 01:00 PM
Wow, great site, thanks. Will take a look. Other than opening up, what else am I doing wrong? I'm guessing if I fix that problem I'll be more balanced.

Well, I'll take a look and see what else is up...
But as far as balance is concerned, you kind of falling foward on the serve. SO MANY PEOPLE on this forum say explode foward into the ball. That is incorrect, you must explode upward into the ball keeping your overall balance.
Take this analogy that my coach once told me : Go up like a jet, not a plane.
Good luck

Farz77
01-05-2009, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I guess that was a little childish of me, my apologies.

By open, I mean your shoulders are facing towards the net. You need to rotate your shoulders back to where your back is slightly facing the net after completing your toss. By jumping into your serve, I don't mean actually jump, then serve like you'd see in volleyball. I mean that your feet leave the ground slightly as a result of what you've done up until contact.

Watch this video of Federer. Watch how his back faces the net and how he leaves the ground slightly by exploding up and into the ball. Also pay attention to the knee bend. Good servers time their knee bend to where their leg extension occurs at the same time they begin their forward swing towards the ball. Then compare it to your videos. You somehow end up with all your weight on your left leg, which just kind of spins like a top into your serve. Your serve is all arm because you don't make any use of your legs or shoulders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC1hcKBh4g&feature=related

You mean right leg, you're supposed to land on the left leg.

Farz77
01-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Take in some of what DjokovicFan4Life said. Don not jump into the ball, but do not just stay planted on the ground either. If you bend those knees enough and reach up and extend to hit that ball, you will naturally come a bit off the ground, and then you can land on the left foot, then the right. Not the other way around. Just browse through that site and watch serve clips. You'll get a hang of it.

Djokovicfan4life
01-05-2009, 01:16 PM
You mean right leg, you're supposed to land on the left leg.

When I said the left leg, I was referring to Eph's serve. He transfers all his weight onto the left leg and almost spins into the serve. Very strange, I must say.

Farz77
01-05-2009, 01:17 PM
When I said the left leg, I was referring to Eph's serve. He transfers all his weight onto the left leg and almost spins into the serve. Very strange, I must say.

Oh I see! Yes, he must break that habit in order to improve that serve.

rozy888
01-05-2009, 01:18 PM
during the ball toss you tend to slide your left foot and that makes you more open

Eph
01-05-2009, 01:35 PM
Thanks for all the help thus far. I have to run out but will read this once I'm back. Thank you!

Is my serve really progressing or am I at an impasse?

EikelBeiter
01-05-2009, 01:43 PM
First thing i noticed is that you're not getting the maximum reach out of your service. It seems that with a little more effort you can hit the ball a feet higher if you stretch more into a "trophy position". I'd work on that first if i were you.

Eph
01-05-2009, 03:36 PM
Yeah, I guess that was a little childish of me, my apologies.

By open, I mean your shoulders are facing towards the net. You need to rotate your shoulders back to where your back is slightly facing the net after completing your toss. By jumping into your serve, I don't mean actually jump, then serve like you'd see in volleyball. I mean that your feet leave the ground slightly as a result of what you've done up until contact.

Watch this video of Federer. Watch how his back faces the net and how he leaves the ground slightly by exploding up and into the ball. Also pay attention to the knee bend. Good servers time their knee bend to where their leg extension occurs at the same time they begin their forward swing towards the ball. Then compare it to your videos. You somehow end up with all your weight on your left leg, which just kind of spins like a top into your serve. Your serve is all arm because you don't make any use of your legs or shoulders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC1hcKBh4g&feature=related

How do I make these corrections?

ssjkyle31
01-05-2009, 03:47 PM
Eph, do you have any shoulder or arms problems?

Eph
01-05-2009, 03:49 PM
No... I have a neuro problem which radiates down my arm but was caused from a trauma.

(You can call me Chris if you want)

ssjkyle31
01-05-2009, 04:01 PM
I see..you needed to develop a serve that is comfortable for you. A nice placed serves is better than a hard serve that will cause you problem later in life. Work on a consistent toss. From all your video there was a couple serves that actually look good . The toss looked to be at the right height (but I can't tell because of the video and you were not off balanced with appropiate follow through

Eph
01-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Can you point out one of the good serves?

How do I work on a consistent toss? What do I need to do?

LeeD
01-05-2009, 04:23 PM
Consider....
YOU control when you want to serve, how you want to serve, when to toss the ball, how to toss the ball, where to toss the ball.
So practice. You'll need about 10,000 tosses before it goes the same place 90% of the time.
Then you will discover you need to hit the ball 3 different spots along the ball arc.
The you will discover....
See, just practice more. Your toss is remedial, you have to do it more often.

ssjkyle31
01-05-2009, 04:27 PM
Looks like you are player trying to learning to serve with a non dominate arm. Serves at :51, 1:36 , 1:58 & 2:20 look okay. From the body movement, your toss too much in front and to the right. You might want to toss a little more closer to you and to the left.

ronalditop
01-05-2009, 05:47 PM
your service motion doesnt look so good but all your serves goes in at a medium speed. nice.

Djokovicfan4life
01-05-2009, 06:56 PM
How do I make these corrections?

Well, for starters you need to correct that tossing motion. You toss the ball with your arm pointing towards the net, which leaves your shoulders almost completely open towards the net. You want to toss the ball with your arm parallel to the baseline, like this. Notice how his back is already facing the net slightly as he tosses the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muKDqiVer0k&feature=related

The timing of the knee bend is critical in the serve. This is the biggest issue for me when it comes to serving. Anyone can bend their knees, but timing it exactly right and staying on balance is a different thing altogether. You want to complete your toss before you begin to bend your knees. After you've tossed the ball, you should reach maximum knee flexion at the highest point of the ball toss. From here the rest should take care of itself. Since you're obviously not going to hit the ball with fully bent knees, you should explode up and into the ball naturally.

Ballinbob
01-05-2009, 07:02 PM
The timing of the knee bend is critical in the serve. Anyone can bend their knees, but timing it exactly right and staying on balance is a different thing altogether.

Yess sir +1, right on the money there. Timing your serve good takes alot of time, but that's how you develop consistency. Maybe try simplifying your motion would help? Medium toss, little knee bend, abbreviated take back? This way you'll get all the basics down and have a consistent serve, and then you can add more knee bend later and extend your takeback if you want. I went to the abbreviated takeback and it seemed to help me with consistency... This is just an idea and to me it seems like it would be worth a try. If I'm wrong someone just tell me, i want to learn from this as well

smoothtennis
01-05-2009, 09:16 PM
Eph - haven't had a chance to read all the reponses, so sorry if I repeat anything.

I'll just give out one thing I see that you can work on for now, instead of 15 things.

Notice that you load and bend your knees when tossing and getting ready. That's good. Now, watch your vid, and tell me when those knees unload and your legs come up. They don't. You load them, and then you don't unload ---what you do is keep them bent and shift over to the the front leg doing a sort if skip over thing.

When guys say thing like explode up into the ball, or jump into the serve, this is what they are talking about. You bend, and actually stay down the whole time. When you bend those knees - lowering your body, then you should naturally straighten them too, which will cause your entire body to rise up some as you go up for the ball. You can practice this without a racket or a ball.

Look at Fed on youtube in any slow mo service - there are plenty out there. Just watch his knee bend and legs unloading for a few serves - keep your eyes on his legs for the entire serve, then watch your vid again, and do the same - just watch the legs only. You'll hopefully see some things that may have eluded your analysis so far. Good luck.

[osu]ilovecows
01-06-2009, 04:02 AM
I came in with the same things smoothtennis had in mind. I could not have said it any better, so I'm not gonna reiterate what's already been said. However, pay particular attention to your front foot throughout your serve motion. It actually pivots on the ground, which should not be happening. Compare it to Federer's as an example. And you definitely want to make sure you're landing on your front foot.

However, I must commend you on your progress, your serve has gotten much better since you posted your first video. Keep working at it!

And oh yeah, do please pull your shorts up a little higher when you're recording your serves. It'd be much appreciated on my part. :)

Eph
01-06-2009, 04:06 AM
OK. So knee bend and getting the proper toss is what I have to work on to get a good serve, right?

To get the toss I need to have my back parallel to the baseline when serving, and that's when the toss should happen? (this is going to be difficult)

To get the knee bend, I need to practice loading, and then letting myself unload rather than stay stiff, right?

Eph
01-06-2009, 04:14 AM
I just watched another slow mo of Federer's serve and it looks like we both have our backs turned during the toss. So what am I missing, or are my contaks not working properly?

http://i43.tinypic.com/hvw2nd.png Federer

http://i42.tinypic.com/i39oxx.png Myself

shell
01-06-2009, 04:29 AM
How do I make these corrections?

Chris, I don't disagree with any of the suggestions so far. But if I had to concentrate on one thing that may help you with the shoulder issue, and something that is easy to think about, it would be to focus on keeping your left (toss) are upward longer. That is the trophy position. You pull yours down and across your body too quickly, and this pulls your left shoulder across. That is why you are facing the net at contact.

Once you get your body in correct position, then you can work on the explosion with your legs. But to focus on that right now, you will just be exploding into an incorrect position still.

Hope this helps. I always try to pick one thing to work on to keep it simple. The serve is complicated, with alot of different motions. Pick one thing.

And no, your serve is not a lost cause!! :) It is really not that bad at all. Just a few little things, and alot of practice to "memorize" them, will bring you some results I think.

Eph
01-06-2009, 04:34 AM
Do you mean just focus on the left side toss, or toss it on the left side of my body?

I realise I don't have a good trophy position, nor a good backscratch, so I'll try working on that. But yes, I need the consistent toss.

shell
01-06-2009, 04:43 AM
Do you mean just focus on the left side toss, or toss it on the left side of my body?

I realise I don't have a good trophy position, nor a good backscratch, so I'll try working on that. But yes, I need the consistent toss.

Actually, I meant just the arm, as it relates to your body and shoulder position. You could even just start with an abbreviated serve to get your two arms working together. Right now it seems there is a disconnect between your left side motion and your right side motion.

I feel I'm not explaining this well. :(

edberg505
01-06-2009, 05:43 AM
Well, I can't see your contact point but I'm pretty sure that your ball toss is a substantial part of your problem. You want to reach out and hit the ball. You may be letting it drop to low. I can't really tell due to the camera angle.

edberg505
01-06-2009, 05:44 AM
Actually, I meant just the arm, as it relates to your body and shoulder position. You could even just start with an abbreviated serve to get your two arms working together. Right now it seems there is a disconnect between your left side motion and your right side motion.

I feel I'm not explaining this well. :(

You live in Albuquerque?

Djokovicfan4life
01-06-2009, 05:56 AM
OK. So knee bend and getting the proper toss is what I have to work on to get a good serve, right?

To get the toss I need to have my back parallel to the baseline when serving, and that's when the toss should happen? (this is going to be difficult)

To get the knee bend, I need to practice loading, and then letting myself unload rather than stay stiff, right?

No, it doesn't have to be completely parallel to the net. Did you watch the Roddick video in my post? His back is certainly not parallel to the net, but you can see that his shoulders are facing slightly away from the net and how he rotates them farther back as he bends his knees.

tennisguyak
01-06-2009, 06:00 AM
I just watched another slow mo of Federer's serve and it looks like we both have our backs turned during the toss. So what am I missing, or are my contaks not working properly?

http://i43.tinypic.com/hvw2nd.png Federer

http://i42.tinypic.com/i39oxx.png Myself

Yes, but you're rotating too early to where your shoulders are open towards the net. Try to keep them closed, and keep your left arm in for as long as possible. Also, don't throw the ball as far forward. There's an easy way to practice toss ac curacy, just lay down your racket about five inches away from your left foot as your standing in your service stance. Make the end of the grip even with the back of your left foot and the head of the racket where you see it by looking down, left, and forward. (I hope you understand what I mean) Then try to toss the ball with the height that you did in the video, but make it land on the racket. Thats probably the best place for you to toss, and remember when you start serving again to try to keep your body sideways as long as possible.

smoothtennis
01-06-2009, 07:02 AM
OK. So knee bend and getting the proper toss is what I have to work on to get a good serve, right?

To get the toss I need to have my back parallel to the baseline when serving, and that's when the toss should happen? (this is going to be difficult)

To get the knee bend, I need to practice loading, and then letting myself unload rather than stay stiff, right?

Ok Eph - A picture is worth many words in this case. I posted up an analysis comparison with you and Federer so you can visualize it more clearly than all these words convey. After you see the pics, then look back at my text. Iloveocows also sees the same thing so here goes:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/davisc1/EphWeightTransfer.jpg

YOU
1. Pic 1 - You are loading your legs and bending your knees fine. Good.
2. Pic 2 - You are then pivoting your front foot forward while still loaded. Bad. (That will eventually hurt your knees)
3. Pic 3 - You have already transfered your weight onto your front foot in pic 2, without actually unloading the knee bend - leaving you only on your front foot now. Your back leg instead of going UP, kicks back. You then have opened up your hips and torso before it should have opened. It is key to rememer - it is at this point due to the factors I just mentioned, that you have now lost all or your loading energy - ie, it has dissipated. You are now left on your front foot, and are now opened in your torso and hips - and you now swing the racket through the ball.
5. Pic 4 - Since you transfered all your weight early to your front foot - then hit the ball - you have no choice but to counter balance by landing on your right leg - which is exactly opposite of what you want to happen.

FEDERER
1. Pic 1 - He loads his legs in first pic - full trophy position - legs and torso loaded.
2. Pic 2 - He unloads his legs first as he drops the racket down into the backscratch position. You can see the way he unloads is to straighten the knees, and his body comes UP - all of this energy and unloading is transfering into his racket head as it drops in the pre-stretch of his right arm. ie...no dissipation. Also notice, his body is still not opened up square to the court yet.
3. Pic 3 - He is now in the air from his legs unloading UP. He is now beginning to uncoil his torso into the court, ie the ball.
4. pic 4 - He is now fully unloaded/coiled, and because of the way he unloaded his legs, his LEFT foot lands in the court first and his right is off the ground as a counter balance.

I hope this helps. Forget all the wordiness of my post - and focus on the pics. You can refer back to my technical speak later when it might make more sense. :)

The only reason I took this much time and effort Eph - is because you seem sincere and are willing to work hard.

You have a lot here with all these folks advice. I would start with the feet and legs until you get it right. Then we can get to the other factors that will take your serve to the next level.

Also, please remember something here. Everybody isn't Fed or weighs the same as a pro. Some things you may not be able to do as well of course. But you have to understand each part, and know where you are either gaining or losing efficiency in this complex motion. As long as you KNOW, then ok. Some people can't bend their knees well, etc. Some are not as limber with the backscratch, etc, etc.

shell
01-06-2009, 08:06 AM
You live in Albuquerque?

Yep. (10 char)

Eph
01-06-2009, 11:57 AM
Ok Eph - A picture is worth many words in this case. I posted up an analysis comparison with you and Federer so you can visualize it more clearly than all these words convey. After you see the pics, then look back at my text. Iloveocows also sees the same thing so here goes:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g253/davisc1/EphWeightTransfer.jpg

YOU
1. Pic 1 - You are loading your legs and bending your knees fine. Good.
2. Pic 2 - You are then pivoting your front foot forward while still loaded. Bad. (That will eventually hurt your knees)
3. Pic 3 - You have already transfered your weight onto your front foot in pic 2, without actually unloading the knee bend - leaving you only on your front foot now. Your back leg instead of going UP, kicks back. You then have opened up your hips and torso before it should have opened. It is key to rememer - it is at this point due to the factors I just mentioned, that you have now lost all or your loading energy - ie, it has dissipated. You are now left on your front foot, and are now opened in your torso and hips - and you now swing the racket through the ball.
5. Pic 4 - Since you transfered all your weight early to your front foot - then hit the ball - you have no choice but to counter balance by landing on your right leg - which is exactly opposite of what you want to happen.

FEDERER
1. Pic 1 - He loads his legs in first pic - full trophy position - legs and torso loaded.
2. Pic 2 - He unloads his legs first as he drops the racket down into the backscratch position. You can see the way he unloads is to straighten the knees, and his body comes UP - all of this energy and unloading is transfering into his racket head as it drops in the pre-stretch of his right arm. ie...no dissipation. Also notice, his body is still not opened up square to the court yet.
3. Pic 3 - He is now in the air from his legs unloading UP. He is now beginning to uncoil his torso into the court, ie the ball.
4. pic 4 - He is now fully unloaded/coiled, and because of the way he unloaded his legs, his LEFT foot lands in the court first and his right is off the ground as a counter balance.

I hope this helps. Forget all the wordiness of my post - and focus on the pics. You can refer back to my technical speak later when it might make more sense. :)

The only reason I took this much time and effort Eph - is because you seem sincere and are willing to work hard.

You have a lot here with all these folks advice. I would start with the feet and legs until you get it right. Then we can get to the other factors that will take your serve to the next level.

Also, please remember something here. Everybody isn't Fed or weighs the same as a pro. Some things you may not be able to do as well of course. But you have to understand each part, and know where you are either gaining or losing efficiency in this complex motion. As long as you KNOW, then ok. Some people can't bend their knees well, etc. Some are not as limber with the backscratch, etc, etc.

Thank you very much! I understand what you mean completely, technical speak and all. (I sent an e-mail to you btw)

The one thing that looks like I can't do as well as Federer is the back after the trophy position. I have a bad back (T spine problems so the excuse should come here: and am overweight so not as flexible. Hopefully as the weight comes off I can change that.

Now, if I can bother you for one more thing: how do I get the proper toss?

smoothtennis
01-06-2009, 12:34 PM
Thank you very much! I understand what you mean completely, technical speak and all. (I sent an e-mail to you btw)

The one thing that looks like I can't do as well as Federer is the back after the trophy position. I have a bad back (T spine problems so the excuse should come here: and am overweight so not as flexible. Hopefully as the weight comes off I can change that.

Now, if I can bother you for one more thing: how do I get the proper toss?

I'll check my email Eph - but glad you asked about this. I did give it a lot of thought. I realize first of all, due to your weight and maybe other factors, you cannot align in the full knee bend as a pro does. Notice you have to scrunch up and stick your butt out a little in the full knee bend, and the pro's keep the torso straight but at a little tilt?

So I have some thoughts about this for you only. I am thinking an abbreviated knee bend to keep your torso and quads better aligned with a mini hop. At least you would still be doing the balance right, and it will not affect your toss or forward motion with the racket. I think I have to create a vid to show you this.

I'll try to figure out how to do this - and get it to you soon.

One thing for sure though. You have to stop that front foot pivoting - because when you this--- it is not only very bad for your knee and hip joint, it will never allow you to move your kinetic chain properly.

Eph
01-06-2009, 12:46 PM
I'll work on that tonight (I've been practicing a bit today without a ball) and am seeing some results but they aren't consistent yet. Will try with a ball tonight (rented court time). I think I'll work on the knee bend as proper mechanics allow and then as I lose more and more weight (gone from 140kg to where I am now, 125kg and have to get to 95-100kg to be happy), bend more. I think it'll come naturally.

Thanks again; your advice is much appreciated!

smoothtennis
01-06-2009, 01:08 PM
I'll work on that tonight (I've been practicing a bit today without a ball) and am seeing some results but they aren't consistent yet. Will try with a ball tonight (rented court time). I think I'll work on the knee bend as proper mechanics allow and then as I lose more and more weight (gone from 140kg to where I am now, 125kg and have to get to 95-100kg to be happy), bend more. I think it'll come naturally.

Thanks again; your advice is much appreciated!

Yeah, cool Eph - for now, reduce the knee bend, and do a little hop as you come up about an inch, and try to land on that left foot. I've been playing around with this today, and it's a pretty small movement. Get your racket head up more in the trophy position too....

I tried serving using your machanics with the foot pivot and all, and guess what? It hurts my back to do that! :)

PS. You don't need to rent court time to practice that serve...

lolsmash
01-06-2009, 02:53 PM
Thank you very much! I understand what you mean completely, technical speak and all. (I sent an e-mail to you btw)

The one thing that looks like I can't do as well as Federer is the back after the trophy position. I have a bad back (T spine problems so the excuse should come here: and am overweight so not as flexible. Hopefully as the weight comes off I can change that.

Now, if I can bother you for one more thing: how do I get the proper toss?

That's not his back bending. You can imitate that position by looking up and then trying to rotate your right shoulder over your left shoulder. Key words are over and not around, like you do, which is rather a result or the cause of your shoulders opening up too early.

smoothtennis
01-06-2009, 05:24 PM
That's not his back bending. You can imitate that position by looking up and then trying to rotate your right shoulder over your left shoulder. Key words are over and not around, like you do, which is rather a result or the cause of your shoulders opening up too early.

I didn't see anything in his post about 'back bending'. Eph means that he cannot align his back and quads in a straight line at this time due to a bad back.

Eph
01-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Well, I did it tonight. I don't know how, I just know I made more of a conscious effort to hold back, and then explode into the ball. I noticed a difference in my serves (more arc, although not faster surprisingly), and it was almost 100% 1st serve %. (I only did about 10-15 or so after practice). It felt GREAT. Wish I had it on video. Also noticed my feet going up together, and land on the proper foot. More balance, more control, better serve %.

:)

RestockingTues
01-06-2009, 07:56 PM
It's great that you're improving Eph!
Wanted to make a quick suggestion, you might want to try a full shoulder turn on your serve. I think Johnny Mac did it because he had back problems, and his serve wasn't too bad at all ;)
Good luck Eph!

Eph
01-06-2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks. (10 chars)

edberg505
01-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Yep. (10 char)

That's cool. Me too. What hitting spots do you frequent?

Djokovicfan4life
01-07-2009, 01:43 AM
Well, I did it tonight. I don't know how, I just know I made more of a conscious effort to hold back, and then explode into the ball. I noticed a difference in my serves (more arc, although not faster surprisingly), and it was almost 100% 1st serve %. (I only did about 10-15 or so after practice). It felt GREAT. Wish I had it on video. Also noticed my feet going up together, and land on the proper foot. More balance, more control, better serve %.

:)
Very cool, man. Post a video as soon as possible. :)

shell
01-07-2009, 04:19 AM
That's cool. Me too. What hitting spots do you frequent?

Mostly JCTC, but in winter some Lobo indoors. Also UNM's crap courts for serve practice or the wall. I saw your vids, you obviously play at Lobo, and it looked like maybe TCA? Nice strokes, looked the DTL backhand.

smoothtennis
01-07-2009, 04:57 AM
Nice work Eph!

lolsmash
01-07-2009, 01:54 PM
I didn't see anything in his post about 'back bending'. Eph means that he cannot align his back and quads in a straight line at this time due to a bad back.

I was referring to Eph's reference of Federer's back. Sorry for any miscommunications.