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Spider
01-10-2009, 09:10 AM
Murray could be the next GOAT

Lets see, he is a complete package at the moment with no weakness at all - great first serve, consistent forehand, excellent double handed backhand (with one of the best slices in the game), fantastic mover on the court, has tremendous feel at the net, and has bulked up a lot in the off season.

It's a matter of time before he starts dominating the complete tour. I'm sure most would agree that that he is the man to beat on the hard courts now and will definitely win lots of slams on them. Wimbledon will be something he should win (multiple times as well) because I don't see a reason why his game can't translate into grass with his variety.

I think the question is whether he can win the RG, which will be the big question in most people's mind. I would love to see Murray - Nadal face off at the clay events this year to see where exactly is Murray on clay (I wont be surprised if Murray is the man who ends up stopping Nadal's reign at RG). It's exciting times ahead for this extremely talented player, and I would feel honoured to watch his career grow over the years. :)

miyagi
01-10-2009, 09:20 AM
Murray could be the next GOAT

Lets see, he is a complete package at the moment with no weakness at all - great first serve, consistent forehand, excellent double handed backhand (with one of the best slices in the game), fantastic mover on the court, has tremendous feel at the net, and has bulked up a lot in the off season.

It's a matter of time before he starts dominating the complete tour. I'm sure most would agree that that he is the man to beat on the hard courts now and will definitely win lots of slams on them. Wimbledon will be something he should win (multiple times as well) because I don't see a reason why his game can't translate into grass with his variety.

I think the question is whether he can win the RG, which will be the big question in most people's mind. I would love to see Murray - Nadal face off at the clay events this year to see where exactly is Murray on clay (I wont be surprised if Murray is the man who ends up stopping Nadal's reign at RG). It's exciting times ahead for this extremely talented player, and I would feel honoured to watch his career grow over the years. :)

LOL...not being funny but I couldn't disagree more.

Have you not been watching his 2nd serve? What about when he was self destructing in so many matches not even 6 months ago, I think when the pressure is on he this behaviour will show it's ugly head again.

How many great players have we seen that have come and gone and not been able to win a slam? Nalbandian anyone??

Look at Safin people thought once he had won the USO (notice that he had actually won a slam) people thought he would change and dominate the game. He didn't for many reasons...........

His game will not touch Nadal on clay...or he would have shown more promise on clay before he has always played well on HC but never really showed up on clay at all!

Plus we have yet to see who is a bad match up for Murray and can consistantly cause him problems....

Spider
01-10-2009, 09:24 AM
LOL...not being funny but I couldn't disagree more.

Have you not been watching his 2nd serve? What about when he was self destructing in so many matches not even 6 months ago, I think when the pressure is on he this behaviour will show it's ugly head again.

How many great players have we seen that have come and gone and not been able to win a slam? Nalbandian anyone??

Look at Safin people thought once he had won the USO (notice that he had actually won a slam) people thought he would change and dominate the game. He didn't for many reasons...........

His game will not touch Nadal on clay...or he would have shown more promise on clay before he has always played well on HC but never really showed up on clay at all!

Plus we have yet to see who is a bad match up for Murray and can consistantly cause him problems....

It's scary to think how much he has improved over the last 6 months or so and continues to improve at an alarming rate, so I wouldn't rule that out either.

On the hard courts I don't think there are many players that could trouble this Murray. He seems to be in his own league at the moment.

Breaker
01-10-2009, 09:24 AM
Murray bandwagon in full force now..

miyagi
01-10-2009, 09:30 AM
It's scary to think how much he has improved over the last 6 months or so and continues to improve at an alarming rate, so I wouldn't rule that out either.

On the hard courts I don't think there are many players that could trouble this Murray. He seems to be in his own league at the moment.

Hell Yeah he has improved but noticed he didn't win the USO and what if he doesn't win A.O what then? The longer he goes on without winning a slam the more pressure will build.

Plus he is about to have THE most physically and mentally challenging season in his career, how will he deal with it?

Lots of questions to be answered only time will tell. I'm convinced he will win one slam let alone multiple......but for sure he has the game and skill to win slams....

oneleggedcardinal
01-10-2009, 09:38 AM
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/offthetee21/bandwagon.jpg

Great player? Yes.
Is he going to have a great year? Probably.
Is there any indication that he could be the next GOAT? Not as of yet.

Spider
01-10-2009, 09:39 AM
Hell Yeah he has improved but noticed he didn't win the USO and what if he doesn't win A.O what then? The longer he goes on without winning a slam the more pressure will build.

Plus he is about to have THE most physically and mentally challenging season in his career, how will he deal with it?

Lots of questions to be answered only time will tell. I'm convinced he will win one slam let alone multiple......but for sure he has the game and skill to win slams....

That was his first slam final, nerves played a huge part in that loss. This guy seems to be playing at some other level at the moment so these nerves wont bother him this time (should he reach the final).

The way he treated a player of Roddick's caliber was very similar to how Fed used to play Roddick in his hey days. Thats GOAT stuff!

Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.

TennezSport
01-10-2009, 09:40 AM
I am riding the fence on this one but I do believe that Murray has the talent and ability to do it. The biggest question for him is can he keep his composure in the GS tournys.

He has the best variety of shot selection and great hands at the net. He is very fit, confident and covers the court as well as Rafa. Spin will not hurt him and he has no fear of anyone at the moment. He even has confidence on clay having spent a great deal of time on the dirt.

Comparing him to Nalbandian and Safin is not fair as both of those talented players lost out due to partying and Andy has so far shown that he is a hard worker; unlike Nalby or Safin.

Regarding Andys second serve, it is his weakest shot but he is improving it as we saw this week. It's no worse that Rafa's first or second serve on average, so I think he will be a great danger this year. Really depends on his mind. 2K9 will be very interesting.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

NickC
01-10-2009, 09:43 AM
Murray bandwagon in full force now..

Ugh, you're right. 4 wins over Fed and the bandwagon is at full speed. When will it stop? I hope Murray's form dips so this bandwagon has it's wheels cut off.

miyagi
01-10-2009, 09:44 AM
That was his first slam final, nerves played a huge part in that loss. This guy seems to be playing at some other level at the moment so these nerves wont bother him this time (should he reach the final).

The way he treated a player of Roddick's caliber was very similar to how Fed used to play Roddick in his hey days. Thats GOAT stuff!

Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.

I dont think he was nervous he just got beat easily it wasn't like when Djoko played federer and actually had set points and played them badly and SHOULD have won that final.

As for the Roddick thing....I think it's safe to say that Roddick is past his best......and every dog has his day to say that is GOAT material, it's just one match?

Nope he can't beat Nadal on clay....come on he has shown NOTHING on clay are we to believe that he will go from zero to hero in one season on clay?

Telepatic
01-10-2009, 09:45 AM
.............................................

http://www.claybennett.com/images/archivetoons/bandwagon.jpg

http://www.amanandamouse.com/blogspot/bandwagon.jpg

http://www.philipsparke.com/images/Bandwagonpic0001.jpg

Mansewerz
01-10-2009, 09:45 AM
What about Tsonga? The guys got all the skills.

What about Safin? One of the most talented players to ever play. What happened to him?

maximo
01-10-2009, 09:46 AM
In reality, Murray with the way hes playing should win one GS this year. If he doesnt, i will be very surprised indeed.

Spider
01-10-2009, 09:54 AM
I dont think he was nervous he just got beat easily it wasn't like when Djoko played federer and actually had set points and played them badly and SHOULD have won that final.

As for the Roddick thing....I think it's safe to say that Roddick is past his best......and every dog has his day to say that is GOAT material, it's just one match?

Nope he can't beat Nadal on clay....come on he has shown NOTHING on clay are we to believe that he will go from zero to hero in one season on clay?

I think it was nerves and his semi final match with Nadal, which lasted 2 days (and was very physical match), which had its implications for the final. Lets see what happens at this year's AO to know exactly how good can Murray be in the best of 5 scenario.

Roddick maybe past his prime, but passing him left and right was very similar to Fed (I know that doesnt qualify for GOAT but shows the extreme talent that this kid possesses)

You're right Nadal on clay may be a very different ball game this year, but considering the way this guy has improved, I would still like to see where exactly he stands and if he takes him to the limit then we can have our answers.

EPaps
01-10-2009, 10:00 AM
he needs to win a slam first, but he's going in the right direction.

miyagi
01-10-2009, 10:06 AM
I think it was nerves and his semi final match with Nadal, which lasted 2 days (and was very physical match), which had its implications for the final. Lets see what happens at this year's AO to know exactly how good can Murray be in the best of 5 scenario.

Roddick maybe past his prime, but passing him left and right was very similar to Fed (I know that doesnt qualify for GOAT but shows the extreme talent that this kid possesses)

You're right Nadal on clay may be a very different ball game this year, but considering the way this guy has improved, I would still like to see where exactly he stands and if he takes him to the limit then we can have our answers.

Nerves generally show in a match, double faults, clipping the net alot, missed timed hitting etc etc....He didn't show any of that I think he was just out played. Plus he wasnt tired so I dont think that counts either? But just my opinion.

Sometimes you just lose to a better player?

Difference between Fed and Murray was Fed was spanking Roddick when he was on fire...see A.O 05.....but yep I agree he has emense talent but so do about 50 other players on the ATP.

He needs to convert some of that talent into slams and titles etc....

Well considering how long the clay season is and how dominant Nadal is over the past 3/4 seasons....I doubt Murray could beat him, he would have to hit insane winners all over the place and to do that for a best of 5 set, not going to happen. Federer, Djoko >>> Murray on clay.

TennezSport
01-10-2009, 10:12 AM
Ive fallen off the wagon and can't get up :twisted:

Let him win one or two or more slams first, please, but I believe, I do believe, I do believe :wink:

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

Gorecki
01-10-2009, 10:13 AM
http://www.dave-matthews-band.us/photos/band%202.jpg

+

http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50294676/Bronco_Wood_Frame_Wagon.jpg

=

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/03/28/spider_wideweb__470x356,0.jpg

edmondsm
01-10-2009, 10:19 AM
Bring this thread back if Murray has won 8 or 9 slams over then next 4 years.

Sentinel
01-10-2009, 10:21 AM
band ... wagon .. spider ... LOL

S H O W S T O P P E R !
01-10-2009, 10:28 AM
His second serve is bad and I still think he isn't mentally strong enough to be a possible GOAT.

edmondsm
01-10-2009, 10:34 AM
His second serve is bad and I still think he isn't mentally strong enough to be a possible GOAT.

Also, he has not won any slams or ever been #1 in the rankings. It's tough to be the GOAT when you haven't done either of those things.

GasquetGOAT
01-10-2009, 10:45 AM
http://www3.rogerscup.com/men/english/_data/images/AndyMurray1.jpg NEXT to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00670/goat-underpants_670586n.jpg

SirBlend12
01-10-2009, 11:03 AM
ALL ABOARD!!! Last call for all ticket holders!

thejoe
01-10-2009, 11:05 AM
ALL ABOARD!!! Last call for all ticket holders!

Where is this bandwagon stopping at? Because my ticket only lets me go as far as Dreamland, I couldn't afford the ticket to Unlikely Station.

plain jane
01-10-2009, 11:06 AM
these threads are so hiliarious!! wasn't this the same with djokovic last year? Why are some ppl so obsessed with crowning someone GOAT?

tintin
01-10-2009, 11:15 AM
GOAT?:rolleyes:
u have got 2 be kidding,right?
this guy has won his titles on nothing but hard courts(just like Blake;the only difference is he's won MS and made a slam final unlike Blake:lol:) and you're talking about him being the GOAT?:shock:
he has yet to win on grass and especially on clay
Murray thinks he'll drop shot his way out of matches like he did against Nadal who ran them down 1 after the other.
There are 10's of players out there who can beat Murray on clay
and until he makes the 2nd week at ALL 4 majors and wins on ALL surfaces and surpasses Federer and Sampras slam record.hell the only thing Nadal surpasses Federer is at being the GCCPOAT(greatest clay court player of all time);Murray ain't horse manure!:roll:

miyagi
01-10-2009, 12:02 PM
GOAT?:rolleyes:
u have got 2 be kidding,right?
this guy has won his titles on nothing but hard courts(just like Blake;the only difference is he's won MS and made a slam final unlike Blake:lol:) and you're talking about him being the GOAT?:shock:
he has yet to win on grass and especially on clay
Murray thinks he'll drop shot his way out of matches like he did against Nadal who ran them down 1 after the other.
There are 10's of players out there who can beat Murray on clay
and until he makes the 2nd week at ALL 4 majors and wins on ALL surfaces and surpasses Federer and Sampras slam record.hell the only thing Nadal surpasses Federer is at being the GCCPOAT(greatest clay court player of all time);Murray ain't horse manure!:roll:

I agree....Murray has shown nothing on clay has he even reached a QF of MS on clay.....??

Nadal is WAY closer to being GOAT and there is a HUGE gulf between him and being considered GOAT candidate. But at least Nadal has won wimbledon and won multiple MS on HC's not to mention his F.O titles.

People are taking this Murray hype tooooo far!

TennezSport
01-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Murray is the New KID in town and everyone always loves the New KID in town.

Sorry, I just had to :twisted:

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

S H O W S T O P P E R !
01-10-2009, 12:28 PM
Where is this bandwagon stopping at? Because my ticket only lets me go as far as Dreamland, I couldn't afford the ticket to Unlikely Station.

It goes nowhere.... kind of like this thread.

msc886
01-10-2009, 12:51 PM
That was his first slam final, nerves played a huge part in that loss. This guy seems to be playing at some other level at the moment so these nerves wont bother him this time (should he reach the final).

The way he treated a player of Roddick's caliber was very similar to how Fed used to play Roddick in his hey days. Thats GOAT stuff!

Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.

No. Murray got outplayed in that final. Federer at the time was in pretty good form. Compare that to Fed when he won his first slam final.

Roddick is well past his prime. Fed played Roddick when he was closer to his prime or when he was on fire. e.g USO 06 and 07, AO07, MC 06 etc.

Beating Nadal on clay. Nadal's 2008 RG form was unstoppable. Murray cannot match that just like Djokovic and Federer has failed in the past.

Oui, c'est moi.
01-10-2009, 01:30 PM
He certainly looks like a goat.

TheTruth
01-10-2009, 01:44 PM
I think nerves played a big part in his final debut. Some people come out like blockbusters and some freeze like a deer caught in headlights. No one knows how they'll react to reaching such a precipice.

There's also the backlash that often occurs after someone finally snags that big one. It doesn't happen to everyone, but it does to some.

Murray has a lot to prove at this point. Can he hold his nerve in a grand slam final? He didn't the last time.

Can he beat the big boys in best of five? He hasn't done that but once.

Can he go further in all the slams? We don't know that either.

I'd say we need to see how 2009 goes before even mentioning him and goat in the same sentence.

thejoe
01-10-2009, 01:54 PM
I think nerves played a big part in his final debut. Some people come out like blockbusters and some freeze like a deer caught in headlights. No one knows how they'll react to reaching such a precipe.

There's also the backlash that often occurs after someone finally snags that big one. It doesn't happen to everyone, but it does to some.

Murray has a lot to prove at this point. Can he hold his nerve in a grand slam final? He didn't the last time.

Can he beat the big boys in best of five? He hasn't done that but once.

Can he go further in all the slams? We don't know that either.

I'd say we need to see how 2009 goes before even mentioning him and goat in the same sentence.

I think you've got a point. Before, he was just emerging, and had little pressure on him. No-one expected him to win that US Open final, and he had nothing to lose. Suddenly he is the favourite. I wonder how he will handle it.

miyagi
01-10-2009, 02:11 PM
No. Murray got outplayed in that final. Federer at the time was in pretty good form. Compare that to Fed when he won his first slam final.

Roddick is well past his prime. Fed played Roddick when he was closer to his prime or when he was on fire. e.g USO 06 and 07, AO07, MC 06 etc.

Beating Nadal on clay. Nadal's 2008 RG form was unstoppable. Murray cannot match that just like Djokovic and Federer has failed in the past.

All this talk of Murray being nervous is nonsense....he simply got outplayed and outclassed....

When and if Murray becomes a threat on ALL surfaces should we revisit this thread.....for now it's very premature talk.

JeMar
01-10-2009, 02:17 PM
Well, this is certainly about 5 years too early.

TheTruth
01-10-2009, 02:22 PM
I think you've got a point. Before, he was just emerging, and had little pressure on him. No-one expected him to win that US Open final, and he had nothing to lose. Suddenly he is the favourite. I wonder how he will handle it.

It will be interesting. Although he's been talked about for ages, last year was the first time he actually stepped up to the plate. Now, he's lumped in with the big boys and expected to perform at a very high level week in and week out. Let's see how he handles the pressure. He's got the game and the talent, this year and the next will prove whether or not he has the heart.

thejoe
01-10-2009, 02:25 PM
It will be interesting. Although he's been talked about for ages, last year was the first time he actually stepped up to the plate. Now, he's lumped in with the big boys and expected to perform at a very high level week in and week out. Let's see how he handles the pressure. He's got the game and the talent, this year and the next will prove whether or not he has the heart.

He does seem to have the mental toughness required which will help. I hope he isn't the next Nalbandian or Gasquet. Someone with enormous, but sadly unfulfilled potential.

egn
01-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Murray could be the next GOAT

Lets see, he is a complete package at the moment with no weakness at all - great first serve, consistent forehand, excellent double handed backhand (with one of the best slices in the game), fantastic mover on the court, has tremendous feel at the net, and has bulked up a lot in the off season. (yea horrible second serve, mentally very shaky, and his volleying is not as great as you make it.)

It's a matter of time before he starts dominating the complete tour. (now I guess we don't watch the same tour, since your tour must no consist of this clay court season where Murray has done next to nothing..) I'm sure most would agree (key word being most) that that he is the man to beat on the hard courts now(this is kind of funny why should i consider him over Djokovic or Federer becuase he is hot at the moment, no slam win yet.) and will definitely win lots of slams on them (a bit bold for a man who lost to a falling star on a hard court slam in straight sets.). Wimbledon will be something he should win (multiple times as well) because I don't see a reason why his game can't translate into grass with his variety.(I like this you assume he can translate his game onto grass, tons of hardcourt greats couldn't and to assume he wins it multiple times. He has to deal with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who are all far better grass court players than him along with tons of other guys like Ancic and Tsogna who I feel would do better on grass than Murray because Tsogna has more serve and volley elements. Let us see Murray translate his game first.)

I think the question is whether he can win the RG(at this moment i say a definite no he has no clay court game), which will be the big question in most people's mind(finally agree). I would love to see Murray - Nadal face off at the clay events this year to see where exactly is Murray on clay (I wont be surprised if Murray is the man who ends up stopping Nadal's reign at RG) (now that just made me laugh, you have got to be kidding me...btw it did happen and he lost 6-3, 6-2 at Hamburg, he also got trashed by Djokovic 6-0 6-4 on clay. Murray ending Nadal's reign at RG, unless Djokovic, Federer, Monfolis and all the other rising clay stars in the next ten years die and the two play into their 30's and Nadal manages to play through knee injuries then yes..until then no. However if Murray manages to do this and does it this year, hell I will crown Murray GOAT as in order to do that he will need to be the GOAT. However odds of that happening are very very very slim.) It's exciting times ahead for this extremely talented player, and I would feel honoured(bets on you being british? are you?) to watch his career grow over the years. :)

Murray is going to be a great player, goat ha far from it. I see Murray falling in Becker territory or Edberg territory. No GOAT vote for me.

Morrissey
01-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Why not? He's already the best slamless GOAT player. All this bandwagon hopping is funny. Last January Joker was going to leapfrog Nadal to #1 and he would stay #2. How funny it turned out in the end huh? Now Joker is not even mentioned in this forum anymore except for Pro Racquets & Gear section with pics of his new Head stick.

SempreSami
01-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Imagine what it would've been like if this forum existed in the '80s.

"Borg is done eh lost to Mac"
"No u he's still the GOAT"
"Im srs eh has retired lol"
"oic kk lol"

"have you seen this Becker kid? future GOAT"
"no wai dats gonna be Cash lol"

"dis Agassi kid dresses liek a gurl, lol at his huge racquet lol Sampras FTW"
"No wai Sampras is 2 hairee to be GOAT"

Gorecki
01-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Imagine what it would've been like if this forum existed in the '80s.

"Borg is done eh lost to Mac"
"No u he's still the GOAT"
"Im srs eh has retired lol"
"oic kk lol"

"have you seen this Becker kid? future GOAT"
"no wai dats gonna be Cash lol"

"dis Agassi kid dresses liek a gurl, lol at his huge racquet lol Sampras FTW"
"No wai Sampras is 2 hairee to be GOAT"

what about that talented bum mecir? could be goat? no way... meltdown!

Mansewerz
01-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Why not? He's already the best slamless GOAT player. All this bandwagon hopping is funny. Last January Joker was going to leapfrog Nadal to #1 and he would stay #2. How funny it turned out in the end huh? Now Joker is not even mentioned in this forum anymore except for Pro Racquets & Gear section with pics of his new Head stick.

Yea seriously. We need to stop jumping on the bandwagon so easily.

The only difference I found between Murray and Djoker's hot run was Djoker started earlier, burned out late 07, then used the break well.

Murray started later, didn't burn out, and is on a hot run.

luckyboy1300
01-10-2009, 05:30 PM
That was his first slam final, nerves played a huge part in that loss. This guy seems to be playing at some other level at the moment so these nerves wont bother him this time (should he reach the final).

The way he treated a player of Roddick's caliber was very similar to how Fed used to play Roddick in his hey days. Thats GOAT stuff!

Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.

except that roddick is a far better player he was than he is now. he lacks the firepower of his strokes and has only retained his serve.

Morrissey
01-10-2009, 05:34 PM
except that roddick is a far better player he was than he is now. he lacks the firepower of his strokes and has only retained his serve.

I think he went for so much on his shots in the early years because he was so young and cocky. He was fearless and then he got older and started to play more consistent. It turned out to be the reason (outside of the serve) why he's still in the top ten all these years. The game he uses now is good enough to beat everyone below him in the rankings but not enough to hurt the guys above him, especially 1-4. He hasn't figured out how to bring back the old game against the top guys. Maybe he just can't anymore.

Morrissey
01-10-2009, 05:37 PM
Imagine what it would've been like if this forum existed in the '80s.

"Borg is done eh lost to Mac"
"No u he's still the GOAT"
"Im srs eh has retired lol"
"oic kk lol"

"have you seen this Becker kid? future GOAT"
"no wai dats gonna be Cash lol"

"dis Agassi kid dresses liek a gurl, lol at his huge racquet lol Sampras FTW"
"No wai Sampras is 2 hairee to be GOAT"

Or "that McEnroe kid ain't gonna amount to anything, he has no groundstrokes."

MichaelNadal
01-10-2009, 05:40 PM
Lol people have such SHORT TERM MEMORIES on here! I hate bandwagons!!

ESP#1
01-10-2009, 05:50 PM
Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.

We have that answer right now, there is no way he beats nadal on clay, thats just blasphemy, youre gettin way ahead of yourself when you say that.

JeMar
01-10-2009, 07:09 PM
Not if Nadal's healthy.

tacou
01-10-2009, 07:18 PM
this is way jumping the gun-- he hasn't even won a slam! and he has only made on final.

what if he never reaches another? or what if he loses a heart braker to some journeyman in the AO final and he just never recovers from it and by '10 is out of the top 100. people need to settle down and just enjoy Murray's game right now and see how his year goes.

remember, this is his first year as one of the top guys, let's see how he handles it.

Mansewerz
01-10-2009, 07:19 PM
this is way jumping the gun-- he hasn't even won a slam! and he has only made on final.

what if he never reaches another? or what if he loses a heart braker to some journeyman in the AO final and he just never recovers from it and by '10 is out of the top 100. people need to settle down and just enjoy Murray's game right now and see how his year goes.

remember, this is his first year as one of the top guys, let's see how he handles it.

It would be hilarious if Murray ends up being the next rios

DoubleDeuce
01-10-2009, 10:09 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/15/article-0-02CD0CF1000005DC-168_468x286.jpg

Jumping to conclusions

DoubleDeuce
01-10-2009, 10:10 PM
couldnt help it guys... but that's some serious ***** ^^^^

Greenfin Beta
01-10-2009, 11:20 PM
i am really quite impressed by murray's performance lately and believe that he will go far (top 3, even no.1) but until he has beaten real records (14 slams, anyone), you can't be talking GOAT already.

aphex
01-11-2009, 01:59 AM
absolutely not!
what you saw this week was murray's best, at his best surface...
still his best on hard is not enough to beat federer or nalbandian or safin at their best...
about other surfaces? forget it...

batz
01-11-2009, 04:12 AM
absolutely not!
what you saw this week was murray's best, at his best surface...
still his best on hard is not enough to beat federer or nalbandian or safin at their best...
about other surfaces? forget it...

So Murray won't improve? That's a pretty bold statement to make. He's on record this morning as saying he thinks it'll be another 12 months at least before we see his best tennis, not many peak at 21.

As to the poll, well I'm a big Murray fan (no kidding:)), but talk of GOATdom is way over the top. Let's see him get the slam monkey off his back, then, if he wins a few more slams on multiple surfaces, we can start to consider him as a potential GOAT candidate.

In any event, he'd have a long way to beat the real GOAT - his Rodness.

caulcano
01-11-2009, 04:29 AM
Murray doesn't have a one handed BH, so will never be GOAT.

edmondsm
01-11-2009, 04:45 AM
Murray doesn't have a one handed BH, so will never be GOAT.

Game, set, match.

Leublu tennis
01-11-2009, 04:50 AM
It's a matter of time before he starts dominating the complete tour. I'm sure most would agree that that he is the man to beat on the hard courts now The man for the moment. It goes from Federer, to Djokovic, to Tsonga, and now Murray? Maybe.

and will definitely win lots of slams on them. He may or may not. Hopefully for him he does not face Davydenko (4-3 wins, all wins on HC), Nadal (5-1 with 3 HC, 1 grass, 1 clay), Djokovic (4-2 with 3 HC, 1 clay), Robredo (2-0 on HC) or Tsonga (1-1 on HC).

I think the question is whether he can win the RG, which will be the big question in most people's mind. Not in my mind. The big question continues to be whether he can win a slam. Any slam.

(I wont be surprised if Murray is the man who ends up stopping Nadal's reign at RG). I sure would be.

maximo
01-11-2009, 05:08 AM
its not could be, but will be. :)

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 06:50 AM
absolutely not!
what you saw this week was murray's best, at his best surface...
still his best on hard is not enough to beat federer or nalbandian or safin at their best...
about other surfaces? forget it...
Murray has beaten Federer 5 times (and that's not even counting the exhibition last week). I think Murray has been showing recently that at his best he can beat anybody.

Morrissey
01-11-2009, 07:10 AM
Murray doesn't have a one handed BH, so will never be GOAT.

Right now that backhand is better than any one handed backhand in tennis.

Morrissey
01-11-2009, 07:17 AM
Not if Nadal's healthy.

I'm glad you said it, because if I did I would have been accused of Nadboy fanaticism, so either way thanks for saying it.
As for Murray, let's not jump the gun too quickly people. He's an upset or bad result away at the Aussie from being forgotten once again. If he were to get upset in the second round again by whoever it is you will all bring him down like a sack of potatoes. Remember that the next Grand Slam is 5 months after this one coming up and it definitely does not favor him. So realistically speaking you would have to wait until late June to bring his name up as a truly realistic threat to win a slam. So for Murray the Aussie Open is feast or famine time. If Nadal doesn't win this Slam coming up he still has the French and Wimby to contend in. So does Fed. The pressure is really on Murray now. Big time.

hoodjem
01-11-2009, 07:21 AM
One slam does not a GOAT make. Five slams does not a GOAT make.

7-8 now we're getting into the right territory.

Laver has 11, Tilden has 10, Borg 11, Sampras 14, Fed has 13. How many has Murray won?

It ain't about potential, or just about ability, it's about results.

Let's ask this question when Murray's career is over, and the complete proof is obvious and all the evidence is in.

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 07:30 AM
I'm glad you said it, because if I did I would have been accused of Nadboy fanaticism, so either way thanks for saying it.
As for Murray, let's not jump the gun too quickly people. He's an upset or bad result away at the Aussie from being forgotten once again. If he were to get upset in the second round again by whoever it is you will all bring him down like a sack of potatoes. Remember that the next Grand Slam is 5 months after this one coming up and it definitely does not favor him. So realistically speaking you would have to wait until late June to bring his name up as a truly realistic threat to win a slam. So for Murray the Aussie Open is feast or famine time. If Nadal doesn't win this Slam coming up he still has the French and Wimby to contend in. So does Fed. The pressure is really on Murray now. Big time.
I don't particularly want Murray to win the AO (I'd much rather see Nadal do something special as you know) but you seem to imply that if Murray doesn't win AO 2009, his game is gonna subsequently fall apart for several months. That sounds a little too dramatic to me. Murray is very young, he can continue improving and will have all his chances for years to come to win slams. It's for Federer that the clock is ticking, not Murray. Also Murray is physically stronger and much more confident than he was last year, all of that is not going to evaporate on the basis of one bad result (be it in a slam). Thirdly, I don't even know why we have to discuss this as I don't see Murray being beaten in the early rounds at AO this year, IMO it won't happen.

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 07:33 AM
One slam does not a GOAT make. Five slams does not a GOAT make.

7-8 now we're getting into the right territory.

Laver has 11, Tilden has 10, Borg 11, Sampras 14, Fed has 13. How many has Murray won?

It ain't about potential, or just about ability, it's about results.

Let's ask this question when Murray's career is over, and the complete proof is obvious and all the evidence is in.
I agree that the question is absurdly premature. Murray is 21 and just coming into his own. Vastly too early to envision what the situation will be in 10 years.

Morrissey
01-11-2009, 07:40 AM
I don't particularly want Murray to win the AO (I'd much rather see Nadal do something special as you know) but you seem to imply that if Murray doesn't win AO 2009, his game is gonna subsequently fall apart for several months. That sounds a little too dramatic to me. Murray is very young, he can continue improving and will have all his chances for years to come to win slams. It's for Federer that the clock is ticking, not Murray. Also Murray is physically stronger and much more confident than he was last year, all of that is not going to evaporate on the basis of one bad result (be it in a slam). Thirdly, I don't even know why we have to discuss this as I don't see Murray being beaten in the early rounds at AO this year, IMO it won't happen.

Actually I'm not suggesting that at all. But he can win all the events from post Aussie to Madrid in May. It still doesn't count as a slam. If he were to somehow get upset or have a bad day against a hot opponent like last year, all this talk about him right now will be somewhat unjustified. You know what I mean? "Oh Murray is gonna overtake Fed and Nadal, next #1, etc..." I have a long term memory and I recall the EXACT same words being said in here just replaced with a "Joker" instead of Murray and we all saw how quickly things changed. Murray is the hot player now, what happens when he's not so hot? How will he react? We haven't seen it happen yet since he got going last summer in Cincy & Toronto. He's been on an upward climb since then but if he loses the Aussie will be considered the best player outside of Grand Slams of the last 6-8 months and that will not be good enough for many people in here. As much as he can improve from now, he still ain't anywhere near good enough to beat Nadal on clay and especially at the French Open. So that's why I said that his next realistic chance would be at Wimbledon in late June. This Aussie Open will answer alot of questions for Murray and from us.

thalivest
01-11-2009, 07:47 AM
One slam does not a GOAT make. Five slams does not a GOAT make.

7-8 now we're getting into the right territory.

Laver has 11, Tilden has 10, Borg 11, Sampras 14, Fed has 13. How many has Murray won?

It ain't about potential, or just about ability, it's about results.

Let's ask this question when Murray's career is over, and the complete proof is obvious and all the evidence is in.

TW is getting even sillier and sillier with this GOAT nonsense, alot from people who probably never even watched tennis or know anything about tennis before 2006. It will get someone wins their first Masters title and they are the new GOAT or GOAT in the making.

Leublu tennis
01-11-2009, 07:58 AM
http://xrl.us/beb7ge

This is gross and does not belong on this thread. Find yourself some other venue for this kind of a display, please.

DoubleDeuce
01-11-2009, 08:48 AM
Hey.. you just made one of your own^^^^

tacou
01-11-2009, 09:36 AM
proof of how dumb this thread is; check out the poll. the options are all the same!

I think he's got the whole package, but he hasn't one a slam yet, so let's give him some time!

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 01:02 PM
Actually I'm not suggesting that at all. But he can win all the events from post Aussie to Madrid in May. It still doesn't count as a slam. If he were to somehow get upset or have a bad day against a hot opponent like last year, all this talk about him right now will be somewhat unjustified. You know what I mean? "Oh Murray is gonna overtake Fed and Nadal, next #1, etc..." I have a long term memory and I recall the EXACT same words being said in here just replaced with a "Joker" instead of Murray and we all saw how quickly things changed. Murray is the hot player now, what happens when he's not so hot? How will he react? We haven't seen it happen yet since he got going last summer in Cincy & Toronto. He's been on an upward climb since then but if he loses the Aussie will be considered the best player outside of Grand Slams of the last 6-8 months and that will not be good enough for many people in here. As much as he can improve from now, he still ain't anywhere near good enough to beat Nadal on clay and especially at the French Open. So that's why I said that his next realistic chance would be at Wimbledon in late June. This Aussie Open will answer alot of questions for Murray and from us.
Do you think people were wrong about Joker then? I think in the next few years Murray and Djoko (along with Nadal of course) will be the main force in tennis. I think all of them are gonna stay at the top for some time. By contrast players like Tsonga, Monfils, Gasquet, Simon often seem hyped on this board and yet their potential is much more debatable than Murray's.

SikSerb
01-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Not Murray.

norbac
01-11-2009, 02:32 PM
I've been a Murray fan for a long time now, and he's my favorite player but I don't think he'll completely dominate the tour for enough time to name him GOAT. Plus I don't think he'll ever get the career Slam, French Open doesn't seem possible at the moment. And I don't think he'll break the record for most Slam titles.

It'd be awesome if he did though, lol.

bladepdb
01-11-2009, 02:36 PM
Gulbis could be the next GOAT.
Nishikiori could be the next GOAT.
del Potro could be the next GOAT.

These players all have potential to be GOAT, just like Murray. How many of them will be GOAT?

As of right now we're only looking at players' "potential" and if that's the case, so many players have "potential" at the moment. Let's see them distinguish themselves and stand out like Sampras did, or Agassi, Federer, Nadal, etc. Then I'll start casting votes for GOAT.

nevisben
01-11-2009, 03:08 PM
I'm a big fan of Murray and have to say threads like this are very annoying, is it a wind up? It would be more sensible to ask if he will win multiple slams or even one slam.

The probabilty of him becoming a 'great' player with multiple slams (let's say >4) is less than 50% IMO nevermind him becoming the GOAT!

No one will be happier than me if he does but this is beyond silly - maybe I shouldn't rise to the bait.

Q. Will Camilo Villegas be the best golfer in history?
A. No one knows

Morrissey
01-11-2009, 03:45 PM
Do you think people were wrong about Joker then? I think in the next few years Murray and Djoko (along with Nadal of course) will be the main force in tennis. I think all of them are gonna stay at the top for some time. By contrast players like Tsonga, Monfils, Gasquet, Simon often seem hyped on this board and yet their potential is much more debatable than Murray's.

So far I think so. Joker right now is looking his weakest since late 2006. How many people were thinking the same thing about Safin in September of 2000? It's easy to think these guys can keep it up but there's a reason why only Nadal and Fed have been the multiple slam winners since 2005. Nadal and Fed are not going to lose their 1 and 2 rankings anytime soon. For all the decline we talk about Fed he still goes far in slams, enough to keep his ranking up there and to remain a contender. Joker has not proven that he can handle the pressure of being a top dog and sustain a high level of play for a long period of time. We don't know if Murray will hit a wall like Joker did since Indian Wells. Some people just can't sustain it. It's one thing to get up there with the big boys, it's another thing to stay up there with them. I like Murray and his cerebral game, I even root for him when he plays anyone not named Nadal. But I won't get ahead of myself. I've seen so much tennis over the years and seen alot of promising players underperform.

veroniquem
01-11-2009, 04:59 PM
So far I think so. Joker right now is looking his weakest since late 2006. How many people were thinking the same thing about Safin in September of 2000? It's easy to think these guys can keep it up but there's a reason why only Nadal and Fed have been the multiple slam winners since 2005. Nadal and Fed are not going to lose their 1 and 2 rankings anytime soon. For all the decline we talk about Fed he still goes far in slams, enough to keep his ranking up there and to remain a contender. Joker has not proven that he can handle the pressure of being a top dog and sustain a high level of play for a long period of time. We don't know if Murray will hit a wall like Joker did since Indian Wells. Some people just can't sustain it. It's one thing to get up there with the big boys, it's another thing to stay up there with them. I like Murray and his cerebral game, I even root for him when he plays anyone not named Nadal. But I won't get ahead of myself. I've seen so much tennis over the years and seen alot of promising players underperform.
Djoko's form is not that bad, he was still in the Cincy final, got the bronze in Olympics, was in USO and FO semi (there's no shame in losing to Nadal on clay and Fed on hard) and won the Master Cup (all this after winning AO and Indian Wells to start the year). I'm not saying he will ever be as dominant as Fed or Nadal on their respective best surface but he is still #3 and actually very close to becoming #2 and he has posted regular high results for a while now even on clay (let's not forget he also won Rome this year). IMO we already know for a fact that Djoko is NOT a flash in the pan a la Safin. Murray has more to confirm, it's true, I just hope he will because I enjoy his playing style a lot and I think he has outstanding abilities (way more than I've ever seen in Safin, apologies to his numerous fans- more versatility and more court intelligence)

Lendl and Federer Fan
01-11-2009, 05:26 PM
I don't see how Murray would be able to win more than 6 or 7 GS, so he could not possibly be the next GOAT. After Federer, I don't see another GOAT candidate for a long time.

yemenmocha
01-11-2009, 09:49 PM
Easily the next GOAT...

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/andy-murray-4.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1390/872178958_3b15107b31.jpg?v=0

abmk
01-19-2009, 09:27 PM
^

Rotfl :)

NamRanger
01-19-2009, 09:39 PM
Why not? He's already the best slamless GOAT player. All this bandwagon hopping is funny. Last January Joker was going to leapfrog Nadal to #1 and he would stay #2. How funny it turned out in the end huh? Now Joker is not even mentioned in this forum anymore except for Pro Racquets & Gear section with pics of his new Head stick.



Actually I think Nalbandian still firmly holds an edge over Murray, especially since Nalbandian has reached the semis of all 4 slams, is a consistent threat on pretty much everything with the exception of grass (even then, he can still play on it fairly well), and has dominating wins over the top 4 (ok, maybe not dominating, but very sound wins).



Nalbandian H2H vs Top 4

vs Nadal, 2-0
vs Djokovic 1-2 (Although 1 loss was due to injury, and he just played it out)
vs Federer 8-10
vs Andy Murray 2-0


I don't think anyone has a much better record than that against the top 4.

NamRanger
01-19-2009, 09:42 PM
Djoko's form is not that bad, he was still in the Cincy final, got the bronze in Olympics, was in USO and FO semi (there's no shame in losing to Nadal on clay and Fed on hard) and won the Master Cup (all this after winning AO and Indian Wells to start the year). I'm not saying he will ever be as dominant as Fed or Nadal on their respective best surface but he is still #3 and actually very close to becoming #2 and he has posted regular high results for a while now even on clay (let's not forget he also won Rome this year). IMO we already know for a fact that Djoko is NOT a flash in the pan a la Safin. Murray has more to confirm, it's true, I just hope he will because I enjoy his playing style a lot and I think he has outstanding abilities (way more than I've ever seen in Safin, apologies to his numerous fans- more versatility and more court intelligence)


Safin got hit by injuries, which is what caused his career to down spiral for a few years. Djokovic is probably far less of an athlete than Safin is, and is probably more prone to injuries.

jamesblakefan#1
01-19-2009, 09:43 PM
But how can he be the GOAT if Ernests Gulbis is winning 5 slams a year? HUH?

NamRanger
01-19-2009, 09:45 PM
But how can he be the GOAT if Ernests Gulbis is winning 5 slams a year? HUH?

lol, Ernest Gulbis. The man that accomplishes impossible feats, such as winning 5 slams a year, hitting 400 mph forehands, and bending reality with his mind. I love it.

babbette
01-20-2009, 01:25 AM
Nah there's no way. He just doesn't have the greatness aura. He's just having a great run. It will be over soon.:)

War, Safin!
01-20-2009, 01:30 AM
I can see Murray bagging a slam-a-year or the next 7-8 years if he keeps fit and plays like he's doing now.
But we all know that takes a special player to do that and keep that consistency.
Depends whether he wants it mentally...

Spider
02-18-2009, 06:42 AM
Well it looks like Murray is a lot underrated in these forums. He just won Rotterdam fairly comfortably (his second title this year), looks like an odds on favorite to win Dubai, and the hard court events at Indian Wells and Miami. Still think he isn't destined for greatness?

We shouldn't look too closely at his AO result, he ran into a red hot Verdasco who almost beat the eventual champion Nadal (also there were reports that he was really very sick in his match against Verdasco, but I don't want to make excuses now).

Has your thoughts on Murray changed atleast now?

maximo
02-18-2009, 06:46 AM
He's favorite to win the USO imo.

Spider
02-18-2009, 06:50 AM
He's favorite to win the USO imo.

Lets not forget, that although he lost to Nadal in straights at Wimbledon, he had a marathon match against Gasquet the previous round and that took its toll on him, and as a result he wan't 100% in his match against Nadal.

So I think he is the favorite at both Wimbledon (along with Nadal) and US open this year.

zagor
02-18-2009, 06:54 AM
Well it looks like Murray is a lot underrated in these forums. He just won Rotterdam fairly comfortably (his second title this year), looks like an odds on favorite to win Dubai, and the hard court events at Indian Wells and Miami. Still think he isn't destined for greatness?

We shouldn't look too closely at his AO result, he ran into a red hot Verdasco who almost beat the eventual champion Nadal (also there were reports that he was really very sick in his match against Verdasco, but I don't want to make excuses now).

Has your thoughts on Murray changed atleast now?

My thoughts haven't change on Murray not being the next GOAT but I do think he has all the potential to be a multu slam winner in the future,he's one of the main favourites for USO this year IMO.

maximo
02-18-2009, 06:55 AM
If murray won wimby it would be huge achievement

maximo
02-18-2009, 07:00 AM
No one speaks about djokovic's chances of another slam, maybe because he's a one trick pony?

oy vey
02-18-2009, 07:00 AM
I don't think so. He may win a few but he won't be the goat.

Spider
02-18-2009, 07:01 AM
My thoughts haven't change on Murray not being the next GOAT but I do think he has all the potential to be a multu slam winner in the future,he's one of the main favourites for USO this year IMO.

5-2 head to head record against the top two players is not something many players can boast about.

Also, he seems to be moving effortlessly on the courts, which I think will help in his longetivity in this sport. His game doesn't have any noticealbe weakness. You're right, he'll be a multiple slam winner for sure. I look forward to seeing his game develop over the next 5 or more years :)

GameSampras
02-18-2009, 07:01 AM
I always said if he continues to improve and finally performs up to par where it matters (the slams) he could very well be the best player of his era. So far he hasnt done that. But hes got Nadal's number eventually and I would assume Murray takes over the reigns when Nadal loses one of his legs and is wearing a prosthetic. He obviously can handle Nadal on HC's no prob. Now he just has to turn it up on grass and clay. nadal was very fortunate to play a verdasco and not Murray IMO at the AO.

Gorecki
02-18-2009, 07:02 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2840068019_c5d8c375fa.jpg

the next goat?

Spider
02-18-2009, 07:08 AM
I always said if he continues to improve and finally performs up to par where it matters (the slams) he could very well be the best player of his era. So far he hasnt done that. But hes got Nadal's number eventually and I would assume Murray takes over the reigns when Nadal loses one of his legs and is wearing a prosthetic. He obviously can handle Nadal on HC's no prob. Now he just has to turn it up on grass and clay. nadal was very fortunate to play a verdasco and not Murray IMO at the AO.

I agree. He has been unfortunate at both the US open (scheduling) and at the AO open (sickness), so let's not judge him on the basis of that.

I won't be surprised if he wins a slam (or two) this year. :)

egn
02-18-2009, 07:14 AM
Well it looks like Murray is a lot underrated in these forums. He just won Rotterdam fairly comfortably (his second title this year), looks like an odds on favorite to win Dubai, and the hard court events at Indian Wells and Miami. Still think he isn't destined for greatness?

We shouldn't look too closely at his AO result, he ran into a red hot Verdasco who almost beat the eventual champion Nadal (also there were reports that he was really very sick in his match against Verdasco, but I don't want to make excuses now).

Has your thoughts on Murray changed atleast now?

Okay so a 3 set hard court victory match over Rafael Nadal should make me think he is suddenly better than he was than at his last 3 set hard court victory over Nadal. Maybe Murray just has Nadal's number now? This makes him no better. Okay he is favored to win Dubai...that's nice...let him win it first. Never said he wasn't destined for greatness not too many people have said he isn't most say he is not going to be GOAT.

We shouldn't look closely at his AO result please explain to me why. You want too take that Rotterdam win and look at it but not his AO loss...so what are we looking at small wins and big losses. He lost to Verdasco who almost beat the champion Nadal. Ooh...Del Potro lost to Federer who almost beat Nadal same goes for Roddick and a bunch more guys lost to Verdasco or Fed. Berdych was really close to beating Fed and blew it yet nobody goes well Berdych almost beat Fed who almost beat Nadal to make it sound better. Murray blew his match he was up two sets to one..he lost..nothing more to it.

Lets not forget, that although he lost to Nadal in straights at Wimbledon, he had a marathon match against Gasquet the previous round and that took its toll on him, and as a result he wasn't 100% in his match against Nadal.

So I think he is the favorite at both Wimbledon (along with Nadal) and US open this year.

That's amazing a man who got straight-setted in the quarterfinals, has never won a tournament on grass is favorite to win a grass court tournament over guys like oh Federer 5 time champion? US Open maybe...but wimbledon no.

GameSampras
02-18-2009, 07:19 AM
Well Murray tallywhacked Nadal at the USO. So its not like Murray cannot defeat Nadal in the best of 5 sets. The Murray Nadal was beating before consistently, is not the same Murray we saw the end of last year carried over into this year. Murray has gotten better, more focused, and more in shape.


Grass and clay is a still a big question mark though. I like his chances of improving on these surfaces. The game and courts are not so polarized today. Much more homogenized so thats make being successful on multi surfaces much more easier than before. Its not like Murray is going to have to deal with Talented Serve-volley attackers at wimbeldon.

Spider
02-18-2009, 07:22 AM
Okay so a 3 set hard court victory match over Rafael Nadal should make me think he is suddenly better than he was than at his last 3 set hard court victory over Nadal. Maybe Murray just has Nadal's number now? This makes him no better. Okay he is favored to win Dubai...that's nice...let him win it first. Never said he wasn't destined for greatness not too many people have said he isn't most say he is not going to be GOAT.

We shouldn't look closely at his AO result please explain to me why. You want too take that Rotterdam win and look at it but not his AO loss...so what are we looking at small wins and big losses. He lost to Verdasco who almost beat the champion Nadal. Ooh...Del Potro lost to Federer who almost beat Nadal same goes for Roddick and a bunch more guys lost to Verdasco or Fed. Berdych was really close to beating Fed and blew it yet nobody goes well Berdych almost beat Fed who almost beat Nadal to make it sound better. Murray blew his match he was up two sets to one..he lost..nothing more to it.



That's amazing a man who got straight-setted in the quarterfinals, has never won a tournament on grass is favorite to win a grass court tournament over guys like oh Federer 5 time champion? US Open maybe...but wimbledon no.

Yes, Murray doesn't have the slam results to back my claim but then again there is always the first time, right? I mean, Nadal handn't won a slam but was the clear favorite heading into RG 05? and look at his results now, he has won 28 straight matches there. so why can't Murray be the clear favorite if he is almost unbeatable in these smaller hard court events?

thalivest
02-18-2009, 07:29 AM
What a ridiculous thread and poll. I cant believe I stooped down to voting on it. I really need my coffee soon. Oh I voted the last option of course, Murray will NEVER be the GOAT, not in a million years.

Sentinel
02-18-2009, 07:36 AM
OMG ! Wimbledon is changing surface to hay !
This will be Federer's - mark my words.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2840068019_c5d8c375fa.jpg

the next goat?

shazbot
02-18-2009, 07:38 AM
Preposterous. I beat my buddy in a ping pong match, first to 11, best of 5 set, 3-0 mind you.

I'm obviously the next GOAT.

tintin
02-18-2009, 08:12 AM
this idiot has yet to win outside of hard courts.He's turning out to be nothing but a hard court specialists just like James Blake:roll:
give me a bloodybreak:roll:
wtf has he won on grass or clay;that's right.Not a damn thing!:roll: :lol:

ksbh
02-18-2009, 08:17 AM
TINTIN! Didn't they say the same thing about Rafa as well? Only it was clay instead of hard courts.

Whilst I agree that this thread is very premature considering that Murray hasn't even won a slam, I'd like you to note that he's in the very early stages of his career but is already showing great promise. Let's give him a year or three before we judge!

In the meantime, take this thread in a lighter vein! :)

this idiot has yet to win outside of hard courts.He's turning out to be nothing but a hard court specialists just like James Blake:roll:
give me a bloodybreak:roll:
wtf has he won on grass or clay;that's right.Not a damn thing! :lol:

veroniquem
02-18-2009, 08:21 AM
First of all no need to insult Murray because someone started a silly thread about him. Murray is a great player on hard court, I've always enjoyed watching him but of course he's not in any GOAT debate unless he wins several slams on several surfaces, is he?

icedevil0289
02-18-2009, 08:35 AM
there's an ongoing debate about whether federer is the goat with all that he as achieved and already people are claiming murray could be the next goat without even winning a slam.

maximo
02-18-2009, 08:44 AM
Murray is being underestamated here, he has beaten the top 2 players in the world, nadal and federer on multiple occasions. Even Djokovic hasn't been able to achieve this and he's got a slam under his belt.

Giggs The Red Devil
02-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Scotsmen can't play tennis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVbb6pZLfzU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPd9pVUwPYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIogyKZ0b6k

batz
02-18-2009, 09:19 AM
Even as a major Murray fan I voted that he should win his first slam before any GOAT talk. Had there been a 'he should win 10 slams before talk of being GOAT' i'd have voted for that.

All of that said, I really don't get the perceived weakness of Murray's grass game. He may not have won a tournament yet on grass, but it's his best surface in terms of win/loss ratio and he's improved each time he's played at Wimbledon.

egn
02-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes, Murray doesn't have the slam results to back my claim but then again there is always the first time, right? I mean, Nadal handn't won a slam but was the clear favorite heading into RG 05? and look at his results now, he has won 28 straight matches there. so why can't Murray be the clear favorite if he is almost unbeatable in these smaller hard court events?

Nadal is an exception and the next hardcourt slam is the US Open..let time come around. He was favored I thought to win the AO and he failed there..lets see if he wins both summer hardcourt master series going into the US Open I will surely go and be like Murray is a good choice, but it was different. Nadal had won something like 6 or 7 clay court titles leading up to the French Open and was playing outstanding clay court tennis he only lost 2 games on the surface all year..Nadal was 50-2 on clay that year I do not see Murray duplicating or coming close to that record on hard courts this year.

Spider
02-22-2009, 06:03 AM
Nadal is an exception and the next hardcourt slam is the US Open..let time come around. He was favored I thought to win the AO and he failed there..lets see if he wins both summer hardcourt master series going into the US Open I will surely go and be like Murray is a good choice, but it was different. Nadal had won something like 6 or 7 clay court titles leading up to the French Open and was playing outstanding clay court tennis he only lost 2 games on the surface all year..Nadal was 50-2 on clay that year I do not see Murray duplicating or coming close to that record on hard courts this year.

Thats right. But we need to consider the conditions under which he was playing the match he lost at the AO. He not only played Verdasco, who was playing the tournament of his life, but also was really very sick coming into that match. So although, he couldn't win that slam, we shouldn't look too much into that defeat either (it took 5 sets for Verdasco to beat a very sick Murray).

I agree, perhaps Nadal was a few levels higher (when he started his clay domination in 2005) as compared to Murray but by winning Doha and Rotterdam, he definitely has made a statement that he is the player to beat at the moment on the hard courts. And I believe, it is a matter of time before he does that at the slam as well.

GameSampras
02-22-2009, 06:47 AM
He has the talent to be the best player of his era. I dunno if he does of all time. His grass and clay game leave much to be desired but he can developed his game on these surfaces.

I have no doubt in my mind that he will win a few HC slams though in time

ckthegreek
02-22-2009, 06:54 AM
No. Murray may win a slam or two but not too many. Fitness is still an issue and he won't be able to play and win two 5-setters in a row - on current evidence at least.

Spider
03-21-2009, 02:24 PM
He is clearly on his way to being one of the GOAT, fed wont be ever beating him again.

I wont be surprised to see Murray win two slams this year, this kid is just so unbelieveably talented. The best thing about Murray is along with his talent, he is also mentally one of the toughest players in the history of this sport. :)

BlahDow
03-21-2009, 03:17 PM
Maybe not GOAT..but IMO Murray will be to Nadal..what Nadal is to Federer ;o

GameSampras
03-21-2009, 03:18 PM
If Murray becomes a major player on clay and grass, LOOK OUT

Spider
04-10-2009, 07:59 AM
This clay court season should give us a more clear picture of how much Murray has improved over the period of the last one year. I expect him to reach the final of all the MS events (if he avoids Nadal).

I would love to see Murray - Nadal RG final (because Fed won't be winning more than 4 games against Nadal at RG anymore). Murray-Nadal should be a lot better match. :)

vtmike
04-10-2009, 08:02 AM
http://www.indiana.edu/~aviary/images/Rats-at-bowl-only.jpg

cknobman
04-10-2009, 09:08 AM
Holy Shizat 11 people chose agree?????!!!!!!

LOL 11 confirmed morons on this board then.

I know, lets just pick any tom dick and harry that hasnt won a grandslam and call them a future GOAT.

Bud
04-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Murray could be the next GOAT

Lets see, he is a complete package at the moment with no weakness at all - great first serve, consistent forehand, excellent double handed backhand (with one of the best slices in the game), fantastic mover on the court, has tremendous feel at the net, and has bulked up a lot in the off season.

It's a matter of time before he starts dominating the complete tour. I'm sure most would agree that that he is the man to beat on the hard courts now and will definitely win lots of slams on them. Wimbledon will be something he should win (multiple times as well) because I don't see a reason why his game can't translate into grass with his variety.

I think the question is whether he can win the RG, which will be the big question in most people's mind. I would love to see Murray - Nadal face off at the clay events this year to see where exactly is Murray on clay (I wont be surprised if Murray is the man who ends up stopping Nadal's reign at RG). It's exciting times ahead for this extremely talented player, and I would feel honoured to watch his career grow over the years. :)

He has at least one glaring weakness. He loses focus very easily and basically gives his opponent a free set. That's a mental weakness which is the most difficult type to correct.

Bud
04-10-2009, 09:41 AM
http://www3.rogerscup.com/men/english/_data/images/AndyMurray1.jpg NEXT to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00670/goat-underpants_670586n.jpg

Lol! Funny :)

danb
04-10-2009, 09:56 AM
His forehand is just OK - please notice he actually scoops it (JMac's words).
He does too much running (not aggressive enough) which is Nadal like BUT unlike Nadal he is not that tough mentally.
On clay he hasn't shown much.
Let's see him in a few close matches - will he auto-destroy like before?
First he needs to win 2-3 slams then we can talk again about the GOAT stuff.

deltox
04-10-2009, 09:57 AM
It's scary to think how much he has improved over the last 6 months or so and continues to improve at an alarming rate, so I wouldn't rule that out either.

On the hard courts I don't think there are many players that could trouble this Murray. He seems to be in his own league at the moment.

ok, what people seem to forget is that it takes only half a calendar year for someone to go from top 10-15 to top 5 with a good streak.

every past and the present #1 made a huge run in a 6 month period of their career.

IMO, if you wanna see the next top player to make #1 after Rafa has faded (which i think will be in another full year or possibly two) you should check the top 50 players under the age of 21 and start watching them.,

right now, for example, im watching Monfils(since early last year), Isner since late last year and a few others who arent doing much yet.

To much emphasis is given to many past champions and right now Nadal has a ton of extra on him. Murray will undoubtebly win a slam in the next 2 years but i cannot see him going much further before he to starts to fade.

I cannot see a GOAT coming from this generation unless Fed can peice together a GLORIOUS 2nd half of this season. Nadal, although spoken in the same sentence, is visibly wearing himself down and if something doesnt give he wont be able to maintain this high level of athletisism thru many more seasons.

of course, this is my opinion, and no matter who is #1 at the time, i will always look to the lower seeds to find my next favorite player to pull for.

deltox
04-10-2009, 09:59 AM
He has at least one glaring weakness. He loses focus very easily and basically gives his opponent a free set. That's a mental weakness which is the most difficult type to correct.

the same was said about Nadal 2 several years ago, with his one blaring weakness being his first serve. true champions overcome their weakness, only time will tell though.

veroniquem
04-10-2009, 11:34 AM
That was his first slam final, nerves played a huge part in that loss. This guy seems to be playing at some other level at the moment so these nerves wont bother him this time (should he reach the final).

The way he treated a player of Roddick's caliber was very similar to how Fed used to play Roddick in his hey days. Thats GOAT stuff!

Can he beat Nadal on clay? We might get that answer this clay season, and I can't wait for it.
I must be hallucinating really, "seems to be playing at some other level"!!!! Are we talking about the guy who recently lost a master final on the score of 1-6, 2-6 and couldn't even beat Nadal in straight sets in a final on very fast hard court where Nadal was injured?? Can you imagine what it's gonna be like on clay?? Are we talking about the guy who lost in the first round of the Olympics last year on what is supposed to be his best surface??? Or the guy who couldn't win the Master Cup even though he managed to eliminate Federer there? Are we talking about the guy who hasn't won a single slam yet and lost in the 4th round of the last slam he played?? And has only been in 1 SLAM SEMI since the beginning of his career?? (If my memory is correct). THAT guy? That guy is gonna go straight from #4 in the world and best achievements being 3 master shields at the age of 22 (he's gonna turn 22 in May) to being THE GOAT??? Please don't force me to think of you as a raving lunatic, that hurts...

Nadalfan89
04-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Grand Slams won by Murray: 0

Last time he played Nadal -the clay court specialist- on a HC: Murray lost 1-6,2-6

Amount of fans he has regardless of his stats: 10,000,000

Pirao
04-10-2009, 11:51 AM
How many finals will Murray reach on clay curts? I hope not too many, for his own good, or his H2H vs Nadal is going to drop dramatically.

DarthMaul
04-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Have him won more than 10 slams THEN reopen this thread, ok?

Leublu tennis
04-10-2009, 01:29 PM
LOL...not being funny but I couldn't disagree more.

Have you not been watching his 2nd serve? What about when he was self destructing in so many matches not even 6 months ago, I think when the pressure is on he this behaviour will show it's ugly head again.

How many great players have we seen that have come and gone and not been able to win a slam? Nalbandian anyone??

Look at Safin people thought once he had won the USO (notice that he had actually won a slam) people thought he would change and dominate the game. He didn't for many reasons...........

His game will not touch Nadal on clay...or he would have shown more promise on clay before he has always played well on HC but never really showed up on clay at all!

Plus we have yet to see who is a bad match up for Murray and can consistantly cause him problems....Murray is getting so much hype. I can hardly wait for him to start to fade and go away.

egn
04-10-2009, 01:41 PM
Murray is getting so much hype. I can hardly wait for him to start to fade and go away.

amen. I liked him so much before his hype. Gosh then I just wanted him to just go away. I would hate to see him fail, but I can't wait till his hype is over it is so obnoxious. Murray is GOAT...Murray is better than everyone from the past 7 years except Fed and Nadal..gosh hype is annoying. I am waiting for Murray's real results and defending the honor of the players that the Murray hype has trashed.

egn
04-10-2009, 01:42 PM
ok, what people seem to forget is that it takes only half a calendar year for someone to go from top 10-15 to top 5 with a good streak.

every past and the present #1 made a huge run in a 6 month period of their career.

IMO, if you wanna see the next top player to make #1 after Rafa has faded (which i think will be in another full year or possibly two) you should check the top 50 players under the age of 21 and start watching them.,

right now, for example, im watching Monfils(since early last year), Isner since late last year and a few others who arent doing much yet.

To much emphasis is given to many past champions and right now Nadal has a ton of extra on him. Murray will undoubtebly win a slam in the next 2 years but i cannot see him going much further before he to starts to fade.

I cannot see a GOAT coming from this generation unless Fed can peice together a GLORIOUS 2nd half of this season. Nadal, although spoken in the same sentence, is visibly wearing himself down and if something doesnt give he wont be able to maintain this high level of athletisism thru many more seasons.

of course, this is my opinion, and no matter who is #1 at the time, i will always look to the lower seeds to find my next favorite player to pull for.

MONFILS <3 That forehand power is beautiful. Oh and your post has great points, climbing the rankings is easy, staying there not so easy.

batz
04-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Murray is getting so much hype. I can hardly wait for him to start to fade and go away.

OK. I can get why the hype is annoying. But what I don't get is why the focus of the annoyance is Murray himself. He doesn't ask for it. Why not wish for stupid people to stop the daft hype (like this thread) rather than wishing the guy to fail?

Lotto
04-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Lets wait until he wins his first grand slam bud. k?

35ft6
04-10-2009, 02:12 PM
He will be the Wilander of this generation. A great, but not an all-timer. He will win several Slams, be number 1 at one point, and frustrate people with his superior brain, variety, and point construction.

I've noticed complaints about modern tennis being one-dimensional and boring has kind of calmed down recently. Lots of two-handed backhands in the top 10, but overall we've got a nice mix.

Clydey2times
04-10-2009, 03:06 PM
I must be hallucinating really, "seems to be playing at some other level"!!!! Are we talking about the guy who recently lost a master final on the score of 1-6, 2-6 and couldn't even beat Nadal in straight sets in a final on very fast hard court where Nadal was injured?? Can you imagine what it's gonna be like on clay?? Are we talking about the guy who lost in the first round of the Olympics last year on what is supposed to be his best surface??? Or the guy who couldn't win the Master Cup even though he managed to eliminate Federer there? Are we talking about the guy who hasn't won a single slam yet and lost in the 4th round of the last slam he played?? And has only been in 1 SLAM SEMI since the beginning of his career?? (If my memory is correct). THAT guy? That guy is gonna go straight from #4 in the world and best achievements being 3 master shields at the age of 22 (he's gonna turn 22 in May) to being THE GOAT??? Please don't force me to think of you as a raving lunatic, that hurts...

I like how you actually think that MS final with Nadal was relevant to future matchups. You haven't been making much sense recently. You distort facts incessantly.

Murray was ill at the AO. You keep leaving out that fact. If you think Nadal would have hammered Murray 6-1, 6-2 without the wind, you need help. And the reason Murray didn't beat Nadal in straight sets in Rotterdam is because, well, it's tough to play against an injured player. Especially when that player is going for broke and going for winners constantly.

You do realise that Nadal wasn't injured in the first set of that match, right? Who won the set? Murray. He also bagelled Nadal. So what if Murray was put off by the injury in the second set and lost because Nadal was going for broke? He steadied the ship and hammered him 6-0.

You used to be a pretty balanced poster, but you've gone off the deep end recently.

Clydey2times
04-10-2009, 03:07 PM
amen. I liked him so much before his hype. Gosh then I just wanted him to just go away. I would hate to see him fail, but I can't wait till his hype is over it is so obnoxious. Murray is GOAT...Murray is better than everyone from the past 7 years except Fed and Nadal..gosh hype is annoying. I am waiting for Murray's real results and defending the honor of the players that the Murray hype has trashed.

So you're blaming Murray and hating on him because of hype that he can't control? Nice logic.

egn
04-10-2009, 03:10 PM
So you're blaming Murray and hating on him because of hype that he can't control? Nice logic.

Not hating Murray, hating his hype. His hype has made me want him to go away because I am sick of the nearly 24/7 Murrayfest the hype is creating. The fact that Murray has been talked about more recently than Nadal is absurd as Nadal is currently the top dog. I am not blaming or hating Murray, but I am annoyed greatly by the hype that trails around him.

veroniquem
04-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Maybe not GOAT..but IMO Murray will be to Nadal..what Nadal is to Federer ;o
Sure! Please show me when Federer led 6-2 in his head to head with Rafa, I'm really curious to know...

Leublu tennis
04-10-2009, 03:28 PM
OK. I can get why the hype is annoying. But what I don't get is why the focus of the annoyance is Murray himself. He doesn't ask for it. Why not wish for stupid people to stop the daft hype (like this thread) rather than wishing the guy to fail?You are right. Unfortunately the hype will stop only the moment Murray is no longer flying high, as he has been recently. Then a new face will show up. Fickle fans.

Leublu tennis
04-10-2009, 03:34 PM
I agree....Murray has shown nothing on clay has he even reached a QF of MS on clay.....??


Last year didn't get beyond R16. This year should do better as he is ranked higher and will have better seeding where he will play qualifiers and lower ranked players.

miyagi
04-10-2009, 03:41 PM
Lets put is like this Rafa should not be considered as the next GOAT and he is light years ahead of Murray.

The only one at this point who is looking remotely like a GOAT contender is Fed and even that is looking more and more unlikely!

Leublu tennis
04-10-2009, 03:47 PM
What a ridiculous thread and poll. I cant believe I stooped down to voting on it. I really need my coffee soon. Oh I voted the last option of course, Murray will NEVER be the GOAT, not in a million years.I didn't vote because there was no choice like "never".