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View Full Version : Federer should look to Arnold for inspiration


slicefox
01-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Hey, I honestly think that the problem with Federer these days could easily be fixed if he starts pumping up. Federer never had any physique, the only thing that saved him was his agility and coordination... which are good, but if he puts on a few pounds, it would compliment him nicely.

I'm not saying you have to be Mr. Olympia to play tennis, but strength definitely helps. It would help him move his torso faster, and his wrist/forearm and all that. Mix that in with the excellent federer coordiation and technique, and you'll get yourself a few more slams.

Anyone agree?

The_Steak
01-09-2009, 10:32 PM
He already is strong.....

ThugNasty
01-09-2009, 10:32 PM
Hey, I honestly think that the problem with Federer these days could easily be fixed if he starts pumping up. Federer never had any physique, the only thing that saved him was his agility and coordination... which are good, but if he puts on a few pounds, it would compliment him nicely.

I'm not saying you have to be Mr. Olympia to play tennis, but strength definitely helps. It would help him move his torso faster, and his wrist/forearm and all that. Mix that in with the excellent federer coordiation and technique, and you'll get yourself a few more slams.

Anyone agree?
nope. Federer is no by means a weak person. He has really broad shoulders, massive right forearm (that thing is huge!), and muscular legs. I think that's all you need really in tennis

DJG
01-09-2009, 10:33 PM
Not sure I agree - he is fine as-is and it is not like he needs any additional muscle to generate more speed. It may even get in the way...

fps
01-10-2009, 03:21 AM
he does all kinds of strength training including wrestling!! he may not be pumped, but every muscle he has is very well honed for his game.

anyone know how much fed weighs? he looks so light on court, bigger upper body would limit him. but people are more worried about whether he's still got the legs, i believe?

phoenicks
01-10-2009, 04:58 AM
OP you really don't know what you are talking about, Federer don't have enough strength??? That's like saying Davydenko ( an excellent mover on court ) need to look Usain Bolt for inspiration.

Federer forehand is one of the most fluid and powerful in the tour, not the most powerful, but he can constantly hit with great pace and angle. What Federer does last year is that His forehand just had more error, and that had more to do with his footwork, speed and aging ( starting ald ). If his timing,footwork and speed is still at 05-07 level, he would of course have lesser error and more winner.

S H O W S T O P P E R !
01-10-2009, 07:42 AM
nope. Federer is no by means a weak person. He has really broad shoulders, massive right forearm (that thing is huge!), and muscular legs. I think that's all you need really in tennis

Agreed, that thing is a club.

TennezSport
01-10-2009, 10:12 AM
OP more to do with his footwork, speed and aging ( starting old ). If his timing,footwork and speed is still at 05-07 level, he would of course have lesser errors and more winners.

While I agree with the fact that Fed is making too many errors these days (kinda like the Fed of pre '03) and his footwork could be better, I do not think it's because of age. Studys have shown that the ages of 25-30/32 are the strongest years for men, so Fed should be at his peak now.

I believe his problem is in his lack of patience and shot versatlity. Fed does not show the variety of shots that he used to and his net work has gotten sloppy compared to 2K5-2K7. I also think that he needs to get back the endurance that he once had (probably lost due to the mono), so that he won't lose patience in longer points.

I always believed that Gil Reyes would make Fed Superman once again as he did for Agassi at the end. If Fed can get those things back in his game and cut out the errors, we may see one last ride of magic tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

l_gonzalez
01-10-2009, 10:49 AM
While I agree with the fact that Fed is making too many errors these days (kinda like the Fed of pre '03) and his footwork could be better, I do not think it's because of age. Studys have shown that the ages of 25-30/32 are the strongest years for men, so Fed should be at his peak now.

I believe his problem is in his lack of patience and shot versatlity. Fed does not show the variety of shots that he used to and his net work has gotten sloppy compared to 2K5-2K7. I also think that he needs to get back the endurance that he once had (probably lost due to the mono), so that he won't lose patience in longer points.

I always believed that Gil Reyes would make Fed Superman once again as he did for Agassi at the end. If Fed can get those things back in his game and cut out the errors, we may see one last ride of magic tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

Loving your racquet and string set-up by the way, gotta try out that spiky shark.

I agree with the Gil Reyes thing, you can never work too hard off the court. I personally don't agree with those that say that Fed is in the best shape he can be to play tennis, he could be in better shape. Lose a few pounds around the stomach area and definitely get a stronger upper body. I don't believe that working out and getting some muscles (within reason of course) is gonna hamper the fluidity of his strokes. It didn't happen to Agassi and he was stacked in the latter part of his career, Guy could bench over 300lbs and as far as i can remember, his groundstrokes were still sweet.

Having said all that, i don't believe Federer's problem is that he isn't in good shape. I think that physically, he is in good enough shape to beat everyone on tour, his movement is is still great.

His problem is mental. I don't see that look in his eyes, that arrogant i'm-better-than-you-and-i'm-gonna-beat-you-without-even-breaking-sweat look. It's almost like he doesn't have that blind faith in his strokes, he no longer believes he is gonna make every one of those ridiculous shots that came so naturally to him for years. Self-doubt, call it what you will. It's mental. And until he is big enough to accept that and hire a damn coach on a full-time basis, i can't see how he is gonna get back to his best.

When i watched Fed play all those matches between 03-07, i always believed he was gonna win the rally, make the shot, and just generally do something out of this world.

Now when i watch him, it's like i'm waiting for that mis-hit, that shank, that easy forehand in the net, that passing shot that just doesn't quite clip the line, that easy volley that clips the tape and doesn't go over.

Gotta say that at the US Open 08 he got it back though. Maybe he just can't keep it up all year round and we'll see flashes of brilliance instead of utter domination, but then again what the hell do I know...

TennezSport
01-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Loving your racquet and string set-up by the way, gotta try out that spiky shark.

I agree with the Gil Reyes thing, you can never work too hard off the court. I personally don't agree with those that say that Fed is in the best shape he can be to play tennis, he could be in better shape.
His problem is mental. I don't see that look in his eyes, that arrogant i'm-better-than-you-and-i'm-gonna-beat-you-without-even-breaking-sweat look.
When i watched Fed play all those matches between 03-07, i always believed he was gonna win the rally, make the shot, and just generally do something out of this world. Now when i watch him, it's like i'm waiting for that mis-hit, that shank, that easy forehand in the net, that passing shot that just doesn't quite clip the line, that easy volley that clips the tape and doesn't go over.
Gotta say that at the US Open 08 he got it back though. Maybe he just can't keep it up all year round and we'll see flashes of brilliance instead of utter domination, but then again what the hell do I know...

Completely agree and nice racquet by the way :wink:

When players stay with Fed he gets impatient and goes for a low percentage shot for a winner and then his belief suffers. This is a common problem when someone has been #1 for so long. The level of concentration is impossible to keep up; just ask any former #1. That is another reason that made Fed special, as he did this for more time than anyone in Tennis history. We may never see that again.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

Sentinel
01-10-2009, 11:12 AM
haha, i thought this was about the mental aspect, iirc Arnold lost a title or 2 and then came back to win.

anyway, I am sure Mirka would be pleased if he put on some beef on those bones ;-)

slicefox
01-10-2009, 09:34 PM
man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Federer is nowhere near a strong person, and his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak. That's how people are able to return his shots, he doesn't have enough power.

Federer has no arms, no abs, and maybe a bit of legs but he could use more training there too.

And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer. He's still one of my fav players though.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:

phoenicks
01-10-2009, 09:43 PM
man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Federer is nowhere near a strong person, and his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak. That's how people are able to return his shots, he doesn't have enough power.

Federer has no arms, no abs, and maybe a bit of legs but he could use more training there too.

And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer. He's still one of my fav players though.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:

http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/vschools/fail.jpg

1st Seed
01-10-2009, 09:43 PM
Hey, I honestly think that the problem with Federer these days could easily be fixed if he starts pumping up. Federer never had any physique, the only thing that saved him was his agility and coordination... which are good, but if he puts on a few pounds, it would compliment him nicely.

I'm not saying you have to be Mr. Olympia to play tennis, but strength definitely helps. It would help him move his torso faster, and his wrist/forearm and all that. Mix that in with the excellent federer coordiation and technique, and you'll get yourself a few more slams.

Anyone agree?

Big time!
If he hit the gym and put on some more lean muscle mass ,he honestly be more dangerous.He is way to weak.He wouldn't need to play at 40lbs tension.Might be able to generate his own pace.Beef up those arms and chest more confidence.Did wonder's for Murray, Hewitt,
With those arms he 's lucky he can hold that stick.Not a big fan incase you have'nt noticed.

NamRanger
01-10-2009, 09:45 PM
While I agree with the fact that Fed is making too many errors these days (kinda like the Fed of pre '03) and his footwork could be better, I do not think it's because of age. Studys have shown that the ages of 25-30/32 are the strongest years for men, so Fed should be at his peak now.

I believe his problem is in his lack of patience and shot versatlity. Fed does not show the variety of shots that he used to and his net work has gotten sloppy compared to 2K5-2K7. I also think that he needs to get back the endurance that he once had (probably lost due to the mono), so that he won't lose patience in longer points.

I always believed that Gil Reyes would make Fed Superman once again as he did for Agassi at the end. If Fed can get those things back in his game and cut out the errors, we may see one last ride of magic tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:



Peak for a normal person vs Peak for a tennis player is completely different.

slicefox
01-11-2009, 03:14 PM
http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/vschools/fail.jpg

Care to explain why?

Or are you just one of those weak kids who think nadal is "beefed"?

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Care to explain why?

Or are you just one of those weak kids who think nadal is "beefed"?
Hum this is tennis we're talking about, not bodybuilding. A tennis player should be strong but also fast and agile, there would be no advantage for him to be hulk-like.

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 04:11 PM
While I agree with the fact that Fed is making too many errors these days (kinda like the Fed of pre '03) and his footwork could be better, I do not think it's because of age. Studys have shown that the ages of 25-30/32 are the strongest years for men, so Fed should be at his peak now.

I believe his problem is in his lack of patience and shot versatlity. Fed does not show the variety of shots that he used to and his net work has gotten sloppy compared to 2K5-2K7. I also think that he needs to get back the endurance that he once had (probably lost due to the mono), so that he won't lose patience in longer points.

I always believed that Gil Reyes would make Fed Superman once again as he did for Agassi at the end. If Fed can get those things back in his game and cut out the errors, we may see one last ride of magic tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:
Maybe the years 27-32 (I say 27 because that's Fed's age) are the best years for men in general but in tennis, it's not the age when most players get their best results

phoenicks
01-11-2009, 08:58 PM
Care to explain why?

Or are you just one of those weak kids who think nadal is "beefed"?

yea, federer should train himself to have abs of michael phelps, bicep, forearm and triceps of WWE fighter, and after that he would overpower nadal in FO to get a calendar slam to finally cement his status as GOAT, woohooo :roll:

tacou
01-11-2009, 09:03 PM
liiiike Hey Arnold! ??

Mick
01-11-2009, 09:53 PM
andy murray isn't exactly mr muscle and he beat both nadal and federer.

RCizzle65
01-11-2009, 10:20 PM
andy murray isn't exactly mr muscle and he beat both nadal and federer.

Yeah, those muscles he flexed when he won the match were just air like that product off Spongebob >_>...

paulorenzo
01-11-2009, 10:49 PM
man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Federer is nowhere near a strong person, and his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak. That's how people are able to return his shots, he doesn't have enough power.

Federer has no arms, no abs, and maybe a bit of legs but he could use more training there too.

And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer. He's still one of my fav players though.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:


funny how federer weighs the same as nadal and outweighs murray, there must be some muscle on federer's weak, little body somewhere in order to amount to that . ahha.

i think you are disillusioned by what you see on television. federer is a 6'1', broad shouldered, strong-legged tennis machine with a cannon of a right forearm(comparatively speaking). he may not be as bulky as other players, but he is certainly not weak.

tata
01-12-2009, 02:38 AM
Fed is definitly not weak.He has pretty big and strong forearms which is why he is able to wave that heavy K6.1 for a 5 set match without having his arms about to fall off.

morten
01-12-2009, 02:44 AM
andy murray isn't exactly mr muscle and he beat both nadal and federer.

One can be very thin AND very strong!!! Stich...Korda was not big, but could play...He actually said he lost his timing, especially his backhand when he tried to pump iron for a while... Doping did too btw ;)

Otherside
01-12-2009, 07:08 AM
I think he should drop 3-4 kgs, he doesn't need any more mass, some fat % loss would do him good

slicefox
01-12-2009, 06:54 PM
That too.


And apparently some people here have never lifted iron in their lives, and they think you curl a dumbbell 3 times and you'll become the hulk himself: you get so huge you can't bend your arms because the muscle gets in the way.

Yeah right, try going to a gym for once and you'll see that for each 100lbs of strength you get, you'll have added 0.25 inches in radius to your chest. It's never bad for you.

Beasty54
01-12-2009, 07:26 PM
man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Federer is nowhere near a strong person, and his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak. That's how people are able to return his shots, he doesn't have enough power.

Federer has no arms, no abs, and maybe a bit of legs but he could use more training there too.

And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer. He's still one of my fav players though.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:


haha I dont know if you have seen Nadal in person but he is built like a linebacker. And for Federer not having enough power? are you joking? His forehand is one of the best in the game. He doesent hit exploding balls like a Gulbis or Berydch but his forehand has definatly got some pace. And when he needs to he can flatten out and utterly destroy the ball.

1st Seed
01-12-2009, 07:39 PM
haha I dont know if you have seen Nadal in person but he is built like a linebacker. And for Federer not having enough power? are you joking? His forehand is one of the best in the game. He doesent hit exploding balls like a Gulbis or Berydch but his forehand has definatly got some pace. And when he needs to he can flatten out and utterly destroy the ball.

Nadal is a big boy,As far as Fed,needs more lean muscle mass.String your sticks at 45lbs you'll have pace to.Weight training is in Fed's best interest.

Beasty54
01-12-2009, 07:43 PM
Nadal is a big boy,As far as Fed,needs more lean muscle mass.String your sticks at 45lbs you'll have pace to.Weight training is in Fed's best interest.

I didnt say hitting the wieghts would be bad for Federer, but that guy was saying that he didnt hit the ball hard. I actually think if Fed bulked up enough to gain a bit more power but didnt sacrifice his movement it could be a big advantage.

unprotennis
01-12-2009, 08:18 PM
man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Federer is nowhere near a strong person, and his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak. That's how people are able to return his shots, he doesn't have enough power.

Federer has no arms, no abs, and maybe a bit of legs but he could use more training there too.

And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer. He's still one of my fav players though.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:

please take that back.:???:

i think you were drunk when you posted that.

VictorS.
01-12-2009, 11:21 PM
It's impossible for me to know how much Federer truly dedicates himself to off-court training. He certainly doesn't look out of shape. However, from appearances alone he did appear a bit lighter & chiseled in like 2003-2005. I mentioned this in an earler thread but I think Kobe Bryant is a great example. It was a couple seasons ago. During the offseason he shed 20lbs to get down to 200lbs. There's no doubt that the next few seasons, his athleticism was on-par with any other time in his career. I just know that the older you get, the more important the training component becomes. There's no reason why a guy in his late 20s can't dominate a sport like tennis. Agassi is the blueprint for late career success. I agree....you gotta hit the gym.

0d1n
01-13-2009, 04:44 AM
This is great. Just another internet wannabe telling one of the GREATS what he should do in order to improve his game when he has the WORLDS BEST in any physical and tennis related specialty to choose from for help.

It's like me starting to tell Federer, "hmmm your toss is a little low on the serve, you don't have enough extension on your backhand ... and c'mon Roger ...WATCH THE BALL and HIT IT OUT IN FRONT".
Pfffffffffffff

ClarkC
01-13-2009, 06:40 AM
Arnold Schwarzenegger, or Arnold the Pig from the old TV show Green Acres? You did not specify. :)

Sentinel
01-13-2009, 06:55 AM
This is great. Just another internet wannabe telling one of the GREATS what he should do in order to improve his game when he has the WORLDS BEST in any physical and tennis related specialty to choose from for help.

It's like me starting to tell Federer, "hmmm your toss is a little low on the serve, you don't have enough extension on your backhand ... and c'mon Roger ...WATCH THE BALL and HIT IT OUT IN FRONT".
Pfffffffffffff
I;ve written him telling him to use a granny stick if he wants to get anywhere this year. I have yet to hear from him.

swedechris
01-13-2009, 07:04 AM
fed is in no need of bulk. he needs to work on speed , stamina and footwork if anything is missing there.. like running up hills + jumping rope. he doesnt need get any bigger. what he needs is a few lucky breaks when he has breakpoints and those he can make for himself . lay off the guy ..

slicefox
01-13-2009, 08:00 PM
lifting weight improves a person in all those areas. You have never lifted properly and routinely in your life, so you don't know what weight training does to you.

And for all of you who think that nadal is big and buff and federer is too, then I'll have to tell you that you have a small ****. I don't understand how kids think they can be pussies and still "own" at a sport. Get real. :shock:

Lendl and Federer Fan
01-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Arnold who, the Terminator? :wink:

Noveson
01-13-2009, 08:53 PM
lifting weight improves a person in all those areas. You have never lifted properly and routinely in your life, so you don't know what weight training does to you.

And for all of you who think that nadal is big and buff and federer is too, then I'll have to tell you that you have a small ****. I don't understand how kids think they can be pussies and still "own" at a sport. Get real. :shock:

Slice Fox
"Hey I totally agree with the Original Post. I"m also sick of these pussies who stand at the baseline and do the topspin hits exclusively. It's like if tennis was an imbalanced game."

"Want to do something useful? Lift weights."

There's more: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/search.php?searchid=4506769

Anybody else fast finding this tiring?



Anyway since I intend this post to actually be relevant. I feel like muscle mass is not going to help Federer. His agility and power are just going to go with age, it happens to everyone. Muscling the ball is not the answer for him.

Sentinel
01-15-2009, 02:21 AM
Federer has awesome arms -- check this pic out. Enuff of the bulking up advice, already.

http://www.freshnessmag.com/v4/wp-gallery/june_07/mlau_nike_pro_figures_final/3a.%20Roger%20Federer037.jpg

*Val*
01-15-2009, 03:47 AM
He shouldn't bodybuild and look to Arnold for inspiration, but I think it'd benefit him to take up some weightlifting. If he did squats, deadlifts and maybe cleans there's no question he would impove his strength and become more explosive.

There's no need to start curling because arms don't equal strength. Nadal has big arms which help, but he's probably quite strong overall.

l_gonzalez
01-15-2009, 03:56 AM
The real question should be:

Is Federer in the best possible physical shape HE can be in to play tennis?

My answer would be no. He could be in better shape. You can flame me all you want, but it's my personal opinion.

Nadal has squeezed every last ounce of physical strength and endurance from his body.

I know people are gonna say that they have different body types and what not, we've all heard it before.

The bottom line is that Federer could be in better physical shape.

caulcano
01-15-2009, 05:04 AM
The real question should be:

Is Federer in the best possible physical shape HE can be in to play tennis?

My answer would be no. He could be in better shape. You can flame me all you want, but it's my personal opinion.

Nadal has squeezed every last ounce of physical strength and endurance from his body.

I know people are gonna say that they have different body types and what not, we've all heard it before.

The bottom line is that Federer could be in better physical shape.

I agree......

l_gonzalez
01-15-2009, 05:07 AM
^^^^ Thank you!

West Coast Ace
01-15-2009, 06:13 PM
And as far as Davydenko, i don't think he's fast either, the poor guy looks like he has cancer.Stop, man! You're killing me! Nothing like a good 'cancer' blast! :)

Davydenko... He's still one of my fav players though.Nice of you. Cancer patients need all the compassion they can get...

... I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:Did you see the movie 'Hancock'? Go up to Rafa and call him a 'boyp*ssy' and 'poser' - I predict you will end up like the black guy in the prison scene. Or Rafa will rupture all his knee ligaments laughing at you...

slicefox
01-15-2009, 09:51 PM
Nobody fights like that in real life. It's a movie.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A bunch of couch potato kids telling me weight lifting doesn't help. If you are ripped yourself and can tell me that you've not experienced an improvement in your game as a result of lifting, then I'll give some credit to your argument. Otherwise, uh...no!

Sentinel
01-15-2009, 10:04 PM
Federer needs Chuck Norris as his coach.

oneleggedcardinal
01-15-2009, 10:18 PM
Did you see the movie 'Hancock'? Go up to Rafa and call him a 'boyp*ssy' and 'poser' - I predict you will end up like the black guy in the prison scene. Or Rafa will rupture all his knee ligaments laughing at you...

If I had a nickel for every time someone called me that...

paulorenzo
01-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Nobody fights like that in real life. It's a movie.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A bunch of couch potato kids telling me weight lifting doesn't help. If you are ripped yourself and can tell me that you've not experienced an improvement in your game as a result of lifting, then I'll give some credit to your argument. Otherwise, uh...no!

bro, weight lifting does help. i can rep 200 with ease and i can outpower all of the fast dudes that i play with easily. but it doesnt mean i can out play them. get it?

fed's game might get better if he conditions his fast twitch muscles and and muscle endurance. lean, not bulk. maxing out and adding bulk is not going to help. at all.

but above all, your arguement pretty much FAILED when you called nadal a poser. i bet you rafa can generate more racquet head speed than you, even while hitting a flat shot, all the while at the same time beating you at windsprints. probably even after squating 400 lbs. no one in their right mind questions nadal's physical explosiveness as a tennis player.


And in case you're wondering, I don't think Nadal is buff. Sorry, he's a poser, not ripped.:shock:

Pwned
01-15-2009, 10:56 PM
The real question should be:

Is Federer in the best possible physical shape HE can be in to play tennis?

My answer would be no. He could be in better shape. You can flame me all you want, but it's my personal opinion. Agreed.

Nadal has squeezed every last ounce of physical strength and endurance from his body. No.

I know people are gonna say that they have different body types and what not, we've all heard it before.

The bottom line is that Federer could be in better physical shape.
. .

Ambivalent
01-15-2009, 11:02 PM
Why should Federer be in better shape? He seems to play his best tennis as tournaments come to a close and during the later sets. I can't see how he can possibly move faster and as accurately as he is, and he hits hard enough. What more do you people want from a man

West Coast Ace
01-16-2009, 04:27 AM
Why should Federer be in better shape? He seems to play his best tennis as tournaments come to a close and during the later sets. I can't see how he can possibly move faster and as accurately as he is, and he hits hard enough. What more do you people want from a manWell said. He's won 13 majors; had a bad (by his amazing standards) '08 mostly because of mono (but still won 1, made the finals of 2 others, and the semi of the last), and now people think he needs to completely deviate from his usual plan.

He'd be insane to change his current training regiment. He generates plenty of racket speed when needed and has the leg strength to get around the court quite nicely.

Sir Andrew of Roddick
01-16-2009, 07:47 AM
he does all kinds of strength training including wrestling!! he may not be pumped, but every muscle he has is very well honed for his game.

anyone know how much fed weighs? he looks so light on court, bigger upper body would limit him. but people are more worried about whether he's still got the legs, i believe?

he's about 87 kilos I think.

aphex
01-16-2009, 07:59 AM
his forearm is weak as well as his backhand. They are accurate and precise, but weak.

hello
epic fail guy

slicefox
01-16-2009, 04:46 PM
epic fail.

is that all you kids know how to say?

federer has one of the best placement, accuracy, angle, technique, and volley skills out there. The only thing that others are better at is power. Think about it, if his skillset added some more power/weight then he could **** any tennis tournament.

aphex
01-16-2009, 05:00 PM
k
forearm=part of the anatomy
backhand=tennis stroke

btw, physical power has nothing/very little to do with power of shot. its about technique. example: justine henin

slicefox
01-21-2009, 11:00 PM
yes it does, more strength = more power.

Yes you can put a lot of speed on the ball if you're weak, but taht requires you to swing the racquet for a longer distance. If you're strong, you dont have to.

So the only way a weak kid can hit hard if he gets plenty of time to wind up and strike... on fast balls you don't have that kind of time, so you need strength to make up for it.

Also Federer is not the fastest on the court, look at how nadal saves the dropshots. If Federer could do that he would win many more slams hands down.

EDIT: Ye i mean forehand not forearm.

David L
01-22-2009, 12:22 AM
Federer needs Chuck Norris as his coach.
Chuck Norris is too good to coach or be coached. If there's any winning to be done, he'll do it himself.

Fedster
01-22-2009, 12:28 AM
It's very simple: Fed should get more muscular merely because it'll help recovery as he gets older, and it will help tame any injuries.

It will also give him confidence.

And it will make him move like he used to.

Andy Murray is a great example: get stronger, leaner ... and you get faster and more powerful.

Fed's already amazing, we all know this ... might as well help himself out by getting even fitter.

David L
01-22-2009, 01:11 AM
It's very simple: Fed should get more muscular merely because it'll help recovery as he gets older, and it will help tame any injuries.

It will also give him confidence.

And it will make him move like he used to.

Andy Murray is a great example: get stronger, leaner ... and you get faster and more powerful.

Fed's already amazing, we all know this ... might as well help himself out by getting even fitter.
Federer is fine as is. His record speaks for itself.

Muscle imbalance and stiffness create injuries. Having less muscle does not mean you are more injury prone. In fact, you are more likely to suffer from injuries the bigger you are. Listen to Taylor Dent, tennis is a lanky person's sport. He has suffered more than his fair share of injuries because of his muscular build. Federer has the ideal tennis body.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X_eUJuMuhtI

Federer is already very confident, so that's not an issue.

He already moves as well as he 'used too'.

Federer is already strong, lean, fast and powerful.

Federer is already incredibly fit. Who says there's any significant room for him to get fitter?

leonardtay
01-22-2009, 01:23 AM
Nadal is a big boy,As far as Fed,needs more lean muscle mass.String your sticks at 45lbs you'll have pace to.Weight training is in Fed's best interest.

Have you strung your sticks at that tension?.. it adds no appreciable power to your shots. I string at 48lbs, working my way down from 58lbs once upon a time. I find that it gives me more touch and feel but is harder to control for full swing strokes. I can still hit a massive shot and I feel with more spin with the low tension string job but getting the timing and contact point right becomes more difficult. With the tighter strung string job, I could hit with as much pace but less spin and touch for the same stroke as compared to when I string with lower tension. However, at the higher tension, I could direct groundstrokes with more consistency.

leonardtay
01-22-2009, 01:24 AM
The real question should be:

Is Federer in the best possible physical shape HE can be in to play tennis?

My answer would be no. He could be in better shape. You can flame me all you want, but it's my personal opinion.

Nadal has squeezed every last ounce of physical strength and endurance from his body.

I know people are gonna say that they have different body types and what not, we've all heard it before.

The bottom line is that Federer could be in better physical shape.

How so when (2008 unconditioned Roger aside) he seems to be the one that is less tired than any of his opponents at the end of a match?

leonardtay
01-22-2009, 01:27 AM
Nobody fights like that in real life. It's a movie.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A bunch of couch potato kids telling me weight lifting doesn't help. If you are ripped yourself and can tell me that you've not experienced an improvement in your game as a result of lifting, then I'll give some credit to your argument. Otherwise, uh...no!

Weight lifting to build strength is something that all athletes do to a certain extent and I am sure Roger does it as well... weight lifting to get ripped is a different issue altogether.

leonardtay
01-22-2009, 01:29 AM
yes it does, more strength = more power.

Yes you can put a lot of speed on the ball if you're weak, but taht requires you to swing the racquet for a longer distance. If you're strong, you dont have to.

So the only way a weak kid can hit hard if he gets plenty of time to wind up and strike... on fast balls you don't have that kind of time, so you need strength to make up for it.

Also Federer is not the fastest on the court, look at how nadal saves the dropshots. If Federer could do that he would win many more slams hands down.

EDIT: Ye i mean forehand not forearm.

Has anyone by any chance accused you of muscling your shots?

Rickson
01-22-2009, 01:43 AM
So I guess 4 straight years of dominance means he did something wrong. You gotta love these couch coaches.

slicefox
01-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Well now he's not the number 1 anymore, so it means he's got something going wrong.

I love the logic "federer is good, it means he can't improve and he shouldn't try to improve". Just because he won a lot of slams doesn't mean he's in the best shape a human can be.

Federer has room for improvement. You're dumb if you think being world no.1 means you're the best a human can be.

Muscle imbalance and stiffness create injuries. Having less muscle does not mean you are more injury prone. In fact, you are more likely to suffer from injuries the bigger you are. Listen to Taylor Dent, tennis is a lanky person's sport. He has suffered more than his fair share of injuries because of his muscular build.

So are you working on bench pressing those 20lb dumbbells?


Federer is already incredibly fit. Who says there's any significant room for him to get fitter?

I say that.

Fed Kennedy
01-22-2009, 02:19 PM
Federer and Nadal both need to hit the gym if they are going to compete with Triple H at Wimbledon 09

swedechris
01-22-2009, 02:27 PM
federer should look to arnie for inspiration like nadal would look to donald young...

slicefox
01-22-2009, 05:05 PM
Federer and Nadal both need to hit the gym if they are going to compete with Triple H at Wimbledon 09

Exactly what I'm saying. Federer should hit the gym (more than he does), nadal needs to hit the gym, I need to hit the gym, and you all need to hit the gym. Only good can come from it.

How can anyone disagree?

djsiva
01-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Exactly what I'm saying. Federer should hit the gym (more than he does), nadal needs to hit the gym, I need to hit the gym, and you all need to hit the gym. Only good can come from it.

How can anyone disagree?

Too much weights makes you tight. You lose quick racquet acceleration and reflex reaction time on returns and volleys. Also muscle is denser than fat, so adding weight could slow him down. Working out too much, could lead to too much excess useless muscle.

Also too much weights could stress crucial joints like the wrist. I think Agassi's obsession with trying to bench 500 lbs did some damage to his wrists.

So bad could also come out of it. Tennis players should hit the gyms, but not too much.

Rickson
01-22-2009, 08:08 PM
Too much weights makes you tight? Where did you come up with such nonsense? Are you talking about having too much muscle? If you are, then I have news for you. Not only are you incorrect, but there's something else that makes you "tight" as in moving slower. It's called bodyfat.

slicefox
01-23-2009, 11:24 PM
That's why you stretch between sets when you lift.

Also you know that Arnold in his prime weighted 242lb. I know kids who weigh more than that, and they try to throw in the "muscle weighs more than fat" BS at me when i call them fat. wow...

Federer could lift and gain muscle to his limit (without steroids) and he'll probably be 2kg heavier than now. And all the extra strength wouldn't make him faster? wow lol.

The comment earlier obviously came from somebody who has never followed a lifting program, and is making excuses for it.:shock:

dh003i
01-23-2009, 11:40 PM
The real question should be:

Is Federer in the best possible physical shape HE can be in to play tennis?

My answer would be no. He could be in better shape. You can flame me all you want, but it's my personal opinion.

Nadal has squeezed every last ounce of physical strength and endurance from his body.

I know people are gonna say that they have different body types and what not, we've all heard it before.

The bottom line is that Federer could be in better physical shape.

What is that based on? Your opinion? His appearance? Any facts in there?

If anything, Federer is in better tennis shape than Nadal. I have never seen Federer look tired on the court (outside of maybe when he had mono). He's fresh at the end of 5-set matches. Take his 5-setter against Nadal at Rome several years ago; Nadal was gassed, Federer clearly could have gone on.

dh003i
01-23-2009, 11:48 PM
Exactly what I'm saying. Federer should hit the gym (more than he does), nadal needs to hit the gym, I need to hit the gym, and you all need to hit the gym. Only good can come from it.

How can anyone disagree?

Before making blind an unconsidered recommendations, it would help to know what Federer does with his time, how much he trains in weightlifting and various other ways. You see, there are only 24 hours in a day. Doing more strength training means less of other training.

Unless you're saying he should just increase the length of his daily training period. But there is such a thing as over-training; your body can only respond to so much, beyond that, it just gets broken.

And who's to say that time spent not training -- i.e., time enjoying himself, his life, time with his girlfriend -- doesn't help his tennis? One's general emotional well-being certainly affects one's professional life, and in the case of players, how well they can bounce back from difficult losses.

In short, the problem with people saying "Federer should do this, Federer should do that," is that they don't know what the hell they are talking about. Maybe they know about the benefits of weight-training. But they don't know if doing more weight-training will benefit Federer, because they don't know how much time he devotes to training, and how many different kinds of training he does. In short, only his fitness coaches and consultants can offer any kind of reasonable advice on that.

joeri888
01-24-2009, 07:02 AM
Hey, I honestly think that the problem with Federer these days could easily be fixed if he starts pumping up. Federer never had any physique, the only thing that saved him was his agility and coordination... which are good, but if he puts on a few pounds, it would compliment him nicely.

I'm not saying you have to be Mr. Olympia to play tennis, but strength definitely helps. It would help him move his torso faster, and his wrist/forearm and all that. Mix that in with the excellent federer coordiation and technique, and you'll get yourself a few more slams.

Anyone agree?
The only think that saves him was his coordination and agility? 1) you must be freaking kidding me, Federer's always been a great athlete who can produce immense raquet-speed and is really really quick. 2) How is it that ONLY coordination saves him, isn't coordination and technique is what tennis is all about in the first place and can a big pumped body only save you? You make it sound ridiculous like it's some sort of bodybuilding with bonuspoints if you can hit a tennisball.

Federer's playing good tennis and there's absolutely nothing wrong with him. He'll win 1 slam this year and 1 next year and that's fine. Why start working out like an idiot at this point in his career?

Rickson
01-24-2009, 09:55 AM
That's why you stretch between sets when you lift.



You've got to be kidding! No true weightlifter stretches in between sets! I didn't bench 335 by stretching in between sets. That kind of advice will get someone hurt. If you want to static stretch, you do it after you're done lifting or after a match in tennis terms.

David L
01-24-2009, 10:17 AM
Well now he's not the number 1 anymore, so it means he's got something going wrong.
So by this logic, everyone who is not No.1 is doing something wrong? Given there can only be one No.1 at any given time, this does not make much logical sense. You could have 100 people doing the same and maximum they possibly can, yet only one of them would be correct while the other 99 were wrong.

I love the logic "federer is good, it means he can't improve and he shouldn't try to improve". Just because he won a lot of slams doesn't mean he's in the best shape a human can be.
Who says he's not trying to improve? How do you know what kind of shape he's in? The fact that he consistently outlasts the rest of the tour over an entire year would suggest he's one of the fittest players out there.

Federer has room for improvement. You're dumb if you think being world no.1 means you're the best a human can be.
You're dumb if you think you know anything about Federer's level of fitness without knowledge of his fitness tests, particularly when he consistently outlasts the rest of the tour.

I say that.
You can say anything you want, but it does not mean you know anything about how fit Federer is, which you clearly don't.

slicefox
01-25-2009, 07:23 PM
"lasting" long doesn't mean you are a beast of an athlete who works out. It means you're born with it. I know kids who play world of warcraft all day and eat pizza, and they can run a 6 minute mile. Your point?

And I know he's doing some lifts, but I don't see any good results so he's doing something wrong, i.e. not lifting right. He should have a six pack, then I'll call him good shape.

Rickson
01-25-2009, 07:30 PM
Federer has a fitness instructor and so do many pros. Are you applying for the job, fox? If you are, you need to update yourself on static stretching.

do not static stretch before a match (http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/article027.htm)

Docalex007
01-25-2009, 08:03 PM
yes it does, more strength = more power.

Yes you can put a lot of speed on the ball if you're weak, but taht requires you to swing the racquet for a longer distance. If you're strong, you dont have to.

So the only way a weak kid can hit hard if he gets plenty of time to wind up and strike... on fast balls you don't have that kind of time, so you need strength to make up for it.

Also Federer is not the fastest on the court, look at how nadal saves the dropshots. If Federer could do that he would win many more slams hands down.

EDIT: Ye i mean forehand not forearm.

No, I'm sorry my friend. That's not correct at all. More power equals a faster acceleration of your swing, which is at its optimal when there is just the right balance between fast twitch muscle fiber density and size of the arm and core strength of your body for rotation contributions to the acceleration.

I know you're probably no physicist, but Force = mass X acceleration ... now, the MASS is fixed, as it's just the mass of the tennis racquet. Therefore the force of your swing and therefore the POWER of your shot is dictated by the amount of acceleration of the racquet you're able to produce.

Now... the ability to accelerate the racquet comes from your fast twitch muscle fibers. The denser these are, the more acceleration and explosive power you will be able to generate. Because muscle mass is heavier thus denser than fat, too much muscle mass actually slows down your ability to accelerate your arm. We all should know this. Look at Bruce Lee... his arm movements were way way faster than a big bulky guy's arms.

Also, strength doesn't necessarily show up in the size of the muscle. Also very important. A very lean, dense muscle with dense fast twitch muscle fibers can be found on what looks to be a thin, scrawny arm.

Hence, you are wrong. But many people don't understand the physics of tennis. Remember that you hit the tennis ball with your string bed and that the string bed is attached to the frame. It's all about how fast you are moving this string bed before it contacts the ball.

slicefox
01-25-2009, 11:05 PM
My friend, you fail at physics. You cannot use Newton's second law for this type of modeling. Swinging a racquet is angular movement, thus defined by the equation:

Torque (greek letter tou) = Rotational Inertia ( I ) x angular acceleration (greek letter alpha)

Also, the mass you add to your arm from strength training is negligible, if you have ever lifted, you would know. Even if you do want to consider the few extra grams you add to the bicep/tricep/deltoid muscle groups, most of that mass is located towards the pivot of rotation, therefore it is not adding much to the rotational inertia. However, the strength you add from the training is significant, potentially doubling or tripling your force, and thereby doubling or tripling your torque (length of arm stays constant).

And by strength lifting I wasn't even talking about bicep/tricep, i was talking about leg lifts and other lower body lifts - squats, legpress, cleans, hamstring curls, calf raises, etc. And also core exerciese like the abdominals and obliques. Weight training doesn't mean curling a dumbbell to get big biceps, thats just what you did in back in highschool. Actually, core muscles and leg muscles are more useful in sports than arm muscles, which play a smaller part during the match.


And Rick, I have never suggested stretching before a match, I said you need to stretch between lifting sets, not tennis sets. Say you want to work out chest, you first warm up with cardio, then you do some pushups, then stretch a bit, then bench press (with dumbbells) then stretch, then bench press again with dumbbells (called 2nd set of lift) then stretch, etc.

Docalex007
01-26-2009, 06:10 AM
My friend, you fail at physics. You cannot use Newton's second law for this type of modeling. Swinging a racquet is angular movement, thus defined by the equation:

Torque (greek letter tou) = Rotational Inertia ( I ) x angular acceleration (greek letter alpha)

Also, the mass you add to your arm from strength training is negligible, if you have ever lifted, you would know. Even if you do want to consider the few extra grams you add to the bicep/tricep/deltoid muscle groups, most of that mass is located towards the pivot of rotation, therefore it is not adding much to the rotational inertia. However, the strength you add from the training is significant, potentially doubling or tripling your force, and thereby doubling or tripling your torque (length of arm stays constant).

And by strength lifting I wasn't even talking about bicep/tricep, i was talking about leg lifts and other lower body lifts - squats, legpress, cleans, hamstring curls, calf raises, etc. And also core exerciese like the abdominals and obliques. Weight training doesn't mean curling a dumbbell to get big biceps, thats just what you did in back in highschool. Actually, core muscles and leg muscles are more useful in sports than arm muscles, which play a smaller part during the match.


And Rick, I have never suggested stretching before a match, I said you need to stretch between lifting sets, not tennis sets. Say you want to work out chest, you first warm up with cardio, then you do some pushups, then stretch a bit, then bench press (with dumbbells) then stretch, then bench press again with dumbbells (called 2nd set of lift) then stretch, etc.

I'm sorry. But apparently there's been a misunderstanding here. First of all, I don't fail at physics as I am about to gain a degree in it.

Secondly, if you knew your stuff then you would know the Torque formula is a Force. And the Force formula is always mass X acceleration. Hence all torque is, is a Force with a different vector and magnitude because of the different mass and acceleration vectors.

Hence, this is an example of you NOT understanding physics and being quite pedantic. Torque is a Force and is also a mass X acceleration.

Thirdly, your simplification of "more strength = more power" is wrong as you should know that the strongest individuals in absolute terms are massive in size. Look at olympic power lifting for example. Therefore, what we really need here is a balance between keeping mass down and having a high fast twitch muscle fiber density. The muscle fibers used in explosive movements. These do add to the muscle mass but not necessarily the SIZE. Which means, Federer's seemingly scrawny arms may just be packed with dense muscle which makes them more massive then they appear. Remember size does NOT equal mass. The density is what we're after.

I'm in the gym all the time, I know my stuff. I used to do both strength and body building. The expression "more strength = more power" is incorrect as you want the optimal balance between strength and mass, and not just brute strength... making it sound like the strongest humans are also the ones who can generate the most explosive power. No way.

diggler
01-26-2009, 06:36 AM
I heard Rafa's hits rotate 20% faster than anyone else on the tour. How can you compete with that? Imagine a runner with 20% longer stride or 20% more strides.

Rickson
01-26-2009, 06:50 AM
Fox, stretching in between sets degrades muscle performance or didn't you read? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that stretching in between sets is the same thing as stretching just before a lift, but then again, you're no genius.

slicefox
01-26-2009, 08:11 PM
Next time you are in a gym lifting (if that time ever comes) try stretching in between your sets. It's not bad in any way, I've done it for 4 years and I have something to show for it.

And defining torque as just a force is complete fail. I urge you to pick up some books, then sit and think for a 30 minutes. It will help you if you plan to major in physics.

Also, note that muscles are still mostly water, so their density is somewhere between 2-4 grams/mL. Don't give me the BS, "yeah, federer has dense muscle so he's powerful but not big"... his muscles aren't dense like uranium.

Fast twitch muscles are something you are born with, and working out a fast twitch muscle group causes the cells to enlarge, therefore they can contract with a higher tension. It's not like you ruin the muscle structure if you lift a weight..

But clearly most here are too ignorant about weight training, biology, and physics.

Rickson
01-26-2009, 09:11 PM
If that time ever comes? I used to work in gyms, my inexperienced friend. Here's a low quality video of me benching 275.


275 lbs. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=236680)

slicefox
01-26-2009, 09:34 PM
And when you do that, you just jump into it and start bench pressing? Wow man, I want to see how flexible you are.

And bar bench doesn't impress me, if you are for real you would do bench press using dumbbells. Also prove you have a six pack and then we'll talk.

Rickson
01-26-2009, 09:39 PM
No, I did a set of 225 just before that. Yes, 225 is my warmup weight and no, I never stretch before or during sets. I save the stretching for after the workout.