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View Full Version : What ntrp rating is this guy with a huge serve?


oneguy21
01-06-2009, 12:25 PM
You may want to see some of his other vids under related videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amg8HG0gGfs&feature=related

m27
01-06-2009, 12:39 PM
not really a huge serve, it was quite easily returnable if the other guy hadn't just stood there.

m27
01-06-2009, 12:44 PM
anyway, based on three videos (very limited info) I would say 4.0-4.5. his movement (recovery in particular) is not great but the serve and groundstrokes seem quite solid. keep in mind that these are clearly his best points. he seems to just stand there after hitting his shot; in these videos, it works out because the ball doesn't come back, but I have a feeling that for each one of these there are 10 points where he is out of position and has to scramble (or would, at least, against a better player).

SirBlend12
01-06-2009, 12:45 PM
^^^ Haha. It would be a bit different when you're on the receiving end. Video makes stuff seem a bit slower. Based on the actual time from contact to service line, I'm gonna guess 110 mph.

On the other vids, his return looked effortless, as did his forehand. I dunno what to "rate" him, but I'll go ahead and say he's petty darn good.

m27
01-06-2009, 01:14 PM
^^^ Haha. It would be a bit different when you're on the receiving end. Video makes stuff seem a bit slower. Based on the actual time from contact to service line, I'm gonna guess 110 mph.

On the other vids, his return looked effortless, as did his forehand. I dunno what to "rate" him, but I'll go ahead and say he's petty darn good.

One of my regular hitting partners hits about 115mph with a LOT more action on the bounce (the ball noticeably slams into the ground and leaps off). Unless his placement is impeccable (which it often is), it's not hard to return (once you get used to it). Just have to step in, splitstep, and chip it back. If you stand behind the baseline with your feet planted like you're 75, you're not going to get many balls back.

smoothtennis
01-06-2009, 01:15 PM
Can I be the first to rate him a 3.0? LOL!

But seriously M27 - this guy is good. His movement isn't that good? Whatever. He smoked the serve and had massive control on his forehands - did you see his other two vids?

I would rate minimum high 4.5+ and suspect higher.

vbranis
01-06-2009, 01:16 PM
The guy clearly has a ~110 mph serve, and (although little evidence) nice FH technique. I would say he's at least a 5.0, most likely a 5.5.

On the other hand, he most likely chose the best 3 points of the match. I would need to see at least a full game to rate him accurately. Even a 4.5 player can have some terrific shots during the course of a match.

Moz
01-06-2009, 01:17 PM
anyway, based on three videos (very limited info) I would say 4.0-4.5. his movement (recovery in particular) is not great but the serve and groundstrokes seem quite solid. keep in mind that these are clearly his best points. he seems to just stand there after hitting his shot; in these videos, it works out because the ball doesn't come back, but I have a feeling that for each one of these there are 10 points where he is out of position and has to scramble (or would, at least, against a better player).

I would be very surprised if this guy was a 4.0 - he is almost certainly better than that. To me he gives no indication that he is at that level, even accounting for the possibly bias behind the videos.

oneguy21
01-06-2009, 01:21 PM
Obviously since there is the possibility of him having cherry-picked the best points he played, if your going to give him a rating assume that he often does this regularly in a match.

Noaler
01-06-2009, 01:25 PM
Yup, I've played 4.0s, this guy seemed better.

EikelBeiter
01-06-2009, 01:33 PM
I'm not very familiar with the NTRP rankings. I only have that nice scheme Moz gave me the other day. And i would say between 5.0 and 6.0. It's hard to tell because every movie is just one point. If he plays all his points like that he could be 6.0. If he is inconsistent he probably is a 5.0.

LeeD
01-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Dude hit a normal first serve out wide, with some slice and top.
Notice it bounced shoulder high past the stunned opponent.
OK, solid 4.5 serve with potential for 6.0.
He hit the ball, notice the bounce.
OTOH, maybe he's 6'2" or taller, so the bounce SHOULD be higher.
Let's see how his first flat serves bounces when he goes up the middle.
Around 110 or so, it should bounce at least chest high against the backboard behind the court.

Okazaki Fragment
01-06-2009, 02:17 PM
anyway, based on three videos (very limited info) I would say 4.0-4.5. his movement (recovery in particular) is not great but the serve and groundstrokes seem quite solid. keep in mind that these are clearly his best points. he seems to just stand there after hitting his shot; in these videos, it works out because the ball doesn't come back, but I have a feeling that for each one of these there are 10 points where he is out of position and has to scramble (or would, at least, against a better player).

That's the scariest looking 4.5 I've ever seen. Then again, we have former top 200s playing 5.0 NTRP. This guy might actually be on a 4.5 league team!

GeorgeLucas
01-06-2009, 02:36 PM
Red guy: "He's just too solid!!"


A response to a ridiculous forehand winner and possibly an allusion to the previous night.


The guy is white is good - really good. Granted he was only putting away sitters he can still pound that forehand hard!! 5.0-5.5 range definitely, judging from, like, 3 clips.

tennisdad65
01-06-2009, 03:41 PM
not really a huge serve, it was quite easily returnable if the other guy hadn't just stood there.

it may be easily returnable by you, but thats an ace against 99% of guys on this forum :) , or at worst a service winner against 99% of guys here.

couple of posters above have estimated the serve at 110 mph and this is out wide. I have seen a lot of pro's get aced by 105-110 mph serves out wide, especially like this one which was near the line.

strahan918
01-06-2009, 04:03 PM
At least a 5.0. His serve action is so fluid, and he places it very well, although he may have just picked his best serves, but based on the video, I'm guessing he can do that pretty consistently since it didn't look like a fluke. And m27, about your friend that hits a nice kicker. I think the guy in the video was hitting a slice on his first..so I think it shouldn't be expected that his serve would drop down and kick up.

SirBlend12
01-06-2009, 04:10 PM
One of my regular hitting partners hits about 115mph with a LOT more action on the bounce (the ball noticeably slams into the ground and leaps off). Unless his placement is impeccable (which it often is), it's not hard to return (once you get used to it). Just have to step in, splitstep, and chip it back. If you stand behind the baseline with your feet planted like you're 75, you're not going to get many balls back.

True, true. But you're used to it. I more so meant that there are plenty of people who would be put in a harrowing situation by that serve. And it wouldn't necessarily be a product of spin and such, but rather reaction time.

LeeD
01-06-2009, 04:13 PM
I seriously doubt that wide serve is close to 90 mph.
See how it bounces back on the court after it goes in the box?
It takes a pretty high hop, arcs back down and second bounces on the court, not against the backdrop or the sides.
Even my second serve out wide ad court does that, and I'm an old short guy who lost 30% of his physical abiltities already.
And if I hit a normal topspin second serve ad court right at the corner of service line and sideline, it would 3/4 of the time hit the backdrop on ONE bounce.
Very few top pros, including ArthurAshe, could hit wide serves faster than 100mph. They need spin, and that slows the ball down to almost second serve speeds.
Would like to see that guy hit flat firsts up the middle.
Would like to see that guy hit against someone of 5.0 levels.
Nice to see he can put away shoulder high moonballs. So can Girls 18's.
If I had to rate him on only those few vids, I'd say 5.5 or 6.
Now remember, a top level 4.5 serve is close to a top level 6 serve, power, technique, spin, and speed. It's only on placement, wide, middle, or center, with consistent depth on all serves, that makes the difference.
Yes, he would beat me 2 and 2 until I got tired.

Kevo
01-06-2009, 05:00 PM
It looked like his serve bounced off the corner post, or close to it. I wouldn't be surprised if that serve was 100mph. I won't try to give a rating off of one serve. I've hit plenty of unreturnable serves myself, and I only recently was bumped to 4.5.

ssjkyle31
01-06-2009, 05:04 PM
Former top 1000 player.6.0+ Maybe in the top 1000

fluffy Beaver
01-06-2009, 05:10 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=232331

m27 is mostly all talk not so much game.

Noveson
01-06-2009, 05:26 PM
not really a huge serve, it was quite easily returnable if the other guy hadn't just stood there.

anyway, based on three videos (very limited info) I would say 4.0-4.5. his movement (recovery in particular) is not great but the serve and groundstrokes seem quite solid. keep in mind that these are clearly his best points. he seems to just stand there after hitting his shot; in these videos, it works out because the ball doesn't come back, but I have a feeling that for each one of these there are 10 points where he is out of position and has to scramble (or would, at least, against a better player).

One of my regular hitting partners hits about 115mph with a LOT more action on the bounce (the ball noticeably slams into the ground and leaps off). Unless his placement is impeccable (which it often is), it's not hard to return (once you get used to it). Just have to step in, splitstep, and chip it back. If you stand behind the baseline with your feet planted like you're 75, you're not going to get many balls back.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=232331

m27 is mostly all talk not so much game.

Hah anyone want to be this guy has never been anywhere near a speed gun?

It seems to me like his talk matches quite nicely with his cut-off shirt.

Ballinbob
01-06-2009, 05:30 PM
Wow I would love to be able to serve like that. Judging off the serve alone I'm going to go ahead and say strong 4.5. Don't get me wrong, he may very well be higher but the forehand putways werent hard and I havent seen his backhand/volleys. Could definitely be higher though.

And m27 never admits someone is good and seems to like to downplay peoples skills. In my thread (got deleted b/c of flaming, but it was 100+ posts) 99% of the people said I was a 3.5 based on my serve+groundies+footwork. He goes and says I'd get killed by 3.5s and im a 3.0. Out of like the the 50 people who told me 3.5,he goes and says 3.0. Just like with this serve, everyone thinks its good, he thinks its easy to return. Hes always the odd one out with these threads...oh and m27 says he serves 100mph slice serves lol, still waiting for that vid buddy

Hes too good

kobe3pointer
01-06-2009, 05:32 PM
Saw his other videos... very good player...

Id guess 5.5+

LeeD
01-06-2009, 05:36 PM
BallinBob....
That's how I want your serve to look and go by the end of the season.
Sure, he's just strolling around.
But when he gets into his ready stance, he tightens up, limits his motion, and really tries to hit the ball with a repeatable, consistent motion.
Would like to see his first serves.
Agree those putaways are pretty easy.
His partner, with a decent 4.0 service motion, is out there thinking about the facts of life and the reasons for ditching for practice.
Prolly major college level, translating to 5.5.

Ballinbob
01-06-2009, 05:50 PM
Hopefully my serve will be like that. And if I keep growing the way I am then I'll end up his height or more (6'3-6'4). The guy has a good,solid serve. Service motion is smooth, I like it. I guess he could be a 5.5, but I would really like to see the rest of his game. It makes sense that he's a 5.0+ though, because most players with that big of a serve and forehand usually don't have crappy backhands+volleys. Still its hard to tell for sure

m27
01-06-2009, 05:55 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=232331

m27 is mostly all talk not so much game.

I've improved a lot since then.

LeeD
01-06-2009, 06:02 PM
Yeah, back Sunday I got to hit some with #2 Harvard.
OK, his Dad said he's not 6'6"tall, but closer to 6'4".
Still, at 5'11", he looks tall to me.
Motions actually kinda similar, a little stiff and mechanical...both of them. My guy could hit what everyone around say easy 135.
Some Wilson at 70 lbs., luxillon gray for out here and winter, VS for summer back there.
I'd say the Harvard guy moved better, is more interested even hitting with me, is taller, and can hit much harder when he wants.
And KNOWING I'm just an old fart playground player, he asked his Dad to ask me to hit serves at him!
Motivated to get good, he would hit with anyone who had unusual, or good strokes to improve his wealth of input to handle all situations.
And being maybe 5.5 or 6.0 (just out of top 10 18's Nationally), he STILL hit with me as if I could play tennis, not like he hit with his Dad or other lousy players.
Motivated to get better, no lazy, no lackdaisical, always seeking new skills and face new challenges.

fluffy Beaver
01-06-2009, 06:03 PM
I've improved a lot since then.

Uh huh, a little over a month and you already jumped lvls. You would probably say the same thing even if that vid was even a day old.

How bout a vid then (with your serves too)? It is apparent you are able to take videos of your game since you've already done so.

With so much huge talk from you, you might as well back it up. :)

m27
01-06-2009, 06:23 PM
Uh huh, a little over a month and you already jumped lvls.
yes. and it's been a month and a half, which is appreciably longer when you play 3-5 hours a day and improve your movement and strokes as obsessively as I do. anyway, the proof is in the pudding: video.
You would probably say the same thing even if that vid was even a day old.
no
How bout a vid then (with your serves too)? It is apparent you are able to take videos of your game since you've already done so.
done. will be making a video tonight (been wanting to do that anyway). probably won't be the best quality (camera position and ****** camera to begin with), but I don't want that to be an excuse and you'll see my strokes just fine.

Noveson
01-06-2009, 07:39 PM
yes. and it's been a month and a half, which is appreciably longer when you play 3-5 hours a day and improve your movement and strokes as obsessively as I do. anyway, the proof is in the pudding: video.

no

done. will be making a video tonight (been wanting to do that anyway). probably won't be the best quality (camera position and ****** camera to begin with), but I don't want that to be an excuse and you'll see my strokes just fine.

How long have you been playing?

[K]aotic
01-06-2009, 08:26 PM
This guy is at least 5.0. Even when he's putting away sitters, it still shows his level. He is taking those balls on the rise and placing them at his will while the other person is still struggling to recover. This is definitely a player with a good game.

drakulie
01-06-2009, 08:38 PM
not really a huge serve, it was quite easily returnable if the other guy hadn't just stood there.

uhmmmm. whatever.

This guy is flat-out smoking the ball, has good movement as evidenced by the fact that he is all over the groundies, and putting them away with authority. Oh, and that serve is definitely in the 110 range (easy).

Forget how the ball velocity looks, as it always looks much slower in video. Just looking at the swing speed of his FH, and one could tell that ball is definitely moving and with lots of action.

phoenicks
01-06-2009, 08:42 PM
damn, his serve hits the fence, and his approach shot is great, easily above 5.0

goober
01-06-2009, 08:46 PM
Based on the limited vids I say high level player- 5.0 +.

TonLars
01-06-2009, 09:50 PM
Guy looks tough. I say 5.5 or possibly better. Serve and forehand are weapons. Looks fit and fast. He seems a little out of control in one video but he has so much firepower that he can live with making some errors at times.

Edit: He played for University of Indiana and had low ATP rankings, so this would fit

fluffy Beaver
01-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Guy looks tough. I say 5.5 or possibly better. Serve and forehand are weapons. Looks fit and fast. He seems a little out of control in one video but he has so much firepower that he can live with making some errors at times.

Edit: He played for University of Indiana and had low ATP rankings, so this would fit

What do you think of your judgment in rating now m27? Still think his serve is easy to return?

Your ego is out of this world.:twisted:

[osu]ilovecows
01-07-2009, 02:16 AM
m27 thinks he can beat an ATP player rofl. i'd like to see his videos now hahahaha

Moz
01-07-2009, 03:03 AM
I've improved a lot since then.

Your opinion on other peoples games in no way affects either the actual quality of your own game or how other people perceive your game. Once you realise that you'll see there is no need to deliberately underplay the ability of others.

albino smurf
01-07-2009, 04:24 AM
5.5-6.0? Pretty quick clip, I could probably find a couple of me playing perfect and it would be hard to say. It would also help if the other guy was doing anything out there. Easy to look good hitting against a stationary opponent.

raiden031
01-07-2009, 04:51 AM
I seriously doubt that wide serve is close to 90 mph.
See how it bounces back on the court after it goes in the box?
It takes a pretty high hop, arcs back down and second bounces on the court, not against the backdrop or the sides.


It does not bounce twice on the court. It hits the fence after the service box. It looks pretty fast to me. I was at the US Open and watching 100mph serves up close and actually thought they looked kinda slow. I would bet a few 3.5 and 4.0 rec. players I've been against could hit a few 100mph serves.

mental midget
01-07-2009, 06:04 AM
all i'll say is this is one of the more accomplished player 'video posts' i've seen around here, limited as it is. would be very surprised if he hadn't played in college, or some other highly competitive forum. clearly someone who has trained at a high level.

smoothtennis
01-07-2009, 07:42 AM
Hopefully my serve will be like that. And if I keep growing the way I am then I'll end up his height or more (6'3-6'4). The guy has a good,solid serve. Service motion is smooth, I like it. I guess he could be a 5.5, but I would really like to see the rest of his game. It makes sense that he's a 5.0+ though, because most players with that big of a serve and forehand usually don't have crappy backhands+volleys. Still its hard to tell for sure

Hey BallinBob -

I wanted to comment on your game but that thread went into the crapper before I could get to it. I still watched your vids though.

On that serve, which looks pretty good - do you know your left arm stays straight after the toss, and comes down while still straightened out? I think that is slowing your serve down because it is a counter balance, and your serve will only go as fast as that arm moves. I would like to see you tuck that left arm down by bending the elbow - watch Fed - he does it beautifully. When you get a decent serve, little things like that can help a lot.

Rickson
01-07-2009, 08:27 AM
What huge serve?

Djokovicfan4life
01-07-2009, 08:34 AM
What huge serve?

Dude, that may not be huge at the pro level, but that IS a huge serve at all other levels of the game. The camera can be deceiving sometimes, but just look where that ball bounced on the fence, and on a wide serve.

LeeD
01-07-2009, 08:37 AM
I'm not knocking his wide swinging second serve.
But after it goes in, it's arcing downwards past the opponent and barely gets to the back or side wall.
MY second serve top/sliced out wide deep into the intersection goes like that, and I'm short and old. And about half go deeper to strike the side or back fence up around 2'. I am 4.0 level.
The fastest wide serves where I play thunder into the intersection with an OVAL spinning ball making audible sound, and ALWAYS hit waist high against the back or sidewall. Not me, but one of 5 guys with real serves.
And not one of them is currently ranked over 400. Was, of course, but not anymores.

drakulie
01-07-2009, 09:08 AM
^^Lee, I hate to break it to you but the serve in that video is moving VERY fast, and with tons of side spin. The serve is definitely going in the 110 range. Pros hit serves that fast (and even slower) when hitting out wide.

If you have never seen your serve on video, I strongly recommend you tape yourself, and you will see that what you are saying is completely incorrect.

LeeD
01-07-2009, 09:19 AM
Sorry, don't have vid camera.
Consider my serve. #2 for Harvard asks his Dad to ask me to serve to him.
Dad from a couple of Girls 18's, both fresh from mid rounds in the recent Arizona JrNationals, ask me to hit serves to both the girls.
2 former top 400's, both men and over 6'4, practiced against my serve. Both under 26, so not too far removed from playing OK.
Now forget the above and focus on this....
I'm short, I'm old.
My first serve, when placed IN, up the middle, bounce waist to chest high against the backwall. I did it yesterday repeatedly, just to check, during a doubles set. The back wall is net over fencing, but the richoceting ball stops play for at least 5 seconds, as it bounces crazily around in wierd angles.
Everyone I serve second serves to complain my ball is hit OVAL, with an audible sound. I say too bad, I'm old, short, and have broken my left collarbone twice.

drakulie
01-07-2009, 09:25 AM
^^^everyone in the world has a video camera these days. Take it with your cell phone, or ask one of your harvard play mates to take it for you.

Regardless, the server in this video **IS** hitting the **** out of the ball, and with tons of spin. (including the FH)

I've taken hundreds of videos from bottom dwellers, to ATP pros. I know how much video distorts what is really happening. This guy is bombing it. Period.

LeeD
01-07-2009, 09:33 AM
Not saying he's not bombing it, but very few serves can go wide top-sliced and make the ball go much over 100.
My cell doesn't have a camera.
Consider..... Let's say that guy hits 130 flats up the middle. So when he takes out the flat, adds slice and top, the speed can't go near 100.
And I'll bet his second serve, when it needs to go in, doesn't top 85-90.
Sampras had the fastest second serves, in what, maybe 110 or so? Sampras is a better player. Yes, I know he hit some 120, but that was showing off and no pressure from 40-15.
Most top players with big serves hit over 125 on firsts and keep the second right around 90.
This guy is good, he's not a top player.

drakulie
01-07-2009, 09:42 AM
Not saying he's not bombing it, but very few serves can go wide top-sliced and make the ball go much over 100.

So what??

My cell doesn't have a camera.

ask someone else. surely you know someone at Harvard that has a cell with video.

Consider..... Let's say that guy hits 130 flats up the middle. So when he takes out the flat, adds slice and top, the speed can't go near 100.

Incorrect.

And I'll bet his second serve, when it needs to go in, doesn't top 85-90.

We are not discussing his second serve, we are discussing his first serve. Woudl you like to discuss his volleys, even though he didn't post videos of them?? :roll:

The rest of your post is garbage.

NiteFly
01-07-2009, 10:07 AM
If I had this guys serve and forehand 5 years from now... I would be thrilled!

LeeD
01-07-2009, 10:07 AM
D.....
If a player can hit 130 flat first serves, his first topspin serve, even hit faster than his second, would barely top 105 at best.
Look at the way the ball bounces after it goes past the opponent. LOOK, don't postulate. After it's bounce in, it goes well high in a severe arc and barely makes it to the back/sidewall.
That is not a fast moving serve!
A fast moving hard sliced FIRST serve out wide hits solidly up at least 2' from the ground on it's second bounce.
We don't have radar guys around in our hip pockets, so we have to use the bounce of the ball to judge speed. We know the balls are in good shape...he's not a slouch using flat balls. We know he's big and strong. We can judge OUR shots by the way his shots bounce, and his wide swing deuce serve is well placed, well disguised, but NOT fast moving.
I know, you'll come back with "wrong".
Lets try thinking about the bounce of his ball.

onehandbh
01-07-2009, 10:13 AM
Sorry, don't have vid camera.
Consider my serve. #2 for Harvard asks his Dad to ask me to serve to him.
Dad from a couple of Girls 18's, both fresh from mid rounds in the recent Arizona JrNationals, ask me to hit serves to both the girls.
2 former top 400's, both men and over 6'4, practiced against my serve. Both under 26, so not too far removed from playing OK.
Now forget the above and focus on this....
I'm short, I'm old.
My first serve, when placed IN, up the middle, bounce waist to chest high against the backwall. I did it yesterday repeatedly, just to check, during a doubles set. The back wall is net over fencing, but the richoceting ball stops play for at least 5 seconds, as it bounces crazily around in wierd angles.
Everyone I serve second serves to complain my ball is hit OVAL, with an audible sound. I say too bad, I'm old, short, and have broken my left collarbone twice.

Lee, you're also a lefty, that's A BIG part of the reason these people
want to practice against your serve. The court you are playing on also
has a big determination on how far up the wall it goes. As drakulie
mentioned, it's *EASY* to post a video or have someone take one of it
and put it on youtube. Where on the East coast are you? There are tons
of people from TW on the east coast who could take a video of your
serve.

btw, how fast is the serve you hit that
stops play for at least 5 seconds, as it bounces
crazily around in wierd angles.

drakulie
01-07-2009, 10:14 AM
We don't have radar guys around in our hip pockets, so we have to use the bounce of the ball to judge speed.

No you can't.


And "YES">> once again you are wrong. You can't use where the ball hits the back fence as a gauge to know how fast the serve is going for a couple reasons.

1. Not all fences are the same distance from the baseline.

2. I could hit a 50 mph serve that will bounce 8 feet high on the back fence. Does this then mean it is really going 200 mph??? No.

Additionally, a slice serve (which is what he is hitting) **STAYS LOW**. With all your bull, one would think you would know this. All this talk about height on the back fence and yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Again, if it is so easy as you say, video tape yourself and show us. No excuses as everyone knows that any homeless person on the corner has a camera with video on it. Ask one of your Harvard buddies to take video for you.

Rickson
01-07-2009, 10:14 AM
A hard hit 1st serve shouldn't have a second bounce.

iamke55
01-07-2009, 10:22 AM
How people can't tell that is a massive serve from the video is beyond me. 5.5+ just from the serve, and his other videos confirm.

Djokovicfan4life
01-07-2009, 10:30 AM
A hard hit 1st serve shouldn't have a second bounce.

Ummm, it didn't?

Djokovicfan4life
01-07-2009, 10:33 AM
No you can't.


And "YES">> once again you are wrong. You can't use where the ball hits the back fence as a gauge to know how fast the serve is going for a couple reasons.

1. Not all fences are the same distance from the baseline.

2. I could hit a 50 mph serve that will bounce 8 feet high on the back fence. Does this then mean it is really going 200 mph??? No.

Additionally, a slice serve (which is what he is hitting) **STAYS LOW**. With all your bull, one would think you would know this. All this talk about height on the back fence and yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Again, if it is so easy as you say, video tape yourself and show us. No excuses as everyone knows that any homeless person on the corner has a camera with video on it. Ask one of your Harvard buddies to take video for you.

Just ignore him, Drak. The guy has over 28 posts a day, he obviously spends no time on the court practicing to back up his ridiculous claims.

Passion4Tennis
01-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Just ignore him, Drak. The guy has over 28 posts a day, he obviously spends no time on the court practicing to back up his ridiculous claims.

LOL. Yeah, he may reach G.O.A.T. status faster than anybody. Just another thing to brag about.

oneguy21
01-07-2009, 10:57 AM
LOL. Yeah, he may reach G.O.A.T. status faster than anybody. Just another thing to brag about.

He does offer some insightful advice sometimes, but I don't think he knows too much about NTRP ratings. He says he tried to qualify for pro tournaments back whenever so he must know some stuff.

NamRanger
01-07-2009, 11:02 AM
It's a 115+ serve. You can easily tell with the amount of action on the ball and how the returner does not even react to it. Look at where the ball hits the fence; it's up near where the returner's chest is.



Also, the sound coming off the ball from a video camera that far away signifies that he is hitting the living snot out of the ball. Especially since it is outdoors also.

Rickson
01-07-2009, 11:07 AM
D4, I was talking about post #53.

Azzurri
01-07-2009, 12:25 PM
This is exact reason why people should not post a video and request a rating. Way too many opinions and some are just flat out ignorant (M27). This guy in the video is a strong player. He has obvious power and how anyone can argue this should not post in this section.

Azzurri
01-07-2009, 12:27 PM
I've improved a lot since then.

ha ha..from what?? Your video showed 2 FH shots. They did not even show placement. I would not even rate you as a player, but as a poster I would rate you a 1.0.

Mike Cottrill
01-07-2009, 12:50 PM
^^Lee, I hate to break it to you but the serve in that video is moving VERY fast, and with tons of side spin. The serve is definitely going in the 110 range. Pros hit serves that fast (and even slower) when hitting out wide.


I suspected the same 110 range when I saw this video a while back. For grins I downloaded and measured it and it is in the 109-111 range.

Tonight and can show you the same serve that is higher to compare if anyone is interested.

This guy has game.

MomentumGT
01-07-2009, 01:04 PM
You may want to see some of his other vids under related videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amg8HG0gGfs&feature=related

Ex college player. . . and probably a very good college player when he did play at that.

-Jon

EikelBeiter
01-07-2009, 01:49 PM
I just calculated scientifically that his serve was 108.74 mph.

LeeD
01-07-2009, 01:51 PM
Yeah, you're right, I don't play tennis.
My second post, then, did I not amend his ratings to "5.5 or 6.0"
Did you naysayers bother to read that?
I still say his wide top/sliced serve, not pure sliced as some of you may think, is barely reaching the back wall.
Back wall should be standard on all tennis courts, not longer and shorter.
Of course, I play in a big metropolitan area. If you guys play out in the sticks on homemade courts, your court might differ.
And it's tough to rate a really good player when it's hitting with a disinterested moonballer, who MIGHT be also good, but the vids show his least interested moments.
When you put up a duck short moonball, you gotta know that 70% of the time, the putaway is to your backhand. Red shirt doesn't know or doesn't care.
I suspect YOU don't know either, and probably don't care, so you'll always be exactly the same level you are right now....
You don't listen, you think you know it all.

oneguy21
01-07-2009, 02:23 PM
Yeah, you're right, I don't play tennis.
My second post, then, did I not amend his ratings to "5.5 or 6.0"
Did you naysayers bother to read that?
I still say his wide top/sliced serve, not pure sliced as some of you may think, is barely reaching the back wall.
Back wall should be standard on all tennis courts, not longer and shorter.
Of course, I play in a big metropolitan area. If you guys play out in the sticks on homemade courts, your court might differ.
And it's tough to rate a really good player when it's hitting with a disinterested moonballer, who MIGHT be also good, but the vids show his least interested moments.
When you put up a duck short moonball, you gotta know that 70% of the time, the putaway is to your backhand. Red shirt doesn't know or doesn't care.
I suspect YOU don't know either, and probably don't care, so you'll always be exactly the same level you are right now....
You don't listen, you think you know it all.

LeeD,

From now on, I suggest you write in paragraph form. Maybe it's just me, but it's kind of annoying to read your posts when you use a new line for every sentence.

Mike Cottrill
01-07-2009, 02:44 PM
I still say his wide top/sliced serve, not pure sliced as some of you may think, is barely reaching the back wall.
Back wall should be standard on all tennis courts, not longer and shorter.
.

Ball at fence contact
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/GreenTennis/junk/BallHitsFence1.jpg?t=1231372773

How do you define slightly up the wall?

Mike Cottrill
01-07-2009, 02:57 PM
I just calculated scientifically that his serve was 108.74 mph.

are you joking or did you really do some measurements?

LeeD
01-07-2009, 03:00 PM
Forgive me if I never passed English 1A and B ...
Yes, that pic is much clearer. The line of the height of the ball to the player is askewed, but I didn't see that on the first vid.
So that means his serve is OK, like maybe 5.5 or 6.0 ????
Which is what I said in my second post ???????
So what are we really saying.
From 90 to 100 is 10%. OK, I'll take 10% wrong from ONE vid unclear at the end.
I admit it, I'm wrong. His serve might go 100 into the corner. First serve, but hit with top and side, is much slower than a flat, therefore 100.
You gotta give me that much.
I say it can't be 115 because Sampras doesn't have a wide swinger that goes that fast. And Sampras is better.

Ballinbob
01-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Hey BallinBob -

I wanted to comment on your game but that thread went into the crapper before I could get to it. I still watched your vids though.

On that serve, which looks pretty good - do you know your left arm stays straight after the toss, and comes down while still straightened out? I think that is slowing your serve down because it is a counter balance, and your serve will only go as fast as that arm moves. I would like to see you tuck that left arm down by bending the elbow - watch Fed - he does it beautifully. When you get a decent serve, little things like that can help a lot.

Hey thanks! Yeah right now its these little things that have really been helping my serve. I changed my foot positioning a little bit so I can get more body rotation with my serve and its helped. Just a simple change in foot positioning, but it helped. I see what your saying though and I'll definitely keep this in mind.

And I'm pretty sure this serve was a slice guys. To get that angle with a flat serve would be hard

junbumkim
01-07-2009, 05:42 PM
Forgive me if I never passed English 1A and B ...
Yes, that pic is much clearer. The line of the height of the ball to the player is askewed, but I didn't see that on the first vid.
So that means his serve is OK, like maybe 5.5 or 6.0 ????
Which is what I said in my second post ???????
So what are we really saying.
From 90 to 100 is 10%. OK, I'll take 10% wrong from ONE vid unclear at the end.
I admit it, I'm wrong. His serve might go 100 into the corner. First serve, but hit with top and side, is much slower than a flat, therefore 100.
You gotta give me that much.
I say it can't be 115 because Sampras doesn't have a wide swinger that goes that fast. And Sampras is better.


Serisouly, you would rate the guy 5.5 or 6.0 and his serve is "OK"?

I remember Patrick McEnroe commentating in 2000 or 2001. He was asked how fast he could serve and Pat Mac said "I would be lucky to reach 118mph".

When Pat Mac isn't exactly one of the recently retired ones or with a big serve, but I believe he once was a top 50 player.

And believe me, Sampras did have slice out wide serves over 115 mph.

herosol
01-07-2009, 05:48 PM
is it just me, or does anyone else want to have some explosion like that?

how the heck can he perform his serve motion so quickly?

itisgregory
01-07-2009, 06:16 PM
I only saw two of his vids (serve and forehand) so without seeing more too difficult to rate accurately. However, if the rest of his game is solid like this including return of serve he could be a low 5.0

-G

LeeD
01-07-2009, 06:33 PM
I watched Patrick Mc play at least 3 times live, and a few on TV.
He had one of the weakest serves in the game, but could hit it faster than his more famous brother.
His day saw guys like Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Kriek, Curren, that ilk, strike the ball over 20 mph faster than he could, but Pat was a top 20 player because he was smart like his brother.
I don't think any of Connor's or JMc's serve ever was clocked over 110 at best.
Shows you placement, the ability to back up your serve with a great return, and sheer tenacity is better than having a big boomer.
Victor Amaya at 6'5" and 220lbs was the big boomer, but he barely made top 50 and only for one year.
JohnLucas was another big boomer, but he was an aberation basketball player swing man who went back to tennis in his old age (34).
OK, so you think Sampras can serve out wide sliced-top at 120?
Then this guy basically cannot serve as fast as the fastest server, period.

oneguy21
01-07-2009, 06:43 PM
I watched Patrick Mc play at least 3 times live, and a few on TV.
He had one of the weakest serves in the game, but could hit it faster than his more famous brother.
His day saw guys like Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Kriek, Curren, that ilk, strike the ball over 20 mph faster than he could, but Pat was a top 20 player because he was smart like his brother.
I don't think any of Connor's or JMc's serve ever was clocked over 110 at best.
Shows you placement, the ability to back up your serve with a great return, and sheer tenacity is better than having a big boomer.
Victor Amaya at 6'5" and 220lbs was the big boomer, but he barely made top 50 and only for one year.
JohnLucas was another big boomer, but he was an aberation basketball player swing man who went back to tennis in his old age (34).
OK, so you think Sampras can serve out wide sliced-top at 120?
Then this guy basically cannot serve as fast as the fastest server, period.

Of course Sampras has a better serve than him; they don't even compare. Maybe I should rephrase. This guy has a really good serve. I mean c'mon. Most of us would be glad to have a serve like that.

Ballinbob
01-07-2009, 06:50 PM
I mean c'mon. Most of us would be glad to have a serve like that.

I don't know about glad. I would shave my head and throw a party at my house and invite like 500+ people lol, no joke. A 110mph serve out wide..yeah I would definitely do that if I had that serve

That serve is the SHET, I would KILL to have a serve like that

Noveson
01-07-2009, 07:03 PM
My post got deleted. Fair enough probably deserved that. Anyway I think I would be very happy to have a serve like that. The sound and bounce give it away I think.

AznHylite
01-07-2009, 07:23 PM
ilovecows;2983796']m27 thinks he can beat an ATP player rofl. i'd like to see his videos now hahahaha

lol. good one!

junbumkim
01-07-2009, 07:27 PM
I watched Patrick Mc play at least 3 times live, and a few on TV.
He had one of the weakest serves in the game, but could hit it faster than his more famous brother.
His day saw guys like Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Kriek, Curren, that ilk, strike the ball over 20 mph faster than he could, but Pat was a top 20 player because he was smart like his brother.
I don't think any of Connor's or JMc's serve ever was clocked over 110 at best.
Shows you placement, the ability to back up your serve with a great return, and sheer tenacity is better than having a big boomer.
Victor Amaya at 6'5" and 220lbs was the big boomer, but he barely made top 50 and only for one year.
JohnLucas was another big boomer, but he was an aberation basketball player swing man who went back to tennis in his old age (34).
OK, so you think Sampras can serve out wide sliced-top at 120?
Then this guy basically cannot serve as fast as the fastest server, period.

Pat Mac might have been Top 30 player (he never made it inside top 20), b/c he was smart. But John Mac was a top 5 player
because he was one of the most talented player. And, you are saying John Mac had the weakest serve in ATP, worse than Pac Mac's....
Unbelievable..I am seriously doubting if you have actually watched a tennis match....

Also, John Mac's serve not clocking over 110 AT HIS BEST? Seriously, are you kidding me?

I don't THINK Sampras can serve wide at 120. I KNOW and have SEEN him serving out wide at 120.

And you are comparing this guy who is probably 5.0, or maybe 5.5 to Pete Sampras? It's pretty unreasonable to compare any rec player to a professional tennis player at any level.

Mike Cottrill
01-07-2009, 07:55 PM
http://vimeo.com/2757160

For those that do not think the guy in this thread hit "fast/hard" serve. How does this compare?

oneguy21
01-07-2009, 08:00 PM
http://vimeo.com/2757160

For those that do not think the guy in this thread hit "fast/hard" serve. How does this compare?

Looks quite similar doesn't it?

Djokovicfan4life
01-07-2009, 08:16 PM
http://vimeo.com/2757160

For those that do not think the guy in this thread hit "fast/hard" serve. How does this compare?

Case closed.

Noveson
01-07-2009, 08:19 PM
Case closed.

And any other clever phrase that can mean the thread is over

drakulie
01-07-2009, 08:49 PM
^^^THE END??


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/nekokat990/Fun/does-it-end.jpg

DJG
01-07-2009, 09:01 PM
It never ends. This is the internet, people have way too much time on their hands. :)

ssjkyle31
01-07-2009, 09:08 PM
That because half of these poster are snowed in.

herosol
01-07-2009, 09:32 PM
http://vimeo.com/2757160

For those that do not think the guy in this thread hit "fast/hard" serve. How does this compare?

confused. are we comparing the ball speed?
or the actual person? lolss?

EikelBeiter
01-07-2009, 11:32 PM
are you joking or did you really do some measurements?

I looked at it 3 times and did an educated guess.... isn't that scientifical !? :)

Mike Cottrill
01-08-2009, 04:51 AM
confused. are we comparing the ball speed?
or the actual person? lolss?
The footage of the Enqvist serve I shot at SMU is a little faster and has more action on it than the “guy with a huge serve”. Not that it matters as the results with both serves would be the same with 98% of the returners in the world. Enqvist was constantly hitting serves in 120’s on that day.

No Enqvist has a proven level and results. Point was to show, the serve was not “enhanced” because of the returner was not able to break to the ball.

drakulie
01-08-2009, 05:15 AM
^^Exactly. Not much one can do with serves like that. Just look and admire. :)

BTW, Mike>> I purchased a casio Ex-f1. Really cool camera. The high speed is awesome. I shot one close up vid of my arm on the serve to see if their is a wrist snap or what??? during the swing. My arm just rolls ( no snap). You could see the vid here (it starts at 2:33).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgoCWFnS5kU

Let me know your thoughts, and being that you are a camera guru, let me knwo if there is anything I could do different to make the video clearer (ISO, shutter Speed, etc)

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 05:27 AM
I watched Patrick Mc play at least 3 times live, and a few on TV.
He had one of the weakest serves in the game, but could hit it faster than his more famous brother.
His day saw guys like Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Kriek, Curren, that ilk, strike the ball over 20 mph faster than he could, but Pat was a top 20 player because he was smart like his brother.
I don't think any of Connor's or JMc's serve ever was clocked over 110 at best.
Shows you placement, the ability to back up your serve with a great return, and sheer tenacity is better than having a big boomer.
Victor Amaya at 6'5" and 220lbs was the big boomer, but he barely made top 50 and only for one year.
JohnLucas was another big boomer, but he was an aberation basketball player swing man who went back to tennis in his old age (34).
OK, so you think Sampras can serve out wide sliced-top at 120?
Then this guy basically cannot serve as fast as the fastest server, period.

Your entire post is rubbish. JMac had a great serve and it was easily 120 (graphite era), PMac was a decent player and its a joke you compare him to his brother (top 20???? when????). Clueless...no way you watch tennis let alone in the 80's...

You need to have laser eye surgery. PMac did not serve as hard as John. Your examples are meaningless...this will be my last and only post to you. I don't even know why some posters waste their time with you.

^^I came back to edit this...my my my...where do these new posters come from??

LeeD
01-08-2009, 08:40 AM
First of all, I did not say Pat was better than John, I said John served slower.
Again, John had a slow moving first serve. Slower than 110 for sure. He was on TV when I was still watching tennis, and I listed 5 players of his era who outserved him by 20+ mph. No, I didn't say they had better serves. I said they outserved him in ball speed.
You guys don't understand what you read.
Jimmy Connors also had a slow first serve. Hit flat, which he seldom tried, barely poked along at 110. His normal tournament topspin first was so embarrasingly slow he always asked the tournament referees to turn OFF the service speed panel.
You can sort of tell something about JohnMcEnroe..... He has the slowest swing of any pro, he hit the slowest groundstrokes, and he had the shortest, most lackdaisical volley prep of any pro. He also had one of the shortest backswings of any pro.
Yes, I know he was #1 and a good player.
Just proves that all your focus on "correct" strokes is not nearly as important as you think.
And for the record, I returned first serves from RussellSimpson and DickStockton. Those are fast serves. OK, I mostly mis hit them trying to block them back.

drakulie
01-08-2009, 08:50 AM
^^where is your video???

Joeyg
01-08-2009, 08:54 AM
I would be thrilled to have this guy on our JC team. He looks like a solid 5.5. Even with the limited view I have, his strokes show that this is someone very comfortable striking a tennis ball. For those of you that say he is a 4.0 to 4.5 or a "weak" 5.0, well, you are just showing a lack of knowledge about elite tennis players. I would guess he has played DI somewhere and probably does well in open events.

LeeD
01-08-2009, 09:09 AM
Draks, are you posting to me?
Do you want vids of me playing RussellSimpson? Or warming up Stockton and Rameriz?
First of all, I've never owned a camera. I didn't have a cell till last year. I don't own a computer, TV, DVD player, tape or cassette player, blackberry, Ipod or any way of text-ing.
Don't have earphones, a house, or a car newer than 1979.
What I DO own are 4 surfboards, 3 kiteboards and 5 kites, 5+ windsurf boards and countless sails, masts, booms, and accesories, 5 snowboards, one set of jump skis and one slalom ski (both water).
I can't believe all you 15 year old have all this electronic technology that your rich DAD's bought for you.
When I was 15... well, my Dad died a month after my 15th birthday.

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 09:25 AM
^^where is your video???

This guy sounds like Ted Kazynski...better watch out.:)

drakulie
01-08-2009, 09:29 AM
Draks, are you posting to me?
Do you want vids of me playing RussellSimpson? Or warming up Stockton and Rameriz?
First of all, I've never owned a camera. I didn't have a cell till last year. I don't own a computer, TV, DVD player, tape or cassette player, blackberry, Ipod or any way of text-ing.
Don't have earphones, a house, or a car newer than 1979.
What I DO own are 4 surfboards, 3 kiteboards and 5 kites, 5+ windsurf boards and countless sails, masts, booms, and accesories, 5 snowboards, one set of jump skis and one slalom ski (both water).
I can't believe all you 15 year old have all this electronic technology that your rich DAD's bought for you.
When I was 15... well, my Dad died a month after my 15th birthday.

Hmmmmmm. :roll:

Now that we know your life history, and all the "stuff" you have>>>> where is the video. ?

Puma
01-08-2009, 09:38 AM
Drak,

I watched the vid of your arm rolling over. I believe that is correct motion. Am I missing something?

Good Vid btw...

onehandbh
01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
First of all, I've never owned a camera. I didn't have a cell till last year. I don't own a computer, TV, DVD player, tape or cassette player, blackberry, Ipod or any way of text-ing.
Don't have earphones, a house, or a car newer than 1979.
What I DO own are 4 surfboards, 3 kiteboards and 5 kites, 5+ windsurf boards and countless sails, masts, booms, and accesories, 5 snowboards, one set of jump skis and one slalom ski (both water).


That's okay. Lots of people, young & old (well up to 50-ish)
have digital still cameras/cell phones that take video and
can update it for you very easily. I think everyone I know
knows how to do this.

I have 1 surfboard (6'4" shortboard), 1 kite, and
1 broom and accessory (dust pan).

smoothtennis
01-08-2009, 09:43 AM
Lee, Lee, Lee.........you may not own a computer, but you are using one to create posts on this forum yes? :)

Sounds like you are having a rough day. Cheer up bro.

LeeD
01-08-2009, 09:43 AM
You know, now that I've had 45 years to rethink my strategy, it would not have been a terrible idea to get a camera and ask my friends to sit around and shoot.
Of course, my friends would always want to DO, not Vid.......
Let's see.... 4A surfing, California...over 30 trophies.
One third place overall trophy for 250 production RR
By the time I made ExpertNovice, maybe 80 odd trophies...MX
2 SantaCruz Slalom overall trophies... windsurfing wave slalom
1 Stroh's WorldCup top amateur trophy...windsurfing
more than 10 tennis trophies as I advanced from C to B, but I
didn't accept them all, I was homeless and had no storage
You know, you go thru life thinking you make the right choices, but upon further review........
Nah, life's good. I windsurf 200 days a year during the season, play tennis most days out of season, still surf maybe 20 days a year, and have lots of time to read and kill each and every day. Planning to snowboard a few too, as my boards are sitting around tuned, waxed, and ready now for 3 years.

LeeD
01-08-2009, 09:46 AM
ST...
The computer I use is from CalSailingClub. It's used to process new members, newsletters, print bulletins, and all that jazz to run a sailing windsurfing club.
I come in off hours to bug you guys, just for my fun. It's maybe not Pentium speeds, so takes a while to log in vids.
I"m also on SurferMag and Swaylocks forums, and I windsurf forums.
Lotsa time, nothing to do......

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 09:56 AM
ST...
The computer I use is from CalSailingClub. It's used to process new members, newsletters, print bulletins, and all that jazz to run a sailing windsurfing club.
I come in off hours to bug you guys, just for my fun. It's maybe not Pentium speeds, so takes a while to log in vids.
I"m also on SurferMag and Swaylocks forums, and I windsurf forums.
Lotsa time, nothing to do......

Hmmm, you say you come here in "off hours"? You're on here at all hours of the day, it seems to me. :confused:

onehandbh
01-08-2009, 09:59 AM
ST...
The computer I use is from CalSailingClub.

Do you live in California?

drakulie
01-08-2009, 10:00 AM
Drak,

I watched the vid of your arm rolling over. I believe that is correct motion. Am I missing something?

Good Vid btw...

Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid.

A lot of posters feel their is a forward wrist snap in the serve. I did the video to show it is not a forward snap, rather a rolling of the entire arm (pronation).

LeeD
01-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Berkeley California.
Yes, I have legal keys, as I run it some day during school breaks.
All hours.... I think the dayleaders don't really care when I come in and bug you guys, they are all watching vids or doing homework.

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid.

A lot of posters feel their is a forward wrist snap in the serve. I did the video to show it is not a forward snap, rather a rolling of the entire arm (pronation).

Link please? It always puzzled me that people thought of pronation as the wrist rolling over. It's physically impossible to pronate the wrist without pronating the forearm as well, it just seems obvious to me.

LeeD
01-08-2009, 10:06 AM
Pronation....
The arms twists, using the crooked lineup of the racket to forearm to create extra racket head speed.
Basically, you turn your thumb from facing behind your head to facing past your opponent.

drakulie
01-08-2009, 10:06 AM
Link please? It always puzzled me that people thought of pronation as the wrist rolling over. It's physically impossible to pronate the wrist without pronating the forearm as well, it just seems obvious to me.


Here you go:: the slow mo video of the arm rolling starts at 2:33.

^^Exactly. Not much one can do with serves like that. Just look and admire. :)

BTW, Mike>> I purchased a casio Ex-f1. Really cool camera. The high speed is awesome. I shot one close up vid of my arm on the serve to see if their is a wrist snap or what??? during the swing. My arm just rolls ( no snap). You could see the vid here (it starts at 2:33).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgoCWFnS5kU

Let me know your thoughts, and being that you are a camera guru, let me knwo if there is anything I could do different to make the video clearer (ISO, shutter Speed, etc)

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 10:18 AM
Your service motion is rather comparable to Sampras's, especially the exaggerated pronation during the follow through. Have you ever considered making any instructional videos?

drakulie
01-08-2009, 10:20 AM
^^^Other than the stance, it's actually more like Couriers. My takeback is semi-abbreviated just like couriers.

I'm probably going to be working with an instructor where I live to do some instructional vids, and also film students at high speed to break dwon there strokes for them.

Puma
01-08-2009, 10:48 AM
It seems that you are pronating properly from what I can see. I believe pronation and wrist snap are the same thing. It gets wrongly named and described frequently.

The more verticle the motion the more compact the pronation movement will become.

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 11:19 AM
It seems that you are pronating properly from what I can see. I believe pronation and wrist snap are the same thing. It gets wrongly named and described frequently.

The more verticle the motion the more compact the pronation movement will become.

He knows what he's doing, Puma. He made that part to show what is really happening in the serve instead of this garbage about "wrist snap". The guy plays a very high level of tennis.

fluffy Beaver
01-08-2009, 03:06 PM
Funny, m27 has logged on everyday but his last post was the one saying he'd get a vid of himself tonight (of which tonight was 2-3 days ago).

Has this thread tamed his ever so strong ego?

Hmmm, you say you come here in "off hours"? You're on here at all hours of the day, it seems to me. :confused:

He's close to 29 post per day now....

Ballinbob
01-08-2009, 03:43 PM
He's close to 29 post per day now....

My god lol, thats crazy. And Lee, how can you possibly not have a camera,comp,ipod ect...? Its the 21st century buddy, wake up and go outside sometime. Thats just not a valid excuse for you not to post a vid. Back any of your claims with you serving 130mph,running a 4.5s 40 yard dash, and getting all these trophies. Heck you can just take a picture of your trophies, no video camera needed. I don't get how you played all these sports and excelled to this high level in all of them. Varsity football,windsurfing,surfing,tennis, and with all that you run a flippen 4.5s 40yd dash and you dont run track. And it seems like you went to state for all these sports. This is pretty much impossible, to be in all these sports and excell this much. Was your whole life sports as a kid? What about school,girls,friends,movies...? Even if it was that is still hard as hell. I mean I'm dedicated to track+tennis, but to excel like you did at these sports is ridiculous. How did you not manage to go pro with all this? Do you know how fast a 4.5s 40yd dash is or a 130mph serve? A 4.5s 40yd dash is -DAMN- fast, especially if you don't even run track. What in the world stopped you from making it pro..? If I had a 130mph serve and a 4.5s 40yd dash then I guarantee you I would make it at the VERY VERY least to a top DI college when im 18. Plus your a lefty, another advantage right there...

Am I the only one that thinks this?

Okazaki Fragment
01-08-2009, 03:57 PM
What in the world stopped you from making it pro..? If I had a 130mph serve and a 4.5s 40yd dash then I guarantee you I would make it at the VERY VERY least to a top DI college when im 18.

Of what he has said of his bio and lifestyle, he probably had to take care of a pet magical dragon named Puff.

LeeD
01-08-2009, 04:26 PM
Ha ha, good stuff, you guys.....
And when I go up to the courts tomorrow to borrow a camera, I'd end up getting pics 35 years after my tournament days!
As for the 4.4 40's and 5.3 50's, that would be maybe 1963, so the photos would be a little ..... askewed?
As for turning pro.... Yes, I tried, I entered a couple pro qualifiers. Guess what, everyone who plays those are not impressed with 129 serves, don't care about my fetching skills and speed, and hit harder groundies more consistently.
One major problem with starting a new sport at 24 is that ya gotta work enough to pay rent, food, gas, some entertainment change, and nobody bails you out when you fail.
And this after TWO major compounds, with over 20 little pieces of hardware and wire floating around the tib/fibs.
See, I was pretty agile and quick BEFORE I got into high school sports.
Didn't start tennis till 8 years and two major surgery breaks later.

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 04:41 PM
Of what he has said of his bio and lifestyle, he probably had to take care of a pet magical dragon named Puff.

This may be sig worthy right here! :)

Ballinbob
01-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Oh man, now he runs a 4.4s 40yd dash not a 4.5. And just a FYI for those who don't know the fastest 40yd dash in the WORLD is around 4.2s. How the hell were they not "impressed" with 130mph serves? I'm pretty sure you could hold your ground pretty easily with a 130mph at the pro level, and back that up with a 4.4s 40yd dash then you can beat alot of guys at the pro level. Hell, who needs footwork with a 4.4? Your basically flying to the ball.... This sounds like some BS, I mean wouldnt you be able to hold serve pretty easily with a 130mph lefty serve at the pro level? Also, after you hit that 130mph serve of yours you could have flown to the net like Superman and been in PERFECT position to volley that thing away. Simon serves around 110-115 (i think) and I guarantee you that you would have won a good number of games off of him with a huge serve like that. I'm serious, if I had those a 130mph serve+4.4 40yd dash I would make it to a DI school at the very,very least when I'm 18 (and im sure every other teen would as well). If not that then I would go and try and break the world record for the fastest 40...

edit-lmao, a dragon named puff. That's classic haha, good stuff

edit again- Lee, ask anyone here, what your saying doesnt make sense. ASK ANYONE

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 05:11 PM
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid.

A lot of posters feel their is a forward wrist snap in the serve. I did the video to show it is not a forward snap, rather a rolling of the entire arm (pronation).

I can't even believe people still argue this supposed "wrist snap"..amazing.

oneguy21
01-08-2009, 05:17 PM
Ha ha, good stuff, you guys.....
And when I go up to the courts tomorrow to borrow a camera, I'd end up getting pics 35 years after my tournament days!
As for the 4.4 40's and 5.3 50's, that would be maybe 1963, so the photos would be a little ..... askewed?
As for turning pro.... Yes, I tried, I entered a couple pro qualifiers. Guess what, everyone who plays those are not impressed with 129 serves, don't care about my fetching skills and speed, and hit harder groundies more consistently.
One major problem with starting a new sport at 24 is that ya gotta work enough to pay rent, food, gas, some entertainment change, and nobody bails you out when you fail.
And this after TWO major compounds, with over 20 little pieces of hardware and wire floating around the tib/fibs.
See, I was pretty agile and quick BEFORE I got into high school sports.
Didn't start tennis till 8 years and two major surgery breaks later.

LeeD, post some videos of you hitting some balls and serving. No excuses...just do it as soon as you can.

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 05:18 PM
Here you go:: the slow mo video of the arm rolling starts at 2:33.

awesome video man...just terrific. Necktie looks dangerous and who is Penteraka?

Djokovicfan4life
01-08-2009, 05:20 PM
awesome video man...just terrific. Necktie looks dangerous and who is Penteraka?

Don't get any ideas, Azzurri. :)

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 05:34 PM
Why does anyone post to this Lee guy? He is just pulling your chains...he is getting off.

Azzurri
01-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Don't get any ideas, Azzurri. :)

ha ha...already showed my wife the video. :)

she thinks Pantera is too young for me and she would kick my ***** on the court.:(

Noveson
01-08-2009, 05:50 PM
Don't get any ideas, Azzurri. :)

Hah she is quite cute.

Mike Cottrill
01-08-2009, 08:57 PM
Here you go:: the slow mo video of the arm rolling starts at 2:33.
my arm on the serve to see if their is a wrist snap or what??? during the swing. My arm just rolls ( no snap). You could see the vid here (it starts at 2:33).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgoCWFnS5kU

Let me know your thoughts, and being that you are a camera guru, let me knwo if there is anything I could do different to make the video clearer (ISO, shutter Speed, etc)

Normally, ISO terminology refers to Still shots and Gain refers to Video. However, the Casio is hybrid camera and might use ISO for both still shots and video.
Generally the lower ISO/Gain settings are ideal for higher quality stills/videos. A higher ISO/Gain will in most cases increase the noise. Like a using rabbit ears to view a weak TV channel; grainy and fuzzy. The reason to use higher ISO/Gain is for low light situations or when a high shutter speed is needed to stop an action scene when there is not enough light causing the image to be dark. The goal is to use a shutter speed fast enough to stop the action (no movement blur) on each frame, bright frame and keeping the noise (grain) to a minimum.


The three main settings on the camera to be concerned with are:
1) Shutter Speed,
2) Gain/ISO
3) Aperture

Scene Setup:
For best results: If possible film on a bright sunny day with the sun behind the camera.
Try setting the camera to Shutter Speed Priority AE mode. Try using a shutter speed of 1/4000 of a second. In most cases this should be fast enough to eliminate motion blur. In the Shutter Speed Priority AE mode the camera will automatically set the aperture. Start with the camera with an ISO of 200. If the camera is unable to attain the correct exposure, it may warn you. If not you video will be dark. I have not seen this camera, but in the video mode it may automatically boost the ISO/Gain, but no big deal if it does not. If video is dark, try changing the ISO to 400 and up until the video is properly exposed.

Summary,
Set camera to Shutter Speed Priority AE mode
Set shutter speed to 1/2000sec or 1/4000sec
Set ISO to 200
Take test shots and check the results on your computer.
If there is still motion blur, up the shutter speed
If video is dark, up the ISO/Gain
Retest.
If you can not get a good picture, then you may have to use the manual mode and manually adjust the other settings.


Let me know how it goes. BTW, when you film serves, turn the camera on end. That will allow you to get more of the server in the frame.

There is also so good stuff on FYB:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/articles/index.php/list/940/Filming_Your_Tennis_Strokes (http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/articles/index.php/list/940/Filming_Your_Tennis_Strokes)

Hope this helps
BTW, what happened the blond girl in your video that used to post on TW?

JHBKLYN
01-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid.

A lot of posters feel their is a forward wrist snap in the serve. I did the video to show it is not a forward snap, rather a rolling of the entire arm (pronation).

You have a very unique or unorthodox way of serving. Most would probably get a sore shoulder from rolling their arm serving like that. I've seen two other people serve with that motion, one was because he was self-taught and got use to it, the other had shoulder surgery and couldn't serve without pain using the "conventional" way so he started rolling his arm. I would say you have a pendulum type of serve but if anyone tried to copy that, they probably wouldn't be as effective as you.

FedererISBetter
01-08-2009, 10:52 PM
That's the scariest looking 4.5 I've ever seen. Then again, we have former top 200s playing 5.0 NTRP. This guy might actually be on a 4.5 league team!

lol, my pro is top 5 for his age group in the world and hes doing 5.0 NTRP.. of course I have to keep his name classified > :) 4.5 and 5.0 league teams can be scary at sectionals... never been to 5.0 nationals but there some pretty darn sketchy players on there lol. Always rumors spreading around like, " he was paid to be on this team" stuff like that.

Djokovicfan4life
01-09-2009, 01:11 AM
You have a very unique or unorthodox way of serving. Most would probably get a sore shoulder from rolling their arm serving like that. I've seen two other people serve with that motion, one was because he was self-taught and got use to it, the other had shoulder surgery and couldn't serve without pain using the "conventional" way so he started rolling his arm. I would say you have a pendulum type of serve but if anyone tried to copy that, they probably wouldn't be as effective as you.

What are you talking about? Drak's technique is the same as every good server's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fHO7dnt2eY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Sc6SYtysM

Moz
01-09-2009, 02:00 AM
lol, my pro is top 5 for his age group in the world and hes doing 5.0 NTRP.. of course I have to keep his name classified > :) 4.5 and 5.0 league teams can be scary at sectionals... never been to 5.0 nationals but there some pretty darn sketchy players on there lol. Always rumors spreading around like, " he was paid to be on this team" stuff like that.

What age group is he in out of curiousity? Is he based out of VA?

drakulie
01-09-2009, 05:54 AM
Normally, ISO terminology refers to Still shots and Gain refers to Video. However, the Casio is hybrid camera and might use ISO for both still shots and video.
Generally the lower ISO/Gain settings are ideal for higher quality stills/videos. A higher ISO/Gain will in most cases increase the noise. Like a using rabbit ears to view a weak TV channel; grainy and fuzzy. The reason to use higher ISO/Gain is for low light situations or when a high shutter speed is needed to stop an action scene when there is not enough light causing the image to be dark. The goal is to use a shutter speed fast enough to stop the action (no movement blur) on each frame, bright frame and keeping the noise (grain) to a minimum.


The three main settings on the camera to be concerned with are:
1) Shutter Speed,
2) Gain/ISO
3) Aperture

Scene Setup:
For best results: If possible film on a bright sunny day with the sun behind the camera.
Try setting the camera to Shutter Speed Priority AE mode. Try using a shutter speed of 1/4000 of a second. In most cases this should be fast enough to eliminate motion blur. In the Shutter Speed Priority AE mode the camera will automatically set the aperture. Start with the camera with an ISO of 200. If the camera is unable to attain the correct exposure, it may warn you. If not you video will be dark. I have not seen this camera, but in the video mode it may automatically boost the ISO/Gain, but no big deal if it does not. If video is dark, try changing the ISO to 400 and up until the video is properly exposed.

Summary,
Set camera to Shutter Speed Priority AE mode
Set shutter speed to 1/2000sec or 1/4000sec
Set ISO to 200
Take test shots and check the results on your computer.
If there is still motion blur, up the shutter speed
If video is dark, up the ISO/Gain
Retest.
If you can not get a good picture, then you may have to use the manual mode and manually adjust the other settings.


Let me know how it goes. BTW, when you film serves, turn the camera on end. That will allow you to get more of the server in the frame.

There is also so good stuff on FYB:
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/articles/index.php/list/940/Filming_Your_Tennis_Strokes (http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/articles/index.php/list/940/Filming_Your_Tennis_Strokes)

Hope this helps
BTW, what happened the blond girl in your video that used to post on TW?

Mike, thanks for all the info! I'll definitely try it out. The girl (croation sensation) doesn't post anymore. (or at least, not that I have seen).


You have a very unique or unorthodox way of serving. Most would probably get a sore shoulder from rolling their arm serving like that. I've seen two other people serve with that motion, one was because he was self-taught and got use to it, the other had shoulder surgery and couldn't serve without pain using the "conventional" way so he started rolling his arm. I would say you have a pendulum type of serve but if anyone tried to copy that, they probably wouldn't be as effective as you.

BOINK!

nealry everyone who has good mechanics will roll thier arm in the manner you see in that video.

In addition to the links provided by Djokovicfan4life, here is one of Roddick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCQP79ZMtgk

it is nearly idenitcal to mine.

The reason people feel "pain", is because they don't roll their arm naturally, and instead try to force a "forward wrist snap", and then pronate.

Azzurri
01-09-2009, 07:23 AM
You have a very unique or unorthodox way of serving. Most would probably get a sore shoulder from rolling their arm serving like that. I've seen two other people serve with that motion, one was because he was self-taught and got use to it, the other had shoulder surgery and couldn't serve without pain using the "conventional" way so he started rolling his arm. I would say you have a pendulum type of serve but if anyone tried to copy that, they probably wouldn't be as effective as you.

I have no clue where you got this idea. Drak has a typical serve. In fact, the arm rotation is perfect.

drakulie
01-09-2009, 07:30 AM
^^^Azzurri, Panterka lives in the same community I do. Very solid player. She hadn't played in a long time, and just took up the sport again about 6 months ago, when she arrived from Poland.

BTW, have you had a chance ot hit with the kps88????

FedererISBetter
01-09-2009, 10:22 AM
What age group is he in out of curiousity? Is he based out of VA?

55s, its a really big giveaway right there : /

Moz
01-09-2009, 10:32 AM
55s, its a really big giveaway right there : /

If he is 5 in the 55's in the current rankings he is an Australian whom I have met a couple of times in tournaments. If that's the guy you mean I suspect you have made an excellent choice. He's great to watch in a match aswell.

LeeD
01-09-2009, 02:02 PM
BallinBob....
I'm addressing you because you are honest with your ability and seem to show some interest in getting better at tennis, not just looking for a pat on the head like some others.
130 is no big thing in 6.0 or higher level tennis. Even the 6.0 WOMEN's practiced against my serve.
Much more importance than sheer speed is placement during stress and crucial points.
Speed. Speed is useless if you constantly get wrong footed. It only takes you farther from the ball.
And remember, I didn't say I was all that fast....remember me saying the other guys would lope past after 50 yards?
You see, explosive jumping ability has little to do with ultimate speed.
Remember I said that now that I'm 59, I could only standinglongjump just over 6' ??
Well, think about this. At 60, I'd have lost 30% of my physical skills. Now compute that back to 14 years old.... I standing long jumped mid 9's. Just about right !!
And why would you want to see vids of 59 + 11 month old guys when we're trying to get YOU to improve YOUR tennis.
My tennis skills have been declining for over 30 years.

[osu]ilovecows
01-09-2009, 04:47 PM
So then you're basically a 60 year old whose holding on to your past glories because you don't have any new ones to talk about? Really, your priorities are a bit messed up. 90% of the time, all I see you doing is telling others how your advice is the best and bragging about your past achievements. Only 10% of the time do I see you offering actual advice. You'd have to be one of the biggest garbage posters I've seen on this board.

Azzurri
01-09-2009, 06:52 PM
^^^Azzurri, Panterka lives in the same community I do. Very solid player. She hadn't played in a long time, and just took up the sport again about 6 months ago, when she arrived from Poland.

BTW, have you had a chance ot hit with the kps88????

She has a beautiful long stroke. She must have been a nice player in her day. She was wearing slippers for christ's sake!!

I just bought a Head PT 280. As of now, still waiting for my club to get their demo. Won't even bother to buy one unless I hit with one. Honestly, lost all excitement a while back.:(

by the way, those black oscillates felt softer than my normal pair (they are the 07 re-intruced ones). I know the sole material is a little different. They feel softer though. Terrific shoe!

Frankauc
01-09-2009, 07:51 PM
She has a beautiful long stroke. She must have been a nice player in her day. She was wearing slippers for christ's sake!!

I just bought a Head PT 280. As of now, still waiting for my club to get their demo. Won't even bother to buy one unless I hit with one. Honestly, lost all excitement a while back.:(

by the way, those black oscillates felt softer than my normal pair (they are the 07 re-intruced ones). I know the sole material is a little different. They feel softer though. Terrific shoe!

black oscillates? where?

jasoncho92
01-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Oh man, now he runs a 4.4s 40yd dash not a 4.5. And just a FYI for those who don't know the fastest 40yd dash in the WORLD is around 4.2s. How the hell were they not "impressed" with 130mph serves? I'm pretty sure you could hold your ground pretty easily with a 130mph at the pro level, and back that up with a 4.4s 40yd dash then you can beat alot of guys at the pro level. Hell, who needs footwork with a 4.4? Your basically flying to the ball.... This sounds like some BS, I mean wouldnt you be able to hold serve pretty easily with a 130mph lefty serve at the pro level? Also, after you hit that 130mph serve of yours you could have flown to the net like Superman and been in PERFECT position to volley that thing away. Simon serves around 110-115 (i think) and I guarantee you that you would have won a good number of games off of him with a huge serve like that. I'm serious, if I had those a 130mph serve+4.4 40yd dash I would make it to a DI school at the very,very least when I'm 18 (and im sure every other teen would as well). If not that then I would go and try and break the world record for the fastest 40...

edit-lmao, a dragon named puff. That's classic haha, good stuff

edit again- Lee, ask anyone here, what your saying doesnt make sense. ASK ANYONE
Just dont pay attention to him anymore brah. The thing that ****ed me off most when i first saw him posting was the way he spaced every single god damn sentence. He states his credentials that have nothing to do with the topic and also brags about how good he is. You also add on the fact he has no idea what hes talking about for NTRP ratings, i see a troll or just an old guy who used to be good at tennis but doesnt know the generalities of the game. Can you tell me at what age he said he could serve 130 mph and run a 4.4 40m dash?

bet
01-10-2009, 12:11 AM
Just more nonsense from all the fantasy posters and tennis "teachers" on this board.

A few minor factual corrections:

Mcenroe usually served his flat serve between 100-110mph in the early 90's before he retired. The fastest I saw him hit was 115mph. This was early 90's radar and thus much slower than the ones today. He clocked a 128mph serve on the seniors tour!

Connors' flat serve was at about the same speed depending on which motion/stage of his career it was. Though Lee claims Connors chronically asked the speed reading to be turned off, Connor's didn't even play when a radar display was standard issue at tournaments. In the few tournies at the very end of his career when there was a panel I did not see him ever ask for it to be turned off, though it's possible he may. Jim Courier on the other hand hated the radar displays. Having said that, Connors really had nothing to be embarassed of and probably couldn't care less what the display said. He might asked for it to be turned off just a psychological game but his serve was effective enough for decades and he wasn't trying to fool anybody into thinking he was a big server. In fact, Connors would probably get off on beating an opponent while hitting "slow" serves.

Again, directed towards Lee, Sampras was quite capable of hitting WELL over 100mph on a similar wide serve. That serve was not particularly wide. In fact, it was not a heavy slice, but a mild slice with quite a bit of speed. Sampras could hit a serve like this in the 120-125 mph range. Sampras did sometimes hit extreme breaking serves, these serves would land 2-6 feet up the service box and then break sideways into the fence. On a court like this, they wouldn't go anywhere near the corner but hit WAY WAY up the side fence, Sampras usually hit THESE types of serves in the 90-100mph range.

quicken
01-10-2009, 12:44 AM
Ok I don't know what kind of re***** said this player is 4.0~4.5, but he/she/it is obviously wrong. 4.0/4.5 do not have serves that fast and foot work/groundies that great. Obviously 5.5+

TheOverlord
01-10-2009, 08:06 AM
you are all wrong, except those that said at least 6.0

the guy in the video is neil Kenner, and here is another youtube video of him competeing in a chellenger event. this means he's 6.0+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLP3hf-sqOo

for those who said 4.0-5.0, what are you smoking? that's a big serve made by someone who is making $$$ off tennis

Mada
01-10-2009, 08:23 AM
you are all wrong, except those that said at least 6.0

the guy in the video is neil Kenner, and here is another youtube video of him competeing in a chellenger event. this means he's 6.0+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLP3hf-sqOo

for those who said 4.0-5.0, what are you smoking? that's a big serve made by someone who is making $$$ off tennis

His opponents racquet made a weird sound when he hit it o.O

But on topic, yeah, that guy's an amazing player.

TheOverlord
01-10-2009, 08:26 AM
His opponents racquet made a weird sound when he hit it o.O

But on topic, yeah, that guy's an amazing player.

i thought his opponent was better overall, knew he was going to win the match just by seeing how he was more calm and composed than kenner. the sound might be caused by a certain set of strings/tension?

bugmenot
01-10-2009, 08:31 AM
His opponents racquet made a weird sound when he hit it o.O

But on topic, yeah, that guy's an amazing player.

i thought his opponent was better overall, knew he was going to win the match just by seeing how he was more calm and composed than kenner. the sound might be caused by a certain set of strings/tension?

It's probably because of the woofer grommets from the aerodrive.

Azzurri
01-10-2009, 12:09 PM
black oscillates? where?

I got them as gift from a TT member.:D

MomentumGT
01-10-2009, 11:41 PM
you are all wrong, except those that said at least 6.0

the guy in the video is neil Kenner, and here is another youtube video of him competeing in a chellenger event. this means he's 6.0+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLP3hf-sqOo

for those who said 4.0-5.0, what are you smoking? that's a big serve made by someone who is making $$$ off tennis

Guess I rated him low with the former D1 player rating earlier. Both guys can ball.

-Jon

Okazaki Fragment
01-11-2009, 12:18 AM
you are all wrong, except those that said at least 6.0

the guy in the video is neil Kenner, and here is another youtube video of him competeing in a chellenger event. this means he's 6.0+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLP3hf-sqOo

for those who said 4.0-5.0, what are you smoking? that's a big serve made by someone who is making $$$ off tennis

3.0 at best. They couldn't even keep a longer than 5 ball rally!

x Southpaw x
01-11-2009, 02:04 AM
You may want to see some of his other vids under related videos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amg8HG0gGfs&feature=related

I don't know why I started laughing. He walked slowly to the line, suddenly sunk down and grunted. WAIT did he serve already???

FedererISBetter
01-12-2009, 03:43 PM
If he is 5 in the 55's in the current rankings he is an Australian whom I have met a couple of times in tournaments. If that's the guy you mean I suspect you have made an excellent choice. He's great to watch in a match aswell.

I think I know who you're talking about. The pro I am talking about is from the US tho.

Petekbladetour1
01-19-2009, 03:24 AM
[QUOTE=SirBlend12;2982135 I'm gonna guess 110 mph.

.[/QUOTE]

REally? im gonna guess 125mph!